Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

Shockwave.1230:

Vayne.8563:

Shockwave.1230:

Vayne.8563:

The only question is how the expansion content will be delivered. I believe they’re working on at least 1 new profession and 1 new race. I believe they’re working on a skill pack. I believe they’re working on new areas to explore.

Will it be a boxed expansion? That I can’t say. Do I firmly believe this stuff is being worked on to be delivered into the game somehow.

I really do.

I cant see them implementing this content slowly, via numerous smaller updates. If you release a full boxed expansion, it creates hype and the more hype the bigger the draw.

Now if they were to released a full box worth of expansion just for buying the base game… Would that create more hype than a b2p expansion to the point it’d be worth doing? Idk.

From what I can tell, and this is ALL speculation. I don’t have proof. I have no links…

Anet wants to provide these updates through the living story, not a boxed update. The idea is that we then have all players on the same page, since everyone can use them. They believe keeping everyone playing is better than breaking them up by having one group buy the expansion, which would create a rift in the player base. Again just an opinion not fact.

I believe NcSoft, who has to shoulder the financial risk wants an actual tried and true expansion which is considered less risky.

Originally NcSoft said their would be an expansion. Then they said, we’ll see. They’re looking at numbers. If the sales of gems gets too small, then an actual boxed expansion will be how the content is released.

If the gem store sales remain strong enough, then we’ll probably see another delivery method.

The thing about doing the living story is it doesn’t create excitement for NC Soft or investors. Which may be a problem.

But also as a player my experience has been disappointment numerous times with the living story releases, but the last 3 I’ve been content with. And the very last one I was very happy with.

Because I feel like ANet feels that people feel that relates until recently have been underwhelming, I think they would like to do a free release expansion. But they’d have to justify that to NC Soft somehow, and I don’t know how they’d do it.

Maybe some kind of compromise that is similar to if you missed a living story journal. But how do you market that properly to get new players involved too? Do a relaunch of GW2?

So how does this change when Anet says a new race or new profession is coming? No one will come to try it? No one will buy the game when they see we’re getting stuff like that for free?

I don’t have an answer to those questions, but I think Anet is banking in the idea that if they can provide for free what other’s charge for, that will start catching on and snowballing. I don’t know if they’re right. I don’t even know if I’m right about that’s their thinking. lol

I guess I was mixing up thoughts. Really it goes back to releasing it all at once for that overwhelming feeling it creates and the hype that goes along with it, or releasing in smaller increments.

I don’t know the answers either. It’s just fun to speculate. Personally I prefer that overwhelming exhilarating feeling of having so much unknown content and not knowing where to start over something like the past 2 years of skill/trait/story releases. But hopefully ANet does both, because I actually do like the frequent releases too.

Vayne, buddy, take it easy.

NCSOFT has announced expansions twice before and was denied. KDB Daewoo once again doesn’t mention it in any of the four reports they released after the one you linked.

Those other two articles were from May 2013.

Do I think they have a race and/or a profession or two ready to pull out in case of a dire turn of income, sure. It’ll be stupid not to think they have a group working on such a contingency. But the professions can’t come out of nowhere. There has to be a story element involved.

Honestly, calm down, they’re just baiting you.

Precisely, the revenue is on a positive scale because of the China release. Otherwise, as we could see from various data published by ANet prior to release, the revenue was going dramatically down in the EU and NA. That’s a fact.

China lives on its own, i.e. what we had here 2 years ago – which was a bliss. Now, it’s quite on the opposite, but we will see. If the game “develops” the way it does atm, I don’t think it would be profitable by the end of the next year. I’m just speculating, the time will tell.

Behellagh.1468:

Vayne, buddy, take it easy.

NCSOFT has announced expansions twice before and was denied. KDB Daewoo once again doesn’t mention it in any of the four reports they released after the one you linked.

Those other two articles were from May 2013.

Do I think they have a race and/or a profession or two ready to pull out in case of a dire turn of income, sure. It’ll be stupid not to think they have a group working on such a contingency. But the professions can’t come out of nowhere. There has to be a story element involved.

Honestly, calm down, they’re just baiting you.

I’m not sure why you think I’m not calm. lol

As I said, let’s take a look at 2015 and see what happens. Obviously if Anet never releases skills, races, or classes, the game is going to see less people. That’s logical. If you were Anet wouldn’t you be working on these things?

It’s just a matter of timing.

Yep, looking forward to another Gamescom incident next year.

BlueZone.4236:

Many people may believe they haven’t released an expansion worth of content (I’m one of them), but I can believe they’ve spent an expansion’s worth of development work.

Heck, the new trading post took nearly two years to make.

This I do believe as well. Only problem with that if it’s true would be that Anet seems to be lying about because they keep saying that on the back they are working on many things and it’s still on the table how they would release it. Was is a strange statement (to still make) because if they would have gone for the LS approach by spreading it out overtime it should have been put in already and if they would go for the Expansions they would need to have all that stuff still waiting / in development to release as an expansion and if that’s the case but they would then decide to go for the LS approach it would mean it would still need a year to release all the content.

Basically, that statement could make sense back when they said it first 6 months after release but by now it does not makes sense anymore while they still seem to hold on to that statement.

Either way I think the work that has gone into the LS over the last 1,5 year is likely similar to that going into an expansion but the result content wise is not.

after read all these comments i feel my english has been improved …..thanks for the rewrite tho…kitten i should have learn english better to play gw2

BlueZone.4236:

Yep, looking forward to another Gamescom incident next year.

what was the gamecom incident?

Glory.1493:

BlueZone.4236:

Yep, looking forward to another Gamescom incident next year.

what was the gamecom incident?

Building fan disgruntlment mixed with previous ANet silence about content followed by an interview at gamescom which led to SAB being poorly communicated as a low priority item, which caused lots of backlash from fans over the Internet and possibly other mediums.

Shockwave.1230:

Glory.1493:

BlueZone.4236:

Yep, looking forward to another Gamescom incident next year.

what was the gamecom incident?

Building fan disgruntlment mixed with previous ANet silence about content followed by an interview at gamescom which led to SAB being poorly communicated as a low priority item, which caused lots of backlash from fans over the Internet and possibly other mediums.

Followed by a PR statement and CDI to appease the fans, then people saying ANet is working on an expansion (big projects cooking and everything’s still on the table, etc), and the cycle begins again.

It’s amazing how people are willing to say that Anet lies about this and NCsoft lies about that, but they’re perfectly willing to accept at face value the concept that someone was working on the trading post for two years, without even questioning the comment.

Did the person who said this actually say it was the only thing they were working on for two years. Did they say that during the time of working on it it was a priority at any time. Were they working on it in the background while doing a dozen other things.

I had a novel that took me 25 years to write…but I wasn’t writing it for 25 years. Working on something for two years, doesn’t necessarily mean what some are implying it means. It’s at the very least open to interpretation.

Steakface.3781:

The game is declining and will continue to do so.

So far we don’t have too much in the way of evidence (beyond the anecdotal) for this. I guess based on the opinions voiced on the forums, personally not sure how reliable it is (although this discussion has been had more than once).

Windsagio.1340:

I’m used to forums being all armchair designers, but now they’re all armchair buisness development specialists too?

Jip. We’re master designers, developers, marketing gurus, captains of industries and world level intelligences :P

Serophous.9085:

Secondly, while pve is getting a story, the rest of the game is practically still where it was two years ago. The dungeon system needs updating (too many currencies, not very rewarding), karma needs a new purpose, and spvp needs a new mode.

WvW has at least gotten some map updates, orb mechanic brought back in a new way, seasons, updated achieves and rewards, a new (though fail) map, but the core issue of points and organizing (albeit getting COLORS now, but no improved functionality) still remains.

Well I will agree that some parts of the game have been somewhat neglected. Although in the case of WvW the solution is a bit more tricky, adding more maps would only disadvantage smaller servers who barely have the player base to fight WvW on four fronts. Adding more things to capture to present maps provides the same issue of disadvantaging smaller servers.
The fix some of the issues with WvW isn’t as simply has adding a new map or tweaking a few things here and there.

Dungeons however could do with a few more tweaks (no more stacking! no more stacking!).

CureForLiving.5360:

Steakface.3781:

The game is declining and will continue to do so.

So far we don’t have too much in the way of evidence (beyond the anecdotal) for this. I guess based on the opinions voiced on the forums, personally not sure how reliable it is (although this discussion has been had more than once).

Windsagio.1340:

I’m used to forums being all armchair designers, but now they’re all armchair buisness development specialists too?

Jip. We’re master designers, developers, marketing gurus, captains of industries and world level intelligences :P

Serophous.9085:

Secondly, while pve is getting a story, the rest of the game is practically still where it was two years ago. The dungeon system needs updating (too many currencies, not very rewarding), karma needs a new purpose, and spvp needs a new mode.

WvW has at least gotten some map updates, orb mechanic brought back in a new way, seasons, updated achieves and rewards, a new (though fail) map, but the core issue of points and organizing (albeit getting COLORS now, but no improved functionality) still remains.

Well I will agree that some parts of the game have been somewhat neglected. Although in the case of WvW the solution is a bit more tricky, adding more maps would only disadvantage smaller servers who barely have the player base to fight WvW on four fronts. Adding more things to capture to present maps provides the same issue of disadvantaging smaller servers.
The fix some of the issues with WvW isn’t as simply has adding a new map or tweaking a few things here and there.

Dungeons however could do with a few more tweaks (no more stacking! no more stacking!).

We have evidence, you just fail to acknowledge it.

Just google financial reports for NCSoft company for 2013 and 2014. You will see that the revenue of GW2 in the West ( EU + NA ) is steadily declining. There was even a period when the revenue for EU fell for over 40%.

Stop denying the fact, people, that GW2 indeed has got some major trouble in the EU and NA.

China is a separate thing.

Vayne.8563:

Behellagh.1468:

Vayne, buddy, take it easy.

NCSOFT has announced expansions twice before and was denied. KDB Daewoo once again doesn’t mention it in any of the four reports they released after the one you linked.

Those other two articles were from May 2013.

Do I think they have a race and/or a profession or two ready to pull out in case of a dire turn of income, sure. It’ll be stupid not to think they have a group working on such a contingency. But the professions can’t come out of nowhere. There has to be a story element involved.

Honestly, calm down, they’re just baiting you.

I’m not sure why you think I’m not calm. lol

As I said, let’s take a look at 2015 and see what happens. Obviously if Anet never releases skills, races, or classes, the game is going to see less people. That’s logical. If you were Anet wouldn’t you be working on these things?

It’s just a matter of timing.

A lot of people who are ‘defending’ Anet with many of these things do say “lets wait for this, lets wait for that” as you know because you have said it many times before yourself.

When after 6 months Anet announced they would not release an expansion if the LS would work out many people said ‘lets wait until GW2 is one year old’. When we where at 1 year many people still complained about that and included that the LS was not living up to being expansion-like. The ’ defenders’ then said “Anet promised to do it better’s, lets wait till we see more of the LS”. Then we had to wait to the 1,5 year mark then people had to wait till a next patch, then people had to wait till the end of season one, then people had to wait till the average time other mmo’s released expansions, then we had to wait till the 2 year mark or wait until the same time after release WoW got there first expansion and now you say we have to wait till the end of 2015?

Well it’s nice that the waiting steps seem to be increasing but as you might see many people are tired of waiting. And with every ‘wait’ that does not result in the expectation you lose players. Funny thing is.. it’s very likely at some point they will get an expansion (or the game might simply die) so eventually you will be right as long as you wait long enough. But many people are tired of waiting.

This game was released as B2P and looking at GW1 I expected an expansion about every year. That would mean we would have a second expansion about now however the first expansion has not even been announced yet. By the end of 2015 I would have expected to have the third expansion. The thing I did not expect wash cash-shop related stuff influencing the game negatively however I got it just the other way around. They did not release expansions and to pay that we did get the cash-shop related influence on the game.

So now I am waiting and hoping on the moment they change there model back to a true B2P model.

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Behellagh.1468:

Vayne, buddy, take it easy.

NCSOFT has announced expansions twice before and was denied. KDB Daewoo once again doesn’t mention it in any of the four reports they released after the one you linked.

Those other two articles were from May 2013.

Do I think they have a race and/or a profession or two ready to pull out in case of a dire turn of income, sure. It’ll be stupid not to think they have a group working on such a contingency. But the professions can’t come out of nowhere. There has to be a story element involved.

Honestly, calm down, they’re just baiting you.

I’m not sure why you think I’m not calm. lol

As I said, let’s take a look at 2015 and see what happens. Obviously if Anet never releases skills, races, or classes, the game is going to see less people. That’s logical. If you were Anet wouldn’t you be working on these things?

It’s just a matter of timing.

A lot of people who are ‘defending’ Anet with many of these things do say “lets wait for this, lets wait for that” as you know because you have said it many times before yourself.

When after 6 months Anet announced they would not release an expansion if the LS would work out many people said ‘lets wait until GW2 is one year old’. When we where at 1 year many people still complained about that and included that the LS was not living up to being expansion-like. The ’ defenders’ then said “Anet promised to do it better’s, lets wait till we see more of the LS”. Then we had to wait to the 1,5 year mark then people had to wait till a next patch, then people had to wait till the end of season one, then people had to wait till the average time other mmo’s released expansions, then we had to wait till the 2 year mark or wait until the same time after release WoW got there first expansion and now you say we have to wait till the end of 2015?

Well it’s nice that the waiting steps seem to be increasing but as you might see many people are tired of waiting. And with every ‘wait’ that does not result in the expectation you lose players. Funny thing is.. it’s very likely at some point they will get an expansion (or the game might simply die) so eventually you will be right as long as you wait long enough. But many people are tired of waiting.

This game was released as B2P and looking at GW1 I expected an expansion about every year. That would mean we would have a second expansion about now however the first expansion has not even been announced yet. By the end of 2015 I would have expected to have the third expansion. The thing I did not expect wash cash-shop related stuff influencing the game negatively however I got it just the other way around. They did not release expansions and to pay that we did get the cash-shop related influence on the game.

So now I am waiting and hoping on the moment they change there model back to a true B2P model.

Hope springs eternal, but it’s never going to happen. And when I say never, I really believe that. Even subscription games have cash shops now.

As for people getting tired of waiting….okay.

You may have noticed a few MMOs have come out since Guild Wars 2 and none of them are doing particularly well. I’m wondering why that is. Could it be it’s easy to say you’re going to make a great MMO but it’s harder than actually making it?

If you don’t want to believe stuff is being worked on, it’s certainly your prerogative.

But there’s no evidence either way that’s not cirumstantial.

Vayne.8563:

It’s amazing how people are willing to say that Anet lies about this and NCsoft lies about that, but they’re perfectly willing to accept at face value the concept that someone was working on the trading post for two years, without even questioning the comment.

Did the person who said this actually say it was the only thing they were working on for two years. Did they say that during the time of working on it it was a priority at any time. Were they working on it in the background while doing a dozen other things.

I had a novel that took me 25 years to write…but I wasn’t writing it for 25 years. Working on something for two years, doesn’t necessarily mean what some are implying it means. It’s at the very least open to interpretation.

Of course not. Whatever else took priority has been released, or perhaps other stuff got chucked in the back burner when it tried to take priority.
We already know Kate did some work on the wardrobe.

It still doesn’t change the fact it required programmer(s) to gut the old trading post browser engine and stick in a new one. And that is a lot of work.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2fhpny/investigative_research_about_the_trading_post/

Vayne.8563:

If you don’t want to believe stuff is being worked on, it’s certainly your prerogative.

Everyone knows they’re working on stuff. Look at what they’ve produced over the past 2 years. Expect more like that.
Hoping they’re got some secret slaves working above and beyond on an expansion, though? Highly doubtful. You can feel how burnt out the developers are through their content.
I’ll eat my hat if I’m wrong about an expansion.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

It’s amazing how people are willing to say that Anet lies about this and NCsoft lies about that, but they’re perfectly willing to accept at face value the concept that someone was working on the trading post for two years, without even questioning the comment.

Did the person who said this actually say it was the only thing they were working on for two years. Did they say that during the time of working on it it was a priority at any time. Were they working on it in the background while doing a dozen other things.

I had a novel that took me 25 years to write…but I wasn’t writing it for 25 years. Working on something for two years, doesn’t necessarily mean what some are implying it means. It’s at the very least open to interpretation.

Of course not. Whatever else took priority has been released, or perhaps other stuff got chucked in the back burner when it tried to take priority.
We already know Kate did some work on the wardrobe.

It still doesn’t change the fact it required programmer(s) to gut the old trading post browser engine and stick in a new one. And that is a lot of work.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2fhpny/investigative_research_about_the_trading_post/

Vayne.8563:

If you don’t want to believe stuff is being worked on, it’s certainly your prerogative.

Everyone knows they’re working on stuff. Look at what they’ve produced over the past 2 years. Expect more like that.
Hoping they’re got some secret slaves working above and beyond on an expansion, though? Highly doubtful. You can feel how burnt out the developers are through their content.
I’ll eat my hat if I’m wrong about an expansion.

So to be clear, you don’t believe they’re working on a race or a profession?

Corpus Christi.2057:

CureForLiving.5360:

Steakface.3781:

The game is declining and will continue to do so.

So far we don’t have too much in the way of evidence (beyond the anecdotal) for this. I guess based on the opinions voiced on the forums, personally not sure how reliable it is (although this discussion has been had more than once).

Windsagio.1340:

I’m used to forums being all armchair designers, but now they’re all armchair buisness development specialists too?

Jip. We’re master designers, developers, marketing gurus, captains of industries and world level intelligences :P

Serophous.9085:

Secondly, while pve is getting a story, the rest of the game is practically still where it was two years ago. The dungeon system needs updating (too many currencies, not very rewarding), karma needs a new purpose, and spvp needs a new mode.

WvW has at least gotten some map updates, orb mechanic brought back in a new way, seasons, updated achieves and rewards, a new (though fail) map, but the core issue of points and organizing (albeit getting COLORS now, but no improved functionality) still remains.

Well I will agree that some parts of the game have been somewhat neglected. Although in the case of WvW the solution is a bit more tricky, adding more maps would only disadvantage smaller servers who barely have the player base to fight WvW on four fronts. Adding more things to capture to present maps provides the same issue of disadvantaging smaller servers.
The fix some of the issues with WvW isn’t as simply has adding a new map or tweaking a few things here and there.

Dungeons however could do with a few more tweaks (no more stacking! no more stacking!).

We have evidence, you just fail to acknowledge it.

Just google financial reports for NCSoft company for 2013 and 2014. You will see that the revenue of GW2 in the West ( EU + NA ) is steadily declining. There was even a period when the revenue for EU fell for over 40%.

Stop denying the fact, people, that GW2 indeed has got some major trouble in the EU and NA.

China is a separate thing.

Write here revenues of all quarters since GW2 released and THEN you might have the case, or not.

China is completely separate thing. But what it DOES is ADDING unknown amount of money to reported revenues.

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

It’s amazing how people are willing to say that Anet lies about this and NCsoft lies about that, but they’re perfectly willing to accept at face value the concept that someone was working on the trading post for two years, without even questioning the comment.

Did the person who said this actually say it was the only thing they were working on for two years. Did they say that during the time of working on it it was a priority at any time. Were they working on it in the background while doing a dozen other things.

I had a novel that took me 25 years to write…but I wasn’t writing it for 25 years. Working on something for two years, doesn’t necessarily mean what some are implying it means. It’s at the very least open to interpretation.

Of course not. Whatever else took priority has been released, or perhaps other stuff got chucked in the back burner when it tried to take priority.
We already know Kate did some work on the wardrobe.

It still doesn’t change the fact it required programmer(s) to gut the old trading post browser engine and stick in a new one. And that is a lot of work.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2fhpny/investigative_research_about_the_trading_post/

Vayne.8563:

If you don’t want to believe stuff is being worked on, it’s certainly your prerogative.

Everyone knows they’re working on stuff. Look at what they’ve produced over the past 2 years. Expect more like that.
Hoping they’re got some secret slaves working above and beyond on an expansion, though? Highly doubtful. You can feel how burnt out the developers are through their content.
I’ll eat my hat if I’m wrong about an expansion.

So to be clear, you don’t believe they’re working on a race or a profession?

It’s on the table, ie. most likely no, not at this time or any time soon.

MikaHR.1978:

Corpus Christi.2057:

CureForLiving.5360:

Steakface.3781:

The game is declining and will continue to do so.

So far we don’t have too much in the way of evidence (beyond the anecdotal) for this. I guess based on the opinions voiced on the forums, personally not sure how reliable it is (although this discussion has been had more than once).

Windsagio.1340:

I’m used to forums being all armchair designers, but now they’re all armchair buisness development specialists too?

Jip. We’re master designers, developers, marketing gurus, captains of industries and world level intelligences :P

Serophous.9085:

Secondly, while pve is getting a story, the rest of the game is practically still where it was two years ago. The dungeon system needs updating (too many currencies, not very rewarding), karma needs a new purpose, and spvp needs a new mode.

WvW has at least gotten some map updates, orb mechanic brought back in a new way, seasons, updated achieves and rewards, a new (though fail) map, but the core issue of points and organizing (albeit getting COLORS now, but no improved functionality) still remains.

Well I will agree that some parts of the game have been somewhat neglected. Although in the case of WvW the solution is a bit more tricky, adding more maps would only disadvantage smaller servers who barely have the player base to fight WvW on four fronts. Adding more things to capture to present maps provides the same issue of disadvantaging smaller servers.
The fix some of the issues with WvW isn’t as simply has adding a new map or tweaking a few things here and there.

Dungeons however could do with a few more tweaks (no more stacking! no more stacking!).

We have evidence, you just fail to acknowledge it.

Just google financial reports for NCSoft company for 2013 and 2014. You will see that the revenue of GW2 in the West ( EU + NA ) is steadily declining. There was even a period when the revenue for EU fell for over 40%.

Stop denying the fact, people, that GW2 indeed has got some major trouble in the EU and NA.

China is a separate thing.

Write here revenues of all quarters since GW2 released and THEN you might have the case, or not.

China is completely separate thing. But what it DOES is ADDING unknown amount of money to reported revenues.

The burden of proof rests on the disproving party, i.e. you.

I won’t be digging it up for people who willingly deny something that has been posted on these forums on numerous occasions, which is the very reason why the majority writes what the person above stated, i.e. that the game has troubles.

PS As I am a kind person, I decided to google something for you. As you can see, the decline of GW2 is stronger in EU than it is in NA. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-02-14-guild-wars-2-in-steep-decline-in-weak-q4-for-ncsoft

GW2 income in millions of South Korean Won.

3Q12 – 45,841
4Q12 – 119,013
1Q13 – 36,382
2Q13 – 28,899
3Q13 – 24,481
4Q13 – 33,555
1Q14 – 25,142
2Q14 – 22,214

Note that changes in income may not be as bad if converted to USD. The exchange rate to KrW has fluctuated 15.9% during that time.

Are the earnings going down? Yes.

Is it at a point that they are terrible? No. Still #3 at NCSOFT after Lineage and WildStar.

Do we have any idea how much income ANet is getting from China for GW2? No.

Am I surprised this is hitting the fan 3+ weeks since those numbers came out and first talked about here? Yep.

If this game was a subscription based game then the $20.96 – $22.21 million USD for 2Q14 would be equivalent to 465,000 to 493,000 monthly subscribers at $15 a month which is not shabby with the exception of comparing it to WoW. And it won’t have the numbers of a true F2P because of the up front cost, even in China where B2P was unheard of until GW2.

In 2013 the game earned roughly $113 million USD. If it was a subscription based game that would put us at #5 between SWTOR and LOTRO. That’s not shabby at all.

We already got an expansion, it’s called the Living Story. If you like it or not, that’s a different matter, but it is an expansion.
I don’t think we will see any paid expansion soon. It seems all resources are going towards the Living Story, and I don’t thnk they have time to work on anything else.

Behellagh.1468:

GW2 income in millions of South Korean Won.

3Q12 – 45,841
4Q12 – 119,013
1Q13 – 36,382
2Q13 – 28,899
3Q13 – 24,481
4Q13 – 33,555
1Q14 – 25,142
2Q14 – 22,214

Note that changes in income may not be as bad if converted to USD. The exchange rate to KrW has fluctuated 15.9% during that time.

Are the earnings going down? Yes.

Is it at a point that they are terrible? No. Still #3 at NCSOFT after Lineage and WildStar.

Do we have any idea how much income ANet is getting from China for GW2? No.

Am I surprised this is hitting the fan 3+ weeks since those numbers came out and first talked about here? Yep.

If this game was a subscription based game then the $20.96 – $22.21 million USD for 2Q14 would be equivalent to 465,000 to 493,000 monthly subscribers at $15 a month which is not shabby with the exception of comparing it to WoW. And it won’t have the numbers of a true F2P because of the up front cost, even in China where B2P was unheard of until GW2.

In 2013 the game earned roughly $113 million USD. If it was a subscription based game that would put us at #5 between SWTOR and LOTRO. That’s not shabby at all.

Thank you for posting these numbers.

I hope that the guy who asked for them above is satisfied with them.

Davey.7029:

We already got an expansion, it’s called the Living Story. If you like it or not, that’s a different matter, but it is an expansion.
I don’t think we will see any paid expansion soon. It seems all resources are going towards the Living Story, and I don’t thnk they have time to work on anything else.

If the Living Story is all they can actually work into and where majority of the resources are going to, then, oh Lord…

Corpus Christi.2057:

If the Living Story is all they can actually work into and where majority of the resources are going to, then, oh Lord…

If they made 1 billion dollars , then they could offer 2 ‘’raid tier’’ like wow in the next x-pack and a open pvp area :P

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Corpus Christi.2057:

If the Living Story is all they can actually work into and where majority of the resources are going to, then, oh Lord…

If they made 1 billion dollars , then they could offer 2 ‘’raid tier’’ like wow in the next x-pack and a open pvp area :P

Haha, then… maybe yeah!:D

Corpus Christi.2057:

MikaHR.1978:

Corpus Christi.2057:

CureForLiving.5360:

Steakface.3781:

The game is declining and will continue to do so.

So far we don’t have too much in the way of evidence (beyond the anecdotal) for this. I guess based on the opinions voiced on the forums, personally not sure how reliable it is (although this discussion has been had more than once).

Windsagio.1340:

I’m used to forums being all armchair designers, but now they’re all armchair buisness development specialists too?

Jip. We’re master designers, developers, marketing gurus, captains of industries and world level intelligences :P

Serophous.9085:

Secondly, while pve is getting a story, the rest of the game is practically still where it was two years ago. The dungeon system needs updating (too many currencies, not very rewarding), karma needs a new purpose, and spvp needs a new mode.

WvW has at least gotten some map updates, orb mechanic brought back in a new way, seasons, updated achieves and rewards, a new (though fail) map, but the core issue of points and organizing (albeit getting COLORS now, but no improved functionality) still remains.

Well I will agree that some parts of the game have been somewhat neglected. Although in the case of WvW the solution is a bit more tricky, adding more maps would only disadvantage smaller servers who barely have the player base to fight WvW on four fronts. Adding more things to capture to present maps provides the same issue of disadvantaging smaller servers.
The fix some of the issues with WvW isn’t as simply has adding a new map or tweaking a few things here and there.

Dungeons however could do with a few more tweaks (no more stacking! no more stacking!).

We have evidence, you just fail to acknowledge it.

Just google financial reports for NCSoft company for 2013 and 2014. You will see that the revenue of GW2 in the West ( EU + NA ) is steadily declining. There was even a period when the revenue for EU fell for over 40%.

Stop denying the fact, people, that GW2 indeed has got some major trouble in the EU and NA.

China is a separate thing.

Write here revenues of all quarters since GW2 released and THEN you might have the case, or not.

China is completely separate thing. But what it DOES is ADDING unknown amount of money to reported revenues.

The burden of proof rests on the disproving party, i.e. you.

I won’t be digging it up for people who willingly deny something that has been posted on these forums on numerous occasions, which is the very reason why the majority writes what the person above stated, i.e. that the game has troubles.

PS As I am a kind person, I decided to google something for you. As you can see, the decline of GW2 is stronger in EU than it is in NA. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-02-14-guild-wars-2-in-steep-decline-in-weak-q4-for-ncsoft

That entire article doesn’t revolve around GW2. EU sales for NCSOFT as a whole was down. Sure the bulk of that was due to GW2 moving to it’s “subscription-free model” and the decline was greater percentage wise in the EU than NA but that’s more to do with NCSOFT’s EU’s reported income being just GW and GW2 for that quarter. They’ve licensed both AION and Lineage 2 in EU to third parties long before then and their income is booked as royalties. In NA, NCSOFT still runs AION and Lineage 2 themselves so GW2 isn’t as big of a piece of pie as it is in the EU.

Behellagh.1468:

GW2 income in millions of South Korean Won.

3Q12 – 45,841
4Q12 – 119,013
1Q13 – 36,382
2Q13 – 28,899
3Q13 – 24,481
4Q13 – 33,555
1Q14 – 25,142
2Q14 – 22,214

Note that changes in income may not be as bad if converted to USD. The exchange rate to KrW has fluctuated 15.9% during that time.

Are the earnings going down? Yes.

Is it at a point that they are terrible? No. Still #3 at NCSOFT after Lineage and WildStar.

Do we have any idea how much income ANet is getting from China for GW2? No.

Am I surprised this is hitting the fan 3+ weeks since those numbers came out and first talked about here? Yep.

If this game was a subscription based game then the $20.96 – $22.21 million USD for 2Q14 would be equivalent to 465,000 to 493,000 monthly subscribers at $15 a month which is not shabby with the exception of comparing it to WoW. And it won’t have the numbers of a true F2P because of the up front cost, even in China where B2P was unheard of until GW2.

In 2013 the game earned roughly $113 million USD. If it was a subscription based game that would put us at #5 between SWTOR and LOTRO. That’s not shabby at all.

Yah, im still looking for that “40%” drop lol.

And finally everyone can see revenue is pretty stable.

It isnt behind Wildstar – GW2 release quarter 119m Wildstar 38m.

The table you linked is estimates (except for NCSoft which publishes actal numbers) and most of those have no base in any actual data (lot of stuff from that site has been proven severly off the mark) and are pretty much another set of random interent numbers.

Behellagh.1468:

Corpus Christi.2057:

MikaHR.1978:

Corpus Christi.2057:

CureForLiving.5360:

Steakface.3781:

The game is declining and will continue to do so.

So far we don’t have too much in the way of evidence (beyond the anecdotal) for this. I guess based on the opinions voiced on the forums, personally not sure how reliable it is (although this discussion has been had more than once).

Windsagio.1340:

I’m used to forums being all armchair designers, but now they’re all armchair buisness development specialists too?

Jip. We’re master designers, developers, marketing gurus, captains of industries and world level intelligences :P

Serophous.9085:

Secondly, while pve is getting a story, the rest of the game is practically still where it was two years ago. The dungeon system needs updating (too many currencies, not very rewarding), karma needs a new purpose, and spvp needs a new mode.

WvW has at least gotten some map updates, orb mechanic brought back in a new way, seasons, updated achieves and rewards, a new (though fail) map, but the core issue of points and organizing (albeit getting COLORS now, but no improved functionality) still remains.

Well I will agree that some parts of the game have been somewhat neglected. Although in the case of WvW the solution is a bit more tricky, adding more maps would only disadvantage smaller servers who barely have the player base to fight WvW on four fronts. Adding more things to capture to present maps provides the same issue of disadvantaging smaller servers.
The fix some of the issues with WvW isn’t as simply has adding a new map or tweaking a few things here and there.

Dungeons however could do with a few more tweaks (no more stacking! no more stacking!).

We have evidence, you just fail to acknowledge it.

Just google financial reports for NCSoft company for 2013 and 2014. You will see that the revenue of GW2 in the West ( EU + NA ) is steadily declining. There was even a period when the revenue for EU fell for over 40%.

Stop denying the fact, people, that GW2 indeed has got some major trouble in the EU and NA.

China is a separate thing.

Write here revenues of all quarters since GW2 released and THEN you might have the case, or not.

China is completely separate thing. But what it DOES is ADDING unknown amount of money to reported revenues.

The burden of proof rests on the disproving party, i.e. you.

I won’t be digging it up for people who willingly deny something that has been posted on these forums on numerous occasions, which is the very reason why the majority writes what the person above stated, i.e. that the game has troubles.

PS As I am a kind person, I decided to google something for you. As you can see, the decline of GW2 is stronger in EU than it is in NA. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-02-14-guild-wars-2-in-steep-decline-in-weak-q4-for-ncsoft

That entire article doesn’t revolve around GW2. EU sales for NCSOFT as a whole was down. Sure the bulk of that was due to GW2 moving to it’s “subscription-free model” and the decline was greater percentage wise in the EU than NA but that’s more to do with NCSOFT’s EU’s reported income being just GW and GW2 for that quarter. They’ve licensed both AION and Lineage 2 in EU to third parties long before then and their income is booked as royalties. In NA, NCSOFT still runs AION and Lineage 2 themselves so GW2 isn’t as big of a piece of pie as it is in the EU.

Of course it doesn’t, it is clearly stated in the article itself.

Corpus Christi.2057:

MikaHR.1978:

Corpus Christi.2057:

CureForLiving.5360:

Steakface.3781:

The game is declining and will continue to do so.

So far we don’t have too much in the way of evidence (beyond the anecdotal) for this. I guess based on the opinions voiced on the forums, personally not sure how reliable it is (although this discussion has been had more than once).

Windsagio.1340:

I’m used to forums being all armchair designers, but now they’re all armchair buisness development specialists too?

Jip. We’re master designers, developers, marketing gurus, captains of industries and world level intelligences :P

Serophous.9085:

Secondly, while pve is getting a story, the rest of the game is practically still where it was two years ago. The dungeon system needs updating (too many currencies, not very rewarding), karma needs a new purpose, and spvp needs a new mode.

WvW has at least gotten some map updates, orb mechanic brought back in a new way, seasons, updated achieves and rewards, a new (though fail) map, but the core issue of points and organizing (albeit getting COLORS now, but no improved functionality) still remains.

Well I will agree that some parts of the game have been somewhat neglected. Although in the case of WvW the solution is a bit more tricky, adding more maps would only disadvantage smaller servers who barely have the player base to fight WvW on four fronts. Adding more things to capture to present maps provides the same issue of disadvantaging smaller servers.
The fix some of the issues with WvW isn’t as simply has adding a new map or tweaking a few things here and there.

Dungeons however could do with a few more tweaks (no more stacking! no more stacking!).

We have evidence, you just fail to acknowledge it.

Just google financial reports for NCSoft company for 2013 and 2014. You will see that the revenue of GW2 in the West ( EU + NA ) is steadily declining. There was even a period when the revenue for EU fell for over 40%.

Stop denying the fact, people, that GW2 indeed has got some major trouble in the EU and NA.

China is a separate thing.

Write here revenues of all quarters since GW2 released and THEN you might have the case, or not.

China is completely separate thing. But what it DOES is ADDING unknown amount of money to reported revenues.

The burden of proof rests on the disproving party, i.e. you.

I won’t be digging it up for people who willingly deny something that has been posted on these forums on numerous occasions, which is the very reason why the majority writes what the person above stated, i.e. that the game has troubles.

PS As I am a kind person, I decided to google something for you. As you can see, the decline of GW2 is stronger in EU than it is in NA. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-02-14-guild-wars-2-in-steep-decline-in-weak-q4-for-ncsoft

Of course you wont, now that numbers are posted you dont have a point any more so you can stop the charade.

Well WoW numbers can be guessed at since Act-Bliz does publish income from PC subscription income in their quarterly and annual reports.

And no. GW2 had one month in 3Q12 and Wildstar had one month 2Q14. So you compare our 45,841 to their 28,048 (in million KrW).

Behellagh.1468:

Well WoW numbers can be guessed at since Act-Bliz does publish income from PC subscription income in their quarterly and annual reports.
And no. GW2 had one month in 3Q12 and Wildstar had one month 2Q14. So you compare our 45,841 to their 28,048 (in million KrW).

Yeah, WoW, NCSoft games and EvE, rest is guesstimate as good as anyones on teh old ’net. And not even a good ones.

Note that “experts” didnt even notice half of those games arent even sub based. Thats ought to tell you their “expertise”

And no, youre wrong, Wildstar had preorders and reelase in 1 quarter, so if you add 45+119 and the deduce like 40ish for 1 extra month you end up with 119-ish for GW2 (preorders+release month). Anyway, WS is not even in ballpark to GW2. It actually has to survive to 2 years mark yet

Apples to apples please.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

A lot of people who are ‘defending’ Anet with many of these things do say “lets wait for this, lets wait for that” as you know because you have said it many times before yourself.

When after 6 months Anet announced they would not release an expansion if the LS would work out many people said ‘lets wait until GW2 is one year old’. When we where at 1 year many people still complained about that and included that the LS was not living up to being expansion-like. The ’ defenders’ then said “Anet promised to do it better’s, lets wait till we see more of the LS”. Then we had to wait to the 1,5 year mark then people had to wait till a next patch, then people had to wait till the end of season one, then people had to wait till the average time other mmo’s released expansions, then we had to wait till the 2 year mark or wait until the same time after release WoW got there first expansion and now you say we have to wait till the end of 2015?

Well it’s nice that the waiting steps seem to be increasing but as you might see many people are tired of waiting. And with every ‘wait’ that does not result in the expectation you lose players. Funny thing is.. it’s very likely at some point they will get an expansion (or the game might simply die) so eventually you will be right as long as you wait long enough. But many people are tired of waiting.

This game was released as B2P and looking at GW1 I expected an expansion about every year. That would mean we would have a second expansion about now however the first expansion has not even been announced yet. By the end of 2015 I would have expected to have the third expansion. The thing I did not expect wash cash-shop related stuff influencing the game negatively however I got it just the other way around. They did not release expansions and to pay that we did get the cash-shop related influence on the game.

So now I am waiting and hoping on the moment they change there model back to a true B2P model.

Hope springs eternal, but it’s never going to happen. And when I say never, I really believe that. Even subscription games have cash shops now.

As for people getting tired of waiting….okay.

You may have noticed a few MMOs have come out since Guild Wars 2 and none of them are doing particularly well. I’m wondering why that is. Could it be it’s easy to say you’re going to make a great MMO but it’s harder than actually making it?

If you don’t want to believe stuff is being worked on, it’s certainly your prerogative.

But there’s no evidence either way that’s not cirumstantial.

Oow a cash-shop is one. Focusing on the cash-shop is something completely different. GW2 can have a cash-shop and sell additional character slots there just as a total make-over kit and name-changer and many server transfers or account merging and that sort of out-game stuff.

I would even be ok with it if they would sell 5 mini’s and and 3 skins (I would prefer they didn’t).

Now that is ‘having a cash-shop’ however what they are doing now in order to generate there main income worth it is focusing on it.
I don’t know how big the change is we will get that but GW1 did got big with it so if there current approach fails who knows, they might turn back to a true B2P model.

“If you don’t want to believe stuff is being worked on, it’s certainly your prerogative.”

I think you misunderstand that. I didn’t say they are not working on stuff. I think they are. What I say is that for over 1,5 year now they are telling the same story that they are working on stuff but are not sure if they release it as an expansion or during the Living Story. However we have already completed one complete LS season so that stuff they where working on back that should already be in the game released during that LS if that was the approach they choose to go for or they should have saved it all up for an expansion and then that should be known by now.

You see the LS is already running for 1,5 year so that decision has to been made a long time ago seeing as how you can go back in the time to release it during the LS we already had.

And if they made the decision to go for an expansion you would think they would have told us by now. It’s more likely they did put much of it in the LS but people did not see it as ‘expansion-like’ content. No matter what is may be, the statement that they have things they work on in the background but they do not yet know how to release that sort of stuff does not make sense any more. They probably made the decision to release in in the LS but of course can still choose to go another way in the future with new content. But it’s unlikely the content they where talking about 1,5 year ago is not yet in the game (assuming we wn’t get an expansion any time soon).

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

It’s amazing how people are willing to say that Anet lies about this and NCsoft lies about that, but they’re perfectly willing to accept at face value the concept that someone was working on the trading post for two years, without even questioning the comment.

Did the person who said this actually say it was the only thing they were working on for two years. Did they say that during the time of working on it it was a priority at any time. Were they working on it in the background while doing a dozen other things.

I had a novel that took me 25 years to write…but I wasn’t writing it for 25 years. Working on something for two years, doesn’t necessarily mean what some are implying it means. It’s at the very least open to interpretation.

Of course not. Whatever else took priority has been released, or perhaps other stuff got chucked in the back burner when it tried to take priority.
We already know Kate did some work on the wardrobe.

It still doesn’t change the fact it required programmer(s) to gut the old trading post browser engine and stick in a new one. And that is a lot of work.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2fhpny/investigative_research_about_the_trading_post/

Vayne.8563:

If you don’t want to believe stuff is being worked on, it’s certainly your prerogative.

Everyone knows they’re working on stuff. Look at what they’ve produced over the past 2 years. Expect more like that.
Hoping they’re got some secret slaves working above and beyond on an expansion, though? Highly doubtful. You can feel how burnt out the developers are through their content.
I’ll eat my hat if I’m wrong about an expansion.

So to be clear, you don’t believe they’re working on a race or a profession?

That’s not the same as working in the background on stuff they will then release as an expansion.. I mean it might be the case if they change there approach to releasing content in the future. But while they say it’s still on the table to truth seems to be they made the decision to go for the LS approach and might change there approach in the future.

But yeah they might be working on that. Then again Colin said professions are the lowest on the list because of balancing problems. He did say that a long time ago so they might be working in that now but we have also not yet seen things higher on the list like guild halls. And of course they could have shifted priorities. But with what with know professions are still lowest on the list.

I guess I’m in the minority of people that thoroughly enjoys EoTM. Not because I think it is great WvW, but it’s a nice grind for loot/xp/karma with the occasional WvW battle for extra fun. I get that a lot of people are against trains, but seriously some people enjoy that content. Some days I want to get on and mindlessly grind while listening to music. EoTM is great for that. I prefer that over farming dungeons, and in EoTM I can make 5g+/hr, plus get lots of ranks in.

It’s also a good place for aspiring commanders to practice their leadership.

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

It’s amazing how people are willing to say that Anet lies about this and NCsoft lies about that, but they’re perfectly willing to accept at face value the concept that someone was working on the trading post for two years, without even questioning the comment.

Did the person who said this actually say it was the only thing they were working on for two years. Did they say that during the time of working on it it was a priority at any time. Were they working on it in the background while doing a dozen other things.

I had a novel that took me 25 years to write…but I wasn’t writing it for 25 years. Working on something for two years, doesn’t necessarily mean what some are implying it means. It’s at the very least open to interpretation.

Of course not. Whatever else took priority has been released, or perhaps other stuff got chucked in the back burner when it tried to take priority.
We already know Kate did some work on the wardrobe.

It still doesn’t change the fact it required programmer(s) to gut the old trading post browser engine and stick in a new one. And that is a lot of work.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2fhpny/investigative_research_about_the_trading_post/

Vayne.8563:

If you don’t want to believe stuff is being worked on, it’s certainly your prerogative.

Everyone knows they’re working on stuff. Look at what they’ve produced over the past 2 years. Expect more like that.
Hoping they’re got some secret slaves working above and beyond on an expansion, though? Highly doubtful. You can feel how burnt out the developers are through their content.
I’ll eat my hat if I’m wrong about an expansion.

So to be clear, you don’t believe they’re working on a race or a profession?

That’s not the same as working in the background on stuff they will then release as an expansion.. I mean it might be the case if they change there approach to releasing content in the future. But while they say it’s still on the table to truth seems to be they made the decision to go for the LS approach and might change there approach in the future.

But yeah they might be working on that. Then again Colin said professions are the lowest on the list because of balancing problems. He did say that a long time ago so they might be working in that now but we have also not yet seen things higher on the list like guild halls. And of course they could have shifted priorities. But with what with know professions are still lowest on the list.

I’m not sure where you saw Colin say professions are lowest on the list, because I’m pretty sure he never said that.

MikaHR.1978:

Note that “experts” didnt even notice half of those games arent even sub based. Thats ought to tell you their “expertise”

And no, youre wrong, Wildstar had preorders and reelase in 1 quarter, so if you add 45+119 and the deduce like 40ish for 1 extra month you end up with 119-ish for GW2 (preorders+release month). Anyway, WS is not even in ballpark to GW2. It actually has to survive to 2 years mark yet

Apples to apples please.

I don’t know how you get more Apples to Apples than the quarterly statements. GW2 went live Aug 28th, 2012 so 34 days for 3rd quarter sales ending Sept 30th. WildStar went live June 3rd, 2014 so 28 days for 2nd quarter sales ending June 30th. Both had just as much time for preorders.

As for some of those games aren’t sub-based. They are all, just not everywhere and they include games with a Hybrid business model (ie optional subscription).

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

Note that “experts” didnt even notice half of those games arent even sub based. Thats ought to tell you their “expertise”

And no, youre wrong, Wildstar had preorders and reelase in 1 quarter, so if you add 45+119 and the deduce like 40ish for 1 extra month you end up with 119-ish for GW2 (preorders+release month). Anyway, WS is not even in ballpark to GW2. It actually has to survive to 2 years mark yet

Apples to apples please.

I don’t know how you get more Apples to Apples than the quarterly statements. GW2 went live Aug 28th, 2012 so 34 days for 3rd quarter sales ending Sept 30th. WildStar went live June 3rd, 2014 so 28 days for 2nd quarter sales ending June 30th. Both had just as much time for preorders.

As for some of those games aren’t sub-based. They are all, just not everywhere and they include games with a Hybrid business model (ie optional subscription).

Actual sales werent reported until next quarter and 45m is just for preorders.

SWTOR is F2P
LOTRO is F2P
RIFT is F2P
TERA is F2P
Aion is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
L2 is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
B&S is F2P or B2P in china afaik
Even WoW is not sub based in China heh, but thats another story alltogether (and why they are allowed to lump it with total subs)

game having some sort of alternate (optional) “subscription plan” doesnt make it sub based. What, now GW2 is sub based because it has “vip” option in China?

The only sub based games on that list are WoW, L1 and EvE. 3/10 for a “list of sub based games” lol

http://dulfy.net/2013/07/16/gw2-colin-johanson-livestream-transcript/

Q: What are your plans for future professions/races.

A: Races, no promises of which race to do first. New profession is a lot harder, a lot of the core archtype is covered. We might do additional weapons/skills for current professions before putting in new professions. We have 8 now so if we want to do a new profession is it is probably a 3rd heavy armor to balance it out. New profession is probably the furthest thing out.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

It’s amazing how people are willing to say that Anet lies about this and NCsoft lies about that, but they’re perfectly willing to accept at face value the concept that someone was working on the trading post for two years, without even questioning the comment.

Did the person who said this actually say it was the only thing they were working on for two years. Did they say that during the time of working on it it was a priority at any time. Were they working on it in the background while doing a dozen other things.

I had a novel that took me 25 years to write…but I wasn’t writing it for 25 years. Working on something for two years, doesn’t necessarily mean what some are implying it means. It’s at the very least open to interpretation.

Of course not. Whatever else took priority has been released, or perhaps other stuff got chucked in the back burner when it tried to take priority.
We already know Kate did some work on the wardrobe.

It still doesn’t change the fact it required programmer(s) to gut the old trading post browser engine and stick in a new one. And that is a lot of work.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2fhpny/investigative_research_about_the_trading_post/

Vayne.8563:

If you don’t want to believe stuff is being worked on, it’s certainly your prerogative.

Everyone knows they’re working on stuff. Look at what they’ve produced over the past 2 years. Expect more like that.
Hoping they’re got some secret slaves working above and beyond on an expansion, though? Highly doubtful. You can feel how burnt out the developers are through their content.
I’ll eat my hat if I’m wrong about an expansion.

So to be clear, you don’t believe they’re working on a race or a profession?

That’s not the same as working in the background on stuff they will then release as an expansion.. I mean it might be the case if they change there approach to releasing content in the future. But while they say it’s still on the table to truth seems to be they made the decision to go for the LS approach and might change there approach in the future.

But yeah they might be working on that. Then again Colin said professions are the lowest on the list because of balancing problems. He did say that a long time ago so they might be working in that now but we have also not yet seen things higher on the list like guild halls. And of course they could have shifted priorities. But with what with know professions are still lowest on the list.

I’m not sure where you saw Colin say professions are lowest on the list, because I’m pretty sure he never said that.

A (video) interview he did gave, but that was over a year ago.
Edit: Linked by BlueZone.4236. Thnx.

BlueZone.4236:

http://dulfy.net/2013/07/16/gw2-colin-johanson-livestream-transcript/

Q: What are your plans for future professions/races.

A: Races, no promises of which race to do first. New profession is a lot harder, a lot of the core archtype is covered. We might do additional weapons/skills for current professions before putting in new professions. We have 8 now so if we want to do a new profession is it is probably a 3rd heavy armor to balance it out. New profession is probably the furthest thing out.

Cool thanks for that. I saw it, but didn’t remember it.

MikaHR.1978:

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

Note that “experts” didnt even notice half of those games arent even sub based. Thats ought to tell you their “expertise”

And no, youre wrong, Wildstar had preorders and reelase in 1 quarter, so if you add 45+119 and the deduce like 40ish for 1 extra month you end up with 119-ish for GW2 (preorders+release month). Anyway, WS is not even in ballpark to GW2. It actually has to survive to 2 years mark yet

Apples to apples please.

I don’t know how you get more Apples to Apples than the quarterly statements. GW2 went live Aug 28th, 2012 so 34 days for 3rd quarter sales ending Sept 30th. WildStar went live June 3rd, 2014 so 28 days for 2nd quarter sales ending June 30th. Both had just as much time for preorders.

As for some of those games aren’t sub-based. They are all, just not everywhere and they include games with a Hybrid business model (ie optional subscription).

Actual sales werent reported until next quarter and 45m is just for preorders.

SWTOR is F2P
LOTRO is F2P
RIFT is F2P
TERA is F2P
Aion is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
L2 is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
B&S is F2P or B2P in china afaik
Even WoW is not sub based in China heh, but thats another story alltogether (and why they are allowed to lump it with total subs)

game having some sort of alternate (optional) “subscription plan” doesnt make it sub based. What, now GW2 is sub based because it has “vip” option in China?

The only sub based games on that list are WoW, L1 and EvE. 3/10 for a “list of sub based games” lol

Ah, no they were reported in the 3Q12 and 2Q14 quarterly reports for GW2 and WildStar respectively. You can look it up yourself at NCSOFT’s corporate website under IR earnings release.

SWTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
LOTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
RIFT is hybrid and was subscription only once
TERA is hybrid and was subscription only once
B&S like Lineage I, Lineage II and AION is subscription based in South Korea and several other areas in Asia.
Lineage II and AION were subscription based when they first came to the NA market and also embrace the hybrid model now in NA.

Like I said, if they offer a subscription VIP level and were once subscription or they are subscription somewhere else other than NA, it counts as a subscription game.

Labjax.2465:

tigirius.9014:

I call SWTOR a Freemium system because it forces players to buy. To me however GW2 has a similar system in place for new players that may not have endless hours to grind out enough gold to buy things they need to setup 1 much less multiple toons to catchup with friends, it’s cleverly disguised behind a conversion market system on purpose, so that people will think it’s an okay system to use.

If they removed for example the requirement to use gold for things like Sigils/Runes or the cost of traits it wouldn’t be as bad as it is but because it directly tied to progression and because so many people have issues with loot dropping the design becomes a serious issue.

Perhaps so. It is subtle though. I’m not one to greatly defend all of Anet’s F2P choices, but it seems to me that traits are an already-admitted mess that they would like to fix.

And as for Sigils/Runes, I don’t know what the answer is. One could argue that with Sigils, you can just buy the Major ones until you can afford the Superior version (which is something I’ve done before). But the Runes are not so simple because Superior has 6 slots and Major only has 4.

Maybe they should consider expanding some of the Major rune sets to 6 slot upgrades, only with a weaker set bonus overall. This might alleviate the issue you’re referring to.

Yes I think they should for example, last night I tried gathering the stuff I need for my alt to be level 80 so that I’d be prepared. I had a bit of gold that I had leftover from some gems I purchased some time ago to get this stuff going. So I tried to find runes that gave my toon the ability to move faster outside of combat. 8 gold each on traveler. It’s ridiculous. And what’s more is there aren’t that many with a speed bonus, every single one with a speed bonus has a massive gold stamp on it.

They really need to find a way of allowing players to move more quickly especially since we have no mounts without the need to spend enormous amounts of gold on runes. If at the very least would could buy the materials to make these runes directly instead of relying on RNG from crafting bags it would help tremendously at the very least it would give alts and new players a change to make their toons move more quickly without filing for bankruptcy in the process.

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

Note that “experts” didnt even notice half of those games arent even sub based. Thats ought to tell you their “expertise”

And no, youre wrong, Wildstar had preorders and reelase in 1 quarter, so if you add 45+119 and the deduce like 40ish for 1 extra month you end up with 119-ish for GW2 (preorders+release month). Anyway, WS is not even in ballpark to GW2. It actually has to survive to 2 years mark yet

Apples to apples please.

I don’t know how you get more Apples to Apples than the quarterly statements. GW2 went live Aug 28th, 2012 so 34 days for 3rd quarter sales ending Sept 30th. WildStar went live June 3rd, 2014 so 28 days for 2nd quarter sales ending June 30th. Both had just as much time for preorders.

As for some of those games aren’t sub-based. They are all, just not everywhere and they include games with a Hybrid business model (ie optional subscription).

Actual sales werent reported until next quarter and 45m is just for preorders.

SWTOR is F2P
LOTRO is F2P
RIFT is F2P
TERA is F2P
Aion is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
L2 is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
B&S is F2P or B2P in china afaik
Even WoW is not sub based in China heh, but thats another story alltogether (and why they are allowed to lump it with total subs)

game having some sort of alternate (optional) “subscription plan” doesnt make it sub based. What, now GW2 is sub based because it has “vip” option in China?

The only sub based games on that list are WoW, L1 and EvE. 3/10 for a “list of sub based games” lol

Ah, no they were reported in the 3Q12 and 2Q14 quarterly reports for GW2 and WildStar respectively. You can look it up yourself at NCSOFT’s corporate website under IR earnings release.

SWTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
LOTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
RIFT is hybrid and was subscription only once
TERA is hybrid and was subscription only once
B&S like Lineage I, Lineage II and AION is subscription based in South Korea and several other areas in Asia.
Lineage II and AION were subscription based when they first came to the NA market and also embrace the hybrid model now in NA.

Like I said, if they offer a subscription VIP level and were once subscription or they are subscription somewhere else other than NA, it counts as a subscription game.

Not to mention that almost all of these games require a purchase or a sub in order to unlock certain things that are considered normal features for most games like talents/traits, bag space, the ability to quick travel etc so basically they are forcing people to at least sub once which imo is no different than forcing players to buy their traits or get enough gold together to get the enchants they need to enhance their gear at level 80 properly. This is not a simple B2P game if gold were not tied to directly to progression there would be no issue but it is for alts and for new players.

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

Note that “experts” didnt even notice half of those games arent even sub based. Thats ought to tell you their “expertise”

And no, youre wrong, Wildstar had preorders and reelase in 1 quarter, so if you add 45+119 and the deduce like 40ish for 1 extra month you end up with 119-ish for GW2 (preorders+release month). Anyway, WS is not even in ballpark to GW2. It actually has to survive to 2 years mark yet

Apples to apples please.

I don’t know how you get more Apples to Apples than the quarterly statements. GW2 went live Aug 28th, 2012 so 34 days for 3rd quarter sales ending Sept 30th. WildStar went live June 3rd, 2014 so 28 days for 2nd quarter sales ending June 30th. Both had just as much time for preorders.

As for some of those games aren’t sub-based. They are all, just not everywhere and they include games with a Hybrid business model (ie optional subscription).

Actual sales werent reported until next quarter and 45m is just for preorders.

SWTOR is F2P
LOTRO is F2P
RIFT is F2P
TERA is F2P
Aion is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
L2 is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
B&S is F2P or B2P in china afaik
Even WoW is not sub based in China heh, but thats another story alltogether (and why they are allowed to lump it with total subs)

game having some sort of alternate (optional) “subscription plan” doesnt make it sub based. What, now GW2 is sub based because it has “vip” option in China?

The only sub based games on that list are WoW, L1 and EvE. 3/10 for a “list of sub based games” lol

Ah, no they were reported in the 3Q12 and 2Q14 quarterly reports. You can look it up yourself at NCSOFT’s corporate website under IR earnings release.

SWTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
LOTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
RIFT is hybrid and was subscription only once
B&S like Lineage I, Lineage II and AION is subscription based in South Korea and several other areas in Asia.
Lineage II and AION were subscription based when they first came to the NA market.

Like I said, if they offer a subscription VIP level and were once subscription or they are subscription somewhere else other than NA, it counts as a subscription game.

Yeah but no. But nevermind, next quarter will show much beter picture.

redefining what sub based means….rofl Even their own companies call them F2P and mention “moving from sub based model to F2P model”

And i must correct myself, L1 is F2P with optional sub too.

So 2/10.

But yeah, their numbers are as sloppy as their reporting.

tigirius.9014:

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

Note that “experts” didnt even notice half of those games arent even sub based. Thats ought to tell you their “expertise”

And no, youre wrong, Wildstar had preorders and reelase in 1 quarter, so if you add 45+119 and the deduce like 40ish for 1 extra month you end up with 119-ish for GW2 (preorders+release month). Anyway, WS is not even in ballpark to GW2. It actually has to survive to 2 years mark yet

Apples to apples please.

I don’t know how you get more Apples to Apples than the quarterly statements. GW2 went live Aug 28th, 2012 so 34 days for 3rd quarter sales ending Sept 30th. WildStar went live June 3rd, 2014 so 28 days for 2nd quarter sales ending June 30th. Both had just as much time for preorders.

As for some of those games aren’t sub-based. They are all, just not everywhere and they include games with a Hybrid business model (ie optional subscription).

Actual sales werent reported until next quarter and 45m is just for preorders.

SWTOR is F2P
LOTRO is F2P
RIFT is F2P
TERA is F2P
Aion is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
L2 is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
B&S is F2P or B2P in china afaik
Even WoW is not sub based in China heh, but thats another story alltogether (and why they are allowed to lump it with total subs)

game having some sort of alternate (optional) “subscription plan” doesnt make it sub based. What, now GW2 is sub based because it has “vip” option in China?

The only sub based games on that list are WoW, L1 and EvE. 3/10 for a “list of sub based games” lol

Ah, no they were reported in the 3Q12 and 2Q14 quarterly reports for GW2 and WildStar respectively. You can look it up yourself at NCSOFT’s corporate website under IR earnings release.

SWTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
LOTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
RIFT is hybrid and was subscription only once
TERA is hybrid and was subscription only once
B&S like Lineage I, Lineage II and AION is subscription based in South Korea and several other areas in Asia.
Lineage II and AION were subscription based when they first came to the NA market and also embrace the hybrid model now in NA.

Like I said, if they offer a subscription VIP level and were once subscription or they are subscription somewhere else other than NA, it counts as a subscription game.

Not to mention that almost all of these games require a purchase or a sub in order to unlock certain things that are considered normal features for most games like talents/traits, bag space, the ability to quick travel etc so basically they are forcing people to at least sub once which imo is no different than forcing players to buy their traits or get enough gold together to get the enchants they need to enhance their gear at level 80 properly. This is not a simple B2P game if gold were not tied to directly to progression there would be no issue but it is for alts and for new players.

You mean those are exatcly like other F2P games where you have an option to drop some cash each month to ease “progression woes”.

MikaHR.1978:

tigirius.9014:

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

Note that “experts” didnt even notice half of those games arent even sub based. Thats ought to tell you their “expertise”

And no, youre wrong, Wildstar had preorders and reelase in 1 quarter, so if you add 45+119 and the deduce like 40ish for 1 extra month you end up with 119-ish for GW2 (preorders+release month). Anyway, WS is not even in ballpark to GW2. It actually has to survive to 2 years mark yet

Apples to apples please.

I don’t know how you get more Apples to Apples than the quarterly statements. GW2 went live Aug 28th, 2012 so 34 days for 3rd quarter sales ending Sept 30th. WildStar went live June 3rd, 2014 so 28 days for 2nd quarter sales ending June 30th. Both had just as much time for preorders.

As for some of those games aren’t sub-based. They are all, just not everywhere and they include games with a Hybrid business model (ie optional subscription).

Actual sales werent reported until next quarter and 45m is just for preorders.

SWTOR is F2P
LOTRO is F2P
RIFT is F2P
TERA is F2P
Aion is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
L2 is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
B&S is F2P or B2P in china afaik
Even WoW is not sub based in China heh, but thats another story alltogether (and why they are allowed to lump it with total subs)

game having some sort of alternate (optional) “subscription plan” doesnt make it sub based. What, now GW2 is sub based because it has “vip” option in China?

The only sub based games on that list are WoW, L1 and EvE. 3/10 for a “list of sub based games” lol

Ah, no they were reported in the 3Q12 and 2Q14 quarterly reports for GW2 and WildStar respectively. You can look it up yourself at NCSOFT’s corporate website under IR earnings release.

SWTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
LOTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
RIFT is hybrid and was subscription only once
TERA is hybrid and was subscription only once
B&S like Lineage I, Lineage II and AION is subscription based in South Korea and several other areas in Asia.
Lineage II and AION were subscription based when they first came to the NA market and also embrace the hybrid model now in NA.

Like I said, if they offer a subscription VIP level and were once subscription or they are subscription somewhere else other than NA, it counts as a subscription game.

Not to mention that almost all of these games require a purchase or a sub in order to unlock certain things that are considered normal features for most games like talents/traits, bag space, the ability to quick travel etc so basically they are forcing people to at least sub once which imo is no different than forcing players to buy their traits or get enough gold together to get the enchants they need to enhance their gear at level 80 properly. This is not a simple B2P game if gold were not tied to directly to progression there would be no issue but it is for alts and for new players.

You mean those are exatcly like other F2P games where you have an option to drop some cash each month to ease “progression woes”.

Yep which pretty much breaks the whole myth of this game being B2P which was my point exactly. It’s like that ruling in the UK recently where a judge made it illegal to call a game free to play or any variation thereof if at any time players are forced even indirectly to pay real money for the purpose of progression of any kind. That’s what people consider B2P you pay once to buy the game the rest is absolutely free until you purchase an expansion, it’s simply wrong in the case of this title. What’s worse is that people are actually trying to advocate for this kind of eastern style economy in other titles that are newly ported to the west as if they are the holy grail when nothing could be further from the truth and they actively attack anyone who says anything about how they are being taken advantage of, sound familiar?

tigirius.9014:

MikaHR.1978:

tigirius.9014:

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

Note that “experts” didnt even notice half of those games arent even sub based. Thats ought to tell you their “expertise”

And no, youre wrong, Wildstar had preorders and reelase in 1 quarter, so if you add 45+119 and the deduce like 40ish for 1 extra month you end up with 119-ish for GW2 (preorders+release month). Anyway, WS is not even in ballpark to GW2. It actually has to survive to 2 years mark yet

Apples to apples please.

I don’t know how you get more Apples to Apples than the quarterly statements. GW2 went live Aug 28th, 2012 so 34 days for 3rd quarter sales ending Sept 30th. WildStar went live June 3rd, 2014 so 28 days for 2nd quarter sales ending June 30th. Both had just as much time for preorders.

As for some of those games aren’t sub-based. They are all, just not everywhere and they include games with a Hybrid business model (ie optional subscription).

Actual sales werent reported until next quarter and 45m is just for preorders.

SWTOR is F2P
LOTRO is F2P
RIFT is F2P
TERA is F2P
Aion is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
L2 is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
B&S is F2P or B2P in china afaik
Even WoW is not sub based in China heh, but thats another story alltogether (and why they are allowed to lump it with total subs)

game having some sort of alternate (optional) “subscription plan” doesnt make it sub based. What, now GW2 is sub based because it has “vip” option in China?

The only sub based games on that list are WoW, L1 and EvE. 3/10 for a “list of sub based games” lol

Ah, no they were reported in the 3Q12 and 2Q14 quarterly reports for GW2 and WildStar respectively. You can look it up yourself at NCSOFT’s corporate website under IR earnings release.

SWTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
LOTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
RIFT is hybrid and was subscription only once
TERA is hybrid and was subscription only once
B&S like Lineage I, Lineage II and AION is subscription based in South Korea and several other areas in Asia.
Lineage II and AION were subscription based when they first came to the NA market and also embrace the hybrid model now in NA.

Like I said, if they offer a subscription VIP level and were once subscription or they are subscription somewhere else other than NA, it counts as a subscription game.

Not to mention that almost all of these games require a purchase or a sub in order to unlock certain things that are considered normal features for most games like talents/traits, bag space, the ability to quick travel etc so basically they are forcing people to at least sub once which imo is no different than forcing players to buy their traits or get enough gold together to get the enchants they need to enhance their gear at level 80 properly. This is not a simple B2P game if gold were not tied to directly to progression there would be no issue but it is for alts and for new players.

You mean those are exatcly like other F2P games where you have an option to drop some cash each month to ease “progression woes”.

Yep which pretty much breaks the whole myth of this game being B2P which was my point exactly. It’s like that ruling in the UK recently where a judge made it illegal to call a game free to play or any variation thereof if at any time players are forced even indirectly to pay real money for the purpose of progression of any kind. That’s what people consider B2P you pay once to buy the game the rest is absolutely free until you purchase an expansion, it’s simply wrong in the case of this title. What’s worse is that people are actually trying to advocate for this kind of eastern style economy in other titles that are newly ported to the west as if they are the holy grail when nothing could be further from the truth and they actively attack anyone who says anything about how they are being taken advantage of, sound familiar?

I’m still confused about what you have to buy to progress in this game.

tigirius.9014:

MikaHR.1978:

tigirius.9014:

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

Note that “experts” didnt even notice half of those games arent even sub based. Thats ought to tell you their “expertise”

And no, youre wrong, Wildstar had preorders and reelase in 1 quarter, so if you add 45+119 and the deduce like 40ish for 1 extra month you end up with 119-ish for GW2 (preorders+release month). Anyway, WS is not even in ballpark to GW2. It actually has to survive to 2 years mark yet

Apples to apples please.

I don’t know how you get more Apples to Apples than the quarterly statements. GW2 went live Aug 28th, 2012 so 34 days for 3rd quarter sales ending Sept 30th. WildStar went live June 3rd, 2014 so 28 days for 2nd quarter sales ending June 30th. Both had just as much time for preorders.

As for some of those games aren’t sub-based. They are all, just not everywhere and they include games with a Hybrid business model (ie optional subscription).

Actual sales werent reported until next quarter and 45m is just for preorders.

SWTOR is F2P
LOTRO is F2P
RIFT is F2P
TERA is F2P
Aion is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
L2 is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
B&S is F2P or B2P in china afaik
Even WoW is not sub based in China heh, but thats another story alltogether (and why they are allowed to lump it with total subs)

game having some sort of alternate (optional) “subscription plan” doesnt make it sub based. What, now GW2 is sub based because it has “vip” option in China?

The only sub based games on that list are WoW, L1 and EvE. 3/10 for a “list of sub based games” lol

Ah, no they were reported in the 3Q12 and 2Q14 quarterly reports for GW2 and WildStar respectively. You can look it up yourself at NCSOFT’s corporate website under IR earnings release.

SWTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
LOTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
RIFT is hybrid and was subscription only once
TERA is hybrid and was subscription only once
B&S like Lineage I, Lineage II and AION is subscription based in South Korea and several other areas in Asia.
Lineage II and AION were subscription based when they first came to the NA market and also embrace the hybrid model now in NA.

Like I said, if they offer a subscription VIP level and were once subscription or they are subscription somewhere else other than NA, it counts as a subscription game.

Not to mention that almost all of these games require a purchase or a sub in order to unlock certain things that are considered normal features for most games like talents/traits, bag space, the ability to quick travel etc so basically they are forcing people to at least sub once which imo is no different than forcing players to buy their traits or get enough gold together to get the enchants they need to enhance their gear at level 80 properly. This is not a simple B2P game if gold were not tied to directly to progression there would be no issue but it is for alts and for new players.

You mean those are exatcly like other F2P games where you have an option to drop some cash each month to ease “progression woes”.

Yep which pretty much breaks the whole myth of this game being B2P which was my point exactly. It’s like that ruling in the UK recently where a judge made it illegal to call a game free to play or any variation thereof if at any time players are forced even indirectly to pay real money for the purpose of progression of any kind. That’s what people consider B2P you pay once to buy the game the rest is absolutely free until you purchase an expansion, it’s simply wrong in the case of this title. What’s worse is that people are actually trying to advocate for this kind of eastern style economy in other titles that are newly ported to the west as if they are the holy grail when nothing could be further from the truth and they actively attack anyone who says anything about how they are being taken advantage of, sound familiar?

What exactly do you HAVE TO pay for to progress in GW2. Im curious, i have 11 80-ies and i didnt have to pay for anything? Elaborate on that, maybe i missed something progressing 11 characters to max level to completely progress without being forced to pay for anything.

And, just for record, nobody called GW2 F2P game, dont know where you got that.

AND i got much more of everything that i got for FREE in GW2 after the initial purchase than i got from all that wasted sub money since i strted playing MMOs in 2002. So yeah, theres that also.

But i agree, for instance, SWTOR has abbysmal F2P model thats based on just gambling boxes (its just a matter of time until taxman look into that) and recolored stuff AND buying freaking pieces of UI lol

As long as a F2P MMO was once a subscription only game and now offers an optional subscription plan to get access to the same things as before the game went F2P, at the same cost, it counts as a subscription game. You may not like that definition but that’s the definition the industry is using.

The true purpose is to have the F2P be an unlimited trial of an MMO with enough barriers that if a player truly like the game, they would be inclined to pay the $15 a month, less in bulk, than be nickeled and dimed the entire time.

Since Turbine demonstrated that this works, just about every MMO that was once subscription in NA has gone this route. None to my knowledge has gone from subscription to pure F2P, it would simply alienate their original paying customers. That’s why people are counting the days until ESO and WildStar does the same. I think SWTOR has the record at 9 months.