(edited by tolunart.2095)
is Arena ignoring bug problems
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Some of you guys are far too defensive when it comes to criticism of this game. This is a big deal for completionists – and often renders map completion rewards useless because you are 10-20 levels higher than the gear you get by the time it’s finally fixed.
Sure, you can sell it, but why bother giving gear in lieu of gold in the first place if that’s how it’s gonna be?
Some of you guys are far too defensive when it comes to criticism of this game. This is a big deal for completionists – and often renders map completion rewards useless because you are 10-20 levels higher than the gear you get by the time it’s finally fixed.
Sure, you can sell it, but why bother giving gear in lieu of gold in the first place if that’s how it’s gonna be?
Most of the people complaining unfortunately don’t come with actual arguments but just opinions that don’t hold much water to begin with. I don’t think the problem is criticism but the abhorrent lack of quality in the criticism.
My main is now completing areas at level 80. Some of them are starter areas. I still enjoy it and the rewards are fine. I don’t need the gear. It’s cheap on the TP at any level. And the rewards are more than gear. Except the capitals you do get a fair amount of silvers and materials aside from gear and things like transmutation stones as well.
A true completionist wants to say he’s done it. It’s not about the gear rewards. There are plenty of ways to get gear that are easy enough. I decided I didn’t want to craft. I sold all my mats that I gathered on the way to level 80 and made over 10g via the tp.
It’s not about defending the game but a lot of complaints are from people who just want to play one specific way and nothing else. Life doesn’t even work that way. Things change all the time and nothing is perfect. If you can’t handle that, well, I guess it will be a tough life altogether.
Let’s be honest. You talk about the rewards being a big deal for completionists. How do you know? Are you the representative of all completionists in this game or the world? Of course not. It’s just how you feel and maybe a couple of friends of yours. What I think bothers completionists more is when skill challenges are bugged. And these bugs need to be fixed. Is everything fixed at this moment? No. There is no argument that there are bugs and that it would be nice that all of them were fixed today. It’s just not a realistic expectation.
It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.
Most of the people complaining unfortunately don’t come with actual arguments but just opinions that don’t hold much water to begin with. I don’t think the problem is criticism but the abhorrent lack of quality in the criticism.
Why would a customers opinion “not hold much water”? lol Anet better be listening to these opinions because its not just 1-2 players.
You can’t just come in here and say that someones criticism is bad because you have had a different experience and you have a different opinion.
More often that not its the level 80 players complaining and the level 1-70 players who think the game is great. I thought this game was amazing until 60 or 70+ when the bugs and issues started to surface….especially when i saw orr. Orr is exactly what people were hoping GW2 wouldnt have. Its a huge zerg/farm/grind.
Also going back to your post about aion, swtor and the comparison of their release and gw2…. Aion killed BOTH of them for lvl cap content. The pvpve was interesting as well as the normal pvp and pve. Not only that but they were multi tasking character balance with the bugs and fixes.
GW2 has interesting pve but it is boring after several runs because it is just a grind for tokens. Thats why people do it! Aside from wvw and dungeons….pve is broken.
They knew (just like gw1) that the journey to level cap was going to be short. With it being so easy to cap….they should almost be that much more ready (vs other mmos) with their level cap content. It was the opposite.
Zerg Orr for hours at a time while trying to tap a boss to get credit for a karma farm is not fun. It isn’t my thing but for w/e reason it seems like the whole server is there doing it to grind.
No fix or change in sight.
My experience and opinion might not match yours…. but it is shared by a lot of people from my server at least. People who are not shy about talking about all of this in Orr map chat and in the guilds I have been in. 1 of which has already dissolved and gone back to other games. Not to mention other friends from different MMO’s on different servers who I dont play with…. They report the same issues and reactions. People no longer logging in etc etc.
You may report the opposite… but who cares? You might not. Anet sure needs to. How many players is anet okay with losing?
Most of the people complaining unfortunately don’t come with actual arguments but just opinions that don’t hold much water to begin with. I don’t think the problem is criticism but the abhorrent lack of quality in the criticism.
Why would a customers opinion “not hold much water”? lol Anet better be listening to these opinions because its not just 1-2 players.
You can’t just come in here and say that someones criticism is bad because you have had a different experience and you have a different opinion.
I hope Anet listens to everyone’s opinions but I don’t want them breaking their game if some loud minority demands so (no cases in point but I heard it happened to another MMO).
Also, I believe he meant that people are just shouting out opinions like “something isn’t good enough improve it!” and that’s okay, but if you try and call that criticism you are awful wrong.
My quest is to find the dorito.
Most of the people complaining unfortunately don’t come with actual arguments but just opinions that don’t hold much water to begin with. I don’t think the problem is criticism but the abhorrent lack of quality in the criticism.
Why would a customers opinion “not hold much water”? lol Anet better be listening to these opinions because its not just 1-2 players.
You can’t just come in here and say that someones criticism is bad because you have had a different experience and you have a different opinion.
I hope Anet listens to everyone’s opinions but I don’t want them breaking their game if some loud minority demands so (no cases in point but I heard it happened to another MMO).
Also, I believe he meant that people are just shouting out opinions like “something isn’t good enough improve it!” and that’s okay, but if you try and call that criticism you are awful wrong.
I agree. My complaints are not based so much off of the direction of the game…but functionality. Broken de’s, class imbalances, bots, DR, etc etc.
Go to the necro forums and ask if the bugs are opinion or if necro could be improved.
What really annoyed me personally was when the ranger longbow was nerfed way too much to the point of it being less damage than the short bow.
LB= direct dmg
SB = condition/dots
Without the condition damage the shortbow does MORE direct damage vs the longbow. Rangers are even playing Sb as direct dmg in pwr/crit builds!
This may not be big to some people but it shows how much thought that Anet put into before they shotgun nerfed it. They were quick to nerf and now it may be months to see if they fix LB’s. LB is mostly unused except for utility.
They are not.
To make this a really short read let me refer you to the sticky at the top of the Forum,
Ok since that seems to have changed let me refer you to dev tracker
Gunnar’s Hold
Why would a customers opinion “not hold much water”? lol Anet better be listening to these opinions because its not just 1-2 players.
You can’t just come in here and say that someones criticism is bad because you have had a different experience and you have a different opinion.
More often that not its the level 80 players complaining and the level 1-70 players who think the game is great. I thought this game was amazing until 60 or 70+ when the bugs and issues started to surface….especially when i saw orr. Orr is exactly what people were hoping GW2 wouldnt have. Its a huge zerg/farm/grind.
Also going back to your post about aion, swtor and the comparison of their release and gw2…. Aion killed BOTH of them for lvl cap content. The pvpve was interesting as well as the normal pvp and pve. Not only that but they were multi tasking character balance with the bugs and fixes.
A customer can talk out of his rear end. That it holds no water is my perception. Arenanet my think of it what they will.
For me, if I say this game sucks, it holds no water until I explain why and give reasons and argumentation. Saying that Arenanet is too slow with fixing bugs is not factual, it’s opinion. To say it’s slower than other games without giving examples is talking out of your rear end. Sorry, just my view.
And yes I can say that someone’s opinion is bad because I had a difference experience. I have a right to voice my opinions just as much as you do…however, that’s not what I did. I say your criticism fails because it has no substance. If it did, I would take your opinions more seriously, even if I disagree with you. There simply is no actual argumentation from you.
Now you say Aion and SWTOR had more level cap content at release than GW2. Again no substance. Also because it isn’t true. SWTOR had 2 operations (raids) and a handful of flashpoints (dungeons). PvP was a joke with just a couple of maps and non existent world pvp. The flashpoints were dead easy and getting gear even easier. So that left people with two raids that were mostly unplayable as they were bugged.
Aion had only a couple of dungeons at release for level 50. There was nothing more for PvE. PvP was also a joke. The pvpve wasn’t interesting for most people. The constant ganking resulted in people leaving in masses and rifting being nerfed completely.
I played both games and look at their population… within a few months the servers were emptying all over. Within 6 months server merges. SWTOR just merged the merged servers…..8 months old.
I don’t know how things will go here, but don’t tell me those other games have more content.
The downscaling makes that you can do events in all areas without feeling that you are one shotting stuff and the dungeons are tougher than any flashpoints in SWTOR.
Aion was a total grind game and GW2 isn’t.
There is content, but it’s not what you are used to and not the way you see it. That doesn’t mean it isn’t there.
oh and they were multi tasking bug fixing and skill balancing? Don’t make me laugh. Those two games took months to fix basic things and created more problems with each fix. It took 6 months for Aion to respond to some of the big issues raised on the forums and the classes were totally imbalanced and their balancing resulted in rifting being nerfed. SWTOR took months and still have bugs that aren’t fixed that were there from release. And now their latest patch blocke their trading post (gtn) and people have been reporting characters that are being deleted randomly.
No, I am not convinced at all that SWTOR an Aion had anything on GW2.
It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.
(edited by Gehenna.3625)
….The downscaling makes that you can do events in all areas without feeling that you are one shotting stuff and the dungeons are tougher than any flashpoints in SWTOR.
Aion was a total grind game and GW2 isn’t….….No, I am not convinced at all that SWTOR an Aion had anything on GW2.
First of all I said aion was better than both…Swtor was boring after a few months. In my experience and with the people/guilds I play with… They got more out of pvp and pve vs GW2. With exception of wvw but that isnt enough to hold a community on its own “imo”.
Downscaling is a whole different issue that people are complaining about. The point of downscaling was so that you could play with your friends with similar rewards as higher level content. They were proud of that. Thats not how its working and people rarely do it. The reward is garbage. So yes…you can go to low zones and fight mobs….other than helping out a bud…why would you want to? When brought up to discussion…most people i ask that say they would rather reroll so they can get more mats to sell.
Dungeons can be difficult up until the boss but once you hit a boss its mechanics are more boring and stale than any boss fight in wow. Then after your done you have a reward that is just not rewarding. I wont get into that though…. there are entire posts on that.
If you think this game isn’t grindy though maybe you should take another look at the token, badge, karma, mat, and gold grind that is happening. Same old carrot on the stick.
I said this game isn’t about grind. Didn’t say it doesn’t exist.
What’s different is that I could get geared up within about a week or so with exotic gear without going full grind like you describe.
I got one piece from karma, one piece from a dungeon and after selling the mats I gathered while leveling (and trust me I skipped plenty of nodes) I was able to buy the rest on the TP no problem.
And this is my point. There is no need to grind. I can repeat what I want, but why would I grind karma? I have exotic gear and the look isn’t interesting of karma gear.
People who don’t want to do the lower level events because the “rewards are crap”, don’t get how this game works. I don’t have a problem with doing some events that only give me half the karma.
You seem to have a maximum reward per minute need. Don’t forget this is not your job. Your boss isn’t there to improve your efficiency in time spent. I suppose that in line with the term DPS I shall call you a RPS’er. You know Reward Per Second player.
If that’s what you like, then yeah, you will be limited in your enjoyment here.
It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.
“Also, I believe he meant that people are just shouting out opinions like “something isn’t good enough improve it!” and that’s okay, but if you try and call that criticism you are awful wrong.”
I just call it kittening… er, female dogging.
“People who don’t want to do the lower level events because the “rewards are crap”, don’t get how this game works. I don’t have a problem with doing some events that only give me half the karma.”
Please explain how the game works because there are a lot of us that are playing it wrong apparently. Tell me what you do that I don’t so that I can enjoy the way you play it.
There is also nothing wrong with wanting to earn rewards for anything you put your time into. On or off the computer.
You may not like the reward system others like but dont chastise them because you can’t relate. When it comes down to it this game still has the carrot on the stick. Carrot on the stick (in w/e form) + fun = replay value.
You seem to have a maximum reward per minute need. Don’t forget this is not your job. Your boss isn’t there to improve your efficiency in time spent. I suppose that in line with the term DPS I shall call you a RPS’er. You know Reward Per Second player..
Then: “Why did you climb Mt. Everest?”
“Because it’s there.”
Now: “Why did you climb Mt. Everest?”
“Because I get $50 a foot per climb.”
You seem to have a maximum reward per minute need. Don’t forget this is not your job. Your boss isn’t there to improve your efficiency in time spent. I suppose that in line with the term DPS I shall call you a RPS’er. You know Reward Per Second player..
Then: “Why did you climb Mt. Everest?”
“Because it’s there.”
Now: “Why did you climb Mt. Everest?”
“Because I get $50 a foot per climb.”
lol…Id do it free for the challenge….I’d do it for a living if it was $50 a foot. Over a million $? yes please.
So how this game works:
“You have a quest, you are 99% of completing it spent some 4h to do that, you hope to get a reword for your level, and the caracter is not there. They say get back there when you are level 80, maybe will fix the bug by then , and you will be able to finish the quest and get lv15 rewords
So I say ok, I go to next map, I again get to 99% and same thing happens. Then I say F the map quest, I just go and level on dynamic events, I find one start the quest, we get to some point, and then we stop, and we wait and wait and wait. A bug again ?
WTF what to do next, o I know I can go to some dungeon, I find a nice team, we go over and trough walls, not killing anyone, and we just open some chest, get tons of xp)))
But again it cold be worst. Do you know how it is in _ _ _ _ _ _ _ game, well that game is really buggy. "
Most of the guys here are not playing the game, they search the net for some exploit and then go and grind and grind and grind around the clock (you even see them commenting how bad are the Korean games as they have to much grind in them, I never do so much grind in Korean game, as much as they grind here). So they get fine gear in a week, and can not understand why is some bugged event such a big problem.
Well I am come to play this game for fun, not to press one the same button over and over a gain, just to get some stupid gear couple of days before the others do. And there is no fun if you spend couple of hours trying to clear all the quest from the map, and then you realize that the last quest is bugged. This is much bigger problem then dungeon grind fest, those guys are noobs, have a psychical problem, not to much attention from their parents or something. You can not help them, as they will always find something to grind and exploit. Just ban some suckers and the rest will kitten their pants.
I’ve played WoW since beta. They fixed some bugs after release, and created new ones, then the fear into oblivion bug and intercept to 3 miles away never got fixed after 3 years.
Fixing bugs in software development takes more than a month, sometimes half a year or more. Most players don’t know anything about software development, but that’s fine, your player base doesn’t have to be all nerds.
What I see is that GW 2 had made a lot of efforts in expanding contents before launch, far more vast than vanilla WoW. The engine is great, the graphics the details are awesome, the weather effects are superb, and surprisingly enough they don’t glitch with low end cards. I think they fixed most of the engine related issues for like how long? 4 years? People were about to lose interest in the game after so many years of waiting, so I think Anet kinda pushed it a little bit.
It’s a game without subscription, and I had far worse experience with other games, so I would only urge Anet to try their best without sacrificing human babies.
I don’t work in gaming and have almost zero gaming programming experience… (I say almost, because I messed around with some Q-Basic back in the day, lol)
But I’ve come up against some really hard to find bugs before. See, you have to find the exact instance where there is a conflict in the scripts, and the more complex the code, the more difficult that can be. I spent nearly 3 weeks once, working around 8-10 hours a day figuring out what was causing a very minor but critical glitch in an alarm monitoring code. And I wrote the kitten thing, you’d have thunk it’d be faster/easier… but when you have such a massive script and massive numbers of variables…it’s very tedious and simply takes time.
Some of th bugs will be easier to resolve than others. There are going to be a few that are going to be such a deep error that fixing it will break dozens (or hundreds/thousands even) of other lines and those will take a major patch to fix. And again, take time.
I’m not saying any of this as a fanboy, or making excuses for ANet. It’s perfectly ok to be upset about a product not living up to your expectations. You can aproach it constuctively and try to be helpful and patient in resolving the inevitables issue that arrise. Or you can be critical and negative and not help anything, and do whatever you like… free market and whatnot.
Why grind dungeons? Only relevant content…
Why? Gives needed gear…
Why do you need this gear? To do dungeons… duh.
Why? Gives needed gear…
Why do you need this gear? To do dungeons… duh.
Hi everyone.
I can assure that we are definitely not ignoring the bugs reports. The team is working to fix all the major and minor incidences/bugs that the community has been reporting and addressing so far. We will keep doing this in the future and updating you about the new fixes. Be sure of that.
But still you didnt fix the Temple of Melandru’s bug since begining. I wanna buy that set but still nothing from your side. So as i told before atleast give us vendor npc and we can buy somethings for playing game.
@Paulus Beg to differ.
Good post.
No its not a good post.
A lot of things he mentions are something you cannot do until the game is actually out, also if Anet are so slow why did they sort out the log in problems within the 1st few days??
Sure MMO’s normally come out with the same problems but doesn’t that tell you something? Either these problems can be fixed later while other important bugs take priority, or that they need to be released before these bugs are spotted.
Think about it millions of players have more chance of spotting bugs than hundreds of testers who see the same thing every single day. Its often said that a fresh pair of eyes are good for game making in every area.
Balancing is always a problem that continues through out the games life span they where still doing them for GW1 so thats a silly little complaint. All of you are complaining hundreds of bugs can be fixed within the 1st month of release but your clearly talking nonsense.
The priority takes get done 1st, your silly balancing will be done later. The best testers are the players its as simple as that.
And again to the guy that says bugs can be taken out what about the Red ring of death? Log in problems that plague MMO’s? Hard drives breaking, your microwave breaking?
Every little thing has a bug in it, sure all these products have to meet a certain standard but only so much can be found and fixed in a factory the real testing starts when its out in the real world.
Would Toyota sell cars with bad brakes on purpose? No. Would Roll Royce see fault engines on purpose? No. Because it costs money.
Also you can say push the product back but the more you pukitten back the less people will want to buy it and lose interest, also its incredibly expensive to keep a game in develop.
And you may know that you can fix one bug and another 5 could appear else where in the game but you won’t know that if a bug early in the game effects something later on would you??
You cannot name one product made by humans that are 100% perfect, even rockets are 99% and thats the toughest thing in the world to build.
“People who don’t want to do the lower level events because the “rewards are crap”, don’t get how this game works. I don’t have a problem with doing some events that only give me half the karma.”
Please explain how the game works because there are a lot of us that are playing it wrong apparently. Tell me what you do that I don’t so that I can enjoy the way you play it.
There is also nothing wrong with wanting to earn rewards for anything you put your time into. On or off the computer.
You may not like the reward system others like but dont chastise them because you can’t relate. When it comes down to it this game still has the carrot on the stick. Carrot on the stick (in w/e form) + fun = replay value.
The game does have some things you can work for. But it’s not the same carrot on a stick tactic other MMOs have used. In those games you need to get gear so you can do the next raid or Hard Mode or whatever. You need the gear to have access to content and it generally takes quite a bit of work to do. Some people like this and this game doesn’t provide for that.
In this game you level to 8o fairly easily and then you have the whole world still open to enjoy as content. The rewards are a bit lower for lower level content but you can still enjoy playing it.
What you don’t seem to get is that there are also a lot of people who just enjoy the content because they enjoy doing it and not just repeating the same thing over and over again for a few statistics. And because the world is quite big and there’s stuff to do everywhere it gives you more variation.
You want something that this game wasn’t made for. It was advertised as such. No holy trinity, not grind or gear centric but just a lot of stuff to do that is fun to do, rewards aside.
Now there are rewards and the big ones are mostly cosmetic in nature but this has always been the case with Guild Wars. I just don’t understand how people have missed that.
Just one more time. You are perfectly allowed to enjoy gear and grind centric gaming but this game wasn’t made for that type of gaming and I am surprised you didn’t know that when you bought this game. It’s like you bought a diesel car and are upset it doesn’t run on petrol. Or buying a country CD and being upset there’s no Heavy Metal music on it. You bought the wrong game dude. That’s all there’s to it. And there are plenty of people playing this game who don’t have this issue.
Bugs need to be fixed, no game is perfect and neither is GW2, but in large lines Anet is doing a lot to fix bugs. That was the main topic here. The introduction of DR wasn’t just about bots in my view…it’s also about people trying to turn this game in to a grindfest at 80 which it’s not supposed to be. So yeh it was a priority amongst the bug fixes.
It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.
So, last week I went to a this motorcycle dealership and the guy tries to sell me this flimsy thing that looks like a bike on steroids. I specifically told him I wanted one of the good motorcycles, the ones with the four wheels, doors and a roof. He just looked at me funny… people are stoopid.
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