Guild Wars 2

A quick google search will give you the confirmation you seek

Some of our players believe that because we are doing this Living World seasons, and these features or these big feature-builds, that it means that the features you would traditionally get in an expansion, or the content you would traditionally get in an expansion, is not something that will get added to Guild Wars 2. And that is not true at all.

“Not only are we doing those things, new features and content you would traditionally get from a boxed expansion are also things that will be added to Guild Wars 2.

“The thing that we haven’t decided yet,” he went on, "is what form that type of content will take. Is it right for Guild Wars 2 for that kind of boxed expansion? Is it right for that to be something we add, live, through storylines in the game? Is that something we want to sell through our in-game store? There are a lot of different options available to us.

“… but we absolutely are going to do sweeping new features that you would traditionally only get in expansions – large regions, content and progression additions to your characters in the form of growth and professions and races. Those are all things that you will see in the lifespan of Guild Wars 2.

You know, like I already told you in the other thread.

And yes, they have already stated that they have a large content team working behind the scenes of the LS folks.

What GW2 has after one year of release compared to what GW1 had after a year of release is kind of sad.

The end game content is getting rather stale, and I have no desire to chase the LW/LS updates. There is little to no real content found in these updates, it’s just a list of chores that revolves around a story that’s not that interesting to me. If you like this sort of thing then I’m happy for you.

I want more, and I want better, and I’m willing to buy it if they put it out. This is me as a customer saying hey I like your product, if you put out more I will buy it.

What some of us are asking for is new skills (and weapons), new gear that can be earned (gem store skins are nice but dungeon vendors have sold the same thing for over a year), new dungeons, new professions, possibly new races, new zones or continents to explore and Quality of Life updates.

There’s a reason why the content we have been getting through the LW bi-weekly updates is free. There’s very little substance to it. FOTM couldn’t sell an expansion alone and while fun the player base is divided on SAB which was just supposed to be an April fools joke that took on a life of it’s on. The only dungeon update we have is the Aether path that replaced an existing path. The MF and AR were chopped up and thrown into fractals this was better than letting them go in the trash with the other temp content, but they could have given us an all new permanent dungeon instead.

If Anet packaged all of the Season 1 LW content up into a box and tried to sell it I think they’d get a lot of criticism for a lacking expansion. Living World, isn’t permanent it is filler, plain and simple. I know Anet has to pay the bills and I’m fine with gem store LW tie-ins. Eventually though the luster of LW is going to dim and the core group of regulars are going to find a new game if the only new content we get is what’s given through the LW. I am saying this based on what I know of LW so far I’ve been playing since release, I am not looking forward to season 2, it is my opinion that it will be more the same.

MastaNeenja.1537:

If Anet packaged all of the Season 1 LW content up into a box and tried to sell it I think they’d get a lot of criticism for a lacking expansion.

You could say that.

Kalarchis.8635:

-snip-

Well I hope they start soon, since they are long overdue.

TehPwnerer.7215:

Also, let’s not forget that ArenaNet did what far too often many developers do. They tried to cater to too many different types of players while alienating the fans and type of player that made their games popular in the first place. If GW1 had not been successful, there’d be no GW2.

So logically, they went the route of screwing over the very players that made their first game popular and enjoyable in favor of players who wouldn’t stick with the game anyway. Had GW2 actually been as advertised and been a sequel to GW1, been everything we loved about GW1 but improved upon, then GW2 would have a booming playerbase of people who loved GW1 and are now content with GW2 replacing the first game for them.

What they got instead is a bunch of peeved veterans and fans of the first game leaving GW2 because they tried to make it too much like (insert other MMO here), while the players who came from that other MMO have already gone back because GW2 doesn’t cater to them like their old game did.

That’s the unfortunate truth (bold). The GW1 fans were going to buy GW2 anyway so all they needed to do is cater to other gamer types to maximize their profits (sales) and they did.

I’m also a fan of the paid expansion content delivery type and not of the bi-weekly free content delivery type. Maybe we can have both… maybe.

maddoctor.2738:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Nageth.5648:

I’m confused where we aren’t getting new content. Eotm was a rather substantial update.

THIS is a substantial update:
-new story
-41 new armor sets, including rare, stand-alone pieces
-100 new profession-specific skills (10 per profession, none of which are elite)
-50 new PvE only skills including 3 elite skills
-10 new heroes
-18 Dungeons
-124 new quests
-The Hall of Monuments
-4 new regions (which were comprised of 24 zones, yes that’s right, 24!)

This is what we got for one of the gw1 expansions (eye of the north)

And you paid full price for it…

Free content:
Sorrow’s Furnace
Domain of Anguish
Hard Mode
GW Beyond.

All of those together are at least equal to all the LS we got so far… and are in addition to the expansions.

Kalarchis.8635:

A quick google search will give you the confirmation you seek

Some of our players believe that because we are doing this Living World seasons, and these features or these big feature-builds, that it means that the features you would traditionally get in an expansion, or the content you would traditionally get in an expansion, is not something that will get added to Guild Wars 2. And that is not true at all.

“Not only are we doing those things, new features and content you would traditionally get from a boxed expansion are also things that will be added to Guild Wars 2.

“The thing that we haven’t decided yet,” he went on, "is what form that type of content will take. Is it right for Guild Wars 2 for that kind of boxed expansion? Is it right for that to be something we add, live, through storylines in the game? Is that something we want to sell through our in-game store? There are a lot of different options available to us.

“… but we absolutely are going to do sweeping new features that you would traditionally only get in expansions – large regions, content and progression additions to your characters in the form of growth and professions and races. Those are all things that you will see in the lifespan of Guild Wars 2.

You know, like I already told you in the other thread.

And yes, they have already stated that they have a large content team working behind the scenes of the LS folks.

I’ve learned to take everything anyone from ArenaNet says with a couple of teaspoons of salt. Remember they also said this:

ArenaNet won’t stoop to selling unfair pay-to-win Gem Store (real-money store) items either, he assured me.

Source

Astralporing.1957:

Free content:
Sorrow’s Furnace
Domain of Anguish
Hard Mode
GW Beyond.

All of those together are at least equal to all the LS we got so far… and are in addition to the expansions.

I remember when all those updates launched and how pumped everyone was. They took time to release, they were quality updates, they are still played today, they were free – just like living story. The big difference is that all the stuff mentioned is still available to play and enjoy in GW1 – whereas each living story update has hours of content, if that, and then goes away forever.

Also just for everyone’s info, to this day people are still doing War in Kryta, other GW Beyond storylines, DoA, FoW, UW, etc. GW1 is still very much alive.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

maddoctor.2738:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Nageth.5648:

I’m confused where we aren’t getting new content. Eotm was a rather substantial update.

THIS is a substantial update:
-new story
-41 new armor sets, including rare, stand-alone pieces
-100 new profession-specific skills (10 per profession, none of which are elite)
-50 new PvE only skills including 3 elite skills
-10 new heroes
-18 Dungeons
-124 new quests
-The Hall of Monuments
-4 new regions (which were comprised of 24 zones, yes that’s right, 24!)

This is what we got for one of the gw1 expansions (eye of the north)

And you paid full price for it…

I gladly did. It was well worth it. I rather have top content for a price, than garbage for nothing.

Never said the opposite, I’d gladly pay for high quality expansion over some temporary fluff. The big deal is they have a much broader player base now, and how is the majority of players going to react to a paid expansion is something nobody knows, but there had been threads even on these forums on the subject “Would you buy a GW2 Expansion?” with mixed results. Obviously these forums aren’t exactly the best way to find out what the majority of the playerbase wants/thinks but those posts do show something.

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Nageth.5648:

I’m confused where we aren’t getting new content. Eotm was a rather substantial update.

THIS is a substantial update:
-new story
-41 new armor sets, including rare, stand-alone pieces
-100 new profession-specific skills (10 per profession, none of which are elite)
-50 new PvE only skills including 3 elite skills
-10 new heroes
-18 Dungeons
-124 new quests
-The Hall of Monuments
-4 new regions (which were comprised of 24 zones, yes that’s right, 24!)

This is what we got for one of the gw1 expansions (eye of the north)

And you paid full price for it…

Free content:
Sorrow’s Furnace
Domain of Anguish
Hard Mode
GW Beyond.

All of those together are at least equal to all the LS we got so far… and are in addition to the expansions.

Those exceed the LS. And those are all still in GW1 today, and can be played at your leisure.

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Nageth.5648:

I’m confused where we aren’t getting new content. Eotm was a rather substantial update.

THIS is a substantial update:
-new story
-41 new armor sets, including rare, stand-alone pieces
-100 new profession-specific skills (10 per profession, none of which are elite)
-50 new PvE only skills including 3 elite skills
-10 new heroes
-18 Dungeons
-124 new quests
-The Hall of Monuments
-4 new regions (which were comprised of 24 zones, yes that’s right, 24!)

This is what we got for one of the gw1 expansions (eye of the north)

And you paid full price for it…

Free content:
Sorrow’s Furnace
Domain of Anguish
Hard Mode
GW Beyond.

All of those together are at least equal to all the LS we got so far… and are in addition to the expansions.

And we got all those after how many years?

For example, the Free content we got for Prophecies was a new zone (Grenth’s Footprint), a dungeon with different paths (Sorrow’s Furnace) and a couple of high difficulty quests in a line (Titan Quests) along with the Unique (Green) Item drops from bosses. Later on, we got the revamp of the Tombs of the Primeval Kings (around the release of Factions)

I’d hardly call those equal to what we got in GW2 so far.

Of course they can do both, the real question is how well will a GW2 expansion sell at this point?

Mad, you left out FoW and UW, which were both added to prophecies within the first year of release. Two complete elite dungeons, plus Sorrow’s Furnace. Three permanent dungeons is already triple the content GW2 has managed in 18 months.

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Nageth.5648:

I’m confused where we aren’t getting new content. Eotm was a rather substantial update.

THIS is a substantial update:
-new story
-41 new armor sets, including rare, stand-alone pieces
-100 new profession-specific skills (10 per profession, none of which are elite)
-50 new PvE only skills including 3 elite skills
-10 new heroes
-18 Dungeons
-124 new quests
-The Hall of Monuments
-4 new regions (which were comprised of 24 zones, yes that’s right, 24!)

This is what we got for one of the gw1 expansions (eye of the north)

And you paid full price for it…

Free content:
Sorrow’s Furnace
Domain of Anguish
Hard Mode
GW Beyond.

All of those together are at least equal to all the LS we got so far… and are in addition to the expansions.

And we got all those after how many years?

For example, the Free content we got for Prophecies was a new zone (Grenth’s Footprint), a dungeon with different paths (Sorrow’s Furnace) and a couple of high difficulty quests in a line (Titan Quests) along with the Unique (Green) Item drops from bosses. Later on, we got the revamp of the Tombs of the Primeval Kings (around the release of Factions)

I’d hardly call those equal to what we got in GW2 so far.

Of course they can do both, the real question is how well will a GW2 expansion sell at this point?

A GW2 expansion would sell ridiculously well. It generates major hype. It brings new players in and lures old players back. You don’t see big feature articles on sites like IGN about the Living Story updates, and they don’t generate the kind of excitement that an expansion does. Just wait and see how many subscriptions WoW picks up once it’s new expansion hits.

stale.9785:

Mad, you left out FoW and UW, which were both added to prophecies within the first year of release. Two complete elite dungeons, plus Sorrow’s Furnace. Three permanent dungeons is already triple the content GW2 has managed in 18 months.

I’m certain FoW and UW where both in Guild Wars 1 at release. You only had to become Ascended to reach them and that took some time at first.

Titan Quests and Sorrow’s Furnace were added with the September 2005 update and the Tomb of Primeval Kings was transformed into a pve dungeon in Janurary 2006.

I could be mixing release with the beta – I was around for both. I know that when I started, there was no FoW or UW, but it was an early addition. (Difference between beta play and live release, maybe?)

Nonetheless, we got more for free in GW1 than we have so far with GW2. Once you add the paid expansions, there’s no comparison at all. We’re getting far less, and far less quality, than we would otherwise.

GW2 is way bigger than Prophecies was at release.

Interestingly people like to throw around tons of numbers but they don’t like to throw number of professions and number of races.

They also don’t like to talk about crafting.

The only free zone updates I remember are Sorrows Furnace and Domain of Anguish.

GW1 added very few in terms of free content.

People just don’t understand that GW1 basically had a tiny Live Team while GW2 has a decently sized live team while the rest of studio is still bigger than during GW1.

Swoo.5079:

GW2 is way bigger than Prophecies was at release.

Interestingly people like to throw around tons of numbers
Those are called facts, it’s what people tend to use in arguments
but they don’t like to throw number of professions and number of races.
gw1 had more professions… not at release no, but gw2 is not at release, it’s been out for over a year
They also don’t like to talk about crafting.
Because it’s boring as kitten
GW1 added very few in terms of free content.
And that’s why the content added in gw1 vastly superior. Free =/= better
People just don’t understand that GW1 basically had a tiny Live Team while GW2 has a decently sized live team.
Indeed, gw2 has a lot more developers working on it. So why are we getting less?

Guild Wars 2 at release has indeed more content than Guild Wars 1 at release. But in the end, gw1 got tons more content and guild wars 2 is not at release anymore.

kitten , Windu – I want to be able to give you a gift over the net. Head on straight, and not trolling. Dear Anet- hire Windu to keep you honest.

5 races instead of 1 definitely makes a difference to the amount of new armours. Since if you multiply the amount of new armours by the races you end up with a similar amount of total work done.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Swoo.5079:

GW2 is way bigger than Prophecies was at release.

Interestingly people like to throw around tons of numbers
Those are called facts, it’s what people tend to use in arguments
but they don’t like to throw number of professions and number of races.
gw1 had more professions… not at release no, but gw2 is not at release, it’s been out for over a year
They also don’t like to talk about crafting.
Because it’s boring as kitten
GW1 added very few in terms of free content.
And that’s why the content added in gw1 vastly superior. Free =/= better
People just don’t understand that GW1 basically had a tiny Live Team while GW2 has a decently sized live team.
Indeed, gw2 has a lot more developers working on it. So why are we getting less?

Guild Wars 2 at release has indeed more content than Guild Wars 1 at release. But in the end, gw1 got tons more content and guild wars 2 is not at release anymore.

And Guild Wars 2 isn’t at the end yet.

GW1 also took less time to develop than GW2, so I don’t see why it is surprising that a GW2 expansion will take more time than a GW1 expansion.

Private instanced zones is a complete different beast than persistent zones – that is why MMORPGs take longer to develop than Single player games.

Worlds Apart

The Living World has given us a lot of content over the months, but unfortunately, much of it is now gone and no longer available.

There are some lingering changes, to be sure, and many, many welcome quality-of-life and gameplay refinements (all of which I greatly appreciate), but once the short-lived novelty of each Living Story release fades (and it tends to fade more quickly as the new installments start to blend together in their similarities), we’re left with a game that offers little more in the way of playable (and replayable) content than it did at launch.

I consider that the “spectacular disappointment” of the Living World.

It’s not for lack of talent. ArenaNet has some of the very best artists, writers and designers in the business.

It’s not even for lack of content. Taken together, the Living Story has added a tremendous number of things to do and explore — at least, for a while.

But now most of it is gone. New players will never see it, existing players who missed it have missed it forever, and players who enjoyed it and would like to experience it again will never be able to do so.

What does remain, such as Southsun Cove or the ruins of the Tower of Nightmares, appeals to a very narrow minority of players and offers little incentive to play or replay. The Edge of the Mists is an encouraging exception (at least for players that like some PvP with their PvE) by being permanent, replayable, and a breathtakingly beautiful map as well (and a clever way to take the edge off WvW wait queues), but alas, it is an exception.

Time waits for no one, but the tragedy of the Living World is that it leaves so many behind, or out in the cold altogether.

My wish upon a star for the next season of the Living World is that it will focus more on new permanent, replayable content (Edges of the Mists “for the rest of us”, if you will) that all players, now and in the future, can enjoy whenever they want.

I know that’s not necessarily easy in the context of a vision of “changing the world forever” (i.e., “blowing stuff up”), but if anyone can do it, ArenaNet can.

Or so I pray.

This game need an expansion 3-6 months ago….the game is coming to and end….as soon you will have some competition that will pretty much kill this game except for the hardcore folks who will stick around.

Majic.4801:

But now most of it is gone. New players will never see it, existing players who missed it have missed it forever, and players who enjoyed it and would like to experience it again will never be able to do so.

New players have the release content to play that they haven’t played yet since they are… new players.

Existing players that missed it, weren’t actually playing at the time those things happened or were doing something else. And if at a point the content wasn’t staying for long, the last few releases have stayed for at least a month.

Some of things aren’t repeatable but others will return.

There is of course the fact that there will be some other Living Story running at some point.

Clexzor.6351:

This game need an expansion 3-6 months ago….the game is coming to and end….as soon you will have some competition that will pretty much kill this game except for the hardcore folks who will stick around.

By competition you mean games that will have a subscription fee?
Which games are going to “kill” GW2?

Swoo.5079:

Clexzor.6351:

This game need an expansion 3-6 months ago….the game is coming to and end….as soon you will have some competition that will pretty much kill this game except for the hardcore folks who will stick around.

By competition you mean games that will have a subscription fee?
Which games are going to “kill” GW2?

No game really ever kills another, they do that to themselves.

Having said that, if EQN lives up to even a fraction of it’s potential, other mmos competing against it will have a hard time.

Fenrir.3609:

Swoo.5079:

Clexzor.6351:

This game need an expansion 3-6 months ago….the game is coming to and end….as soon you will have some competition that will pretty much kill this game except for the hardcore folks who will stick around.

By competition you mean games that will have a subscription fee?
Which games are going to “kill” GW2?

No game really ever kills another, they do that to themselves.

Having said that, if EQN lives up to even a fraction of it’s potential, other mmos competing against it will have a hard time.

Nah. If it lives up to a fraction of its potential, no matter how good it is, people will be disappointed, and feel disenfranchised and leave.

Isn’t that what happened to this game?

Nage.1520:

Fenrir.3609:

Swoo.5079:

Clexzor.6351:

This game need an expansion 3-6 months ago….the game is coming to and end….as soon you will have some competition that will pretty much kill this game except for the hardcore folks who will stick around.

By competition you mean games that will have a subscription fee?
Which games are going to “kill” GW2?

No game really ever kills another, they do that to themselves.

Having said that, if EQN lives up to even a fraction of it’s potential, other mmos competing against it will have a hard time.

Nah. If it lives up to a fraction of its potential, no matter how good it is, people will be disappointed, and feel disenfranchised and leave.

Isn’t that what happened to this game?

As long as it is better than it’s competitors, living up to just a fraction of it’s potential (particularly when it comes from a historically renowed franchise) is more than enough.

You could argue that even if it lives up to just a fraction of it’s potential, it will still blow most other games out of the water, including this one. For all the hype this game had, the potential was/is just nowhere near that of EQN (although no doubt, someone will suggest otherwise).

Again, for all that, games kill themselves in the long run. You don’t get a silver bullet delivered by another mmo (or at least that is not usually the case) and ultimately, EQN might turn out to be crud.

Fenrir.3609:

Nage.1520:

Fenrir.3609:

Swoo.5079:

Clexzor.6351:

This game need an expansion 3-6 months ago….the game is coming to and end….as soon you will have some competition that will pretty much kill this game except for the hardcore folks who will stick around.

By competition you mean games that will have a subscription fee?
Which games are going to “kill” GW2?

No game really ever kills another, they do that to themselves.

Having said that, if EQN lives up to even a fraction of it’s potential, other mmos competing against it will have a hard time.

Nah. If it lives up to a fraction of its potential, no matter how good it is, people will be disappointed, and feel disenfranchised and leave.

Isn’t that what happened to this game?

As long as it is better than it’s competitors, living up to just a fraction of it’s potential (particularly when it comes from a historically renowed franchise) is more than enough.

You could argue that even if it lives up to just a fraction of it’s potential, it will still blow most other games out of the water, including this one. For all the hype this game had, the potential was/is just nowhere near that of EQN.

Again, for all that, games kill themselves in the long run. You don’t get a silver bullet delivered by another mmo (or at least that is not usually the case) and ultimately, EQN might turn out to be crud.

I’m definitely not sure I agree with this. I don’t think EQN has more potential than this game. I think the game has equal potential. That is to say, everything has great potential on paper.

But that game, when it comes out, will be a new game. New games are often notoriously buggy. Guild Wars 2, by then, will have probably another year to fix things up, come out with new things… and you know…it’s still free to play and people who’ve invested time and energy in an MMO aren’t necessarily interested in starting over elsewhere.

I’ve seen pretty much everything there is to see about EQN, and on paper it looks really good. But it doesn’t look better on paper than Guild Wars 2 did at the same point in development.

Anyway, I still bought into the EQ Landmark alpha to play around. But I’m fully aware that when a game is a year out, anything I think about it is probably wrong. lol

emikochan.8504:

5 races instead of 1 definitely makes a difference to the amount of new armours.

Sylvari/human/norn armors are pretty much the same (only a different size for norn).
The only races where the armor looks different is for Asura and Charr.
And Asura only use the male models, and most charr armors look horrible and are plagued by clipping issues. Because they literally took armor that was designed for a humanoid body, and slapped it on the charr body.

emikochan.8504:

Since if you multiply the amount of new armours by the races you end up with a similar amount of total work done.

I’m sorry, but no. Just because gw2 has more of the same armors available to multiple races does not mean the game has more content overall.

Nage.1520:

I’m definitely not sure I agree with this. I don’t think EQN has more potential than this game. I think the game has equal potential. That is to say, everything has great potential on paper.

But that game, when it comes out, will be a new game. New games are often notoriously buggy. Guild Wars 2, by then, will have probably another year to fix things up, come out with new things… and you know…it’s still free to play and people who’ve invested time and energy in an MMO aren’t necessarily interested in starting over elsewhere.

I’ve seen pretty much everything there is to see about EQN, and on paper it looks really good. But it doesn’t look better on paper than Guild Wars 2 did at the same point in development.

Anyway, I still bought into the EQ Landmark alpha to play around. But I’m fully aware that when a game is a year out, anything I think about it is probably wrong. lol

It looks vastly superior on paper imo (especially when you factor in Landmark) to anything this game has touted, the fact it is sandbox/sandbox hybrid alone means it potential upside if done right is waaaaay above a themepark like this one. A sandbox/hybrid can show what “dynamic content” really means.

Maybe this game will have awesome content, balance and general updates by then, I can’t say anything I’ve seen thus far has convinced me that will be the case mind you, but that is ofc, just personal opinion. If it does have, well all the better for it and I certainly hope that does prove to be the case (i’ll play both).

Again for all that, I did state that no game really kills another. EQN will not kill GW2 or any other game, they will do that to themselves (over who knows how long a time). I also stated that EQN might indeed turn out to be crud.

And I agree, if it is still free, people will still continue to play this regardless, some will simply love the game no doubt (or as you say, not want to “start again”). Others will play it and other titles as well.

Nageth.5648:

But seriously, this isn’t a content issue. This is more of a delivery issue it seems.

If you would be so kind to provide a summary of the permanent content additions between Jan’13 and Jan’14?

Going from memory the list is woefully short for a whole year but maybe you have a different view.

Look, it doesn’t matter whether it has a subscription or not- that’s completely irrelevant. It’s still a persistent MMO, which means that it needs to be continually growing and being polished to stay appealing to players.

Anet has severely over-focused on their LW concept, which frankly isn’t very good because there’s only so much you can do with it in a game that wasn’t designed as a sandbox. The “LW” is really nothing other than wasting massive amounts of development resources on temporary content, which over the long term does much more harm to the game than good.

They also don’t seem to do too well with balance. Not only are changes and updates extremely slow to come, but they are also usually very microscopic, with seeminly no attention paid to big picture balance issues like the huge gaps in efficacy between different #1 skills, which has huge implications in PvE where sustained DPS is king.

The simple fact is that their myopia combined with an apparent overall lack of direction with both the story and the game’s various systems has led to both the quality and quantity of new content and balance updates being consistently below par since launch, which has helped drive players away from the game in droves. The team’s presence on the boards is also very lackluster, helping fuel player frustration.

The recent CDI topics and the admission that the LW isn’t really working (although Colin’s rationalization of why was hysterically off the mark) are a step in the right direction, but they still need to be a lot more involved in general than they ever are.

I agree ^. Though Colin did say that if their proposed idea for Season 2 LW doesn’t work they’re going to scrap it altogether and figure out something else that will work.

However, I fear that even if it’s a colossal failure, they may live in denial and say it worked great and keep doing it. A number of things can happen.

Let’s not even get started on the whole “90% of any given update is gem store” crap.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Zypher.7609:

stale.9785:

Windu, I like you dude. That’s a breakdown that makes it black and white.

Not as black and white as these are different games.

Completely irrelevant.
Even if the games were completely different and had no correlation with eachother whatsoever (which is not the case), the expansion model is still vastly superior, which is what this argument is about.

Love how they use that excuse. STO is a scifi based game and does ground events WAY better than GW2 they are in different genres but it’s still the same basics for everything same behind the scenes rules of numbers and event handling.

It’s amazing to me that people don’t see this. Even some soon to be B2P games that are FPS will have better event handling/rewards. Themepark sandbox FPS vs RPG doesn’t matter under the hood it’s the same basic set of rules that they should be using same ui elements which should be standard by now. Like the map/minimap showing of where other players are running around/grouped. Something so fundamental shouldn’t be just left out just because they ran out of time when the game launched.

And then there’s the whole expansion pack worth of updates that F2P games are putting out for free. no DLC no nothing.

tigirius.9014:

That’s no longer a valid excuse when older titles like LOTRO and STO continue to add free permanent content in expansion like patches every year sometimes twice a year. They are just as F2P as GW2 is the difference is they haven’t given up on improving and they haven’t thrown out useless temporary content that goes away after the 3rd month to keep people playing.

I’m sorry but huuuuuge LOL at you using Lotro as an example. Man, how that game has crumbled. But you’re absolutely completely wrong about it adding free content. You cannot access the new content in the form of expansions as those are paid. You must buy the expansion, even if you sub. They’re also now gating the epic quests behind the expansion as well. And new, stand-alone regions are only “free” if you sub or have a lifetime account. So very sorry, but what horrible and downright wrong example.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

emikochan.8504:

5 races instead of 1 definitely makes a difference to the amount of new armours.

Sylvari/human/norn armors are pretty much the same (only a different size for norn).
The only races where the armor looks different is for Asura and Charr.
And Asura only use the male models, and most charr armors look horrible and are plagued by clipping issues. Because they literally took armor that was designed for a humanoid body, and slapped it on the charr body.

emikochan.8504:

Since if you multiply the amount of new armours by the races you end up with a similar amount of total work done.

I’m sorry, but no. Just because gw2 has more of the same armors available to multiple races does not mean the game has more content overall.

It doesn’t mean it has less content either.

The only thing PvE wise that GW1 has that GW2 doesn’t is the Missions. Personal Story is superior to primary quests but it is inferior to Missions.

Secondary quests are completely blown out by Dynamic Events.

GW2 zones not only are way bigger than GW1 zones, they also have much more content and they have a Z-axis.

Skill wise, GW1 has a greater number but they aren’t more diverse than GW2 skills, that have multiple uses.

You had GW1 skills like “does +xx damage”. And then another that “does +xx damage” but instead of costing energy cost adrenaline.

Or “heal xx” and then another that “heal yy” where yy<<xx but cast faster and recharge faster.

It took years for some skills to actually be useful and considered in builds.

Traits is way more complex than attributes.

During a map you will have way more skills to use with swap weapon in GW2 than in GW1.

Etc, etc.

Could GW2 have an expansion by now?
Sure.

Does the Living Story prevents an expansion or divert resources from an expansion?
No.

The Living Story is paid by microtransactions. An expansion is an Investment by NCSoft.

with LS season one complete….I seriously pray it does not get renewed for a season 2…

I would rather 100% of the resources get allocated to developing something along the lines of xpac content (new skills/race/proffession/dungs,etc you get the picture)

In all honesty, once I have majority of the LS achievement and anything else thats cool (for instance the backpeice of this LA attack that requires like 800 blade shards) im never going to that content again.

The one exception was twisted marionette… I throughly enjoyed it and i loved the amount of loot those chests gave me so ofc I kept going back for more… If there are more LS events just like twisted marionette im OK with it, but tbh, the majority of the LS is absolutely dull and really no TRUE MMO gamers gives a kitten about it the story , its an absolute farce and I believe it was a failed experiment for the most part

LS imo should be done away with… I don’t want to do this again for another year and i would rather the micro transaction money go towards FUN PERMANENT CONTENT instead of this lazy excuse of what you call “content”.

Since the release of Gw2, there has been ONE fractals update…. ONE!!..
ONE new endgame zone (southsun) which is absolutely dead until restart when we go for karka queen…hardly any real changes to dungs…. hardly ANY new skills (in honesty, i’d rather them not introduce new skills because anet has proven to me they have no clue on how to balance skills)… there have been nerfs left and right instead of buffing everything to make it viable (if every trait/weapon skill had viablity across the board, think of how diverse everything would be… instead the only class with viable skills/traits ACROSS ALL BOARDS is warrior and to a lesser extent, guardian)…

Outside of sPVP/dungs(inc frac)/alt levling , everything in this game is a snooze fest zerg

All i see now are champ trains….no one cares about doing the hundreds of events going on in different zones unless they are lvling a new character…. people rarely do dungs anymore…they just made FoTM a pain in the kitten and the time required for doing a full FoTM run is absolutely not worth it with the rewards you get…

WvW/sPvP/Champ train is the current state of endgame….. cmon, you could do better anet…

if this current state remains the same, gl hf with gw2 guys, i guarantee you majority of the population will leave for the upcoming new MMOs (wildstar, EQN, etc)

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

For people who actually think LS is better, lets go through this for a minute.

And all of this PERMANENT!
If LS did this each month, then it would be awesome. So even if the LS delivery method is better, it’s still inferior to the expansion model.

And if I have to wait longer to get this level of content, so be it! Making quality content takes time, if you are going to roll out content on a bi weekly basis you will never recieve the same amount of quality. And it shows.

I think you might have missed a few things that LS released..
starting with the permanent stuff

and the temporary stuff wasnt a pitance either

much more content than EOTN.. granted they got 6 months more time to work on it then they had on EOTN but still…

Galen Grey.4709:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

For people who actually think LS is better, lets go through this for a minute.

And all of this PERMANENT!
If LS did this each month, then it would be awesome. So even if the LS delivery method is better, it’s still inferior to the expansion model.

And if I have to wait longer to get this level of content, so be it! Making quality content takes time, if you are going to roll out content on a bi weekly basis you will never recieve the same amount of quality. And it shows.

I think you might have missed a few things that LS released..
starting with the permanent stuff

"permanent content"

hide spoiler

12 fractals
2 mini dungeon
4x jumping puzzle
7x armor sets
2 new condition
4 new pvp map
1 new zone
1 new town
7x weapon sets
some pieces of armor skins but not whole sets
some weapon skins but not whole sets
7 new enemies
20 new crafting materials
481 new crafting recipes
1 new faction
7 new mini game
3x world events (skritt thief, modus etc..)
3x new runes / sigils
4 new currency
1 new WvW event
2x New achievements revamp
3 zone revamps
6x types of guild missions
18 – Bounties
180 – treks
8 – rushes
6 – challenges
3 – puzzles
1 revamped dungeon
WvW progression
Leaderboards
Custom Arenas
Tournaments
WvW Traps
2 new world boss
many new dynamic events (new permanent events introduced during halloween 2012, secrets of southsun, tower of nightmares)
Wallet system
9 new skills
Magic find revamp
1 revamped boss fight
1 new dungeon path
ton of new minis
many new dyes
some finishers
some new tonics
1 new WvW zone
a lot of new characters. Canach, evon, ellen, magnus, Noll,Blingg,kasmer, Marjory, rox, Marcello, what-ever-tron, etc.. a ton of support characters, refugees, cragstead inhabitants

and the temporary stuff wasnt a pitance either

"temporary"

hide spoiler

7x mini games
5 new mini zone
1x invasion
1 world boss
3x dungeons
2x mini dungeon
1x dungeon like multi boss fight (whatever guantlet would qualify for)
1 jumping puzzle
2 living story instances
a bunch of dynamic events with each LS release related to that LS
2x SAB worlds 6 zones

much more content than EOTN.. granted they got 6 months more time to work on it then they had on EOTN but still…

Sure if you add all the smaller stuff, completely disect the content and list things twice (for example: 6 guild mission types, then go ahead to list the guild missions seperately, or 1 zone, 1 town instead of 2 zones) it’s not that hard to make a list that long. Besides, not all of that content (like the account wallet) is related to Living Story.

If I decide to Disect the content of one of the Gw1 expansions I can make a list around 4 times that size. (which I am not going to do since it takes forever, if you can’t take my word for it, bite me)

Though to be fair, LS did indeed release a bunch of permanent content I acknowledge that.

darkace.8925:

Theme parks live and die by the excitement their attractions provide prospective customers. You haven’t installed a new attraction in quite some time. We’ve rode all the rides in your park. We’ve seen all the attractions in your park. We’re getting bored with the same-old, same-old.

There’s only so many times you, the park owners, can paint the horses on the carousel or change the name of the Cyclone to the Hurricane or the Tornado or the Typhoon before the we, the patrons, grow bored and start looking for entertainment elsewhere. Sure, the band you’ve hired to provide entertainment every Saturday night changes a couple of times a month, and you’re constantly rolling out new merchandise in the kiosks.

But we want…we’re begging for new attractions. As someone who loves your park but finds myself growing increasingly bored with the attractions I’ve already rode a hundred times, I’m pleading with you to give me something new and exciting. Your competitors will soon cut ribbons on their own parks. And while I personally have no interest at all in those parks, there might be a more than a few of your customers who will leave when tempted by something new.

Signed, an increasingly restless fan.

Well said. I agree.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Galen Grey.4709:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

For people who actually think LS is better, lets go through this for a minute.

And all of this PERMANENT!
If LS did this each month, then it would be awesome. So even if the LS delivery method is better, it’s still inferior to the expansion model.

And if I have to wait longer to get this level of content, so be it! Making quality content takes time, if you are going to roll out content on a bi weekly basis you will never recieve the same amount of quality. And it shows.

I think you might have missed a few things that LS released..
starting with the permanent stuff

"permanent content"

hide spoiler

12 fractals
2 mini dungeon
4x jumping puzzle
7x armor sets
2 new condition
4 new pvp map
1 new zone
1 new town
7x weapon sets
some pieces of armor skins but not whole sets
some weapon skins but not whole sets
7 new enemies
20 new crafting materials
481 new crafting recipes
1 new faction
7 new mini game
3x world events (skritt thief, modus etc..)
3x new runes / sigils
4 new currency
1 new WvW event
2x New achievements revamp
3 zone revamps
6x types of guild missions
18 – Bounties
180 – treks
8 – rushes
6 – challenges
3 – puzzles
1 revamped dungeon
WvW progression
Leaderboards
Custom Arenas
Tournaments
WvW Traps
2 new world boss
many new dynamic events (new permanent events introduced during halloween 2012, secrets of southsun, tower of nightmares)
Wallet system
9 new skills
Magic find revamp
1 revamped boss fight
1 new dungeon path
ton of new minis
many new dyes
some finishers
some new tonics
1 new WvW zone
a lot of new characters. Canach, evon, ellen, magnus, Noll,Blingg,kasmer, Marjory, rox, Marcello, what-ever-tron, etc.. a ton of support characters, refugees, cragstead inhabitants

and the temporary stuff wasnt a pitance either

"temporary"

hide spoiler

7x mini games
5 new mini zone
1x invasion
1 world boss
3x dungeons
2x mini dungeon
1x dungeon like multi boss fight (whatever guantlet would qualify for)
1 jumping puzzle
2 living story instances
a bunch of dynamic events with each LS release related to that LS
2x SAB worlds 6 zones

much more content than EOTN.. granted they got 6 months more time to work on it then they had on EOTN but still…

Sure if you add all the smaller stuff, completely disect the content and list things twice (for example: 6 guild mission types, then go ahead to list the guild missions seperately, or 1 zone, 1 town instead of 2 zones) it’s not that hard to make a list that long. Besides, not all of that content (like the account wallet) is related to Living Story.

If I decide to Disect the content of one of the Gw1 expansions I can make a list around 4 times that size. (which I am not going to do since it takes forever, if you can’t take my word for it, bite me)

Though to be fair, LS did indeed release a bunch of permanent content I acknowledge that.

I had to log in just to point out your list is hilarious. it is obvious over exaggeration of what they have added, just to pick out some of the fillers you added into your list:

3x world events (skritt thief, modus etc..) —-———- CHASE after a rat for less than 15sec? LOL

3x new runes / sigils —-————— THREE? LOL

4 new currency —-——————-CONTENT? LOL

2x New achievements revamp —-———— CONTENT?

I am pretty sure all of these should just be one liner under guild mission. —-——— way to make the list longer.
(6x types of guild missions, 18 – Bounties, 180 – treks, 8 – rushes, 6 – challenges,3 – puzzles, 1 revamped dungeon)

WvW progression —-———- We had them already?
WvW Traps —-——— LOl

Wallet system —-———okie, so much content here.
9 new skills —-————Wow, NINE in 1 year!!
Magic find revamp —-———- GREAT CONTENT!
1 revamped boss fight —-———-LOL
ton of new minis————— LOL, so content
some finishers —-—————- did you say, GEM STORE?
some new tonics —-——- LOL, so content

Awsome post OP. +1.

By new attractions…zones (and reasons to go into), new dungeons, new world bosses, new events.

Dee Jay.2460:

I agree that the added content is lacking some real depth.

The Living Story stuff is nice and all, but ultimately superficial. The 4 core pillars of every-day GW2 game-play are still.

• Dungeons (incl. Fractals)
• PvE boss events
• sPvP
• WvW

And very little has truly changes about that.

Even when there are changes made, these changes often don’t account for much in the long-term. Look at WvW for example. It really isn’t much better now than it was at release.

Agreed about the 4 pillars.

-No new dungeons aside from fractals to which you need AR after a certain point hence the necessity of ascended gear if you want to much further than lvl 10.
-No new world bosses. No new events other than LS events and aside from the ninja addition of events they told no one about a year ago(I don’t remember hearing them say they are adding more). No new zones aside from Southsun which is largely abandoned.
-sPvP I cannot comment on.
-WvW got a nice change with the WxP system and the season(even though not needed). Other than that, its the same.

Burn through living story in a few hours, grind the open world zerg for a few more hours for coin and material, then back to the four pillars whicih are largely untouched.

I really feel that all of their time is vested into living story and the 2 week update.

stale.9785:

Zypher, if there was anything to the biweekly update – you know, actual content, I’d be thrilled. There’s not.

We have no new builds, because there’s been almost no new skills (two new skills per profession, to be precise – one being the universal heal) There have been no new zones since Southsun. The story is horrible, just bad, and doesn’t really connect with the lore of the GW universe.

So, our biweekly content has brought, for me, nothing at all of value. Just a way to farm AP.

If they’d been adding dungeons with each LS update, and a few new skills per profession, it’d be a different story. As it is, for me, it’s a whole world of fail.

Your name is so appropriate

Hell Avenger.7021:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Galen Grey.4709:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

For people who actually think LS is better, lets go through this for a minute.

And all of this PERMANENT!
If LS did this each month, then it would be awesome. So even if the LS delivery method is better, it’s still inferior to the expansion model.

And if I have to wait longer to get this level of content, so be it! Making quality content takes time, if you are going to roll out content on a bi weekly basis you will never recieve the same amount of quality. And it shows.

I think you might have missed a few things that LS released..
starting with the permanent stuff

"permanent content"

hide spoiler

12 fractals
2 mini dungeon
4x jumping puzzle
7x armor sets
2 new condition
4 new pvp map
1 new zone
1 new town
7x weapon sets
some pieces of armor skins but not whole sets
some weapon skins but not whole sets
7 new enemies
20 new crafting materials
481 new crafting recipes
1 new faction
7 new mini game
3x world events (skritt thief, modus etc..)
3x new runes / sigils
4 new currency
1 new WvW event
2x New achievements revamp
3 zone revamps
6x types of guild missions
18 – Bounties
180 – treks
8 – rushes
6 – challenges
3 – puzzles
1 revamped dungeon
WvW progression
Leaderboards
Custom Arenas
Tournaments
WvW Traps
2 new world boss
many new dynamic events (new permanent events introduced during halloween 2012, secrets of southsun, tower of nightmares)
Wallet system
9 new skills
Magic find revamp
1 revamped boss fight
1 new dungeon path
ton of new minis
many new dyes
some finishers
some new tonics
1 new WvW zone
a lot of new characters. Canach, evon, ellen, magnus, Noll,Blingg,kasmer, Marjory, rox, Marcello, what-ever-tron, etc.. a ton of support characters, refugees, cragstead inhabitants

and the temporary stuff wasnt a pitance either

"temporary"

hide spoiler

7x mini games
5 new mini zone
1x invasion
1 world boss
3x dungeons
2x mini dungeon
1x dungeon like multi boss fight (whatever guantlet would qualify for)
1 jumping puzzle
2 living story instances
a bunch of dynamic events with each LS release related to that LS
2x SAB worlds 6 zones

much more content than EOTN.. granted they got 6 months more time to work on it then they had on EOTN but still…

Sure if you add all the smaller stuff, completely disect the content and list things twice (for example: 6 guild mission types, then go ahead to list the guild missions seperately, or 1 zone, 1 town instead of 2 zones) it’s not that hard to make a list that long. Besides, not all of that content (like the account wallet) is related to Living Story.

If I decide to Disect the content of one of the Gw1 expansions I can make a list around 4 times that size. (which I am not going to do since it takes forever, if you can’t take my word for it, bite me)

Though to be fair, LS did indeed release a bunch of permanent content I acknowledge that.

I had to log in just to point out your list is hilarious. it is obvious over exaggeration of what they have added, just to pick out some of the fillers you added into your list:

3x world events (skritt thief, modus etc..) —-———- CHASE after a rat for less than 15sec? LOL

3x new runes / sigils —-————— THREE? LOL

4 new currency —-——————-CONTENT? LOL

2x New achievements revamp —-———— CONTENT?

I am pretty sure all of these should just be one liner under guild mission. —-——— way to make the list longer.
(6x types of guild missions, 18 – Bounties, 180 – treks, 8 – rushes, 6 – challenges,3 – puzzles, 1 revamped dungeon)

WvW progression —-———- We had them already?
WvW Traps —-——— LOl

Wallet system —-———okie, so much content here.
9 new skills —-————Wow, NINE in 1 year!!
Magic find revamp —-———- GREAT CONTENT!
1 revamped boss fight —-———-LOL
ton of new minis————— LOL, so content
some finishers —-—————- did you say, GEM STORE?
some new tonics —-——- LOL, so content

I agree with Hell Avenger and Windu, content is too much of a broad term anyway. You could technically call a new tonic for example new content because it is … something. I think it needs a new approach, instead of asking for new content or just plain o’l content how about asking for Better Content, the kind of stuff that can only be brought in through an expansion or campaign. Other things like an account wallet is not content at all, that’s a Quality of Life update, it’s a game interface update. That doesn’t impact the character you are playing with or their environment.

stale.9785:

To clarify from my last post. In GW1, at 18 months, we had:

Prophecies
-they added Sorrows Furnace
-they added FoW and UW

Factions was out
- Hundred of new skills, complete new continents, two new professions

Nightfall was only 2-3 months away.
- hundreds of more skills, another whole continent, two new professions.

Compared to GW2, where after 18 months we have.

- Fractals
- two new skills
- one new dungeon path, but they removed the old one.
- nothing else that’s been permanent.

This is the complaint.

gee, what happened here? incompetency?

Does anybody else think it’s possible that they have a huge content addition sitting around and waiting for the releases of TESO/Wildstart/EQN and they’ll drop it at the same time to keep people around?

I get the feeling that they’re building something and just not talking about it.

timmyf.1490:

Does anybody else think it’s possible that they have a huge content addition sitting around and waiting for the releases of TESO/Wildstart/EQN and they’ll drop it at the same time to keep people around?

I get the feeling that they’re building something and just not talking about it.

That’s exactly what wow does, and it works. Expansion release around other prominent titles is like using heat to cook. No heat, you can’t cook, period.

Asumita.2174:

timmyf.1490:

Does anybody else think it’s possible that they have a huge content addition sitting around and waiting for the releases of TESO/Wildstart/EQN and they’ll drop it at the same time to keep people around?

I get the feeling that they’re building something and just not talking about it.

That’s exactly what wow does, and it works. Expansion release around other prominent titles is like using heat to cook. No heat, you can’t cook, period.

It’s all a matter of when. Mists of Pandaria hit not long after GW2 launched right? And it was announced a good bit before that. If they are wanting something to hit when these new MMOs do, then they need to start announcing. And as far as Wildstar goes…isn’t it published by NCSoft? They aren’t going to let GW2 take away any of it’s glory.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Swoo.5079:

GW2 is way bigger than Prophecies was at release.

Interestingly people like to throw around tons of numbers
Those are called facts, it’s what people tend to use in arguments
but they don’t like to throw number of professions and number of races.
gw1 had more professions… not at release no, but gw2 is not at release, it’s been out for over a year
They also don’t like to talk about crafting.
Because it’s boring as kitten
GW1 added very few in terms of free content.
And that’s why the content added in gw1 vastly superior. Free =/= better
People just don’t understand that GW1 basically had a tiny Live Team while GW2 has a decently sized live team.
Indeed, gw2 has a lot more developers working on it. So why are we getting less?

Guild Wars 2 at release has indeed more content than Guild Wars 1 at release. But in the end, gw1 got tons more content and guild wars 2 is not at release anymore.

Guild wars 2 was bigger than guild wars 1 after all it’s updates. Unless you are one those people that think Anet should have release the game with half the map and then added more maps as new “content”.

The major difference between gw1 and gw2 is after prophecies, all anet had to do was follow a formula for new content. Guild wars 2 however suffers from trying to do something different. I would rather have something new than a similar hey here is a new map go do something.

silvermember.8941:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Swoo.5079:

GW2 is way bigger than Prophecies was at release.

Interestingly people like to throw around tons of numbers
Those are called facts, it’s what people tend to use in arguments
but they don’t like to throw number of professions and number of races.
gw1 had more professions… not at release no, but gw2 is not at release, it’s been out for over a year
They also don’t like to talk about crafting.
Because it’s boring as kitten
GW1 added very few in terms of free content.
And that’s why the content added in gw1 vastly superior. Free =/= better
People just don’t understand that GW1 basically had a tiny Live Team while GW2 has a decently sized live team.
Indeed, gw2 has a lot more developers working on it. So why are we getting less?

Guild Wars 2 at release has indeed more content than Guild Wars 1 at release. But in the end, gw1 got tons more content and guild wars 2 is not at release anymore.

Guild wars 2 was bigger than guild wars 1 after all it’s updates.

You are comparing GW2 to GW Prophecies right? I would hope so.

Nat.4029:

Asumita.2174:

timmyf.1490:

Does anybody else think it’s possible that they have a huge content addition sitting around and waiting for the releases of TESO/Wildstart/EQN and they’ll drop it at the same time to keep people around?

I get the feeling that they’re building something and just not talking about it.

That’s exactly what wow does, and it works. Expansion release around other prominent titles is like using heat to cook. No heat, you can’t cook, period.

It’s all a matter of when. Mists of Pandaria hit not long after GW2 launched right? And it was announced a good bit before that. If they are wanting something to hit when these new MMOs do, then they need to start announcing. And as far as Wildstar goes…isn’t it published by NCSoft? They aren’t going to let GW2 take away any of it’s glory.

Yeah, so this is a really good point. I would say this: boxed expansions require substantial notification and lead time because you have to get the boxes to retailers. Gem Store expansions would not require much lead time. Free expansions would not require much lead time.

Can you imagine if, the week before Wildstar and ESO hit, ArenaNet says “Boom. Travel to Elona unlocked next week. Enjoy.”