Guild Wars 2

i love this game the only thing i see needs fixing is profession roles like when we all zerg a champ no one knows who is doing what just one big mass attcking the champ i think it was a mistake not to have a healing profession and so o what do you all thinkgood are mean reply is fine

No one needs to know what anyone is doing. We don’t need DEDICATED healers. There are roles and people who do heal. You speak as if there’s no healing in this game at all.

In any case, protection in Guild Wars has always been more effective than healing. In the paraphrased words of the devs, healing is what you do when you’re already losing.

I’d much rather not take damage in the first place than have someone heal me after I’m already damaged.

So things like blind really help. Same with vulnerable. If something is vulnerable it’s easier to kill, no matter who casts it. If something is weakened it does less damage.

Healing is fine for what it is, but it’s not the best way to support a party.

Btw, if you run with friends and guildies then you do know, basically what people are doing.

robert.3475:

i love this game the only thing i see needs fixing is profession roles like when we all zerg a champ no one knows who is doing what just one big mass attcking the champ i think it was a mistake not to have a healing profession and so o what do you all thinkgood are mean reply is fine

Go try zerging Grenth then!

I think there are literally hundreds of other games that have defined roles, and i think if you want that in your game you have hundreds of alternatives.

I do not like having defined roles, so i have this one game.

So umm yeah ….

No thanks. I’ve spent enough time spamming lf healer for the rest of my life.

Pandeh.5248:

No thanks. I’ve spent enough time spamming lf healer for the rest of my life.

Sadly we will do it again as well because every other MMO still follows that path. GW2 won’t be the game I am playing forever so one day I will again be LFHealer! Until then I am perfectly happy with non-trinity game

Meh, what the game really needs is for healing power to actually make a difference. The problem right now is that the game is balanced around sPVP but hardly anyone come to the game to play that.

Healing power should count for 10 times what it does right now in PVE, where most formulas where healing have a impact at all they operate at 1/10 or 1/100. Just about the only place where they do more is 2-3 elementalist skills.

This because PVE share sPVP balancing, and sPVP balancing is done to avoid bunkers holding points for extended periods.

Also, there is very little noticeable difference between boons you apply yourself and boons applied from someone that has dedicated themselves to do so. This because outside of might there are no boons that are intensity stacked, and so the only difference is how long they last once applied. A protection from any 3 professions all protect for 33%, they only do it for different durations.

Meaning that points not put into power, precision or critical damage get very poor return on investment. You simply can’t trade DPS for less risk in this game. You just gimp your DPS and either retain the same risk, or worse yet increase the risk as mobs get more time to beat on you.

There are 2 classes that look like they were kinda sorta intended to be healers… but fail miserably. The Engineer and the Elementalist.

Honestly, they just need to work on those.

My Ele can burst heal 50-70% of the average WvW player’s health, as well as provide many long lasting boons.

As for Healing power, it is plenty powerful. My Ele is able to burst heal himself 14k+ every 30secs, and 9k+ every 10secs. My thief can regenerate at about 1.5k health/sec. Both majoring in healing power, and both impossible without healing power.

No what the game truly needs to fix the healing situation or make it at least better is a better agro mechanic added for example, in the suggestions tab, I said they should put the name of the players name UNDER THE MOBS HP BAR, so in case of grenth, you could see who he is currently targeting right under his hp bar…..

This helps because then people could heal their allies with aoe heals and other heals if they see them low on health, and would also help keep grenth at the back THO YES I KNOW PEOPLE WILL STILL BE DUMB AND NOT NOTICE THEY GOT AGRO EVEN WITH THIS MECHANIC, but for the most part it would help the person who has agro to run at the back so jones dont get 1 shotted by aoe because grenth is to close.
Also I talked about grenth already so look somewhere on the events section.

But yeah implementing a new agro system would help because not many people read their combat chat or can tell they got agro by looking at the boss when their is so many mobs and other players around him…. this would also help in dungeons as well for those who have agro at that split second and would make the random people together perhaps play a little better as a team in a way…

Gisei.5749:

My Ele can burst heal 50-70% of the average WvW player’s health, as well as provide many long lasting boons.

As for Healing power, it is plenty powerful. My Ele is able to burst heal himself 14k+ every 30secs, and 9k+ every 10secs. My thief can regenerate at about 1.5k health/sec. Both majoring in healing power, and both impossible without healing power.

Well as i stated, elementalist is the one profession i know of that get a 1/1 payout (on 3 skills) for the points put into healing power. I do wonder about the claimed regeneration numbers on the thief tho (outside of counting the initiative spending heal as regeneration).

Dradiin.8935:

I think there are literally hundreds of other games that have defined roles, and i think if you want that in your game you have hundreds of alternatives.

I do not like having defined roles, so i have this one game.

So umm yeah ….

About roles, because this notion tends to be used a lot in such arguments. GW2 does have roles, but these roles depend on the content you’re playing. i.e. you have to adapt your strategy to the situation, as opposed to always using the same trinity all the time which is probably what you call “defined roles”, and it honestly makes a lot more sense.

A good exemple of this : I was doing CoF path 1, and the last boss spawns crystals to heal itself. So our team took a few seconds to think about it and came out with a simple strategy. Characters that were built for direct damage (as opposed to condition damage) would break the crystals (since they are objects and are not affected by conditions), glass-cannons especially were appointed to this task since it allowed them to stay away from the boss’ pbAoE while still doing something. Characters built around condition damage and especially would focus on the boss and maintain poison on it to reduce the healing from the crystals.
Another example is that one of my guildies like to spec in skills that reflect projectiles, so in an encouter against several ennemies he will be appointed to neutralizing the most annoying ranged ennemy, splitting the team for more effectiveness.
Well, it’s not really complicated (well, it’s not like the trinity is complicated anyway), but still, that’s a strategy with everyone knowing its role and knowing how to adapt it would the situation change.

Sure this sense of strategy isn’t nearly as pronounced in the open world, that’s the trade-off to keep it flowing and accessible. Still, as a individual player you should know what your character can or cannot do and how you should put that to use in, say, a group event (if you have an AoE rez, do you use it as soon as someone is downed or wait for the massive aoe that will surprise many players).

In short, just because GW2’s roles are dependant on the combination of your character’s capabilities and the situation you have to deal with (which makes a lot more sense and is muche more interesting than “let’s use the same tactic for every combat !”) doesn’t mean the game doesn’t have roles

robert.3475:

i love this game the only thing i see needs fixing is profession roles like when we all zerg a champ no one knows who is doing what just one big mass attcking the champ i think it was a mistake not to have a healing profession and so o what do you all thinkgood are mean reply is fine

You didn’t say WHY a healing profession is needed. You just said it’s needed then mentioned attacking a champ. Unless you meant that having a healer would make everyone aware that there is a healer… so confused.

digiowl.9620:

Well as i stated, elementalist is the one profession i know of that get a 1/1 payout (on 3 skills) for the points put into healing power. I do wonder about the claimed regeneration numbers on the thief tho (outside of counting the initiative spending heal as regeneration).

Never said it was sustainable for long, but it is plenty for many, many full heals during the course of a fight. There’s more to thieves than heart seeker spam.

My Guard use to have similar healing ability, though I changed the build to take into account Pies. Now I’m far more offensive.

I’ve seen some serious healing from Engis as well, though I don’t have one myself.

Some claim Warriors can match Guardians in this area.

So that leaves Necros, Mesmers, and Rangers. Anyone know if they have any healing potential?

… but GW2 has 8 healing professions already.

Necros have well of blood, which heals allies around the player when used. You can also unlock a trait that lets your wells become moveable targets, so you can shoot your well of blood over to players in melee range of a boss, for example.

There is Putrid Mark (staff skill) and Well of Power (also moveable, like Well of Blood) that take conditions of of allies. Also, Plague Signet that (when passive) pulls conditions off of allies and puts them on you. And there are a couple of skills that create regeneration for allies. And there’s a signet that can revive up to three downed players; it can be useful, but it can be difficult to catch them in time before they fully die.

Warriors have the pretty great Banner of Tactics which does an initial heal and aoe healing if you carry it and use the proper attack with it. And then there’s the elite War banner that revives dead players and npcs in its range. Plus, there’s Shake It Off, which removes conditions. And you can unlock a trait that makes your shouts also do aoe healing when you use them.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Necros have well of blood, which heals allies around the player when used. You can also unlock a trait that lets your wells become moveable targets, so you can shoot your well of blood over to players in melee range of a boss, for example.

There is Putrid Mark (staff skill) and Well of Power (also moveable, like Well of Blood) that take conditions of of allies. Also, Plague Signet that (when passive) pulls conditions off of allies and puts them on you. And there are a couple of skills that create regeneration for allies. And there’s a signet that can revive up to three downed players; it can be useful, but it can be difficult to catch them in time before they fully die.

Warriors have the pretty great Banner of Tactics which does an initial heal and aoe healing if you carry it and use the proper attack with it. And then there’s the elite War banner that revives dead players and npcs in its range. Plus, there’s Shake It Off, which removes conditions. And you can unlock a trait that makes your shouts also do aoe healing when you use them.

Necromancer well of blood is a waste of healing power. Even with 1k healing power the most you’re going to heal is 4k. Mark of Blood heals for 1275 over 5s and requires an enemy to be near friendlies to trigger the mark and you’ll need improved marks to make the area big enough. Not to mention the numerous other skills/traits that healing power barely has an impact on. Plague signet is still bugged and only duplicates the conditions, does not remove them. The undeath signet is incredibly situational and the area that it revives in is so small that to actually revive 3 people they need to all die on top of each other.

If ArenaNet just made healing power scale better I’d be all over it. I want a necro that can siphon health from enemies and heal allies. Currently though it’s basically gimping yourself. I even run with transfusion currently which is a straight 2700 heal to all nearby allies over 3s, it isn’t impacted by healing power AT ALL. There could be so many more viable builds if they just increased the effectiveness of healing power for most classes.

Despite the absurdity of it, a warrior in a complete set of Cleric’s gear can push out some reasonable DPS as well as shout-healing for massive amounts.

The holy trinity isn’t as dead as the Guild Wars 2 crew would like to make out – agro still exists, tanks still exist, dedicated DPS still exist. The only thing that’s missing is dedicated healers, but that’s because every class heals.

Gonna ask this here because I haven’t gotten a response in the thread I made. If you want to be a dedicated healer in this game, is it possible to see allies health bars so you can effectively heal and better help your team? Or is this a game mechanic that was not included in order to discourage healing?

Most classes need their traited healing abilities buffed to the level of Guardians AH. Other classes need to be able to apply protection as well. Necromancer has some good life leach traits, but they’re just so dang weak! Warrior has heal shouts, that are too weak, and they can’t provide protection. Thief has the same problem with venoms. They sound fun with Venomous Aura, but in practice they’re weak and severely range limited. If healing power was more attractive (buffed), then maybe more people will think about healing in groups. Until then, healing power is the biggest wasted stat next to magic find. If they removed it from the game, nobody would care.

I think it is a mistake…. when a certain class is required to do some of the content.

GW2 is not perfect yet, but its on a right track.

Mesmers can build to spam heal… but its a little clunky. They can heal on shatter for the guys in the front line… its nice because it does damage while healing everyone in melee range… but even with good healing power it doesn’t scale well.

They can also heal on mantra activation. Again… you have to be pretty close to catch any of it. One of the nice things about it is that they are both instant cast… so they can both be done while rezzing someone or during a skill channel… that sort of thing.

Honestly… I wouldn’t build my mesmer for full healing. We work much better as a force multiplier.

BroScientist.9875:

Gonna ask this here because I haven’t gotten a response in the thread I made. If you want to be a dedicated healer in this game, is it possible to see allies health bars so you can effectively heal and better help your team? Or is this a game mechanic that was not included in order to discourage healing?

You can just hover your pointer over the players, can’t you? You don’t have to click or anything.

I can see why people wish there were more dedicated healers. However, I think part of the point of GW2 being set up this way is for players to be self-reliant, to an extent. You have the dodging, which can save your butt. You can also use the terrain to your advantage by getting out of a mob’s line of sight. There’s also the good old kiting.

Teamwork is great, and it’s majorly important in dungeons and such. But you also need to know how to save your own butt in this game.

I agree i miss my monk too…

How much are you people expecting the heals to restore? With ~158 Healing Power my elementalist can heal around 17% of her health and 11% of my warrior’s health Geyser and it can still be blasted for more healing. Then they still have their own healing skills.

OP, you speak as if people zerg a champ as if they’re mindless.

But we’re not mindless. A lot of us will attack with caution and gauge the mob’s abilities and adapt accordingly.

If other players have a harder time learning, that’s merely a part of ANet’s philosophy.

A game that rewards skill instead of level.
Having a healer back you up is not indicative of skill, learning on your toes and being well-practiced on game mechanics IS.

Tolmos.8395:

There are 2 classes that look like they were kinda sorta intended to be healers… but fail miserably. The Engineer and the Elementalist.

Neither of them are meant to be healers.

They’re both meant to be high-utility controllers / damage dealers.

what I dont understand is Regeneration. Since it only stacks in duration, how does +Healing effect regeneration?

if two different players with different healing stats, and with different regen skills cast regen on the same target, what will happen?

also what about passive AoE regens like Water Ele? if multiple Water Eles are standing around each other, whose regen counts?

sorry i didnt have time to read this but.. all we need is healing improvement and some kind of nerf to DPS builds (glass cannon) so theres room for something else.. because atm is nothing but DPS… why would anyone get a tank or healing build.. if you can do it with glass cannon.. faster?

I agree with OP. I’m gonna copy / paste some reasons why i think a healer paradigm would benefit this game, but just to preface, this is only an opinion based on experience and observation. I’m not taking any sentiment from the casual, console crowd as this is an MMO, not an action / adventure multi-player.

lothefallen.7081:

Asumita.2174:

because as soon as you allow a heal specialist, it opens up pandora’s box of the holy trinity.

Which also opens up complex combat situations, more class specialization, room for developers to design more engaging mobs, and a deeper skill system that isn’t balanced around dodge and down-state. It also makes combat deeper and more team oriented rather than a zerg-dps race because AI would be more specialized in PvE and players would have to prioritize in PvP. Pressure and mitigation (heal / damage) mechanics would bust the door wide open for more strategic, tactical, and meaningful group combat as opposed to homogeneous combo fields and zergs of players playing ALONGSIDE each other rather than WITH each other. I really think they are building a castle on shifting sands. It was a big mistake to design the game like this in the long-run. If they don’t remedy the shallowness of the combat, i fear many players will just not care to play anymore, myself included.

lothefallen.7081:

Dying as an elementalist 3-4 times in an instance where you never die on a warrior or guardian, only to sit there and wait for the stupid down state to let you back up. It’s not fun and it’s incredibly shallow. To this, i ask, why are there shreds of trinity-like class design yet no direct healer to balance the combat system around? Mob difficulty is illusionary and only numerical. You get pounded by a ridiculous number of mobs and it doesn’t matter how much you dodge. The systems design just feels incredibly wonky and inherently imbalanced in combat. It’s like, dying and down state is glorified in this game. Neither are fun mechanics and they don’t add any engagement whatsoever.

Why not give all classes the same survivability since there are no real, distinct combat roles for heavies vs lights vs mediums? Either that or put the healer class back in. It just feels wrong and busted that i can solo so easily on a heavy class in a game geared towards solo, but light classes are gimped. No healer class and self-heals are laughably bad and situational. It’s like the game is missing a paradigm. Since most of the content is geared towards solo play and doesn’t really support any deep, meaningful group combat situations, why not just give all classes the same survivability or cut the crap and put the monk back in?

You can’t seriously say this combat, minus the action-feel and dodge mechanic, is more fun than the first game. The difference is like night and day.

lothefallen.7081:

TheDaiBish.9735:

lothefallen.7081:

The combat and group dynamic in this game is extremely shallow and without the healer paradigm, they’ve set themselves up to never be able to design much more than what you currently see.

How does a healer allow them to design better encounter mechanics?

The healer’s role is to mitigate or repair damage, therefore any encounter mechanics would be designed around damage.

Well, first of all, it allows for mob groups that aren’t all about DPS. Some mobs for example could be healers as well. It allows more depth to combat because there is a mitigation role being fulfilled. It gives way for other players to specialize more and that in turns opens up more interesting and complex team compositions. It encourages inter-class mechanics such as the melee backlining for the healer so that the healer doesn’t die, same for DPS as well. It just opens up the platform for more depth in the skill design when you can actually give mobs mechanical difficulty without simply balancing them around being solo-able. With that in mind, grouping becomes more advantageous, although, ideally for this game, not completely necessary 100% of the time. I could write a dissertation on the concepts and systems that go along with the reasoning, but suffice to say, this would do a lot of good for the game. Maybe not a complete plus for the casual kitten crowd, but the impact of it on the current game systems would most likely be more advantageous, if done right, than negative.

The worst part about it all to me is the AoE cap. If I remember correctly it taps out at five players; whether it is a defensive or offensive skill.

fallen, you’re incorrect, you don’t need healing to create any of those interesting fights, and they make them more boring because you have no defence if the tank is bad.

there are already healing enemies, you have to interrupt them and poison them.

Healers just mean that one person is playing whack a mole, my support engi and ele are a great boon to the party, that’s enough.

People need to protect eachother already, not just the healer needs protecting. It’s way more dynamic.

needing to search for healers/tanks for groups outweighs any positive aspect of the trinity.

We can already be tanky and supporty, forcing people into TANK and HEAL is way worse than the current system. Anet have not exhausted the potential of the current system for encounter design, not by a long shot.

I don’t see how it increases flexibility, without the need to mitigate your own damage or support your own team, dps will only choose MAX DAMAGE and blame their deaths on the healer/tank.

I like being able to switch my skills for more survivability or damage depending on the group.

@The White Knights will be the death of this game, let go of your pride; the manifesto contradicted it’s values and you’re living proof of that. Moving on, this game needs dedicated healers, zerg reviving just doesn’t cut it. That or ArenaNet really needs to rethink combat encounters and severely reduce the particle effects on bosses.

emikochan.8504:

fallen, you’re incorrect, you don’t need healing to create any of those interesting fights, and they make them more boring because you have no defence if the tank is bad.

there are already healing enemies, you have to interrupt them and poison them.

Healers just mean that one person is playing whack a mole, my support engi and ele are a great boon to the party, that’s enough.

People need to protect eachother already, not just the healer needs protecting. It’s way more dynamic.

needing to search for healers/tanks for groups outweighs any positive aspect of the trinity.

We can already be tanky and supporty, forcing people into TANK and HEAL is way worse than the current system. Anet have not exhausted the potential of the current system for encounter design, not by a long shot.

What you speak of is homogenized and indistinct. I doubt you even played GW1, so i won’t bother. By the way, the enemies that heal, they heal themselves. Your elementalist and engineer only throw out boons and heals on big cooldowns in a homogeneous, blanket fashion. There’s no depth in that and it certainly doesn’t create the full paradigm set that i have in mind. I really don’t think you even understand what i’m saying, much less have any real evidence to call what i have said incorrect. All this post sounds like is " I don’t like having to wait for a healer."

It’s not dynamic, it’s homogenized, indistinct, messy, and shallow. You may be able to focus on what you believe to be those roles, but they don’t stand out in a party where everyone is just spamming cooldowns and throwing out all kinds of buffs and healing. There’s very little depth in it compared to GW1 combat.

lothefallen.7081:

emikochan.8504:

fallen, you’re incorrect, you don’t need healing to create any of those interesting fights, and they make them more boring because you have no defence if the tank is bad.

there are already healing enemies, you have to interrupt them and poison them.

Healers just mean that one person is playing whack a mole, my support engi and ele are a great boon to the party, that’s enough.

People need to protect eachother already, not just the healer needs protecting. It’s way more dynamic.

needing to search for healers/tanks for groups outweighs any positive aspect of the trinity.

We can already be tanky and supporty, forcing people into TANK and HEAL is way worse than the current system. Anet have not exhausted the potential of the current system for encounter design, not by a long shot.

What you speak of is homogenized and indistinct. I doubt you even played GW1, so i won’t bother. By the way, the enemies that heal, they heal themselves. Your elementalist and engineer only throw out boons and heals on big cooldowns in a homogeneous, blanket fashion. There’s no depth in that and it certainly doesn’t create the full paradigm set that i have in mind. I really don’t think you even understand what i’m saying, much less have any real evidence to call what i have said incorrect. All this post sounds like is " I don’t like having to wait for a healer."

It’s not dynamic, it’s homogenized, indistinct, messy, and shallow. You may be able to focus on what you believe to be those roles, but they don’t stand out in a party where everyone is just spamming cooldowns and throwing out all kinds of buffs and healing. There’s very little depth in it compared to GW1 combat.

I could make the same claims about your arguments. you response to being questioned is “go play gw1, then you’ll understand”. that’s not evidence or proof that having a healer would be better for gw_2_. could you not randomly throw out boons and such in gw1? could you just spam cds in gw1? so why are you claiming the spamming of cds=lack of depth?

GW2 is all about prevent damage than restore damage, this is totally different to most MMO we used to play. Reason behind the low healing effectiveness is to force players to either dodge or use interrupt to counter the deadly hit from enemy. This is a rather realistic approach imo. When playing traditional MMO, the only thing i cannot understand is why the only way to beat the battle is ask somebody stand still and absorb damage. This is extremely stupid if it happens in actual world, real military training will tell you to take cover while under attack… The tank and healer is a gaming formula, it is not a tactics!

GW2 is on the right track although the enemy ai is not challenging…. yet, but hey this is a rather new combat system and really do need some time to develop. The concept is extremely nice but the execution is extremely hard too; especially have to consider both casual and hardcore players.

As a game company, their first priority is too make the system and allow major (casual players) enjoy and adapt the new combat system, and next step is to make harder contents which further extend the current dps/support/control system.

Without a healer class, doesn’t mean healing is worthless, never; but it is only the last resort after failure of block/interrupt/dodge/CC.

I think people don’t understand why healing is so weak, but it’s not too hard to understand their rationale: They made healing weaker so that a player cannot build themselves 100% around healing, as that basically circumvents the “no trinity” dynamic they were going for.

Think about it, it makes sense. If you’re trying to get rid of dedicated healers but allow players to construct a build for themselves which produces incredibly reliable healing, how exactly did you get rid of dedicated healers? You didn’t, not really. It doesn’t and would not enhance GW2’s combat in any significant manner whatsoever and I have never understood why people think it’s “more fun” to put your fate into some other person’s hands and hope they can do a good job healing you. I find that extremely frustrating myself.

And I can’t honestly say that I think that it’s bad for the game to lack healers. I can’t possibly enjoy combat without having someone else heal me? Is that really what’s missing for you? Because I’ll tell you what, I enjoy combat in GW2 more than I ever liked GW1’s combat. So maybe the problem isn’t the lack of healers, maybe the problem is that you don’t like having to self-manage your own character. To which I say “oh well, that’s how this game’s meant to work”.

Maybe people just need to accept that this game’s combat is a “different strokes for different folks” sort of thing, rather than trying to radically reinvent it.

kitanas.3596:

lothefallen.7081:

emikochan.8504:

fallen, you’re incorrect, you don’t need healing to create any of those interesting fights, and they make them more boring because you have no defence if the tank is bad.

there are already healing enemies, you have to interrupt them and poison them.

Healers just mean that one person is playing whack a mole, my support engi and ele are a great boon to the party, that’s enough.

People need to protect eachother already, not just the healer needs protecting. It’s way more dynamic.

needing to search for healers/tanks for groups outweighs any positive aspect of the trinity.

We can already be tanky and supporty, forcing people into TANK and HEAL is way worse than the current system. Anet have not exhausted the potential of the current system for encounter design, not by a long shot.

What you speak of is homogenized and indistinct. I doubt you even played GW1, so i won’t bother. By the way, the enemies that heal, they heal themselves. Your elementalist and engineer only throw out boons and heals on big cooldowns in a homogeneous, blanket fashion. There’s no depth in that and it certainly doesn’t create the full paradigm set that i have in mind. I really don’t think you even understand what i’m saying, much less have any real evidence to call what i have said incorrect. All this post sounds like is " I don’t like having to wait for a healer."

It’s not dynamic, it’s homogenized, indistinct, messy, and shallow. You may be able to focus on what you believe to be those roles, but they don’t stand out in a party where everyone is just spamming cooldowns and throwing out all kinds of buffs and healing. There’s very little depth in it compared to GW1 combat.

I could make the same claims about your arguments. you response to being questioned is “go play gw1, then you’ll understand”. that’s not evidence or proof that having a healer would be better for gw_2_. could you not randomly throw out boons and such in gw1? could you just spam cds in gw1? so why are you claiming the spamming of cds=lack of depth?

Since you built your build like a deck of cards, most skills were, first of all, completely your choice, unlike in this game, second of all, the skills in the build were consistently integral to the build as the build was to team integrity. I don’t think you played GW1 either. I don’t think the focal point of my discussion posts had much to do with the nature of spamming, so perhaps read again?

In GW1, there were cooldowns, mana costs, and risk / reward factors to every skill you used. Maybe 1-1.5 of those facets apply to the skill builds in this game.

In the first, you didn’t have elementalists with heals unless they specialized into a healing role, which was a lot more viable in that game than it is here and even moreso distinct. An elementalist could actually play a direct healer role in GW1, but not here. The cooldowns are too long, the skill system too rigid and hyper balanced.

Healing is a backdrop in this game, no matter how you slice it. I’m simply saying that if they defined the roles much, much more (i’m not necessarily saying that the healer class is the ONLY way to implement this, but may be the easiest.) without pidgeonholing one class into said role by giving equal, yet varied options to certain classes (Necromancers, Eles, Engineers, Guardians, Monks)..there would be room for more specialization elsewhere in the team. This would make builds more distinct and effectual and would also encourage more tactical grouping than the game currently supports.

There are ways to improve this game, doing what they did with the trinity system only creates more problems than trying to re-design it to suit the game’s needs. For the reasons listed throughout my posts, i think this game would do well to overhaul the systems associated (traits, skills, class roles, and distinctions).

critickitten.1498:

I think people don’t understand why healing is so weak, but it’s not too hard to understand their rationale: They made healing weaker so that a player cannot build themselves 100% around healing, as that basically circumvents the “no trinity” dynamic they were going for.

Think about it, it makes sense. If you’re trying to get rid of dedicated healers but allow players to construct a build for themselves which produces incredibly reliable healing, how exactly did you get rid of dedicated healers? You didn’t, not really. It doesn’t and would not enhance GW2’s combat in any significant manner whatsoever and I have never understood why people think it’s “more fun” to put your fate into some other person’s hands and hope they can do a good job healing you. I find that extremely frustrating myself.

And I can’t honestly say that I think that it’s bad for the game to lack healers. Everyone tells me I can’t possibly enjoy combat without having someone else heal me….really? Is that really what’s missing? Because I enjoy combat in GW2 more than I ever liked GW1’s combat.

Maybe people just need to accept that this game’s combat is a “different strokes for different folks” sort of thing, rather than trying to radically reinvent it.

Well for one, it creates more group depth and teamwork than what we have currently. When the roles depend on each other rather than just work along side each other with rather homogeneous effects, many players find that to be more satisfying. After all, i bought this game thinking it was an MMORPG, not an online cooperative action / adventure game with platforming elements.

If I’m in a long fight with a bunch of other players and I think it’s going poorly due to lack of heals, I just switch attachments on my elementalist, or switch tactics on my guardian and lend a hand. It’s pretty much fine the way it is.

lothefallen.7081:

Well for one, it creates more group depth and teamwork than what we have currently. When the roles depend on each other rather than just work along side each other with rather homogeneous effects, many players find that to be more satisfying. After all, i bought this game thinking it was an MMORPG, not an online cooperative action / adventure game with platforming elements.

Firstly, no, it doesn’t. It places the fate of an entire group in the hands of 1-2 players who, if untalented, can ruin the experience for EVERYONE else. Failing because someone else failed at their one job? That is unacceptable to me. And it happened so often in GW1 that when GW2 promised “no trinity”, I was 100% on board with it before I’d even played so much as one second of the game. Losing because another player lacks skill isn’t my idea of fun. Me rescuing my entire party from certain failure in a dungeon by using my own dodging skills and clever tactics? THAT is good game play.

Secondly, let’s pretend for a moment that it does “create more group depth”. In what ways exactly? I see you say this all the time, but when asked for specifics, you can never actually provide examples of how this game’s combat is so vastly inferior to GW1’s. You just keep repeating the same thing. So now I’m putting you on the spot: how does GW1’s trinity gameplay “create more group depth”? I want specific examples.

Khisanth.2948:

… but GW2 has 8 healing professions already.

yes

I do not miss tab target healing however the aoe only healing doesn’t really work all that well either. I’d suggest adding a wider AOE zone or a better system of affecting players nearby. Thief hardly passes for a healing class sorry.

I usually play a healer/support role in mmorpgs and in GW1, I could heal with my Monk like no other. I can tell you this; I don’t miss it for a second. GW2 has gently taught me to enjoy myself by myself and not by feeding my altruistic tendencies.

9 seconds is not a big cooldown for a 3k heal. I played gw1.

It’s not random boonspam, they have to be aimed, they are small radius. And something with a long cooldown does not get spammed, do you even play this game?

I disagree with your definition of homogenized, trinity games are way less distinct in playstyle. When the only job of “dps” is to stay out of the fire, the combat is way more boring.

You need a healing class?

Everyone has healing skills, you don’t use them, that’s on you.

I think with everybody being responsible for everything, it actually adds a lot more depth to this game that people still haven’t been able to fully realize. Everyone needs to think outside of the trinity box and become more familiar with all of the jobs of GW2 and what they are capable of.

By simply having this person DPS, this person heal and that person tank, combat becomes very boring and stale after a while. Now, with the difficulty of GW2 being as it is, a lot of dungeons can be completed without much organization. However, every class in this game is incredibly unique and has several abilities that define them. When guild/party leaders are familiar with what everyone is capable of doing and are able to coordinate their members’ abilities, a whole new world of depth opens up.

I think if more difficult objectives/dungeons were added, people would begin to take another look at how teams can be managed. As it is now, people like to take the easy road and find some way to exploit the game’s mechanics. All dungeons have been is finding a way to jump on some ledge that makes you impossible to hit and gives you a clear shot at the boss.

We don’t need to have the same old trinity roles anymore. I think it’s time to try something new.

critickitten.1498:

lothefallen.7081:

Well for one, it creates more group depth and teamwork than what we have currently. When the roles depend on each other rather than just work along side each other with rather homogeneous effects, many players find that to be more satisfying. After all, i bought this game thinking it was an MMORPG, not an online cooperative action / adventure game with platforming elements.

Firstly, no, it doesn’t. It places the fate of an entire group in the hands of 1-2 players who, if untalented, can ruin the experience for EVERYONE else. Failing because someone else failed at their one job? That is unacceptable to me. And it happened so often in GW1 that when GW2 promised “no trinity”, I was 100% on board with it before I’d even played so much as one second of the game. Losing because another player lacks skill isn’t my idea of fun. Me rescuing my entire party from certain failure in a dungeon by using my own dodging skills and clever tactics? THAT is good game play.

Secondly, let’s pretend for a moment that it does “create more group depth”. In what ways exactly? I see you say this all the time, but when asked for specifics, you can never actually provide examples of how this game’s combat is so vastly inferior to GW1’s. You just keep repeating the same thing. So now I’m putting you on the spot: how does GW1’s trinity gameplay “create more group depth”? I want specific examples.

I have responded, but it’s too long to put as a post so i am adding an attachment.

No no and no ! We dont want em plain and simple im sick of other games and their healers with their god complex’s. It was said from the start there will be no dedicated healers. What i dont understand is why oh why people will want to come and have gw2 change when if they want to play a game with the trinity they have countless choices of MMOs to go to.

healers just make things faceroll easy, i pretty much don’t need a mouse 99 % of the time if they were present.