Guild Wars 2

Everytime i try and get a group on my light and medium armor characters no one wants me “I am to squishy” am i really gong to have to play a heavy armor character to be able and get groups in this game?

The funny thing is if you were a mesmer they would have no problem taking you.

It’s just elitist people who want to spend more time looking for an ideal party than it takes to run the dungeon total.

even funnier my mes is tankier then most heavy armor >>
but ye some people think heavy armor is better for everyone . aka the people who played holy trinity

Awesome.6120:

The funny thing is if you were a mesmer they would have no problem taking you.

It’s just elitist people who want to spend more time looking for an ideal party than it takes to run the dungeon total.

This

Personally I’ve never understood the “search for the perfect PUG” mentality.

The fun thing is, armor tiers mean nothing compared to vitality tiers.

The “free vitality points” from HP tiers are muuuuuuuuuuuuuuch more than the “free toughness points” soldiers gain to the point that Guardians, without skill use, are the third most fragile profession (and that’s the reason one of the professions I resurect the most are Guardians not using their skills for survival thinking they have good armor…).

The “resistent” tiers (factoring the extra vitality and extra toughness) are this:

- Warrior.
- Necromancer (yes, a caster is the second ranked, not counting the extra HP bar from Death Shroud).
- Engineer and Ranger.
- Mesmer.
- Guardian (yeah, Guardian is this low, it has lots of defensive tools, but without skills it’s SUPER fragile).
- Thief.
- Elementalist.

And then, even the low tiered ones have a lot of tools for survival (supposedly the reason why they’re given less natural defense to compensate skill use for either survival or offense).

Wanting only “heavy armors” is a very noobish statement (basically noobs trying to sound elitist…) as there are a lot of factors involved in survival.

What Lokheit said.

Guardians are more like traditional GW1 characters. It requires active skill usage to maintain survivability in my experience.

I would put thieves at the bottom though. Not so much that their TTL isn’t slightly higher, but that the Elementalist has more CC/Killing options for mitigating damage through removing the enemy.

Wraeththix.1429:

I would put thieves at the bottom though. Not so much that their TTL isn’t slightly higher, but that the Elementalist has more CC/Killing options for mitigating damage through removing the enemy.

Well, those ranks weren’t personal opinion, but which profession got more “free defensive stats”. The extra health points/10 = free vitality, and extra armor = free toughness. Despite what the eye can see (harder armors), vitality tiers, without a visual reference are more abrupt than armor tiers.

I agree that Elementalists (if build for it) are more resistant than Thieves (and some other professions indeed) despite lower initial armor, but thieves also can avoid many damaging situations (he and his team if build for it) to compensate lack of direct reductions.

Each profession have ways to mitigate damage to compensate their lack of “free defensive atribute points”.

on paper heavy armor looks better, but in the real world the other armors are not far behind.

then again my guardian always seems to take aggro so while they may say they don’t like the holy trinity, i don’t it is a coincidence that the heavy class gets hit more regardless of their spec.

I never exclude people for being squishy.

However i hate having thiefs on my team. Don’t know why but they always seem like the weakest of the bunch who can barely survive anything.

Also engineers sometimes only sometimes.

Lokheit.7943:

Wanting only “heavy armors” is a very noobish statement (basically noobs trying to sound elitist…) as there are a lot of factors involved in survival.

Well, Do you want to group with 4 other noob heavy armor or 4 other noob light armor player? I think the anwser is obvious.

That’s the thing. I’m a noob player with no skill. And let me tell you I perform much better on my warrior/guardian than the other class, because I got no skill.

And yes there are other player with no skill just like me. Infact quite many too.

laokoko.7403:

Lokheit.7943:

Wanting only “heavy armors” is a very noobish statement (basically noobs trying to sound elitist…) as there are a lot of factors involved in survival.

Well, Do you want to group with 4 other noob heavy armor or 4 other noob light armor player? I think the anwser is obvious.

That’s the thing. I’m a noob player with no skill. And let me tell you I perform much better on my warrior/guardian than the other class, because I got no skill.

And yes there are other player with no skill just like me. Infact quite many too.

i would prefer a proffesion with utility over armor in this case , and you just named a faceroll proff, you just can’t fail on a war. thats why everyone wants them

laokoko.7403:

Lokheit.7943:

Wanting only “heavy armors” is a very noobish statement (basically noobs trying to sound elitist…) as there are a lot of factors involved in survival.

Well, Do you want to group with 4 other noob heavy armor or 4 other noob light armor player? I think the anwser is obvious.

That’s the thing. I’m a noob player with no skill. And let me tell you I perform much better on my warrior/guardian than the other class, because I got no skill.

And yes there are other player with no skill just like me. Infact quite many too.

As the tiers I posted show, if all of them are noobs, I prefer to go with Necros, Mesmers, Engis and Rangers before heavy armor Guardians as without skill Guardians are way more fragile than all of them.

PS: With that statement I’m not trying to put myself as some kind of pro or look down to unskilled players, I just find funny how players think armor tiers are guarantee for success when it’s clearly not as health tiers are superior, but they think they’re super elitists or something calling for heavy armors.

Thomassassinate.9370:

I never exclude people for being squishy.

However i hate having thiefs on my team. Don’t know why but they always seem like the weakest of the bunch who can barely survive anything.

Also engineers sometimes only sometimes.

Yes, other classes have decent attrition either through good tanking abilities or the ability to avoid or mitigate damage. Thieves are easily the “worst” class in this ranking, arguably making them the weakest class in PvE in general. They just really need some development attention on a lot of different fronts.

So you are some expert on all class since you tried all of them? Have a 80 of every class and actually do dungeon with all of them before?

Guardian have a passive health regen, how can he be more fragile than everyone?

Einlanzer.1627:

Thomassassinate.9370:

I never exclude people for being squishy.

However i hate having thiefs on my team. Don’t know why but they always seem like the weakest of the bunch who can barely survive anything.

Also engineers sometimes only sometimes.

Yes, other classes have decent attrition either through good tanking abilities or the ability to avoid or mitigate damage. Thieves are easily the “worst” class in this ranking, arguably making them the weakest class in PvE in general. They just really need some development attention on a lot of different fronts.

That’s only because most thieves think it’s cool to go glass cannon which is a mistake. I play support Thief, with venom sharing heals (2500-3000 each cooldown cycle for close party members), combos (if paired with water combos can heal 1.4K per second to party members in the area with Shortbow second skill), maintainable weakness (with the shortbow 4th and a trait) and multiple bleeds (with P/D when it’s safe to get close to oppnents) and I’m usually resurecting other party members (Shadow Refuge = Best Utility skill in the game for… well, utility, including skiping hard stuff and resurrecting players).

It’s not the Thief, it’s the mentallity of a lot of Thief players thinking they will one-shot any creature without getting damage. Of course glass cannons will die, but that’s not the right way to play the Thief IMO, I’m having a lot of success as support Thief and usually I’m the one resurrecting fallen members of the party.

Each profession is able to survive if they know how to play their cards (some more, some less, but all can). Problem is the mentallity of players playing some professions (for example, despite being tier 1 health and armor, I find Warriors dying a lot in PUGs).

Thomassassinate.9370:

I never exclude people for being squishy.

However i hate having thiefs on my team. Don’t know why but they always seem like the weakest of the bunch who can barely survive anything.

Also engineers sometimes only sometimes.

i can almost say the same thing about warrior and their “hurr hurr imma a tonk” while i’m throwing a shadow refuge at them. -_-

laokoko.7403:

So you are some expert on all class since you tried all of them? Have a 80 of every class and actually do dungeon with all of them before?

Guardian have a passive health regen, how can he be more fragile than everyone?

Why exactly the agressivity?

No, I’m not a 80 with every class and I don’t claim to be an expert with all of them, but yep, indeed one of my characters (close to be my second “been there done that” character) is a Guardian and the passive health regen isn’t that great and can’t counter bursts. It adds to survivality over time, but you only notice it in long periods of time. Guardian has many ways to replenish HP, and as a Mace/Focus Guardian I know he can avoid a lot of damage, but players not playing it right won’t be saved by the passive health regen. I can’t count how many times my Thief went to a dungeon with a Greatsword Guardian who ended up being the most squishy party member.

Facts are there (pure mathematics), Guardian has the same base HP than Thief and Elementalist, and Armor tier are very close to each other when compared to Health tiers (if all professions stand still in front of barrage of equal attacks Guardians are the third ones to fall), so if you want to go “safe” in case they’re unskilled, it isn’t wise to ask for heavy armors when 66% of casters and adventurers have a better “natural defense” than Guardian (50% of heavy armors) when not factoring builds and skills, because if you’re expecting they will be uneskilled, Guardians won’t be as great.

Of course I’m talking about that case you mentioned, that players want heavy guys because they think that if they’re unskilled it will mean higher odds of success (when really in THAT case it’s safer to go for higher HP tiers).

When factoring builds and skills Guardians have a lot of survivality (and Warriors die a lot for my experience with them playing with me in dungeons, despite having the highest natural defense), but at the end all depends on the players, the skills, traits and equipment, and how good they are at avoiding getting killed.

As I said in other post, my main character is a Thief, arguably one of the most squishy professions, and I’m always resurrecting other party members. Then you find many Thieves that go glass cannon and die a lot.

You can find a lot of different situations, I’ve done lvl 80 dungeons with parties of 4 thieves very fast, and I’ve done it alongside 4 heavy armor guys and the group died a lot. You can find everything no matter the armor they have.

I maintain my first statement: Players excluding light and medium armor characters from their groups because of their armor tiers are noobs pretending they’re super elitists or something. Armor tiers are nearly insignificant for survivality both for skilled and unskilled players.

post deleted, since it is a bit offensive.

laokoko.7403:

well if that the case. Please tell those medium armor or cloth armor class to go melee.

I might be mislead that heavy armor class is more tanky since I’m always meleeing so the dungeon can be faster. And all those other class just hide behind melee and don’t share the damage they should be taking.

And tell them to stop kiting. Since I have to stand still to do hundred blade.

And the reason I asked if you have multiple 80 is because I want to make sure I’m talking to someone with actual experence with the subject instead of some theory craft.

Sure thing… my mesmer is often in the front lines with his sword in hand. And my elementalist has been running around with dual daggers for nearly the entire time since launch, long before it became a flavor of the month. And then there’s my necro and his hard hitting dagger… but lets not forget how many hits my engineers shield has stopped in the midst of his melee bomb fields….

bluewanders.5297:

laokoko.7403:

well if that the case. Please tell those medium armor or cloth armor class to go melee.

I might be mislead that heavy armor class is more tanky since I’m always meleeing so the dungeon can be faster. And all those other class just hide behind melee and don’t share the damage they should be taking.

And tell them to stop kiting. Since I have to stand still to do hundred blade.

And the reason I asked if you have multiple 80 is because I want to make sure I’m talking to someone with actual experence with the subject instead of some theory craft.

Sure thing… my mesmer is often in the front lines with his sword in hand. And my elementalist has been running around with dual daggers for nearly the entire time since launch, long before it became a flavor of the month. And then there’s my necro and his hard hitting dagger… but lets not forget how many hits my engineers shield has stopped in the midst of his melee bomb fields….

Ya this discover makes me angry. I’m upset enough I keep doing this dungeon and every guardian is using sceptor the entire dungeon.

Now I have to take a hard look at other light/medium player too. I always let it go since I always thought they are more fragile. They didn’t have a choice. Now I realize they are just bad players.

Thomassassinate.9370:

I never exclude people for being squishy.

However i hate having thiefs on my team. Don’t know why but they always seem like the weakest of the bunch who can barely survive anything.

Also engineers sometimes only sometimes.

If you have terrible Thieves or glass cannon Thieves all the time, I can perfectly understand that. However, don’t pass them all off. I’ve had plenty of experiences with Thieves who spec properly and play with enough skill to negate the inherent squishiness while remaining in melee range. We have an insane amount of dodges, aggro removal and reviving ability while being able to dish out. If I had a terrible Heavy on the team, I’d bring another Thief just for Shadow Refuge.

In all honesty, playing as a melee Thief, I am almost always the one standing for longest among many different varieties of PUGs. I’m basically the team medic (albeit with high DPS) with Shadowstep and Shadow Refuge. I’m not bigging myself up as a god-tier player or anything, but it says a lot about a Thief’s actual capabilities opposed to most that give the profession a bad name by getting annihilated the second they come face to face with a veteran mob.

Einlanzer.1627:

Thomassassinate.9370:

I never exclude people for being squishy.

However i hate having thiefs on my team. Don’t know why but they always seem like the weakest of the bunch who can barely survive anything.

Also engineers sometimes only sometimes.

Yes, other classes have decent attrition either through good tanking abilities or the ability to avoid or mitigate damage. Thieves are easily the “worst” class in this ranking, arguably making them the weakest class in PvE in general. They just really need some development attention on a lot of different fronts.

Hardly, the thing about thieves that many people either don’t get or fail to accomplish is that most if not all of a thieves defense is active avoidance, shadow step, stealth and dodge all take a great deal of timing to get right (for defense) and by proxy, take more skill than hitting a button to make you immune to damage for 5s.

That essentially makes thieves bad for people who aren’t constantly paying attention to their surroundings, if you misstep once you can be downed in an instant… on the upside is the awesome damage and potentially awesome utility.

Thieves aren’t the problem, it’s the people playing a thief who lack the awareness and reflexive skill use that are the problem, also those that play the thief like a warrior.

laokoko.7403:

well if that the case. Please tell those medium armor or cloth armor class to go melee.

melee glass cannon Elementalist at your service, how can I help?

Grevender.9235:

laokoko.7403:

well if that the case. Please tell those medium armor or cloth armor class to go melee.

melee glass cannon Elementalist at your service, how can I help?

Please stop telling me how everyone of you can go melee. I’m just saying you have to admit a majority of pug there’s many who don’t.

Anyway, people should be more tolerable to other. This is a game after all, and people should play whatever class/build/weapon they want. Maybe those guardian that use staff/scepor just want to role play a princess. That’s how I think now.

if a guardian is fragil i must be doing some kind of explot as i find myself standing on the spot auto attacking so much(and yes its in melee range) and only ocatenly dogding out of aoe(ofc i dont stand in insta downed stuff or thing that kills you on the spot) else im just cleaning it off me and keep standing there as my regen is so heave even without the virtue of resolvens(yes im talking in bunker build with hammer mainly and useing stuff like “hold the line”, 10% damage decress signet, eighter smite or CoP) i can not do that in fractals tho i can fight some off the bosses solo for 5-10 mins and if i dont mess up i will kill it even on level 12 but thats by kiting, dodging and keep useing diffrent lifesaveing skills to help me

laokoko.7403:

Please stop telling me how everyone of you can go melee. I’m just saying you have to admit a majority of pug there’s many who don’t.

generally speaking, you are right: light armored aren’t supposed to be on the front lines and are meant to avoid melee at any cost.
Generally speaking.
In GW2’s specific case, all classes can play their cards at ranged, close and even melee range, and yup, this includes paper dudes too; BUT, even if paper dudes CAN go melee, they really shouldn’t.
I noticed the new trend in W3 to go D/D as Elementalist: yesterday I fought a couple of D/D Elementalists, but they were really only following the trend, without a solid clue about what they were doing, so they just feed me free Honor Badges without any struggle at all
Even more, I’ve been in PUG for dungeons/fractals with both melee and ranged Elementalists, who were a true weight, dying in loop like flies and adding nothing to the party therefore leading to a very frustrating gaming experience for everynab.
So what’s the whole point? well, usually I play the game in a very casual fashion, so I don’t care hanging around with “pro”, mostly because I prefer to have fun (and noobs can be funnier than pro) rather than seeing numbers increase on my account, and I join PUGs of any kind with or without paper dudes…. BUT, should I be in a hurry to get things done fast with a PUG, well, I would carefully avoid random paper dudes because simply the probability of ’em failing is higher than all the one-button-win classes out there.

This is a game after all, and people should play whatever class/build/weapon they want.

light armored classes, since the times of paper and dices Dungeons & Dragons have ALWAYS been harder to play and master than everything else. It’s normal, so no wonder GW2 keeps the tradition going.

Korsbaek.9803:

if a guardian is fragil i must be doing some kind of explot as i find myself standing on the spot auto attacking so much(and yes its in melee range) and only ocatenly dogding out of aoe(ofc i dont stand in insta downed stuff or thing that kills you on the spot) else im just cleaning it off me and keep standing there as my regen is so heave even without the virtue of resolvens(yes im talking in bunker build with hammer mainly and useing stuff like “hold the line”, 10% damage decress signet, eighter smite or CoP) i can not do that in fractals tho i can fight some off the bosses solo for 5-10 mins and if i dont mess up i will kill it even on level 12 but thats by kiting, dodging and keep useing diffrent lifesaveing skills to help me

No you aren’t exploiting anything. Please read everything before getting conclussions. If you read all of it, the statement is that without skill use, the Guardian is one of the most fragile class. Then if you continue reading, I said Guardian with skills (and as you said, you use them correctly) and the right build has a ton of survivality (I play Mace/Focus with mine, I know he can be a rock). The statement was that simply being a Guardian didn’t mean survivality guarantee by itself, as many Guardians I’ve seen think they’re some sort of barbaric juggernauts and die constantly because of that. Mathematically, WITHOUT skill use and right builds (it was about players looking for heavy armors so they would survive even without experience), the Guardian is terribly fragile. Once you factor skill use Guardians have tons of survivality, probably the most (and the fun part is that once you factor skills and builds, many professions pass the Warrior, who is tier 1 for HP and armor).

The influence wearing a Heay Armor has in this game, specially when compared to have a naturally higher HP bar, is very low. BTW that’s something I don’t like too much as the armor has visual explanation but the HP not when everyone of the same race has the same physical condition. I liked GW1 model where everyone had the same base HP, and then armor gave more defense to some, and more energy and/or energy regeneration to others to compensate.