gw2 is not balanced for 1 vs 1
skill in a zerg does not matter. The only way to test how skillful you are is to have a 1v1 with a different player. There are plenty of other MMOs that also give different strengths to different classes, however those MMOs somehow don’t get posts saying “it’s just not balanced for 1v1”. I think that it’s great that people are sharing tips between each other and I do think that complaints should continue going – we will achieve better class balance that way.
The only way to test how skillful you are is to have a 1v1 with a different player.
but i also keep hearing (reading) people say (post) that gw2 is not balanced for 1 vs 1 …
so … is that not a bit contradicting?
The only way to test how skillful you are is to have a 1v1 with a different player.
but i also keep hearing (reading) people say (post) that gw2 is not balanced for 1 vs 1 …
so … is that not a bit contradicting?
I simply don’t think that GW2 was not meant for 1v1.
I simply don’t think that GW2 was not meant for 1v1.
but there are certain professions that could be very hard to put down in a 1 vs 1, such as the thief or mesmer.
what do you have to say regarding that? O_O
but there are certain professions that could be very hard to put down in a 1 vs 1, such as the thief or mesmer.
what do you have to say regarding that? O_O
practice, perfect your build and point out on the forums if you think that the class needs better balancing.
A lot of classes have weak points – for example mesmer doesn’t have a lot of condition removal even though he can send it back to you on some builds. Mesmer doesn’t have any movement speed.
Most thieves build squishy. Build to survive their initial attack and counter it immediately afterwards.
(edited by Mirta.5029)
Professions and abilities are diverse in this game, as needed both for a meaningful PvE experience and to make field/finisher nontrivial. Synergies between diverse Professions are essential to “real” PvE games.
Balancing for 1v1 (typically PvP) doesn’t work when classes are diverse, as there will always be cases where class “A” can always beat “B” in a duel. In triad games if A is dps and B is a healer this usually works. But it’s the same if “A” happens to do its damage with conditions and “B” happens to lack enough cure conditions.
When earlier games have tried hard to balance for 1v1, what happens is the classes become homogenized. That ruins the grouped PvE game.
I support ArenaNet’s previously announced decision not to balance for 1v1, and hope it stays that way.
practice, perfect your build and point out on the forums if you think that the class needs better balancing.
A lot of classes have weak points – for example mesmer doesn’t have a lot of condition removal even though he can send it back to you on some builds. Mesmer doesn’t have any movement speed.
Most thieves build squishy. Build to survive their initial attack and counter it immediately afterwards.
but, i read that anet will not balance things based on 1 vs 1 then …
Professions and abilities are diverse in this game, as needed both for a meaningful PvE experience and to make field/finisher nontrivial. Synergies between diverse Professions are essential to “real” PvE games.
Balancing for 1v1 (typically PvP) doesn’t work when classes are diverse, as there will always be cases where class “A” can always beat “B” in a duel. In triad games if A is dps and B is a healer this usually works. But it’s the same if “A” happens to do its damage with conditions and “B” happens to lack enough cure conditions.
When earlier games have tried hard to balance for 1v1, what happens is the classes become homogenized. That ruins the grouped PvE game.
I support ArenaNet’s previously announced decision not to balance for 1v1, and hope it stays that way.
true, but it feels like a lot of “complaints” are coming from people who, did not get what they want in their little 1 vs 1 skirmish?
i.e.
“thief / mesmer always kills me in 1 vs 1”
“i cannot kill thief / mesmer in 1 vs 1, they always ran away”
etc
The more you try to balance classes, the more they will be shoved into a single build. On top of that if duelling would be implemented the amounts of screams for nerfs to a class would be multiplied by 10.
Almost no MMO is balanced 1vs1 or tries to. The only way to balance GW2 is to remove 7 of the 8 classes. MMO’s are simply not meant to be balanced 1vs1.
I simply don’t think that GW2 was not meant for 1v1.
but there are certain professions that could be very hard to put down in a 1 vs 1, such as the thief or mesmer.
what do you have to say regarding that? O_O
I’d say mace them good!
Just because gw2 isn’t balanced for 1 v 1 doesn’t mean that 1 v 1 won’t occur. Maybe your running back to a zerg, maybe you’re solo roaming, maybe you got caught away from your group.
In these situations the weaker class does not throw up its hands and say “you win because your class is empirically better than mine in this scenario” instead, you try to fight and hold out as long as possible.
Maybe you’re better than the other guy. Maybe help will arrive. Maybe you can bring the fight to a stalemate. Maybe you’ll get an opportunity to escape.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
While people are dueling 1v1 in some remote corner of the map, being all skilly and stuff, the rest of us are working as teams and actually creating differences in the scoreboards.
There are no substantial rewards for 1v1 fighting, so it really doesn’t matter if the classes are perfectly balanced.
you can build your character for zerg/group support or 1vs1.
it’s a team game. WvWvW is gaining points for your server. sPvP, get your team to win.
I paid my money to roam , so thats what i shall do…scoreboard or not.
I never expect to lose. Even when I’m the Engineer , I still prepare a victory speech.
Dude what, you didn’t even watch the whole thing.
It says right there at the end “if players have been complaining about it for a long time they are probably right”.
Now, I’m not saying that the game should be balanced for 1v1, but…your video is not even saying the same thing as what you are.
Edit: I’m fine with Thieves being incredibly imbalanced at 1v1 (especially in WvW), but not with people who say that “oh we suck at 1v1” because that’s just untrue.
(edited by Sunflowers.1729)
Not being balanced around 1v1 is just fine. However, there are both right and wrong ways to do that.
And discussing 1v1s is just fine. And again, there’s right and wrong ways to do that. Honestly, I don’t think that repeating “learn to play” over and over again is the right way to do that. Because there are things which you can teach, so “l2p” is really just being a lazy kitten.
Personally, I have two level 80 characters. A warrior and a thief and I have about 400 hours on the Warrior and 200ish on the Thief. My personal experience playing a thief is that it’s pretty hard to do right. D/D doesn’t work too well if your opponent knows that CnD has very short range. D/P works well, but it takes a ton of traits and it punishes bad play by leaving you like a fish out of water.
I have played PvP in other games that obviously lacked balance. In Diablo 2, I specialized playing a Barbarian-vs-Caster, which meant that it was literally impossible for me to beat a Barbarian-vs-Barbarian. In Perfect World International, I played an Assassin, who many considered nearly impossible to defeat in 1v1, until they released gear that gave everyone the defense to defend against it, along with a significant increase in power.
The situation with Thieves is nothing like that. Most classes can beat a thief, as long as you play well. And honestly, the existence of an “easy mode” character is also good, as that gets people introduced into the PvP aspect of the game.
And hey, it’s not like ANet isn’t doing stuff to Thieves. They heavily toned down the one-shotting potential with the change to Mug. And honestly, CnD shouldn’t be nerfed on account of Backstab, since the former is an offhand while the former is a mainhand skill. As for Backstab, it’s a melee range high damage skill on a class that has crap-for-armor and crap-for-hp.
(edited by Olba.5376)
Quite the contrary, 1v1 dueling is much more fun than team fights. I feel 1v1 duels in GW2 are greatly a part of the game.
Quite the contrary, 1v1 dueling is much more fun than team fights. I feel 1v1 duels in GW2 are greatly a part of the game.
The OP is not saying that it’s not fun.
However, currently majority of all balance changes originate from WvW and sPvP. Both of those are team-based.
Simple fact is that Anet is owned by NCSoft. NCSoft will never make a game with balanced classes.
(edited by Amun Ra.6435)
Can’t prevent 1on1’s from happening but I agree this is stupid in some ways.
There’s even a competition going on from what I’ve heard. It must be crowded with Mesmers…
dear fellow official gw2 forums people,
we all know that guild wars 2 is not balanced for 1 vs 1 yes?
then why people are still “discussing” about 1 vs 1?some examples:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/How-to-counter-get-out-of-jail-free-button/2125456
(engineer got thief down to 5% health but thief ran away)https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/How-are-Warriors-in-1v1
(asking about how warrior does in 1 vs 1)https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/3-minute-fight-with-thief-in-WvW-any-tips/2121509
(ele fought thief for 3 min)https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Beat-A-Thief/2104628
(necro asking for tips on how to beat thief in 1 vs 1 in WvW)there could be more but these will do for now …
wouldn’t a simple “guild wars 2 is not balanced for 1 vs 1” put an end to all those discussions?
so what do you think?
The game isn’t designed around 1v1, but it still happens and can be a pretty solid indicator that something is terribly wrong with a class when 3 of the 4 posts you put here had to do with thieves being imbalanced in 1v1 :-P
so much bad …..
… “gw2 not balanced for 1v1” …….except….. changes are made bc a class is too strong 1v1. read any patch notes.
(eg bunkers—“waa they can’t be killed 1v1 bc my pet anet class fails against them” why would this even matter if there is no 1v1 balance?; or spirit weapons…..“must be killable”…..no need if there is no 1v1 balance as they attack 1 player only..not balanced for 1v1 remember? nope, nerfed to trash bc of 1v1 qq)
…it’s not balanced group vs group either……
(eg guardians have bad escape and are forced to melee. not fair in either -group or 1v1- combat:in 1v1, the other player can withdraw when losing with more escapes – groupvgroup, other classes can withdraw or are at range all the time; wvw kill and death stats, paying for repairs more than other classes would prove this point even more…the burden of lost gold to repair in wvw is on guardians most- this is a penalty for their time in group melee, not a benefit or compensation for being forced to do so and die often as would be expected balancing group vs group. the same with less wvw pvp badges….-same amount of effort in group combat, a lot higher risk than other classes too, but additional penalties for the guardian. other classes have no group vs group risk and way more benefits like a lot less repair and more kills/badges)
and it’s not balanced on class roles….
(eg. guardians are supposed to be good at guarding and not dying…..yet they do a lot bc they have bad escape. any class that can enter and leave combat at will can guard better bc they can’t be killed and constantly engage on a winning footing….30-45 second CD impassable line that lasts 5 seconds that can be walked around or waited out is not guarding..it leaves half a minute of nonexistent protection…so anet will say you can’t lock up a tunnel with constant impassable lines….to this there is an easy group vs group answer: there is stability buff anyway and why doesn’t this apply to thieves class role of killing a player character so that multiple thieves are needed to kill players rather than 1 to do the thief role? to guard properly a guardian needs 8 or more guardians to stop passage with the impassable line for a decent length of time….to fulfill their role-they can’t do so with 1 or even 2-3 guardians….so thieves to fulfill their role of killing players should need something more than 1 thief).
(edited by wolfie.7296)
No, no, no. Sunflowers hit it on the head.
This whole thread is a precursor to justify one class being ridiculously OP; it is not an actual discussion about balance. Probably thieves?
I play a thief, before the hating the starts. They are OP as bawlz at wvw and almost worthless in spvp. No news there.
While the game isnt perfectly balanced around 1v1 (see the penny arcade perfect-imbalance video Zacc linked), its generally accepted that any class should be able to beat any other class and no one class is unbeatable, spec and gear depending of course.
Thieves have a mechanic that lets us stealth as often as we want, which means that while we cant always win, we usually dont have to lose either. That is stupid. We need to have MUCH longer exposure times and higher out of stealth survivability to compensate (probably a base HP bump). See every other MMO ever, where rogue types get one vanish to use either offensively or defensively, and compensate out of stealth survivability with either avoidance mechanics or (counterable) stun mechanics.
SBI | Oceans | Ranger – Thief – Ele – Eng – Nec – Guard – Rev
Celestial Avatar is like an old man: Takes forever to get up and is spent in 4 seconds
Celestial Avatar is like an old man: Takes forever to get up and is spent in 4 seconds
While people are dueling 1v1 in some remote corner of the map, being all skilly and stuff, the rest of us are working as teams and actually creating differences in the scoreboards.
There are no substantial rewards for 1v1 fighting, so it really doesn’t matter if the classes are perfectly balanced.
You did notice there is no substantial rewards for working as a team and actually creating differences in the scoreboard, didn’t you?
[Sane]-Order of the Insane Disorder
Melanessa-Necromancer Cymaniel-Scrapper
Minikata-Guardian Shadyne-Elementalist -FA-
Melanessa-Necromancer Cymaniel-Scrapper
Minikata-Guardian Shadyne-Elementalist -FA-
it is balanced enough for a 1vs1 unless u play nooby low tier classes with a bad build.
it is balanced enough for a 1vs1 unless u play nooby low tier classes with a bad build.
translated into English: “The game is balanced for 1 vs 1 as long as you play a thief or warrior.”
I simply don’t think that GW2 was not meant for 1v1.
but there are certain professions that could be very hard to put down in a 1 vs 1, such as the thief or mesmer.
what do you have to say regarding that? O_O
Yup, and mesmers are of little use to a wvw zerg other than portal bot and maybe veil. The zerg is going to usually benefit more from eles and guardians, for example.
RIP in peace Robert
The game isn’t designed around 1v1, but it still happens and can be a pretty solid indicator that something is terribly wrong with a class when 3 of the 4 posts you put here had to do with thieves being imbalanced in 1v1 :-P
but … what if …
thieves are supposed to be “imbalanced” in 1 vs 1 ? O_O
The game isn’t designed around 1v1, but it still happens and can be a pretty solid indicator that something is terribly wrong with a class when 3 of the 4 posts you put here had to do with thieves being imbalanced in 1v1 :-P
but … what if …
thieves are supposed to be “imbalanced” in 1 vs 1 ? O_O
I don’t think most people really want to accept that, yeah if your really skilled, you can 1v1 anything with anything. But if a class by design is suppose to handle 1v1 situations and escape better than anything else, then why can’t it?
There was a live stream with one of the Dev’s doing WvW, his group came across stealth thief was running circles around them, Dev said pretty much “don’t bother, you’re not going to kill it”.
A lot of people got really angry, people don’t want to accept it. that will never change i don’t believe.
The game isn’t designed around 1v1, but it still happens and can be a pretty solid indicator that something is terribly wrong with a class when 3 of the 4 posts you put here had to do with thieves being imbalanced in 1v1 :-P
but … what if …
thieves are supposed to be “imbalanced” in 1 vs 1 ? O_O
No, I’m fine with Thieves being imbalanced in 1v1 (again, I really don’t like the people who can’t see this, but that’s a different topic).
Just don’t complain that “oh we suck in team-fights and zergs and dungeons”. (which is not really true anyway) You can’t be good everywhere.
ArenaNet posted on facebook a 1v1 tournament lol
The thing is even though thieves’ might well be designed to do well in 1v1 roaming and less well in large fights (due to low armor/HP and the consistant amount of AoE damage coming in). And I accept that this should be Thieves’ role, and it should be otherwise all classes will become hugely homogenized.
In otherwords, thieves should be powerful in 1v1 situations.
I still would love to chance to go somewhere with a couple of thieves from my Guild and practice a) surviving more than a few seconds against them in a roaming situation b) how to make myself an unattractive target.
In otherwords some kind of Dueling has Pros and Cons
- Pros :> people can mess around in a non life and death situation and chat about things. It makes them more aware of the issues a class has, and it can become less “Oh kitten a thief has just jumped me and insta-gibbed me, they are so OP”, and more “Hmm I see Thieves have these issues, if I’m aware I shouldn’t be such an easy target”
- Cons :> Some People will call out about things being unbalanced 1v1
I personally hope that the majority of people would fall into the catagory that use it as a tool for greater understanding of the game dynamics, and it’s only a vocal minority that come on the forum and moan about 1v1 balance.
It’s also true that game Meta changes in multiple ways, either by a counter being found to a popular build, or A-Net changing the balance of skills. This is a good thing, the only time where something is bad is when the Meta doesn’t shift as that means people have given up trying to counter X Build, and just accept it’s the best build out there.
The game isnt balanced period.
Just try to play an elementalist and you’ll see… You spend 5 sec casting a spell that crit at 4k dmg , someone come hit you 3 times 8k dmg in less than 1 second and your down.
If one class is better than any other class in 1v1 that will just lead to more and more players pick that class. Look thieves for example, each weeks you see more and more thieves in WvW. Players are rerolling thieves because it’s the fotm class there.
ArenaNet posted on facebook a 1v1 tournament lol
well its not an official tournament though.
https://www.facebook.com/GuildWars2/posts/10151531642154209
its by the small sPvP community:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/No-Mercy-Community-Cup-is-here-NA-Esport
The game isn’t designed around 1v1, but it still happens and can be a pretty solid indicator that something is terribly wrong with a class when 3 of the 4 posts you put here had to do with thieves being imbalanced in 1v1 :-P
but … what if …
thieves are supposed to be “imbalanced” in 1 vs 1 ? O_O
I… guess I hadn’t thought of that lol.
The game isn’t designed around 1v1, but it still happens and can be a pretty solid indicator that something is terribly wrong with a class when 3 of the 4 posts you put here had to do with thieves being imbalanced in 1v1 :-P
but … what if …
thieves are supposed to be “imbalanced” in 1 vs 1 ? O_OI… guess I hadn’t thought of that lol.
aye, and … what if … warriors are supposed to act as some kind of “finisher” for their team mates?
there was one time, when i was doing tourny with 4 other fellow guild members.
one of them commented that the opposing team’s warrior “delivers”.
my fellow guild member, he was playing a mesmer that time.
i asked what he meant, he said that warrior’s team mates exhausted all his (mesmer, my team and guild member) stun breakers, escapes etc.
then the warrior proceed to finish slice and dice him into pieces.
hence “he delivers”.
i read often that people often complained that warriors have nothing to close the gaps etc …
but … what if … they are not meant to close the gaps by themselves …
but …. let their other profession team members do it.
they just need to close in for the kill.
guild wars 2 is a team game. !!!!
stop complaining about 1 vs 1 imbalance issues already perhaps? XD
It isn’t balanced for 1v1s. I don’t think that was apart of their design, TBH. You have classes like thieves, mesmers that, if you look at their profession skills, traits, and weapons, is pretty obvious that they are designed for small scale skirmishes. Then you have eles, guardians who are there to mainly support(minus d/d ele, of course!). Each classes have their different roles. Which is why I can’t stand when a support class is crying about losing to a mesmer in a 1v1.
Seeing as how many different classes revolve around support of other classes, I agree that Guild Wars 2 is not balanced enough for 1vs1. I mean, an Elementalist would completely destroy a ranger or a warrior from far range because they can’t compete with the damage of the elementalist. Instead, they rely heavily on stuns, stomps, and bleed effects which have no effect on elementalists from a range. I have tested this. In regular Spvp, I get destroyed by warriors because even an aoe that gets aimed at another character and accidentally hits me, I get slowed/stunned/crippled and then the warrior can rush in at me to stun me and beat me down. This is completely different because I could have easily taken him down because of my massive damage and range, but because of the advantage of the cripple, the warrior could rush me. So I really don’t think GW2 is made for 1vs1.
[~Galtrix~] [~Level 80 Elementalist~] [~GoM~]
Dude what, you didn’t even watch the whole thing.
It says right there at the end “if players have been complaining about it for a long time they are probably right”.
Now, I’m not saying that the game should be balanced for 1v1, but…your video is not even saying the same thing as what you are.
Edit: I’m fine with Thieves being incredibly imbalanced at 1v1 (especially in WvW), but not with people who say that “oh we suck at 1v1” because that’s just untrue.
Did you pay attention to the whole thing? What about the part of Cyclical Imbalance? Do you understand that it takes designers AND players for this to work?
If devs would stop messing around with the classes, it would force everyone to think instead of beg for nerfs/buffs. One specific build for a specific class would become Flave of the Month. People would get tired of getting killed by them and start developing their own build to counter the FotM. That build becomes popular and then people start designing builds for taking down that build and the cycle continues.
I am sorry if you didn’t completely understand it, but having this game balanced on a 1v1 basis is asking for kittenloads of pigeonholing and boredom.
(edited by Zacchary.6183)
Dude what, you didn’t even watch the whole thing.
It says right there at the end “if players have been complaining about it for a long time they are probably right”.
Now, I’m not saying that the game should be balanced for 1v1, but…your video is not even saying the same thing as what you are.
Edit: I’m fine with Thieves being incredibly imbalanced at 1v1 (especially in WvW), but not with people who say that “oh we suck at 1v1” because that’s just untrue.
Did you pay attention to the whole thing? What about the part of Cyclical Imbalance? Do you understand that it takes designers AND players for this to work?
If devs would stop messing around with the classes, it would force everyone to think instead of beg for nerfs/buffs. One specific build for a specific class would become Flave of the Month. People would get tired of getting killed by them and start developing their own build to counter the FotM. That build becomes popular and then people start designing builds for taking down that build and the cycle continues.
I am sorry if you didn’t completely understand it, but having this game balanced on a 1v1 basis is asking for kittenloads of pigeonholing and boredom.
That’s why I said you didn’t watch the whole thing.
Tell me, where are the roaming groups of anti-Thief builds? Oh right, there aren’t any. Because you can’t out-roam a Thief.
Seriously, if you are gonna bring up a video, at least understand it before posting it here.
Edit: Allow me to explain, in no uncertain terms, why you have no idea what you are talking about.
The video has nothing to do with 1v1. All it is saying is that by making a certain playing style/character/item stronger, people will learn to counter it. This creates a circle of A counter B which counters C and so on.
If Thieves had a counter in WvW, there large amount of Thieves would be countered by (for example) an anti-Thief Engineer build, which would in turn be countered by something else. Evidently this is not the case. There have always been large amount of Thieves – the ‘metagame’ is not changing because there is nothing that counters them.
It can still be balanced because Thieves aren’t very good at larger fights, but your video has nothing to do with that. All it is saying is that if something is imbalanced, another strategy will evolve to counter that. We are not seeing that in WvW.
You can argue all you want and say that “oh everyone is just lazy to think of a way” but that’s an exceedingly weak argument because with Youtube and this forum, only one person needs to think of such a build and it will become immediately widespread. Obviously, that has not happened yet (that or such a build would be useless against anything but Thieves, which defeats the point)
In short, can you stop pretending you understand the video, and go watch it again? I’ll distill it down to one sentence: GW2 is not balanced for 1v1 (true) but your video has nothing to do with it.
If anyone else has any issues with my post, just…say so. I’d hate to be wrong.
(edited by Sunflowers.1729)