Guild Wars 2

I never got where the whole gamers sense of entitlement came from in the last few years. It went from every game having a sub, to people expecting their games to be free while also giving continuous updates for years (not to mention server hosting, support, advertising, ect.), and going up in arms if they companies try to charge them anything at all.

Seriously people, at the absolute lowest wage in the US, 15 bucks is 2 hours of a part time job per month. If you cant pay that to support a hobby that can take up 100 hours a month, then somethings wrong or youre under the age of 13 (and if you are just get good at begging your parents for it)

The game is owned by a publicly traded company and its goal is to maximize profits (as much as people seem to believe, its not a non-profit). If player retention isnt helping that because there is no sub, then it makes zero business sense to focus on that instead of microtransactions and small content updates.

So you can complain about not wanting to ever pay a sub fee, or you can complain about a lack of content, but if you complain about both at the same time then you need to take an econ 101 class or something

Sizer.5632:

I never got where the whole gamers sense of entitlement came from in the last few years. It went from every game having a sub, to people expecting their games to be free while also giving continuous updates for years (not to mention server hosting, support, advertising, ect.), and going up in arms if they companies try to charge them anything at all.

Seriously people, at the absolute lowest wage in the US, 15 bucks is 2 hours of a part time job per month. If you cant pay that to support a hobby that can take up 100 hours a month, then somethings wrong or youre under the age of 13 (and if you are just get good at begging your parents for it)

The game is owned by a publicly traded company and its goal is to maximize profits (as much as people seem to believe, its not a non-profit). If player retention isnt helping that because there is no sub, then it makes zero business sense to focus on that instead of microtransactions and small content updates.

So you can complain about not wanting to ever pay a sub fee, or you can complain about a lack of content, but if you complain about both at the same time then you need to take an econ 101 class or something

GW2 player base = one person.

It is also worth noting that the “entitlement” standard is a door that swings both ways.

We are as “entitled” to a production as much as the company is “entitled” to the money that allows a production. Let’s make sure this is clear.

I have played sub games, no thank you OP. Throwing money at the problem isn’t always the solution, but hey think what you like. Better yet, go back to that sub based game you think is so much better and leave us alone. Some of us like not being nickle and dimed for a game we’ve already purchased.

(I know someone’s going to throw the gemstore in my face regarding the nickle and diming thing, but guess what, purchasing from the gemstore isn’t required. It isn’t a monthly fee to access the game)

If GW2 ever goes subscription, I’ll be quitting. I just can’t justify a subscription fee, no matter how much I enjoy the game.

RoseofGilead.8907:

If GW2 ever goes subscription, I’ll be quitting. I just can’t justify a subscription fee, no matter how much I enjoy the game.

I would imagine if anything it would be an opt in program much like the royalty pass that China has rather than something that is mandatory which wouldn’t directly affect you anyways. (Before anyone starts, I am well aware that it was made clear that the VIP program would not make its literal appearance in the western client, key word here is literal)

There’s a lot of ways to disguise a monthly subscription program without well, stepping into that public pot hole. Example:

EDIT:

Now that I think of it, can you imagine a monthly care package that had the following?

- everlasting hair style kit
- everlasting black lion key
- everlasting transmutation stone
- everlasting boosters
- complementary dye packs
- access to royalty terrace

all rolled into a 800 gem monthly purchase? you’d make less per head but think of the amount of people who would buy into that.

A monthly duration “care package” with unlimited use consumables that last the entire month. I don’t know about you but an unlimited transmutation stone + hair makeover kit that lasts the entire month?

I’ll take 5.

Good point. Wow would be weaker than rift without gear progression. The fact that gw is thriving without it is a massive win for the mmo genre. The treadmill has to go.

Aarean.5398:

Good point. Wow would be weaker than rift without gear progression. The fact that gw is thriving without it is a massive win for the mmo genre. The treadmill has to go.

I wouldn’t call a decline in YoY revenue as reported from last quarter earnings thriving but we can agree that GW2 is still relevant at the very least.

Each purchased box product is a push forward. Wait till they get to the larger releases. I suspect a large influx of players when they finally delve into the crystal desert.

Vayne.8563:

I think that would be a grave mistake. Plenty of new content for people who like the type of content being offered. And no more buggy than most MMOs I’ve played.

I’m curious what other MMO you’ve played that has major bugs for so long.

TBH there is a ridiculous amount of bugs in the game that would hve been addressed in other MMOs about 20x faster.

Especially in a game that claims e-sports these should be 100% top priority immediate fixes over 2 years ago.

Immobilize bug – getting stuck for absolutely no reason, happens during combat and other actions.

The new teleport bug which I believe is actual a recurring old bug where you get sent back to your original position is quite hilarious indeed.. trolled.

I main thief but I’ve played warrior off and on during GW2 lifetime and still my sword 2 and greatsword 5 miss about 90% of the time unless the target is standing COMPLETELY still.

Taking fall damage while walking normally down steps or a small slope.. oops guess I tripped on my shoe lace. Taking fall damage and jumping afterwards cause you to continuously take fall damage multiple times.

These are honestly just a very few examples, there are tons more that still exist today since beta.

I’ve played a lot of MMO and seen a lot of bugs but none this detrimental to the game for so long and not even taken seriously by the devs. Most players have taken them as regular features because ANet never talks about them or takes action against these obvious BUGS/glitches.

It is quite simply a joke, but I’ve gotten used to them.. so has everyone else. You may not hear about them often but they clearly exist and are a problem from major to minor doesn’t matter the fact of the matter is they have been in game and reported since ALPHA.

I think if GW2 had a sub it would not change things because they cannot prioritize their issues and have no clue how to manage from what I’ve seen. LS being their only priority at all and everything else being completely ignored.. yeah so great.

if you dont like the game you can quit

Piratoz.8627:

Bandit.8279:

Hardly any new content?!!!!!!!!! look at what other Sub based MMO’s (looking at you WoW) put out in their first 2 years and GW2 is either on par with them or blows them out of the water. All for free!!

And if you think GW2 is exceptionally buggy then you must be new to the MMO genre. It’s about the same with any other MMO I have played. Especially with new patches.

I would disagree and call that cherrypicking. WoW has released a HUGE amount of content in its lifetime. Hell, between the time that guild wars 2 was released and now, WoW has released 2 full expansions complete with new continents, combat revamps, new skills, and new dungeons and raids.

so wrong. At this point in time, Blizzard released their first expansion 45 days ago. There were not 2 expansions after 2 years since launch of WoW.

eisberg.2379:

Piratoz.8627:

Bandit.8279:

Hardly any new content?!!!!!!!!! look at what other Sub based MMO’s (looking at you WoW) put out in their first 2 years and GW2 is either on par with them or blows them out of the water. All for free!!

And if you think GW2 is exceptionally buggy then you must be new to the MMO genre. It’s about the same with any other MMO I have played. Especially with new patches.

I would disagree and call that cherrypicking. WoW has released a HUGE amount of content in its lifetime. Hell, between the time that guild wars 2 was released and now, WoW has released 2 full expansions complete with new continents, combat revamps, new skills, and new dungeons and raids.

so wrong. At this point in time, Blizzard released their first expansion 45 days ago. There were not 2 expansions after 2 years.

Dat garrison system tho.

Bandit.8279:

Josh.5839:

Bandit.8279:

Hardly any new content?!!!!!!!!! look at what other Sub based MMO’s (looking at you WoW) put out in their first 2 years and GW2 is either on par with them or blows them out of the water. All for free!!

And if you think GW2 is exceptionally buggy then you must be new to the MMO genre. It’s about the same with any other MMO I have played. Especially with new patches.

In 2 yrs wow had an expansion not some gimmick LS
Every game is buggy, but anet takes forever to fix them.

“The game was released on November 23, 2004, on the 10th anniversary of the Warcraft franchise. The first expansion set of the game, The Burning Crusade, was released on January 16, 2007.” – Wikipedia

So about 2 years and 2 months and they were charging you about $180 a year for 2 years ($360) with no updates what-so-ever.

Yes, I think most of us want an expansion and if by this time next year we still have no news of one I might grab a pitchfork and join you. But for now they have been doing a good job pushing out content free of charge.

The great thing about no sub fee is if you want to take a break from the game you are not burning any money! Play something else and come back to unlock your LS. It’s a win-win. All my games are B2P and I love them that way.

To be fair, in the first 2 years, Blizzard added some content they couldn’t get finished before launch of the game that was basically for everyone. After that, they concentrated on making raid content that the vast majority of the players couldn’t/didn’t do. With a few exceptions, they basically did the same thing with Burning Crusades, very little content added for everyone, and mostly concentrated on Raid Content that the vast majority couldn’t/didn’t do.

That was pretty much their first 4 years.

kitten .9460:

Vayne.8563:

I think that would be a grave mistake. Plenty of new content for people who like the type of content being offered. And no more buggy than most MMOs I’ve played.

I’m curious what other MMO you’ve played that has major bugs for so long.

TBH there is a ridiculous amount of bugs in the game that would hve been addressed in other MMOs about 20x faster.

Especially in a game that claims e-sports these should be 100% top priority immediate fixes over 2 years ago.

Immobilize bug – getting stuck for absolutely no reason, happens during combat and other actions.

The new teleport bug which I believe is actual a recurring old bug where you get sent back to your original position is quite hilarious indeed.. trolled.

I main thief but I’ve played warrior off and on during GW2 lifetime and still my sword 2 and greatsword 5 miss about 90% of the time unless the target is standing COMPLETELY still.

Taking fall damage while walking normally down steps or a small slope.. oops guess I tripped on my shoe lace. Taking fall damage and jumping afterwards cause you to continuously take fall damage multiple times.

These are honestly just a very few examples, there are tons more that still exist today since beta.

I’ve played a lot of MMO and seen a lot of bugs but none this detrimental to the game for so long and not even taken seriously by the devs. Most players have taken them as regular features because ANet never talks about them or takes action against these obvious BUGS/glitches.

It is quite simply a joke, but I’ve gotten used to them.. so has everyone else. You may not hear about them often but they clearly exist and are a problem from major to minor doesn’t matter the fact of the matter is they have been in game and reported since ALPHA.

I think if GW2 had a sub it would not change things because they cannot prioritize their issues and have no clue how to manage from what I’ve seen. LS being their only priority at all and everything else being completely ignored.. yeah so great.

Warhammer, Age of Conan, DDO, Rift, Lotro, Perfect World (ye gads PW). They were all bug ridden and all of them had forums full of complaints.

Edit: AoC had a crashing bug for people with nvidia that wasn’t solved after years. A bug so bad that it made the entire game unplayable. I used to crash every ten minutes, even on low settings.

MrIllusion.5304:

Spawne.3128:

Aarean.5398:

Can we stop bringing up wow as a competitive example. The game is at 10 years now and still runs a crappy unengaging combat system where you spend 80% of the time staring at a hotbar. Gw2 doesnt need big revamps because the gameplay is extremely well structured as is. Thank god they dont have major class balance changes every couple of months like wow.

On top of this the content gw brings is a building journey, it doesnt release all the way to the climax like expansions in other games. You have to wait for big fights like the scarlet raid which beat the hell out of wows lame tank and spank raids with some specific boss mechanics to be aware of, which the addon system ruins by trivialising anyway.

Close the thread as its just devolving to a match of who can whine the loudest.

Stop bringing wow up as a competitive example? It has more regular players then GW2 has AND its 10 years old. If that doesn’t set the standard by which to be judged, I don’t know what does. The only thing WoW’s longevity proves is that blizzard knows how to build an MMO and keep it running, where as Anet does not.

In 2011 WoW had over 12 million ACTIVE subscribers, GW2 barely broke 450k in august of 2013 and hasnt even sold half of what WoW has in active subscriptions in overall copies sold.

Many MMOs have tried to copy WoW’s model but failed. GW2 is one of the few MMOs released in recent times that didn’t have to go through any major changes to payment model like LOTRO or DCUO did.

Even Blizzard’s next big MMO Project Titan got canned.

At this stage, WoW is more likely a fluke than a winning model.

I remember years ago, professional industry analysts said the same thing, that WoW success is a fluke, and that no other game will ever come close to match it. It was the right game to come out at the right time. If WoW didn’t exist right now, but was to release right now, it would not see the same success as it did when it released 10 years ago.

Spawne.3128:

Aarean.5398:

Can we stop bringing up wow as a competitive example. The game is at 10 years now and still runs a crappy unengaging combat system where you spend 80% of the time staring at a hotbar. Gw2 doesnt need big revamps because the gameplay is extremely well structured as is. Thank god they dont have major class balance changes every couple of months like wow.

On top of this the content gw brings is a building journey, it doesnt release all the way to the climax like expansions in other games. You have to wait for big fights like the scarlet raid which beat the hell out of wows lame tank and spank raids with some specific boss mechanics to be aware of, which the addon system ruins by trivialising anyway.

Close the thread as its just devolving to a match of who can whine the loudest.

Stop bringing wow up as a competitive example? It has more regular players then GW2 has AND its 10 years old. If that doesn’t set the standard by which to be judged, I don’t know what does. The only thing WoW’s longevity proves is that blizzard knows how to build an MMO and keep it running, where as Anet does not.

In 2011 WoW had over 12 million ACTIVE subscribers, GW2 barely broke 450k in august of 2013 and hasnt even sold half of what WoW has in active subscriptions in overall copies sold.

If you want to play WoW, then go play it. Personally, I don’t like WoW, I like GW2. That’s why I play Gw2 and I don’t play WoW. Please stop trying to turn GW2 into WoW.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Sizer.5632:

I never got where the whole gamers sense of entitlement came from in the last few years. It went from every game having a sub, to people expecting their games to be free while also giving continuous updates for years (not to mention server hosting, support, advertising, ect.), and going up in arms if they companies try to charge them anything at all.

Seriously people, at the absolute lowest wage in the US, 15 bucks is 2 hours of a part time job per month. If you cant pay that to support a hobby that can take up 100 hours a month, then somethings wrong or youre under the age of 13 (and if you are just get good at begging your parents for it)

The game is owned by a publicly traded company and its goal is to maximize profits (as much as people seem to believe, its not a non-profit). If player retention isnt helping that because there is no sub, then it makes zero business sense to focus on that instead of microtransactions and small content updates.

So you can complain about not wanting to ever pay a sub fee, or you can complain about a lack of content, but if you complain about both at the same time then you need to take an econ 101 class or something

GW2 player base = one person.

It is also worth noting that the “entitlement” standard is a door that swings both ways.

We are as “entitled” to a production as much as the company is “entitled” to the money that allows a production. Let’s make sure this is clear.

When has Anet claimed to be entitled to your money?

I always thought they should create an automatic Gem buying system. Basically like a sub, but instead you just set up a recurring automatic gem buyig, example, you set up that Anet takes $15 automatically from your credit card every month, and you get $15 worth of Gems.

kitten .9460:

TBH there is a ridiculous amount of bugs in the game that would hve been addressed in other MMOs about 20x faster.

Can anyone say WoW’s Ravenholdt rogue quest chain?

Josh.5839:

I think you guys never played a subbed game with consistent updates and content

WRONG! – I think you haven’t played many MMO’s… I have been a sub payer for my main MMO for almost 10 years.. and each week, each month, each quarter, each year .. there are bugs and there are long standing bugs.. my favourite is a ladder bug that’s been in game for almost as long as my subscription has been leaving my bank account.

Show me an MMO that is bugless cos honestly the very nature of the beast suggests inevitably it will fall fowl of some kind of coding cascade, human error or hardware/software conflicts with the plethora of options we players have in/on our rigs across the big ole globe.

Content updates are as often or not as the game developers choose/allow/want/can afford… GW2 or any other MMO all have their own agendas.. in fact many times I have been waiting 6months to a year+ for content updates in sub based games.. be happy GW2 has a regular schedule and has rarely missed the patch day – I can name a few that promise updates then months down the line there is silence except for ooh we found issues just as we were about to release and were busy rectifying them, closely followed by the infamous “SOOOON” statements.
The only thing I would prefer from ANET is maybe taking an extra week in the schedule to ensure the content better QA’ed and proper ready for patching, cos to me I think 2 week turnarounds are what’s causing them the issues w see repeating each patch.

Sure bugs are annoying.. the inventory and guild bugs that keep creeping into GW2 patch days get my back up but hey.. within hours, days its normally rectified and things settle down.. some of us don’t expect 100% perfection form an MMO, we do expect whiners though.

DarcShriek.5829:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Sizer.5632:

I never got where the whole gamers sense of entitlement came from in the last few years. It went from every game having a sub, to people expecting their games to be free while also giving continuous updates for years (not to mention server hosting, support, advertising, ect.), and going up in arms if they companies try to charge them anything at all.

Seriously people, at the absolute lowest wage in the US, 15 bucks is 2 hours of a part time job per month. If you cant pay that to support a hobby that can take up 100 hours a month, then somethings wrong or youre under the age of 13 (and if you are just get good at begging your parents for it)

The game is owned by a publicly traded company and its goal is to maximize profits (as much as people seem to believe, its not a non-profit). If player retention isnt helping that because there is no sub, then it makes zero business sense to focus on that instead of microtransactions and small content updates.

So you can complain about not wanting to ever pay a sub fee, or you can complain about a lack of content, but if you complain about both at the same time then you need to take an econ 101 class or something

GW2 player base = one person.

It is also worth noting that the “entitlement” standard is a door that swings both ways.

We are as “entitled” to a production as much as the company is “entitled” to the money that allows a production. Let’s make sure this is clear.

When has Anet claimed to be entitled to your money?

Never of course. We also need to make things clear that there is a method of engagement that allows both parties to meet in the middle, those two parties being the consumer and the producer.

You can deflect my statement if you want but let’s be clear that the quarterly reports details play in my favor.

If you were a business who is trying to rake in monster profit, do you listen to an apologist who probably doesn’t spend more than 10 dollars a month or would you rather focus on a rabid hate group that trashes your game, feels “entitled to a AAA product for their enjoyment” that can potentially probably fork over 80 dollars a month? This is obviously an arbitrary example black and white example just for the sake of getting the thought process going many details can be thrown into the mix to change the situation etc etc etc.

Let’s be honest here my friend. We’re all here in hopes that Anet carves the right path to success, I want to see this game flourish along with many other people but there are standards that must be imposed to ensure that things turn out for the better.

eisberg.2379:

MrIllusion.5304:

Spawne.3128:

Aarean.5398:

Can we stop bringing up wow as a competitive example. The game is at 10 years now and still runs a crappy unengaging combat system where you spend 80% of the time staring at a hotbar. Gw2 doesnt need big revamps because the gameplay is extremely well structured as is. Thank god they dont have major class balance changes every couple of months like wow.

On top of this the content gw brings is a building journey, it doesnt release all the way to the climax like expansions in other games. You have to wait for big fights like the scarlet raid which beat the hell out of wows lame tank and spank raids with some specific boss mechanics to be aware of, which the addon system ruins by trivialising anyway.

Close the thread as its just devolving to a match of who can whine the loudest.

Stop bringing wow up as a competitive example? It has more regular players then GW2 has AND its 10 years old. If that doesn’t set the standard by which to be judged, I don’t know what does. The only thing WoW’s longevity proves is that blizzard knows how to build an MMO and keep it running, where as Anet does not.

In 2011 WoW had over 12 million ACTIVE subscribers, GW2 barely broke 450k in august of 2013 and hasnt even sold half of what WoW has in active subscriptions in overall copies sold.

Many MMOs have tried to copy WoW’s model but failed. GW2 is one of the few MMOs released in recent times that didn’t have to go through any major changes to payment model like LOTRO or DCUO did.

Even Blizzard’s next big MMO Project Titan got canned.

At this stage, WoW is more likely a fluke than a winning model.

I remember years ago, professional industry analysts said the same thing, that WoW success is a fluke, and that no other game will ever come close to match it. It was the right game to come out at the right time. If WoW didn’t exist right now, but was to release right now, it would not see the same success as it did when it released 10 years ago.

WoW was the natural progression of Fantasy MMOs after Everquest. It was produced by a company that had a lot of good will built up in other gaming genres, especially RTS games as well as it’s own limited fantasy series Diablo.

“Your Diablo got in my Warcraft. Your Warcraft got in my Diablo.”

It’s only competition for tired Everquest players was Everquest 2 which launched two or three weeks before. It was the right game for the right time by a company that was well known for putting out high quality games. And since it came out in the era where subscriptions were still all the rage it was subscription based and because it’s popularity never truly waned, it didn’t have a reason to go F2P like so many MMOs that came after (as well as before).

But that era is gone. ESO and Wildstar’s struggles prove that subscriptions no longer work. SWTOR proves that even a wildly popular IP isn’t enough of a draw to make subscriptions work.

ArenaNet always looked at the MMO market as no different than any other PC title. Buy once, play forever, maybe buy an expansion. Since the founders came from Blizzard pre WoW this was the same methodology that worked for Warcraft series, Starcraft and Diablo/Diablo II. But that method doesn’t work with a true open MMO as oppose to a hub/instance model that GW had. They needed a monthly income stream, not yearly spikes so they went with a toned down version of the cash shop stocked with convenience and cosmetic items rather than cash gated content.

So today the only games that rely solely on subscriptions are older games that are 1) still successful and 2) have always been subscriptions or games that were subscription based and now have content restricted cash shops with optional VIP (re: subscription) options. Or there’s us.

Subscriptions. Expansions. A GW2 player craves not these things.

Josh.5839:

-hardly any new content

-too slow to solve issues

-buggy

etc

Its obvious they cant afford a quality game with the current direction.

How about you tell the truth instead of using this straw-man argument.

You want a subscription so that the casual players quit playing and you can enjoy a game with nothing but like minded players that only play one way.

People paying a subscription fee (especially when there is an optional in-game store) are like the people that rent games over and over. When do you think you finally paid enough? I know someone that constantly rented the same game every week for 2 years at $3 a week ($312 before any taxes) and still never finished it. I bought the same game for $29.95 and I can play it whenever I want. Why pay more than it is worth?

Average subscription fee is $15 a month for $180 total a year. It is like telling people that the $50-$60 game they bought should only be played for 6 months and then repurchased.

Casual players tend to be the ones that prioritize that other bills come first and games come last. You want us gone. Plain and simple.

I’ve got Castlevania, Metroid, and Assassin’s Creed for video games if they start subscription fees.

And ultimately in the end, I have my Battletech tabletop miniature’s game for when the power is out.

Sorry to hear that you don’t enjoy the two new parts of the map given to us in the last few months, which probably needed to be modeled as the LS was developed, seeing as how those areas tie in directly with the story…

You also must not consider the brand new jumping puzzle, which is the largest in the game by the way, to be new content. But that’s probably because you looked up a guide on how to do it instead of figuring it out yourself, or you simply have not done it.

New armor and new stat combinations, of which we’ve had two in the last few months must not count as content either…

Tell me, what is “good content” to you?

Right now I have been paying far more than the usual subscription of a typical pay MMO. This is NOT a house, this is NOT a car. I don’t need a monthly bill to PLAY a GAME. I spend my money how and when I choose, I spend more on gems currently but I do so at my will, at my leisure, not on some continuing requirement.

The financial model this game was developed on is indeed a mico-transactions model. Most new MMOs have gone to this model, and the one’s that have not have failed. WoW subscribers are heavily invested, it’s numbing, they have been doing it for years and have totally forgot about the 15 USD/Month fee being drained out.

You put a monthly model on this game and it will die faster than it already is.

Ravion Hawk.4736:

And ultimately in the end, I have my Battletech tabletop miniature’s game for when the power is out.

Blasphemy! I have a whole house generator for when the power is out!

Srsly though, I do have a generator, but I didn’t get it got gaming purposes. I have tropical fish, and power outages are extremely hazardous to their health (especially mid winter, my house gets cold fast).

Hm, we started WildStar but stopped it really soon. One of the main reasons was, that you have to pay a sub. It’s not so much the Money, it’s the thought “hmm do I really want to continue, is it worth to pay even when you wont have time for the next few months? What happens to your char? Why continue when you aren’t entirely convinced?” I would really love to try WildStar again, but that would mean having to pay the sub again, so hm no…

Josh.5839:

-hardly any new content

-too slow to solve issues

-buggy

etc

Its obvious they cant afford a quality game with the current direction.

And what’s to say that changing to subscription will actually improve the game at all? I mean, there have been several sub games that isn’t WoW or EvE that have made the switch to free to play because they do not have enough subscribers to keep the game alive. While GW2 has a reasonably high playerbase, I think what got them (and myself) into the game to begin with was the promise of no monthly subscription. Changing that to sub is just going spell “betrayal”.

The exception to that though would be if Anet adapted how Sony did it with the early Playstation Plus in that you pay a timely fee and that you get bonuses like free games. I can imagine Anet could do something like that in that they can reward players with a random gem store item bundle or something or a generous discount in gem store items. It would still put several people off, but I think that’s a better alternative.

Xytl.8659:

Sorry to hear that you don’t enjoy the two new parts of the map given to us in the last few months, which probably needed to be modeled as the LS was developed, seeing as how those areas tie in directly with the story…

You also must not consider the brand new jumping puzzle, which is the largest in the game by the way, to be new content. But that’s probably because you looked up a guide on how to do it instead of figuring it out yourself, or you simply have not done it.

New armor and new stat combinations, of which we’ve had two in the last few months must not count as content either…

Tell me, what is “good content” to you?

perhaps I should clarify the aching perspective more clearly with a vague metaphor!.

Its great that a reception can serve some of the best kittentails in the city but if I’m looking for the beef sliders that were suppose to be at the reception and I was looking forward to getting some substance, its great to have a great kittentail but it would be much more my alley to get those hearty Hors d’oeuvres so I can enjoy the night in its entirety with no interruption a lot more, otherwise I may have to back out and hit the mc donalds to get something cheap and maybe come back when I’m fuller. Know what I’m saying?

The new jumping puzzle is probably the best to date, I will agree.

Josh.5839:

-hardly any new content

-too slow to solve issues

-buggy

etc

Its obvious they cant afford a quality game with the current direction.

sub won’t fix these issues.

But it feels like they’re too dead set on the concept of continuous DLCs. That apparently doesn’t work.

From what I’ve seen, they also need to get their act together with employees. It seems to me they focus of favoritism and asskissing rather than talent. Going off of employee reviews and seeing who’s active and not or without renewed contracts. Seems like Gaile is the only good employee who’s managed to stay.

Making a subscription doesn’t solve these issues. The issues primarily stem from human resources in the company and the upper management.

At this point in its life, a subscription will kill the game as the no subscription is its primary selling point. It’s why many people don’t drop the game – the ability to return at any point.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Xytl.8659:

Sorry to hear that you don’t enjoy the two new parts of the map given to us in the last few months, which probably needed to be modeled as the LS was developed, seeing as how those areas tie in directly with the story…

You also must not consider the brand new jumping puzzle, which is the largest in the game by the way, to be new content. But that’s probably because you looked up a guide on how to do it instead of figuring it out yourself, or you simply have not done it.

New armor and new stat combinations, of which we’ve had two in the last few months must not count as content either…

Tell me, what is “good content” to you?

perhaps I should clarify the aching perspective more clearly with a vague metaphor!.

Its great that a reception can serve some of the best kittentails in the city but if I’m looking for the beef sliders that were suppose to be at the reception and I was looking forward to getting some substance, its great to have a great kittentail but it would be much more my alley to get those hearty Hors d’oeuvres so I can enjoy the night in its entirety with no interruption a lot more, otherwise I may have to back out and hit the mc donalds to get something cheap and maybe come back when I’m fuller. Know what I’m saying?

The new jumping puzzle is probably the best to date, I will agree.

No idea what you are saying before it, but I do agree with the jump puzzle statement.

calyx.9086:

Apparently GW2 is the MMO of choice for poor people. Unless you are only working a minimum wage job and supporting a family on that, then I don’t see why this would inspire so many people to quit.

A lot of people loved the fact that GW1 had no sub fee. A lot of people loved the fact that GW2 would carry forward that tradition of no sub fee. It’s a perk that drew a lot of people.

I love how you assume that people that may not be able to afford or simply don’t want to pay a sub fee are poor. It really doesn’t matter what their income is, the fact remains that this is a game, it shouldn’t have a monthly bill attached to it.

calyx.9086:

Apparently GW2 is the MMO of choice for poor people. Unless you are only working a minimum wage job and supporting a family on that, then I don’t see why this would inspire so many people to quit.

Or for people who understand the value of the dollar and don’t want to waste it away on subscription fees, despite if they can afford it or not.

I can afford to pay a subscription fee, but I see no value in doing so. I do not see the extra value in each month that the $15 a month pays for in WoW as compared to Guild Wars 2 model.

I need to feel like I am actually getting something every month for that $15 a month, and no MMO with a subscription fee has that.

calyx.9086:

Apparently GW2 is the MMO of choice for poor people. Unless you are only working a minimum wage job and supporting a family on that, then I don’t see why this would inspire so many people to quit.

You must be a delight at parties.

eisberg.2379:

I can afford to pay a subscription fee, but I see no value in doing so. I do not see the extra value in each month that the $15 a month pays for in WoW as compared to Guild Wars 2 model.

I need to feel like I am actually getting something every month for that $15 a month, and no MMO with a subscription fee has that.

Yup, that sums up how I feel about it.

Kasemdria.7138:

Then, my wife and I got to level 90 from 85 in like….half a day 2-manning the five man dungeons which took us between 20 mins to 30 mins to do each dungeon or something stupid. We were still in our shoddy gear from days of old. After wondering if people still died in pve, I popped onto the forum and found lots of people either complaining that the class changes to CC or whatever had made the game too hard, or that people were raving about the changes saying it brought back the old challenge. We sat thinking “that was challenging?” and left a little disappointed.

Well, that’s because the scaling in WoW is always broken with every expansion. When MoP was released level 80 paladins were able to solo current raid bosses because Blizzard likes to change how gear stats apply from level to level. For that reason I’m not surprised to hear that you guys were able to 2-man five mans before hitting 90. The trend is always that you’re overpowered until you hit max level. At that point you’re weaker than ever until you acquire some raid gear, at which point you become overpowered again.

Kasemdria.7138:

I don’t think I’ve seen any more bugs than what I’ve seen in WoW.

And that’s the bottom line. This game, with all its flaws, has a far higher value-to-cost ratio than any other MMO out there.

Kasemdria.7138:

If WoW had released their expansions in pieces for free, would people have been unsatisfied?

WoW releases tons of content between expansions. To be fair it isn’t for free since the motive is clearly to retain subscriptions. Even so, I like the fact that I can stop playing for six months and come back to a character that is still capable of the same level of play that they were prior to my hiatus. It’s extremely frustrating to grind to the high end of the gear scale only to have it reset every three months. If you want to pay a premium for a never ending gear grind then by all means go play a game that offers that. Guild Wars has never offered that, and many of us like it that way.

Spawne.3128:

When people spend 2-3 hours a night completing a mission, and get rewarded with nothing, not only is frustrating but its disappointing as well, and sends people looking for fun elsewhere, and it has only seemingly gotten worse since I started my new thief several months ago, which was rewarded with a level 18 green pact weapon at the end of the zhaitan mission when my character was level 80.

Zhaitan is the only mission in the game like that. You’re touting WoW as a standard, but their end game last expansion was entirely composed of raiding. Every single raid took 2-3 hours to complete, and by the time you were 2-3 weeks into the raid you were effectively coming out of those raids with nothing to show for them about 75% of the time. I don’t understand how you can complain about a one-time event in Guild Wars while trying to hold up a game that is rife with the situation that you just complained about as a standard of excellence.

I actually don’t know why people are getting worked up over this. The company has officially stated they will not do something like this. They did so recently as well.

Sizer.5632:

I never got where the whole gamers sense of entitlement came from in the last few years. It went from every game having a sub, to people expecting their games to be free while also giving continuous updates for years (not to mention server hosting, support, advertising, ect.), and going up in arms if they companies try to charge them anything at all.

Entitlement is a two-way street. Companies aren’t entitled to business. They put out a product and hope that customers are willling to pay for it. That’s the way it’s always been. This isn’t some concept that sprang out of nowhere over the past two years. Historically most games out there were one-time purchases. I bought Zelda Ocarina of Time back in 2000, and I can still play it whenever I want. ArenaNet advertised this game as a buy-once-play-indefinitely deal, and that’s what many bought into. Granted, if you read their user agreement they can change this up at any time, but I think that doing so would erase a great deal of good will and breach quite a bit of trust. This “sense of entitlement” regarding subscriptions is all in your mind.

If you are so motivated to do a subscription… just do it yourself:

Find bargains on the Black Lion thingy;
Spend $15 per month on them;
Consider yourself subscribed!

You can cancel any time.

kitten .9460:

I’m curious what other MMO you’ve played that has major bugs for so long.

Then take a gander at this: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/1012660/

Going subs would literally kill GW2. A lot of players opted to play GW2 because it’s no sub, in other words a lot would plainly quit it if it happened. The ones that do wanna pay a sub are probably the type of people that spend a lot of money on goodies from the gemstore currently as well. Because they wouldn’t mind spending money for cute minis/outfits. Hell i even don’t mind spending 10€ if i see an outfit that i find nice enough to put on, and i’m pretty certain i’m not the only one of the people that refuse to go sub.

I quit SWTOR as soon as GW2 started because of the whole sub ordeal. I’ve considered returning to SWTOR at times now that free is an option. And the simple principle behind it is, stores with goodies work better than subscriptions because it’s something you can enjoy in-game. “content” shouldn’t be the drive of being the gain in money, it’ll only backfire because content isn’t always appreciated by everyone because people have different tastes. And if a long streak happens of content being a failure in one’s eyes they’ll just quit the game altogether, but if you work with stores, peeps will spend money for something they enjoy in the store. (The only improvement anet can do to their gemstore if they wanna make more money is get rid of the gold->gem conversion, but leave in the gem->gold conversion)

And don’t come here using WoW as an example for a succesful MMO with a sub. Blizzard has always had a MASSIVE fanbase with strong franchises like diablo and warcraft. Because WoW built on from the warcraft franchise, it was infested with lore that a lot of blizzard fans could relate to. Add to that the fact that at the time WoW was released it barely had a competition, Everquest was several years old and the same could be said for DAoC. Due to the fact it didn’t have any more recent competitors and the fanbase, it could draw a lot of players instantly. And could thrive upon it, then there were plenty of years where no decent MMO was released, so it wasn’t endangered at all, i only remember it was after cata was released that the first mention of possible WoW-killers was mentioned. SWTOR, ESO, Rift, 3 examples of games that were deemed WoW-killers but all failed because they didn’t handle their playerbase well, i can’t judge what went wrong for ESO and Rift as i didn’t play em. But SWTOR ruined their game by neglecting to acknowledge a massive decay of players after the free month, which made about 70% of their real subscribers to be stuck on near dead servers. And they waited a half year before merging the dead servers to the live ones, but by then only 10-20% remained of those 70%. If they hadn’t done that mistake in the first half year they possibly could have made subs work for them as well.

Would WoW be as succesful if it was to release now with an up-to-date graph engine? Succesful yes, but not as good as it is. Consider the fact that WoW has been having a decay in playerbase with every other decent MMO that has been released. If those people didn’t have a WoW account in which they spent years on their characters, they would have been less likely to ditch said MMO. It’s the fact they spent sooo much effort in their WoW characters that they need a MMO that will truely throw them off their feet to leave it behind.

Personally my only reason i could easily leave WoW was because my PvP experience was just getting worse and worse without a solid group of people to team with for rated bgs and arenas, and i grew tired of grinding raids over and over.

Which brings us to the point of updates. “WoW does bring more content”, sorry but WRONG. WoW usually gave people a raid with 5-12 bosses every half year with MAYBE 1 5 man dungeon with 3-4 bosses. The only reason it feels like more content is because they force you to grind it over and over for a new set of gear!

So please don’t come here crying for subscriptions, most don’t want it and will run away. And anet doesn’t need it cause they add enough to the gemstore that lures people to buy items which aren’t a large effort to create.

I don’t know why people are continuing to entertain this troll thread. The OP is free to go back to WoW any time he wishes, and all those people accusing anyone of white knighting, or being an Anet shill are also free to leave. The rest of us, however will continue to play and enjoy this game.

Not sure what anyone thinks paying a Sub would help? If you are worried about them not having enough cash flow buy more Gems. And forget the dream that Paying gives better or more content.

This would be huge mistake cause lots of players are already on the edge of quiting the game,and only reason keeping them here is that they dont need to give money.Players lost faith in ArenaNet.Charging monthly fee would just cause that all of those players quit game.They even force themselves now to play a game…monthly fee would kill game.

Thanatos.2691:

It’s sad to see how many people think a subscription fee would be applied to the content we already get for free. This has been the largest argument against a subscription fee that I’ve seen, which seems to completely miss the point of a subscription fee. The content we already have can easily remain free while a subscription fee could add a steady source of player investment into the game, meaning developers would likely have more money and resources to put into content development.

It’s also sad to see people thinking that a subscription fee would be applied to content they want. There is absolutely no guarantee that that would be the case. You and others are presuming that it’s lack of funding that leads to your not getting what you want when you want it. Well, ANet has a plan for the game and they are getting on with it. I see nothing inherent to a sub fee that would indicate they would change their plan or rate of content delivery.

If they wanted to charge a sub, even if it was half that of others at £5 per month, GW1 players would have probably paid for it, I know I would have.

However, thanks to the “we cannot talk about it” attitude, and strict rules and especially rules made towards one certain part of the game, i.e No necroing posts sticky in WvW Discussions forums but no such warning on other forums; punishing players who posting concerns about bugs glitches and hackers etc etc etc etc etc etc.

Well basically we already know a lot of people have already left the game. Half of those who are still here have little faith left in Anet and probably only play because friends still play, and the rest are those who havent or are new players.

Introducing a sub now ruin this game now, a lot of players will be asking anet, why should we pay you more? You wont talk to us about the future of this game, you wont fix the hacking issue, and you ignore WvW like the plague.

Anet lost the plot long ago, even a new expansion will not help this game, PvP and WvW players will still ask why they should buy a PvE expansion which still ignores their game mode!

So the answer is No, no, no, no, hell no!

Bandit.8279:

So about 2 years and 2 months and they were charging you about $180 a year for 2 years ($360) with no updates what-so-ever.

You didn’t play vanilla WoW, did you? That’s a rhetorical question. I know you didn’t, because you’d know this was false.

Blackwing Lair was added in 1.6.
Zul’Gurub was added in 1.7.
Ahn’Qiraj (Temple and Ruins) was added in 1.9.
Naxxramas was added in 1.10.
The dragon world bosses were added in 1.8.
Azuregos and Lord Kazzak world bosses in 1.3.

That’s just raid stuff. That doesn’t include any other things added to the game. It’s not like they went from 1.0 to Burning Crusade.

I already occasionally play two subscriptionMMO’s (WoW & FFXIV:ARR), I don’t always have money to pay for the sub fees, so i enjoy being able to come to GW2 without having to worry about paying anything.

If GW2 would become subscription based, i would probably never pay for it, as i might as well play a different game then.

If it means content development closer to WoWs but with 2 week patches instead of the long content droughts so be it; perhaps something more like Vanilla Rift.