Guild Wars 2

Having played quite a few mmo’s over the years, I was somewhat suprised when gw2 decided to run without a dedicated healer class (closest it comes is ele water/earth build).
Played the game on and off for last few months and I am completely sold oApa dynamic localized quest and map interaction system. gw2 team have got it spot on with regards to dificulty etc.

Sadly though I have just completed several CM runs, and this is where my issue lies. All of the runs seemed to lack cohesion and purpose. The main tank never really tanked (no fault on their part). There was never any real control of aggro and mobs.
All of the runs sort of degenarated into a spam fest. Sure there were times when tactics were kind of useful. But the bottom line ended up in spam killing mobs and trying not to die.

I completely understand that the game has been built around the idea that healers are not a part of the game mechanics and i am in no way suggesting that they should be.
What i am saying is that by the absense of a dedi healer and proper tank, dungeons are merely a button mashing spam fest.

toidi.1690:

I completely understand that the game has been built around the idea that healers are not a part of the game mechanics and i am in no way suggesting that they should be.
What i am saying is that by the absense of a dedi healer and proper tank, dungeons are merely a button mashing spam fest.

Ho ho. Subject Alpha and Giant Lupi wants to say hi to you.

Heck, I’d like to see you (or anyone) try to tank SSS from CM. The point is not to “tank.” but to avoid damage, and I think you’re missing the point entirely.

A wise person once said “WoW is a science, GW2 is an art”. Meditate on that for a bit and I think you’ll see where you’re going wrong

There are no set roles, but anyone who read anything about GW2 prior to purchasing it KNOWs this.

NO main TANK
NO main HEALS
NO main CC

Did you spend anytime reading about GW2 prior to purchasing it ?
Also, learn to dodge in dungeons.

Problem with GW2 dungeons is they lack any sense of mechanics, its just overtuned mobs and spammy burst spells, every single pack. And since theres no trinity, chaos format takes over for you, essentially making it so that any trap or mob burst can 1 shot you regardless of class.

PuG runs will feel like spamfests, yes. Cause there is no coordination or proper setups before fights. No one thinks about bringing skills to work together or buffs to help out the whole group. They are just trying to get a random group together, complete the dungeon, and be off on their merry way.

Running with friends or a guild is where the dungeons become better. Also finding people that actually know how to play their class and use mechanics makes it that much more better as well. That is when people actually bring the proper skills for group work, dodge when needed and know when to switch weapons to keep the heat off. Have a well-taught group makes all the difference over a PuG.

And like others have already said, there is no main tank or heals like in other MMOs. There is no threat generation or taunts to keep aggro. The game is based around supporting each other through control, support, and damage, not tank, healer, and dps.

From my view point, this isnt every other mmo. Most mmos the mechanics of the boss are the same each time you farm the dungeon making the dungeon a mindless set of routine encounters, spilling out the same dribble. You dont really have to be prepared most things that happen in there will have a counter easily done. In GW2, you dont have that you have to be prepared. Say last time you had a couple of players that knew what they were doing and used their crowd control spells to controll the boss (somewhat), it is goiing to be alot different from a group purely trying to zerg. Each encounter can be a new encounter depending on your group make up.

Yeah, doing dungeon with a competent group gives you very different and more rewarding experience.

With random low-skilled people it’s unenjoyable chaos most of the time.

Isslair.4908:

Yeah, doing dungeon with a competent group gives you very different and more rewarding experience.

With random low-skilled people it’s unenjoyable chaos most of the time.

Exactly…… you get it, you really get it

Isslair.4908:

Yeah, doing dungeon with a competent group gives you very different and more rewarding experience.

With random low-skilled people it’s unenjoyable chaos most of the time.

Yep.

Unfortunately, most low-skilled players just want to blame the game and other people for their incompetence.

Isslair.4908:

Yeah, doing dungeon with a competent group gives you very different and more rewarding experience.

With random low-skilled people it’s unenjoyable chaos most of the time.

+1

@OP
Normally I don’t say things like that, but in this case, it actually is true: You are doing it wrong.
In your case it’s clearly that you are still thinking in roles like Healer, Tank or DPS. GW2 doesn’t know any of them. In order to control the fight you have to adapt to it, you can’t just through in a Tank, some heals and CC and dominate the mobs, that doesn’t work. If your fights become a spam fest your group lacks tactics and teamwork.

deborah.2068:

From my view point, this isnt every other mmo. Most mmos the mechanics of the boss are the same each time you farm the dungeon making the dungeon a mindless set of routine encounters, spilling out the same dribble. You dont really have to be prepared most things that happen in there will have a counter easily done. In GW2, you dont have that you have to be prepared. Say last time you had a couple of players that knew what they were doing and used their crowd control spells to controll the boss (somewhat), it is goiing to be alot different from a group purely trying to zerg. Each encounter can be a new encounter depending on your group make up.

It would be great if that were possible, but in a 5-man group, a champion gets 5 stacks of defiant any time someone inflicts CC. Most CC lasts for 1-2 seconds with a 40+ second cooldown.

Much prefer fighting veterans. Its not like you can chain CC them, but it feels more how it was intended to be.

There are no Tank Roles or Healer Roles.
I have wrote an artical regarding the Combat System and Mechanics.

I recomend you guys to check it out:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/GW2-Combat-system-101/first#post896756

Servanin.5021:

deborah.2068:

From my view point, this isnt every other mmo. Most mmos the mechanics of the boss are the same each time you farm the dungeon making the dungeon a mindless set of routine encounters, spilling out the same dribble. You dont really have to be prepared most things that happen in there will have a counter easily done. In GW2, you dont have that you have to be prepared. Say last time you had a couple of players that knew what they were doing and used their crowd control spells to controll the boss (somewhat), it is goiing to be alot different from a group purely trying to zerg. Each encounter can be a new encounter depending on your group make up.

It would be great if that were possible, but in a 5-man group, a champion gets 5 stacks of defiant any time someone inflicts CC. Most CC lasts for 1-2 seconds with a 40+ second cooldown.

Much prefer fighting veterans. Its not like you can chain CC them, but it feels more how it was intended to be.

I m not a dungeon runner, have stepped into maybe two dungeons but I have read the strat book, played outside in the world and read the forums and what I wote is just what I saw as a old raider. I can make suggestions as to such if you are running with a more structured group, set up a rotation of ccs, use them spareingly, meaning use them as needed, if some is too close. If its just one boss try ping ponging such as one takes the aggro and runs then someone else picks it up and go back and forth. Most of these ideas are old tho, used when I would pick up groups in WOW and we didnt have a holy trinity makeup. The most fun night I had there was doing slave pens during BC with 3 hunters, me a shadow priest, and a fresh 70 pally healer with no gear. We used our strengths and all we had.so anything is possible, if you think ir thru.These days I only run with family and hubby is skilled and geared enough that he pretty much can carry us. Even me cuz I think is fun to play a glass cannon.

P.S. I think it comes down to if your thinking inside the box or outside the box. Most MMOs are structered with not alot of give, GW2 is nothing but give I would definately experiment with alot of different options. But that would also depend on your group knowing their toon and all the abilities the toon offers.

To be frank, theres nothing wrong with having no trinity. There are a ton of games that do it fine – Monster hunters, Vindictus, God Eaters, Phantasy Star off the top of my head.

GW2 wasn’t really designed for that though. Its less of an co-operative ARPG, and more of a “hotkey” RPG where you are allowed to swing a melee weapon when you aren’t in melee range, where they removed the trinity.

Mobs still have unchoreographed, hard hitting auto-attacks. Thats a trait of an RPG, not an action game.

toidi.1690:

Having played quite a few mmo’s over the years, I was somewhat suprised when gw2 decided to run without a dedicated healer class (closest it comes is ele water/earth build).
Played the game on and off for last few months and I am completely sold oApa dynamic localized quest and map interaction system. gw2 team have got it spot on with regards to dificulty etc.

Sadly though I have just completed several CM runs, and this is where my issue lies. All of the runs seemed to lack cohesion and purpose. The main tank never really tanked (no fault on their part). There was never any real control of aggro and mobs.
All of the runs sort of degenarated into a spam fest. Sure there were times when tactics were kind of useful. But the bottom line ended up in spam killing mobs and trying not to die.

I completely understand that the game has been built around the idea that healers are not a part of the game mechanics and i am in no way suggesting that they should be.
What i am saying is that by the absense of a dedi healer and proper tank, dungeons are merely a button mashing spam fest.

Yup. And the dpsers will never understand the feeling. Their gameplay didn’t change, only ours did. And I just can’t stand dungeons in this game. Doesn’t matter how organised or good your group is. Random aggro → random mobs/bosses → random fight.

Isslair.4908:

Yeah, doing dungeon with a competent group gives you very different and more rewarding experience.

With random low-skilled people it’s unenjoyable chaos most of the time.

What I tell people is GW2 is sorta equivalent to either 5 man Arena PvP or something like the PvP fight in Trial of Champions.

No mob is going to just ‘sit’ on what WoW calls a tank because they are taunting it or generating agro while others beat on it. It’s going to run around and try to take out people. Just like in PvP, people don’t ‘sit’ on someone unless they are trying to burst them down, then they switch and control, etc. That is basically as close to real combat you are going to get in fantasy.

That’s why GW2 has dodging and ‘control’ and ‘support’ for helping others.

The objective here isn’t someone just ‘sitting/tanking’ while someone else spams heals that person. People just cannot break out of that mechanic..it’s kinda sad.

And yes, running with a team that specs/traits for dungeon runs is vastly different then a pug 5 man.

In this game you are in charge of your own survivability, this is the main thing, your survivability doesn’t depend on someone else but it is your responsibility. This is something anyone planning to play in group should understand, and it is obvious the op missed that point. If you make a lot of group parties like dungeons you’ll see that bad groups fail because each member is enable to deal with his own survivability and blame other for his own failures. You can help other member but cannot do the job for them. If you spam your skill and don’t understand what each effect is doing, then good luck in your handovers, you’ll really need it. Op it’s pretty clear you don’t understand at all what group play is about in this game. Stop thinking about your beloved trinity, concentrate on your character job, which is stay alive and help your group go through whatever it is confronted to as fast and efficiently as you can, then you’ll really begin to play the game as you should, rather than as you would like to.

TWMagimay.9057:

Yup. And the dpsers will never understand the feeling. Their gameplay didn’t change, only ours did. And I just can’t stand dungeons in this game. Doesn’t matter how organised or good your group is. Random aggro -> random mobs/bosses -> random fight.

Not really, there’s a lot you can do.

Wall of Reflection for Guardian is a LONG duration skill that completely shuts down pretty much every ranged attack, EVEN BOSSES!

Line of Warding can block off a melee train of mobs for a good duration, as can Ring of Warding and Sanctuary. Sanctuary can actually stunlock enemies for it’s entire duration if you pin them against the wall…and it even works against bosses.

Other classes also have abilities that prove a ton of support. My necromancer can permanently maintain Chilled on a single enemy, while also spreading it to nearby enemies with Epidemic.

Other classes can indefinitely maintain weakness, which makes all non-critical hits do 50% damage, even works against bosses. My Guardian can also maintain Protection on everyone close to the enemies, further reducing damage by 33%.

Just because you’re not playing health bar whack-a-mole while your tank holds all of the enemies doesn’t mean there is no strategy and it doesn’t mean it is just a zerg to the death.

To add onto that though, yes, healing doesn’t work. If you’re going into a dungeon thinking that you’re just going to focus on making other player’s health bars go up, you’re just wasting your time as well as the rest of the team’s. Healing doesn’t really work, regeneration isn’t going to save people standing in AoEs, and most other sources of healing are pretty weak, comparatively.

You need to focus on damage prevention and mitigation rather than damage recovery.

Have you looked at the potential combo fields have? Alone, you might be able to pop off a cool combo for 3 might stacks or some extra healing, or aoe blindness, but in a coordinated group, hitting 25 might stacks from a fire field, or fully healing a party from a water field is not impossible. You have a whole lot of teamwork and organization in utilizing combo fields properly. There is also the coordination in handling defiance stacks, so that you don’t completely waste your cc, and can interrupt strong attacks.

Also, in your opening post, you mention “the main tank”. This is the completely wrong mindset. It implies you believe you don’t have to care what the mobs are doing, since you believe they’ll be attacking the “main tank” instead of you. No one person can take all the hits, even if they wanted and tried to. Everyone has to be able to both help eachother and fend for themselves.

Dungeons are being renamed in the next patch to “DARB” or “Die and run back!” …it’s the new …err… tactics!

Snowy.9580:

Dungeons are being renamed in the next patch to “DARB” or “Die and run back!” …it’s the new …err… tactics!

Been the leading strategy since BWE for groups that have no clue what they’re doing.

Apathy.6430:

Not really, there’s a lot you can do.

Wall of Reflection for Guardian is a LONG duration skill that completely shuts down pretty much every ranged attack, EVEN BOSSES!

Line of Warding can block off a melee train of mobs for a good duration, as can Ring of Warding and Sanctuary. Sanctuary can actually stunlock enemies for it’s entire duration if you pin them against the wall…and it even works against bosses.

Other classes also have abilities that prove a ton of support. My necromancer can permanently maintain Chilled on a single enemy, while also spreading it to nearby enemies with Epidemic.

Other classes can indefinitely maintain weakness, which makes all non-critical hits do 50% damage, even works against bosses. My Guardian can also maintain Protection on everyone close to the enemies, further reducing damage by 33%.

Just because you’re not playing health bar whack-a-mole while your tank holds all of the enemies doesn’t mean there is no strategy and it doesn’t mean it is just a zerg to the death.

Again. Random aggro → random mobs/bosses → random dungeon runs.

What is health bar whack-a-mole? Is that what dpsers imagine a healer does?

TWMagimay.9057:

Again. Random aggro -> random mobs/bosses -> random dungeon runs.

Just…no.

Just because you don’t understand, don’t assume there’s no order to the chaos.

deborah.2068:

From my view point, this isnt every other mmo. Most mmos the mechanics of the boss are the same each time you farm the dungeon making the dungeon a mindless set of routine encounters, spilling out the same dribble. You dont really have to be prepared most things that happen in there will have a counter easily done. In GW2, you dont have that you have to be prepared. Say last time you had a couple of players that knew what they were doing and used their crowd control spells to controll the boss (somewhat), it is goiing to be alot different from a group purely trying to zerg. Each encounter can be a new encounter depending on your group make up.

Its the same routine dungeon system you have in other mmo’s its just the learning curve might be a little steeper with no set roles but after the 3rd or 4th trip through the dungeon its same ole same ole.

@Snowy & TWMagimay
Just cause you and/or the players you are doing dungeons with have no clue what the hell they are doing doesn’t mean that the system is bad. There is a lot of room for different tactics and team play, in fact you need it to not just die and run back from the way point. It’s really as easy as that, if you die you or your team doing something wrong.

OP, you must have been an awful healer in classic MMOs. You couldn’t manage healing more people than just tank? Too bad. As classic healer I could always play with my party’s health bars and throw buffs/shields randomly, not to those who need, it’s all about quickness

The OP may miss the point as there is no trinity in GW2. On the other hand I do think that by doing away the trinity, the game lacks a lot of complexity and teamplay elements.

So there are no tanks and healers. Everybody is basically dps with some support options or support with some dps options and then some are pure dps. That’s about what you see.

It is more important to learn to dodge and target the same target and ress people that are down (not defeated). Once defeated you ress at the waypoint. Anything else is fluff. It’s more about learning the dungeons than your class because in the end you need to do roughly the same no matter which class you play.

Gehenna.3625:

It is more important to learn to dodge and target the same target and ress people that are down (not defeated). Once defeated you ress at the waypoint. Anything else is fluff. It’s more about learning the dungeons than your class because in the end you need to do roughly the same no matter which class you play.

I don’t know, my Necro feels vastly different in dungeons than my Guardian.

Guardian is all about being in melee range at all times to maintain protection and might on everyone while looking for good opportunities to throw up a Wall of Reflection to shutdown ranged mobs for pretty much the rest of the fight. There’s also the stopping of melee trains.

Necro is admittedly a lot less versatile, but it still has unique features compared to my Guardian. Spectral Grasp is awesome for pulling single mobs by themselves, interrupting big spells, and long chill. Swapping weapon sets and popping in and out of Death Shroud to keep melee bosses permanently Chilled is also pretty awesome. And of course, there’s fear to interrupt big spells as well.

In terms of button mashing, I think GW2 is better than other games for that.

In Rift, if I was tanking I gather up the mobs and go thru my button sequence. If I was healing, I pushed the same certain buttons in sequence, every 15 sec Radiant Spores… For DPS it was the same sort of thing, press thru your macros and cooldowns, don’t stand in fire and mash your buttons for max dps output.

GW2, it’s much less common to have a fight where you just stand and deliver. It can be intense, but I’m not actually mashing buttons anything like most of the other mmos I played, and have what feels like a lot fewer options of buttons to mash.

Teamwork really makes or breaks it.
I did a PUG for a dungeon yesterday cuz I felt sorry for these people /m LF1M for forever. It was a horrible group, decently nice people but just horrible in terms of gameplay. We even wiped, twice, and this was CM. People weren’t even fighting in the same room. At the end people said “that was a great run!” and stuff like that, but I think we were all thinking “I’m never setting foot outside my guild ever again.” Teammates dodging away from aoe heals, standing to eat the same attack over and over, never using combo fields, hello condition removal?

In a non-teamwork party, GW2 dungeons are miserable. It’s almost as big as the difference between hot-join spvp and a tourny team.

I’ve played games without the trinity, but honestly, I wish I could have actually played this game before dumping $60 into it… It sucks not having a convenient friend in the game the only weekend they decided to let trials exist…

I honestly came to the game expecting it to be more like those games, where you don’t really have a tank or a healer, but you had the abilities of a tank and healer… Where you could shield yourself to prevent damage while healing yourself and doing damage in between. While there is a sense of that, like switching to a shield to block an attack then going back to your 2h, it just feels way too bland, and too much of it is rolling around or letting something chase you while other people kill it.

But that’s just me though, I’m a bigger fan of ability based mitigation than the dodge everything approach. Dodging should be a part of the game, but not in the excess that it is now, I just think it’s more fun when you’re planning around the fact that you’re going to get hit, so how are you going to keep yourself alive and be able to live through the next one that comes?

they did say they are redoing all existing dungeons.
because now, outside few fractals and some parts of coe, these dungeons are the worst I have ever been in.

It may not seem so at first sight but there is definitely strategy in group play. Just because the roles aren’t pre-defined like they are in other game it doesn’t mean they don’t exist, it just means that you as the player need to define your own role. Though perhaps I shouldn’t call at a role as much a “style of play”.

It didn’t feel like so at first but as an Elementalist I have seen my character grow to the point where I now feel like that there is actual purpuse to my actions that aren’t limited to spamming. My choice of stats, weapon and utility skills all came after lots of experimentation. Just about every buff I apply and CC I throw out is thought out.

The fact that GW2 has not yet developed a specific meta game is in my mind the game’s biggest victory. THINK ABOUT IT. We’re not forced into specific builds to run dungeons, no one expects us to do some specific thing because of the class we play, people don’t look for a specific class for hours just to play one dungeon.

Isn’t this what we always wanted? Actual choice as opposed to being forced into specific roles dictated by top guilds and theorycrafters?

Actually, GW2 classes are extremely rigid. There are a lot of traits and utility skills that are laughably weak, and a couple that are no-brainer powerful, and thus a lot of builds are centered around those.

Like, theres no such thing as a deep Zeal (power line) guardian because most of it’s traits are terrible. 25 HP per greatsword hit? Buffing symbols when Guardian’s DPS weapons (Greatsword, sword, scepter vs. stationary) have no spammable symbols?

There are a ton with Altruistic healing though.

I get the feeling that this is intentional to give people the illusion of choice, while allowing Anet to keep a careful tab on balancing a few viable specs to try and make GW2 an E-sport.

CrossFire.8037:

And since theres no trinity, chaos format takes over for you

No, it takes over for you.

I’ve come from a game wherein the Trinity wasn’t necessary. There were still roles, but they were much more fluid in design. Exceedingly rare were the scenarios wherein one particular role was ever needed. Sure, there were situations where having a “meatshield” style of Tank around made things easier, but it wasn’t a necessary component for success. Same with Healers. The functions of “support” (healing) and “battlefield management” (tanking) could be filled in any number of ways.

GW2 is several further steps along that design path. Does it go too far, dilute things too much? Maybe. I think an argument could be made there.

But to say it automatically degenerates into a spamfest? No, that’s not been the case for me. There’s no particular tactic or function that’s baked into any particular class, true. That doesn’t mean that the tactics and functions aren’t applicable, though. What it affects is only the traditional dependence on them.

I play with a group that I’ve played with in several other games. Once we get the feel for a situation (which usually requires some tasting of the floor), we tend to dominate it. This is a pretty strong indicator that tactics and synergistic play absolutely do matter in GW2. It just requires a lot more attention and awareness.

Archer.6485:

Isn’t this what we always wanted? Actual choice as opposed to being forced into specific roles dictated by top guilds and theorycrafters?

Indeed. In fact, though at times the combat system is much simpler than GW1, what’s nice is that I don’t need this or that build to succeed, unlike with GW1, in which even with the kindest/most open minded of players, you were almost forced to use established (“effective”) builds to party with others because otherwise the instance was too unforgiving/difficult. I like to be “effective”, but I also like to play with the skills/traits I want, rather than those that the majority uses, even if they do so for a good, logical reason (such as sticking to what “works”, etc.)

I do believe it is often helpful to coordinate perhaps not trait lines, but traits being in use by some party members, in case there’s two or more of one profession, etc. Some can be duplicated no problem but at times it’s theoretically better to diversify what each player can do individually to improve the whole.

That said, far it be from me telling someone how he/she should play his/her character, as in this game playstyle (what REALLY works for the INDIVIDUAL player, not for a theoretical meta-following player) trumps pure number crunching and theorycrafting.

I do “theorycraft”, but it’s “lite” compared to the hardcore, and mostly for myself and anyone who asks-if I can’t have fun with a “proven build”, I can’t be bothered to play it, so I usually come up with them myself, often with borrowed ideas that I modify to suit my builds and personal playstyle taste.

(There’s nothing wrong with theorycrafting itself, IMHO, as long as it doesn’t become a tool for elitism and absolute “effective build” dictatorships.)

Servanin.5021:

Actually, GW2 classes are extremely rigid. There are a lot of traits and utility skills that are laughably weak, and a couple that are no-brainer powerful, and thus a lot of builds are centered around those.

Like, theres no such thing as a deep Zeal (power line) guardian because most of it’s traits are terrible. 25 HP per greatsword hit? Buffing symbols when Guardian’s DPS weapons (Greatsword, sword, scepter vs. stationary) have no spammable symbols?

There are a ton with Altruistic healing though.

I get the feeling that this is intentional to give people the illusion of choice, while allowing Anet to keep a careful tab on balancing a few viable specs to try and make GW2 an E-sport.

IMHO, it’s not an illusion game they are playing with, and the choices are theoretically supposed to be valid (or at least they initially thought they were.) What happens is that many, many players are drawn to what’s “the meta” rather than coming up with solutions to their own problems (in no way am I aiming this towards you, as I don’t know you.) Thus, even though there are many choices, some people go for what’s supposed to be “more powerful/effective”, often ignoring perfectly valid options for themselves (and it’s worse when they believe everybody else should do the same as they do, following an artificial “meta” of what’s supposed to be “the best builds.”)

In short, it’s not that the classes are “rigid”, but that people do not often dare to go against the grain and/or try things for themselves that may work unexpectedly well, even though they may not be common choices (be it because they are supposedly “weak choices”, “not as strong as”, etc.)

I do believe that some of the traits/options we are given need tons of revision in their current state, because even the most devoted roleplayer won’t find use for some traits out there, that are either too weak or have been poorly implemented.

Well, there are things that are a little weird to work with (Aura elementalist, venomancer) that can be effective but aren’t necessarily meta.

Then there are traits that are literally useless and will never see use because of how bad they are, like Zeal’s blind exposure.

Applies 1 stack of vulnerability for 5 seconds whenever you blind a foe.

So, if you try really hard to make it work and use every blind in the class (Greatsword, swap to sword, use virtue of justice off of CD etc.) You might end up with a consistent 1-2% more damage dealt.

There is no “potential” to be gleaned from that, thats just terrible.

tonyl.5063:

I’ve played games without the trinity, but honestly, I wish I could have actually played this game before dumping $60 into it… It sucks not having a convenient friend in the game the only weekend they decided to let trials exist…

I honestly came to the game expecting it to be more like those games, where you don’t really have a tank or a healer, but you had the abilities of a tank and healer… Where you could shield yourself to prevent damage while healing yourself and doing damage in between. While there is a sense of that, like switching to a shield to block an attack then going back to your 2h, it just feels way too bland, and too much of it is rolling around or letting something chase you while other people kill it.

But that’s just me though, I’m a bigger fan of ability based mitigation than the dodge everything approach. Dodging should be a part of the game, but not in the excess that it is now, I just think it’s more fun when you’re planning around the fact that you’re going to get hit, so how are you going to keep yourself alive and be able to live through the next one that comes?

lol..there are tons of abilities that negate attacks from projectile reflection/deflection abilities to blocks to build in evades..if all you do is run and dodge then you should take some time to actually learn the system.

“gw2 from a healers perspective” – First thought, this is not a game for you.

One thing that some people seem to forget is that dungeons are meant to be the hard content and require a lot of group coordination. While PuGs can work for story modes sometimes it still better to go with people you know or who can demonstrate the ability to navigate the dungeon and coordinate the party.

Apathy.6430:

Isslair.4908:

Yeah, doing dungeon with a competent group gives you very different and more rewarding experience.

With random low-skilled people it’s unenjoyable chaos most of the time.

Yep.

Unfortunately, most low-skilled players just want to blame the game and other people for their incompetence.

absolutely! it’s like how ghost rider wasn’t really an awful film. it’s just i was too incompetent and unintelligent to fully grasp its obvious magnificence.

Servanin.5021:

Well, there are things that are a little weird to work with (Aura elementalist, venomancer) that can be effective but aren’t necessarily meta.

Then there are traits that are literally useless and will never see use because of how bad they are, like Zeal’s blind exposure.

Applies 1 stack of vulnerability for 5 seconds whenever you blind a foe.

So, if you try really hard to make it work and use every blind in the class (Greatsword, swap to sword, use virtue of justice off of CD etc.) You might end up with a consistent 1-2% more damage dealt.

There is no “potential” to be gleaned from that, thats just terrible.

I use Radiance’s Blind Exposure a lot, actually. It synergizes well with Sword and Renewed Justice, and in case you are not using signets, the other 5 options are also not that great. So Signet Mastery can be better, but on most ocassions, that little 1% of damage is better over time (especially since it stacks per blind) than those 3 seconds of retaliation every time you use a heal skill with Healer’s Retribution (which is at least 30 seconds with Prayer of Dwayna.) Especially since I am not high DPS, every little bit of % helps in the long run, especially if they are so easy to reapply. I wouldn’t call it terrible, but one of the less bad options on that first Radiance Tier.

There are worse traits than Blind Exposure on the Guardian’s Trait tree, IME. At least some are far less usable than others, and in comparison, BE passes as good enough.

I too come from a healing background, and I was a kitten good one too, not to toot my own horn too much.

But you got to remember, even though there’s no tank/healer there is still support and control. You just need to be able to do all 3, support, control, dps at any given time and be smart enough on the fly to know how you need to be playing in any given situation, and you need to be able to adapt to it on the fly. Also this puts a lot of responsibility on each individual player, to not only fulfill those roles correctly and at the correct times, but also to be in charge of their own health, not having someone else taking care of them. there is much more personal responsibility put on the player in that regard.

It can turn into a button mashing spam fest for lower skilled players who aren’t used to the mechanics yet, but that’s less so at the higher levels of pve group combat.

Honestly, I much prefer this to the standard tank and spank style of other mmos.

Star Ace.5207:

(There’s nothing wrong with theorycrafting itself, IMHO, as long as it doesn’t become a tool for elitism and absolute “effective build” dictatorships.)

Of course, I have nothing against it. In fact I’m usually happy to take advice from theorycrafters or just experienced players. I’m just glad there is very little limitation to what build I can use and still be effective.