Guild Wars 2

thieves, elementalists, necromancers etc. get passive signet that grants swiftness (your character runs faster).

but guardians, engingeers and warriors for example dont have that.

if other classes got that, why dont these?
of course i feel it’s a disadvantage.
and please don’t tell me alternative options. it’s slipping from the point i’m trying to make here.

this thread is about why some classes have passive swiftness and others don’t.
explain!

Theme. Elemetnalists, Rangers, and Thieves are all supposed to be mobile, hence the 25% movement speed signet. Necromancers are supposed to be extremely difficult to escape, hence the same thing.

It’s not swiftness. It’s only 25%. There ARE alternatives for those classes be it traits or runes. If this is the case guardian will need more condition access. Thieves will need protection access. Necros will need to gain more mobility.

Hopefully you can see where homogenization is a slippery slope.

Edit: eles CAN maintain perma swiftness through traits on top of signet of air(which blinds and breaks stun, thieves only blinds no stunbreak -activatable portion of course).

Warriors has it in term of their traits in the Discipline track. You have to have a melee weapon equipped though.

Engineers are the second fastest class in the game if traited with Speedy Kits, the fastest is shortbow Thief.

Warriors have a traitable swiftness when carrying certain weapons.

Warriors have the trait Warrior’s Sprint which gives them 25% increase while wielding melee weapons and engineers have Speedy Kits which gives them access to perma swiftness just by switching between two kits.

Pockethole.5031:

but guardians, engingeers and warriors for example dont have that.

…and mesmers do not even exist in the game…

Nothing, because just because a skill exists, doesn’t mean every class should have it. Guardians, rangers, eles, and warriors have a signet that increases armor but it doesn’t mean every one should have it.

Every class has ways of improving movement, but it doesn’t have to be through a signet. Thieves and rangers are supposed to be highly mobile, and actually cannot attain permaswiftness on their own unless with specific builds.

Necromancers have terrible mobility, and even with perma swiftness, they have no movement skills that are faster than walking, therefore Signet of the Locust is rightfully deserved— not to mention with a terrible active that makes it a clear sacrifice.

It would be horrifically redundant in warriors/engies.

The only class worthy of the signet is the Guardian, although they have retreat which is apparently as far as Anet wants with them.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Pockethole.5031:

but guardians, engingeers and warriors for example dont have that.

…and mesmers do not even exist in the game…

LOL. I noticed that too.

thank you! this was very informative.
getting around fast is really a luxury. maybe i shouldn’t have started with thief and traited for acrobatics.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Pockethole.5031:

but guardians, engingeers and warriors for example dont have that.

…and mesmers do not even exist in the game…

i haven’t gotten into the game very majorily yet. i don’t even have a single 80 yet. my thief is level 71 but i’m playing another class right now.

That being said, playing a thief, and then hopping to other class just makes the game feel like it’s in slow motion, lol.

I think your concerns are valid, btw.

Guardians have it the worst with no 25% movement speed in either traits or signets. The only access to swiftness a guardian has are tied to defensive builds through shouts and staff. With zero access to any swiftness, offensive builds are limited to using traveler runes on most builds.

Mesmers are a close second.

Shanks.2907:

Guardians have it the worst with no 25% movement speed in either traits or signets. The only access to swiftness a guardian has are tied to defensive builds through shouts and staff. With zero access to any swiftness, offensive builds are limited to using traveler runes on most builds.

Mesmers are a close second.

Guardians have it better than mesmers. They can run a staff, and have two skills that buff speed.

I can keep up with a zerg far easier on my guardian than on my mesmer.

I pretty much can’t live without all the speed increase possible. I love my thief because signet plus other skills and traits with swiftness. Can’t even play a warrior or engineer because they just lumber around like running through a tar pit. Can’t deal with slow.

Engineer also have a trait (power shoes) for 25%+ speed if you don’t prefer the swiftness of speedy kits. Also, engineers have one of the best leaps in the game.

The only class that deserve a look on this matter is the ranger. Signet of the Hunt active doesn’t work well with the best builds and beside wh 5 (and wh doesn’t go well with any of those builds either) theres only one trait for swiftness changing weapons on combat, which is useless. And rangers should be mobile, because… well, duh, they’re rangers, being mobile on terrain and use of to enviroment to their benefit should be their things.

All of the professions you listed are fine.

If there is one class that needs an improvement to movement speed, its the mesmer, imo.

eh, if classes with the ability to want to waste a utility slot just to move faster, more power to them.

Vayne.8563:

Shanks.2907:

Guardians have it the worst with no 25% movement speed in either traits or signets. The only access to swiftness a guardian has are tied to defensive builds through shouts and staff. With zero access to any swiftness, offensive builds are limited to using traveler runes on most builds.

Mesmers are a close second.

Guardians have it better than mesmers. They can run a staff, and have two skills that buff speed.

I can keep up with a zerg far easier on my guardian than on my mesmer.

That is in reference to roaming meditation builds that don’t use a staff. In zergs, swiftness is guaranteed, so naturally guardians will pull ahead with their leaps. In smaller groups a single support guardian can give permaswiftness with retreat if traited for shout/staff cooldown and 20% boon duration but that really limits their options.

On the other hand, they don’t have a space for a speed signet anyways…

ArchonWing.9480:

Vayne.8563:

Shanks.2907:

Guardians have it the worst with no 25% movement speed in either traits or signets. The only access to swiftness a guardian has are tied to defensive builds through shouts and staff. With zero access to any swiftness, offensive builds are limited to using traveler runes on most builds.

Mesmers are a close second.

Guardians have it better than mesmers. They can run a staff, and have two skills that buff speed.

I can keep up with a zerg far easier on my guardian than on my mesmer.

That is in reference to roaming meditation builds that don’t use a staff. In zergs, swiftness is guaranteed, so naturally guardians will pull ahead with their leaps. In smaller groups a single support guardian can give permaswiftness with retreat if traited for shout/staff cooldowns.

On the other hand, they don’t have a space for a speed signet anyways…

Honestly, one of the reasons I don’t like playing guardians as much is because they only have two weapons sets and I want to use three. I’m forever swapping the staff in and out and it’s annoying to me.

I’d love to see a three weapon swap instead of a two.

It’s definitely a slow class. I often use have to use retreat when not in a group or use the aforementioned traveler runes but that’s annoying for different reasons.

I’m addicted to Rune of the Traveler or Rune of Speed on my Guardian.

I cannot not have it.

Pockethole.5031:

thieves, elementalists, necromancers etc. get passive signet that grants swiftness (your character runs faster).

but guardians, engingeers and warriors for example dont have that.

if other classes got that, why dont these?
of course i feel it’s a disadvantage.
and please don’t tell me alternative options. it’s slipping from the point i’m trying to make here.

this thread is about why some classes have passive swiftness and others don’t.
explain!

WHAT? You don’t want to hear alternatives you just want to complain about things? Labeling them incorrectly at that.

It’s 25% runspeed at the cost of a utility.
Warriors have a trait with that same effect if they’re carrying a melee weapon.

This issue is more in your head than an actual issue.

I much prefer the speed boost Engineers and Warriors get (a trait instead of 1/3 of the skill choices).

But in general I dislike the existence of such mechanics (in any game), I kinda feel forced to use the signet (N, E, T, R), trait (W, En) or a lot of swiftness skills (G), and dislike playing my Mesmer because he’s just so slow, because the default out of combat speed feels so slow.

I’d hope they’d eventually decide to increase base out of combat speed (at least in PvE and probably WvW, not sure about PvP) and make speed boosts only work in combat (and game modes without the increased out of combat speed, if any); but I’m not expecting any change because this mechanic (speed boost with a cost that after using it makes playing without it feel slow) was old before they started developing GW2.

It’s hard to go back to my guardian after spending a lot is time on one of my necros or my thief. Plodding along gets painful in a big hurry.

It’s called class balance.

The whole thing is a mess.

Warrior: Can trait for 25% while holding a melee weapon. Gets multiple ways to gain swiftness (33%). Gets leaps and charges that can give bursts greater than 33%.

Thief: Signet that give 25%. A few ways to gain 33% but has multiple ways to move even faster. Skills like Heart Seeker, Short Bow #5, or a 50% while in stealth trait.

Ranger: Signet for 25%. Has a couple ways to get 33% (two maybe three depending on weapon sets), and one (maybe two with the right weapon sets) way of moving forward at greater than 33%.

Necromancer: Don’t know where the OP and a few others are coming from. They have a signet for 25% or a trait for 25% if using D/D. [Edit]Their Death Shroud can be traited to grant 25%[/Edit], they have at least one utility skill for 33% and one weapon skill for 33%.

Engineer: Not very familiar and don’t know if they have a passive 25% somewhere. They can have perma swiftness if setup right.

Elementalist: They have a signet for 25% and multiple ways of getting 33%. Not very familiar here either.

That leaves Guardians and Mesmers as the only two that don’t have a passive 25%. Not sure if Guardian can get perma swiftness or not using staff. I suppose they would have to really spec into it. Mesmers are an odd case where they lack speed out of combat but have good escapability within combat. So it ends up being;
-You hit and enter combat speed.
-They get away from you.
-You both exit combat and get full speed back.
-You catch up and hit them entering combat again.
-Rinse, repeat, all the way across the map.

However, there are now runes that grant 25% for anyone and everyone.

The biggest issue isn’t with the 25% or even the 33%. These work off of your base speed both in and out of combat. Hence, despite having the speed buff, you still move more slowly in combat than out. The problem is with the skills that grant faster than 33% travel. The teleports, charges, leaps, etc. These give a flat speed that is the same both in and out of combat. Example is Ranger’s Swoop (GS #2). The distance you travel and the time it takes to travel it is the same regardless if you are in or out of combat.

In combat is where it matters most. This is where Guardians and Necros fall behind. They lack these skills. Necros have Death Shroud #2 which can only be used as a gap closer (if the situation allows it you can use it on a critter as a way of escaping). You see, all those charges and leaps can be used as a way to close a gap or create one. The necro can use conditions like cripple and chill to slow you but by doing so they enter combat (reduced base speed), and while you do too, you still have leaps and charges that can be used as gap openers. Since these openers work the same in combat as they do out, they are more effective as a means of escaping enemies who are in combat with you. The necro also cant use conditions as a means of escaping for very much the same reason.

I would far rather use a cheap trait in a line I’m going 3+ points into (Discipline) for speed than use up one of my 3 utility slots

I don’t see it being an issue. For example, warriors have the swift swinging sword dash. But it’s such a minor speed increase it’s pretty moot.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Theme. Elemetnalists, Rangers, and Thieves are all supposed to be mobile, hence the 25% movement speed signet. Necromancers are supposed to be extremely difficult to escape, hence the same thing.

Somehow given their other abilities, I would have expected Mesmer to be at least on par with the Thief’s mobility. Guardian is the ‘tank’ class, so it makes sense that they’re a bit slow.

Lack of a consistent, passive speed boost for these classes is a bit of a pain in PvE.

Jahroots.6791:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Theme. Elemetnalists, Rangers, and Thieves are all supposed to be mobile, hence the 25% movement speed signet. Necromancers are supposed to be extremely difficult to escape, hence the same thing.

Somehow given their other abilities, I would have expected Mesmer to be at least on par with the Thief’s mobility. Guardian is the ‘tank’ class, so it makes sense that they’re a bit slow.

Lack of a consistent, passive speed boost for these classes is a bit of a pain in PvE.

Please, just no. There are no tanks in this game, and my meditation guardian does not appreciate being slowed down by your logic. While a bunker guardian may not need swiftness (yet has it for some reason), a dps guardian does need it and yet has kitten access to it.

Mesmers are probably the only class that are forced to make a Swiftness armor set.

Elementalists, Rangers, Thieves and Necromancers have a signet that can serve the purpose.

Warriors and Engineers can trait for it. (And in the case of Warriors, you’re almost certain to be using a melee weapon, so it’s an easy choice.)

Guardians have liberal access to Swiftness via utility skills and Staff.

I think it depend on your build. For example, almost every warrior would spec in to the trait to boost speed so it’s hard to say warrior is at an disadvantage.

And take necromancer for example, they probably never use the boost speed utility, since the meta for dungeon use warhorn trait which give them permanent speed. and the meta for pvp I believe just wont’ sacrifice an utility slot just for the speed.

And complaining about necro is funny. I’m pretty sure it’s a terrible roamer. You’ll miss a bunch of karma in EOTM even if you have permanent speed.

Why don’t mesmers have swiftness though? We have one skill on our focus that gives 10 secs of swiftness that can’t stack (very annoying). We also have a signet that may randomly give us 10 secs of swiftness. Both of these are very unreliable.

We have one trait that increases our movement speed depending on how many illusions we have available, granted this can make us very mobile in-combat but it is also easy to lose it. So what does lack of movement speed out-of-combat accomplish for mesmers? It can’t be balance since the weakness becomes lessened in combat.

Why do elementalists and thieves who both have great mobility and active defenses in combat get out-of-combat speed boost but mesmers do not?

Class balance and variety.

It would be boring if every class had the same strengths and weaknesses. Each class has their own set of strengths and weaknesses.

KngGilgamesh.3481:

Why don’t mesmers have swiftness though? We have one skill on our focus that gives 10 secs of swiftness that can’t stack (very annoying). We also have a signet that may randomly give us 10 secs of swiftness. Both of these are very unreliable.

We have one trait that increases our movement speed depending on how many illusions we have available, granted this can make us very mobile in-combat but it is also easy to lose it. So what does lack of movement speed out-of-combat accomplish for mesmers? It can’t be balance since the weakness becomes lessened in combat.

Why do elementalists and thieves who both have great mobility and active defenses in combat get out-of-combat speed boost but mesmers do not?

So that elementalists and thieves can avoid combat.

Guardians, Elementalists, and Thieves have the lowest base health (excluding any from traits and gear). Source

Guardians get damage mitigation through their armor and traits (reflects, aegis, etc).

Elementalists and Thieves are light armor and medium armor wearers respectively. So they get skills and traits to help them avoid and get out of danger.

Edited to correct what armor thieves use.

passive speed on engineer? Trait called power shoes… i use it. Also speedy kits trait that gives you swiftness if you change your kits. Speed is the least of the problems an engineer can run into… HA! Get it? Run?

Mounts.

Problem solved.

KngGilgamesh.3481:

Why don’t mesmers have swiftness though? We have one skill on our focus that gives 10 secs of swiftness that can’t stack (very annoying). We also have a signet that may randomly give us 10 secs of swiftness. Both of these are very unreliable.

We have one trait that increases our movement speed depending on how many illusions we have available, granted this can make us very mobile in-combat but it is also easy to lose it. So what does lack of movement speed out-of-combat accomplish for mesmers? It can’t be balance since the weakness becomes lessened in combat.

Why do elementalists and thieves who both have great mobility and active defenses in combat get out-of-combat speed boost but mesmers do not?

Because mesmers with high/permanent swiftness access would be totally broken in PvP/WvW environments? It would actually likely remove the thief as a class from sPvP.

Also, GS/S War has a higher out of combat landspeed than the thief unless the thief uses S/x + Shortbow + Shadowstep + Withdraw backwards + Infil signet + ambient steals. Unless four of those are used, rifle engi also has better in-combat mobility than the thief due to the leap spamming from low cooldowns.

@OP: Swiftness and 25% signets/traveler runes are absolutely not the same. It might sound pretty minuscule, but that 8% adds up very quickly.

Seera.5916:

KngGilgamesh.3481:

Why don’t mesmers have swiftness though? We have one skill on our focus that gives 10 secs of swiftness that can’t stack (very annoying). We also have a signet that may randomly give us 10 secs of swiftness. Both of these are very unreliable.

We have one trait that increases our movement speed depending on how many illusions we have available, granted this can make us very mobile in-combat but it is also easy to lose it. So what does lack of movement speed out-of-combat accomplish for mesmers? It can’t be balance since the weakness becomes lessened in combat.

Why do elementalists and thieves who both have great mobility and active defenses in combat get out-of-combat speed boost but mesmers do not?

So that elementalists and thieves can avoid combat.

Guardians, Elementalists, and Thieves have the lowest base health (excluding any from traits and gear). Source

Guardians get damage mitigation through their armor and traits (reflects, aegis, etc).

Elementalists and Thieves are light armor wearers. So they get skills and traits to help them avoid and get out of danger.

Thieves use leather, not cloth…

Selver.1307:

It’s not swiftness. It’s only 25%. There ARE alternatives for those classes be it traits or runes.
Thieves will need protection access.

.

OWWWW..the horror!! XD

GummiBear.2756:

Seera.5916:

KngGilgamesh.3481:

Why don’t mesmers have swiftness though? We have one skill on our focus that gives 10 secs of swiftness that can’t stack (very annoying). We also have a signet that may randomly give us 10 secs of swiftness. Both of these are very unreliable.

We have one trait that increases our movement speed depending on how many illusions we have available, granted this can make us very mobile in-combat but it is also easy to lose it. So what does lack of movement speed out-of-combat accomplish for mesmers? It can’t be balance since the weakness becomes lessened in combat.

Why do elementalists and thieves who both have great mobility and active defenses in combat get out-of-combat speed boost but mesmers do not?

So that elementalists and thieves can avoid combat.

Guardians, Elementalists, and Thieves have the lowest base health (excluding any from traits and gear). Source

Guardians get damage mitigation through their armor and traits (reflects, aegis, etc).

Elementalists and Thieves are light armor wearers. So they get skills and traits to help them avoid and get out of danger.

Thieves use leather, not cloth…

Ooops. My mistake.

But they still give up the heavy armor and do not have the damage mitigation skills that the Guardian has to make up for their low health pool.

So they get evade skills and traits.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Theme. Elemetnalists, Rangers, and Thieves are all supposed to be mobile, hence the 25% movement speed signet. Necromancers are supposed to be extremely difficult to escape, hence the same thing.

necromancers are supposed to be extremely difficult to escape. by far one of the easiest classes to escape in the game.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Pockethole.5031:

but guardians, engingeers and warriors for example dont have that.

…and mesmers do not even exist in the game…

Now I’m sad….

Jerus.4350:

WHAT? You don’t want to hear alternatives you just want to complain about things? Labeling them incorrectly at that.
It’s 25% runspeed at the cost of a utility.
Warriors have a trait with that same effect if they’re carrying a melee weapon.
This issue is more in your head than an actual issue.

Alternatives have been already mentioned but not suggested in this thread.
I’m not complaining, I’m pointing it out. It looks like I’m not alone either, so there isn’t really any problem here.
Yes I’ve been told many times in my life something is wrong with my head but this thread isn’t about the structure of my brain now is it?

edit:
PvE mounts sounds good but the game didn’t have them from the start so people might not agree with it. Otherwise I don’t think there is much more to discuss about. Mount threads have been made in the past and we don’t need to turn this one that way.

Also thought if something specially on hunting field would grant swiftness. But then again it’s been made into boosters and food. Dead end?
…it was actually a market trick, so people would buy speed boosters from gem store! (gem store perma swiftness would be alright I guess)

Engineer speedy kits and power shoes, warrior has melee weapon trait speedup as well and insane mobility with multiple dashes and jumps.

Personally IMO the only class with limited open field mobility is the Mesmer.

I think the topic is better rephrase to why do “certain class have better mobility”.

I think looking at the bigger picture is better than pin pointing the 25% utility skill.

Remember you also need to sacrifice an utility slot, just like some class need to traited a certain way. (eventhough utility is a bit easier to quick switch than traits)

And some class’s meta build naturally use speed boost traits, so it is hard to say they have a disadvantage.

Main Guardian in both PvE & PvP:

PvE: Annoying. Tired of staff + shouts to just keep up with other classes for moving across the map.
PvP: Play medi guard. Plenty of mobilty. Don’t care here. Meditations are too important to replace one by a signet for speedboost, so wouldn’t change gameplay.

Signet would be amazing for PvE imo, and I don’t think it’d have much affect on PvP. But I could be wrong on the latter.

Use Superior Rune of Traveler.

Problem solved.

Runes of The Pack + Retreat + Save Yourselves and you don’t even really need staff to traverse maps. I find these runes extremely useful since they’re offensive, compared to Traveler’s which feel like a liability on my mesmer.

Shanks.2907:

Please, just no. There are no tanks in this game, and my meditation guardian does not appreciate being slowed down by your logic. While a bunker guardian may not need swiftness (yet has it for some reason), a dps guardian does need it and yet has kitten access to it.

Fancy wearing light armour on your DPS guardian then? Because logic.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Fancy wearing light armour on your DPS guardian then? Because logic.

Oh if only guardian COULD wear Light Armor because some of the heavy armor looks dreadful and being knocked down by the slightest hit makes me feel like i’m wearing light armor.. Also if it’s called Heavy Armor why do Warriors/Guardians even need stability I mean isn’t it suppose to be I don’t know heavy?, Could it be heavier?