Guild Wars 2

IMO, in PvE “Stacking” is the new “Tanking”, as the objectives are exactly the same: maximize the DPS dealt to the boss (by pinning it to a single place), minimizing the damage received by the group as a whole.

That is more evident in the fight with Warden 5 of the Marionettes. If this where a game with the trinity, we would have a tank to use an AoE “aggro-gaining” skill while the rest AoE the boss and cure the tank. Instead, we stack in a safe place *(from the Marionette attack) and just keep the DPS up until the boss is gone.

Is it not the same to have 5 players stack in the same spot and DPS the crap out of a boss, as having one player hold the aggro while another heal him and the other 3 DPS the crap of of the boss? I mean, funwise they are the same.

Skillwise they are the same too. Stacking means “spam your DPS skills and stay alive”. Tanking means “Tank, spam agro skills. Healer, spam heal. DPSers, spam dps”. Granted, healers have to manage MP, Nukers need to manage the DPS so not to rob the aggro, but in GW2 we need to manage the dodges, utilities and heals.

OTOH, Stacking around the buffers is something that has existed for as long as MMO have had buffers.

One of the things I love about GW2 is that not all the bosses can be approached the same way (at least lately): Stacking on the boss of CoF1 is a lot more effective than stackin on the boss from HotW2 (even the boss from HotW1.. that AoE has downed many unsuspecting players). Stacking on some of the wardens in the Marionette event is just not feasible (thinking wardens 3 and 4, at least).

So, is really Stacking that evil?

Stacking is a fundamental part of the game because of fields and combos (also AoE limits in many instances). There are only a few situations in the game where stacking isn’t significantly more beneficial. Intentional or not, it is core to the game and likely not going to change.

Is it bad, I would say no. Is it good, I would also say no. It just is. Whether a player likes it or not is perspective.

I think people just see it as “evil” either because of how easy and efficient it is and because of personal experiences of toxic parties that don’t coordinate well because parts of it don’t follow as others do.

Fact is GW2 will never have real mmo “tanks” because of the lack of the holy mmo trinity. Boon stacking and how classes work together really benefit from stacking. Stacking isn’t GW2’s tanking, but is the most efficient way of doing most things in PvE.

Really, the trinity didn’t disappear – it was simply replaced. It’s not “stacking” it’s… crowdtanking.

To the topic question. In a nutshell yes.

Stacking as one tactic during a battle is good. Stacking for every encounter as the best answer is bad.

And yes that type of stacking gives the trinity
rebirth in some ways.
You ve made the enemy controlled and predictable. You now can apply the standard trinity equation to the fight.

Dps versus healing and survivability.
It turns the battle back into a simulation.

Ideally I think the battle should involve stacking at key times but not the 100% face tank or die meta we see so often in dungeons

KarateKid.5648:

Really, the trinity didn’t disappear – it was simply replaced. It’s not “stacking” it’s… crowdtanking.

The issue is that so many people were b—hurt by WoW, that they are frantic to bash anything that is even remotely similar. That leaves MMO designers replacing “WoW Mechanics” with anything different even if not better.

Examples include replacing Queueing/instancing with Overflows and replacing tanking with stacking.

Straegen.2938:

Stacking is a fundamental part of the game because of fields and combos (also AoE limits in many instances). There are only a few situations in the game where stacking isn’t significantly more beneficial. Intentional or not, it is core to the game and likely not going to change.

This, and it doesn´t matter what u play. Max dps builds or ultimate defense, stacking is always superior.
Range combat is most times useless. I think removing the trinity without any good ideas to replace it, was a bad trade.

Stacking for some reason also suppresses some boss abilities in PvE, making them a lot easier.

Apparently, Stacking is skill. It involves doing minimal work, minimal movement, minimal awareness of surroundings for maximum effect.

Stacking exists in many MMOs. All combat games reward players for grouping up enemies in their area damage. Players have the crowd control skills to put enemies into small groups but stacking and cornering takes advantage of movement AI to do it without using skills. If the OP is saying that this tactic works too well in GW2 then yes, I’d agree, and the designers need to come up with something that requires better tactics.

Tanking remains different from stacking. In some MMOs you do tank and stack at the same time, however tanking can group up enemies without all players stacking. In GW2 all classes can supposedly sit in the stack, use active defense to prevent damage, and kill the mobs with maximum dps before the defenses expire. Classes using active defenses still does not equal tanking.

PvE, who cares, let people stack to their hearts content.

WvW however, this is absolutely ridiculous.

Get rid of the 5 person AE cap and fix your game.

Path of Exile time because this game is so flawed that it is so frustrating to play. The problem is that it is a beautiful game, and the movement is so smooth, that I want to like it. I want to love it. I try to love it, but I can’t.

You literally could of stole every class, skill, and ability from DaoC and put it with the graphics and fluid movements of GW2, and you would have the most amazing MMO ever. The PvP would be absolutely amazing, and would be an actual end-game to a game that currently has no end-game. You guys literally stole the worst parts of the best PvP MMO ever. Why not steal the good parts? It makes no sense.

It’s really sad that a game that is so good looking and plays so smoothly lacks any kind of depth. Shallowest game ever.

Dee Jay.2460:

Stacking for some reason also suppresses some boss abilities in PvE, making them a lot easier.

Which ones?

TheGaryTh.1649:

I think people just see it as “evil”

What? People (so you say) think stacking is tanking because its evil….

TheGaryTh.1649:

Stacking isn’t GW2’s tanking, but is the most efficient way of doing most things in PvE.

Because it stacks boons? …..

Zerg meta and stacking to mitigate damage. Tanking is tanking and stacking is stacking so there are exceptions but the OP is right. Stacking as a form of tanking as define by the OP is correct.

EDIT: Getting back to the OP. GW2 meta is better than the trinity because of the flexibility to professions in groups imo. However I wouldn’t necessarily say current meta in GW2 is great either…

I guess sharing mostly offensive boons could be compared to tanking. Definitely similar objectives.

haviz.1340:

Dee Jay.2460:

Stacking for some reason also suppresses some boss abilities in PvE, making them a lot easier.

Which ones?

Spider Queen’s poison attack in AC, graveling’s jumping out of the ground, icebrood wolves leap, wurms underground traveling and probably many more

yayuuu.9420:

Spider Queen’s poison attack in AC, graveling’s jumping out of the ground, icebrood wolves leap, wurms underground traveling and probably many more

Being in melee range stops them from using those attacks, not stacking. Stack at range and they will use those abilities.

What’s the difference? It sucks anyway that it is possible to solo 111111 this boss while afk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNMltxyvAvo

Ah yea, cleric’s gear is OP but we already knew that. I’m not sure why you picked that spot to fight her there, you can do it everywhere as long as you are in melee range. I guess the person who designed that boss thought that using unavoidable (can’t even dodge iirc) three poison fields that last for about 30 seconds is not a good design because it punishes melee players way too much.

You can kill her at 1200 range while avoiding poison circles only as she won’t bite you at all and her immobilize web has only ~450 range (though she uses it anyway, that’s like a real exploit I guess). So you either exploit while being in melee as she won’t use poison fields or you exploit while being in 900-1200 range as she won’t bite you and immobilize you. Pick you poison but don’t try to justify 111111 solo with cleric’s gear as that was already proven to be the best gear in the game. Try with berserker’s next time and compare the difficulty between 130 range and 1200 range, I’m sure you’d be surprised.

yayuuu.9420:

What’s the difference? It sucks anyway that it is possible to solo 111111 this boss while afk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNMltxyvAvo

Wow, you can solo a boss while afk? And they’re seriously nerfing Berserker gear and not Cleric’s????

For the sake of completeness and as I saw only a few elements of the list, stacking allows the following:
- boon sharing
- combos
- higher damages due to melee weapons
- easier and faster revivals
- avoid hard ranged attacks of some bosses

Zerg = New Tank

However, Anet made some changes to some bosses and mobs. For example, Warden 1, tank it in front and you’re not doing any damage. Same for Warden 2 to 4. So stacking working for one Warden out of five, isn’t so bad, is it?

Look at Teq fight too, while stacking works there, it’s not the only strategy used. Someone has to man the turrets and people have to scatter around during battery defense phase.

The same can be said for new 3-Headed Wurm, requiring players to keep moving around.

Stacking works most of the time and a viable and legit strategy. However, we see Anet making good changes to mechanics that somewhat reduces the effectiveness or at least force players into doing different style of gameplay

“Stack and Smack” is the new “Tank and Spank.”

Fror.2163:

For the sake of completeness and as I saw only a few elements of the list, stacking allows the following:
- boon sharing
- combos
- higher damages due to melee weapons
- easier and faster revivals
- avoid hard ranged attacks of some bosses

Especially stacking in the corner allows also this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPZhPcyhPOg

Dear Arena Net, please do something with this lame tactics. Change active gameplay to be more rewarding than passive-stand-in-a-corner.

Add:
- Interrupt to all rush skills when you hit the wall
- Bosses melee cleave
- Allow bosses to use their ranged attacks on a close targets
- Increase radius of boons slightly

Bosses already cleave in melee (even the boss that everyone likes to brought up, namely the Spider Queen) so unless you want to increase the limit from 3 players to 5 I don’t see the reason why would you change it.

And if you allow bosses to use their ranged-only attacks on close targets, also allow them to use melee-only attacks on ranged targets, of course hitting players. It’s not fair that if you range lupicus in p1 he doesn’t kick you. Should be definitely changed.

timidobserver.7925:

KarateKid.5648:

Really, the trinity didn’t disappear – it was simply replaced. It’s not “stacking” it’s… crowdtanking.

The issue is that so many people were b—hurt by WoW, that they are frantic to bash anything that is even remotely similar. That leaves MMO designers replacing “WoW Mechanics” with anything different even if not better.

Trinity existed long before WoW. In fact, it existed long before first MMORPG, back when all we had were pen & paper MMO. It was intentionally removed in GW2 not because of WoW, but as a consequence of devs aiming for more action-oriented combat and soloability.

It didn’t work as well as intended, of course (it achieved the main goals, but only at a price of introducing many other, unwanted problems), but that is another story.

There is no safe spot in the boss 5 marionette attack.

Plus the last phase of the marionette spawns clones with a cleaving whirl AoE attack that an quickly wipe a stacked group that isn’t defensively buffed or offensively debuffing.

This boss isn’t really the right one to complain about stacking. It is not a case of line of sight cheese, but more a case of an unforgiving timer makes the event impossible unless all of the boss 5 adds can be hit with the strongest AoE (cleaving melee).

We almost failed yesterday when one weakness spamming short bow thief refused to stack. When the add eventually spawned him we had to blow our cooldowns for the 1st group, wait and blow the cooldowns on the add. The timer almost ran out. Just from one guy, refusing to stack.

The other 5 bosses in the group are not dungeon stack n pack encounters either.

Nokaru.7831:

yayuuu.9420:

What’s the difference? It sucks anyway that it is possible to solo 111111 this boss while afk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNMltxyvAvo

Wow, you can solo a boss while afk? And they’re seriously nerfing Berserker gear and not Cleric’s????

Sarcasm? I am not sure if this would be possible with any other profession and boss combo. The SQ’s gimmick is poison and immobilize, no? And the build specifically cleanse conditions when a certain number of them is reached. Also, it is using just about every last passive heal available.

The 1223 HP here do not ad many percentages to the overall healing output.

Stacking is fine. Seriously.
If you don’t want to stack – don’t stack.
if you do want to stack – stack.

That easy.

It is NOT the new tanking.
You can’t do trinity content without a tank.
You can do ALL content in GW2 without stacking if you so choose.

Overall, GW2 did a good job on making gameplay that’s less focused on UI and more focused on what happens in the fight…

But stacking in dungeons really takes away from that since there’s not much to watch for outside of a mess of spell effects squished in an awkward camera angle.

Astralporing.1957:

timidobserver.7925:

KarateKid.5648:

Really, the trinity didn’t disappear – it was simply replaced. It’s not “stacking” it’s… crowdtanking.

The issue is that so many people were b—hurt by WoW, that they are frantic to bash anything that is even remotely similar. That leaves MMO designers replacing “WoW Mechanics” with anything different even if not better.

…It was intentionally removed in GW2 not because of WoW, but as a consequence of devs aiming for more action-oriented combat and soloability…

If that was the case, it was kinda the wrong prescription. The ONLY thing I think DDO had going for it that was better implemented than GW2 was the active combat. It was MUCH more action-oriented than GW2 and they had the trinity.

What I’d like to see is better actual “tanking” for GW2, which means having better aggro rules.

Set priorities toward:
High armor
Melee attackers
High HP

Set priorities away from:
Range
Low HP/Armor
and the coup de grace, DOWNED STATUS.

Because it’s kittening annoying to be downed with four other people beating on the boss, but still being the sole focus of its overpowered attacks. [/rant]

Of course, when I say priority, that’s not to say a boss shouldn’t go for thieves and elementalists, but it should be a surprise. Also, if a smart melee character backs off to heal, someone else should be picking up the aggro.

I love that GW2 washed the holy trinity, because it means that everyone can just LFG a party and go, not wait on a 30-40 minute queue for one dungeon. But the aggro equations REALLY need tweaking.

But then ranged players can pew pew from the distance while melee ones do the entire job.

Yeah the aggro is a likely part in all this. Seeing a mob go for the staff ele, because he apparently has more toughness than the warrior in the mobs face with a melee weapon, is just loopy. People will instinctively put on more defensive gear while leveling in this game, but if they then take that into a group scenario they suddenly become a mob magnet.

haviz.1340:

But then ranged players can pew pew from the distance while melee ones do the entire job.

Odd, i thought the constant argument for lower ranged damage was that ranged was less risky. With the current aggro system i don’t see how that’s the case.

Even more so with bosses that are happy to spam out heavy ranged attacks that go bye bye the moment everyone is in the mobs face.

Never mind that the way support is either point blank on the caster or ground targeted, making non-melee support a much higher workload.

Right now the game seems to be a mishmash of traditional rules of thump (range safer, etc) and attempts at introducing something new. End result is a fish on land, gulping for air.

Rauderi.8706:

What I’d like to see is better actual “tanking” for GW2, which means having better aggro rules.

Set priorities toward:
High armor
Melee attackers
High HP

Set priorities away from:
Range
Low HP/Armor
and the coup de grace, DOWNED STATUS.

Because it’s kittening annoying to be downed with four other people beating on the boss, but still being the sole focus of its overpowered attacks. [/rant]

Of course, when I say priority, that’s not to say a boss shouldn’t go for thieves and elementalists, but it should be a surprise. Also, if a smart melee character backs off to heal, someone else should be picking up the aggro.

I love that GW2 washed the holy trinity, because it means that everyone can just LFG a party and go, not wait on a 30-40 minute queue for one dungeon. But the aggro equations REALLY need tweaking.

Tanking doesn’t make tactical sense. If I’m being attacked by a heavy armored person and a light armored person, logically I’m going to take out the light armored person first, since they’re easier to hit and kill, halving the amount of attacks I’m having to try and dodge.

When you go after a veteran monster in game, and there are normal monsters there as well who join in on trying to kill you, do you continue to attack the veteran or do you take out the trash first?

Same principle.

This game has many flaws and is broken on many levels, were just gonna have to deal with it until another game comes out.

Stacking is more like what you saw in ff11 where you set up sneak attk trick attk (i forget what the name was) where you could stack these effect on a wepon skill (a big attk) to land it on your main tank so they would get full hate from the high dmg or more of the off tank to just end off the fight. In a way its closer to team work then say a tank spamming hate ability in the 3 class system.

TChalla.7146:

Rauderi.8706:

What I’d like to see is better actual “tanking” for GW2, which means having better aggro rules.

Set priorities toward:
High armor
Melee attackers
High HP

Set priorities away from:
Range
Low HP/Armor
and the coup de grace, DOWNED STATUS.

Because it’s kittening annoying to be downed with four other people beating on the boss, but still being the sole focus of its overpowered attacks. [/rant]

Of course, when I say priority, that’s not to say a boss shouldn’t go for thieves and elementalists, but it should be a surprise. Also, if a smart melee character backs off to heal, someone else should be picking up the aggro.

I love that GW2 washed the holy trinity, because it means that everyone can just LFG a party and go, not wait on a 30-40 minute queue for one dungeon. But the aggro equations REALLY need tweaking.

Tanking doesn’t make tactical sense. If I’m being attacked by a heavy armored person and a light armored person, logically I’m going to take out the light armored person first, since they’re easier to hit and kill, halving the amount of attacks I’m having to try and dodge.

When you go after a veteran monster in game, and there are normal monsters there as well who join in on trying to kill you, do you continue to attack the veteran or do you take out the trash first?

Same principle.

And this is what happens, absent taunts, when DPS is the main determination for aggro. Tanking is not just about putting on armor and getting in the mobs face, it is about aggro manipulation to keep the mob on you.

Absent this, we need reliable CC (pull, knockback, immobilize, stun, etc). And right now we have neither.

TChalla.7146:

Tanking doesn’t make tactical sense. If I’m being attacked by a heavy armored person and a light armored person, logically I’m going to take out the light armored person first, since they’re easier to hit and kill, halving the amount of attacks I’m having to try and dodge.

When you go after a veteran monster in game, and there are normal monsters there as well who join in on trying to kill you, do you continue to attack the veteran or do you take out the trash first?

Same principle.

True enough. There is plenty more to consider to mimic “intelligent” behavior, then boil it down to a number.

So, to add to the above, other games add additional high-threat mechanics as incentive to keep attacking a ‘tank’. And I’m not talking about WoW’s antiquated “taunt,” either. Other games include bonus damage for attacking from behind (like some of the Ranger skills), crowd control, etc. At that point, the target has to decide between the target he CAN hit and the one he can’t get to.

Which means that CC-heavy characters could basically be “threat-builders.” Because heaven knows I gun right for certain annoying-kitten Aetherblades the moment they start their CC-spam.

digiowl.9620:

haviz.1340:

But then ranged players can pew pew from the distance while melee ones do the entire job.

Odd, i thought the constant argument for lower ranged damage was that ranged was less risky. With the current aggro system i don’t see how that’s the case.

Even more so with bosses that are happy to spam out heavy ranged attacks that go bye bye the moment everyone is in the mobs face.

Never mind that the way support is either point blank on the caster or ground targeted, making non-melee support a much higher workload.

Right now the game seems to be a mishmash of traditional rules of thump (range safer, etc) and attempts at introducing something new. End result is a fish on land, gulping for air.

Range combat is safer even if you have constant aggro because most of the hardest attacks are melee only. And even know a single warrior can hold aggro of let’s say mossman for entire combat with 4 ranged players pewpewing from the distance having absolutely 0 risk.

digiowl.9620:

And this is what happens, absent taunts, when DPS is the main determination for aggro. Tanking is not just about putting on armor and getting in the mobs face, it is about aggro manipulation to keep the mob on you.

Absent this, we need reliable CC (pull, knockback, immobilize, stun, etc). And right now we have neither.

I never really thought that taunts and such were very realistic. Saying “Nanny nanny boo boo” to a boss mob to keep him attacking you isn’t any more plausible than standing there in front of the boss in heavy armor while it’s being pelted by various other things that could be taken out with one swipe.

The bosses need to have the intelligence to know where the most damage is coming from and take out the source of the damage first. I know that’s how I’d do it if I was a boss mob.

In order for them to create more realistic combat, they really need to rely more on elite groups than they do elite solo mobs. Or at the very least, have the boss mob surrounded by trash, with the ability to bring in more trash every so often. Meanwhile, the highest DPS would be the focus of the boss, the trash monsters would spread out some, double and triple team some, and focus on the weakest members of the hero group.

Area of effect abilities should not have a red circle telling the player where to avoid. Realistically, how would the player know where the area of effect was going to be?

If these combats were more realistic, I wonder just how many players would come here and complain, or simply quit the game because it was too hard.

Ozoug.4158:

….. Shallowest game ever.

….and you ruined your thought provoking and insightful commentary with an uncalled for, exaggerated and blatantly false statement…..why?

TChalla.7146:

digiowl.9620:

And this is what happens, absent taunts, when DPS is the main determination for aggro. Tanking is not just about putting on armor and getting in the mobs face, it is about aggro manipulation to keep the mob on you.

Absent this, we need reliable CC (pull, knockback, immobilize, stun, etc). And right now we have neither.

I never really thought that taunts and such were very realistic. Saying “Nanny nanny boo boo” to a boss mob to keep him attacking you isn’t any more plausible than standing there in front of the boss in heavy armor while it’s being pelted by various other things that could be taken out with one swipe.

The bosses need to have the intelligence to know where the most damage is coming from and take out the source of the damage first. I know that’s how I’d do it if I was a boss mob.

In order for them to create more realistic combat, they really need to rely more on elite groups than they do elite solo mobs. Or at the very least, have the boss mob surrounded by trash, with the ability to bring in more trash every so often. Meanwhile, the highest DPS would be the focus of the boss, the trash monsters would spread out some, double and triple team some, and focus on the weakest members of the hero group.

Area of effect abilities should not have a red circle telling the player where to avoid. Realistically, how would the player know where the area of effect was going to be?

If these combats were more realistic, I wonder just how many players would come here and complain, or simply quit the game because it was too hard.

I didn’t know this was supposed to be ARMA, medieval style…

It would be a cool idea to have more bosses have block able shots as in a tank like person can get in the way of an attk and take the hit for them. So in a way we can have a 3 class system but not in how they build but in how they set them self up on a battle filed like a real life system. Where you have you melee or armor unites to be in the front lines have your dmg sit off to the side and have a long ranges support set way back. The way this game runs now i think they could make a lot of boss fights like this. I think that would be the 3 class system that ppl are craving but with out the need for build one way or another or to have a needed class.

I don’t like it. As a guardian “tank” at least give me taunt. I want to draw the enemies to me. My group mates will do the rest.

Jski.6180:

It would be a cool idea to have more bosses have block able shots as in a tank like person can get in the way of an attk and take the hit for them. So in a way we can have a 3 class system but not in how they build but in how they set them self up on a battle filed like a real life system. Where you have you melee or armor unites to be in the front lines have your dmg sit off to the side and have a long ranges support set way back. The way this game runs now i think they could make a lot of boss fights like this. I think that would be the 3 class system that ppl are craving but with out the need for build one way or another or to have a needed class.

That would require the ability to body block the mobs, as that was pretty much the job of spear and shield formations until the advent of the rifle.

Or they could simply give us CC that actually is worthy of the name, and not these interrupts in CC drag we have right now. They may be fun for SPVP, but they are worthless for any kind of PVE fight.

digiowl.9620:

Nokaru.7831:

yayuuu.9420:

What’s the difference? It sucks anyway that it is possible to solo 111111 this boss while afk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNMltxyvAvo

Wow, you can solo a boss while afk? And they’re seriously nerfing Berserker gear and not Cleric’s????

Sarcasm? I am not sure if this would be possible with any other profession and boss combo. The SQ’s gimmick is poison and immobilize, no? And the build specifically cleanse conditions when a certain number of them is reached. Also, it is using just about every last passive heal available.

The 1223 HP here do not ad many percentages to the overall healing output.

Clerics are seriously OP. They should be nerfed, not the berserk. Proof? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYsLU-efhhY

A team of Clerics only unbound dodge key and facetank’d any and everything in Fractals level 6. We would do a higher one if we had enough AR. But seriously, we don’t bother. What is the fun of healing, tanking and AFK-autoattacking for a flat 3-hour fractal? Why would people promote this kind of passive play style? If you’re put into the Champion platform in the Marionnete event, can you heal them to death within 1 minute?

fun is in the eye of the beholder, different people find different things fun.

As for the video, i see stack and boon spam, not cleric, carrying the day. No diff between that and the zerker meta, except the zerker meta finishes much faster thanks to the amount of DPS the synergy between the 3 stats produce.

Call me when the cleric build is face tanking during a mixed pug, and then we can talk about it being op or not.

Astralporing.1957:

timidobserver.7925:

KarateKid.5648:

Really, the trinity didn’t disappear – it was simply replaced. It’s not “stacking” it’s… crowdtanking.

The issue is that so many people were b—hurt by WoW, that they are frantic to bash anything that is even remotely similar. That leaves MMO designers replacing “WoW Mechanics” with anything different even if not better.

Trinity existed long before WoW. In fact, it existed long before first MMORPG, back when all we had were pen & paper MMO. It was intentionally removed in GW2 not because of WoW, but as a consequence of devs aiming for more action-oriented combat and soloability.

It didn’t work as well as intended, of course (it achieved the main goals, but only at a price of introducing many other, unwanted problems), but that is another story.

You see, this is an example of people being overly b—hurt by WoW. I say nothing about when Trinity came into existance, but this guy feels the need to argue about it because I mentioned WoW. No, WoW didn’t invent trinity, but it is the most well known and successful MMO that uses Trinity.

This mentality is why devs are replacing traditional systems with systems that aren’t necessarily better. The goal is to avoid the hordes of people that are b—hurt about WoW, not come up with better ways of doing things. I’d like to see more focus placed on coming up with actually better ways to do things, rather than just throwing together anything that is different enough to avoid comparisons.

The overflow world boss method is a poor replacement for raid content. Stacking is a poor replacement for tanking.