Guild Wars 2

How it can be. Player with high AP (i,e, high game activity) but don’t know game?
I suspect only 1 thing – these players buy account from account sellers. I do not respect such things.

I expect that player with +5k AP (maybe less) know everything about game.

Noobies with +10k AP very disappointing.

LS, dailies and monthlies get you enough AP without ever leaving openworld pve which is very easy and doesn’t require much knowledge.

AP is a completely useless indicator of knowledge and skill.

Turamarth.3248:

LS, dailies and monthlies get you enough AP without ever leaving openworld pve which is very easy and doesn’t require much knowledge.

I do all dailies, with almost 7k AP I have 4731 permanent.

Define, don’t know game

They don’t know their skills, they don’t know small details about the game? Can’t PvP without dying? What?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Define, don’t know game

They don’t know their skills, they don’t know small details about the game? Can’t PvP without dying? What?

Behave like first time in dungeon.

vpchelko.4261:

Behave like first time in dungeon.

Maybe it is first time in the dungeon?
Dungeons give rather little AP and you can easily get a massive amount of AP without every entering a dungeon.

You don’t need to be that good at PvE, just persistent. All you need to know is how not to get killed, often. You don’t need to know how to play in a coordinated team. You don’t need to have a meta-build.

All AP shows is that they did a lot of daily and monthlies, cleared a bunch of critters, used all there weapons, explored the world and did the LS to it’s fullest. Time consuming but doesn’t really require a lot of skill.

vpchelko.4261:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Define, don’t know game

They don’t know their skills, they don’t know small details about the game? Can’t PvP without dying? What?

Behave like first time in dungeon.

You can have a large amount of AP without ever setting foot in a dungeon. As others have said AP isn’t a very good measure of overall knowledge of the game.

Knowing a dungeon path != knowing the game.

I got over 10K AP … Compared to the amount of time I’ve spent open world, I haven’t done much in terms of WvW, PVP or dungeons. Not sure why this is even a surprise. Is 10K AP even hard to get anymore?

vpchelko.4261:

I expect that player with +5k AP (maybe less) know everything about game.

Noobies with +10k AP very disappointing.

If I remember correctly I hadn’t done a single dungeon until I had maybe 6k AP.
And even today with more than 11k AP I have never set a foot into SPvP.
It is as lordkrall said. AP is a useless indicator.

vpchelko.4261:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Define, don’t know game

They don’t know their skills, they don’t know small details about the game? Can’t PvP without dying? What?

Behave like first time in dungeon.

A person can have high ap and never set foot in a dungeon or rarely go in one. I rarely go in a dungeon, the last time was a couple of months back. When I’m in one that I haven’t been in a few months, it’s very likely I won’t remember it well enough to know what to do.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Knowing a dungeon path != knowing the game.

Dungeons is major part of the game knowledge.

Turamarth.3248:

If I remember correctly I hadn’t done a single dungeon until I had maybe 6k AP.
And even today with more than 11k AP I have never set a foot into SPvP.
It is as lordkrall said. AP is a useless indicator.

Are you sure you tell the truth?

vpchelko.4261:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Knowing a dungeon path != knowing the game.

Dungeons is major part of the game knowledge.

Not everyone does dungeons frequently and knows the mechanics. Not knowing the mechanics of a dungeon is not equal to buying the game from an account seller as you said in your first post.

I’ve done a handful of dungeons and I might do one once every month, or two, or three.

vpchelko.4261:

Are you sure you tell the truth?

Yes.

vpchelko.4261:

Dungeons is major part of the game knowledge.

After they basically got rid of the dungeon design team that could be argued.

vpchelko.4261:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Knowing a dungeon path != knowing the game.

Dungeons is major part of the game knowledge.

What? lol

What we have here is a failure to see the game for what it is. Anet promised a game with a focus on a living breathing world. The only dungeon you ever have to go into is to finish the personal story. A single story mode dungeon path. That’s it. Anet hasn’t had a new dungeon in over a year. Why would anyone think dungeons are a major part of this game.

Do you know what percentage of the population never goes into a dungeon? Have you calculated how many achievement points it’s possible to get without going into dungeons? I have over 23,000 achievement points and though I’ve done every dungeon, I don’t know them well and could care less about them.

It’s okay that you like dungeons. It’s okay that you enjoy them. It’s okay that dungeons mean something to you.

But they are not what this game is centered around, they’re not a “major part of this game” in my opinion and those who think they are have little evidence of it.

Turamarth.3248:

Yes.

What part of the game you are playing?

I am interested how people can miss the dungeons.

Dude, I have almost 13K AP and I think I’ve done maybe half the dungeon story modes and even less of them just to do them. I’m just not a fan of running dungeons.

Pretty sure I can make up for that in my WvW and growing PvP and PvE knowledge, but at the same time I couldn’t tell you the best way to deal with Teq since thats something else I’ve not cared to learn.

So yeah, in short, AP means nothing.

vpchelko.4261:

Turamarth.3248:

Yes.

What part of the game you are playing?

I am interested how people can miss the dungeons.

Everything except for SPvP and most dungeons. The only dungeons I’m really familiar with are AC, CM and SE.

vpchelko.4261:

How it can be. Player with high AP (i,e, high game activity) but don’t know game?
I suspect only 1 thing – these players buy account from account sellers. I do not respect such things.

I expect that player with +5k AP (maybe less) know everything about game.

Noobies with +10k AP very disappointing.

There are still people that judge player ability by AP? There are so many ways to get AP without doing dungeons, pvp, wvw, etc. Always found it amusing back when I used to play (just came back recently) when people looked for a certain AP level to get into a dungeon group.

Dungeons dont account for all that much ap in the grand scheme of things. I dont think you even break 500 from all the dungeon AP.

vpchelko.4261:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Knowing a dungeon path != knowing the game.

Dungeons is major part of the game knowledge.

Color me unconvinced. Dungeons are a small part of the game, neglected by the devs, and peopled by a few of the game’s many demographics. Just because dungeons are a big deal to you doesn’t make them a big deal to anyone else.

So, what prompted today’s rant? Someone dared to join your 5K+ AP party and didn’t know a path? Perhaps you should face the possibility that AP is not a good indicator of either knowledge or skill.

I have 13k AP. Guess how many dungeons I’ve run?

The answer is 1, the Aetherpath of TA. I guess 3 if you count the Aetherblade Retreat and the Molten Weapons Facility as dungeons.

I just don’t have a huge desire to run dungeons, and any desire I do have instantly gets drained away when I see all the bile-filled conversations about people hating on “dungeon noobs” and kicking people for bad builds and so forth. I don’t “metagame”, every single character I have is either a semi-tank, a condition build, or a full tank. Well, ok, I have one pure ’zerker, but its my Necro which apparently is crap for dungeons anyway. Every time I start thinking “Hey, maybe I should get into dungeons” then I see something like that and decide its not even worth putting myself through it.

vpchelko.4261:

Turamarth.3248:

Yes.

What part of the game you are playing?

I am interested how people can miss the dungeons.

It’s easy … you just don’t do them. Game doesn’t make you do dungeons to play it. I’m interested in how you think people CAN’T miss them.

I have 15k ap. I barely dungeon, wvw or pvp. I would have no idea of “accepted tactics” of a pug or a skilled dungeon group.

Ap has no direct bearing on skill. I can personally atest to that!

..

Wait…I think I just insulted myself…..

Dakinia.8923:

vpchelko.4261:

How it can be. Player with high AP (i,e, high game activity) but don’t know game?
I suspect only 1 thing – these players buy account from account sellers. I do not respect such things.

I expect that player with +5k AP (maybe less) know everything about game.

Noobies with +10k AP very disappointing.

There are still people that judge player ability by AP? There are so many ways to get AP without doing dungeons, pvp, wvw, etc. Always found it amusing back when I used to play (just came back recently) when people looked for a certain AP level to get into a dungeon group.

AP is a bad measurement but its the only one we have

AP is not a bad measurement. It’s a meaningless measurement. People get most of their AP from doing dailies and living story as well as other activities like jumping puzzles. There are no activities that give AP (outside doing the dungeon paths once) that teach dungeon mechanics and where to stack.

evanlegion.7680:

Dakinia.8923:

vpchelko.4261:

How it can be. Player with high AP (i,e, high game activity) but don’t know game?
I suspect only 1 thing – these players buy account from account sellers. I do not respect such things.

I expect that player with +5k AP (maybe less) know everything about game.

Noobies with +10k AP very disappointing.

There are still people that judge player ability by AP? There are so many ways to get AP without doing dungeons, pvp, wvw, etc. Always found it amusing back when I used to play (just came back recently) when people looked for a certain AP level to get into a dungeon group.

AP is a bad measurement but its the only one we have

I am not even sure you even have that from what I read in this thread. There are people in this thread who have decently high AP that have barely or have never stepped foot into a dungeon. AP = nothing

Best way to “judge” people is to play with them. If you like the way they play, make friends and soon you will have a pool of people you know can play what you want to play. =)

Dakinia.8923:

Best way to “judge” people is to play with them. If you like the way they play, make friends and soon you will have a pool of people you know can play what you want to play. =)

+1 this. A good guild of like minded players goes a long way as well.

evanlegion.7680:

Dakinia.8923:

vpchelko.4261:

How it can be. Player with high AP (i,e, high game activity) but don’t know game?
I suspect only 1 thing – these players buy account from account sellers. I do not respect such things.

I expect that player with +5k AP (maybe less) know everything about game.

Noobies with +10k AP very disappointing.

There are still people that judge player ability by AP? There are so many ways to get AP without doing dungeons, pvp, wvw, etc. Always found it amusing back when I used to play (just came back recently) when people looked for a certain AP level to get into a dungeon group.

AP is a bad measurement but its the only one we have

So instead of basing a judgement about how well a player is using a bad measuring device, why not play with them and see how well they do, then judge them?

The “wannabe elite” dungeon community often uses AP as a measuring device to restrict certain “unskilled players” from joining their specific speed run groups. (aka. 5k+ AP or kick.) They feel that this is a measure of how long a person has played, and having such an AP score, they can determine if they are going to be a decent player, in that they at least know their class. But as these people are saying, that you can have a huge amount of AP, but not know a dang thing about dungeons, or have a bunch of different alts so that you are not exactly proficient on any single one of them.

I would personally find it rather amusing if the “grandmaster” dungeoneers, the ones who invented the meta, and discovered the processes used to speed clear the dungeons, were kicked from groups and pre-judged because they had a low AP. But thats just me.

vpchelko.4261:

Turamarth.3248:

Yes.

What part of the game you are playing?

I am interested how people can miss the dungeons.

We didn’t miss the dungeons. We simply aren’t that driven to do them.

Primarily because we are often forced to team up with players like you and who with their buddy kicks us off the “open to all” party that we started because we state upfront that we don’t know every path backwards and forwards.

vpchelko.4261:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Define, don’t know game

They don’t know their skills, they don’t know small details about the game? Can’t PvP without dying? What?

Behave like first time in dungeon.

*Rolls eyes. I have 14804 AP and never did a dungeon in this game. Don’t be so surprised.

vpchelko.4261:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Knowing a dungeon path != knowing the game.

Dungeons is major part of the game knowledge.

*Rolls eyes again and laughs. Depends on what you want to do in a game. I play very lil PvE and mostly WvW in GW2. If I want to do dungeons I log into FFXIV. I don’t do dungeons for many reasons in GW2.

Maybe that person let a friend or relative thats never played before play his/her account for an evening.

All AP does is give you a good indication regarding the likelihood of the player knowing the core mechanics of the game. It does not indicate whether someone knows the specifics for a given dungeon path or fractal.

CaboSoul.1204:

*Rolls eyes again and laughs. Depends on what you want to do in a game. I play very lil PvE and mostly WvW in GW2. If I want to do dungeons I log into FFXIV. I don’t do dungeons for many reasons in GW2.

Bug FFXIV sux hard.

OP’s post is actually one of the reasons I don’t do dungeons with strangers. Most people doing dungeons expect you to know what to do. It’s even worse if you have a high AP. They somehow think that means you do dungeons enough to know what to do without being told. That’s why, on the rare occasions I do one, it’s with my guild. I can follow along and do what they do and they don’t expect me to be anything but clueless.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Most people doing dungeons expect you to know what to do. It’s even worse if you have a high AP. They somehow think that means you do dungeons enough to know what to do without being told.

How is that an unreasonable expectation, especially if you don’t say anything at the beginning of the run?

vpchelko.4261:

I expect that player with +5k AP (maybe less) know everything about game.

vpchelko.4261:

I do all dailies, with almost 7k AP I have 4731 permanent.

So, are you saying that you know EVERYTHING about the game? If your answer is “no”, then you’re setting expectations on other players that you don’t even meet. I think this is called hypocrisy, but I could be wrong.

i really dislike dungeons in gw2, not because of the dungeons themself but mainly because of people like the op

and than there is the differnece between knowing a dungeon and knowing the speedrun nonsense that happens there all the time. i’ve seen every path but till now i refuse to skip half the ini and to cheat the bosses. so no, for some people i dont know the game, and thats totally fine

Fermi.2409:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Most people doing dungeons expect you to know what to do. It’s even worse if you have a high AP. They somehow think that means you do dungeons enough to know what to do without being told.

How is that an unreasonable expectation, especially if you don’t say anything at the beginning of the run?

its unreasonable, because AP doesnt represent dungeoneering. Getting AP is mostly about doing dailies, and events.

Yall are basically like, how are you 21 years old and cant play basketball. The two have little to do with each other.

Fermi.2409:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Most people doing dungeons expect you to know what to do. It’s even worse if you have a high AP. They somehow think that means you do dungeons enough to know what to do without being told.

How is that an unreasonable expectation, especially if you don’t say anything at the beginning of the run?

I’ve never pugged a dungeon so I don’t know what people say or don’t say. I’ve only read posts like the OP who are upset about people not being a dungeon expert or other posts where people say they got kicked or flamed for not knowing a dungeon completely. I sort of know what to do, but not well. If I did pug I would volunteer my lack of knowledge at the beginning but it’s the attitude I’ve seen on the forums that makes me wary of even joining a LFG.

I also point out that OP said that he believed that if you had a high AP and didn’t know your dungeons then his conclusion was that you were an account buyer. It’s that sort of attitude that there is something wrong with you (a person who breaks TOS in this case) that would make a person hesitant to volunteer that they aren’t a dungeon expert, especially if they do have high AP.

vpchelko.4261:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Knowing a dungeon path != knowing the game.

Dungeons is major part of the game knowledge.

I have 9k AP and have only ever done 1 or 2 dungeons runs. Don’t care to do more. In fact, dungeons are a very minor part of this game. What in the world makes you think that not knowing dungeons means not knowing the game?

vpchelko.4261:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Define, don’t know game

They don’t know their skills, they don’t know small details about the game? Can’t PvP without dying? What?

Behave like first time in dungeon.

I have to ask. Which dungeon?

Azure Prower.8701:

I have to ask. Which dungeon?

Random dungeon. Does not matter which.

Am I the only one that smells the stench of troll-sweat in this thread?

vpchelko.4261:

Azure Prower.8701:

I have to ask. Which dungeon?

Random dungeon. Does not matter which.

actually some dungeons are just more commonly done than others. Most people arent too familiar with caduceus and sorrows furnace. I think more people have tried COE HOTW and COF

Wylf.2586:

Am I the only one that smells the stench of troll-sweat in this thread?

in actuality, the dungeon community actually does use AP as a filter for parties, so the main difference is he is asking this question to the larger community. Basically even if this is a troll, it represents an existing situation that is thought to be somewhat true.