Guild Wars 2

NotASmurf.1725:

400 is probably more than WoW has. At the time of GW1 Anet had ~60-80 employees total yet were capable of dishing out 3 campaigns and 1 expansion in 3.5 years with regular balance patches inbetween. Granted it was a somewhat smaller in scope (no gliding, masteries, achievements, etc although there more content to play), but still. Stop making excuses for them.

If WoW had less than 400 employees, then how’d they manage to lay off 600 employees in 2012? hint: (they where estimated at 5,000 exployees at the time, or ~4,400 afterwards)

One of those 400 is the guy refilling the snacks.

MokahTGS.7850:

One of those 400 is the guy refilling the snacks.

And the other 399 are trench coat designers.

SkyShroud.2865:

400 doesn’t means 400 developers

Exactly. People underestimate how many jobs in a game studio are not devoted to the game creation process. Administrative work, logistics, marketing, web publishing, and so on.

400 ? 300 of which are tea ladies ?

NotASmurf.1725:

The whiteknights on this forum are unbeliveable. I swear if Anet had 1k employees people’d still say “it’s a small company” and would claim at least 980 are artists/management/janitors which means we should be glad that this poor small company has enough resources to at least keep the gem store going.

400 is probably more than WoW has. At the time of GW1 Anet had ~60-80 employees total yet were capable of dishing out 3 campaigns and 1 expansion in 3.5 years with regular balance patches inbetween. Granted it was a somewhat smaller in scope (no gliding, masteries, achievements, etc although there more content to play), but still. Stop making excuses for them.

If you’re including me in that I wasn’t even thinking about their development times. Apart from GW1 & 2 I’ve only played 1 other MMO in the last 15 years, so I have to take peoples word for it that most of them release much more than a few hours of content and a map every few months and an expansion every few years. (Although that does make me think GW2 is the right game for me, I don’t think I could keep up with much more.)

I only commented because I saw the thread as two groups talking at cross purposes: one who understood that game developer is a very specific job title that relatively few people at Anet would have, and one who saw everyone who worked on making a game as a developer and seemed to think anyone who wasn’t a developer shouldn’t be there. So I was trying to explain that all of those other people are just as important to getting the game made even if they’re not sitting at a computer writing code or programming new events or whatever.

Maybe they could do it faster or more efficiently, maybe not. I have no idea. I don’t know that much about how Anet works or how games development works on that scale.

Crinn.7864:

NotASmurf.1725:

400 is probably more than WoW has. At the time of GW1 Anet had ~60-80 employees total yet were capable of dishing out 3 campaigns and 1 expansion in 3.5 years with regular balance patches inbetween. Granted it was a somewhat smaller in scope (no gliding, masteries, achievements, etc although there more content to play), but still. Stop making excuses for them.

If WoW had less than 400 employees, then how’d they manage to lay off 600 employees in 2012? hint: (they where estimated at 5,000 exployees at the time, or ~4,400 afterwards)

Yeah but Blizzard also makes multiple different games. Anet only makes GW1 and GW2. And GW1 hasn’t had any new development in years. Their staff are probably down to the people who maintain the servers and a tiny team to keep things updated, if the festivals, weekly rewards etc. aren’t literally on a timer by now.

Unless Anet is going to start branching out into other things. But I don’t know what that would be. (Super Adventure Box as an independent game maybe?)

zealex.9410:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

this is part of what killed hot. and the game all together . was fake hype just like this . and when this is not delivered upon the amount of salt well am sure that taste will not go over so very well at all .

Anet went to great leinghts to tell us what we were getting with the expac they are at fault somewhat but ppl’s expectations where high above and beyond

And we still haven’t gotten everything they mentioned on the box.

Snow.2048:

zealex.9410:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

this is part of what killed hot. and the game all together . was fake hype just like this . and when this is not delivered upon the amount of salt well am sure that taste will not go over so very well at all .

Anet went to great leinghts to tell us what we were getting with the expac they are at fault somewhat but ppl’s expectations where high above and beyond

And we still haven’t gotten everything they mentioned on the box.

What are we missing? I never got a box with my copy so I can’t check.

I don’t have a source, but i’m very certain that at earlier game stage, there was 470-550 ppl working on Arenanet. This is bad business if they cut 100 people loose over time.

Danikat.8537:

What are we missing? I never got a box with my copy so I can’t check.

Nothing, the box doesn’t say much.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

I don’t have a source, but i’m very certain that at earlier game stage, there was 470-550 ppl working on Arenanet. This is bad business if they cut 100 people loose over time.

Nope, they never had that many people working there.

Read Glassdoor if you care.

400 people means nothing if it’s all desegregated work teams with their own deadlines (and lack of accountability when not met). You can also read through the 10-4 workday with 2 hour lunches issues…which means many are part-time. And to be fair, part-time is expected if you don’t pay employees well aka read into the positive work-life-balance comments. Then add on what appears to be a 30%+ attrition rate on employees per year (last two years), includes 75% reduction in quality department, and well, here you are.

That being said, time and again, this is common for game companies and I could have sworn it was my own non-gaming company (still software development) as I was reading through some of these comments especially regarding lack of career paths so it not super surprising relative to content and other development in game production.

Amaimon.7823:

sorudo.9054:

that many ppl and they can’t even fix beta stuff?

Don’t jump your guns. A staff of 2000 people with several million dollars didn’t know how human faces work (you know we’re talking about you, andromeda)

yet the game is more finished then GW2 right now, almost 5 years older.
also, they already fixed that, Anet never fixed even the most simple things.

NotASmurf.1725:

The whiteknights on this forum are unbeliveable. I swear if Anet had 1k employees people’d still say “it’s a small company” and would claim at least 980 are artists/management/janitors which means we should be glad that this poor small company has enough resources to at least keep the gem store going.

400 is probably more than WoW has. At the time of GW1 Anet had ~60-80 employees total yet were capable of dishing out 3 campaigns and 1 expansion in 3.5 years with regular balance patches inbetween. Granted it was a somewhat smaller in scope (no gliding, masteries, achievements, etc although there more content to play), but still. Stop making excuses for them.

Blizzard had 4,700 employees back in 2012, and were actively hiring. That’s not exclusively on WoW, but they have a grand total of five games, so … math math math.

In any case, we are not trying to “white knight” anet here, we are trying to inform you of the realities of business, especially around software development. Your choice to disregard that is fine, but don’t mistake “we disagree with you” for “we are doing this out of ignorance”.

Danikat.8537:

Crinn.7864:

NotASmurf.1725:

400 is probably more than WoW has. At the time of GW1 Anet had ~60-80 employees total yet were capable of dishing out 3 campaigns and 1 expansion in 3.5 years with regular balance patches inbetween. Granted it was a somewhat smaller in scope (no gliding, masteries, achievements, etc although there more content to play), but still. Stop making excuses for them.

If WoW had less than 400 employees, then how’d they manage to lay off 600 employees in 2012? hint: (they where estimated at 5,000 exployees at the time, or ~4,400 afterwards)

Yeah but Blizzard also makes multiple different games. Anet only makes GW1 and GW2. And GW1 hasn’t had any new development in years. Their staff are probably down to the people who maintain the servers and a tiny team to keep things updated, if the festivals, weekly rewards etc. aren’t literally on a timer by now.

Unless Anet is going to start branching out into other things. But I don’t know what that would be. (Super Adventure Box as an independent game maybe?)

Even if you account for the other blizzard titles, you’re still looking at roughly 1,000 employees to a title for blizzard.

Also I checked Blizzard’s careers page, and they are looking for 230 more jobs on top of what they already have.

I’m sorry but 400 developers for a mmorpg of GW2’s size is understaffed.

Something’s wrong if they have 400 employees and yet WvW & PvP are in such bad state. That’s 2 out of 3 game modes doing poorly with declining participation and population.

So to repeat it again, since some people still don’t seem to get it, 400 employees is not the same thing as 400 developers. No, I’m not excusing the state of WvW or PvP (mostly balance), but Anet has 400 employees, not 400 developers.

Those employees include administrative stuff, community managers (like the amazing Gaile), artists, designers, animators etc etc… and all of that takes away from the amount of people that are free to work on development. Of those working on development, a lot of them are working onthe next expansion as well. So stop acting as if this is 400 developers, because it isn’t.

gavyne.6847:

Something’s wrong if they have 400 employees and yet WvW & PvP are in such bad state. That’s 2 out of 3 game modes doing poorly with declining participation and population.

cough An accurate statement would be “… 400 employees and yet I think that WvW and PvP are in such a bad state.”

I mean, it’s perfectly legit that you think they are in trouble, but I’m pretty sure that anet have the actual, concrete numbers that tell them the real story, and are actively working to ensure it works to support the real number of players, increase engagement, etc.

(Of course, if you really think that, you could also apply for a job at anet, and use your ideas for how to fix the problem to sell yourself as a great hire to the company, in the interview…)

I wonder if that 400 includes janitorial staff, lunchroom attendants, accountants, administrative staff, technicians (as in the people who keep the physical equipment running), marketing, community management, and oh so many positions that go into supporting a company’s ability to produce and distribute a product.

It’s important to note that Anet (like any game studio) hires a LOT of contract workers. These are artists and programmers who are hired for 4-8 months to work on one project. Most of the time when their contract is up, they leave Anet and take a contract somewhere else. This isn’t abnormal. They aren’t being fired. Their contract is simply a temporary job. Artists especially fall into this category. Anet’s actual employee count probably fluctuates a lot more than we know. It has never been precisely 300, and it wont stay at 400 for very long.

Xenon.4537:

It’s important to note that Anet (like any game studio) hires a LOT of contract workers. These are artists and programmers who are hired for 4-8 months to work on one project. Most of the time when their contract is up, they leave Anet and take a contract somewhere else. This isn’t abnormal. They aren’t being fired. Their contract is simply a temporary job. Artists especially fall into this category. Anet’s actual employee count probably fluctuates a lot more than we know. It has never been precisely 300, and it wont stay at 400 for very long.

Unfortunately it seems to be even harder to convince people that coming to the end of a contract is not the same as being fired than to convince them that not all staff at a games studio are developers. I’m in that position right now – finished one contract last Friday, starting another one next Monday with the same organisation and even people I work with told me they were surprised I was “losing my job”. I just told them I wasn’t surprised because I knew when they hired me it was for 18 months.

The funny part is some of them are on contract too, some for less time than I was.

I’m surprised they didn’t just extend it for another period. Probably to avoid some law about “full time” contract workers Vs employees.

Behellagh.1468:

I’m surprised they didn’t just extend it for another period. Probably to avoid some law about “full time” contract workers Vs employees.

Sometimes modifying an existing contract can be more involved than just implementing a new one. Particularly if using semi-standardized prewritten contracts.

Behellagh.1468:

I’m surprised they didn’t just extend it for another period. Probably to avoid some law about “full time” contract workers Vs employees.

Sometimes modifying an existing contract can be more involved than just implementing a new one. Particularly if using semi-standardized prewritten contracts.

Behellagh.1468:

I’m surprised they didn’t just extend it for another period. Probably to avoid some law about “full time” contract workers Vs employees.

If you’re talking about my job it’s because I’m technically doing something different. Or rather I’m doing the same type of work in another department. I think it’s easier all around to end one contract and start another. Plus I get a week off, which after a crazy non-stop month I really needed.

If you’re talking about Anet I have no idea. America has very different labour laws to the UK (for a start they’d be called labor laws) and I don’t know what kind of contracts they have. In some cases it might be that people wanted to only work there temporarily and then move on to other things. I have a few friends who are games developers and they often get signed onto a project 6 or 12 months in advance and then find something quick and temporary to fill the gap.

Behellagh.1468:

I’m surprised they didn’t just extend it for another period. Probably to avoid some law about “full time” contract workers Vs employees.

If you’re talking about my job it’s because I’m technically doing something different. Or rather I’m doing the same type of work in another department. I think it’s easier all around to end one contract and start another. Plus I get a week off, which after a crazy non-stop month I really needed.

If you’re talking about Anet I have no idea. America has very different labour laws to the UK (for a start they’d be called labor laws) and I don’t know what kind of contracts they have. In some cases it might be that people wanted to only work there temporarily and then move on to other things. I have a few friends who are games developers and they often get signed onto a project 6 or 12 months in advance and then find something quick and temporary to fill the gap.

it might mean we’ll get some new armours in 8 years time,
simple, easily obtainable armour.