Guild Wars 2

OK I bought the heavy flamekissed armor thinking it looked pretty good and thinking it was like the wardrobe type item but once bought I still have to spent transmute items to alter gear appearance so basically the $10 cosmetic double charges you (or more so) since you have to transmute every time of armor every time you change gear

I think it should be more of a permanent unlocked item that you can alter in game for free since it would cost you $30 for all items ..

as it is a feel very ripped of and saddened by this purchase ..

I apologize for complaining about what is most likely an old issue BUT as someone who is unafraid to BUY things from the game and I just returned I think I should mention it again as it might be something that drives players away..

sure i have lots of unused transmute tokens built up BUT the double cost is still ridiculous

You can apply the skin for free once. Once you get your product mailed to you it will contain 6 “loose skins” to apply without any charge cost. But yes, if you want to apply the skin after that use to a new piece it will cost you a charge. Charges are really easy to get in PvP or when completing maps, so no need to buy them from the Gem Store.

You may be more interested in outfits, they are “overlays” over your armor but never cost any charges. They go into their own outfit slot and you can switch on and off the outfit whenever you like to see your armor. Downside of outfits is that they’re 1 piece, so no mixing and matching and they only have 4 dye slots for the whole outfit.

Melanie.1240:

Charges are really easy to get in PvP or when completing maps, so no need to buy them from the Gem Store.

You also get them from one of the login chests.

When you buy the armor skin, you get a FREE application (the skins themselves). Those also unlock the Wardrobe skins so you can apply them later (for charges).

This is how armor skins purchased in the Gem store have worked since Wardrobe release. Pretty sure the descritpion in the gem store is VERY explicit that this is the case (it does NOT imply you get infinite FREE applications of the skin).

Keep in mind that prior to Wardrobe, you got to transmute the skin ONE time….PERIOD. No chance to ever apply it again (short of buying it again).

Wardrobe system is improved over that method 100%.

It does bring up a good point. Outfits can be applied without the need for transmutation charges. They can be put on a brand new character and as you swap gear while you level, you never have to worry about your character’s look. They can be dyed as well. The down side is that you can’t mix and match. It’s all or nothing. You can hide your helmet though.

People complain though. Too many outfits and not enough 6 piece sets. People like to mix and match. People may like just parts of an outfit but not the whole thing. While you can a one time transmutation upon purchase, it’s pointless to put it on a new character. You won’t get the charges fast enough to keep up with how fast you will upgrade your gear. One top of that, what about players with 12+ characters? You can get charges through PS and map completion (each city map completion gives you one). However, these are just one time things per characters. Once done, it can’t be redone with the same character.

I think they did it right with the Zenith skins. You can open up your achievements tab and withdraw them at will. For the cost of these skins, they too should work in a similar fashion. Once purchased, a player should be able to withdraw any piece at will.

Deamhan.9538:

I think they did it right with the Zenith skins. You can open up your achievements tab and withdraw them at will. For the cost of these skins, they too should work in a similar fashion. Once purchased, a player should be able to withdraw any piece at will.

Totally agree with this thread.
Actually, they should behave exactly like the Heritage armour sets.

Titan Cronus.9216:

Deamhan.9538:

I think they did it right with the Zenith skins. You can open up your achievements tab and withdraw them at will. For the cost of these skins, they too should work in a similar fashion. Once purchased, a player should be able to withdraw any piece at will.

Totally agree with this thread.
Actually, they should behave exactly like the Heritage armour sets.

How do Heritage skins behave? I always thought it was like the Zenith and Radiant/Hellfire stuff.

Melanie.1240:

Titan Cronus.9216:

Deamhan.9538:

I think they did it right with the Zenith skins. You can open up your achievements tab and withdraw them at will. For the cost of these skins, they too should work in a similar fashion. Once purchased, a player should be able to withdraw any piece at will.

Totally agree with this thread.
Actually, they should behave exactly like the Heritage armour sets.

How do Heritage skins behave? I always thought it was like the Zenith and Radiant/Hellfire stuff.

Heritage skins work the same way as Zenith, like you thought. both can even be selected from the wardrobe and used with no transmutation charge.

ty to the people who think as I do that it really shouldn’t cost extra to alter gear ..

I have the zenith staff unlocked for taking down Teq I think and any and all characters can now alter staff weapon for free to look like this and it doesn’t soul bind the item ..

BUT here I paid $10 of real money for an item that is basically like an outfit and yet I do have to pay to use it

I usually don’t mind the high end armor looks as a rule and it is the low end ones that are often just plain ugly BUT to use a transmute to alter an item that i will have for less than an day due to leveling up is idiotic

I just seems a bit crooked ..

AND no the explainatoin says nothing about needing transmute charges to alter gear after the first time

It is like an outfit and comes under appearance and yet has a different cost set up to it ..
They even cost the very same as the outfits and IF i had known about this I would have NOT bothered to purchase it so bring it up so maybe they can change it and make it more player friendly and there by maybe get people to purchase them

Well it does say the following on the tooltip for Flamekissed.

“This full set of light armor skins can replace the appearance of light armor pieces, once per slot. The skins will also be unlocked in your account wardrobe.”

The “once per slot” is the free application. And with the minor exception of AP Chest skins like Zenith, skins from the wardrobe requires transmutation charges. This is immensely better than before the wardrobe when if we wanted a second set of skins we had to buy them a second time. Even back then you would use transmutation charges (stones/crystals) to move the skin to newer armor as you upgraded your armor.

Transmutation charges are considerably cheaper, worst case, or free from map completion or login reward.

The only sympathy you are going to find is from the incredibly cheap and lazy.

shaman.1938:

ty to the people who think as I do that it really shouldn’t cost extra to alter gear ..

I have the zenith staff unlocked for taking down Teq I think and any and all characters can now alter staff weapon for free to look like this and it doesn’t soul bind the item ..

BUT here I paid $10 of real money for an item that is basically like an outfit and yet I do have to pay to use it

I usually don’t mind the high end armor looks as a rule and it is the low end ones that are often just plain ugly BUT to use a transmute to alter an item that i will have for less than an day due to leveling up is idiotic

I just seems a bit crooked ..

AND no the explainatoin says nothing about needing transmute charges to alter gear after the first time

It is like an outfit and comes under appearance and yet has a different cost set up to it ..
They even cost the very same as the outfits and IF i had known about this I would have NOT bothered to purchase it so bring it up so maybe they can change it and make it more player friendly and there by maybe get people to purchase them

Taking down Tequattle didn`t unlock the Zenith Skin.
Zenith Weapons are account-rewards. An reward you can use anytime you want.

There are only a handfull of skins who cost nothing after you aplyied them for the first time.
In fact there are only 2 groups of items that do so:
- Hall of Monument skins (rewards for playing GW1 and doing certain tasks there)
- Archievment Point rewards (getting over a certain threshold, will rewards you with weapon or armor skins)

All other skins you find, buy or unlock ingame cost you one transmutation charge.
Charges can be earned by playing the game (Map completion, WvW, PvE, etc. there are several ways)

The two mentioned groups are the exception and your Zenith Skin is one of them.
The vast amount of other skins you unlock don`t follow that category.
In fact since the game was released you needed to use so called transmutation stones which even destroyed another item for its skin.

The items that do not cost any transmutation charges are rewards for players who play the game.

So yeah. You want to take special item qualities and apply them to all skins. Congratulation, you missed the point.

Just kidding. I understand your sentiment, but these things have been in the game for ages (different forms, like described) and are explained enough. I mean, you got a really big glowing text warning you.
Also you don`t have to pay for these charges. I got around 80 sitting around (well, got a ton from the change, but hey, after i started getting into PvE, I got enough)

YES it sort of explains it BUT it comes under the same heading as outfits ..

sure i understand having to use transmute for gear changes WHEN you didn’t already spend $10 for the unlock ..

JUST because it has been there for “ages” doesn’t mean it is right

MEH I will take this cost and remember it and pay nothing more for these kind of items and the game will have fewer purchases and make less money and go under in time due to lack of income..

JUST because people put up with it doesn’t make it right .. it isn’t like it adds armor or anything it is just an appearance item nothing more .. it is an outfit that you can choose individual slots for AND that you paid the same amount as you would for siad outfit item.

Charges are available in the game, you don’t need to spend any money to get them.

yeah this thru me for a loop too when i was leveling up (and afterwards ). I wish they had an appearance system(like everquest 2) where you could wear your gear and another tab had the displayed items.

makes levelling an alt more painful when you have to wear weird crap up until level 80..i just transmuted on a level 2 toon and plan on her wearing that gear up until level 30 at least.

Either make gem store items free to apply or just release an unlimited transmutation stone in gem store (I’d even be fine if costs 2000 gems) for using on pre lvl 80 alts (as i don’t need to transmute my lvl 80s anyways at this point). At least that’s my vote!

i never had any problems with charges…ever.. since they were introduced i always had 90+ of them

And its not that i dont use them….

shaman.1938:

YES it sort of explains it BUT it comes under the same heading as outfits ..

sure i understand having to use transmute for gear changes WHEN you didn’t already spend $10 for the unlock ..

JUST because it has been there for “ages” doesn’t mean it is right

MEH I will take this cost and remember it and pay nothing more for these kind of items and the game will have fewer purchases and make less money and go under in time due to lack of income..

JUST because people put up with it doesn’t make it right .. it isn’t like it adds armor or anything it is just an appearance item nothing more .. it is an outfit that you can choose individual slots for AND that you paid the same amount as you would for siad outfit item.

And you seem to overlook the notion that the game is funded by the gem shop. You buy the skin and they are nice enough to give you a one time per piece “free” transmutation charge (a 144 gem value at best price). Then it acts like any skin found in the game, needing a charge to apply from the wardrobe. But like keys it pays the bills since skins are a big part of the game’s horizontal progression and transmutation charges were in the shop (as stones) since day one.

Again, you are simply cheap and are just ticked that it didn’t work they way you thought it should. Blame yourself for not reading up on how skins and the wardrobe works.

Titan Cronus.9216:

Totally agree with this thread.
Actually, they should behave exactly like the Heritage armour sets.

That you want it, doesn’t mean it should.

Melanie.1240:

Charges are available in the game, you don’t need to spend any money to get them.

And they’re not even particularly difficult to get. Map completion in PvE (can quickly do the capitals) and PvP rewards tracks.

shaman.1938:

ty to the people who think as I do that it really shouldn’t cost extra to alter gear ..

I have the zenith staff unlocked for taking down Teq I think and any and all characters can now alter staff weapon for free to look like this and it doesn’t soul bind the item ..

BUT here I paid $10 of real money for an item that is basically like an outfit and yet I do have to pay to use it

I usually don’t mind the high end armor looks as a rule and it is the low end ones that are often just plain ugly BUT to use a transmute to alter an item that i will have for less than an day due to leveling up is idiotic

I just seems a bit crooked ..

AND no the explainatoin says nothing about needing transmute charges to alter gear after the first time

It is like an outfit and comes under appearance and yet has a different cost set up to it ..
They even cost the very same as the outfits and IF i had known about this I would have NOT bothered to purchase it so bring it up so maybe they can change it and make it more player friendly and there by maybe get people to purchase them

I made this argument before that Xmutation charges were a “second paywall” but…. DLC lovers and people who love to throw money away disagreed and bashed on me.

I’m all for supporting a company. I’m also all for consumer rights as well. It’s not like we’re asking for a game breaking change here

The real problem is that transmutation is three times as expensive on sub level 80s than it was before wardrobe. If we still got three transmutations from zone completion and it only cost one transmutation for levels 1-79 and cost three transmutations for 80 it wouldn’t be nearly the problem it is.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

I made this argument before that Xmutation charges were a “second paywall” but…. DLC lovers and people who love to throw money away disagreed and bashed on me.

I’m all for supporting a company. I’m also all for consumer rights as well. It’s not like we’re asking for a game breaking change here

I hate DLC and I dont throw money away (havent paid for gem for a year)
the xmutation charge system doesnt even bother me because of how easy you can get them in game. I think of the charges as something I earn in game, not a “second paywall”

NTDK.4897:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

I made this argument before that Xmutation charges were a “second paywall” but…. DLC lovers and people who love to throw money away disagreed and bashed on me.

I’m all for supporting a company. I’m also all for consumer rights as well. It’s not like we’re asking for a game breaking change here

I hate DLC and I dont throw money away (havent paid for gem for a year)
the xmutation charge system doesnt even bother me because of how easy you can get them in game. I think of the charges as something I earn in game, not a “second paywall”

Except that not everyone wants to continuously do map completion. Or do pvp. Or wait for Daily rewards. Not everyone is interested in the same things, or plays as often.

Plus the charges are available for “pay”. Other games with xmog systems use in game currency, not s separate system.

At least for items paid with real $$ they could add it to be reused whenever like the zenith skins. Zenith skins are easily earned, and not paid for, and they get this benefit? Why not others?

Again, not a huge change. If anything i would be more willing to pay for stuff because the mentality is more of a company that’s willing to work with their consumers. It wouldn’t hurt them AFAIK. I also stated we’d need to see how much they actually make off xmutation purchases.

I’m not sure getting 500 AP repeatedly is ‘easily earned’ compared to logging in daily to receive Transmutation Charges.

But, each to their own, I guess. /shrug

Behellagh.1468:

shaman.1938:

YES it sort of explains it BUT it comes under the same heading as outfits ..

sure i understand having to use transmute for gear changes WHEN you didn’t already spend $10 for the unlock ..

JUST because it has been there for “ages” doesn’t mean it is right

MEH I will take this cost and remember it and pay nothing more for these kind of items and the game will have fewer purchases and make less money and go under in time due to lack of income..

JUST because people put up with it doesn’t make it right .. it isn’t like it adds armor or anything it is just an appearance item nothing more .. it is an outfit that you can choose individual slots for AND that you paid the same amount as you would for siad outfit item.

And you seem to overlook the notion that the game is funded by the gem shop. You buy the skin and they are nice enough to give you a one time per piece “free” transmutation charge (a 144 gem value at best price). Then it acts like any skin found in the game, needing a charge to apply from the wardrobe. But like keys it pays the bills since skins are a big part of the game’s horizontal progression and transmutation charges were in the shop (as stones) since day one.

Again, you are simply cheap and are just ticked that it didn’t work they way you thought it should. Blame yourself for not reading up on how skins and the wardrobe works.

Yes I can see your point BUT I for one have put out money since I have been back (2 months now I think) for 3 character slots .. 3 gathering tools (the reusable ones from store) .. 1 outfit .. a bit of gold .. an extra bag slot (didn’t know it was only for one character BUT that one was warned if i had read the stupid post on it) .. and another bank slot .. then this item all told $100 or more dollars and now this ..

There are a lot of things I “want” from the store BUT now will consider it buyer beware and avoid them

Yes you can get the transmutes from PvP BUT what if i don’t want to spent the time to do it ?? I have to do something I don’t want to do OR i have to pay huge amounts for transmute items as well ..

I am not saying they don’t need to make money BUT they don’t have to do it in such as way as to leave the player feeling like they were short changed either..

shaman.1938:

~~~ snip ~~~

I don’t have access to the Flamekissed armor, but you do. You paid Gems for it, I didn’t. So the way I see it, you paid money to unlock something awesome looking, thus you got your money’s worth. The only time you should feel “short changed” is if Anet gave me access to the skin without having to buy it. Other than that, enjoy one of the best looking skins in the game.

Kal Spiro.9745:

The real problem is that transmutation is three times as expensive on sub level 80s than it was before wardrobe. If we still got three transmutations from zone completion and it only cost one transmutation for levels 1-79 and cost three transmutations for 80 it wouldn’t be nearly the problem it is.

Transmutation Stone – 125/225/500 gems for 5/10/25 (Level 1-79)
Transmutation Crystal – 200/360/800 gems for 5/10/25 (Level 80)

Versus

Transmutation Charge – 150/270/600 for 5/10/25 (all levels)

The difference now is you only get one free Charge Vs 3 free Stones. It’s a quantity, not a cost issue since free is free. Charges are 20% more than Stones but 25% cheaper than Crystals, in terms of gems. And since players seem to spend more time at 80 than 1-79, we get a break since T-Crystals were never free.

I’ll have to disagree on this one. Transmutation charges aren’t hard to come by unless you’ve got a lot of characters.

The skins are working just as intended. Buy it get the loose skin apply it to your armor then any future armor you can re apply at the cost of a transmutation charge, like every other* armor in the game.

• besides the HoM and Achievement point armor and weapons.

I feel your pain. I wish all gemstore skins were free of charge to apply (once purchased), but I don’t think it’ll ever change :-/ probably the same chance of the engineer’s ‘Juggernaut’ trait ever being fixed – fat chance and no chance.

Transmutation charges can be farmed quite easily. Create a new character and complete the fastest cities to complete (Rata Sum, The Grove, Div’s Reach, Black Citadel), delete the character, rinse and repeat (but don’t forget to double click the Transmutation charges in your inventory first). You can usually get your 6 transmutation charges in 1.5 – 2 hrs without even thinking about it. There’s no fighting involved either.

If you do this on a character you want to keep all the better, you get a fair bit of XP for it too

If you’re on an EU server pm me in game, I’ll run you through my transmute routes if you want.

blade.6052:

Transmutation charges can be farmed quite easily. Create a new character and complete the fastest cities to complete (Rata Sum, The Grove, Div’s Reach, Black Citadel), delete the character, rinse and repeat (but don’t forget to double click the Transmutation charges in your inventory first). You can usually get your 6 transmutation charges in 1.5 – 2 hrs without even thinking about it. There’s no fighting involved either.

If you do this on a character you want to keep all the better, you get a fair bit of XP for it too

If you’re on an EU server pm me in game, I’ll run you through my transmute routes if you want.

Yeah, but that’s time consuming. It’s not DIFFICULT, but again, TIME consuming. Not to mention subjectively boring for myself. As a casual player who’s studying heavily for projects and other things for work, i get less and less time to play during long periods.

If i PAYED real CASH for something, i want to use it when i want, not have to go “earn” something else, or be forced to buy more charges.

How is this so hard to see? You guys plays pretty frequently, and can devote time to farming charges and things.

But the point still stands, its technically another paywall, as it relies on another system that is also purchasable.

Let me repeat, I’m ALL for supporting companies that make good games, but I;m also for consumer rights, and fair use.

I refuse to be a part of the generation that is ok for paying 60$ for a half baked game, only to have to pay another 40$ for the DLC content to get the rest, etc. That whole generation is the reason people can get away with silly things that would seem common sense.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

I made this argument before that Xmutation charges were a “second paywall” but…. DLC lovers and people who love to throw money away disagreed and bashed on me.

I’m all for supporting a company. I’m also all for consumer rights as well. It’s not like we’re asking for a game breaking change here

No, but you are asking the company to give up revenue from one of it’s few (if not only) sources of income (the gem shop). Xcharges are NOT a paywall. I’ve NEVER bought Xcharges and change skins quite a bit. I’ve never fallen below 20 in my wallet. They are not hard to obtain without spending RL $.

Now I can see the complaint from new users that don’t understand the system and how it works, but you are not required to change skins and the charges are availble to earn outside of gem shop purchase. Not liking how the system works to does not mean it should or will change. Using the banner of “consumer rights” to get it changed is kind of silly. At the most, you should request some improvement to the armor description in the Gem Store to make it quite plain (I think it is now) that you get ONE free application and the skins unlocked in the Wardrobe.

I get the system may be different than what players are used to in other (subscription based) games, but nobody is hiding how the wardrobe system works nor what buying an armor set in the gem store provides.

Brother Grimm.5176:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

I made this argument before that Xmutation charges were a “second paywall” but…. DLC lovers and people who love to throw money away disagreed and bashed on me.

I’m all for supporting a company. I’m also all for consumer rights as well. It’s not like we’re asking for a game breaking change here

No, but you are asking the company to give up revenue from one of it’s few (if not only) sources of income (the gem shop). Xcharges are NOT a paywall. I’ve NEVER bought Xcharges and change skins quite a bit. I’ve never fallen below 20 in my wallet. They are not hard to obtain without spending RL $.

Now I can see the complaint from new users that don’t understand the system and how it works, but you are not required to change skins and the charges are availble to earn outside of gem shop purchase. Not liking how the system works to does not mean it should or will change. Using the banner of “consumer rights” to get it changed is kind of silly. At the most, you should request some improvement to the armor description in the Gem Store to make it quite plain (I think it is now) that you get ONE free application and the skins unlocked in the Wardrobe.

I get the system may be different than what players are used to in other (subscription based) games, but nobody is hiding how the wardrobe system works nor what buying an armor set in the gem store provides.

I want to point something out. You are going to be the prime example,as you represent probably 90% of the community.

“No, but you are asking the company to give up revenue from one of it’s few (if not only) sources of income (the gem shop). Xcharges are NOT a paywall. I’ve NEVER bought Xcharges and change skins quite a bit. I’ve never fallen below 20 in my wallet. They are not hard to obtain without spending RL $.
"
You’ve never payed for charges, and probably neither have the other 95% of the gw2 community. So what money are they making off it exactly, if nobody pays for them? And how many people are actually paying Real$ for them instead of using gold to gem conversions? I doubt hardly any are using real cash to buy charges.

Again i never said it was HARD, please re-read. I said it was time consuming, and for players who have less time, it becomes… again.. a paywall! And now we are back at our original point. Why are we shying off the players who don’t get to or don’t play as often?

Why even have the charge system exist then? If they’re so “easy(again issue is TIME)” to earn, and nobody pays for them with cash, why bother having the system at all? This has been brought up multiple times.
“Usng the banner of “consumer rights” to get it changed is kind of silly." No it’s not. That’s a subjective opinion. You could possibly say this isn’t true if someone is using game gold conversion maybe, but I’m talking about purchases used with real $

Let’s also not forget that the zenith skins work in a similar way, and anything earned through ap that ends up reuseable whenever you want. So we KNOW it can be done.

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it? If they represent 95% of the community like you said, why would they make this major change for the 5% that want it?

The charges for skins is very fair to me and I say hooray for current system.
You pay for skin and you can use it once for free. Want to use it more times? Well, here you go, use your charges.

Imagine that with old system year ago if you wanted to use 1 skin more than once you needed to buy that skin for full cost and transmute it with stones with your armor.

Does not change the fact that you are asking them to take a revenue generating item off the market….why would they do so?

You are right it can be done (both AP reward and HoM skins are free)…..and they have done it for those skins to reward loyal customers. AND as I pointed out previously (that everyone that whines about this issue actively ignores) they VASTLY improved the system in terms of how gem purchased skins work now. I had NEVER purchased a gem store skin prior to the Wardrobe system BECAUSE of the limitations of application. I’ve bought several since then (and use them on multiple characters).

Frankly, they’ve given us all several yards and yet YOU want a mile….par for the course around here.

Your implication that it’s a “pay wall”, is absurd as nothing in this game requires you to change your skin(s)…..EVER. There is no WALL to keep you from doing any in-game activity. The multiple option to earn them without using RL $ also dismisses the “pay” part of your claim. That term is used as incorrectly as “grind” around here.

Just so you know, I’d be THRILLED if all my gem bought skins were suddenly 0 charges to use, but I realize it’s not really a reasonable request and certainly not a demand I’m going to make under the guise of “consumer rights”.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Why would they change the system when the majority of players obviously think it’s more than fair?

AGAIN: PRIOR TO WARDROBE YOU HAD TO RE-BUY THE GEM STORE SKINS TO USE THEM MORE THAN ONCE!

Argumentum ad antiquitatem, Argumentum ad populum, Argumentum ad verecundiam.

Just because something was worse before does not mean it’s current iteration is ok because its better before

Does not change the fact that you are asking them to take a revenue generating item off the market….why would they do so?

You are right it can be done (both AP reward and HoM skins are free)…..and they have done it for those. AND as I pointed out previously (that everyone that whines about this issue actively ignores) they VASTLY improved the system in terms of how gem purchased skins work now.

Frankly, they’ve given us all several yards and yet YOU want a mile….par for the course around here.

Argumentum ad logicam

You also fail to see the other side. How many more skins would they earn if they charge system was not in place?

Again, please reread my argument to that.

“You’ve never payed for charges, and probably neither have the other 95% of the gw2 community. So what money are they making off it exactly, if nobody pays for them? And how many people are actually paying Real$ for them instead of using gold to gem conversions? I doubt hardly any are using real cash to buy charges.”

Anet would have to prove what money they are actually making off charges, vs skin production. There’s been plenty of people who say they won’t pay for skins because of something like this, so I am definitely not alone.

How do you know extra skin sales won’t outdo the xmutation charge sales?

I can personally say i would be more willing to spend real $ on a skin i wanted, than trying to pay for charges to change my current ones, but like other people have said the second paywall deters them.

Again we are talking about real $ here, not items bought through ingame gold to currency exchange.

Secondly; here “Just so you know, I’d be THRILLED if all my gem bought skins were suddenly 0 charges to use, but I realize it’s not really a reasonable request and certainly not a demand I’m going to make under the guise of “consumer rights”.”

So you admit it would be a great change, and with the increased sales of skins because of this change, would this not be a beneficial change to both parties? I hard see how this is a selfish idea. ANd, having a right to something I purchased is a common thing. We don’t “rent” skins. Anything you buy from a store that’s non perishable is permanently yours. If i am trading my physical cash for a virtual item, i wish for it to be mine, not under specific conditions.

This same idea comes up frequently. You are buying the unlock, not the transmutation. ‘Free’ transmutation is limited consistently to account rewards (zenith and HoM skins) and to outfits (which suffer from multiple disadvantages over other skins, notably only four color channels and cannot be combined with any other armor skins).

I personally don’t see a problem with the current system. Likely, if they changed it to infinite transmutes, the price would go up and I’d be far less likely to purchase.

Edgar,

How is it a paywall if (as you say)no one has to pay for them?

Would it be nice to have unlimited uses from gemstore purchased ski s ? Yeah. But that really isnt any different than saying yes to, "would it be nice to not have to pay full price for something "

Anet set the price at $10 for a single use. If one finds that price too high one should not pay it. Of course there is nothing wrong with suggesting a reduction in price or the bundling of an additonal feature unlimited uses) for the existing price.

As it stands the only people who have any solid information on selling trends and revenue generation are the ones who implemented the current system. The fact that it still exists in its current implementation could just be inertia, or it could be that the numbers support the current setup.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

This same idea comes up frequently. You are buying the unlock, not the transmutation. ‘Free’ transmutation is limited consistently to account rewards (zenith and HoM skins) and to outfits (which suffer from multiple disadvantages over other skins, notably only four color channels and cannot be combined with any other armor skins).

I personally don’t see a problem with the current system. Likely, if they changed it to infinite transmutes, the price would go up and I’d be far less likely to purchase.

What about what i just said about increased sales due to unlimited use of purchased skins? What about my argument that i made that completely counters this? Did you ignore that or maybe not see it? If the sales of new skins due to being unlimited use outweighs the profits made from xmog charges, why would they increase cost?

I can say as a consumer i am more likely to drop 10$ on a skin set i want, and probably never pay for xmog charges. If i had to choose between the two, it would be the skin.

Ashen.2907:

Edgar,

How is it a paywall if (as you say)no one has to pay for them?

Would it be nice to have unlimited uses from gemstore purchased ski s ? Yeah. But that really isnt any different than saying yes to, "would it be nice to not have to pay full price for something "

Anet set the price at $10 for a single use. If one finds that price too high one should not pay it. Of course there is nothing wrong with suggesting a reduction in price or the bundling of an additonal feature unlimited uses) for the existing price.

As it stands the only people who have any solid information on selling trends and revenue generation are the ones who implemented the current system. The fact that it still exists in its current implementation could just be inertia, or it could be that the numbers support the current setup.

It’s a paywall because the unit is not free and has to be earned. For those who don’t have time to farm the secondary unit to use the first unit(the purchased skin). For those people they may not have the time to farm the gold to transfer to gems for xmog charges, or to farm the charges themselves. This process is not difficult, but time consuming. for those people, they will have to pay if they want to. If charges were available to everyone, and not available at all for $, then it wouldn’t be a paywall. It still a paywall, just loosely defined. It’s also gating a purchase, which is part of the issue. I don’t want to rely on a secondary system that’s really not necessary(by coding standards) to allow me to use my purchase.

I agree with anet has the trends, and the stats to back any of this up as i have said a couple times, but I am also here to voice an opinion and debate it. I would Imagine anet listens to its players too, but there are too many “fanboys” who whiteknightedly defend it as if there cannot be a better option that benefits even both sides.

I would also like to clarify that both arguments of “it’s ok the way it is now” and " It’s better than it was" are both logical fallacies, and not valid points to counter why something could not be better.

I’m all for hearing other options, and good counter arguments but neither of those work

I prefer this system because it isn’t an intrusive way of generating revenue. You know what you’re getting, the price is low, and it’s not blocked by any kind of paywall, because it’s not a WALL. The game allows you to obtain them in-game. It’s a convenience item, just like the infinite gathering tools.

Do I have issues with some of the monetization in the game? Yeah, I do. This isn’t one of them. I’m sorry it’s an issue for you, though.

Go ahead and call me a whiteknight or a fanboy: I need a good laugh.

Guhracie.3419:

I prefer this system because it isn’t an intrusive way of generating revenue. You know what you’re getting, the price is low, and it’s not blocked by any kind of paywall, because it’s not a WALL. The game allows you to obtain them in-game. It’s a convenience item, just like the infinite gathering tools.

Do I have issues with some of the monetization in the game? Yeah, I do. This isn’t one of them. I’m sorry it’s an issue for you, though.

Go ahead and call me a whiteknight or a fanboy: I need a good laugh.

So you prefer this system over a system that allows infinite use of the skins you by? I’d love to hear the explanation behind that one, as a player, and not as a company. As for an issue, if they want my money, and the money of others who feel the same way I do, then its an ISSUE for anet. It’s not a personal issue for me as I just won’t drop the cash. I can’t think of a single other mmo/game that offer skins for cash that doesn’t give them to you permanently, many of the ones i know being f2p. Even tera gives limited skins separate from the permanent skins, at a discounted price appropriately.

The solution provided would benefit both players and Anet, and is still non intrusive, so i really don’t see your point here.

The solution is to make gemstore items free-to-apply? Or did I miss something else? My apologies if I have, but if that’s the solution, then here’s why I don’t like it:

If they lose revenue from that, they have to make it up somewhere else. There is an inevitable trade-off that will have to happen somewhere and I, personally, do not find the transmutation charges to be onerous. Therefore, it is preferable to me, as a player, than the unknown outcome of making the change. I fully accept and respect that it’s not preferable to everyone, as players, but that’s why it is to me.

Guhracie.3419:

The solution is to make gemstore items free-to-apply? Or did I miss something else? My apologies if I have, but if that’s the solution, then here’s why I don’t like it:

If they lose revenue from that, they have to make it up somewhere else. There is an inevitable trade-off that will have to happen somewhere and I, personally, do not find the transmutation charges to be onerous. Therefore, it is preferable to me, as a player, than the unknown outcome of making the change. I fully accept and respect that it’s not preferable to everyone, as players, but that’s why it is to me.

I can understand that, and the trade off of “possible lost revenue”. That’s why i proposed the idea of the increased revenue made by players who felt similar, and would now be more inclined to purchase skins. Skins cost more transmutation charges, and offer more. I have no idea how much they actually make off selling transmutation charges. from what people have been saying, i have not seen one person say they actually payed for xmutation charges, i wonder how big this “profit” really is?

What if the increased sales of skins outweighs the money that they make from selling charges? Wouldn’t be in anets interest to do this then?

I have created 2 polls to help gather data, located here

http://www.poll-maker.com/poll275585xDcA240BF-10 – Skin revenue poll

http://www.poll-maker.com/poll275610x72409927-10 – money spent on xmog charges