Guild Wars 2

first of all i need to say that i am not a pve player (not in mmorpgs anyway). i played pve and leveled up my first char by doing pve only, and i found it boring and repetitive, just like i found pve boring in every other mmorpg i played in my life. i used to literally fall asleep during wow dungeons and wake up a few hours later. now i know that a lot of people enjoy repetitive and easy content, you can enter a sort of meditative state where your brain is not working under a 100% load and experience pleasure from that relaxing state, but that makes me just fall asleep. i need my brain to be under some load in order to have fun in video games in general. i know that fractals are supposed to be the solution for players that want challenging pve content but i found them boring and repetitive as well.

so here is the suggestion i have that would make pve content interesting for people that have similar problems with pve content in mmorpgs: introduce randomly generated elite mobs. give them multiple randomly generated traits like: increased speed, big crits, explode on death, leap attack, teleport, damage/speed aura for allies, hp regen aura, reflect damage etc. a game that does that really good in my opinion is path of the exile. every boss (except those standard scripted story bosses) has randomly generated traits and that very simple mechanic makes pve a LOT more interesting from my perspective. i am not saying that you should take away the fun from the people that enjoy slow paced, grindy and repetitive content, i am just saying that you should add some areas (like silverwastes) and some dungeons for players that dont like bosses/mobs that you can memorize and beat every time using the same sequence of actions and that do not want to skip thru dungeons by running past mobs or use various exploits in order to get to the end faster and get a chest and some gold.

Have you not played in Orr or Drytop/Silverwastes? Because some of the mobs do what you describe.

..or just go pvp?
…oh yeah, dd ele =x

Yeah you’ve not played in the level 80 maps much have you. The mordem in SW/later parts of DT are alot harder to deal with on your own.

I have been playing since head start, just about every day …… and I still don’t find PvE boring.

rastaman.1905:

pve is boring

You’re boring

Yeah, open world content does get a little repetitive.

We absolutely should ask the devs to change things in the world so people dont fall asleep. Kind of like a “living” world, so to speak.

Ah well. one can dream. At least we have the crisp freshness of diverse, balanced pvp.

I like the map pve only because its really casual.

The thing I like best is that I’m able to save the content for when I feel like it. With every other mmorpg, once I level past said content its a complete and total waste to even be there, let alone doing the content.

So I can level up to 80 however I feel like, which ive mostly been doing unranked matches.

Typically ill go do some map questing in typical mmorpgs, then get into dungeons, then hit endgame that way, and miss out on it all with zero reason to go back.

At least ill be able to clear maps for rewards that I can use at endgame, well really for keys I guess and achievements ect…but the content is doable, relaxing and easy…for when I feel like that.

I think this is the perfect way to do map pve in mmorpgs. They just maybe need to make dungeons more interesting (though ive never done one)

I’m like a 5 day old character btw.

So Anet should base their PvE Design on someone who found pretty much all MMO PvE Boring?

I dislike baseball, so here what I would do to make this sport more fun…..

So.. you want it to be like Diablo 3?

I’d sigh, but then again, I’d giggle like mad to see mobs with Mortar against pewpew Longbow4 rangers. :P

Rauderi.8706:

So.. you want it to be like Diablo 3?

I’d sigh, but then again, I’d giggle like mad to see mobs with Mortar against pewpew Longbow4 rangers. :P

until you realize they are teleport/jailer/desecrate elites

That’s funny. I find PvP boring. To each his own.

StrangerDanger.3496:

Rauderi.8706:

So.. you want it to be like Diablo 3?

I’d sigh, but then again, I’d giggle like mad to see mobs with Mortar against pewpew Longbow4 rangers. :P

until you realize they are teleport/jailer/desecrate elites

Uuugh, I got hit with jailer/desecrator/mortar once. So much hate.

/blink
Y’know, I’m not sure we’ve seen mobs that flat out teleport, like mesmer-blink or thief-shortbow kind of thing. Except maybe Risen nobles?

I’m mean, sure, OP kinda qq-meanders on the point, but I can see it. It’d be interesting to shake up world exploration with random challenge mobs. Though, I suppose that’s the role that dynamic event champions normally fill.

Rauderi.8706:

StrangerDanger.3496:

Rauderi.8706:

So.. you want it to be like Diablo 3?

I’d sigh, but then again, I’d giggle like mad to see mobs with Mortar against pewpew Longbow4 rangers. :P

until you realize they are teleport/jailer/desecrate elites

Uuugh, I got hit with jailer/desecrator/mortar once. So much hate.

/blink
Y’know, I’m not sure we’ve seen mobs that flat out teleport, like mesmer-blink or thief-shortbow kind of thing. Except maybe Risen nobles?

I’m mean, sure, OP kinda qq-meanders on the point, but I can see it. It’d be interesting to shake up world exploration with random challenge mobs. Though, I suppose that’s the role that dynamic event champions normally fill.

Maybe teleports and drops a set of illusions that teleport around to different players. That would be an interesting clusterkitten

rastaman.1905:

first of all i need to say that i am not a pve player (not in mmorpgs anyway). i played pve and leveled up my first char by doing pve only, and i found it boring and repetitive, just like i found pve boring in every other mmorpg i played in my life. i used to literally fall asleep during wow dungeons and wake up a few hours later. now i know that a lot of people enjoy repetitive and easy content, you can enter a sort of meditative state where your brain is not working under a 100% load and experience pleasure from that relaxing state, but that makes me just fall asleep. i need my brain to be under some load in order to have fun in video games in general. i know that fractals are supposed to be the solution for players that want challenging pve content but i found them boring and repetitive as well.

so here is the suggestion i have that would make pve content interesting for people that have similar problems with pve content in mmorpgs: introduce randomly generated elite mobs. give them multiple randomly generated traits like: increased speed, big crits, explode on death, leap attack, teleport, damage/speed aura for allies, hp regen aura, reflect damage etc. a game that does that really good in my opinion is path of the exile. every boss (except those standard scripted story bosses) has randomly generated traits and that very simple mechanic makes pve a LOT more interesting from my perspective. i am not saying that you should take away the fun from the people that enjoy slow paced, grindy and repetitive content, i am just saying that you should add some areas (like silverwastes) and some dungeons for players that dont like bosses/mobs that you can memorize and beat every time using the same sequence of actions and that do not want to skip thru dungeons by running past mobs or use various exploits in order to get to the end faster and get a chest and some gold.

Hahaha, i can already see ppl going stealth and skip those mobs, and get a chest and some gold are the only reason most ppl even play dungeons, i’d never step in CoF again if that run was turned into a 15 min run.

rastaman.1905:

so here is the suggestion i have that would make pve content interesting for people that have similar problems with pve content in mmorpgs: introduce randomly generated elite mobs. give them multiple randomly generated traits like: increased speed, big crits, explode on death, leap attack, teleport, damage/speed aura for allies, hp regen aura, reflect damage etc. a game that does that really good in my opinion is path of the exile. every boss (except those standard scripted story bosses) has randomly generated traits and that very simple mechanic makes pve a LOT more interesting from my perspective. i am not saying that you should take away the fun from the people that enjoy slow paced, grindy and repetitive content, i am just saying that you should add some areas (like silverwastes) and some dungeons for players that dont like bosses/mobs that you can memorize and beat every time using the same sequence of actions and that do not want to skip thru dungeons by running past mobs or use various exploits in order to get to the end faster and get a chest and some gold.

so, you want a fractal like experience somewhere else?

fractal does generate an annoying mossman that hits and leave. There are other instabilities that add conditions.

I really do not think this change will hope since the silver mob inherits the old AI.

there is already challenging solo pve content. just go solo dungeons. It is quite interesting.

I really like the OPs suggestion.

BINGO

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

You COULD play with hardcore rules(which I conveniently have a forum post on(shameless plug))

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

You COULD play with hardcore rules(which I conveniently have a forum post on(shameless plug))

Yeeeahno. Saw that litany of rules. The bigger challenge is remembering all the wonky, poorly-thought ‘rules’ that went along with it.

Not to say a “Lifetime” or “Career” style of play wouldn’t be interesting, but arbitrary junk like “50 gold to unlock dodging” or “can’t change gear” is just.. dumb. >_>

I could see simple things like:
No bank access. (Or, if there’s room, limited to one bank tab.)
Cannot use Deposit Materials and must carry everything in available bags.
No waypoints.
No Trading Post access or gear vendors. (You can only use what you make or find.)
Can only change/learn skills in capital cities or Lion’s Arch.
And of course, if dead, delete.

id imagine coming composed about complaints would make anets jobs easier than having to scroll thru the baseless whining. the game has been quite functional for the 3 years its been out but with the expac i expect yet another wave of whiners to leave as soon as they come into the game, research the game before you buy it. try wvw, pvp or spvp if you already dislike pve (as stated). complaining about pve and still doing it is a catch 22 and on you reguardless. we dont all want fluffy unicorns, princess.

if you find the game boring, go play some other game
do fractals/dungeons with pugs, always fun because half the time it fails spectacularly, even if you tell them how to do things
do silverwastes/dry top naked if doing it normally isn’t fun; do achievements. wait for raids, maybe those will be fun; if all that fails => go on steam lol

oh yeah do aetherblade path, so much fun :P

Rauderi.8706:

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

You COULD play with hardcore rules(which I conveniently have a forum post on(shameless plug))

Yeeeahno. Saw that litany of rules. The bigger challenge is remembering all the wonky, poorly-thought ‘rules’ that went along with it.

Not to say a “Lifetime” or “Career” style of play wouldn’t be interesting, but arbitrary junk like “50 gold to unlock dodging” or “can’t change gear” is just.. dumb. >_>

I could see simple things like:
No bank access. (Or, if there’s room, limited to one bank tab.)
Cannot use Deposit Materials and must carry everything in available bags.
No waypoints.
No Trading Post access or gear vendors. (You can only use what you make or find.)
Can only change/learn skills in capital cities or Lion’s Arch.
And of course, if dead, delete.

So, when someone provides you with a way to make the game more engaging by taking away the mechanics that make it mindless such as dodging and your heal skill, suddenly it’s too challenging. What would you suggest instead?

Besides anet completely changing their game to cater to your needs, of corse

Scale 39 fractals are fun. Scale 35 is pretty fun too. You should try them sometime.

While I maybe the minority in this mentality, but I never thought the rewards where the issue with PvE(or PvP), but more so the lack of purpose or meaning.

People play games for a variety of reasons and game design must take account of that. One of those reasons is abnegation. Sometimes after a hard days work you just want to mow down a couple thousand zombies and not meet a single crushing challenge.

GW2 should have, and does have, a variety of content in terms of challenge. With the addition of raids they’re upping the bar for the elite player. This is as it should be.

Yes, if you haven’t tried the level 80 areas you should find some challenge there. Higher level Fractals require more of a player. And, find a guild that is interested in raiding. There will be something here that frees you from your boredom.

To me, PvE is the only good thing this game offers. SPvP and WvW are some of the most boring things I’ve done in an mmo. I would primarily call myself a PvP player too in other games.

Fernling.1729:

To me, PvE is the only good thing this game offers. SPvP and WvW are some of the most boring things I’ve done in an mmo. I would primarily call myself a PvP player too in other games.

I fall into the exact same category.

GW2’s PvE is underwhelming by every single definition and measure. That’s why you play this game for the WvW and PvP.

Vayne.8563:

That’s funny. I find PvP boring. To each his own.

Reverence.6915:

GW2’s PvE is underwhelming by every single definition and measure. That’s why you play this game for the WvW and PvP.

Similar failures of PvE plague PvP aswell. Lack of purpose, depth, and meaning exist in both. While WvW/PvP has the minor benefit of being random due to player control, it still becomes repetitive, has lack of reward and consequence, and is overall lackluster.

Thaddeus.4891:

So Anet should base their PvE Design on someone who found pretty much all MMO PvE Boring?

I dislike baseball, so here what I would do to make this sport more fun…..

They already do something akin to that. All of those strange nerfs we get in pve are solely to balance things for pvp.

All they have to do is make the orr mobs all vets and have them use their specific abilities more frequently. That kitten would be scary as hell haha.

InsidiousWaffle.7086

So, when someone provides you with a way to make the game more engaging by taking away the mechanics that make it mindless such as dodging and your heal skill, suddenly it’s too challenging. What would you suggest instead?

I start by not swallowing the bait hook, line, and sinker, for one. It’s not that the idea is even too challenging. It’s that the idea is fraught with needless complications that makes everything less enjoyable.

The perma-death option could be an interesting challenge, but that web guy’s list is obnoxiously arbitrary and, especially for dodging, defies one of the game’s core mechanics. Dodging and healing are the opposite of mindless, by the way. Banning dodge and heal leads to mashing 1-5 and fighting mobs that aren’t even interesting. And for the sole interest of preserving the character, it leads to even more risk-adverse behavior, which is boring.

i think people are confusing the word “challenge” with the word “handicapped”.
lots of people love challenge in their rl, no one cuts of their leg because of it -.-

i think pvp would be 10 times more fun, if it wasn’t so easy to abuse and if exploitors where removed.
for the openworld stuff, it is the area that determines it, but it would be cool with an option to turn on “hardmode” which would essentially nerf your stats all over (downlvl you much lower then the area’s lvl) and then give you an equal bonus to all rewards

Linfang.1087:

Have you not played in Orr or Drytop/Silverwastes? Because some of the mobs do what you describe.

did not played drytop but i did play silverwastes and orr. the mobs i describe are from another game (poe) and they are nowhere to be found in gw2 (or any other mmorpg), at least i have never seen them. they are basically generic mobs but they use multiple player abilities and some unique abilities and auras and can be quite challenging and certainly do not allow you to kill them without paying a lot of attention to what you and they are doing.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Yeah you’ve not played in the level 80 maps much have you. The mordem in SW/later parts of DT are alot harder to deal with on your own.

yes i did play them but not a lot, because i found them boring, repetitive and not challenging. i realize a lot of the people want it just that way but i am pointing out that there are some of us who dont. that does not mean that i want the all of the content to be changed, just some content to be added for people with different preferences when it comes to pve.

Jerus.4350:

Fernling.1729:

To me, PvE is the only good thing this game offers. SPvP and WvW are some of the most boring things I’ve done in an mmo. I would primarily call myself a PvP player too in other games.

I fall into the exact same category.

WHAT Jerus you disappoint me. You don’t like the PvP, you break my heart.

Thaddeus.4891:

So Anet should base their PvE Design on someone who found pretty much all MMO PvE Boring?

I dislike baseball, so here what I would do to make this sport more fun…..

i do not dislike pve, i just dislike mmorpg pve, because everyone is trying to copy the wow success formula and make money. i also do not dislike shooters, but i dislike counterstrike and all of its clones. the situation we have in mmorpg is that every game is a counterstrike (wow) clone. and i never said anet should base their pve design on my preferences, if you read my post you will notice that i said that they should add a zone for people with different pve preferences.

people that like baseball style gameplay but do not like baseball can play cricket or softball. in mmorpgs, you do not have alternatives when it comes to pve, everything is wow style repetitive pve. gw1 was one of the first mmorpg games to introduce a no subscription model and to introduce a pvp system that does not force you to grind pve. i dont see any reason why gw2 should not be the first mmorpg to introduce non repetitive pve zones.

You would have loved the clockwork/molten alliance invasions, OP. Reasonably hard mobs everywhere on a given map. I add reasonably hard because some people, like probably you too from your post, would not see a clockwork horror champion as challenging, but for the large majority of people, they were.

If it had not only be this pesky open world stuff with that mob of random peasant running around, my oh my, how great would it have been(yes, a little sarcasm hurts no one…)

StrangerDanger.3496:

Rauderi.8706:

So.. you want it to be like Diablo 3?

I’d sigh, but then again, I’d giggle like mad to see mobs with Mortar against pewpew Longbow4 rangers. :P

until you realize they are teleport/jailer/desecrate elites

i have not played diablo 3, but having teleporting mobs that can cc you or hit big crits would surely force you to think about your full zerker for all pve content policy. that fact alone would make things more interesting. that is my perspective, i know that a lot of people like it just the way it is, but i see no reason why we cant have both. different zones, different pve content.

laokoko.7403:

there is already challenging solo pve content. just go solo dungeons. It is quite interesting.

i heard people doing that but i never thought to try it myself. good advice.

Pyr O Desolation.5017:

id imagine coming composed about complaints would make anets jobs easier than having to scroll thru the baseless whining. the game has been quite functional for the 3 years its been out but with the expac i expect yet another wave of whiners to leave as soon as they come into the game, research the game before you buy it. try wvw, pvp or spvp if you already dislike pve (as stated). complaining about pve and still doing it is a catch 22 and on you reguardless. we dont all want fluffy unicorns, princess.

by far the worst reply in the comment section. 0 arguments for or against my proposal. random talk about nothing and fluffy unicorns.

rastaman.1905:

Linfang.1087:

Have you not played in Orr or Drytop/Silverwastes? Because some of the mobs do what you describe.

did not played drytop but i did play silverwastes and orr. the mobs i describe are from another game (poe) and they are nowhere to be found in gw2 (or any other mmorpg), at least i have never seen them. they are basically generic mobs but they use multiple player abilities and some unique abilities and auras and can be quite challenging and certainly do not allow you to kill them without paying a lot of attention to what you and they are doing.

Some mobs in GW2 have player abilities.
Because [kitten] those [kittening] longbow-4 spamming [kittens].
/huff

I have to wonder the ramifications for having a drop item that you hit a mob with and it turns it into a randomized champion enemy. Like the candy corn exploit, but actually hard. :P

you can actually go to a level 80 area with lower armor and 0 runes, there’s a lot of thing you can do to make it interesting, GW2 is mostly casual, and there’s so little hardcore-elitist content, and that’s fine with me, wait for Hot they said is epic hard… and grindding is a rule in every single MMO…

Thaddeus.4891:

Jerus.4350:

Fernling.1729:

To me, PvE is the only good thing this game offers. SPvP and WvW are some of the most boring things I’ve done in an mmo. I would primarily call myself a PvP player too in other games.

I fall into the exact same category.

WHAT Jerus you disappoint me. You don’t like the PvP, you break my heart.

I want to so badly, SO badly, but I just can’t get into it. I’ll give it a whirl for like an hour each week just hoping that I’m missing something about it and someday it’ll click and I’ll enjoy it (it worked in one of my old games), but every time I just go in, play for a bit, and I don’t know, I just feel like the gameplay is sloppy.

Too many variables, too harsh of counters, but not only that it’s not counters within play (RPS style) but within builds. Now, highend play, I think things change as people will conform a bit more to certain elements as with a competent and organized team you can shore up any weakness in a single individual’s build. If the one player builds for something and leaves out condi cleanse, no worries your buddy has your back. So it’s surely different when you’re working as a full team as counters aren’t as harsh, but in queue’d play… naw.

If you’re solo queueing and you’re playing a build without condi cleanse or stunbreaks and you come up against someone focusing on that… you’re dead. And, that’s where I find it really troubling. This is the ONLY game I’ve ever played where I find myself in a situation where the best option is to run away… RUN AWAY, let that sink in for a second. Fast action packed combat and you’re running away! WTF!

My last MMO had what I still feel is the best MMO PVP ever, it was DCUO, where I’d say GW2 takes the normal MMO concept and smashes it together with a more adventure RPG type game (think Ocarina of time for example) DCUO was the same but with a fighting game, so think Tekken/MK/Virtual Fighter (;)) type play. In that game I NEVER ran from a fight, as if I played well even if they were my strongest counter class if I played lights out perfect I could beat them or at least last long enough for backup to arrive, and yes this is talking at the high end as well, best players vs best players. I watch these PVP tournaments and I just don’t see that same possibility of excellence and perfection. I see sloppiness. That’s not to insult those players, they’re far better at it than I am, but I simply get no feeling of motivation to get better when… that… is what I’d be achieving. It’s simply not a game I want to play, again, looks and feels sloppy.

Sorry to rant, but PVP is really troubling me right now in that I feel like that’s the playstyle that they’re trying to shift PVE to. Colin with his comments about highend PVP being the only area where you use your full set of skill… it got me worried. I don’t want to see my clean PVE change into that sloppy PVP style. I do very much want more challenging PVE but I want it to be a step forward in the same direction as what we have, not a dodgeroll back into something completely new.

I’m a PvE guy mostly… i’ve been playing three years and i’m only lvl 180 ish in wvw and almost done with deer rank in spvp… tbh, wvwvw bores the hell out of me. all it seems to be is follow zerg as they wander to capture events uncontested… maybe gang up on a few wandering souls who didn’t see the dust cloud coming from a mile away… try to get a hit in on things before they die… rinse repeat 4ever… pvp has some challenge to it, but i seem to only be getting into like 3-4 diff maps all the time… it gets repetitive as well. I know I know PvE does a lot of that too, but there are a lot more places to go for a change of scenery and pace.