Guild Wars 2

When I first heard about stealth in GW2 (I think it was long before Beta) it sounded more like this:

When you’re hit in stealth, you will be revealed for a short amount of time. Dots will reveal the stealthed character as long as he takes damage from it.

Wouldn’t this be a more interesting stealth-mechanic and more fun to 90% of the playerbase? What do you think?

Dots revealing stealthed characters would completely kitten thieves to uselessness in WvW and PvP.

Personally I still think that revealed debuff should be more harsh and that stealth should be technically a boon – ie subject to boonstripping mechanics (all classes should get more skills that boonstrip).

They added a second to revelead but then they reverted it again presumably because all the thieves was laying crying on the floor.

Thieves and mesmers should have a skill to reveal other stealthed thieves and mesmers.

Conditions causing revealed would make stealth the most useless mechanic in the game. Even power builds usually have traits that cause bleeding on crit – how would stealth be even remotely useful?

The only issue with stealth is that it’s treated more as an offensive mechanic, rather than defensive. Characters shouldn’t have their most damage dealing skills when they can’t be seen – Look at a Warrior’s Killshot, highly telegraphed for massive damage. Very fair. A Thieves backstab, invisible and massive damage. Not fair at all.

Zanshin.5379:

Thieves and mesmers should have a skill to reveal other stealthed thieves and mesmers.

No, it should be Stealthed players can see Stealthed players. That way Thieves become instant counters to Thieves in any 1v1 situation.
However both can still use their Sneak Attack mechanic on each other while in Stealth.

It would also come down to this: If both Thieves are in Stealth, the first one to hit the other gets Revealed and immediately loses sight of the other(since the attacking Thief loses Stealth and gains Revealed while the enemy Thief still has Stealth).

Thieves can then Shadow Refuge their allies to see an enemy Stealthed Thief for a certain period of time. But if the party members attack the enemy stealthed Thief, they get Revealed, thus losing Stealth and are not able to see the enemy Thief anymore just like above.

Then we will have Thieves vs Thieves in party-wide situations, with Shadow Refuging your party being an instant counter to a Shadow Refuged party. Of course, first to attack gets Revealed.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

No, it should be Stealthed players can see Stealthed players. That way Thieves become instant counters to Thieves in any 1v1 situation.

I love this idea, I’m not sure of all the rest of your suggestion though.

As long as stealth remains as it is now, this game will most likely never be balanced. Although I doubt Anet cares.

SQLOwns.7316:

As long as stealth remains as it is now, this game will most likely never be balanced. Although I doubt Anet cares.

+1

They should have something like what op said, but in return just buff nearly all of thieves weapons by a good amount. Thieves will be happy with a greater number of viable builds and we won’t be as annoyed by stealth, everyone wins!

A stealth rework, that is fair (to both mesmers/thieves and non-stealth classes), to a certain degree has been welcomed.
However, what ends up happening is (at least coming from the thieves sides) nerfs roll out across skills and traits… for various reasons… no real signs of a rework. Plus, the belief that a fair rework will be made is very small. Likely if there is a rework, they will rework stealth but leave all other non-stealth traits and skills untouched… meaning a half – assed rework and a nerf.

Zanshin.5379:

Thieves and mesmers should have a skill to reveal other stealthed thieves and mesmers.

Rangers have that skill. “sic’ em.” The pet will reveal those in stealth.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Zanshin.5379:

Thieves and mesmers should have a skill to reveal other stealthed thieves and mesmers.

Rangers have that skill. “sic’ em.” The pet will reveal those in stealth.

for 4 seconds on a 40 sec. cooldown while it takes away an important utility skill slot – I don’t think anyone feels like it’s worth it

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em%22

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Zanshin.5379:

Thieves and mesmers should have a skill to reveal other stealthed thieves and mesmers.

Rangers have that skill. “sic’ em.” The pet will reveal those in stealth.

for 4 seconds on a 40 sec. cooldown while it takes away an important utility skill slot – I don’t think anyone feels like it’s worth it

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em%22

Plus that just makes it a binary build choice rather than actual gameplay. You either hate stealth enough to slot it or you don’t, and you can’t know whether you will be rewarded or punished for your decision until it is too late.

This problem already ruins PvP with the broken boons and conditions system, the last thing we need is for the same system of non-play to be applied elsewhere in the game.

My problem is more how you can cc and even down a thief/mesmer and it still remains stealthed.

If either cc or downing destealths, I’m happy enough. No need to make damage destealth.

Whatver you’re asking for wont work unless they completely redesign the class to not have 8823982 strongly required traits, combos and attacks to be entirely dependent on stealth. At that point I’d rather they just changed the Class to Assassin and let me be a tanky dps..

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Turtle Dragon.9241:

No, it should be Stealthed players can see Stealthed players. That way Thieves become instant counters to Thieves in any 1v1 situation.

I love this idea, I’m not sure of all the rest of your suggestion though.

Thieves are already a counter to themselves. Thief players understand stealth mechanics best and know how to deal with other Thieves best.

This is just another QQ thread filled with empty ideas.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Zanshin.5379:

Thieves and mesmers should have a skill to reveal other stealthed thieves and mesmers.

Rangers have that skill. “sic’ em.” The pet will reveal those in stealth.

for 4 seconds on a 40 sec. cooldown while it takes away an important utility skill slot – I don’t think anyone feels like it’s worth it

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em%22

in team play only takes one second to kill a thief out of stealth and sic em is long range skill and cannot be dodged. I know lots rangers who have caused the death of many thiefs using this skill.

vincecontix.1264:

in team play only takes one second to kill a thief out of stealth and sic em is long range skill and cannot be dodged. I know lots rangers who have caused the death of many thiefs using this skill.

And what build did those rangers play? O_o Furthermore: thieves are a danger to small groups, not bigger ones. How likely is it to have a Ranger around all the time, when playing with 2-5 random players?

Can other professions to the same thing?

I’d approve of the idea that at least cc-skills should reveal thieves.

the problem is there are too many options for a theif to remain stealthed 95% of the time.

i was fighting one yesterday, no matter how i played i was downed after 5 mins of 1v1 him. he would do the same thing, once i got him to 50% health he would stealth, retreat & heal and back at me within 10 secs… majority of the time he is coming in and out of stealth for 1 shots, 1 hit then stealth again….

in the end it took 3 of us to down him, the guy had the nerve to party us (since in WvW on different server) and tell us that we were bad players and needed to learn more and how funny it was that we had to zerg him to beat him….

i like the idea of stealthed seeing stealth players however this would mean just run with someone in stealth and problem solved – never backstabbed 10k dmg by theif again…

i could of sworn that stealth never lasted THAT long…

Also, forgot to advertise… (I feel it’s appropriate here)
If you wish to suggest any thief based nerfs, please do so at the following post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Nerf-Wish-list/first

It would totally unbalance thieves if dots revealed their stealth.
Thieves’ stealth doesn’t last long anyway.
If was an unlimited stealth, then i would agree that dots should break it.

Zanshin.5379:

Thieves and mesmers should have a skill to reveal other stealthed thieves and mesmers.

such a good idea! then we can all play thieves and mesmers!

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

When I first heard about stealth in GW2 (I think it was long before Beta) it sounded more like this:

When you’re hit in stealth, you will be revealed for a short amount of time. Dots will reveal the stealthed character as long as he takes damage from it.

Wouldn’t this be a more interesting stealth-mechanic and more fun to 90% of the playerbase? What do you think?

You could very well have just said “delete thief” because this idea would make thieves a waste of coding.

Zacchary.6183:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

When I first heard about stealth in GW2 (I think it was long before Beta) it sounded more like this:

When you’re hit in stealth, you will be revealed for a short amount of time. Dots will reveal the stealthed character as long as he takes damage from it.

Wouldn’t this be a more interesting stealth-mechanic and more fun to 90% of the playerbase? What do you think?

You could very well have just said “delete thief” because this idea would make thieves a waste of coding.

This.

Unless you have a coherent, well-thought out plan to replace pretty much everything about the Thief profession to make it viable in WvW or sPvP without Stealth, including COMPLETE reworks to trait trees, utility skills and access to buffs and debuffs, changes to damage co-efficients and COUNTLESS other variables, then this is the dumbest thing I would ever see in any video game in my entire life, bar none (except maybe the whole thing about Master Chief blindly following 343 Guilty Spark and nearly destroying all life in the universe, or perhaps Team Plasma looking to stop pokemon battles by…battling with pokemon).

Thief, as a profession, would literally be a waste of space, time, effort and data. Even after my thousands of hours invested and legendaries acquired for my character, I would delete her on the spot and play a different game without ever looking back, and I would really hate to do that because I love this game.

Since we’re on the topic of making classes worthless, I’d be interested to hear any plans for Eles in sPvP. If this disaster of a thread bore any truth for any reason at any point in time, then we’d have perhaps one build left that would be mediocre at best. Eles don’t even have that at tournament level.

I’d like to say make stealth a condition remover would make it more viable but considering how spamable it is that would be a bit crazy too. Maybe make only certain stealth skills remove conditions and the others just as they are, a feeder to keep it up till they do get caught then they are forced to wait for the cooldown to another sure fire stealth again against conditions.

the issue with that is that some aoe’s have a huge area and hitting the thief would be to easy, now maybe adding a debuff when their stealth drops that doesn’t allow them to stealth again for 2-4 seconds could work, or making it so certain cc’s knock them out of it like knockdown or immobilize could work but again you’d be destroying a whole class mechanic ruining the game play for another person.

honestly its not the stealth that’s the issue, its the movement they have. they have 2 teleport abilities and the ones spammable. they have a 25% movement signet, and a extra 25% when stealthed buff from traits, which their stealthed a majority of the time.

if it wasn’t for the movement all you’d really have to do is hit them with a knockdown/cc as their stealthing, than spam the area with aoe and dead thief. I think simply reworking the shortbow #5 skill would really fix people feeling thieves where op, but again it’d ruin one of the things thieves love about their class.

:)
This thread looks ever so promising to the demise(and/or the removal) of thieves (some of the ideas)… Can’t wait until they actually go through with your guys ideas… That would bring us closer to something a lot more fun. >:)__

this stealth op would explain why thief is the most popular class in wvw and spvp.
oh wait…it isn’t…

as the “insane mobility and teleports”, we have way less than an elementalist, mesmer or a warrior c’mon…if a thief spam the #5 of bow then is just for an escape, so isn’t a threat since would be out of initiative after 2 teleports

Easlay.3297:

this stealth op would explain why thief is the most popular class in wvw and spvp.
oh wait…it isn’t…

as the “insane mobility and teleports”, we have way less than an elementalist, mesmer or a warrior c’mon…if a thief spam the #5 of bow then is just for an escape, so isn’t a threat since would be out of initiative after 2 teleports

really cuz I can get like 3-4 in on my thief, evan just increasing the initiative to make it so they could only do it twice or maybe making it the only thief weapon skill with a cooldown, could honestly fix the issue. people keep saying the issue is stealth but the real issue is stealth and movement.

tho I do agree warrior movement need a real nerf

Easlay.3297:

this stealth op would explain why thief is the most popular class in wvw and spvp.
oh wait…it isn’t…

as the “insane mobility and teleports”, we have way less than an elementalist, mesmer or a warrior c’mon…if a thief spam the #5 of bow then is just for an escape, so isn’t a threat since would be out of initiative after 2 teleports

But thief is the most popular class in WvW… for trolling people. In sPvP its kitten because the gameplay mode is completely broken.

Your second argument is rather funny. Out of initiative, lol… Yes, then you stealth and have all of it back before even dropping out of stealth. There is a reason you can perma stealth. Its the initiative system that break the stealth system to begin with – no cooldowns, few limitations.

I rather like the idea of stealthed characters being able to see and target other stealthed characters though, pretty neat. Would be hilarious to watch two perma-stealth thieves fight. You just watch them pop up every 5 second and disappear the next, until one is laying spiked.

Quizotic.2815:

Easlay.3297:

this stealth op would explain why thief is the most popular class in wvw and spvp.
oh wait…it isn’t…

as the “insane mobility and teleports”, we have way less than an elementalist, mesmer or a warrior c’mon…if a thief spam the #5 of bow then is just for an escape, so isn’t a threat since would be out of initiative after 2 teleports

really cuz I can get like 3-4 in on my thief, evan just increasing the initiative to make it so they could only do it twice or maybe making it the only thief weapon skill with a cooldown, could honestly fix the issue. people keep saying the issue is stealth but the real issue is stealth and movement.

tho I do agree warrior movement need a real nerf

So you get rid of stealth and movement and what does that leave thieves with?

Dawdler.8521:

…
Your second argument is rather funny. Out of initiative, lol… Yes, then you stealth and have all of it back before even dropping out of stealth. There is a reason you can perma stealth. Its the initiative system that break the stealth system to begin with – no cooldowns, few limitations.
…

Um… wasn’t perma-stealthing not nerfed last patch…? Am I missing something…?
Or was it that they interpreted it wrong, nerfed the thieves, but people still want what they’ve been originally asking for (incoming another nerf) but were misinterpreted.

Zero Day.2594:

Dawdler.8521:

…
Your second argument is rather funny. Out of initiative, lol… Yes, then you stealth and have all of it back before even dropping out of stealth. There is a reason you can perma stealth. Its the initiative system that break the stealth system to begin with – no cooldowns, few limitations.
…

Um… wasn’t perma-stealthing not nerfed last patch…? Am I missing something…?
Or was it that they interpreted it wrong, nerfed the thieves, but people still want what they’ve been originally asking for (incoming another nerf) but were misinterpreted.

i don’t think it was nerfed last patch – if anything they buffed it, maybe by accident but it is definitely different than before the patch!

problem is – a weap skill to stealth with a util to stealth + steal to stealth – too many options to hit & stealth and repeat. yes there probably is a counter and learn to dodge blah blah – but i dont think the culling in Spvp is working correctly in WvW – i mean there IS suppose to be a tool to stop the theif for at least 1-2 secs from going in and out of stealth at such a rapid rate – correct me if i am wrong please? i haven’t played my theif since before last patch…

Zacchary.6183:

Quizotic.2815:

Easlay.3297:

this stealth op would explain why thief is the most popular class in wvw and spvp.
oh wait…it isn’t…

as the “insane mobility and teleports”, we have way less than an elementalist, mesmer or a warrior c’mon…if a thief spam the #5 of bow then is just for an escape, so isn’t a threat since would be out of initiative after 2 teleports

really cuz I can get like 3-4 in on my thief, evan just increasing the initiative to make it so they could only do it twice or maybe making it the only thief weapon skill with a cooldown, could honestly fix the issue. people keep saying the issue is stealth but the real issue is stealth and movement.

tho I do agree warrior movement need a real nerf

So you get rid of stealth and movement and what does that leave thieves with?

no im saying nerf one or the other. and I honestly think nerfing movement, with the shortbow #5 skill is the way to go.

people are complaining because “well I cant see them in stealth and when I do hit them they just port away quickly” with shortbow #5. I think uping the initiative to 8-9 or giving it a 5 second cooldown would fix most of the problems, thieves cant port away from combat as easily except with shadowstep and that’s on an almost minute cooldown. and thieves still keep their stealth and still have some movement skills just not one that they can spam the hell out of.

honestly if their stealthed and you have a general idea of where they are, you can still hit them with aoe or a knockback if their on your tower, however when their porting around ever 2 seconds with shadowstep, shortbow, or sword #2 while weaving stealth into that is make it a kitten to hit them

As a thief who focuses on wvw, i can admit that stealth is laughably op’d in this game. I can stealth at will, completely heal, cleanse conditions, regain initiative and reposition. I can sit back and watch my multiple enemies flail at open air. It makes this class easy mode. I wish ANET would prevent stealthing while in combat to make this class more challenging.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Simple-Stealth-balancing

you know what? I just watched a few youtube clips on how to play a thief and it just looks like too much fun. I’m going to level up my thief and start having fun in WvW against some poor solos. Don’t nerf stealth now. :P

Stealth is not difficult to deal with. I learned how in realation to what I played, so can you if you just apply yourself instead of asking for things to be changed to suit your difficencies.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Stealth is not difficult to deal with. I learned how in realation to what I played, so can you if you just apply yourself instead of asking for things to be changed to suit your difficencies.

The thing is: you have to learn how to deal with it, which is much harder than learning how to deal with a charging warrior or dodging out of red circles. Most players who don’t spend too much time in PvP/WvW don’t know any of that since this was never taught by any content in PvE.

And then look at PvErs who try WvW for the first time. Two of my friends encountered a few thieves in their first hour of playing WvW / any PvP content in that game. Well, this was last year and none of them has returned to WvW yet.

@quizotic:
that depends on the spec; with 12 ini u can hardly spam 3-4 shortbow #5 in subseq;
plus in combat, if u increase the cost to 8-9, u would just push ppl to take as a must trickery tree for +3 ini for have the shortbow still effective as a mov. speed/escape tool.
increase the #5 cost to shortbow and then? what’s left to this weapon?
already we can’t hit anything from walls in WvsW since cluster bomb range nerf (almost everything is out of range).

count that if we have a good mov. ability is even thk our lack of boons and stability, and do wvw without stability is not rly that comfortable; nerfing the thief movement (still inferior to warrior’s one), then u have to give him something for keep his survivability at decent levels.

note that not everyone is running S/D + shortbow….if u make your argument just around a single weapon set then what are we speaking about?

regarding stealth: if u are not aware of a thief incoming and that 100-0 then both you and him are glasscannon, no sense cry that a squishy assassin just get stomped by another squishy assassin…
but if u are not a glasscannon or u see the thief incoming, well.. after some time get rly easy to predict the thief movements :/

the point is always the same:
– nerf thief mobility, then u need to give him something for compensate his lack of survivability, since he lacks of boons and stability
– nerf stealth uptime (that would not be bad), but then just have to rewrite whole thief gameplay and give him some cc/survi utility, or would be just like a warrior with lower health, lower armor, slightly lower damage and not sustain cc and boons
Maybe we would finally see a P/P rework in that case..

@marcus: give up on WvW after 1h is nosense; means they are not suited for player vs player games, but just for limited player vs IA opponent games, that are easy predictable to deal with and rather boring.

Easlay.3297:

@marcus: give up on WvW after 1h is nosense; means they are not suited for player vs player games, but just for limited player vs IA opponent games, that are easy predictable to deal with and rather boring.

I’m sorry, but you don’t know my friends. I totally get that, if I had been in the same situation – encountering good thief-players when still new to WvW – I probably would have left too, especially since it just looks overpowered.

(they got trolled pretty hard and never made it to the zerg)

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Stealth is not difficult to deal with. I learned how in realation to what I played, so can you if you just apply yourself instead of asking for things to be changed to suit your difficencies.

The thing is: you have to learn how to deal with it, which is much harder than learning how to deal with a charging warrior or dodging out of red circles. Most players who don’t spend too much time in PvP/WvW don’t know any of that since this was never taught by any content in PvE.

And then look at PvErs who try WvW for the first time. Two of my friends encountered a few thieves in their first hour of playing WvW / any PvP content in that game. Well, this was last year and none of them has returned to WvW yet.

Learning how to deal with it is no reason for it to be nerfed.

We were all new at some point, we all adapted(some of us did at least,) there is no reason or excuse that someone should not also learn.

I’ve had to learn how to deal with various things from other classes that I’ve come accross, especially when I don’t know anything about some of these builds they are employing.

I’d much rather people step up their game and learn so that they become more fun to fight. I’d much rather deal with a stealth build than one of those using shadow step, hate them, but I’m not going to ask for some stupid nerf, I’ll learn instead. This is what seperates the better players from the scrubs.

There is only 1 change that I can agree with regarding stealth and that is because it does not follow the other stealth mechanics with revieled. When stomping from stealth, the stealth stomper should be revieled after successful completion of stomping, just like all other successful attacks from stealth apply a revieled, I think that should also.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Easlay.3297:

@marcus: give up on WvW after 1h is nosense; means they are not suited for player vs player games, but just for limited player vs IA opponent games, that are easy predictable to deal with and rather boring.

I’m sorry, but you don’t know my friends. I totally get that, if I had been in the same situation – encountering good thief-players when still new to WvW – I probably would have left too, especially since it just looks overpowered.

(they got trolled pretty hard and never made it to the zerg)

i joined WvsW for 1st time during the D/D ele gold age and got stomped pretty hard aswell, and was looking rly overpowered from my pov.
reason? i was totally a newcomer and a noob, and like in every PvP game, u have to pay that by get tons of kicks before learn how to walk

Easlay.3297:

i joined WvsW for 1st time during the D/D ele gold age and got stomped pretty hard aswell, and was looking rly overpowered from my pov.
reason? i was totally a newcomer and a noob, and like in every PvP game, u have to pay that by get tons of kicks before learn how to walk

This isn’t the rule, I’ve had some difficult encounters first, yes – but never to the point of having me trolled for half an hour like it happened to my friends.

Nevertheless… different people have different experiences, ok. But I think mechanics to WvW – profession mechanics – should be taught in PvE. You learn to dodge in PvE. You learn to use stunbreakers in PvE (Orr). Why not design difficult encounters who teach you how to best deal with stealthed enemies?

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Easlay.3297:

i joined WvsW for 1st time during the D/D ele gold age and got stomped pretty hard aswell, and was looking rly overpowered from my pov.
reason? i was totally a newcomer and a noob, and like in every PvP game, u have to pay that by get tons of kicks before learn how to walk

This isn’t the rule, I’ve had some difficult encounters first, yes – but never to the point of having me trolled for half an hour like it happened to my friends.

Nevertheless… different people have different experiences, ok. But I think mechanics to WvW – profession mechanics – should be taught in PvE. You learn to dodge in PvE. You learn to use stunbreakers in PvE (Orr). Why not design difficult encounters who teach you how to best deal with stealthed enemies?

They can’t get the AI that smart.

The stealth critters in the game now, just run right up to you. Sometimes they even stealth when low in health but they still stand right next to you and you can continue to swing. If it teaches you anything, it will teach you that stealth does not grant invulnerability and you can also lean that when you are hitting something, unless your weapon attack is channeled, you should learn that when hitting something invisible you continue to see your attack annimation.

AI is no replacement for actual humans controlling the other character.

u have stealthed enemies in pve, but again, they are IA enemies and they won’t teach u anything for a pvp situation, where is all up to your enemie strategy.

the best way is always to dive yourself on the ring and fight, but like in everything vs other ppl (the same is with every sports, both teamwork and individual based)

@easlay i must apologize i just logged onto my thief that i haven’t played in months to try out the shortbow and had enough initiative to use the #5 ability 3 times, i didn’t even realize that 15 trickery gave me an extra 3 init.

tho i still say thieves can run away and reset fights a little to easily, tho other classes can do it a lot easier so its not that big of a deal really

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

you know what? I just watched a few youtube clips on how to play a thief and it just looks like too much fun. I’m going to level up my thief and start having fun in WvW against some poor solos. Don’t nerf stealth now. :P

This is the [/thread]. Y’all can stop post now.

I have several thieves and I agree that stealth is laughably broken in this game. I find it ridiculously easy to down multiple enemies due to my ability to perma stealth at will after the last patch. Anet made it much easier to perma stealth, the opposite of what many of we thieves wanted. I strongly encourage that you persistantly send respectful feedback to ANET about the ability to stealth while in combat. I would like me thieves to offer a challenge again.

Sanduskel.1850:

I have several thieves and I agree that stealth is laughably broken in this game. I find it ridiculously easy to down multiple enemies due to my ability to perma stealth at will after the last patch. Anet made it much easier to perma stealth, the opposite of what many of we thieves wanted. I strongly encourage that you persistantly send respectful feedback to ANET about the ability to stealth while in combat. I would like me thieves to offer a challenge again.

This is a blatant lie, it’s now harder to gain pseudopermenant stealth than before the patch.

Also, I seriously can’t believe the amount of people in this thread who haven’t even played a Thief commenting on what a Thief does and how. Half of you haven’t heard of the revealed debuff and the other half doesn’t even know how long Thieves can stay in stealth for in reality.

You can take away stealth and mobility when Thieves get 18k Base health, full access to stability, convert conditions to boons, protection, aegis, higher than 900 range…

My ranger can get stealth at 1500 range every 9.5 seconds with no precast. The only stealth a thief gets with no pre-cast is blinding powder. How’s that balanced?