Guild Wars 2

Ahoy the mates.

This post is not meant to be a flame or whatever.

Its only a small feedback.

I like it that Arena.net trying to find ther own mmorpg way and make something unique. But I realy miss the classic healer and tank class in this game.
I am playing anyways to 95%+ only in the WvW, but that ther arnt any realy tank (taunt) or healer class in this game is the main resson why I dont go on dungeon runs or PvE raids.

just my 2 cents
(sorry about my bad english)

I know how you feel and it IS quite hard to adjust too, i myself felt exactly the same way as you at release. I think many people felt the same and some felt that you should already know what your buying etc etc.

IMO give it a good try and like me you will learn to love this new system..

I don’t miss “LFG MONKS” hulabaloo at all.

It’s nothing like games built for that kind of gameplay, but my Guardian feels very tanky in dungeons. I don’t have a taunt, no, but the combination of having low base health, high toughness/armor, and typically being in melee range means that mobs tend to stick to me like glue, even when I’m trying to get them off me for a few moments while a cooldown recharges. I didn’t even build my character intending to be a tank, but I usually end up being one just because the mobs love me for some reason. So much so that I built some extra boon duration into my build so I can maintain perma Protection if I ever need to bunker up for some reason.

Combine that with the multiple ways I have of providing Aegis, Protection, and Regeneration and I have quite a few ways of supporting my party. I can’t healspam someone from a quarter of their life to full in a few seconds, no, but other games typically don’t let me reflect incoming projectiles away from my team either.

Anyway, my point is that while the game may not officially support being a “tank” or “healer,” you’d be surprised at what you can do with the right class, gear, and traits.

yeah this is true, you cabn build your character to more or less get that same feel. By no means as ehra said is it the exactly the same as you must be mobile iin this game, cripple kills.. But yes you can get a similar feeling as a shout heal build warrior for example or gaurdian boon converting reflection etc..

Domo.7618:

I like it that Arena.net trying to find ther own mmorpg way and make something unique. But I realy miss the classic healer and tank class in this game.
I am playing anyways to 95%+ only in the WvW, but that ther arnt any realy tank (taunt) or healer class in this game is the main resson why I dont go on dungeon runs or PvE raids.

You’re missing out. The reason why there aren’t any pure tanks or healers is because they are not needed. The game is balanced around each player pretty much minding his own Health in combat.

This game has a huge amount of depth to it, just stick with it. I was getting very frustrated with my thief when I first started, for example. Then I found little tricks that made me feel like i brought unique and clever ways to help the group. Scorpion wire pulls units without aggroing friends, black powder makes units in an area miss every attack, pistol whip could keep interrupting slow hitting enemies while netting me a ton of healing and direct damage immunity. The list goes on. Similarly, if you keep trucking, you’ll find tricks and tips. Guardian is a great tank, and there are classes and comboes that heal very well. If you have a group of friends to play with, that’s the best thing to do, as group support matters much more than in most other mmos.

Domo.7618:

Ahoy the mates.

This post is not meant to be a flame or whatever.

Its only a small feedback.

I like it that Arena.net trying to find ther own mmorpg way and make something unique. But I realy miss the classic healer and tank class in this game.
I am playing anyways to 95%+ only in the WvW, but that ther arnt any realy tank (taunt) or healer class in this game is the main resson why I dont go on dungeon runs or PvE raids.

just my 2 cents
(sorry about my bad english)

Did you not do any research before buying GW2? its combat system has a different set up to most MMO’s so you have to ask yourself do you want to learn a new approach to combat or not? are you scared you’ll fail? do you not like variety in your gaming life?

From the amount of debates on here many are not quite getting that you have to be able to do all three disciplines Damage, Support, Control but with different ratio’s to fit in with your playstyle so you can lean towards being a healer or tanky type but with no taunt mechanic and the fact that all professions can heal themselves you have to be responsible for your own survival as much as other players survival. Its very different and I haven’t got my head around it yet but I’m finding it keeps me thinking about builds for different aspects of the game rather than get a rotation and thats it your set for life.

“I like it that Arena.net trying to find ther own mmorpg way and make something unique. " is the key in all this, what they have made is unique compared to other MMO plus may I make a suggestion? You could always turn your build into a more healeresque one(Guardian of course). However, I do value your opinion:)

Dont get me wrong. I am not crying or want to get it change. Its ok how they they made it. I only wanted to give a small feedback why me (and mabye others?!) dont like it much to go into dungeons.

I just miss those 2 classic roles of an RPG in this game, and mabye Arena.net will put them into GW3.

This post is meant to be a small feedback about how I fell or why I dont go into dungeons that much.

Ther are sure ways, combinations to do the dungeons in GW2 “easy”, but those are not fun for “me”.

You can give some heavy support to your team and still play a healer’s playstyle (I do). You just need to adapt to the system.

Domo.7618:

Dont get me wrong. I am not crying or want to get it change. Its ok how they they made it. I only wanted to give a small feedback why me (and mabye others?!) dont like it much to go into dungeons.

I just miss those 2 classic roles of an RPG in this game, and mabye Arena.net will put them into GW3.

This post is meant to be a small feedback about how I fell or why I dont go into dungeons that much.

Ther are sure ways, combinations to do the dungeons in GW2 “easy”, but those are not fun for “me”.

So whats the point of this thread then? if you understand that those “classic roles” are no longer supported in GW2 you have the choice to adapt or not have any fun as they apply in world PvE, sPvP and Wv3 its the core concept of the combat system and thus the whole game, as its centrepiece is combat.

I don’t miss dedicated healers or tanks at all. In WoW and Rift I played healers and hate the attitude that I should be able to keep a tank healed when they pull an entire room including the Boss. I bought GW2 BECAUSE there are no dedicated Tanks/Healers. everyone is responsible for themselves though Elementalists can give a small regen or Mesmers can give life for 15 seconds in battle to all downed players. Guardians can do super heals with their Elite Skill books, but in the end whether you live or die is completely your fault. It makes for a better dungeon experience in my opinion because healers aren’t being griefed by overzealous tanks who think they should be able to live through anything. Not everyone has the best gear nor should they be bullied into grinding for said gear just to fulfill a certain role.

In WoW and Rift not only was gear difficult to find but as a Healer you were expected to have the very best gear (even if the tanks were undergeared they were allowed in) and the very best mana regen potions, which meant many hours farming instead of actually playing the game.

If Anet changes their mind and follows other MMO’s I can guarantee you will see a mass exodus or very few people willing to fill those roles. I know I won’t and the money I spend on the gem store will disappear along with me.

Yeah, problem with having dedicated roles it is easy to point fingers. For example “It was all the tank!” “Healer is rubbish”.

I havent missed it AT ALL. Infact going back to games where there are dedicated tanks and healers..and you can’t dodge feels incredibly DATED and last gen

Miomooki.3812:

I don’t miss “LFG MONKS” hulabaloo at all.

Roll/play one? Just an idea.

Cathbadb.6079:

I don’t miss dedicated healers or tanks at all. In WoW and Rift I played healers and hate the attitude that I should be able to keep a tank healed when they pull an entire room including the Boss. I bought GW2 BECAUSE there are no dedicated Tanks/Healers. everyone is responsible for themselves though Elementalists can give a small regen or Mesmers can give life for 15 seconds in battle to all downed players. Guardians can do super heals with their Elite Skill books, but in the end whether you live or die is completely your fault. It makes for a better dungeon experience in my opinion because healers aren’t being griefed by overzealous tanks who think they should be able to live through anything. Not everyone has the best gear nor should they be bullied into grinding for said gear just to fulfill a certain role.

In WoW and Rift not only was gear difficult to find but as a Healer you were expected to have the very best gear (even if the tanks were undergeared they were allowed in) and the very best mana regen potions, which meant many hours farming instead of actually playing the game.

If Anet changes their mind and follows other MMO’s I can guarantee you will see a mass exodus or very few people willing to fill those roles. I know I won’t and the money I spend on the gem store will disappear along with me.

So much this, my experiences too. I love healing but I hate carrying bads.

Glovebox.5724:

Yeah, problem with having dedicated roles it is easy to point fingers. For example “It was all the tank!” “Healer is rubbish”.

The most annoying thing about that was most finger pointers had no clue about game mechanics.

you should also see to it that you understand how Combo fields work

such as you dont want to overlap a regen or life steal field with a fire field, yes the extra might or burning damage is nice but regen and life steal will help keep you on your feet.

Dungeons would be pretty limiting and gimmicky if it was all reduced to a tank and healer taking care of everything while the rest just deals DPS, and we would be still dependant on healer/tank roles to run dungeons instead of player skill.

We’ve been playing that simplistic system for two decades now.
I think we can have one, single game, and let me repeat it – one, single game – that allows you to play in a more realistic way where you actually deal with mobs, damage, aggro and healing constantly, instead of being pidgeon-holed into doing only one of those roles.

That’s not to say I don’t understand your feeling, but simply put this game was for people tired of that obsolete format.
There would be little reason for most of us to play PvE if it was dumbed down to that level.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Tough-issues/

I healed raids for about four years in WoW and loved it, and found it hard to adjust to GW2’s system. I won’t say I don’t miss being a ‘real’ healer in GW2, I still do, but there’s a lot you can (and if you’re serious have) to offer to a party without being a pure healer: learn to anticipate the actions of others, then use skills/conditions/fields etc. which complement or strengthen theirs. If you really want to get into the role of supporting others over adding your own dps/conditions, try a guardian (or elementalist ? I haven’t seriously tried it yet).

The downside of healing (in WoW), for me, was that much of it boiled down to focussing 90% on the HP and debuffs of your assigned healing targets, while not standing in stuff. In GW2, I have to focus much more on the enemy while still keeping an eye on HP bars, conditions, positioning of others, ressing… it’s a lot of fun, after you get used to it, and I feel it’s definitely an evolutionary step in MMO gameplay, even though there’s plenty of room for improvement.

Posting in the 1,483,375th thread about healers.

I understand that it’s a new game with different mechanics. I know that the fact I miss that type of gameplay will not change the game, nor am I asking it to. I’m just saying that the healer / tank gameplay is something that I really enjoyed and that is sadly missing in GW.

My first MMO was GW1 and there was no tanks in that game either, and at the time it was fine.
After playing WoW i realized that there had been something missing all along. The classic trinity promoted a structure and encouraged team based play. On my first WoW dungeon I met 1 player with whom I would do dungeons / pvp / all sorts for the rest of my time in WoW. I met my guild leader and great friend soon after running another dungeon.
Maybe in my case I was fortunate with my experience, I can count with the fingers of one hand the times that I had to wait for a healer / tank. But then again I played a druid and could do all roles. Kinda how I wish guild wars would be. Anet removed the 3 and left us with 1.
Sure there are new combat mechanics, dodge, and combo fields, but again that only addressed the problem that dpsing could be a bit boring on traditional trinity games.
Healing and Tanking weren’t boring unless you outgeared the dungeon. Or maybe I felt that way because I was never one to use addons that did stuff for me.
So this is my opinion, I know that it won’t change anything, but as with every other opinion, it’s a valid one.

From my experience trininty games allow for a ton of carrying through content. Most encounters success or failure is dictated by the tanks/healers whilst dps just affects the speed at which the encounter is completed. I played healer/tank roles in WoW and Rift a fair bit and always found it annoying getting critcised by guys whose only job it was was to not stand in the fire and cycle their dps rotation.

Gw2’s system is far more revealing of an individual player’s skill . There are no tanks to hide behind or healers to save your kitten In nearly all cases blame stops at the player who went down. This makes it feel far more meritocratic for me, although for people used to only playing dps in trinity games it will be a bit trickier.

Miomooki.3812:

I don’t miss “LFG MONKS” hulabaloo at all.

LFG warrior.

I favor healer classes in other games and Ive found that strong support builds in GW2 can have very much the same feel. Recently Ive been playing around with a support engineer based around elixers and the elixer gun. Its been quite effective, particularly with me being able to lay down light fields almost constantly. Extremely effective for condition removal.

The main difference for me is that I set up situations that add and support my team. Often my team will have to take advantage of what Ive done. It requires more awareness of surroundings but I find that better than watching healthbars and healing with mouse macros.

Domo.7618:

Dont get me wrong. I am not crying or want to get it change. Its ok how they they made it. I only wanted to give a small feedback why me (and mabye others?!) dont like it much to go into dungeons.

I just miss those 2 classic roles of an RPG in this game, and mabye Arena.net will put them into GW3.

This post is meant to be a small feedback about how I fell or why I dont go into dungeons that much.

Ther are sure ways, combinations to do the dungeons in GW2 “easy”, but those are not fun for “me”.

I love my shout warrior and feel like he fills both roles to some extent. Have 4 shouts that heal for over 2k a piece and cure conditions with each one. I made him a while ago and haven’t changed anything about him since, I hated dungeons until I went to shout warrior bunker build.

In WoW I played a Priest, Paladin, Druid (tree) and Mage. Eventually I played a Warlock as well. The thing though about playing a Healer or tank is you pretty much have a guaranteed spot in the raid so long as there was enough room. Also depending upon the dungeon being done at the time. With DPS it wasn’t always so cut and dry. They had to compete for spaces or lots of times it depended upon who you knew as to whether you got a spot or not. On my Priest I could bubble the tank or on my Druid I could insta heal the entire party if I needed to. My Priest healed differently than my Druid. The Priest healed damage as it occurred whereas the Druid stacked heals that ticked waiting for damage. I enjoyed both equally as well and a Druid was nigh unkillable in PvP because of the stackable heals.

Most dungeons required the use of addons to anticipate boss mechanics. In GW2 there is no such feature which makes the game more dynamic/enjoyable. You never know what a boss is going to pull out of his kitten and that’s part of the fun. To be sure he has certain attacks but so far I haven’t found any way to prepare for them with some sort of timer addon.

DPS in WoW were often shafted because if they couldn’t bring the boss down fast enough they were “obviously” doing something wrong, same was true in Rift. In rift I healed as a Warden and it was a tough class to play as mana regen was difficult to find on gear, whereas Mages (I forget the exact name of the class but they used life based spells that had to do with plants) had it in abundance and in the 3rd month of release could out heal Wardens with ease, which meant re-rolling for many people if they wanted to be viable in dungeons. Which of course meant yet another gear grind.

In this game there no such gear grind unless you absolutely must have Best in Slot. A player in rares can do just as well as a player in exotics because game play is more about player skill than gear in this game. There is no gear check, no dps check, no WoW Armory to look at another player’s gear or accomplishments (have they even done said dungeon yet) or gear score which I am just fine with. The fight may take 30 seconds longer but in WoW or Rift if you didn’t have the BiS then you weren’t running the dungeon.
In GW2 every person is responsible for their own selves and if I want to do something besides dungeons I can (try that as a dedicated healing class in WoW or Rift). I’m not gimped as to what I want to do and I don’t have people whispering me asking me to stop what I am doing and get on my healer because someone wants to run a dungeon.

As a healer I found that I was only valuable when a dungeon was being done. If I needed help with quests then I was out of luck (this was before secondary talent point trees in WoW ) as I rarely if ever got assistance. I was told to respecc, change my armor and then quest. Of course the sheer expense and trouble of carrying around two sets or armor was irrelevent to people who didn’t play my class.

None of that in this game and I’m quite content with it. Sometimes I miss being a healer but that’s just when things went well. On my Elementalist I still switch to Water to throw out heals for others because if the team goes down then I’m next. Or on my Necro or Mesmer I’ll put down a field that removes conditions, but that doesn’t make me want to return to the headache that was being a healer.

Rhaps.8540:

From my experience trininty games allow for a ton of carrying through content. Most encounters success or failure is dictated by the tanks/healers whilst dps just affects the speed at which the encounter is completed. I played healer/tank roles in WoW and Rift a fair bit and always found it annoying getting critcised by guys whose only job it was was to not stand in the fire and cycle their dps rotation.

Gw2’s system is far more revealing of an individual player’s skill . There are no tanks to hide behind or healers to save your kitten In nearly all cases blame stops at the player who went down. This makes it feel far more meritocratic for me, although for people used to only playing dps in trinity games it will be a bit trickier.

Your last point is key for me as to why players are having problems with the combat system in GW2, they just don’t understand anything other than dps, support and control players in traditional trinity games were rather rare so we had the problem of waiting for healers and tanks to turn up to do group content, the vast majority of the player base was dps and only understood dps. I was like that for a while until I got my confidence up and then I started to play tank and healer classes and realised it wasn’t that hard after all but you will get blamed for any mistake and thats something else stopping players taking on those roles. In GW2 you are responsible for your own safety and the safety of others, its a more natural system but if you’ve never had to think about support or control in a group system you’ll going to find it an alien concept and struggle to adapt unless you want to. I love this new way of doing things and there are still plenty of traditional trinity games out there so I’d like this one to stay this way and just be refined and improved upon so more and more builds are viable.

Ir is true they could have balanced the aggro system to function differently and make it so that healer classes function properly. (the +healing on gear often goes to waste big time on most classes.)

Rhaps.8540:

From my experience trininty games allow for a ton of carrying through content. Most encounters success or failure is dictated by the tanks/healers whilst dps just affects the speed at which the encounter is completed. I played healer/tank roles in WoW and Rift a fair bit and always found it annoying getting critcised by guys whose only job it was was to not stand in the fire and cycle their dps rotation.

Gw2’s system is far more revealing of an individual player’s skill . There are no tanks to hide behind or healers to save your kitten In nearly all cases blame stops at the player who went down. This makes it feel far more meritocratic for me, although for people used to only playing dps in trinity games it will be a bit trickier.

Very well said.
GW2 lets you spot the bad members easily while classic trinity is a lot more forgiving as a good tank/healer can carry bads around dungeons.

The aggro system on this game needs some definite work. In most MMO’s it’s based upon damage done. In WoW when on my Mage I often had to stop dps to keep from pulling threat off the tank.

In GW2 the amount of HP and Armor you have seems to be the determining factor in who does and doesn’t get threat.

There is a post in the Necromancer forums about this very issue. It’s rampant in every dungeon and Fractals. My Necro for instance currently has 2607 armor and 23k HP, far more than any Guardian or Warrior than I group with and I don’t even have full exotics.

Because of these high numbers the Dungeon or Fractal Boss will ignore the other players and come straight for me. Even if I don’t attack it, it just somehow knows and comes for me, which makes MY game play interesting but ultimately annoying as I don’t have the heals a Guardian does. To be sure I can heal myself quite a bit but not on the scale a “tanky” profession like Guardian has.

Domo.7618:

Ahoy the mates.

This post is not meant to be a flame or whatever.

Its only a small feedback.

I like it that Arena.net trying to find ther own mmorpg way and make something unique. But I realy miss the classic healer and tank class in this game.
I am playing anyways to 95%+ only in the WvW, but that ther arnt any realy tank (taunt) or healer class in this game is the main resson why I dont go on dungeon runs or PvE raids.

just my 2 cents
(sorry about my bad english)

you can run classic healer, six easy steps.

step1- roll guardian
step2- level it to 80
step3- get mix of cleric/magi armor and accesories
step4- get cleric staff, cleric mace, cleric shield
step5- spec into 0/0/10+/30/10+
step6- get boon duration runes.

step1- roll elementalist
step2- level it to 80
step3- get mix of cleric/magi armor and accesories
step4- get cleric staff,
step5- spec into 0/10/0/30/30
step6- get boon duration runes.

there is also a healer engineer build available, never tried though.

you can run classic tank:

step1- roll guardian
step2- level it to 80
step3- get mix of knight/soldier armor and accesories
step4- get knight GS , knight mace, knight shield
step5- spec into 0/?/30/20/?
step6- get soldier runes.

step1- roll warrior
step2- level it to 80
step3- get mix of knight/soldier armor and accessories
step4- get knight sword , knight mace, knight shield, knight warhorn and ranged (bow or rifle).
step5- spec into ?/0/30/30/?
step6- get soldier runes.

the beauty of this game, is that you can, but you don’t have to.

Calerxes.1364:

Domo.7618:

Dont get me wrong. I am not crying or want to get it change. Its ok how they they made it. I only wanted to give a small feedback why me (and mabye others?!) dont like it much to go into dungeons.

I just miss those 2 classic roles of an RPG in this game, and mabye Arena.net will put them into GW3.

This post is meant to be a small feedback about how I fell or why I dont go into dungeons that much.

Ther are sure ways, combinations to do the dungeons in GW2 “easy”, but those are not fun for “me”.

So whats the point of this thread then? if you understand that those “classic roles” are no longer supported in GW2 you have the choice to adapt or not have any fun as they apply in world PvE, sPvP and Wv3 its the core concept of the combat system and thus the whole game, as its centrepiece is combat.

It’s called “conversation.”

Cripe, what is with people and their self-importance that they think it’s up to them to determine whether or not somebody correctly created a discussion thread on the internet??

The guy just wanted to say what’s on his mind. Not up to you to determine whether or not he should.

Calerxes.1364:

Rhaps.8540:

From my experience trininty games allow for a ton of carrying through content. Most encounters success or failure is dictated by the tanks/healers whilst dps just affects the speed at which the encounter is completed. I played healer/tank roles in WoW and Rift a fair bit and always found it annoying getting critcised by guys whose only job it was was to not stand in the fire and cycle their dps rotation.

Gw2’s system is far more revealing of an individual player’s skill . There are no tanks to hide behind or healers to save your kitten In nearly all cases blame stops at the player who went down. This makes it feel far more meritocratic for me, although for people used to only playing dps in trinity games it will be a bit trickier.

Your last point is key for me as to why players are having problems with the combat system in GW2, they just don’t understand anything other than dps, support and control players in traditional trinity games were rather rare so we had the problem of waiting for healers and tanks to turn up to do group content, the vast majority of the player base was dps and only understood dps. I was like that for a while until I got my confidence up and then I started to play tank and healer classes and realised it wasn’t that hard after all but you will get blamed for any mistake and thats something else stopping players taking on those roles. In GW2 you are responsible for your own safety and the safety of others, its a more natural system but if you’ve never had to think about support or control in a group system you’ll going to find it an alien concept and struggle to adapt unless you want to. I love this new way of doing things and there are still plenty of traditional trinity games out there so I’d like this one to stay this way and just be refined and improved upon so more and more builds are viable.

I agree with this. Used to tank in WoW and, other than knowing the mechanics of each fight, it was very simple. But you’d have idiot dps standing in stuff and expecting the healers to heal them through it. If they didn’t, the healers were “terrible.”

Now, that being said…the mechanics of these dungeons and the aggro system really need work. I understand 100% that everybody is responsible for themselves, and I also understand 100% that everybody does a little bit of everything in this game. However, most of the boss fights in this game seem completely random in regards to aggro.

I think being able to taunt off of each other would be a huge addition to this game and allow tougher encounters with even more planning/strategy required. Instead, for the most part, all encounters seem to be just way too chaotic. I also think snares, traps, and shields/walls/protection bubbles need to last for more than a second or two. They really don’t seem to be doing much.

Most of the fights as melee, you can’t even SEE the boss through all the spell effects and instead of using the dodge mechanic correctly, you have to use your best guess as to when to dodge, because you can’t see any of the boss’ tells. All you can do is watch your health meter, see it going down and then just randomly dodge. To me, that needs work.

I like this game a lot, and I realize it’s really, really young. But I honestly think the encounters/mechanics need a lot of work.

Shootsfoot.9276:

Calerxes.1364:

Domo.7618:

Dont get me wrong. I am not crying or want to get it change. Its ok how they they made it. I only wanted to give a small feedback why me (and mabye others?!) dont like it much to go into dungeons.

I just miss those 2 classic roles of an RPG in this game, and mabye Arena.net will put them into GW3.

This post is meant to be a small feedback about how I fell or why I dont go into dungeons that much.

Ther are sure ways, combinations to do the dungeons in GW2 “easy”, but those are not fun for “me”.

So whats the point of this thread then? if you understand that those “classic roles” are no longer supported in GW2 you have the choice to adapt or not have any fun as they apply in world PvE, sPvP and Wv3 its the core concept of the combat system and thus the whole game, as its centrepiece is combat.

It’s called “conversation.”

Cripe, what is with people and their self-importance that they think it’s up to them to determine whether or not somebody correctly created a discussion thread on the internet??

The guy just wanted to say what’s on his mind. Not up to you to determine whether or not he should.

Don’t get all tied up in knots, though can you tell me the point of the OP? he even understands that the game isn’t built the way he wants and he doesn’t do dungeons because of it so again whats the point of the OP? just wistful remembrance of times gone by? I pointed out that its either adapt of not have any fun as the whole game is built around the combat system, so I was giving advice not telling him he cannot start a thread about it.

Shootsfoot.9276:

Calerxes.1364:

Rhaps.8540:

From my experience trininty games allow for a ton of carrying through content. Most encounters success or failure is dictated by the tanks/healers whilst dps just affects the speed at which the encounter is completed. I played healer/tank roles in WoW and Rift a fair bit and always found it annoying getting critcised by guys whose only job it was was to not stand in the fire and cycle their dps rotation.

Gw2’s system is far more revealing of an individual player’s skill . There are no tanks to hide behind or healers to save your kitten In nearly all cases blame stops at the player who went down. This makes it feel far more meritocratic for me, although for people used to only playing dps in trinity games it will be a bit trickier.

Your last point is key for me as to why players are having problems with the combat system in GW2, they just don’t understand anything other than dps, support and control players in traditional trinity games were rather rare so we had the problem of waiting for healers and tanks to turn up to do group content, the vast majority of the player base was dps and only understood dps. I was like that for a while until I got my confidence up and then I started to play tank and healer classes and realised it wasn’t that hard after all but you will get blamed for any mistake and thats something else stopping players taking on those roles. In GW2 you are responsible for your own safety and the safety of others, its a more natural system but if you’ve never had to think about support or control in a group system you’ll going to find it an alien concept and struggle to adapt unless you want to. I love this new way of doing things and there are still plenty of traditional trinity games out there so I’d like this one to stay this way and just be refined and improved upon so more and more builds are viable.

I agree with this. Used to tank in WoW and, other than knowing the mechanics of each fight, it was very simple. But you’d have idiot dps standing in stuff and expecting the healers to heal them through it. If they didn’t, the healers were “terrible.”

Now, that being said…the mechanics of these dungeons and the aggro system really need work. I understand 100% that everybody is responsible for themselves, and I also understand 100% that everybody does a little bit of everything in this game. However, most of the boss fights in this game seem completely random in regards to aggro.

I think being able to taunt off of each other would be a huge addition to this game and allow tougher encounters with even more planning/strategy required. Instead, for the most part, all encounters seem to be just way too chaotic. I also think snares, traps, and shields/walls/protection bubbles need to last for more than a second or two. They really don’t seem to be doing much.

Most of the fights as melee, you can’t even SEE the boss through all the spell effects and instead of using the dodge mechanic correctly, you have to use your best guess as to when to dodge, because you can’t see any of the boss’ tells. All you can do is watch your health meter, see it going down and then just randomly dodge. To me, that needs work.

I like this game a lot, and I realize it’s really, really young. But I honestly think the encounters/mechanics need a lot of work.

Here’s a question, as Arenanet are attempting to make a more fluid, natural and dynamic MMO wouldn’t the boss encounters feel random if everytime you went in the conditions were slightly different due to things like group set up, RNG etc..? is this a good understanding of a dynamic encounter, one that isn’t the same two times in a row wheresas in a traditional MMO the boss mechanics are exactly the same everytime and you are forced into a set group makeup ie The Trinity. I imagine in warfare no two battles are exactly the same, you have to think on the fly and change according to the conditions presented to you at that time, not a preset set of movements like its an MMO ballet. This will then give the dungeons or boss fight a fresh feel everytime you enter them.

Miomooki.3812:

I don’t miss “LFG MONKS” hulabaloo at all.

What about the whole LFM warriors only?
Or engis and rangers being kicked by groups for “uselessness”?

You really can build a healer, and in spite of what people say, you do contribute just as much to a party as a DPS. But, you have to remember that a ‘healer’ in GW2 isn’t a doctor or a babysitter, it’s a combat medic. I actually have a buddy who’s a combat medic, he carries just as many weapons and wears the same armor as the rest of his platoon, and using them prevents more wounds than he could ever fix.

You can be a healer, but you’re still in combat, and nobody goes into combat intending to not use their weapons, no matter what else they may be trained for.

Then there are elementalists.

Use water attunement → heal teammates → Remove conditions → Save teammates.

Water Elementalists feels too much like a healer.

Calerxes.1364:

Here’s a question, as Arenanet are attempting to make a more fluid, natural and dynamic MMO wouldn’t the boss encounters feel random if everytime you went in the conditions were slightly different due to things like group set up, RNG etc..? is this a good understanding of a dynamic encounter, one that isn’t the same two times in a row wheresas in a traditional MMO the boss mechanics are exactly the same everytime and you are forced into a set group makeup ie The Trinity. I imagine in warfare no two battles are exactly the same, you have to think on the fly and change according to the conditions presented to you at that time, not a preset set of movements like its an MMO ballet. This will then give the dungeons or boss fight a fresh feel everytime you enter them.

Must be terrible for the GW2 wiki writers to describe all of these dynamic boss fights that feel fresh and different every time. I myself have stopped reading the wiki because every time I try an encounter it goes completely different from what was described… True story, seriously…

Ooshi.8607:

Calerxes.1364:

Here’s a question, as Arenanet are attempting to make a more fluid, natural and dynamic MMO wouldn’t the boss encounters feel random if everytime you went in the conditions were slightly different due to things like group set up, RNG etc..? is this a good understanding of a dynamic encounter, one that isn’t the same two times in a row wheresas in a traditional MMO the boss mechanics are exactly the same everytime and you are forced into a set group makeup ie The Trinity. I imagine in warfare no two battles are exactly the same, you have to think on the fly and change according to the conditions presented to you at that time, not a preset set of movements like its an MMO ballet. This will then give the dungeons or boss fight a fresh feel everytime you enter them.

Must be terrible for the GW2 wiki writers to describe all of these dynamic boss fights that feel fresh and different every time. I myself have stopped reading the wiki because every time I try an encounter it goes completely different from what was described… True story, seriously…

Did you just read my post? and not the one I was replying to?

runeblade.7514:

Then there are elementalists.

Use water attunement -> heal teammates -> Remove conditions -> Save teammates.

Water Elementalists feels too much like a healer.

Well there is an obvious problem with that. You have AT LEAST 15 other skills, why aren’t you using any of them?

Khisanth.2948:

runeblade.7514:

Then there are elementalists.

Use water attunement -> heal teammates -> Remove conditions -> Save teammates.

Water Elementalists feels too much like a healer.

Well there is an obvious problem with that. You have AT LEAST 15 other skills, why aren’t you using any of them?

Min/max?

My point is that combat here feels different, but from that to say that boss encounters are dynamic is a bit of exaggeration.
The boss encounters are exactly like any other MMOs with the ONLY difference that the boss isn’t tauntable, so it will usually lock unto someone after some mysterious alchemy. Myself I believe that they are somewhat racist, and just lock into whatever race they dislike the most…
Pressing V instead of S or A to avoid fire, isn’t the pinnacle of skill.

Ooshi.8607:

My point is that combat here feels different, but from that to say that boss encounters are dynamic is a bit of exaggeration.
The boss encounters are exactly like any other MMOs with the ONLY difference that the boss isn’t tauntable, so it will usually lock unto someone after some mysterious alchemy. Myself I believe that they are somewhat racist, and just lock into whatever race they dislike the most…
Pressing V instead of S or A to avoid fire, isn’t the pinnacle of skill.

Thats the point of my post as it was a question, well a couple actually and was only trying to get to what Arenanet is attempting to do. The aggro system in GW2 is a bit more complicated than just a taunt system. So when you go into a fight it isn’t cut an dried who the mobs are going attack because you are not in the exact same group setup everytime like you are in a trinity based game thus the fights will seem random and a bit more dynamic than other MMO’s, thats all I was asking I wasn’t saying they are “truly dynamic” but a bit more so because of the variety of builds and skill players come to the fight with. Could this be true?

But does it promote a more skilled way of play?
Is kitting the boss here different from kitting the boss in other MMOs?
If you only ever played a DPS class in other MMOs i suppose that there is a lot more things to worry about. If you played a tank or healer class, in my opinion, it feels a bit lackluster.

Khisanth.2948:

runeblade.7514:

Then there are elementalists.

Use water attunement -> heal teammates -> Remove conditions -> Save teammates.

Water Elementalists feels too much like a healer.

Well there is an obvious problem with that. You have AT LEAST 15 other skills, why aren’t you using any of them?

Because it isn’t skillful to spam skills that you don’t need. I change attunements based on what I need.

Actually as a long time MMO healer i kinda like the lack of a “healer” i play a guardian and yes i add so many buffs in a group you need a second screen to see them, i ward i heal i regen but im not a “healer” if the warrior charges into 20 mobs and dies its his fault for being an idiot not my fault because i couldnt heal 5 times his health pool in 0.005 seconds

People are used to DPS being all reward and no responsibility, they get agro its the tanks fault, they die its the healers fault now you screw up its YOUR fault no one elses
i like it

I miss healers but not in this game. Having a healer would just make everything faceroll easy in any of the dungeons. For example, a fight against lupi wouldn’t require skill anymore, just a guardian face tanking him while the healer heals and others just dps. Sub heals in each profession is good enough