Guild Wars 2

The biggest problem when trying to make a celestial ranger, mesmer, thief and necro is that you are not getting much from the healing power like ele, engi and warriors.

The problem with guard is that you dont get much from the condi dmg.

There are some traits that would make those classes make use of those stats but they are all so spread out that you cant make a solid build.

Anet should work on making celestial viable for all the classes.

Ps: talking about wvw/pvp

How?

“that you are not getting much from the healing power like ele, engi and warriors.”
Do they increase what you get for traits for certain professions, but not others?

“The problem with guard is that you dont get much from the condi dmg.”
Do they homogenize the classes so that, for example, a guardian puts out the same amount of condition damage as a necro?

It’s a niche build. What changes would they have to make to make it viable for all classes?

Astral Projections.7320:

How?

“that you are not getting much from the healing power like ele, engi and warriors.”
Do they increase what you get for traits for certain professions, but not others?

“The problem with guard is that you dont get much from the condi dmg.”
Do they homogenize the classes so that, for example, a guardian puts out the same condition damage as a condition specced necro?

It’s a niche build. What changes would they have to make to make it viable for all classes?

How to do it: Tweak some numbers on the way some skills scale. Changing/merging/relocating some traits

Compare healing signet, signet of restoration and healing with other professions’ healing skills, some classes are benefiting more than others.

Necros are not the only that can use condi. It is not a nich. Actually almost every class can run a good condi build. The problem is that you cant get the condition traits without sacrificing all the other good traits on guardian, therefore making the celestial not optimal like on ele/war/engi.

Now I don’t know much about Cele kiting a necro or thief, but I can tell you a Cele ranger is totally possible, and pretty effective as a sustainable dps.

All other stats aside (no need explaining), rangers really do benefit from healing power. Rangers have some of the most powerful regeneration traits/passives in the game, the small number increases add up massively over time, and Cele fights are nothing but time. Also, the water combo fields combine well with ranger leaps and blasts, giving more use to the Healing Power of Cele specs.

The issue isn’t so much that the classes are shut out from Cele, it’s just certain classes can make better use of sustain using their innate kits.

Why should they make celestial work well on all classes? A good build takes a class’s strengths and weaknesses into consideration when choosing the proper gear for a preferred play style.

Thanatos.2691:

Why should they make celestial work well on all classes? A good build takes a class’s strengths and weaknesses into consideration when choosing the proper gear for a preferred play style.

Well there is a power and a condi build for all classes. Why not make a hybrid (celestial) viable for all classes too?

It’s threads like this why they got rid of the suggestion subforum.

If I understand celestial correctly, the only way to get it to work equally well on all classes would be to homogenize the classes so that they are equal in all their strengths and weaknesses. In that case, why have different classes with different strengths and weaknesses? Just have one class, right?

It really doesn’t make sense to revamp, merge and switch around traits just to accommodate this one build (trashing all the other builds which capitalize on a classes strengths). No, bad idea.

Celestial isn’t really a hybrid set though. It’s a might stacking set that you combine with Strength runes to get a bunch of supplemental stats to go alongside the big chunk of power and condition damage you get from might stacks.

It’s particularly effective in sPvP, as you have very little ability to fine-tune your stats in that format, it makes you tanky enough to fight off thieves, and boon stacking counters have been nerfed into the ground or are limited to characters that are ineffective in sPvP.

On other classes in sPvP it isn’t viable as you can’t stack a ton of might by yourself, which is what enables celestial to pull its weight; outside of sPvP it’s much less relevant as you can mix and match your gear to get any breadth of stats you need, devaluing the super-breadth of celestial.

It’s basically just an artifact of how constrained builds are in sPvP that isn’t relevant to other areas of the game.

That would revolve around making healing power not suck for certain classes and for guardians to have something else besides burning.

I hear ya OP, and I think it could only be for the good of the game. It’s been going on for 2 years though.

All professions can use a celestial build. Those 3 are particularly strong because of might stacking, not so much healing. For all celestial gear, especially runes, they need a little bump in specs for Pve/WvW. I think each piece should give +1% for Boon duration, +1% outgoing condition duration, and -1% incoming condition duration. Then say +/-2% for the Chest Armor piece and Single handed weapons. That would be a total of +/-15% which would be a nice boost for a whole celestial set. It would help out all celestial builds a little bit without stacking more base stats.

Astral Projections.7320:

How?

“that you are not getting much from the healing power like ele, engi and warriors.”
Do they increase what you get for traits for certain professions, but not others?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Power

“Different sources of health gain add different amounts of healing per point of healing power. For instance, each point of Healing Power adds 0.125 healing for Regeneration, 0.06 healing for Rejuvenation.”

So to answer your question, yes. Not all traits and skills benefit from healing power equally.

Also…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_damage

“At level 80, most conditions require roughly 850 condition damage to double their damage output; burning is an outlier, requiring over 1300 condition damage to double.”

OP has a good point.

Typically each gear set comes with three traits. One primary and two secondary. With this, you can specialize your character into roles (aka builds). The exception is celestial which doesn’t have a primary/secondary setup. Instead is just adds something to each stat. It’s a jack of all.

Or at least it should be. Due to how different skills, regardless of filling an almost identical role, respond differently to the stats, celestial isn’t jack of all. I becomes another type of specialization that only certain professions can pull off.

The conditions make a fine example of this. Burning requires more in the condition damage stat to double its damage than many other conditions. Does this make burning a poor condition? No. The base damage of the condition depends on the skill. Burning tends to have a high base meaning someone who specializes in a physical damage build will still find it viable to take a burning skill.

Should it? It kinda pigeon holes the professions into specific builds when its like this. Take a guardian. If the burning has a high base and benefits little from the condition damage stat, why should I bother specializing into a condition build? I’m better off not bothering with that stat and put my focus else where.

I’d much rather have diversity and equally viable choices. Even if it means that the base damage of fire be reduced and increase the stat benefit. Don’t confuse homogenizing with consolidating.

Ensign.2189:

Celestial isn’t really a hybrid set though. It’s a might stacking set that you combine with Strength runes to get a bunch of supplemental stats to go alongside the big chunk of power and condition damage you get from might stacks.

It’s particularly effective in sPvP, as you have very little ability to fine-tune your stats in that format, it makes you tanky enough to fight off thieves, and boon stacking counters have been nerfed into the ground or are limited to characters that are ineffective in sPvP.

On other classes in sPvP it isn’t viable as you can’t stack a ton of might by yourself, which is what enables celestial to pull its weight; outside of sPvP it’s much less relevant as you can mix and match your gear to get any breadth of stats you need, devaluing the super-breadth of celestial.

It’s basically just an artifact of how constrained builds are in sPvP that isn’t relevant to other areas of the game.

DeWolfe.2174:

All professions can use a celestial build. Those 3 are particularly strong because of might stacking, not so much healing. For all celestial gear, especially runes, they need a little bump in specs for Pve/WvW. I think each piece should give +1% for Boon duration, +1% outgoing condition duration, and -1% incoming condition duration. Then say +/-2% for the Chest Armor piece and Single handed weapons. That would be a total of +/-15% which would be a nice boost for a whole celestial set. It would help out all celestial builds a little bit without stacking more base stats.

Well any class using sigil of battle + runes of hoelbrak/strength +boon duration from traits can stack at least 9tacks only from the sigil. You probably can build at least 12-15 stacks in any class without much trouble.

If it is making use of all the stats it is a hybrid. In wvw you can also get the extra ascended, infusion, 25 bloodlust stacks, guard stacks that you cant in spvp.

Just can celestial once and for all.

celestial ranger is strong, dont underestimate it

Azure.8670:

celestial ranger is strong, dont underestimate it

I am interested in a Celestial Ranger. What sort of build(s) make it “strong”?

By the way, would a Celestial Thief work? If so, a set of Celestial can share between 3 classes. How nice would that be!

Thanks!