Guild Wars 2

So sayeth the lord who speaketh, and sayeth the Slaver of Abaddon, who coruppted our marketh, and our customs, and our supplies.

Abaddon is alive and well, and he lives in the marketing department of ANet, proof in the attachement!

As you can see, the last few months the demand has been well over 400% of the supply.

Excuse me while I go prepare the people at Wall Street.

How is a decision made 17 days ago supposed to have prevented a problem occurring months ago?

I’ve heard some interesting abilities attributed to John Smith but time travel is a new one.

Danikat.8537:

How is a decision made 17 days ago supposed to have prevented a problem occurring months ago?

I’ve heard some interesting abilities attributed to John Smith but time travel is a new one.

Welllll….
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/John_Smith_

Danikat.8537:

I’ve heard some interesting abilities attributed to John Smith but time travel is a new one.

The great thing about being a time traveller is that you can keep hopping around removing all the evidence that you are a time traveller. It also helps to have a very generic name so you don’t attract too much attention. Just sayin’….

Danikat.8537:

How is a decision made 17 days ago supposed to have prevented a problem occurring months ago?

I’ve heard some interesting abilities attributed to John Smith but time travel is a new one.

The point being:
Months ago the market was crashing. 17 days ago they said; ‘the market is fine, it will fix itself.’
So no trime traveling was involved, it was simply: ‘Oh, there’s been problem for several months now.. naah, it’ll resolve itself’

Danikat.8537:

How is a decision made 17 days ago supposed to have prevented a problem occurring months ago?

I’ve heard some interesting abilities attributed to John Smith but time travel is a new one.

You’re asking the wrong question. You should be asking “How is a decision made 17 days ago supposed to fix a problem occurring months ago?” It’s not. It’s just the latest way John Smith is kittening up the economy some more because he thinks it’s his own personal economic sandbox.

Well in a way it is a little economics sandbox, just not* his own lol. But then again, governments don’t really own people and…let us not dwell too heavily on this and just go with “John is testing the invisible hand of the market hypothesis” I guess.

It has been said time and time again, but just to reiterate:

The price changes of single items are not reflective of the entire economy.

Just because it’s an item that you want, doesn’t mean it needs to be “fixed” by someone messing with the markets.

Amaimon.7823:

So sayeth the lord who speaketh, and sayeth the Slaver of Abaddon, who coruppted our marketh, and our customs, and our supplies.

Abaddon is alive and well, and he lives in the marketing department of ANet, proof in the attachement!

As you can see, the last few months the demand has been well over 400% of the supply.

Excuse me while I go prepare the people at Wall Street.

• The supply of any item on the TP represents a tiny fraction of the supply. We can’t use TP data as a proxy for understanding true supply and demand.
• It’s unrealistic to expect that every item will have evenly matching TP supply and demand.
• It’s also unrealistic to expect that items we want in quantity will be cheap when we want them (and expensive when we have a surplus).

From January to June of this year, the TP demand for ecto was double and (most of the time) triple that of TP supply. Ecto approached 60s, which seems much more worrisome than e.g. the price of Mystic Coins — ecto are used by everyone, whereas M-Coins are used primarily for premium skins.

With the popularity of Auric Basin Multi-loot™, ecto demand is in the same ballpark as before, but the supply is 5-8 times greater and prices have dropped. People have posted in these very forums that it’s too low now.

Today people complain about high-priced leather and m-coins, but they also complain about low-priced ecto. In the past, people complained about low-priced ecto and m-coins and high-priced ecto.

In other words, the market isn’t the issue here. People are upset by the price.

Accordingly, Mr Smith said that the goal was to let things get worse, not that market would fix itself necessarily. The idea is, he said, to get people used to the idea that there is no magic number that determines that an item is too expensive or too cheap. When things get bad enough, people will behave differently: more people with stacks will reconsider keeping them; more of us who always “instant buy” will consider using custom offers. At that point, the market might fix itself, but if it doesn’t, that’s when ANet will start micromanaging again.

In short, the issue is that some of us are concerned about prices. The problem is that there is no magic formula for (a) determining a good price and (b) ensuring that the market hits it all the time.

Plus, the Mystic Coin is one of those special items. People at first don’t see the significance of it, but as it becomes clearer, more and more people want them, and I don’t think they are that easy to find. This item will take a lot longer to balance out, if it ever will.

How do you break people from hording? That’s the issue. The relatively sudden rise in price encourages hording more than the attractiveness of selling.

I think we can agree that when Mystic coins were under 2s that they were undervalued partially because there wasn’t an overwhelming demand for them as supply on the TP was over 250K, peaking over 500K. Price drifted up to 15s due to the changes in daily rewards but what spiked it was Wintersday. 2015, there was some recipe that required Mystic Coins for some goodie and that simply drained the TP and nearly doubling the price and draining supply under 100K. A 12-13x increase in price from Jan 1, 2015 to Jan 1, 2016 isn’t a value correction makes everyone sit up and take notice.

Now if ANet introduces a windfall of Mystic Coins, what percentage will actually make it to the TP where it can affect the price? And what John alludes to is that they are seeing there is plenty of mystic coins in the game, it’s just those who have them aren’t selling.

Behellagh.1468:

How do you break people from hording? That’s the issue. The relatively sudden rise in price encourages hording more than the attractiveness of selling.

You change many of the recipes that require mystic coins to require something else… or make them use less mystic coins. The less in-demand they are, the more will be flogged on the TP.

I suppose I could be considered one of those who hoard mystic coins. But, I don’t do so out of any nefarious scheme to sell them for profit. I hold on to them because at some point I’m going to want to make a weapon skin for a particular look I’ll be going for at that time. I keep the coins I get, and I use them sparingly because I know how easily I could burn through them. They are just too useful to part with.

~EW

I think the point that there is no specific ‘good’ price for an item is an important one.

A high price is very good for a seller – it means their items are valuable and they can make a good profit selling them. This is why many people are currently concerned that the price of ectoplasm is too low.

Meanwhile a low price is very good for a buyer – it means they don’t have to spend as much to get what they want. This is why many people are currently concerned that the price of mystic coins is too high.

But which group is right? If Anet were to introduce measures to increase the price of ectoplasm and decrease the price of mystic coins would that fix the problem? Or would it just flip it so now buyers of ecto and sellers of mystic coins are upset?

Meanwhile as some people have said the price of any individual item has very little to do with the health of the economy. I’m not an economist but as I understand it that’s more to do with the level of activity – lots of people buying and selling lots of items is good, regardless of how much they pay and little trade is bad. Extreme prices can cause a reduction in the overall volume of trade (this is why massive inflation is a problem, if no one can afford to buy anything you don’t get much trade) but outside of wide-reaching changes it’s unlikely prices will have a big effect.

/shrugs

You get mystic coins for logging in; it’s not like leather where you have to farm and be dependent on RNG. Thus getting whatever amount seems inevitable to me. Yea, timegates are lame I guess but how many of those things do you really need? To me they’re just an extra 15 gold every month.

I mean in the span of 3 months, if you did nothing but dailies, you would take in 180 gold, 105 laurels, 60 coins, and a choice between more clovers and laurels. Oh, and I suppose this inevitably benefits newer players more who aren’t ready for legendary as they can stockpile more gold.

It would seem the real issue is the RNG behind things such as mystic clovers.

ArchonWing.9480:

/shrugs

You get mystic coins for logging in; it’s not like leather where you have to farm and be dependent on RNG. Thus getting whatever amount seems inevitable to me. Yea, timegates are lame I guess but how many of those things do you really need? To me they’re just an extra 15 gold every month.

I mean in the span of 3 months, if you did nothing but dailies, you would take in 180 gold, 105 laurels, 60 coins, and a choice between more clovers and laurels. Oh, and I suppose this inevitably benefits newer players more who aren’t ready for legendary as they can stockpile more gold.

It would seem the real issue is the RNG behind things such as mystic clovers.

The thing is you can reliably farm Mystic Clovers through Pvp and WvW without having to involve RNG or Mystic Coins.

ArchonWing.9480:

/shrugs

You get mystic coins for logging in; it’s not like leather where you have to farm and be dependent on RNG. Thus getting whatever amount seems inevitable to me. Yea, timegates are lame I guess but how many of those things do you really need? To me they’re just an extra 15 gold every month.

I mean in the span of 3 months, if you did nothing but dailies, you would take in 180 gold, 105 laurels, 60 coins, and a choice between more clovers and laurels. Oh, and I suppose this inevitably benefits newer players more who aren’t ready for legendary as they can stockpile more gold.

It would seem the real issue is the RNG behind things such as mystic clovers.

Right back at you, you can farm leather. Easy, but easy. You cant farm coins. You get a fix supply every months. Not cuts, no extras, 60 coins. There are a LOT of recipes that cost way more than 60 coins. In fact, the mystic clovers are really cheap compared to the average MC inclusive recipe.

Even if mystic coins would be 10g each it would be a fair price since they are only needed to get prestige items

Amaimon.7823:

ArchonWing.9480:

/shrugs

You get mystic coins for logging in; it’s not like leather where you have to farm and be dependent on RNG. Thus getting whatever amount seems inevitable to me. Yea, timegates are lame I guess but how many of those things do you really need? To me they’re just an extra 15 gold every month.

I mean in the span of 3 months, if you did nothing but dailies, you would take in 180 gold, 105 laurels, 60 coins, and a choice between more clovers and laurels. Oh, and I suppose this inevitably benefits newer players more who aren’t ready for legendary as they can stockpile more gold.

It would seem the real issue is the RNG behind things such as mystic clovers.

Right back at you, you can farm leather. Easy, but easy. You cant farm coins. You get a fix supply every months. Not cuts, no extras, 60 coins. There are a LOT of recipes that cost way more than 60 coins. In fact, the mystic clovers are really cheap compared to the average MC inclusive recipe.

Which has been the case since launch. I don’t recall anyone complaining about it since then. The issue isn’t the lack of ability to farm them but simply the price. If the conditions were the same as they are today, but the coins only cost 5s, I can gaurantee you that these complaints would not exist.

Players can get at least 48 mystic coins every 28 days. They can reduce the number that they need by farming mystic clovers and buying the weapons (i.e. Mystic) that require them to craft. There are ways for players to mitigate how many coins they actually need unlike at launch when you pretty much had the same recipes we have today but people didn’t complain about.

Malediktus.3740:

Even if mystic coins would be 10g each it would be a fair price since they are only needed to get prestige items

Agreed. Another critical point about Mystic Coins — they aren’t required for standard gear, just for premium and prestige items.

Mind you: while 10g is a “fair price” if folks are willing to pay it, it’s not necessarily good for the game if m-coins go that high. On the other hand, I don’t see a compelling argument why it’s bad for the game either.

Put another way: I currently can afford all I need and plenty that I want, so I don’t feel pressure to divest myself of mystic coins. If, however, people offered me 10g/coin, I’d rethink how much I want another skin that requires them and start looking at skins that don’t. Not because the price of e.g. legendaries went up, but because with 10g/coin, I could afford something like the new infusion.

Behellagh.1468:

How do you break people from hording? That’s the issue. The relatively sudden rise in price encourages hording more than the attractiveness of selling.

I think we can agree that when Mystic coins were under 2s that they were undervalued partially because there wasn’t an overwhelming demand for them as supply on the TP was over 250K, peaking over 500K. Price drifted up to 15s due to the changes in daily rewards but what spiked it was Wintersday. 2015, there was some recipe that required Mystic Coins for some goodie and that simply drained the TP and nearly doubling the price and draining supply under 100K. A 12-13x increase in price from Jan 1, 2015 to Jan 1, 2016 isn’t a value correction makes everyone sit up and take notice.

Now if ANet introduces a windfall of Mystic Coins, what percentage will actually make it to the TP where it can affect the price? And what John alludes to is that they are seeing there is plenty of mystic coins in the game, it’s just those who have them aren’t selling.

Increased prices could also get those hoarding to sell the mats. If Mystic Coins get over 1.5 g each and are steady there with them appearing to sell decently at that price, I’ll probably dump about half of the stack I sit on (I have 250 Mystic Coins, I sell any that I get currently as I get them).

Seera.5916:

Behellagh.1468:

How do you break people from hording? That’s the issue. The relatively sudden rise in price encourages hording more than the attractiveness of selling.

I think we can agree that when Mystic coins were under 2s that they were undervalued partially because there wasn’t an overwhelming demand for them as supply on the TP was over 250K, peaking over 500K. Price drifted up to 15s due to the changes in daily rewards but what spiked it was Wintersday. 2015, there was some recipe that required Mystic Coins for some goodie and that simply drained the TP and nearly doubling the price and draining supply under 100K. A 12-13x increase in price from Jan 1, 2015 to Jan 1, 2016 isn’t a value correction makes everyone sit up and take notice.

Now if ANet introduces a windfall of Mystic Coins, what percentage will actually make it to the TP where it can affect the price? And what John alludes to is that they are seeing there is plenty of mystic coins in the game, it’s just those who have them aren’t selling.

Increased prices could also get those hoarding to sell the mats. If Mystic Coins get over 1.5 g each and are steady there with them appearing to sell decently at that price, I’ll probably dump about half of the stack I sit on (I have 250 Mystic Coins, I sell any that I get currently as I get them).

Unless the hoarders feel that the price will go up more. The price has been fairly steady where it is at now with the coins selling fairly well and yet players are still hoarding.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Behellagh.1468:

How do you break people from hording? That’s the issue. The relatively sudden rise in price encourages hording more than the attractiveness of selling.

You change many of the recipes that require mystic coins to require something else… or make them use less mystic coins. The less in-demand they are, the more will be flogged on the TP.

I suppose I could be considered one of those who hoard mystic coins. But, I don’t do so out of any nefarious scheme to sell them for profit. I hold on to them because at some point I’m going to want to make a weapon skin for a particular look I’ll be going for at that time. I keep the coins I get, and I use them sparingly because I know how easily I could burn through them. They are just too useful to part with.

~EW

Agreed. Mystic Coins would be in a great place if they were only used for Legendary weapons but they aren’t. They are used for hundreds of other recipes.

Almost 90 unique weapon skins not related to legendaries require mystic coins, usually 50+

Feasts of Food recipes require mystic coins

Armor boxes require mystic coins (even though I’m pretty sure no one uses these any more)

Some GH upgrades require mystic coins

Dozens of collections are dependent upon items that require mystic coins to forge

At least 1 rune requires mystic coins to forge

Its just a massive list for how little each player brings into the game. And people hoard them because of how many they need for each recipe, and how many recipes require mystic coins. Some (a lot actually) of those recipes need to be changed to either require fewer mystic coins or to require another item instead

Seera.5916:

Behellagh.1468:

How do you break people from hording? That’s the issue. The relatively sudden rise in price encourages hording more than the attractiveness of selling.

I think we can agree that when Mystic coins were under 2s that they were undervalued partially because there wasn’t an overwhelming demand for them as supply on the TP was over 250K, peaking over 500K. Price drifted up to 15s due to the changes in daily rewards but what spiked it was Wintersday. 2015, there was some recipe that required Mystic Coins for some goodie and that simply drained the TP and nearly doubling the price and draining supply under 100K. A 12-13x increase in price from Jan 1, 2015 to Jan 1, 2016 isn’t a value correction makes everyone sit up and take notice.

Now if ANet introduces a windfall of Mystic Coins, what percentage will actually make it to the TP where it can affect the price? And what John alludes to is that they are seeing there is plenty of mystic coins in the game, it’s just those who have them aren’t selling.

Increased prices could also get those hoarding to sell the mats. If Mystic Coins get over 1.5 g each and are steady there with them appearing to sell decently at that price, I’ll probably dump about half of the stack I sit on (I have 250 Mystic Coins, I sell any that I get currently as I get them).

And that is what JS is saying. At some point the price will break the hoarding dam. Problem it’s a waiting game and unlike a real economy, players can choose to check out which would be bad for the game overall.

Behellagh.1468:

How do you break people from hording?

Cap their storage space and make them pay gems to expand it?

Amaimon.7823:

So sayeth the lord who speaketh, and sayeth the Slaver of Abaddon, who coruppted our marketh, and our customs, and our supplies.

Abaddon is alive and well, and he lives in the marketing department of ANet, proof in the attachement!

As you can see, the last few months the demand has been well over 400% of the supply.

Excuse me while I go prepare the people at Wall Street.

I don’t see what the problem is here. It’s exactly as JS and Anet said … price will raise to the point where demand and supply are more inline. It’s not speculation that markets will adjust … it’s part of their very nature to do so.

QQing that Mystic coins are ‘expensive’ and claiming that it’s because there is something ‘wrong’ in general with Anet’s approach to let the markets work themselves out shows you don’t know what you are talking about. When the price is ‘right’, people will release their coins to ease the demand.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

ArchonWing.9480:

/shrugs

You get mystic coins for logging in; it’s not like leather where you have to farm and be dependent on RNG. Thus getting whatever amount seems inevitable to me. Yea, timegates are lame I guess but how many of those things do you really need? To me they’re just an extra 15 gold every month.

I mean in the span of 3 months, if you did nothing but dailies, you would take in 180 gold, 105 laurels, 60 coins, and a choice between more clovers and laurels. Oh, and I suppose this inevitably benefits newer players more who aren’t ready for legendary as they can stockpile more gold.

It would seem the real issue is the RNG behind things such as mystic clovers.

The thing is you can reliably farm Mystic Clovers through Pvp and WvW without having to involve RNG or Mystic Coins.

You certainly can, and I have like 100 or so Mystic Clovers from reward tracks that I’m considering just vendoring.

But I do understand some people don’t like WvW or PvP so I decided to leave that out.
I like to pretend the issue is at least a problem for the sake of discussion. I was also wondering what the coins were for, for the most part.

Though, what say you, if reward tracks gave mystic coins? :p

Amaimon.7823:

ArchonWing.9480:

/shrugs

You get mystic coins for logging in; it’s not like leather where you have to farm and be dependent on RNG. Thus getting whatever amount seems inevitable to me. Yea, timegates are lame I guess but how many of those things do you really need? To me they’re just an extra 15 gold every month.

I mean in the span of 3 months, if you did nothing but dailies, you would take in 180 gold, 105 laurels, 60 coins, and a choice between more clovers and laurels. Oh, and I suppose this inevitably benefits newer players more who aren’t ready for legendary as they can stockpile more gold.

It would seem the real issue is the RNG behind things such as mystic clovers.

Right back at you, you can farm leather. Easy, but easy. You cant farm coins. You get a fix supply every months. Not cuts, no extras, 60 coins. There are a LOT of recipes that cost way more than 60 coins. In fact, the mystic clovers are really cheap compared to the average MC inclusive recipe.

Farming leather might be easy I guess, but it still takes time. Logging in and doing dailies is significantly less work

It’s the same thing to me though. I don’t farm for a specific thing. I just sell whatever and then use the gold to buy whatever I need. A few hundred gold for a skin doesn’t feel like a big deal so I’m trying to grasp what the coins are so desperately needed for farming.

Behellagh.1468:

And that is what JS is saying. At some point the price will break the hoarding dam. Problem it’s a waiting game and unlike a real economy, players can choose to check out which would be bad for the game overall.

Yup. I can guaranteed you that I’ll be unloading my Mystic Coins once the price hits 1 Gold per or higher.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

In other words, the market isn’t the issue here. People are upset by the price.

There are two types of complaints about game economies.

• Complaints that X is too high are almost always going to be by posters who want the item.
• Complaints that X is too low are almost always going to be by posters who want to sell the item.

So, yeah, price is the motivating factor.

Behellagh.1468

And that is what JS is saying. At some point the price will break the hoarding dam. Problem it’s a waiting game and unlike a real economy, players can choose to check out which would be bad for the game overall.

And what do you think will happen after the break of the hoarding dam? After this moment the extra MC will be used and we will have the naked reality: The input of MC is far lower than the needs ingame. By having 20 MC per months you cannot say that the input is equal or greater than the needs. You need almost one year at this rate to craft one legendary.

Behellagh.1468 – I will try to reformulate your second statement: (GW2) being a waiting game it’s a problem. And unlike the real economy players cannot chose to check out for an alternative. And this is bad for the game overall.

In my opinion ANet is keeping the MC problem alive for the Legendary Armor moment. In that moment the need of MC will be very high. And a lot of players will buy gems with RL to sold them for gold.

As a note: Why MC are treated different from Laurels? Why an item “gifted” by ANet can be sold on TP and another no?

As a personal opinion – I prefer ANet to stop this charity – we are not handicapped and we can achieve the MC ingame by playing if ANet will come with a method to achieve MC ingame – by playing and not waiting. Now we are at ANet mercy – an excellent example of a brainwashed herd patiently waiting for the MASTER to give them some food. But you know what? We can find the food ourselves. With the condition to acknowledge the existence of the wall preventing us to to that. And the actual method of delivering MC in game is exactly this: a wall preventing us to move. And forcing us to wait.

I think that not the quantity of MC is the problem – but the way of achieving them. And the fact that we can sell them. Selling a charity :-)

In this game players will obtain items by doing lots of differant things, and they are free to do with those items whatever they wish.
There is NO requirement whatsoever that players must sell their items on the TP just because other players want them to.
If players dont want to sell their mystic coins then thats their business and not yours.

First, by check out I mean leave the game.

Second the game’s economy is designed around the fact that most players will not get what they need from loot drops, resource gathering or other activities which forces them to the TP with it’s gold sink.

Third for any item to have value, it has to have some degree of scarcity. Basically more demand than new supply entering the economy, specifically supply being sold on the TP.

As for Laurels, they’re an account bound currency, not a crafting material traded on the TP.

MC have always been tied to a loyalty reward system as the primary source. Do dailies, do monthlies, login daily. It wasn’t like you could farm them. And as a loyalty reward I doubt they will ever stop this “charity”.

Behellagh.1468

First, by check out I mean leave the game.

Sorry for my poor English – I translated this as : check out = to search for. Sorry again.
This means I totally agree with your statement as you wrote it.

The differences are with the way we interpret it.

The subject of this thread is John Smith’s statement that ‘the market will fix itself’. In this case the fix is impossible. The market is regulated by the supply and demand. If the supply for one item is too low, the price is rising, making other players interested in gathering/producing that item – this results in a greater supply then a lower price. This is the mechanism. In the case of MC you cannot influence the supply in such manner to affect the demand – with other words the price. Because the supply is determined by ANet. Despite the statements that they will not interfere in any way with the market for a while, the way the MC are inserted in the game is in fact a very serious interference. It denies the players any way to help the market to “fix itself”.

And I think that considering the MC to be a “loyalty reward” is a nice try to hide your head in sand :-)). The MC is a pressure instrument used by ANet to force the players to pay. Not gold, but RL.

The difference between a cattle and a wild bull is not in the aspect (they look the same) but in attitude. The wild animal will fight for his existence. Even if sometimes the existence is not easy or comfortable. The cattle will wait with a fatalistic attitude the mercy of the master. To decide for it.

In this moment ANet is deciding for us. The decision was that we have enough MC on the market. And even if J.S said that no intervention will take place, in fact ANet is continuously interfering with the MC – by not letting the players to decide when enough MC are on market (by farming it for example until the price will be unattractive).

Amaimon.7823:

As you can see, the last few months the demand has been well over 400% of the supply.

Supply and demand are all very well, but existence and annihilation are also a factor in this instance. I believe that John Smith is concerned that Mystic Coins (among other items) are being hoarded as a form of wealth protection (against mudflation) rather than spent (annihilated).

Cristalyan.5728:

Behellagh.1468

First, by check out I mean leave the game.

Sorry for my poor English – I translated this as : check out = to search for. Sorry again.
This means I totally agree with your statement as you wrote it.

The differences are with the way we interpret it.

The subject of this thread is John Smith’s statement that ‘the market will fix itself’. In this case the fix is impossible. The market is regulated by the supply and demand. If the supply for one item is too low, the price is rising, making other players interested in gathering/producing that item – this results in a greater supply then a lower price. This is the mechanism. In the case of MC you cannot influence the supply in such manner to affect the demand – with other words the price. Because the supply is determined by ANet. Despite the statements that they will not interfere in any way with the market for a while, the way the MC are inserted in the game is in fact a very serious interference. It denies the players any way to help the market to “fix itself”.

And I think that considering the MC to be a “loyalty reward” is a nice try to hide your head in sand :-)). The MC is a pressure instrument used by ANet to force the players to pay. Not gold, but RL.

The difference between a cattle and a wild bull is not in the aspect (they look the same) but in attitude. The wild animal will fight for his existence. Even if sometimes the existence is not easy or comfortable. The cattle will wait with a fatalistic attitude the mercy of the master. To decide for it.

In this moment ANet is deciding for us. The decision was that we have enough MC on the market. And even if J.S said that no intervention will take place, in fact ANet is continuously interfering with the MC – by not letting the players to decide when enough MC are on market (by farming it for example until the price will be unattractive).

Thank you.

To iterate further:
The amount of MC in the game (not even in the market) is dictated as 60 per acount THAT LOGS IN EVERY DAY. That means that every existing acount that does not log in daily reduces the 60/month MC insertion by a singificant amount.

In retrospect, if less than 5% of the playerbase logs in daily, the entry of 60 coins in the game is a mirage, a non-existant thing. So lets say the game receives on average 15-20 coins a month per active player. and only 1 or 2 of those coins end up on the trading post, there will be a significant climb in value.

And as a person who will need a lot of these coins, he can not do anything to increase the pool of mystic coins. Ectoplasms can be farmed, T6 leathers can be farmed. Mystic Coins cannot be farmed, its existence is capped at 60 per month per acount giving all existing acounts log in every of the 30 days. Which means the supply can only go DOWN, while the demand keeps increasing

i have 56 mystic coins, and i have no idea what to do with them, 77s is just too low to sell on the TP i’d barely make 40 gold, and apparently they have a lot of utility that i’m yet unaware of so i don’t understand the concern behind coin prices

ShoknAwe.1602:

i have 56 mystic coins, and i have no idea what to do with them, 77s is just too low to sell on the TP i’d barely make 40 gold, and apparently they have a lot of utility that i’m yet unaware of so i don’t understand the concern behind coin prices

People want to get more of them faster so they don’t have to think of buying them to increase their current rate,

BlaqueFyre.5678:

ShoknAwe.1602:

i have 56 mystic coins, and i have no idea what to do with them, 77s is just too low to sell on the TP i’d barely make 40 gold, and apparently they have a lot of utility that i’m yet unaware of so i don’t understand the concern behind coin prices

People want to get more of them faster so they don’t have to think of buying them to increase their current rate,

They’re already ridiculously expensive. if I had to buy 250 Mystic Coins, I would sooner wait [250/60] months than that I’d be able to get that much money… okay… I’m exaggerating a bit, but you get my point.

Plus, the supply CANNOT increase. So buying more will only deplete the store faster further increasing the price.

They have a lot of utility yea, you should look up the recipes on wiki. And they keep adding more of those recipes

For example, the new Legendaries cost 77 clovers and a Mystic Tribute.
that is (with absolute luck) at least 77 mystic coins + 250 more. And thats just 1 recipe

ShoknAwe.1602:

i have 56 mystic coins, and i have no idea what to do with them, 77s is just too low to sell on the TP i’d barely make 40 gold, and apparently they have a lot of utility that i’m yet unaware of so i don’t understand the concern behind coin prices

Coins are used in legendary weapons/backpieces as well as Specialization weapon collections, nightfury and a bunch of other high priced skins (eg. the Crossing, Mad Moon etc).

Basically in terms of fashion wars 2, they are the end game skins.

It’s a concern for Veteran players mostly since most of us don’t have any coins to spare at all as we’ve used them over the years. It’s very easy to run out once you start making anything seriously and the acquisition rate is mostly static.

I have multiple accounts I login daily for mystic coins, still not enough for me to bother selling them.

Amaimon.7823:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

ShoknAwe.1602:

i have 56 mystic coins, and i have no idea what to do with them, 77s is just too low to sell on the TP i’d barely make 40 gold, and apparently they have a lot of utility that i’m yet unaware of so i don’t understand the concern behind coin prices

People want to get more of them faster so they don’t have to think of buying them to increase their current rate,

They’re already ridiculously expensive. if I had to buy 250 Mystic Coins, I would sooner wait [250/60] months than that I’d be able to get that much money… okay… I’m exaggerating a bit, but you get my point.

Plus, the supply CANNOT increase. So buying more will only deplete the store faster further increasing the price.

They have a lot of utility yea, you should look up the recipes on wiki. And they keep adding more of those recipes

For example, the new Legendaries cost 77 clovers and a Mystic Tribute.
that is (with absolute luck) at least 77 mystic coins + 250 more. And thats just 1 recipe

Again it’s not feasible to think you will need to be able to craft all the recipes that require Mystic Coins, and again their are other avenues for the Legendary Items to get Clovers that do not require Mystic Coins at all so you can hoard you Coins for other skins. Yes the New Legendaries require 250 coins no matter what but meh it’s a non issue since PU don’t even have to do anything to get the coins besides log in, absolutely zero effort for an important item,

Also you can receive anywhere from 5 or 50 of them from crafting Mystic Clovers, also from Fractal Daily, Mystic Forge related dailies boxes. So no there doesn’t need to be an increase in acquisition methods.

Malediktus.3740:

Even if mystic coins would be 10g each it would be a fair price since they are only needed to get prestige items

Today I learned of a new prestigious item that I didn’t even know I had. Yeah, I can totally see how Mystic Coins are fine /s

Bellatrixa.3546:

Malediktus.3740:

Even if mystic coins would be 10g each it would be a fair price since they are only needed to get prestige items

Today I learned of a new prestigious item that I didn’t even know I had. Yeah, I can totally see how Mystic Coins are fine /s

I see you don’t grasp the concept of supply and demand……

Here is only 1 Mango Pie tray on the TP the seller wants 100g but people are only willing to pay 15g the that will never sell. Just saying that could be a remnant from when that recipe was first introduced and the seller never took it down since he would probably lose more gold than it is actually worth from the TP taxes

BlaqueFyre.5678:

I see you don’t grasp the concept of supply and demand……

Not at all. It’s more pointing out that recipes like that are in no way prestigious and still require Mystic Coins. Those trays of pies come in quite handy on a weekly basis for my guild during guild rushes. It tickles me that single recipe is more expensive than more useful recipes for feasts. If I had the Mystic Coins to spare, I’d be more than happy to stick up a recipe myself for half the price and see how long it takes to sell. Sadly I need them for Mystic weapons and the like. Again, the coins used in creating those recipes could and imo should be substituted for something else.

Bellatrixa.3546:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

I see you don’t grasp the concept of supply and demand……

Not at all. It’s more pointing out that recipes like that are in no way prestigious and still require Mystic Coins. Those trays of pies come in quite handy on a weekly basis for my guild during guild rushes. It tickles me that single recipe is more expensive than more useful recipes for feasts. If I had the Mystic Coins to spare, I’d be more than happy to stick up a recipe myself for half the price and see how long it takes to sell. Sadly I need them for Mystic weapons and the like. Again, the coins used in creating those recipes could and imo should be substituted for something else.

Again that’s just the recipe, and you can make it for approx 42g if you buy all 50 Mystic Coins, since trays/Feasts have exponential value compared to any other food buff in game that is a small price, there is absolutely no reason to buy the Recipe on the TP since the recipes do not require any crafting profession to make.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t see what the problem is here. It’s exactly as JS and Anet said … price will raise to the point where demand and supply are more inline. It’s not speculation that markets will adjust … it’s part of their very nature to do so.

QQing that Mystic coins are ‘expensive’ and claiming that it’s because there is something ‘wrong’ in general with Anet’s approach to let the markets work themselves out shows you don’t know what you are talking about. When the price is ‘right’, people will release their coins to ease the demand.

There are multiple ways the ANet can solve this “problem”, although the problem is different depending upon who you talk to.

ANet’s current approach is “hands off” which is a bit ambiguous — without knowledge of the “hands on” approach, we really don’t know what is different. Of course you can guess, but that’s not factual in any way.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Bellatrixa.3546:

Malediktus.3740:

Even if mystic coins would be 10g each it would be a fair price since they are only needed to get prestige items

Today I learned of a new prestigious item that I didn’t even know I had. Yeah, I can totally see how Mystic Coins are fine /s

I see you don’t grasp the concept of supply and demand……

Here is only 1 Mango Pie tray on the TP the seller wants 100g but people are only willing to pay 15g the that will never sell. Just saying that could be a remnant from when that recipe was first introduced and the seller never took it down since he would probably lose more gold than it is actually worth from the TP taxes

I see you don’t grasp the problem here…….

Some people in this thread are arguing that MC prices are fine because they are only used for luxury cosmetic items, which is not true. There are hundreds of recipes that are not related to legendary weapons that require MC. MC are not only used for “endgame” cosmetic items, so any argument that relies on that is bogus, and that is all she was trying to point out to @Malediktus

But back to your arguments, I don’t think that incoming supply is sufficient. And this isn’t an issue of whether players should be forced to buy MC off the TP to craft anything or not. But rather this relies on how many MC are needed in recipes (not just legendaries either). Each account, if they login every day will get 20 MC from login rewards. I never see very many MC dailies, so add another 5 on top of that for 25 MC per account that logs on every day per month entering the game.

Now lets just look at all of the weapon recipes that require MC (so not leg armor, no feasts of food, no armor boxes, none of the other recipes that I missed. Just weapons). Almost 90 non legendary weapons require MC to craft. Counting legendaries, that gives us ~120 weapon recipes that require MC. Lets assume that the average # of MC needed per recipe is 75 (should be about this much, but I won’t do the math right now, can do later if you really want me to).

That means that, on average, for each weapon that requires MC, you need 3 months worth of players’ daily logins to craft. And that is a weapon only 1 person will receive. HoT legendaries require 10 months worth of daily players’ login each, not counting the clovers. Think about completionists, or people who are AP hunters.

If someone wants even a third of those skins, they suddenly will require ~40 * 75 = 3000 MC, or 120 months worth of players’ daily logins. 10 years worth of players’ daily logins to craft 1 / 3 of the skins that require MC for a single player to obtain.

Now account for people who are true completionists and will strive to get all of those skins. Account for the sink that leg armor will be. Account for the sink that GH are.

I do not believe that there are enough MC entering the game because of this. There are just too many things that require them, and in large quantities no less.

Strictly controlling the supply of a commodity, such as mystic coins, entering the market is pretty far from, “hands off,” in my opinion.

Bellatrixa.3546:

Malediktus.3740:

Even if mystic coins would be 10g each it would be a fair price since they are only needed to get prestige items

Today I learned of a new prestigious item that I didn’t even know I had. Yeah, I can totally see how Mystic Coins are fine /s

Indeed. As a fan of trays and pots, I’m saddened that I can’t make Trays of Roasted Artichokes without paying over the odds.

@OriOri

There more than just Mystic Forge Dailies and daily log in to get mystic Coins they are based on RNG like everything else in game that’s used in recipes, crafting Mystic Clovers can Net you 5 or 50 coins, as well as The Daily Fractal tier Chests provide an Avenue to obtain the coins. These are fine as is.

Yes other items require them but most are prestigious or have exponential value those feast recipes give unlimited food buffs for 5 minutes that is huge just to craft the recipe, it’s not like they are needed to make the actual food, and if you try to use the whole well all kinds of Guild hall upgrades require them then you should factor in that Guilds are normally more than 1 person and you can ask for the coins to be donated.

Bellatrixa.3546:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

I see you don’t grasp the concept of supply and demand……

Not at all. It’s more pointing out that recipes like that are in no way prestigious and still require Mystic Coins. Those trays of pies come in quite handy on a weekly basis for my guild during guild rushes. It tickles me that single recipe is more expensive than more useful recipes for feasts. If I had the Mystic Coins to spare, I’d be more than happy to stick up a recipe myself for half the price and see how long it takes to sell. Sadly I need them for Mystic weapons and the like. Again, the coins used in creating those recipes could and imo should be substituted for something else.

https://www.gw2bltc.com/en/item/12587-Tray-of-Mango-Pies

So without the recipe and just buying the trays off the TP will suffer you the indignity of about 5s paid more as opposed to being able to make it through the forge.

Even if you got the recipes at 15g, and that means the seller is selling it at a horrific loss excluding coins, it would take you 300 trays just to break even. And this is exactly why I never went for the recipes even when coins were cheap.

And this is just through buy orders. Sure, you can get the materials for cheaper using buy orders too, but rarely are you going to see a large disparity between buy and sell you will with feasts than with materials. In this case, you will usually be able to get mango pie trays with 9s-10s buy orders while it’s very hard to get -33% off the materials. In practice the margins are razor thin for food, and thus the main people that would benefit from cheaper recipes are those really focused speculators that really know their stuff for the TP, so it’s not like I’ll have much sympathy that they’re having trouble anyways.

You’ll probably need a more expensive tray to really make any semblance of a difference.

So let’s post some legit examples of feasts people actually use that are somewhat costly. But in the end though, I think it’s a huge fuss to save pennies.
https://www.gw2bltc.com/en/item/12637-Feast-of-Orrian-Steak-Frittes
https://www.gw2bltc.com/en/item/12725-Pot-of-Lemongrass-Poultry-Soup

Bellatrixa.3546:

Malediktus.3740:

Even if mystic coins would be 10g each it would be a fair price since they are only needed to get prestige items

Today I learned of a new prestigious item that I didn’t even know I had. Yeah, I can totally see how Mystic Coins are fine /s

Those recipes are luxury items. You can buy the ready made food items (or just personal food) on the trading post if you are too poor to afford the recipes.