learn from DAoC: CC timers!
I did find that many CC skills have quite long cooldowns and were carefully placed among weapons not to have them repeat often. The most insane of them is probably the moa morph, but I really didn’t run into many situations in which people completely disabled me for long. Unless of course, at moments in which you run into an angry crowd in which case there is little to do. But then, I haven’t played engineer much either, and they seem to excel at knocking everyone down, so I am not very sure of how intense it can get.
The only time you will get permalockeddown is when you suicide into a sea of red letters.
First of all I haven’t come across anything that can perma-CC me to the point I can’t do anything, as there are a lot of CC removal/mitigation and counter CC skills.
Second, I don’t agree with CC immunity timers – I think this is a lazy way of dealing with too much CC. It’s a very poor design solution, and I’m glad it hasn’t been used in GW2.
Nope. CC in this game is much, MUCH shorter, not just “a little shorter”. Roots/Mezz in DAOC lasted from 30 seconds at low level to 1+ minutes at cap, with very few CC breakers. DAOC stuns lasted about 9 or 10 seconds at cap. There is a huge difference. I think it’s fine as it is here in GW2. I’ve yet to be killed by somebody spamming CC and DD’ing me down. (Maybe because I’ve invested into some vitality and survival skills?)
Plus, for the whole Pistol Whip thief glass cannon spec, the stun doesn’t last the entire attack, so dodge roll outa that sucker if you don’t have a stun breaker up.
For the record, the one thing that I think overdid CC was Guardian’s spirit hammer in beta, but it’s nerfed now. Either way stability is there exactly for this. Many people simply overlook it, but it’s a good boon to have.
Some of you are making the assumption that I have no CC breakers or that I do not know how to use them. I play a warrior and I have FIVE of them when I WvW (if you count the warhorn trait that converts conditions into boons). Even so, I can still be completely shut down no matter how carefully I use them.
As for CC timers being a kludge, so what? Computer games use tons of kludges. I would rather see a kludge that promotes more complex gameplay than an elegant mechanic that doesn’t work. Go ahead, tell me with a straight face that spamming Pistol Whip or Ensnaring Roots is a brilliant, complex strategy, I dare you.
CC in this game is broken. It’s not as broken as it was in DAoC when it first came out, but it’s still broken. I’m guessing that those of you posting that you don’t have trouble with CC is because:
a) you like CC and have a vested interest in keeping it as is.
b) you only do pve/spvp
c) you like to argue for the sake of arguing.. :P
thanks,
Matt
When DAoC first started there were no immunity timers so it was possible to completely shut down another player (in some cases whole armies, if you were a pac healer) for an entire combat so that one person did nothing except die, which most people don’t find entertaining. This led to everyone rolling classes with tons of cc just to stay competitive and the game suffered greatly. This in turn led Mythic to introduce CC timers so that no one could completely shut down another player who had at least a modicum of skill.
Now, I realize that the CC in GW2 is a little shorter, but you still run into the same problem because people die a lot faster in GW2. Therefore, you still end up with some classes that can completely shut down another player, because most players have maybe two CC breakers on a timer much longer than the average combat. For instance, I rolled up a Thief the other day and discovered I can spam Pistol Whip over and over. My opponent may stop one stun, but I just whack the three key again and presto! He’s stunned again! This clever strategy worked in both PvE and WvW for excellent brain-free playing and I acquired many badges of honor.
I would suggest a separate five second timer for each type of CC. At least that way your opponent will have to hit different keys to try and lock you down instead of just hitting the same one over and over. Personally, I think it might be more fun for everyone.
Thanks,
Matt
You picked the only class in the game that does not have any CD’s to prove this point and then claim that the game mechanics need to be changed? Which still does nothing to actually prove any of this. You also conveniently forget the limited initiative needed to execute it, You could potentially pistol whip 3 times sure but it only has a 1 second daze per shot so 3x pistol whip will net you a 3 second stun while at the same time rooting your toon in place making your thief a free kill on the field.
Also anyone that manages to get pistol whipped 3 times in a row should be playing zynga games on facebook instead of gw2 pvp.
I dont see the problem here.
I merely pointed out the most flagrant example. Also, pistol whip is a stun, not a daze, and I am pretty sure it is two seconds, not one. You may be thinking of headshot, which is a one second daze.
I am also fairly certain that I could perma-stun you with pistol whip. I did it to a lot of people in WvW the other night, because WvW is kind of chaotic. I am guessing you do pve and spvp smallball stuff, which is why you think it is hard. Have fun with those zynga games!
-Matt
We’re arguing because we think CC timers are a lame mechanic. It’s what devs do when they’ve kittened up their skill system so badly they don’t know how else to fix it.
I play warrior in WvW and sPvP and the only time I get shut down completely is when I get focus fired by a whole group of people. That’s the bit you have to try and avoid.
Like campana said stun lock only occurs when you have like 4 or 5 on hacking on you. Pistol whip is 1 second and locks you into place for more then that and anyone bad enough to even get struck by it twice in a row deserves it , it is as simple as that.
I merely pointed out the most flagrant example. Also, pistol whip is a stun, not a daze, and I am pretty sure it is two seconds, not one. You may be thinking of headshot, which is a one second daze.
I am also fairly certain that I could perma-stun you with pistol whip. I did it to a lot of people in WvW the other night, because WvW is kind of chaotic. I am guessing you do pve and spvp smallball stuff, which is why you think it is hard. Have fun with those zynga games!
-Matt
While this conversation is probably going nowhere, I’ll just throw a few more things in here. I play WvW. That’s all I do, because for me, WvW is endgame in GW2. I have a bit of experience with WvW, lvl 80 thief main (no, not a glass-cannon or HS/PW spammer). The ONLY time I’ve seen someone killed solely by CC spam by one person is when that player is new to the whole PvP deal. When they log some hours and get used to the system and professions, they’ll adapt and stop eating dirt.
I regularly end fights (1v1, 1v2) with 80%+ HP. Do I say my class/build is OP? No, I played inexperienced or non-80 people. There are very few “pro” players yet, the game is still young.
On any given night, I finish my dailies do group stuff if there are enough guildies on and then spend the rest of the night in WvW.
My first run ever out there, I ended up getting perma-immobilized by somekittencharmed Moa (I believe), it would expire and immediately reapply, over and over and over.
I don’t know what that was, I may have been misinterpreting the situation but needless to say I died.
At any rate, that’s the first and last time that happened, I haven’t been locked down at all since, so to me, CC timers seem fine as is. I play mostly at range and I’m a Mesmer, so maybe they’re just CCing my illusions? I don’t know.
I merely pointed out the most flagrant example. Also, pistol whip is a stun, not a daze, and I am pretty sure it is two seconds, not one. You may be thinking of headshot, which is a one second daze.
I am also fairly certain that I could perma-stun you with pistol whip. I did it to a lot of people in WvW the other night, because WvW is kind of chaotic. I am guessing you do pve and spvp smallball stuff, which is why you think it is hard. Have fun with those zynga games!
-Matt
Matt,
I have found the vast majority of players in this game does not read or comprehend anything that’s not “I love you Anet”. Seriously you very specifically laid out Pistol whip for your example, and person after person says you have no example of this. You even said you yourself stun locked someone to death. Still they ignore that too. You even told them you have a warrior and a thief yet ppl don’t listen to that either. Sad but true.
Id much rather see a game that keeps CC balance in check…Unlike in early days of DAoC or how WoW is right now. The pvp in WoW is soo horrendous due to CC. I believe CC for the most part though right now is in a fairly decent spot. Its not to ridiculous yet, only annoying thing I have found is the permanent cripple. You break out of cripple and you are pretty much instantly crippled yet again.
There are probably a few classes that should be looked at and tweaked, like you said…the thief. Most other classes though seem alright.
I merely pointed out the most flagrant example. Also, pistol whip is a stun, not a daze, and I am pretty sure it is two seconds, not one. You may be thinking of headshot, which is a one second daze.
I am also fairly certain that I could perma-stun you with pistol whip. I did it to a lot of people in WvW the other night, because WvW is kind of chaotic. I am guessing you do pve and spvp smallball stuff, which is why you think it is hard. Have fun with those zynga games!
-Matt
Matt,
I have found the vast majority of players in this game does not read or comprehend anything that’s not “I love you Anet”. Seriously you very specifically laid out Pistol whip for your example, and person after person says you have no example of this. You even said you yourself stun locked someone to death. Still they ignore that too. You even told them you have a warrior and a thief yet ppl don’t listen to that either. Sad but true.
Thank you for adding absolutely nothing to the conversation. We’re trying to discuss why one system is in place over another, that’s all. I have no “I love you Anet” deal going on because I’m angry about quite a few things in the game. We’re talking about a good topic here and off you go generalizing all the current system supporters as some kind of blind fanatical Anet-worshiping cult. Wake up please… it’s not so black and white.
With proper support providing stability its a non issue. I couldnt disagree more