Guild Wars 2

as much as i love the appearance of asura- they’re so small and cute! i recently had to delete my warrior, as she periodically would say something that i cannot tolerate hearing.
i’m disabled, and it’s hard enough to deal with the lore of asura, but hearing it from the mouth of a toon i’d made with intention to headcanon her as being /against/ all that ableist nonsense…
the threat i’m talking about is “you’re dumb, you’ll die and leave a dumb corpse”. now the first time i heard her say this was after leveling her most of the way to 40, and i made the decision to just, finish leveling her to 80 then reroll as not-asura. but then i heard her say it again at level 68ish, and it caused me to have a minor panic attack.
i want this game to be, if not a safe place, at least not a place where i have to hear a death threat against people like me, from my own character. please consider removing this particular shout effect.
(this is my first post on these forums, apologies if this is the wrong category, i tried to put it in the right place.)

I don’t really see how that relates to any disabled individual, so much as it’s a general insult. “You’re dumb, you’ll die and leave a dumb corpse”. It doesn’t target anyone disabled, in a more modern translation it would be “You are so stupid that when you die your corpse will still be stupid.”. I fail to see how that specifically targets anyone with a disability that could be labeled as stupid.

welcome to 2015 where everyone is offended by the slightest little thing.
le sigh

Asurans pretty much think that every other race is dumb, that’s just how they are. It’s in their lore and their culture which happens to be a very large part of the game. I highly doubt it was actually meant to offend anyone as was meant as more of a lore/immersion thing.

Really…?

Dude – I’m all for having things an non-offensive as possible, but Asurans are essentially Spartans, but for cognition.

They don’t tolerate stupidity. To be dumb is the ultimate low for Asurans (rather like being weak for the Charr). To be offended that a character has a dialogue line in keeping with a basic tenet of the race is… well, dumb.

Boy (or maybe girl) I think ya gotta get yo self some thicker skin there.

I’m pretty sure that line was put in to go with the typical Asura way of thinking/behaving and not to insult disabled people. And Asura, as a rule, are pretty acerbic and condescending towards every other race, especially when it comes to intelligence. And the line is purely smack talk against the mob the character is attacking; it’s not meant as an insult to people with disabilities as a whole.

If the Asura way of thinking and speaking offends you so, then you should definitely consider playing a different race for your own psychological well being. However, Anet should not feel like they have to change that line because of this.

She is killing things in the game. What did you expect he to say?
You cant compare her to real life. do you kill people in real life? didnt think so.

Knighthonor.4061:

She is killing things in the game. What did you expect he to say?
You cant compare her to real life. do you kill people in real life? didnt think so.

^This. Cutting someone to pieces with a greatsword is fine but calling someone dumb is a problem apparantly lmao.

This is going to be one hairy topic…

Personally, I never made a connection to disability when hearing that line. Like Grand, stale and RoseOfGilead, I think it goes more along the lines of asura seeing any other species as intellectually inferior (just like the charr see themselves as the most technologically advanced species), with the added bonus of the individual in question being extra stupid for attacking my character.
Now one can read the asura’s arrogance as inherently ableist. Then I’m also ableist for thinking I’m smarter than a lot of people. But combined with asura lore, this attitude and the “threat” emote are an observation of the enemy’s inability to analyse a situation methodically and come to the right conclusions – the enemy failed to deduce that attacking me is not smart, and my toon merely states the consequences of this action. I would never dream of associating this with threatening someone with a mental disability.

Also, to those who talk about “getting a thicker skin” etc.: Congratulations, you skipped class the day they explained how emotions work. No-one is immune to this kind of thing. Everyone has some stuff that will always hurt them, we just have different ways to deal with it. OP sees this threat emote as hurtful. I disgaree with the observation that it’s inherently ableist because I see it in context of asura lore, but OP still has the right to feel this way, no matter what you or I think about the subject.
Whether Anet has an obligation to remove this line when most players don’t see it as problematic is debatable, though we can certainly talk about it.

ummm…..wut?

Not trying to be insensitive or anything but really?
Why not turn off the dialog volume?
Turn off your sound completely?
Not play Asura?
Not play the game if it contains elements that you find offensive?

It’s kind of like saying that Mcdonalds Big Macs made someone overweight, and because of that, Mcdonalds needs to get rid of the Big Mac.

Or going to an adult club and being offended that there are adult activities going on and requesting the place be closed, or those activities be removed.

In the end it’s a choice as to whether or not you (not anyone specifically, just you in the general sense) are offended. You find certain activies offensive? Don’t partake in those activities. Don’t make other people change what they are doing because you don’t happen to like it. That doesn’t promote anything but selfishness.

this thread is a mess. i dont know what i expected

I just want to clarify this: All female asura say this, no matter the profession. It’s just a quote they say when they enter combat. Another one that the female asura say is “I majored in pain, with a minor in suffering” (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:Manifold/Player_character_quotes)

Either way, Grackle… of course, you’re offended by it (and nobody can say otherwise). But I think a lot of people would agree that it’s not something worth getting offended over. It wasn’t intended to be offensive or construded as such.

“Dumb” in this sense means stupid. In many other contexts it is used in such a way.

If you’re arguing that in this sense “dumb” is referring to the ability to not speak, my asura has used this quote against plenty of enemies that can speak.

SirWarriant is also correct- Asura look down on everybody. They believe that their intelligence is superior. It’s just a quirk of their race.

Here’s a solution for you: If you really don’t like the phrase (to the point it gives you a panic attack), you could obtain a Make Over Kit and change your gender from male to female. Male asura do not use this quote. Hope this helps

face….desk

For crying out loud, your character isn’t talking to you, personally. They aren’t even aiming it at disabled people. (Asura thing everyone not Asuran are stupid, cmon now)

CrimsonClouds thank you for clarifying- and your suggestion would probably be helpful but i have already deleted the toon.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

face….desk

For crying out loud, your character isn’t talking to you, personally. They aren’t even aiming it at disabled people. (Asura thing everyone not Asuran are stupid, cmon now)

Actually, Asurans think everyone, regardless of race/gender, are stupid/inferior/dumb.

And this i why cartoons are totally censored and fluff in comparison to the classics (pre milennium). Oversentive people. Totally stripped of all character.

i love how i’ve got all these abled people condescending at me, as though i don’t understand that “dumb” is not being used in the sense of “unable to speak” but in the sense of “stupid”. newsflash, intellectual and developmental disabilities get called “dumb” and “stupid” in real life, that is literally /why/ its awful to hear it in a game.

im also aware that asura culture is horrifically ableist and racist, that doesnt mean i should have to put up with My Individual Character saying things like that. i thought i could have an asura toon and just headcanon her as not wanting people like me dead. i was wrong, but i should have been correct; there’s no need for this particular voice clip.

this….this probably on of the stupidest posts i’ve read on this forum, hard not to believe that this isnt a troll post

I’m appalled at how insensitive you people are. OP said they had a minor panic attack over this, and you’re all brushing it off like it’s nothing. Shame on all of you! This is not how you talk to people with disabilities! I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled by something outside of your control. Maybe then you’ll understand why this is unacceptable.

grackle.8043:

i love how i’ve got all these abled people condescending at me, as though i don’t understand that “dumb” is not being used in the sense of “unable to speak” but in the sense of “stupid”. newsflash, intellectual and developmental disabilities get called “dumb” and “stupid” in real life, that is literally /why/ its awful to hear it in a game.

im also aware that asura culture is horrifically ableist and racist, that doesnt mean i should have to put up with My Individual Character saying things like that. i thought i could have an asura toon and just headcanon her as not wanting people like me dead. i was wrong, but i should have been correct; there’s no need for this particular voice clip.

You are reading far too much into the statement. The player character shouting this does not mean she has a vendetta against people with below average intelligence and thinks they should all die. She’s calling the mob she’s KILLING (who is also trying to kill her) dumb. She’s not calling its family dumb. She’s not calling every member of its race dumb. She’s calling the single mob dumb.

Plus, you just admitted that you know Asura are racist and pretty insensitive. I have to wonder why you would WANT to play a race like that. I mean, I play one (one asura out of my 12+ characters) because she amuses me at times, but I don’t care for the race as a whole; thus, I don’t play them often.

Welcome all to the new hypersensitive everything offends me Internet.

The Asura consider intelligence to be the greatest of virtues. So, calling someone stupid is the greatest insult any Asuran can use. This quote is right in line with Asuran Culture. Plenty of cultures in game are not exactly politically correct for a real life person to exhibit; I’m sure we can all agree that if we all behaved as if we lived in Charr’s military meritocracy, we would be pretty terrible people, if not thrown in jail outright. The game having all these fantasy cultures that are so different from our own real life culture is part of what makes it so entertaining: it’s fantasy. If A-net tries to make everything our characters say and do be in strict line with our modern interpretation of political-correctness, it would make the game far less colorful and pretty terrible in general.

Andred.1087:

I’m appalled at how insensitive you people are. OP said they had a minor panic attack over this, and you’re all brushing it off like it’s nothing. Shame on all of you! This is not how you talk to people with disabilities! I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled by something outside of your control. Maybe then you’ll understand why this is unacceptable.

thank you so much for this comment! it’s like a breath of fresh air. finally someone who understands!

Andred.1087:

I’m appalled at how insensitive you people are. OP said they had a minor panic attack over this, and you’re all brushing it off like it’s nothing. Shame on all of you! This is not how you talk to people with disabilities! I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled by something outside of your control. Maybe then you’ll understand why this is unacceptable.

People are just blown away someone had a panic attack over something so incomprehensibly insignificant. Not to mention misguided, as the qoute in particular doesn’t even refer to disabled people. You say the problem is people being insensitive, I say the problem is people being hypersensitive.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Andred.1087:

I’m appalled at how insensitive you people are. OP said they had a minor panic attack over this, and you’re all brushing it off like it’s nothing. Shame on all of you! This is not how you talk to people with disabilities! I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled by something outside of your control. Maybe then you’ll understand why this is unacceptable.

People are just blown away someone had a panic attack over something so incomprehensibly insignificant. You say the problem is people being insensitive, I say the problem is people being hypersensitive.

The PROBLEM is people like YOU not understanding that disabilities are a REAL STRUGGLE and you can’t just blow them off because YOU’RE not affected by them!

You probably never learned that, because our society is still heavily stacked against those with disabilities, but that’s something that has to change. Have you ever considered that the reason the world seems hypersensitive now is that it was unacceptably insensitive before?

Andred.1087:

I’m appalled at how insensitive you people are. OP said they had a minor panic attack over this.

Yes, a panic attack over the word ‘dumb’. That’s honestly being wayyyy too sensitive.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Andred.1087:

I’m appalled at how insensitive you people are. OP said they had a minor panic attack over this, and you’re all brushing it off like it’s nothing. Shame on all of you! This is not how you talk to people with disabilities! I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled by something outside of your control. Maybe then you’ll understand why this is unacceptable.

People are just blown away someone had a panic attack over something so incomprehensibly insignificant. Not to mention misguided, as the qoute in particular doesn’t even refer to disabled people. You say the problem is people being insensitive, I say the problem is people being hypersensitive.

I’m pretty sure Andred was being sarcastic

If a real world race treated others the way the Asura treat others in this game, they’d be extinct. Which, to me, sounds like a great idea for Asura in game.

Andred.1087:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Andred.1087:

I’m appalled at how insensitive you people are. OP said they had a minor panic attack over this, and you’re all brushing it off like it’s nothing. Shame on all of you! This is not how you talk to people with disabilities! I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled by something outside of your control. Maybe then you’ll understand why this is unacceptable.

People are just blown away someone had a panic attack over something so incomprehensibly insignificant. You say the problem is people being insensitive, I say the problem is people being hypersensitive.

The PROBLEM is people like YOU not understanding that disabilities are REAL and you can’t just blow them off because YOU’RE not affected by them!

The PROBLEM is people like YOU making huge problems out of nothing.

As someone with a disability… I think it’s hilarious. How is it offensive? It’s something an Asura would say. It’s not aimed at disabled people. Deleting a character over it is a bit of an overreaction, too – why not change the gender if it bothered you so much? I don’t think male Asura have that line.

Andred.1087:

I’m appalled at how insensitive you people are. OP said they had a minor panic attack over this, and you’re all brushing it off like it’s nothing. Shame on all of you! This is not how you talk to people with disabilities! I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled by something outside of your control. Maybe then you’ll understand why this is unacceptable.

Really? You think its legitimately ok that someone had a panic attack over the use of the word dumb? You think it’s legitimately ok that people need to be babied?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against being polite, however, I’m completely against the PC bullcrap. We need to get away from the mentality that people need to be molly coddled. It tends to turn out badly, just take a look at the world around you.

As for how I treat disabled people… I treat them just like everybody else, because that’s what they are. The last time I checked, most disabled individuals did not welcome being treated like they were different. So yeah, I have no issue telling the OP they are over reacting, the same way I’d tell anybody else.

Edit: Oh and as for the assumption for not understanding what it’s like… my son’s Autistic, so I very much know what it’s like. At 14, he absolutely hates it when people treat him differently because of his “condition.” We’ve gone so far as to change schools (at his request) so he could get away from teachers in our home district that pitied him and treated him like glass because he wasn’t “normal.” So yeah, you know where you can stick your assumptions.

Asura: from the wiki
“These alchemagical inventors may be short in stature, but they’re intellectual giants. Among the asura, it’s not the strong who survive, but the clever. Other races believe they should rule by virtue of their power and strength, but they’re deluding themselves. In due time, all will serve the asura.”

Culture
“The asura value intelligence and intellectual superiority over all other attributes. Individual asura will dedicate an entire lifespan to building a portfolio of successful projects or becoming the foremost expert of some tiny aspect of the arcane. They constantly seek to prove their own intellectual superiority, and by extension the superiority of the asura race. This typically results in asura being arrogant to the point of rudeness towards others, especially towards non-asura races. The asura have quickly established their intellectual and magical superiority over the other races and view them as useful primarily for heavy lifting, taking risks, and asking stupid questions.”

The Asura have an intelligence fetish. They are smart, everyone else is a bookah.

Andred.1087:

I’m appalled at how insensitive you people are. OP said they had a minor panic attack over this, and you’re all brushing it off like it’s nothing. Shame on all of you! This is not how you talk to people with disabilities! I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled by something outside of your control. Maybe then you’ll understand why this is unacceptable.

How do you know we don’t already live with something beyond our control?
Or have to care for a loved one with something beyond their control, and we also are powerless to do anything about it?

It’s not insensitive to point out that the particular character the OP has chosen to play (and has since deleted) in-game is extremely racist and condencending toward anyone not of their race. It’s not insensitive to suggest that maybe there are other things worth getting worked up about, and that 1 line in a video game isn’t on that list.

What happened to the OP is real, no one is denying that, or trying to down play the significance of that event. However, in this age, it is more socially acceptable to make dramatic changes to perfectly reasonable and acceptable practices because a small minority of people decided they want to be offended by it. That to me is offensive. Why should I have to change my views, change my lifestyle to fit into someone elses ideals and views on how I should live? Why should I be tolerant of someone else, when they aren’t tolerent of me, and demand I change because of what I do is offensive?

Andred.1087:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Andred.1087:

I’m appalled at how insensitive you people are. OP said they had a minor panic attack over this, and you’re all brushing it off like it’s nothing. Shame on all of you! This is not how you talk to people with disabilities! I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled by something outside of your control. Maybe then you’ll understand why this is unacceptable.

People are just blown away someone had a panic attack over something so incomprehensibly insignificant. You say the problem is people being insensitive, I say the problem is people being hypersensitive.

The PROBLEM is people like YOU not understanding that disabilities are a REAL STRUGGLE and you can’t just blow them off because YOU’RE not affected by them!

You probably never learned that, because our society is still heavily stacked against those with disabilities, but that’s something that has to change. Have you ever considered that the reason the world seems hypersensitive now is that it was unacceptably insensitive before?

People have differing opinions.

This is exactly why the OP needs to toughen up, because that’s not going to change. (I wish them the best of luck, but really nothing I say will help them unless they help themselves by not letting others get to them).

There is no reason someone should have to cater to the needs or wants of any other person. You want to trash those who don’t cater to the needs of those who are disabled, that’s fine. Some people just live their lives and don’t really care. Then there are others who go as far as to trash the disabled. A nice pretty spectrum with hate on both sides, isn’t it beautiful? It’s like a sandwich made of indifference squeezed between two slices of assumed superiority.

Andred.1087:

I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled … this is unacceptable.

There it is folks! The mask slips!

Unless both of them are trolls working together. In which case, bravo!

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Andred.1087:

I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled … this is unacceptable.

There it is folks! The mask slips!

Unless both of them are trolls working together. In which case, bravo!

That has to be the case, no one can seriously be this hyper-sensitive

While I know there is a plethora of types of disabilities… isn’t our gw2 iconic disabled character (that a lot of disabled people were super happy to meet) an asura?!

I have an anxiety disorder and I know exactly what it is like to have panic attacks, especially for really silly reasons, so I sympathize OP. But I think a lot of the responses in this thread should be considered, particularly the ones regarding the context of the statement. I know you’ve already deleted your asura and you’re over that race, but I think asking for that line to be removed is a bit… much. If it is, where does it end with people becoming offended? We can all point at everything and think, “well gee, I’m religious and charr don’t worship gods and hate the very idea of them, let’s remove THAT!”

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Andred.1087:

I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled … this is unacceptable.

There it is folks! The mask slips!

Unless both of them are trolls working together. In which case, bravo!

Get over yourself. You might stand idly by while someone with a disability is grossly mistreated and abused in a public forum, but I won’t. This isn’t a kittening joke.

Unforgiven Azrael.6203:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Andred.1087:

I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled … this is unacceptable.

There it is folks! The mask slips!

Unless both of them are trolls working together. In which case, bravo!

That has to be the case, no one can seriously be this hyper-sensitive

I’d like to agree, some people really can be offended by anything

Andred.1087:

I’m appalled at how insensitive you people are. OP said they had a minor panic attack over this, and you’re all brushing it off like it’s nothing. Shame on all of you! This is not how you talk to people with disabilities! I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled by something outside of your control. Maybe then you’ll understand why this is unacceptable.

Its quite simple: the word dumb isnt all that offensive, even with mental disabilities in mind.

If somebody gets a panic attack at the word being dropped randomly, its clearly a very personal and psychological problem, but it has nothing to do with the game.

The correct course of action would be to get a thicker skin either on your own or with professional help.
Because a lot of people use words like dumb and if you suffer from merely hearing the word without even being directed at you, you have a huge problem even outside of the game.

So rather than posting a very weird and trolly looking thread on some game forums, go try to fix this problem that you/the op have, not the game.

This will improve your general quality of life too.

Op, my suggestion is to roll a male aura instead. You can even get an item from the gem store to do it. The male aura don’t say that line and, imo, are just as adorable ( some, at least).

Secondly, try not to take it personally. Consider every player that plays an Asura. Disabled or no, they’d call all of us dumb. In comparison, we kind of are. It’s like when our dogs do something stupid, because in comparison they are no matter what they do. Thankfully they are so cute we can over look that tiny flaw XD

Andred.1087:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Andred.1087:

I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled … this is unacceptable.

There it is folks! The mask slips!

Unless both of them are trolls working together. In which case, bravo!

Get over yourself. You might stand idly by while someone with a disability is grossly mistreated and abused in a public forum, but I won’t. This isn’t a kittening joke, you idiot.

I think we have our answer Nevets Crimsonwing, we can walk away satisfied

Andred.1087:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Andred.1087:

I’m appalled at how insensitive you people are. OP said they had a minor panic attack over this, and you’re all brushing it off like it’s nothing. Shame on all of you! This is not how you talk to people with disabilities! I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled by something outside of your control. Maybe then you’ll understand why this is unacceptable.

People are just blown away someone had a panic attack over something so incomprehensibly insignificant. You say the problem is people being insensitive, I say the problem is people being hypersensitive.

The PROBLEM is people like YOU not understanding that disabilities are a REAL STRUGGLE and you can’t just blow them off because YOU’RE not affected by them!

You probably never learned that, because our society is still heavily stacked against those with disabilities, but that’s something that has to change. Have you ever considered that the reason the world seems hypersensitive now is that it was unacceptably insensitive before?

The problem is actually people like you who apparently don´t understand that if you remove everything someone has a problem with you will get a nice white screen to look at all day instead of a game. People with arachnophobia want spiders removed, there are phobias regarding sharp objects, cats and so on and so on. So please remove everything.

The problem is actually people like you who apparently don´t understand how your agenda has already almost managed to turn western society into a realm of mediocrity and the people into government drones afraid to even voice the greatest travesties commited against them.

And last of all, if you suffer a panic attack over a computer game, let alone something like this here, it is not the game that has to change. Then you are mentally highly unstable and should seek treatment (personally I´d recommend CBT) – and refrain from such stressful activities altogether.

Andred.1087:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Andred.1087:

I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled … this is unacceptable.

There it is folks! The mask slips!

Unless both of them are trolls working together. In which case, bravo!

Get over yourself. You might stand idly by while someone with a disability is grossly mistreated and abused in a public forum, but I won’t. This isn’t a kittening joke.

This thread escalated quickly. Good read for a slow afternoon at work..

So, you OP, are saying that your dissability is stupidity and you find this offensive?

It’s not just you, OP, that has problems. I have problems, the other posters in this thread have problems. We can extend some sympathy but you aren’t the only one here who has some sort of disability.

The game can’t cater to all disabilities. Should we remove spiders? Sharks? Balloons? Open spaces? Enclosed spaces? All those things and many, many more cause people to have panic attacks. It’s not possible to remove all the things that bother someone. If the Asura bothered you that much then your deletion of the char was one solution. The deletion from the game itself is not.

arooboo.5143:

This thread escalated quickly. Good read for a slow afternoon at work..

Yup very entertaining see ppl feed the trolls

My Asura Necromancer says it occasionally. It’s my favorite shout because it’s the only thing that is so innately Asuran in the fact that they (as a culture) truly believe they are more intelligent and advanced than the other races. They value intelligence above everything else. I’m not for removing this specific shout because it fits their fantasy culture so well.

Honestly, if it causes that much of a problem for you, just roll a different race. It’s not just the Asura warriors that say it, though.

Andred.1087:

I’m appalled at how insensitive you people are. OP said they had a minor panic attack over this, and you’re all brushing it off like it’s nothing. Shame on all of you! This is not how you talk to people with disabilities! I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled by something outside of your control. Maybe then you’ll understand why this is unacceptable.

It is not right at all