Guild Wars 2

I know this is a topic that has been brought up many times in the past but have we ever gotten an idea of what Anet’s philosophy on raids and their place in GW2 could or couldn’t be? I bring this up because I think that this issue tries to address the greatest woe that this game is facing and that is the lack of engaging, epic, and interesting late game PvE content. While FotM allowed in interesting treadmill type progression, it offers little to no variety after one has completed each fractal, only increasing in difficulty. Furthermore the introduction of Agony Resistance as the new sought after stat is exclusive to this one dungeon, not making it very appealing for those who have already gotten sick of FotM. The rewards are simply to few and far between to feel as though FotM satisfies an engaging and dynamic late game experience.

Guild Wars 2 has done a lot of really innovative and interesting things that made me migrate to it, but I see several other MMORPG periodically introduce raiding content with massive bosses and large raid groups and I can’t help but feel a lack of epic conquest that WoW gave me. The drive to continually get better gear is also very watered down in the game, as once I look good in an exotic set, I get the sense that I’m kind of done…

FotM can be continually improved upon with added fractals and rewards in the future and that is fine and a great game plan. I just think its time for Anet to consider how they might implement larger scale raid scenarios that make PvE feel epic and rewarding again. As it stands end game PvE is just too repetitive in GW2 and doesn’t offer enough drive for character/gear progression outside of FotM.

I agree, although most GW1 players won’t. I do miss the drive to get better gear, and the teamwork needed to raid. I really miss feeling a part of a team like I felt in WoW.

How many tiers does WoW have now? 16? 17?

No.

CobaltSixty.1542:

How many tiers does WoW have now? 16? 17?

No.

And where will ascended gear be at in 8 years?

Amos.8760:

I agree, although most GW1 players won’t. I do miss the drive to get better gear, and the teamwork needed to raid. I really miss feeling a part of a team like I felt in WoW.

Luckily for you, there’s a convenient list of MMOs that are heavily based on raiding that you can play instead of GW2.

List: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm

Why is a treadmill even seen as progression? It’s straight from Alice in Wonderland: running as fast as you can just to stay in the same place. That’s not progression it’s either regression (if you’re not keeping up) or staying in the same place.

This isn’t to say that i don’t support large scale instanced pve content requiring coordination between party members as i do but you can keep your treadmills and power creep.

Thank you OP for summing up exactly how I also feel about the game and raids in particular. Also many thanks to Vae Victus and CobaltSixty for posting answers that have nothing to do with the question at hand, as so many do when the word ‘raid’ pops up.

Lets break it down- a raid can be anything GW2 wants it to be so long as it follows a few rules. These usually include a set number of players (lets say 10+), must be a dungeon format and must include a large scale boss battle somewhere in the dungeon, usually at the end. THAT IS IT. Nowhere does it say that new tiers of gear have to be introduced, nowhere does it say you MUST grind and grind to get the super awesome powerful equipment at the end and in no way does it mean it has to be mandatory to run.

This game can take the format of a raid and strip it of all the nasty things people complain about. This game can redefine the raid and I think its something GW2 needs because apart from the world bosses this game does lack that ‘grand scale epicness’ seen in other MMOs. Guild Wars 2 raids can be unique to this game and feature ANYTHING the devs care to design. So why is it that the same group come in here and say “Nope, dont want raids because they stupid!”. Its like saying you dont like the taste of something before you even see, hear or taste what it is.

Vae Victus.3678:

Amos.8760:

I agree, although most GW1 players won’t. I do miss the drive to get better gear, and the teamwork needed to raid. I really miss feeling a part of a team like I felt in WoW.

Luckily for you, there’s a convenient list of MMOs that are heavily based on raiding that you can play instead of GW2.

List: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm

How considerate. Although I’m well aware of the various MMOs on the market, I think I’ve found the one I want to play. Does that mean I can’t wish it had additional content and features?

CobaltSixty.1542:

How many tiers does WoW have now? 16? 17?

No.

Anywhere from 1-2, depending on the time period of the expansion you are in. You see, once you level past 60, 70, 80, 85, there is no need to do those tiers. Once you hit max level, the first pieces you start getting are last raid’s quality. This is your first tier. Then you start working on the current tier in like 1 week after hitting max level, or a couple weeks if you play very casually. It’s really not as bad as you’d like it to be. I’d play a couple nights a week and have current endgame gear. Plus with transmogrification, you can make it look like whatever you want!

Like I said though, the thing I really miss is being part of a team.

Thereon.3495:

Thank you OP for summing up exactly how I also feel about the game and raids in particular. Also many thanks to Vae Victus and CobaltSixty for posting answers that have nothing to do with the question at hand, as so many do when the word ‘raid’ pops up.

Lets break it down- a raid can be anything GW2 wants it to be so long as it follows a few rules. These usually include a set number of players (lets say 10+), must be a dungeon format and must include a large scale boss battle somewhere in the dungeon, usually at the end. THAT IS IT. Nowhere does it say that new tiers of gear have to be introduced, nowhere does it say you MUST grind and grind to get the super awesome powerful equipment at the end and in no way does it mean it has to be mandatory to run.

This game can take the format of a raid and strip it of all the nasty things people complain about. This game can redefine the raid and I think its something GW2 needs because apart from the world bosses this game does lack that ‘grand scale epicness’ seen in other MMOs. Guild Wars 2 raids can be unique to this game and feature ANYTHING the devs care to design. So why is it that the same group come in here and say “Nope, dont want raids because they stupid!”. Its like saying you dont like the taste of something before you even see, hear or taste what it is.

I agree with you except the OP did explicitly mention a gear treadmill

Having raids does not mean tiered gear.

Why do people keep tying great ideas to wow concepts.

They could have raids simply for the challenge and reward amazing skins, money, mats, etc etc.

Why are you all so kitten stuck on treadmill crap and just outright reject anything that MIGHT indicate treadmills in your mind.

Not sure why more people don’t support raids if they had no treadmill… the challenge is welcomed because all the pve content in this game is stupidly easy for the most part…… sorry devs its the truth.

Namu.5712:

Having raids does not mean tiered gear.

Why do people keep tying great ideas to wow concepts.

They could have raids simply for the challenge and reward amazing skins, money, mats, etc etc.

Why are you all so kitten stuck on treadmill crap and just outright reject anything that MIGHT indicate treadmills in your mind.

Not sure why more people don’t support raids if they had no treadmill… the challenge is welcomed because all the pve content in this game is stupidly easy for the most part…… sorry devs its the truth.

My guess is a lot of peoples first mmo was World of Warcraft, most popular mmo anyways. Gear treadmill is either welcomed, or hated, but GW2 already started the treadmill so why stop now?

Anyways I agree, the PvE in this game is to easy and is littered with artificial difficulty.

I’d raid for extra emotes, gear progression be kitten !

I think Therion hit it on the nail with his post. I love GW2 for what it is, but it doesn’t offer the possibility for the sort of victory (or fail) that I loved so much about WoW: big fights with 40 people all focussed on a single mission. Those fights lead to comradery, drama and a feeling of community which I think can only be achieved by offering people a challenge which pushes the envelope.

Now, I know ANet’s manifest includes the mantra “everyone should be able to see all content” – but pushing the envelope doesn’t necessarily preclude anyone. Like hearts, raids could include the option to contribute to the event/raid by non-combatants. It could include a spectator mode, enabling even the most casual to at least see the content.

I don’t want a gear-threadmill (nor level-cap raising, ever!), I want to have the opportunity to wallow in TS/vent silence on a fail, or roaring cries and YMCA-tunage on a win !

For raids to be succesfull and be anti-zerg they would have to make them difficult, meaning that the majority will QQ because everything that involves strategy or listening is to complicated, thus having to be nerfed to a point were a mindless AI zerg could do it aswell as a group of players.
So, if they introduce a raid that is not pug-able the amount of QQ would be bigger then when Asc. gear was introduced, and if it is pug-able you might as well go do the dragons.
Anet should rather focus on releasing some more quaggan items, that seems more appealing to the majority of the player-base + allows them to milk out some more cash.

EDIT: Thank you, Gluttony, for proving my point so precisely and succinctly. I appreciate you providing such a sterling example of exactly what I’m arguing against in this post such a conveniently short distance away, it’ll really help drive the point home.

Now;

Here’s an argument against raids that has nothing to do with gear treadmills or power tiers or any of the rest of those perfectly-valid arguments that Warcraft players keep telling us we’re overblowing.

Ahem: most people can’t do raids.

Let’s examine Thereon’s definition of “raid”, shall we?

Lets break it down- a raid can be anything GW2 wants it to be so long as it follows a few rules. These usually include a set number of players (lets say 10+), must be a dungeon format and must include a large scale boss battle somewhere in the dungeon, usually at the end.

To this, most proponents of raids would add that a certain minimum degree of coordination, planning, and communication must be achieved between those 10+ players in order for the raid to be successful. Typically, this minimum level is set high enough that the average pug stands little to no chance of successfully, as a countermeasure to open-world content typically seen as too easy.

As such, a generally unwritten requirement of raid-style content in Guild Wars 2 is that it be designed to be largely inaccessible to anyone who is not part of a coordinated, communications-equipped guild of at least ten players (i.e. a Warcraft-style ‘raiding guild’), because anything less challenging would not fulfill their requirements of what a raid should be; i.e. more challenging/difficult than the open-world content they specifically claim is no replacement for raiding.

Now. Let me ask all you old Warcraft players – how many players out there do youthink can just whistle themselves up a highly coordinated, com-equipped raiding guild out of whole cloth?

Answer: not nearly as many as you think, and not enough for raids to not be as divisive as Fractals are. A ten-man dungeon difficult enough to require prior coordination and active communications would be very inaccessible to the general playerbase, and while Warcraft players are cool with that – when they don’t actively encourage it as a measure to get all the dirty scrubs out of their game – the rest of us are not, and nor is ArenaNet. This is a game for all of us, folks, not just the top five percent who find soloing Arah to be a bore and are sick of having nothing challenging to do.

How’s that for a reason why raids are a bad idea in this game? Or am I just another scrubby old GW1 player squawking mindlessly about anti-anything Warcraft?

I just want to say something about the struggle of better gear.

Actually many players would like to craft some sort of equip.
The problem is that some of them is a grindfest way more than lineage 2 ._.

I’d like a decent sword SKIN as many Others, i cannot afford 250 lodestones for 1000G
I’d like a legendary….i cannot afford a precursor..

And you know why this happens?
Because gold sellers manipulate the market alongside some players.

This divides equipment and skin in 2 categories.
1) easy toobtain
2) impossible for common players to obtain unless they play like bots or manipulate the market themselves or CHEAT.

You cannot have long term goals because the most you try to reach them, the more they get far.

So you are basically pushed in fast farm like cof1, and anet obviously patch them asap….without addressing the other issue in the meantime…

i.e. an economy that lead the game to stagnation.

We don t need more tiers, we need more skins and obtainble by merit.

Fotm skins are a step in the right direction (save for the fact you drop randomly skins you cannot use) on the opposite legendaries are the icon of what is bad for the game expecially since nov15

Most players are obsessed and just farm in the most efficient way (rather playing) to get one…and i cannot blame them being a tier themselves.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Here’s an argument against raids that has nothing to do with gear treadmills or power tiers or any of the rest of those perfectly-valid arguments that Warcraft players keep telling us we’re overblowing.
<snip>
Answer: not nearly as many as you think, and not enough for raids to not be as divisive as Fractals are. A ten-man dungeon difficult enough to require prior coordination and active communications would be very inaccessible to the general playerbase, and while Warcraft players are cool with that – when they don’t actively encourage it as a measure to get all the dirty scrubs out of their game – the rest of us are not, and nor is ArenaNet. This is a game for all of us, folks, not just the top five percent who find soloing Arah to be a bore and are sick of having nothing challenging to do.

How’s that for a reason why raids are a bad idea in this game? Or am I just another scrubby old GW1 player squawking mindlessly about anti-anything Warcraft?

This argument is at odds with ANet’s manifesto, specifically the part about GW2 aiming to be a serious e-sport game, which requires at least the same level of “prior coordination and active communications” that pushing the PvE envelope would.

OP, to answer your question: areanet has stated that they want you to be out having fun, not preparing to have fun.
How long does it take to organize a raid?
and is that time Having fun, or preparing to have fun?

This argument is at odds with ANet’s manifesto, specifically the part about GW2 aiming to be a serious e-sport game, which requires at least the same level of “prior coordination and active communications” that pushing the PvE envelope would.

A valid point. However, the sPvP system is supposed to be its own reward, with self-contained equipment, items, and other systems that do not impinge upon the rest of the game whatsoever. it does not, for example, give you gear which is statistically fifteen percent better than anything you can score anywhere else, or offer title tracks/completion points that are required for a player who would otherwise be interested in PvE-oriented goals It is, functionally, an entirely separate game from the bulk of Guild Wars 2.

Are you willing to accept that for raids, as well? Are you willing to accept that raids will not impinge upon the ability of players to play to their full potential – whatever it may be - and keep up with their friends by doing world events or dungeons or things that don’t require one to work a second job with a stick-up-its-quaggan raiding guild? You’d be content with players not having to go into raid zones for world completion, or with having raids be only a minor, optional component of monthly completion rewards? You’d be content to have raids drop only new exotic skins (because kitten Ascended gear and Fractals anyways)? You’d be content not to scorn and belittle those folks (like myself) who find small-group content more engaging and interesting than overly elaborate large-group rolling circuses?

If all that’s true, then by all means, try and get ArenaNet to shoehorn in more Warcraft ripoff. Be my guest. If, however, you’re not content for all of that to be the case, then please go take yourself and your raids as far elsewhere as you can manage. Because not all of us have either the resources or the inclination to go and slam our faces against some ridiculously overblown, way-too-long ten man exercise in frustration for five hours. You want a sense of epic accomplishment? Go find a really nasty DE and solo it. At least some of us are glad there is at least ONE game out there that actually remembers that some folks don’t have forty friends to whistle up for every single piece of content.

kitanas.3596:

OP, to answer your question: areanet has stated that they want you to be out having fun, not preparing to have fun.
How long does it take to organize a raid?
and is that time Having fun, or preparing to have fun?

I for one don’t like to craft, I don’t care for world completion and couldn’t deal with a legendary grind – all these things are a part of GW2 but not “fun” to me. So I just skip ’em and do the things I find to be “fun”. None of my GW2 buddies is engaged in all aspects of GW2, everyone picks and chooses their own fun.

As long as raiding isn’t forced on people to stay “geared” it’s content which you can choose to skip without being ‘left behind’. Lastly, for some people, preparing to have fun adds to their enjoyment of the game – leadership and tactical skills are just as valid as skills in combat.

DLL, I think, and I’m not attempting to be insulting here, that you have a rather fixed view here. You have some interesting arguments, but you seem to be coming from the point of ‘I don’t want raids’ and then building your argument to support that.

I played Wow for many years. I raided for a lot of those. I had about 3 friends when I hit max Level in Burning Crusade. It took me about 2 days to find a raiding guild when I decided to see what is up with that raiding nonsense. Stepping into Gruuls Lair that first time was EPIC. I still remember the joy I had learning that first 5 Ogre Boss fight, learning new things about my class, even wiping and trying again, doing better, being part of this 25 man team was amazing. I was NOT a good player then (Combat dagger dagger rogue with no weapon spec blah blah) which in this much more forgiving game would equate to trying to use a water weapon on land. I made friends I never would have made, I enjoyed an entirely new aspect of the game I never before knew existed, and lastly, that experience, those raiding experiences are what kept me there for years and years.

Now I’ve Left wow, with good memories, but it’s become a thing I dont like anymore. (I miss you still protodrakes!) The Moment i got the Beta Weekend invite I was Hooked. I love the Lore, The game, the Visuals, I even liked it enough to go buy GW1 and play that when I take time from this game. It’s a Rich and well thought out world. The First time i saw the Shatterer I almost peed with glee and awe. I PLay WvW, I do dungeons, tho fractals frankly make me wanna slam my dick in a door instead; But even that’s gotten better since I joined a Guild of awesome people. Which took me about 5 minutes of talking to one of thier members after having seen them around for a bit. No one in the guild asked me if I’d done a place before when I wanted to join, they were helpfull and explained things as we went if it was a path Ididnt know. The GW Community as a whole is refreshingly nice and nontoxic.

But I miss Raiding. I do not feel that Raiding will ruin the environment of this game. Raiding does not have to be some gated horror story. It could drop it’s own tokens as Dungeons do. It could let the designers really show how their multi class synergy is supposed to work on a larger but also more controlled scale. It could drop Unique weapon skins. Heck! Even let it affect your world in a manner like WVW (minor crafting bonuses for all when we crush the Giant Risen Sea Turtle: Tortizahn! Who Drops an awesome looking Spear skin that only those who have defeated him may get a chance to obtain!)

I do not see how this would effect your idea of this game. It’s a large Dungeon that’s Difficult and would require team work and coordination. It’s not Wow-Herpes.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

If all that’s true, then by all means, try and get ArenaNet to shoehorn in more Warcraft ripoff. Be my guest. If, however, you’re not content for all of that to be the case, then please go take yourself and your raids as far elsewhere as you can manage. Because not all of us have either the resources or the inclination to go and slam our faces against some ridiculously overblown, way-too-long ten man exercise in frustration for five hours. You want a sense of epic accomplishment? Go find a really nasty DE and solo it. At least some of us are glad there is at least ONE game out there that actually remembers that some folks don’t have forty friends to whistle up for every single piece of content.

That’s a fallacy of false dilemma if I’ve ever seen one. “Raiding” existed in GW1 in the form of elite areas, and that’s what I’d like to see in this game. Actually, they could take it a step further and toss in the dynamic difficulty scaling from events, and a tiered system similar to fractals. I’m not sure how far you’ve gotten in fractals, but the higher tiers are a LOT more than just mobs with more HP and damage; aside from the unfortunate introduction of Ascended gear, the fractals themselves are a pretty brilliant piece of programming.

I know that I would GLADLY run this type of content for a title or skins. Really, I’d run it just for the challenge, and more interesting and complex encounters. The most complex event in this game that I’ve seen is Temple of Grenth, and that’s only about as mechanically interesting as the lowest raiding tier in most games — it just doesn’t satisfy.

Personally, I’m at this awkward place where I REALLY miss raiding, but GW2’s combat mechanics have spoiled me to where I have no desire to play a game that has those raids

I’m not the only person looking for more complex and challenging content in this game, especially large-scale content. It’s a missed opportunity on A-net’s part.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

You’d be content not to scorn and belittle those folks (like myself) who find small-group content more engaging and interesting than overly elaborate large-group rolling circuses?

To put my remarks in context: even though I have raided reasonably seriously in WoW, I’ve stopped raiding a long time ago, exactly because I dislike the gear threadmill and in GW2 I usually solo or play with a small circle of friends – who were far more into WoW raiding than me. So we are the type of “folk” you’re describing.

I doubt it is as clear-cut and as you put it and ANet has proven itself to be more than capable to find approaches that work, in many parts of the game. IMO e.g. the introduction of the new achievement tokens with which you can buy ascended gear is a good start in pulling down the wall that HAS grown between those running fractals and the more casual folk – like you and me.

anet will may not add raid dungeons, but a idea they could put in the game is events with silvermobs, huge epic bosses at places like tempels wich you get some valuable loot, these events could link togheter, so when you kill one boss you have to fight your way trough a new wave of silver mobs(since there may be a huge zerg mabe champs aswell).

might have to places stuff like this in a huge cave or valley were it wont bother people who dont wanna join the event. i would love to see stuff like this. i find tempel events super epic. its not always super easy and tend to gather alot of people wich dont make me feel like some OP hero that saves tyria by himself. seeing something like tempel bosses spawning rapidly in a huge meta event with hard mobs around is a idea that really triggers me

edit: i feel like event is lacking since they tend to be easy and soloable, besides events in cursed shore there are none that gathers alot of people, here is where the loot part comes in, increasing the chance for rare/exotic at huge meta events. for example tempel events and protecting/assaulting arah gates

Wretchedscar: You’re correct. I don’t want raids in GW2. Much like how the devs wasted time, energy, and customer goodwill with their Ascended nonsense and the botched introduction of Fractals, I would prefer they did not spend their time, energy, and more customer goodwill adding content that goes specifically against the manifesto of the game they sold me. I don’t normally go for “Manifesto!” arguments, but in this case I will simply state that I never completed The Deep or Urgoz’s Warren back in Guild Wars 1 – not because I was a scrub or a noob or a bad player, I actually regularly helped my brother out in Underworld/Realm of Torment work – but because it required too flippin’ many bodies. I could never get enough folks together to do them, so I never got to see them despite logging over two thousand hours on my GW1 account. That still rankles with me, and I will be as vocal as I can manage against having the same fraggin’ thing happen to me in this game, as well.

Silentsins: see above. I don’t know enough people, nor is the guild I’m currently in large enough or h4rdcor3 1337z enough to pull together a big mess of players to go and do some piece of massive content. I haven’t done any Fractals whatsoever for mostly the same reason, though Fractals are also admittedly closer to the old Hall of Heroes nonsense than to elite areas. That’s another thing I never got to do in Guild Wars 1, mostly because if you hadn’t been doing it right from the start and could thus display your r9 emote on command, you couldn’t find a group even if you had a guild to do it with. Which…sounds a lot like Fractals, come to think of it.

Goettel: I don’t see why ArenaNet has to abandon small-group content for the sake of doing the same fraggin’ thing every other MMO in the last five years has done, that’s basically all. I’m hoping to see refinements to the existing dungeons, and for Orr to be developed into the sort of never-ending warzone it’s supposed to be as an interesting replacement for the typical raid grind that every other MMO declares is the only viable endgame out there. Players who wanted the large-scale group accomplishments were supposed to head for Wuvwuv – which, admittedly, has its own problems at the moment.

Nevertheless, the game all of you want to play takes directly away from the game I want to play. Am I not permitted to voice my objections the way you’re permitted to voice your desires?

Nothing wrong with voicing objections, however I do not see how this takes away from you. I mean personally I wish sPVP wasn’t in this game, because they often nerf down PVE because of PVP imbalance, which leads to homogenization between classes, which we already have enough of without traditional roles or the ability to go ‘full’ tank or heal. I think that does far worse then making larger more difficult dungeons. Also: Anet states that they have separate teams working on different things. A Team working on Holiday content is separate from the team adding to PVE is separate from the billing team is seperate from the Wvw Team. So if they decided to add raids, I would imagine they would hire a team to develop them, and the resources going towards the content that you love would not be diminished. I in no way want to take anything from your enjoyment of the game, I simply with to enjoy my game more.

Nappychappy.7046:

CobaltSixty.1542:

How many tiers does WoW have now? 16? 17?

No.

And where will ascended gear be at in 8 years?

Hopefully still at exactly the same stat level as it is right now. Anything else will not be taken lightly by the majority. Stat levels really need a top tier as a constant to keep casual players in the game. Having a definitive end goal is what makes this game attractive, even if it takes years to get the coveted legendary.

[cut] Edited by Moderator

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Nevertheless, the game all of you want to play takes directly away from the game I want to play.

I’m still not convinced that is necessarily the case, we’ll see how it plays out.

My experience raiding in AoC is of essentially multiplayer puzzles that once you’ve solved, require no actual skill, just correct timing of particular skill activation.
You then repeat these on a weekly basis in the vain hopes of receiving one piece of equipment that 3 other people are rolling on.
The first time you do this content, it’s interesting. Subsequent times issue diminishing returns in fun stakes.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Instanced content with scripted encounters that play out identically every time you play them are the antithesis of what MMOs should be about. MMOs should be about emergent encounters driven by player interaction with a world’s systems.

By in game benefits you mean cosmetic goodies? Also ‘most raiders are too elitist’ is a rather sweeping statement. Like saying all Germans are Anti-Semetic

You have to realize, Scar, that the raiding set around the forums is going to be catching a lot of the remnant heat from the whole Ascended gear debacle, since it was the “WE WANT RAIDZ!!11!oneeleven” sorts who managed to get ArenaNet to ball up seven years of integrity and player trust and huck it in our faces. Even those few remaining players who are willing to still extend them a chance (i.e. me and maybe three other guys on the forum) are still quite kittened off about that, and we pretty much blame you folks for it. So your arguments are going to be falling on…well, maybe three or four sets of deaf ears. As well as a lot of ears who are going to be thanking you for dealing a devastating blow to our game already.

You guys who want challenge and raid-style gear grind kind of already got your thing. Can the rest of us not have to deal with it anymore?

i really dont get why there is always people that want all game do the same.

There is plenty of games, with raids, gear progression, P2W options etc etc etc…
Have this poeple look any interwiev or blogspot before buying this game?

Its like buy a product sugar free, advertised as sugar free, then cry because its not so sweet and ask to the manufaturer to add some sugar, because the product will really benefit with it.

W.T.F.!

Raids are not inherently tied to gear progression.

Raids are simply large-scale organized group/guild PvE content.

Something this game DESPERATELY needs.

CobaltSixty.1542:

How many tiers does WoW have now? 16? 17?

No.

Nappychappy.7046:

CobaltSixty.1542:

How many tiers does WoW have now? 16? 17?

No.

And where will ascended gear be at in 8 years?

Touchdown!

And i agree that they wont stop with ascended so prepare for drama!

Why are people saying that most people can’t do raids? If we look at WoW: there is now a tool that almost ‘encourages’ people to PUG, it is in the LFG tool and it is an EASIER difficulty than normal. People can queue up for 10 or 25 man of the raid,with an easier difficulty, I do believe slightly worse drops but I am not sure here and shazam! Everyone can do raids.

Most raids have been nerfed and dumbed down anyway, because, here’s the kicker: Blizzard also wants the content to be available and playable for everyone (where have we heard this one before? Oh right.). This has obviously angered a lot of the elitists, but still on heroic mode it’s a challenge, especially once you start achievement hunting.

As of right now with Fractals there are a lot of difficulty levels and something like that could be implemented in raiding (80 levels being a bit excessive) but then everyone can choose their difficulty and play on their level. Yes some people will not take the time, some might not even like it, but there is a HUGE demand for it. How can I tell? Because of all these threads about it! Also when I talk to people in-game there are a lot that would like raiding (or at least more open world awesomeness, luckily that is coming).

In essence raids stand for what GW stands for: coming together and doing huge epic fights, no you say? Explain the Dragon fights then. Oh right. I am not saying they are perfect, but in essence that is what a raid is.

There is a huge group that wants raids, I am a part of that group and most ‘anti raiding’ arguments are invalid. YOU don’t like it? Fine, to each their own, just like I don’t PvP much. There will always be differences and that’s fine, just when you involve yourself in a topic like this, at least have decent arguments, because I have not come across a single one.

PEACE

no more gear tiers. Ever.
Up for skins, mats and whatever else.
Raids? well…. it may be worth talking about

Direksone.3867:

In essence raids stand for what GW stands for: coming together and doing huge epic fights, no you say? Explain the Dragon fights then. Oh right. I am not saying they are perfect, but in essence that is what a raid is.

There is a huge difference.
In the standard raid model, you prepare the group and then you go to the raid, only with your group!

The world bossed are just casual you can join it without a group. SO if add raid is equal to add more world bosses, yes its ok, and with new areas and expansions, they will surely add other world bosses (i hope like the ancient karka fight, that was awesome as boss)
But if add raids is equal to add 10\25 man istances with better loot then the rest of the game, well you are just playing the wrong game.

Ganzo.5079:

Direksone.3867:

In essence raids stand for what GW stands for: coming together and doing huge epic fights, no you say? Explain the Dragon fights then. Oh right. I am not saying they are perfect, but in essence that is what a raid is.

There is a huge difference.
In the standard raid model, you prepare the group and then you go to the raid, only with your group!

The world bossed are just casual you can join it without a group. SO if add raid is equal to add more world bosses, yes its ok, and with new areas and expansions, they will surely add other world bosses (i hope like the ancient karka fight, that was awesome as boss)
But if add raids is equal to add 10\25 man istances with better loot then the rest of the game, well you are just playing the wrong game.

That’s not a huge difference at all. You can pick up people with ease and do the raids, I have done this in the past plenty of times in WoW and worked out fine. Also I never said adding raids would mean better loot for those that do it. I would see it as another dungeon with tokens and more skins available. NOW NOW NOW, I see you all raging behind your screens! “WHAT?! I HAVE TO DO THIS RAID TO GET A CERTAIN SKIN?! WTF IS THIS?!” Well my friend. I have a solution. Perhaps have this raiding area be a Citadel and next to have a raiding instance for let’s say 10 man, also have a 5 man dungeon. Different than the raid, perhaps slightly easier, tokens amount you get are slightly lower (because the difficulty is lower and it’s easier to obtain a group, be real: rewards should be proportionate of course), but you still are able to get the same skins/gear as those that raid, they might get it faster of course.

I find it quite obnoxious how so many people rage and complain that it is not something THEY want to do and they don’t want the developers to spend time on something THEY do not want to do. How selfish. Then again, not surprising. News flash: each area has their own development team. As someone pointed out, if raids would be added either the PvE team would be expanded or a raiding team added. So don’t you worry about YOUR development time.

I don’t care for Raids, well, Raids as defined by WoW. If Anet introduces them, I’d like for them to completely overhaul the concept and make it worthwhile, as well as fitting in the GW2 scene.

The only thing I truly want is some PvE content that is challenging. Something that will force my friends and me to really try, pushing us to play better. As it is now, there is nothing in PvE that we can’t get done easily.

Gisei.5749:

I don’t care for Raids, well, Raids as defined by WoW. If Anet introduces them, I’d like for them to completely overhaul the concept and make it worthwhile, as well as fitting in the GW2 scene.

The only thing I truly want is some PvE content that is challenging. Something that will force my friends and me to really try, pushing us to play better. As it is now, there is nothing in PvE that we can’t get done easily.

Same here my friend, same here. There are cool mechanics out there! Fractals has some, CoF has some, every dungeon has some. There are still generic tank n spank style bosses that are just boring, but okay, let’s stay positive here.

I love the combat in GW, way more engaging than the traditional style that most MMO’s have. If they indeed GuildWarsify the concept of raids I’m all down. All they need is the essence: group of players coming together to complete (hard(er)) content, this being a somewhat larger group. That’s all there is to it, whatever they make of it is up to them to be honest. There should be nice rewards in place however, but they are working on improving all of that as well so by the time raids, if ever, are released I think the rewards system(s) will be a hell of a lot better than they are now.

Ganzo.5079:

Its like buy a product sugar free, advertised as sugar free, then cry because its not so sweet and ask to the manufaturer to add some sugar, because the product will really benefit with it.

W.T.F.!

I agree. I’m so tired of reading the word “raids” on this forum even. I’m glad that they don’t exist and that fact is part of why I like this game!

I don’t like the idea of extra content that requires 10 or more people to enter at all. I don’t want to be in a huge anonymous guild with loads of people in order to get “organized” for that, and our small comfy place doesn’t ever have ten people online at the same time.

It was the same situation in another MMO where there were raids – you end up with half the people being desperate to raid and play that content, while the other half doesn’t care but feels pushed because they don’t want to let their friends down. No thanks, go away with your raid stuff please. Too much stress.

Then don’t play it. Oh no, wait, wait. Because YOU don’t like something, you want to take the pleasure out of hundreds, no thousands of players who do enjoy raiding? Okay. Solid reason.

No, what I mean was actually to point out how it wouldn’t just affect the people who want to play raids anyway, but create dynamics among the playerbase that affect others as well.
This was a constant struggle in other MMOs with raids that I played and I am glad it is not present in this game, thanks to lack of raids.

Fair enough, I never experienced such a thing. However, the main ‘problem’ or reason that there is a demand for raids is because there isn’t a lot of difficult PvE content right now. People like coming together in a group of 10, it creates a bond among them. I can remember after weeks of wiping on the Lich King that we finally killed him, it was a glorious day indeed.

Then again: people are spoiled and impatient and don’t wish to wait for new content. Monthly updates are more than most do, but apparently that is not enough either.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

I don’t want raids in GW2. Much like how the devs wasted time, energy, and customer goodwill with their Ascended nonsense and the botched introduction of Fractals, I would prefer they did not spend their time, energy, and more customer goodwill adding content that goes specifically against the manifesto of the game they sold me.

Goettel: I don’t see why ArenaNet has to abandon small-group content for the sake of doing the same fraggin’ thing every other MMO in the last five years has done, that’s basically all.

Nevertheless, the game all of you want to play takes directly away from the game I want to play. Am I not permitted to voice my objections the way you’re permitted to voice your desires?

I don’t want raids in GW2 either and that would be the fastest way to lose me as a player and lose my gem buying money.

If you all want raids, why not go play a game that has more then enough of them?

Raiding is awful. I quit another gaming because of the raiding.

I’ll quit GW2 just as quickly.

No to raids.

Namu.5712:

Having raids does not mean tiered gear.

Why do people keep tying great ideas to wow concepts.

They could have raids simply for the challenge and reward amazing skins, money, mats, etc etc.

Why are you all so kitten stuck on treadmill crap and just outright reject anything that MIGHT indicate treadmills in your mind.

Not sure why more people don’t support raids if they had no treadmill… the challenge is welcomed because all the pve content in this game is stupidly easy for the most part…… sorry devs its the truth.

Fact is, most raiders who claim they do it for the ‘challenge’ are actually no better than the rest: they do it for the phat lewt and are the first to demand’ incentives’ (aka. more exclusive phat lewt) to do ‘hard’ content.

But how is that bad Kraggy? Every aspect in the game is being rewarded. especially as they are improving the reward systems. Raids should be no different.

Direksone.3867:

People like coming together in a group of 10, it creates a bond among them. I can remember after weeks of wiping on the Lich King that we finally killed him, it was a glorious day indeed.

Some of course think the only real raiding content in WOW was the 40-man stuff.

Raids aren’t the answer to a weak end game. I can’t think of anything worse than being forced to group up with 20+ other people to do content, when chances are, I wouldn’t otherwise be interested in so much as spending five minutes chatting with them, let alone an hour plus doing challenging content. At least with five people, I can ensure that those people are actual friends, and not just names added to my list of contacts. I prefer to game with friends. That way I can actually slap them upside the head when they whine. In a raid group of near strangers, there’s no way to shut up the incessant kittening.

I agree with Halanna. If you want raids, play a game that has them. If they come to this game, I’m gone. I’m not interested in a repeat of the WoW endgame experience. Once was enough.

Zeldain.5710:

Raids are not inherently tied to gear progression.

Raids are simply large-scale organized group/guild PvE content.

Something this game DESPERATELY needs.

This so much, I love raiding . While I have become more casual with it over time I still enjoy the group dynamics of working together which of course comes with a social aspect desperately needed.