Guild Wars 2

Preface: I am not by anymeans harcore. I’ve leveled 10 toons, they are in exotics and ascened trinkets. I don’t PVP, Craft, do JP’s, dungeon run or WvW with any regularity. I don’t consider myself casual, but judge for yourself.

I’ve done the events and PS ad nausium. Some are great fun. However, I’ve never gotten a good piece of loot from one. I certainly haven’t from mobs or chests. I’m geared so if it isn’t something special then its junk to me.

From what I understand leveling, loot, drops and chests are far better in other modes of play.

There’s a ton of in game things that are either useless or unobtainable to me. Take MF I am at about 100%. realisticly, I’ll never max it out. It took me about a month to realize I’d never make significant progress in crafting or my legendary due to time constraints. How is that fun?

I like working towards stuff but the stuff has to be meaningful. In other games you could beat specific bosses for a chance of something unique like a weapon or armor set. That would be fun.

I was doing the wintersday stuff and I though, “why am I doing this?” There’s nothing I really want. The few nice items that I wanted were mostly out of my reach. I got so much junk I was destroying it. I could have sold it for 2 copper on the TP, but why?

SHM.7628:

Ok, I am now ready for the white knights to trounce me for my point of view.

Way to encourage constructive conversation.

Also, you’re going to have to just accept that the amount of time you’re putting into the game is not sufficient to achieve the goals you have set for yourself. So, you have two options:

1. Play the game more so you can achieve your goals
2. Accept that your goals are unrealistic, and stop wasting time on them

A huge percentage of the problems people have with this game can be traced to the inability to reconcile the things they want vs. the effort they’re willing to put into getting them. Important to keep in mind is that nothing you do in this game matters in reality. Who cares if you never get a legendary? You probably won’t even be talking about this game in 5 years.

I approach GW2 the way I approach life. Possessions are nice, but experiences are the reason to keep going. Just play the game and try to enjoy it, and if you don’t enjoy it, take a break. (I don’t recommend that exact approach for life, but you get what I mean)

You said it yourself: you are no hardcore gamer. So why should a hardcore gamer get a legendary easily? It’s a long term goal. It’s the typical whining of players who just want everything easily, this mindset keeps influencing more and more the game community in a whole and destroys the good ol’ gaming sector as a whole.

Again: if you want fast rewards and easy achievable stuff, go and play a mobile game.

Well, I disagree with the OP in some respects. I find that the NPE system which increases the chance of armour-class matching equipment dropping is a huge boon. When I levelled 3 characters on Piken Square and 2 on Tarnished Coast post-NPE, I found that I didn’t have to buy any equipment at all until I was ready for my level 80 exotics.

I would also recommend you -not- make a Legendary your primary goal in game. A former guildmate of mine did that. She made Bifrost and immediately quit.

Andred.1087:

SHM.7628:

Ok, I am now ready for the white knights to trounce me for my point of view.

Way to encourage constructive conversation.

Also, you’re going to have to just accept that the amount of time you’re putting into the game is not sufficient to achieve the goals you have set for yourself. So, you have two options:

1. Play the game more so you can achieve your goals
2. Accept that your goals are unrealistic, and stop wasting time on them

A huge percentage of the problems people have with this game can be traced to the inability to reconcile the things they want vs. the effort they’re willing to put into getting them. Important to keep in mind is that nothing you do in this game matters in reality. Who cares if you never get a legendary? You probably won’t even be talking about this game in 5 years.

I approach GW2 the way I approach life. Possessions are nice, but experiences are the reason to keep going. Just play the game and try to enjoy it, and if you don’t enjoy it, take a break. (I don’t recommend that exact approach for life, but you get what I mean)

Ok, I’ll delete that part of my post. You’re criticism was at least constructive. I know not every thing in game is going to be for me. (like legendary crafting) I’m fine with that. Why play if there’s no fruit?

However, there has to be some balance between fun and achievement of a game is pointless grind. Why should I kill Teq for the 300th time? (just an example) He hasn’t progresssed me at all. Sure it is sometimes fun to do. I’ve never gotten anything worthwhile from him. (Isn’t that sad?)

SHM.7628:

Andred.1087:

SHM.7628:

Ok, I am now ready for the white knights to trounce me for my point of view.

Way to encourage constructive conversation.

Also, you’re going to have to just accept that the amount of time you’re putting into the game is not sufficient to achieve the goals you have set for yourself. So, you have two options:

1. Play the game more so you can achieve your goals
2. Accept that your goals are unrealistic, and stop wasting time on them

A huge percentage of the problems people have with this game can be traced to the inability to reconcile the things they want vs. the effort they’re willing to put into getting them. Important to keep in mind is that nothing you do in this game matters in reality. Who cares if you never get a legendary? You probably won’t even be talking about this game in 5 years.

I approach GW2 the way I approach life. Possessions are nice, but experiences are the reason to keep going. Just play the game and try to enjoy it, and if you don’t enjoy it, take a break. (I don’t recommend that exact approach for life, but you get what I mean)

Ok, I’ll delete that part of my post. You’re criticism was at least constructive. I know not every thing in game is going to be for me. (like legendary crafting) I’m fine with that. Why play if there’s no fruit?

However, there has to be some balance between fun and achievement of a game is pointless grind. Why should I kill Teq for the 300th time? (just an example) He hasn’t progresssed me at all. Sure it is sometimes fun to do. I’ve never gotten anything worthwhile from him. (Isn’t that sad?)

If you’ve killed Teq for the 300th time he’s given you around 600 gold (that’s just coin wise not including other loot).

SHM.7628:

I don’t PVP, Craft, do JP’s, dungeon run or WvW with any regularity.

So you don’t participate in 80% of the game. PvP, Craft, JP, Dungeon and WvW is ALL what I do in the game except the Living Story and Achievement Hunting. I have a hard time to see what do you do in the game if you are not a casual but don’t do any of those things. I guess you level up toons whic is suppose to be a way to learn your profession and the game, not an end game to get the good stuff.

ProtoGunner.4953:

You said it yourself: you are no hardcore gamer. So why should a hardcore gamer get a legendary easily? It’s a long term goal. It’s the typical whining of players who just want everything easily, this mindset keeps influencing more and more the game community in a whole and destroys the good ol’ gaming sector as a whole.

Again: if you want fast rewards and easy achievable stuff, go and play a mobile game.

Did you even bother to read my post? I put legendary as an example. It’s clearly out of my reach, so be it. People like you assume everyone wants everything easilly. I like working towards things within reason Anyway, there’s a difference between easy and obtainable. “Easy and hard” are subjective anyway.

I’m also Ok with longterm goals and stuff in game designed for the hardcore.

Thaddeus.4891:

SHM.7628:

I don’t PVP, Craft, do JP’s, dungeon run or WvW with any regularity.

So you don’t participate in 80% of the game. PvP, Craft, JP, Dungeon and WvW is ALL what I do in the game except the Living Story and Achievement Hunting. I have a hard time to see what do you do in the game if you are not a casual but don’t do any of those things. I guess you level up toons whic is suppose to be a way to learn your profession and the game, not an end game to get the good stuff.

Lot’s of people play that way. I’ve tried a lot of it, its just not for me. I’m glad that stuff is there for you to enjoy though.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

SHM.7628:

Andred.1087:

SHM.7628:

Ok, I am now ready for the white knights to trounce me for my point of view.

Way to encourage constructive conversation.

Also, you’re going to have to just accept that the amount of time you’re putting into the game is not sufficient to achieve the goals you have set for yourself. So, you have two options:

1. Play the game more so you can achieve your goals
2. Accept that your goals are unrealistic, and stop wasting time on them

A huge percentage of the problems people have with this game can be traced to the inability to reconcile the things they want vs. the effort they’re willing to put into getting them. Important to keep in mind is that nothing you do in this game matters in reality. Who cares if you never get a legendary? You probably won’t even be talking about this game in 5 years.

I approach GW2 the way I approach life. Possessions are nice, but experiences are the reason to keep going. Just play the game and try to enjoy it, and if you don’t enjoy it, take a break. (I don’t recommend that exact approach for life, but you get what I mean)

Ok, I’ll delete that part of my post. You’re criticism was at least constructive. I know not every thing in game is going to be for me. (like legendary crafting) I’m fine with that. Why play if there’s no fruit?

However, there has to be some balance between fun and achievement of a game is pointless grind. Why should I kill Teq for the 300th time? (just an example) He hasn’t progresssed me at all. Sure it is sometimes fun to do. I’ve never gotten anything worthwhile from him. (Isn’t that sad?)

If you’ve killed Teq for the 300th time he’s given you around 600 gold (that’s just coin wise not including other loot).

yeah and your point is?

SHM.7628:

AdaephonDelat.3890:

SHM.7628:

Andred.1087:

SHM.7628:

Ok, I am now ready for the white knights to trounce me for my point of view.

Way to encourage constructive conversation.

Also, you’re going to have to just accept that the amount of time you’re putting into the game is not sufficient to achieve the goals you have set for yourself. So, you have two options:

1. Play the game more so you can achieve your goals
2. Accept that your goals are unrealistic, and stop wasting time on them

A huge percentage of the problems people have with this game can be traced to the inability to reconcile the things they want vs. the effort they’re willing to put into getting them. Important to keep in mind is that nothing you do in this game matters in reality. Who cares if you never get a legendary? You probably won’t even be talking about this game in 5 years.

I approach GW2 the way I approach life. Possessions are nice, but experiences are the reason to keep going. Just play the game and try to enjoy it, and if you don’t enjoy it, take a break. (I don’t recommend that exact approach for life, but you get what I mean)

Ok, I’ll delete that part of my post. You’re criticism was at least constructive. I know not every thing in game is going to be for me. (like legendary crafting) I’m fine with that. Why play if there’s no fruit?

However, there has to be some balance between fun and achievement of a game is pointless grind. Why should I kill Teq for the 300th time? (just an example) He hasn’t progresssed me at all. Sure it is sometimes fun to do. I’ve never gotten anything worthwhile from him. (Isn’t that sad?)

If you’ve killed Teq for the 300th time he’s given you around 600 gold (that’s just coin wise not including other loot).

yeah and your point is?

You said he hasn’t progressed you. 600 gold can get you pretty far. Admittedly it’s rather spread out over time so you won’t notice it but it’s still 600 gold.

I generally log in for Teq get my 2g and my shiny spoon, sell my junk and log out.
It is the way of GW2 with rewards tied into BLC RNG and LS metas.
I do like dungeons but there is little risk vs reward with the small exception of aetherblade(which has pathetic drops for the run).
Now the goal is just to alleviate boredom with a 20 min teq run and get back to my other games which currently hold my interest.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

SHM.7628:

AdaephonDelat.3890:

SHM.7628:

Andred.1087:

SHM.7628:

Ok, I am now ready for the white knights to trounce me for my point of view.

Way to encourage constructive conversation.

Also, you’re going to have to just accept that the amount of time you’re putting into the game is not sufficient to achieve the goals you have set for yourself. So, you have two options:

1. Play the game more so you can achieve your goals
2. Accept that your goals are unrealistic, and stop wasting time on them

A huge percentage of the problems people have with this game can be traced to the inability to reconcile the things they want vs. the effort they’re willing to put into getting them. Important to keep in mind is that nothing you do in this game matters in reality. Who cares if you never get a legendary? You probably won’t even be talking about this game in 5 years.

I approach GW2 the way I approach life. Possessions are nice, but experiences are the reason to keep going. Just play the game and try to enjoy it, and if you don’t enjoy it, take a break. (I don’t recommend that exact approach for life, but you get what I mean)

Ok, I’ll delete that part of my post. You’re criticism was at least constructive. I know not every thing in game is going to be for me. (like legendary crafting) I’m fine with that. Why play if there’s no fruit?

However, there has to be some balance between fun and achievement of a game is pointless grind. Why should I kill Teq for the 300th time? (just an example) He hasn’t progresssed me at all. Sure it is sometimes fun to do. I’ve never gotten anything worthwhile from him. (Isn’t that sad?)

If you’ve killed Teq for the 300th time he’s given you around 600 gold (that’s just coin wise not including other loot).

yeah and your point is?

You said he hasn’t progressed you. 600 gold can get you pretty far. Admittedly it’s rather spread out over time so you won’t notice it but it’s still 600 gold.

Sounds like a lot but in game stuff is expensive. Example, buy some 20 slot bags, an abyss dye, character slots, trait unlocks, bank space and get back to me with a total. I want fun not a gold grind anyway.

SHM.7628:

However, there has to be some balance between fun and achievement of a game is pointless grind.

Food for thought: GW2 is at its core not designed to be played for some reward or another.
That is to say, if your motivation to continue playing a MMORPG is that your character is constantly earning something, then GW2 is just not that type of game. There’s plenty MMOs for that itch, but GW2 isn’t really it. And yes, it’s weird as a result. Effectively, like players playing FPS before the days of endless stats and grinds, you play GW2 because you enjoy playing GW2, or you don’t. Ignoring artificial reward systems.

SHM.7628:

AdaephonDelat.3890:

SHM.7628:

AdaephonDelat.3890:

SHM.7628:

Andred.1087:

SHM.7628:

Ok, I am now ready for the white knights to trounce me for my point of view.

Way to encourage constructive conversation.

Also, you’re going to have to just accept that the amount of time you’re putting into the game is not sufficient to achieve the goals you have set for yourself. So, you have two options:

1. Play the game more so you can achieve your goals
2. Accept that your goals are unrealistic, and stop wasting time on them

A huge percentage of the problems people have with this game can be traced to the inability to reconcile the things they want vs. the effort they’re willing to put into getting them. Important to keep in mind is that nothing you do in this game matters in reality. Who cares if you never get a legendary? You probably won’t even be talking about this game in 5 years.

I approach GW2 the way I approach life. Possessions are nice, but experiences are the reason to keep going. Just play the game and try to enjoy it, and if you don’t enjoy it, take a break. (I don’t recommend that exact approach for life, but you get what I mean)

Ok, I’ll delete that part of my post. You’re criticism was at least constructive. I know not every thing in game is going to be for me. (like legendary crafting) I’m fine with that. Why play if there’s no fruit?

However, there has to be some balance between fun and achievement of a game is pointless grind. Why should I kill Teq for the 300th time? (just an example) He hasn’t progresssed me at all. Sure it is sometimes fun to do. I’ve never gotten anything worthwhile from him. (Isn’t that sad?)

If you’ve killed Teq for the 300th time he’s given you around 600 gold (that’s just coin wise not including other loot).

yeah and your point is?

You said he hasn’t progressed you. 600 gold can get you pretty far. Admittedly it’s rather spread out over time so you won’t notice it but it’s still 600 gold.

Sounds like a lot but in game stuff is expensive. Example, buy some 20 slot bags, an abyss dye, character slots, trait unlocks, bank space and get back to me with a total. I want fun not a gold grind anyway.

Yup not disagreeing with those. In fact the only part of your whole post I’m disagreeing with is whether Teq progressed you or not. But if you want a 20 slot bag I can make you one. Got the mats and the crafting needed. Abyss I sold my spares sorry, and the others I can’t help with. But at a guess you’ve spent your 600 gold with that list.

Andred.1087:

SHM.7628:

Ok, I am now ready for the white knights to trounce me for my point of view.

Way to encourage constructive conversation.

Do you see why I wrote that now? Every post so far has been to tell me I am wrong. really? I wrote nothing anyone can agree on? Not one thing I said had any validity at all? I’m not unreasonable, the post is being trolled.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

SHM.7628:

AdaephonDelat.3890:

SHM.7628:

AdaephonDelat.3890:

SHM.7628:

Andred.1087:

SHM.7628:

Ok, I am now ready for the white knights to trounce me for my point of view.

Way to encourage constructive conversation.

Also, you’re going to have to just accept that the amount of time you’re putting into the game is not sufficient to achieve the goals you have set for yourself. So, you have two options:

1. Play the game more so you can achieve your goals
2. Accept that your goals are unrealistic, and stop wasting time on them

A huge percentage of the problems people have with this game can be traced to the inability to reconcile the things they want vs. the effort they’re willing to put into getting them. Important to keep in mind is that nothing you do in this game matters in reality. Who cares if you never get a legendary? You probably won’t even be talking about this game in 5 years.

I approach GW2 the way I approach life. Possessions are nice, but experiences are the reason to keep going. Just play the game and try to enjoy it, and if you don’t enjoy it, take a break. (I don’t recommend that exact approach for life, but you get what I mean)

Ok, I’ll delete that part of my post. You’re criticism was at least constructive. I know not every thing in game is going to be for me. (like legendary crafting) I’m fine with that. Why play if there’s no fruit?

However, there has to be some balance between fun and achievement of a game is pointless grind. Why should I kill Teq for the 300th time? (just an example) He hasn’t progresssed me at all. Sure it is sometimes fun to do. I’ve never gotten anything worthwhile from him. (Isn’t that sad?)

If you’ve killed Teq for the 300th time he’s given you around 600 gold (that’s just coin wise not including other loot).

yeah and your point is?

You said he hasn’t progressed you. 600 gold can get you pretty far. Admittedly it’s rather spread out over time so you won’t notice it but it’s still 600 gold.

Sounds like a lot but in game stuff is expensive. Example, buy some 20 slot bags, an abyss dye, character slots, trait unlocks, bank space and get back to me with a total. I want fun not a gold grind anyway.

Yup not disagreeing with those. In fact the only part of your whole post I’m disagreeing with is whether Teq progressed you or not. But if you want a 20 slot bag I can make you one. Got the mats and the crafting needed. Abyss I sold my spares sorry, and the others I can’t help with. But at a guess you’ve spent your 600 gold with that list.

Thanks. Yeah, I pretty much never craft unless it was to level a toon that needed it.

SHM.7628:

I don’t PVP, Craft, do JP’s, dungeon run or WvW with any regularity. I don’t consider myself casual, but judge for yourself.

Speaking of jumping puzzles, have you seen how empty the area from last JP update. Nice going Anet, you wasted a chunk of SW map for for something people will only do once, then abandon. No wonder China is dumping this game.

Carighan.6758:

SHM.7628:

However, there has to be some balance between fun and achievement of a game is pointless grind.

Food for thought: GW2 is at its core not designed to be played for some reward or another.
That is to say, if your motivation to continue playing a MMORPG is that your character is constantly earning something, then GW2 is just not that type of game. There’s plenty MMOs for that itch, but GW2 isn’t really it. And yes, it’s weird as a result. Effectively, like players playing FPS before the days of endless stats and grinds, you play GW2 because you enjoy playing GW2, or you don’t. Ignoring artificial reward systems.

1)You think I might have liked the game leveling 10 toons through?

2) Does that mean I shouldn’t also want some reward and a feeling of progression?

Some GW2 rewards drop in specific places (e.g., Teq, Wurm, TA AP). Others are incremental (you collect various stuff, like crafting mats for Ascended, or tokens for Dungeon Skins). Still other rewards can drop anywhere. This was done, presumably, to allow any play style to yield one of those “drop anywhere” rewards. Unfortunately, this means huge drop tables, which means vanishingly small chances to get one of the few things that one might actually want. Everything else is meant to be salvaged and the mats used or sold. This allows for another incremental reward system where you craft or collect gold and buy what you want off the TP.

The benefit of this system is that things like Precursors can drop off level 2 Moas in Caledon. The drawback is that that feeling you get when you get an awesome drop is exceedingly rare.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Some GW2 rewards drop in specific places (e.g., Teq, Wurm, TA AP). Others are incremental (you collect various stuff, like crafting mats for Ascended, or tokens for Dungeon Skins). Still other rewards can drop anywhere. This was done, presumably, to allow any play style to yield one of those “drop anywhere” rewards. Unfortunately, this means huge drop tables, which means vanishingly small chances to get one of the few things that one might actually want. Everything else is meant to be salvaged and the mats used or sold. This allows for another incremental reward system where you craft or collect gold and buy what you want off the TP.

The benefit of this system is that things like Precursors can drop off level 2 Moas in Caledon. The drawback is that that feeling you get when you get an awesome drop is exceedingly rare.

I understand the points you made. I just don’t feel it’s fun. I’ve played a ton of hours and never gotten a precursor. (not that I need one but nice to get something valuable as a drop)

Perhaps, I always get on the wrong side of the RNG, but even exotics have been pretty sparce for me. I rarely get one I can use or is worth much.

SHM.7628:

From what I understand leveling, loot, drops and chests are far better in other modes of play.

I’m not sure what gave you that impression given that players who focus on those modes(with the exception of Dungeon runs) are constantly complaining about how little loot/gold they generate compared to just doing PvE.

SHM.7628:

2) Does that mean I shouldn’t also want some reward and a feeling of progression?

Probably not, no. Especially on the second part. At it’s underlying core the game just feels to never have been designed with “progression” in mind.
They added some systems later which can work in that way, sure. Achievement point rewards, ascended gear, skin bank, WXP levels.

But if you look back at the core of the game, no, the game was designed to be enjoyable for itself, not for some artificial motivation method. Whether it is or not, that’s a different issue ofc. :P

Carighan.6758:

SHM.7628:

2) Does that mean I shouldn’t also want some reward and a feeling of progression?

Probably not, no. Especially on the second part. At it’s underlying core the game just feels to never have been designed with “progression” in mind.
They added some systems later which can work in that way, sure. Achievement point rewards, ascended gear, skin bank, WXP levels.

But if you look back at the core of the game, no, the game was designed to be enjoyable for itself, not for some artificial motivation method. Whether it is or not, that’s a different issue ofc. :P

I actually like the game but it’s still not enough over time. If there is no meaningful progression then its just a grind. (not fun)

I like a lot of the content. (not all of it) There needs to be a reward for it or its eventually just tedium.

Oddly enough, I don’t think shortage of maps or DE’s are the problem. There’s a ton of map and events. I don’t even want an expansion. Reward me for what is there.

SHM.7628:

Carighan.6758:

SHM.7628:

2) Does that mean I shouldn’t also want some reward and a feeling of progression?

Probably not, no. Especially on the second part. At it’s underlying core the game just feels to never have been designed with “progression” in mind.
They added some systems later which can work in that way, sure. Achievement point rewards, ascended gear, skin bank, WXP levels.

But if you look back at the core of the game, no, the game was designed to be enjoyable for itself, not for some artificial motivation method. Whether it is or not, that’s a different issue ofc. :P

I actually like the game but it’s still not enough over time. If there is no meaningful progression then its just a grind. (not fun)

I like a lot of the content. (not all of it) There needs to be a reward for it or its eventually just tedium.

Oddly enough, I don’t think shortage of maps or DE’s are the problem. There’s a ton of map and events. I don’t even want an expansion. Reward me for what is there.

But you are getting rewarded at every turn with exp and loot so what more do you want man?

SHM.7628:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Some GW2 rewards drop in specific places (e.g., Teq, Wurm, TA AP). Others are incremental (you collect various stuff, like crafting mats for Ascended, or tokens for Dungeon Skins). Still other rewards can drop anywhere. This was done, presumably, to allow any play style to yield one of those “drop anywhere” rewards. Unfortunately, this means huge drop tables, which means vanishingly small chances to get one of the few things that one might actually want. Everything else is meant to be salvaged and the mats used or sold. This allows for another incremental reward system where you craft or collect gold and buy what you want off the TP.

The benefit of this system is that things like Precursors can drop off level 2 Moas in Caledon. The drawback is that that feeling you get when you get an awesome drop is exceedingly rare.

I understand the points you made. I just don’t feel it’s fun. I’ve played a ton of hours and never gotten a precursor. (not that I need one but nice to get something valuable as a drop)

Perhaps, I always get on the wrong side of the RNG, but even exotics have been pretty sparce for me. I rarely get one I can use or is worth much.

I’m on that side of the RNG tables, also. My frequency of green/gold drops is up since I boosted my MF, but exotics are still very rare (and the few I get sell for 1-2 gold) and as far as Ascended armor/weapons, I have no evidence beyond other players saying they get them now and again to show they are even on the drop tables — I’ve never gotten one.

The bottom line for me is that incremental reward systems provide fun in tiny increments. RNG drops provide a moment of serendipity, and that’s fun. However, such moments are rare to non-existent. Unfortunately, I don’t see the reward system being completely reinvented.

SHM.7628:

Preface: I am not by anymeans harcore. I’ve leveled 10 toons, they are in exotics and ascened trinkets. I don’t PVP, Craft, do JP’s, dungeon run or WvW with any regularity. I don’t consider myself casual, but judge for yourself.

I’ve done the events and PS ad nausium. Some are great fun. However, I’ve never gotten a good piece of loot from one. I certainly haven’t from mobs or chests. I’m geared so if it isn’t something special then its junk to me.

From what I understand leveling, loot, drops and chests are far better in other modes of play.

There’s a ton of in game things that are either useless or unobtainable to me. Take MF I am at about 100%. realisticly, I’ll never max it out. It took me about a month to realize I’d never make significant progress in crafting or my legendary due to time constraints. How is that fun?

I like working towards stuff but the stuff has to be meaningful. In other games you could beat specific bosses for a chance of something unique like a weapon or armor set. That would be fun.

I was doing the wintersday stuff and I though, “why am I doing this?” There’s nothing I really want. The few nice items that I wanted were mostly out of my reach. I got so much junk I was destroying it. I could have sold it for 2 copper on the TP, but why?

First, there ARE bosses that drop unique armor/weapon sets – Tequatl and Triple Trouble both have (small) chances to drop unique Ascended items. It sounds like you don’t like the RNG though, so maybe you’re looking for something like the dungeon armor? Yes, it only drops from dungeons or PvP, though folks in various threads have offered suggestions on mixing that up. Or maybe the Silverwastes’ Luminous armor, which is exclusively PvE and not excessively grindy? Last season, Scarlet had a chance to drop Scarlet’s Kiss and Scarlet’s Rainbow – the only mega-amazing drop I’ve ever looted.

Second, what would be an example of good/special loot, in your mind? Does it need to have a fancy skin? Be expensive? How should it be earned? Clearly “a chance” to drop from a boss isn’t enough. Would you prefer a reward track? I certainly would! Try not to use a precursor as an example, since that’s been discussed ad nauseum.

Finally, what would be a good example of progression? What are your goals in playing the game? If the answer is just “to have fun,” then what do you enjoy doing?

SHM.7628:

Do you see why I wrote that now? Every post so far has been to tell me I am wrong. really? I wrote nothing anyone can agree on? Not one thing I said had any validity at all? I’m not unreasonable, the post is being trolled.

So anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. It’s not at all possible that other people have reasonable opinions that are different to your own. Hmm…

Anyway. Play because you enjoy playing. Don’t play because you get given pixel that only exist in the context of the thing you don’t enjoy playing that much. The rewards for open-world PvE are pretty good, given the difficulty and effort involved.

You don’t feel rewarded by things like blues and greens? Well, you wouldn’t feel rewarded by rares and exotics either, if they were dropping so much in the open world that casual players would frequently get them. Because all the players with more time for farming would be getting them in far greater quantities. This game is an MMO: that means that rewards have to be balanced against a spectrum of play-styles and play-times.

felessan.9587:

SHM.7628:

Preface: I am not by anymeans harcore. I’ve leveled 10 toons, they are in exotics and ascened trinkets.

First, there ARE bosses that drop unique armor/weapon sets – Tequatl and Triple Trouble both have (small) chances to drop unique Ascended items. It sounds like you don’t like the RNG though, so maybe you’re looking for something like the dungeon armor? Yes, it only drops from dungeons or PvP, though folks in various threads have offered suggestions on mixing that up. Or maybe the Silverwastes’ Luminous armor, which is exclusively PvE and not excessively grindy? Last season, Scarlet had a chance to drop Scarlet’s Kiss and Scarlet’s Rainbow – the only mega-amazing drop I’ve ever looted.

Second, what would be an example of good/special loot, in your mind? Does it need to have a fancy skin? Be expensive? How should it be earned? Clearly “a chance” to drop from a boss isn’t enough. Would you prefer a reward track? I certainly would! Try not to use a precursor as an example, since that’s been discussed ad nauseum.

Finally, what would be a good example of progression? What are your goals in playing the game? If the answer is just “to have fun,” then what do you enjoy doing?

You asked some good questions and made some good points.

what would be an example of good/special loot, in your mind? Does it need to have a fancy skin? Be expensive?

Yes to all. Frankly, I think almost all of the skins are mediocre in this game. If it was an especially nice looking skin, it would likely be valuable. It might also be valuable if it were part of a coveted set. A valuable peice, like a precursor or an expensive upgrade, craftinging mat, or even a dye. (I know they don’t drop.) back pieces, ascended items.

frankly loot needs an overhaul. There’s just way too much junk in this game. It should be scaled way down.

Finally, what would be a good example of progression? What are your goals in playing the game? If the answer is just “to have fun,” then what do you enjoy doing?

I like doing the DE’s from the world bosses to the smallest most obscure. That is fun for me. I’d like drop rewards to go with that. Too much emphasis has been put on world bosses for their chests because frankly no loot drops anywhere. (where you basically spam 1)

I had a blast the other day fighting gargantula with 2 other guys. How awesome would it have been to get loot for that? yeah i got a champ bag but I have never once gotten anything special from a champ bag.

I like the “play your own way system”, but it doesn’t really exist.

Linken.6345:

SHM.7628:

Carighan.6758:

SHM.7628:

2) Does that mean I shouldn’t also want some reward and a feeling of progression?

Probably not, no. Especially on the second part. At it’s underlying core the game just feels to never have been designed with “progression” in mind.
They added some systems later which can work in that way, sure. Achievement point rewards, ascended gear, skin bank, WXP levels.

But if you look back at the core of the game, no, the game was designed to be enjoyable for itself, not for some artificial motivation method. Whether it is or not, that’s a different issue ofc. :P

I actually like the game but it’s still not enough over time. If there is no meaningful progression then its just a grind. (not fun)

I like a lot of the content. (not all of it) There needs to be a reward for it or its eventually just tedium.

Oddly enough, I don’t think shortage of maps or DE’s are the problem. There’s a ton of map and events. I don’t even want an expansion. Reward me for what is there.

But you are getting rewarded at every turn with exp and loot so what more do you want man?

karma is OK. (although I don’t need any)The loot has been junk for me. XP? That is an odd one. when I needed it it was sparse, now I get tons and it’s all but useless to me.

Olvendred.3027:

SHM.7628:

Do you see why I wrote that now? Every post so far has been to tell me I am wrong. really? I wrote nothing anyone can agree on? Not one thing I said had any validity at all? I’m not unreasonable, the post is being trolled.

So anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. It’s not at all possible that other people have reasonable opinions that are different to your own. Hmm…

Anyway. Play because you enjoy playing. Don’t play because you get given pixel that only exist in the context of the thing you don’t enjoy playing that much. The rewards for open-world PvE are pretty good, given the difficulty and effort involved.

You don’t feel rewarded by things like blues and greens? Well, you wouldn’t feel rewarded by rares and exotics either, if they were dropping so much in the open world that casual players would frequently get them. Because all the players with more time for farming would be getting them in far greater quantities. This game is an MMO: that means that rewards have to be balanced against a spectrum of play-styles and play-times.

No, I don’t expect everyone to agree with everything i say. I am not a child though. I know when a post is getting fair criticism and when its being trolled. However,There wound up being some fair exchanges and some good questions on here too. I very much appreciate that.

Blues and greens are essentially junk. Useful while leveling but that is about it. You can get on the luck treadmill and salvage a million of them in hopes of reaching 300 MF too.

Golds can be salvaged, used for skins, or used in the MF. I’d like to see them salvage into something a little more useful more often.

SHM.7628:

I like a lot of the content. (not all of it) There needs to be a reward for it or its eventually just tedium.

Most multiplayer-centric games disagree. Except the ones already built completely around artificial motivation like CoD or BF.
And MMOs are very much multiplayer-centric, so it wouldn’t be absurd to sell them for their gameplay instead of their grind-rewards.

SHM.7628:

felessan.9587:

SHM.7628:

Preface: I am not by anymeans harcore. I’ve leveled 10 toons, they are in exotics and ascened trinkets.

First, there ARE bosses that drop unique armor/weapon sets – Tequatl and Triple Trouble both have (small) chances to drop unique Ascended items. It sounds like you don’t like the RNG though, so maybe you’re looking for something like the dungeon armor? Yes, it only drops from dungeons or PvP, though folks in various threads have offered suggestions on mixing that up. Or maybe the Silverwastes’ Luminous armor, which is exclusively PvE and not excessively grindy? Last season, Scarlet had a chance to drop Scarlet’s Kiss and Scarlet’s Rainbow – the only mega-amazing drop I’ve ever looted.

Second, what would be an example of good/special loot, in your mind? Does it need to have a fancy skin? Be expensive? How should it be earned? Clearly “a chance” to drop from a boss isn’t enough. Would you prefer a reward track? I certainly would! Try not to use a precursor as an example, since that’s been discussed ad nauseum.

Finally, what would be a good example of progression? What are your goals in playing the game? If the answer is just “to have fun,” then what do you enjoy doing?

You asked some good questions and made some good points.

what would be an example of good/special loot, in your mind? Does it need to have a fancy skin? Be expensive?

Yes to all. Frankly, I think almost all of the skins are mediocre in this game. If it was an especially nice looking skin, it would likely be valuable. It might also be valuable if it were part of a coveted set. A valuable peice, like a precursor or an expensive upgrade, craftinging mat, or even a dye. (I know they don’t drop.) back pieces, ascended items.

frankly loot needs an overhaul. There’s just way too much junk in this game. It should be scaled way down.

Finally, what would be a good example of progression? What are your goals in playing the game? If the answer is just “to have fun,” then what do you enjoy doing?

I like doing the DE’s from the world bosses to the smallest most obscure. That is fun for me. I’d like drop rewards to go with that. Too much emphasis has been put on world bosses for their chests because frankly no loot drops anywhere. (where you basically spam 1)

I had a blast the other day fighting gargantula with 2 other guys. How awesome would it have been to get loot for that? yeah i got a champ bag but I have never once gotten anything special from a champ bag.

I like the “play your own way system”, but it doesn’t really exist.

If you think almost all the skins are mediocre in this game then what sort of skins are you looking for that this game doesn’t supply. Because the skins range from plain to shiny, from small to outsized. If there is a fair range of skins and what you want isn’t there then maybe you need to detail what exactly would be a fancy skin.

The problem with wanting a valuable skin to drop, if it’s valuable it’s going to be a rare drop and therefore few will get it as a drop. If it’s not rare and many had one, would it still be part of a coveted set? Even if it still looked the same?

Again, you need to clarify what is a fancy skin and how to keep them as something coveted if they are a common enough drop that many have them.

i agree with op, this game are missing something special, onestly i will log sometime for do some fractal, is the only pve content with some challenge…. i hope something good with raids, but i know i will be disappointed on it, i’ve partecipated on the “raid topic” but i’ve just saw devs avoid some argoument and make it grow others will be doesent change anything to this game… my opinion is devs doesent wanna make different content, with different purpose, but keep to make LS, farming events and zerk pve content… i love this game, but this stuff it ruin it imho…
i had real friend, in game friend and guild mate, left this game for this, w/o writing anything on forum, because “nothing will change” and they are right, because nothing will change

i wrote posts and topic trying to explain my opinion, someone have my ideas and others (meta and farm lover) will write to me as a devil will wanna change they beloved game, and say “why r u gonna play this game, just leave and play to another one” …. i wrote i wanna MORE option not only my option but its ever useless… and btw devs never say a word on this topics (mine or others)
i’ve lose any hope to see something more with this game, so i play when i want, then i will not play for a while, i’ve saw other game will be released (i hope) in 2015, when they will be i will buy and maybe i will never back there…. i’m tired to waste my time trying to make this game better…. i know i’m no one, but there is alot of “no one” like me

Astral Projections.7320:

SHM.7628:

felessan.9587:

SHM.7628:

Preface: I am not by anymeans harcore. I’ve leveled 10 toons, they are in exotics and ascened trinkets.

First, there ARE bosses that drop unique armor/weapon sets – Tequatl and Triple Trouble both have (small) chances to drop unique Ascended items. It sounds like you don’t like the RNG though, so maybe you’re looking for something like the dungeon armor? Yes, it only drops from dungeons or PvP, though folks in various threads have offered suggestions on mixing that up. Or maybe the Silverwastes’ Luminous armor, which is exclusively PvE and not excessively grindy? Last season, Scarlet had a chance to drop Scarlet’s Kiss and Scarlet’s Rainbow – the only mega-amazing drop I’ve ever looted.

Second, what would be an example of good/special loot, in your mind? Does it need to have a fancy skin? Be expensive? How should it be earned? Clearly “a chance” to drop from a boss isn’t enough. Would you prefer a reward track? I certainly would! Try not to use a precursor as an example, since that’s been discussed ad nauseum.

Finally, what would be a good example of progression? What are your goals in playing the game? If the answer is just “to have fun,” then what do you enjoy doing?

You asked some good questions and made some good points.

what would be an example of good/special loot, in your mind? Does it need to have a fancy skin? Be expensive?

Yes to all. Frankly, I think almost all of the skins are mediocre in this game. If it was an especially nice looking skin, it would likely be valuable. It might also be valuable if it were part of a coveted set. A valuable peice, like a precursor or an expensive upgrade, craftinging mat, or even a dye. (I know they don’t drop.) back pieces, ascended items.

frankly loot needs an overhaul. There’s just way too much junk in this game. It should be scaled way down.

Finally, what would be a good example of progression? What are your goals in playing the game? If the answer is just “to have fun,” then what do you enjoy doing?

I like doing the DE’s from the world bosses to the smallest most obscure. That is fun for me. I’d like drop rewards to go with that. Too much emphasis has been put on world bosses for their chests because frankly no loot drops anywhere. (where you basically spam 1)

I had a blast the other day fighting gargantula with 2 other guys. How awesome would it have been to get loot for that? yeah i got a champ bag but I have never once gotten anything special from a champ bag.

I like the “play your own way system”, but it doesn’t really exist.

If you think almost all the skins are mediocre in this game then what sort of skins are you looking for that this game doesn’t supply. Because the skins range from plain to shiny, from small to outsized. If there is a fair range of skins and what you want isn’t there then maybe you need to detail what exactly would be a fancy skin.

The problem with wanting a valuable skin to drop, if it’s valuable it’s going to be a rare drop and therefore few will get it as a drop. If it’s not rare and many had one, would it still be part of a coveted set? Even if it still looked the same?

Again, you need to clarify what is a fancy skin and how to keep them as something coveted if they are a common enough drop that many have them.

Negative, not going to explain myself any further. There’s been plenty of MMO’s before this one. You don’t need a thesis on loot drops. Nor does one need a PHD to figure it out.

The junk needs to be largely removed. A decent percent for loot to drop needs to drop from kills. (rather than an infinitesimal one.) Specialized pieces/sets should fall from bosses and chests.

If they want to move go another direction, they can add armor, weapon, and upgrade traders who can sell you this stuff. This way you can buy a set you with stats and upgrades you like. That won’t make the game more interesting to play but it would probably add some build diversity.

Anet can work out the details. The devs are a very bright and gifted group of individuals.

There are two ways to play any game.

The fun – play the game on my terms and do as good as I can while retaining freedom of doing what I want, when I want it and playing for as long as I want to.

The serious – play the game with set goals in mind. Do what you need to achieve those goals as fast as possible and play for as long as you possibly can without the game eating too much of your life.

If you’re in the first category you’re not going to get items that were designed to be obtained by people in the first category in 1-3 years.
If you were in the second category you’d already have the item.

There’s a trade off :

You work for it or you wait for it. There’s no in-between.
Actually there is one – you can pay for it and in that case Anet makes some money and you can get your shiny.

Either way – you have to put in something to get something. You can’t play in an extremely casual manner and in a very narrow spectrum of the game and expect to obtain the game’s most “prestigious” items.

Also the “fought an obscure boss with 2 people and it was super fun” experience would instantly disappear the moment any meaningful loot was associated with said boss.

The zerg would find and smash the boss over and over for the rewards. Just look at some DEs that have collection-related rewards.

Harper.4173:

There are two ways to play any game.

The fun – play the game on my terms and do as good as I can while retaining freedom of doing what I want, when I want it and playing for as long as I want to.

The serious – play the game with set goals in mind. Do what you need to achieve those goals as fast as possible and play for as long as you possibly can without the game eating too much of your life.

If you’re in the first category you’re not going to get items that were designed to be obtained by people in the first category in 1-3 years.
If you were in the second category you’d already have the item.

There’s a trade off :

You work for it or you wait for it. There’s no in-between.
Actually there is one – you can pay for it and in that case Anet makes some money and you can get your shiny.

Either way – you have to put in something to get something. You can’t play in an extremely casual manner and in a very narrow spectrum of the game and expect to obtain the game’s most “prestigious” items.

Also the “fought an obscure boss with 2 people and it was super fun” experience would instantly disappear the moment any meaningful loot was associated with said boss.

The zerg would find and smash the boss over and over for the rewards. Just look at some DEs that have collection-related rewards.

Harper, If you think its only about the loot then you probably missed the point of my post entirely. It’s about making the game more rich and rewarding Paying for more rewards would not make the game more fun for me. Neither would log in rewards.

I’m fine with some things in game being beyond my grasp or being long term goals. I don’t think it’s about playing longer. Frankly, I play too much already.

SHM.7628:

Why play if there’s no fruit?

You pretty much answered you’re own questions right there.

I enjoy playing the game, but it is quite obvious from your posts(this one and previous ones) that you do not.

I am not sure what you think the game should become to satisfy your needs.
Play a game for entertainment and fun, not for constant frustration at unachievable goals that you have set for yourself.

I would suggest finding a game that suits your time constraints better.

I know you don’t want to hear that “find a game that you enjoy” stuff, but it is very, very obvious that you’ll never get the sort of entertainment from this game that you’re looking for. I really don’t know what it is that you’re looking for in an mmorpg, but it most certainly does not exist for you in GW2. Most of your posts here are of a very negative nature, so it is very clear that you don’t like this game much.

No matter how bright and gifted you think the developers of this game might be, they aren’t going to change the game to suit your needs specifically, as they then risk alienating a ton of other players who like the game just as it is(tweaks not withstanding).

Best of luck finding that game that fits you! And I seriously do mean that. It is obvious that what you want and/or need in a game does not lie in GW2 as it currently exists.

I skipped parts of the thread, I apologize if my answer is just a reiteration.
I get some of your complaints. I am by no means someone with deep insight into game development but GW2 is focused around Gold. Most important items or skins can be bought with Gold and one reason for this game design is probably the Gem Store. If Gems (=real money) would only buy you Gem Store items, with no means of converting real money into ingame currency, the incentive to buy said Gems would be a lot smaller.
So in my opinion (!) this leads to the reward design that you criticized. Instead of handing out “epic loot” based primarily on your accomplishments, they’re often purchasable. In other instances I blame it on the lackluster implementation of RNG. It is true that killing mobs is almost never a good way to get best in slot equipment. In Fractals you’re either hoping for chest RNG or skin RNG. I dungeons you farm the tokens. World bosses just give you guaranteed rares + lots of RNG.

I totally get your frustration in that regard. Maybe you’re coming from the same (MMO)RPG background as I do and it might feel strange how this game hands out rewards. At the end of the day, a lot of the other posters are right when they say: Learn to live with it or move on to another game. The changes you might be hoping for are so fundamental that I can’t see any way in which they might ever be implemented.

Teon.5168:

SHM.7628:

Why play if there’s no fruit?

No matter how bright and gifted you think the developers of this game might be, they aren’t going to change the game to suit your needs specifically, as they then risk alienating a ton of other players who like the game just as it is(tweaks not withstanding).

Best of luck finding that game that fits you! And I seriously do mean that. It is obvious that what you want and/or need in a game does not lie in GW2 as it currently exists.

I never expected the Devs to change the game specifically for me. The forums are a place of ideas. I put a lot of my ideas out there on how to make the game better because
I like the game. What you call “negativity” is my desire to see a improvements.

I am not sure how my suggestions, or any implemented changes would alienate other players. There certainly have been massive changes in the past. (ex-the MF system, Karma, dailies, etc were completely overhauled) I suppose those overhauls didn’t upset you because Anet did them rather than a player suggesting them? You sound very much like a white knight to me.

You wish me well in a another game. What I hear is: “I like the game exactly how it is (unless the devs change it then I’ll love that) so go away.”

Still, I will probably take your advice and go away at least for a while. I’m due for a break. The game is stale for the reasons I stated. perhaps I’ll revisit it later to check for changes, perhaps not.

Veydar.5017:

I totally get your frustration in that regard. Maybe you’re coming from the same (MMO)RPG background as I do and it might feel strange how this game hands out rewards. At the end of the day, a lot of the other posters are right when they say: Learn to live with it or move on to another game. The changes you might be hoping for are so fundamental that I can’t see any way in which they might ever be implemented.

I’ll say it one last time. This post is not specifically about drops and rewards. It’s about purpose. Drops and loot just so happen to be an effective means to that end.

After playing so long you need a purpose, because as we both know without purpose the server population would not exist. It is purpose that created us. Purpose that connects us, that pulls us, that guides us, that drives us. It is purpose that defines us. Purpose that binds us. We are here making suggestion on these forums because of you Anet, to take back from you what you tried to take from players of the game……..purpose.

so wait, are you looking for vertical progression? That’s not in GW2. 10 toons and nothing but open world PvE mostly? good for you. I could say that I do the same, but occasionally I do go on a dungeon running trek, and do WvW, craft.

Technically you actually can do nothing but PvE open world content and get everything you want , except for dungeon and pvp skins.

All content other than open world PvE is naturally harder in difficulty and deserves to give exclusive rewards. Its called a challenge, you don’t have to do them , but if you do you can get something really cool. Granted things in GW2 that are considered a challenge to the devs are actually things that you just have to think a tiny bit on.

SHM.7628:

Teon.5168:

SHM.7628:

Why play if there’s no fruit?

No matter how bright and gifted you think the developers of this game might be, they aren’t going to change the game to suit your needs specifically, as they then risk alienating a ton of other players who like the game just as it is(tweaks not withstanding).

Best of luck finding that game that fits you! And I seriously do mean that. It is obvious that what you want and/or need in a game does not lie in GW2 as it currently exists.

I never expected the Devs to change the game specifically for me. The forums are a place of ideas. I put a lot of my ideas out there on how to make the game better because
I like the game. What you call “negativity” is my desire to see a improvements.

I am not sure how my suggestions, or any implemented changes would alienate other players. There certainly have been massive changes in the past. (ex-the MF system, Karma, dailies, etc were completely overhauled) I suppose those overhauls didn’t upset you because Anet did them rather than a player suggesting them? You sound very much like a white knight to me.

You wish me well in a another game. What I hear is: “I like the game exactly how it is (unless the devs change it then I’ll love that) so go away.”

Still, I will probably take your advice and go away at least for a while. I’m due for a break. The game is stale for the reasons I stated. perhaps I’ll revisit it later to check for changes, perhaps not.

Certainly the response I expected. I disagree with you, therefore I am a supposed white knight……and then you go on and completely change the meaning of my post.

Well done.

At least you’re predictable in your responses.

Have you ever thought……“maybe it is not the game”?

Teon.5168:

SHM.7628:

Teon.5168:

SHM.7628:

Why play if there’s no fruit?

No matter how bright and gifted you think the developers of this game might be, they aren’t going to change the game to suit your needs specifically, as they then risk alienating a ton of other players who like the game just as it is(tweaks not withstanding).

Best of luck finding that game that fits you! And I seriously do mean that. It is obvious that what you want and/or need in a game does not lie in GW2 as it currently exists.

I never expected the Devs to change the game specifically for me. The forums are a place of ideas. I put a lot of my ideas out there on how to make the game better because
I like the game. What you call “negativity” is my desire to see a improvements.

I am not sure how my suggestions, or any implemented changes would alienate other players. There certainly have been massive changes in the past. (ex-the MF system, Karma, dailies, etc were completely overhauled) I suppose those overhauls didn’t upset you because Anet did them rather than a player suggesting them? You sound very much like a white knight to me.

You wish me well in a another game. What I hear is: “I like the game exactly how it is (unless the devs change it then I’ll love that) so go away.”

Still, I will probably take your advice and go away at least for a while. I’m due for a break. The game is stale for the reasons I stated. perhaps I’ll revisit it later to check for changes, perhaps not.

Certainly the response I expected. I disagree with you, therefore I am a supposed white knight……and then you go on and completely change the meaning of my post.

Well done.

At least you’re predictable in your responses.

Have you ever thought……“maybe it is not the game”?

Youre reply was the most predicatble of all. How about you give an area of the game that needs improvement? or make a positive suggestion?

Go away is not constructive feedback.