Guild Wars 2

Oldirtbeard.9834:

If it means content development closer to WoWs but with 2 week patches instead of the long content droughts so be it; perhaps something more like Vanilla Rift.

How about we make it less like wow and rift.

How about no sub and try to be nothing like wow as it is a failure as a template due to the inability for anyone to recreate its success. It should never be used as a model because the gameplay isnt its strong point. The investment of the players and atmosphere are and you cant copy that without copyright infringement. The only mmo that can follow that old crap model is wow 2 with all the characters and places the fans love.
Simple fact is content and gameplay in gw is just all around better and should be the mainstream model such as upcoming Black Desert Online is doing modeling gw combat which i totally agree with.
There will never be another wow situation even for blizzard because it was at a good time for release and they built the atmosphere over a decade with the RTS warcraft games. Gameplay is dated and nothing to lose yourself over… Basically why I left

This is a very old subject. Like I said paying doesn’t mean More or better content. If someone wants WoW or some other game. Please go play it. I buy Gems to support the game. If they start to charge a Sub I would stop playing.

Good idea CMM i like your train of thought hahaha

Aarean.5398:

How about no sub and try to be nothing like wow as it is a failure as a template due to the inability for anyone to recreate its success. It should never be used as a model because the gameplay isnt its strong point. The investment of the players and atmosphere are and you cant copy that without copyright infringement. The only mmo that can follow that old crap model is wow 2 with all the characters and places the fans love.
Simple fact is content and gameplay in gw is just all around better and should be the mainstream model such as upcoming Black Desert Online is doing modeling gw combat which i totally agree with.
There will never be another wow situation even for blizzard because it was at a good time for release and they built the atmosphere over a decade with the RTS warcraft games. Gameplay is dated and nothing to lose yourself over… Basically why I left

This.

WoW have been the “first MMO” for a lot of people. Many of WoW’s playerbase is their playerbase because of nostalgia, friends or because they think that they have invested a lot in the game to leave it and go now. Thats how WoW is retaining most of it’s playerbase.

WoW, compared to the newer game is really lagging. The combat feels static, the world feels ancient (even WoD) and the community is full of “elitist”.
Don’t get me wrong, I have played WoW for a good amount of time but it doesnt just feel “exciting” to me. And thats my opinion.

As far as sub or no-sub. I think I would pay as content delivers, and not be an “angel investor”- Pay and HOPE they make something. Its only fair

CMM.6712:

Oldirtbeard.9834:

If it means content development closer to WoWs but with 2 week patches instead of the long content droughts so be it; perhaps something more like Vanilla Rift.

How about we make it less like wow and rift.

I think he means as far as development effort and direction, not actually literally turn GW2 into WoW but the QoL features that it has. Imagine if Anet did their spin with the core game that they have.

Let’s jot down some examples of a guildwars 2 equivalent of what it could have with the development effort of blizzard.

- Imagine if your personal story instance was actually an empty plot of land that you could customize and build to your liking, turning it into a war base with your own followers. As you progress through the game, dungeons, personal story, achievement through living world, new features and different types of npcs can unlock that provide their own additional benefits like a farm plot, npcs that mine, crafters that slowly craft the materials you need to make gear while you go and do an explorable dungeon or work on your achievements in the living world.

- Imagine if said explorable dungeons have varying levels of adjusted difficulty for different skill groups, with higher difficulty, cosmetic prestige that showcase your triumphs through harder levels of difficulty representative of each dungeon

- Imagine that we got new sPvE explorable dungeon content

These are some really extreme arbitrary examples but you see where this can go. I believe the hope and dream is that if there was a method of stable and higher levels of income, the finances would allow for said dreams to come true.

Personal opinion, highly unlikely even if it were the case.

EDIT: also I got another couple

Imagine if armor transmutation and changing your hair wasn’t locked behind the gemstore but rather normal NPC services available in towns for small bits of cash.

Filaha.1678:

Bandit.8279:

So about 2 years and 2 months and they were charging you about $180 a year for 2 years ($360) with no updates what-so-ever.

You didn’t play vanilla WoW, did you? That’s a rhetorical question. I know you didn’t, because you’d know this was false.

Blackwing Lair was added in 1.6.
Zul’Gurub was added in 1.7.
Ahn’Qiraj (Temple and Ruins) was added in 1.9.
Naxxramas was added in 1.10.
The dragon world bosses were added in 1.8.
Azuregos and Lord Kazzak world bosses in 1.3.

That’s just raid stuff. That doesn’t include any other things added to the game. It’s not like they went from 1.0 to Burning Crusade.

Early on when the game released, they released some new non raid content, but it was content that just wasn’t finished in time for launch of the game, every other non raid content was nearly table scraps (Dungeon Set armor challenge, for example).

Blizzard said years ago that Molten Core was the most popular large raid during the vanilla times, it peaked out at 15% of the player base attempting the raid, with only about 5% that actually completed it. This means that every other raid after that, was literally only made for about 5% of the player base. So all that raid content they made for those 2 years, was diddly squat for the other 95% of the player base.

Blizzard literally added very little content in that 2 years for non raiders in the game during those times, which made up about 95% of the player base.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

DarcShriek.5829:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Sizer.5632:

I never got where the whole gamers sense of entitlement came from in the last few years. It went from every game having a sub, to people expecting their games to be free while also giving continuous updates for years (not to mention server hosting, support, advertising, ect.), and going up in arms if they companies try to charge them anything at all.

Seriously people, at the absolute lowest wage in the US, 15 bucks is 2 hours of a part time job per month. If you cant pay that to support a hobby that can take up 100 hours a month, then somethings wrong or youre under the age of 13 (and if you are just get good at begging your parents for it)

The game is owned by a publicly traded company and its goal is to maximize profits (as much as people seem to believe, its not a non-profit). If player retention isnt helping that because there is no sub, then it makes zero business sense to focus on that instead of microtransactions and small content updates.

So you can complain about not wanting to ever pay a sub fee, or you can complain about a lack of content, but if you complain about both at the same time then you need to take an econ 101 class or something

GW2 player base = one person.

It is also worth noting that the “entitlement” standard is a door that swings both ways.

We are as “entitled” to a production as much as the company is “entitled” to the money that allows a production. Let’s make sure this is clear.

When has Anet claimed to be entitled to your money?

Never of course. We also need to make things clear that there is a method of engagement that allows both parties to meet in the middle, those two parties being the consumer and the producer.

You can deflect my statement if you want but let’s be clear that the quarterly reports details play in my favor.

If you were a business who is trying to rake in monster profit, do you listen to an apologist who probably doesn’t spend more than 10 dollars a month or would you rather focus on a rabid hate group that trashes your game, feels “entitled to a AAA product for their enjoyment” that can potentially probably fork over 80 dollars a month? This is obviously an arbitrary example black and white example just for the sake of getting the thought process going many details can be thrown into the mix to change the situation etc etc etc.

Let’s be honest here my friend. We’re all here in hopes that Anet carves the right path to success, I want to see this game flourish along with many other people but there are standards that must be imposed to ensure that things turn out for the better.

Your arbitrary black and white example destroys any credibility your position may have had. No company in their right mind is going to listen to rabid hate groups that trash their game. Especially when the game is profitable. If you’re trying to make a point, then you have failed by your use of ridiculous examples. You might have well as used ninja turtles and furries.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

snip

While I like the idea of some of your suggestions, I like doing things for myself, crafting and harvesting and what not… that gives me a sense of accomplishment because I did it myself. Interesting ideas you have though and I am not just dismissing them, I’m just not sure how viable they would be to add.

I am totally opposed to the subscription fee though and I feel that most players feel the same as it is one of the core reasons they play GW2. I would rather support through the gem store when I can than be expected to pay on a monthly basis.

Honestly…. I would have paid for a subscription had I known this F2P gemstore system was going to be so slow and boring.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

CMM.6712:

Oldirtbeard.9834:

If it means content development closer to WoWs but with 2 week patches instead of the long content droughts so be it; perhaps something more like Vanilla Rift.

How about we make it less like wow and rift.

I think he means as far as development effort and direction, not actually literally turn GW2 into WoW but the QoL features that it has. Imagine if Anet did their spin with the core game that they have.

Let’s jot down some examples of a guildwars 2 equivalent of what it could have with the development effort of blizzard.

- Imagine if your personal story instance was actually an empty plot of land that you could customize and build to your liking, turning it into a war base with your own followers. As you progress through the game, dungeons, personal story, achievement through living world, new features and different types of npcs can unlock that provide their own additional benefits like a farm plot, npcs that mine, crafters that slowly craft the materials you need to make gear while you go and do an explorable dungeon or work on your achievements in the living world.

- Imagine if said explorable dungeons have varying levels of adjusted difficulty for different skill groups, with higher difficulty, cosmetic prestige that showcase your triumphs through harder levels of difficulty representative of each dungeon

- Imagine that we got new sPvE explorable dungeon content

These are some really extreme arbitrary examples but you see where this can go. I believe the hope and dream is that if there was a method of stable and higher levels of income, the finances would allow for said dreams to come true.

Personal opinion, highly unlikely even if it were the case.

EDIT: also I got another couple

Imagine if armor transmutation and changing your hair wasn’t locked behind the gemstore but rather normal NPC services available in towns for small bits of cash.

Some one gets it, or imagine some of the more ambitious things Rift did when rolling out content prior to storm legion with world wide events, then leaving the permanent content that it led up to with random spawning events for people to still get the flavor every once in awhile of the World Wide event that heralded the permanent content.

Kind of like a mix between season one and season 2

DarcShriek.5829:

Your arbitrary black and white example destroys any credibility your position may have had. No company in their right mind is going to listen to rabid hate groups that trash their game. Especially when the game is profitable. If you’re trying to make a point, then you have failed by your use of ridiculous examples. You might have well as used ninja turtles and furries.

I actually think my point stands.

Remember back in beta when mobs moved around intelligently around, mesmers and necromancers had a completely different setup? Take a wild guess as to what kind of people of the consumer body “influenced” that change.

Ascended gear? think about it.

As absurd as it is to listen to these “rabid hate groups” is, I am fairly certain that Anet had done this a few times already, a fine example is the ascended gear initiative announced november 2012 and of course all of the following afterwards. Feel free to dig around to refresh your memory.

Now the question is, which groups do you actually listen to that make sense?

If I was full on rabid in full of hatred and going BALLISTIC over say…

- the NPE initiative released recently (changed because rabid hate groups went ballistic)
- the change to the conversion UI that happened this halloween (also hot fixed after people went insane)
- the Fractured updated which showcased NO fractal weapon skin box and ALSO reset my fractal level after the amount of work I put into it
- the fact that sliding damage is still glitched to the point that I can kill myself on stairs
- the fact that I still have to /dance to regain control of my character in A RANKED TEAM MATCH IN SPVP which may or may not cost me the entire match
- the fact that the molten facility and aetherblade pirate cove were removed from its original place, chopped into pieces and released as small fractal segments for the base designs to be never fully utilized
- the fact that we still have 32048 trillion thick leather sections with no worthy use
- the fact that if I bought the unlimited continue coin from the gemstore I am STILL NOT ABLE TO USE ITS FUNCTIONALITY SINCE SAB; BACK TO SCHOOL

well, I’m sure you get the picture here.

I will not disagree with the fact that the game is still profitable, I never said it wasn’t. What I am saying is that sometimes results need to happen sooner rather than later. You will know what this means if you’ve ever sat down in a conference call in regards to various business decisions.

As absurd as my black and white example is, it literally happened numerous times. Ever read the reddit threads in regards to some of my bullet points? very toxic, very poisonous.

My history of Sub-based MMOs (Trust me, not as pretty as you’re glossing it over to be.)

Phantasy Star Online – $8/month, my first MMO. Shut down their servers rather quickly.

Aion – $15/month – Went free to play after 2 years and continues to take massive craps on itself with worse and worse updates.

Tera – Went free to play after first year – Getting better, but was horrible when it was a $15/month sub

Wildstar – $15/month and is probably the largest hype i’ve participated in in a while, and flopped harder on it’s face than the guy grinding down a guardrail into the pavement. It’s still 15/month and it’s playerbase QQs pretty hard about lack of content/population/“hardcore” content aka more raids no one has attunements for.

Archeage – $15/month if you plan to farm or do anything worthwhile. Free to play otherwise. Still a horrible game, though.

Guild Wars 2 has honestly come out with more content and game changing alterations than i’ve seen in a VERY long time. And I was quit since first month of the game until recently. It was like coming into a new game – everything had changed. If you seriously think this game never came out with content, you’re obviously not looking at every angle of it. This game might be a buy to play model, but they are sure has hell putting out content faster than some other MMOs that have been on the market recently.

I’ve literally begun to have a distain for MMOs that go Sub based. the only thing useful with the model is blocking BRs from taking over the faction chat. After that, subs are horrible or get worse over time.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

DarcShriek.5829:

Your arbitrary black and white example destroys any credibility your position may have had. No company in their right mind is going to listen to rabid hate groups that trash their game. Especially when the game is profitable. If you’re trying to make a point, then you have failed by your use of ridiculous examples. You might have well as used ninja turtles and furries.

I actually think my point stands.

.

Then you don’t study game design much. You aren’t familiar with different gamer types. You don’t know who the whales are. The whales don’t come from the rabid hate groups, the rabid hate groups are simply rabid hate groups. Nothing more nothing less. They tend to spend less money as they like to earn their rewards and consider paying for them to be cheating. These people are 10-15 percent of the gaming public, But you knew that because you study this kind of thing. Pleasing these people is a task for Sisyphus and really not worth the bother.

Casual players that are more likely to pay are the ones this game is designed for. They make up maybe 65% of the gaming audience. They want to be able to understand how to play without looking up information on the internet. That’s why you won’t find them on the forums. They want to pick up and play. That’s why Anet has gone through so much trouble to make the NPE as easy as it is. They also want to feel like they’ve achieved something without being frustrated. The moment you frustrate them they leave for another game. There are lots of games out there, and there’s no need to play one that insists on challenging me on a Monday night when I just want to relax after a long day at work.

I was having lunch with another game designer today. We came to the conclusion that any game that we have to read the directions to understand how it plays has lost us as a customers. We’re not alone.

All games lose customers as they age, there are no exceptions. GW2’s growth cycle seems to be quite normal.

Funny thing is, if you go to the forums of the sub themeparks, even WoW, you see the same complaints about how the content is coming too slowly.

They havn’t needed it in the past. They don’t need it now.

DarcShriek.5829:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

DarcShriek.5829:

Your arbitrary black and white example destroys any credibility your position may have had. No company in their right mind is going to listen to rabid hate groups that trash their game. Especially when the game is profitable. If you’re trying to make a point, then you have failed by your use of ridiculous examples. You might have well as used ninja turtles and furries.

I actually think my point stands.

.

Then you don’t study game design much. You aren’t familiar with different gamer types. You don’t know who the whales are. The whales don’t come from the rabid hate groups, the rabid hate groups are simply rabid hate groups. Nothing more nothing less. They tend to spend less money as they like to earn their rewards and consider paying for them to be cheating. These people are 10-15 percent of the gaming public, But you knew that because you study this kind of thing. Pleasing these people is a task for Sisyphus and really not worth the bother.

Casual players that are more likely to pay are the ones this game is designed for. They make up maybe 65% of the gaming audience. They want to be able to understand how to play without looking up information on the internet. That’s why you won’t find them on the forums. They want to pick up and play. That’s why Anet has gone through so much trouble to make the NPE as easy as it is. They also want to feel like they’ve achieved something without being frustrated. The moment you frustrate them they leave for another game. There are lots of games out there, and there’s no need to play one that insists on challenging me on a Monday night when I just want to relax after a long day at work.

I was having lunch with another game designer today. We came to the conclusion that any game that we have to read the directions to understand how it plays has lost us as a customers. We’re not alone.

All games lose customers as they age, there are no exceptions. GW2’s growth cycle seems to be quite normal.

Hate groups can consist of various different ideals, some hate for the sake of it, some do it as they believe there is no other way to get the point across. I do not agree with generalizing them into well, what you just described. I also don’t recall the NPE making things easier when it first launched, as a matter of fact the constant lockouts made it that much more challenging for these “newer” players to progress through content due to lack of trait access and skill access of having things locked out farther down the road. The balancing behind the NPE was only made easier after getting blasted by an ocean of hostility from many different sources.

As much as it being designed for a casual social audience, last I recall Anet wanted to push for GW2 to be an e sport, hence the constant tournament advertisement on the front page.

As normal as GW2’s growth cycle is, its been proven already that the reverse is entirely possible and last I recall a goal that was trying to be achieved via living story, attempting to retain older players while attempting to bring in new, a goal that HAS been achieved by one of mother company’s oldest products, Lineage.

I consider myself a member of a hate group (hostile towards unsatisfactory deliverance). Is my previous bullet points that much of a bother to deal with?

No.

Won’t happen.

Thread is waste of bandwidth and storage space.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Let’s jot down some examples of a guildwars 2 equivalent of what it could have with the development effort of blizzard.

- Imagine if your personal story instance was actually an empty plot of land that you could customize and build to your liking, turning it into a war base with your own followers. As you progress through the game, dungeons, personal story, achievement through living world, new features and different types of npcs can unlock that provide their own additional benefits like a farm plot, npcs that mine, crafters that slowly craft the materials you need to make gear while you go and do an explorable dungeon or work on your achievements in the living world.

This doesn’t require that many resources. Half the system was stolen from SWTOR, which is now a free-to-play game. The other half comes from Harvest Moon, which is a buy-once-play-as-much-as-you-want game.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

- Imagine if said explorable dungeons have varying levels of adjusted difficulty for different skill groups, with higher difficulty, cosmetic prestige that showcase your triumphs through harder levels of difficulty representative of each dungeon

These are called fractals. Adding level-specific skins won’t require a huge investment of resources. I don’t see how a sub would expedite this type of system. Even if it did, I don’t really think that adding another ego booster to the game would enhance it.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

- Imagine that we got new sPvE explorable dungeon content

I’m sure that’s coming. We’re getting map zones all the time. New dungeons aren’t harder to make. I suspect that the demand for dungeons isn’t as high in the general population as you think it is.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Imagine if armor transmutation and changing your hair wasn’t locked behind the gemstore but rather normal NPC services available in towns for small bits of cash.

Let me get this straight. You think that being forced to pay a monthly fee for services that you may or may not use is better for players than a pay-as-you-use-it system?

Bottom line: It really sounds like you would rather be playing WoW right now. No one is stopping you from doing that. This game is not WoW, and that’s why many of us play it. Thankfully a couple of months from now when you’ve fully upgraded your garrison and you get tired for running the gear treadmill on yet another raid GW2 will still be here for you at no additional charge. See you then.

Bernie.8674:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Let’s jot down some examples of a guildwars 2 equivalent of what it could have with the development effort of blizzard.

- Imagine if your personal story instance was actually an empty plot of land that you could customize and build to your liking, turning it into a war base with your own followers. As you progress through the game, dungeons, personal story, achievement through living world, new features and different types of npcs can unlock that provide their own additional benefits like a farm plot, npcs that mine, crafters that slowly craft the materials you need to make gear while you go and do an explorable dungeon or work on your achievements in the living world.

This doesn’t require that many resources. Half the system was stolen from SWTOR, which is now a free-to-play game. The other half comes from Harvest Moon, which is a buy-once-play-as-much-as-you-want game.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

- Imagine if said explorable dungeons have varying levels of adjusted difficulty for different skill groups, with higher difficulty, cosmetic prestige that showcase your triumphs through harder levels of difficulty representative of each dungeon

These are called fractals. Adding level-specific skins won’t require a huge investment of resources. I don’t see how a sub would expedite this type of system. Even if it did, I don’t really think that adding another ego booster to the game would enhance it.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

- Imagine that we got new sPvE explorable dungeon content

I’m sure that’s coming. We’re getting map zones all the time. New dungeons aren’t harder to make. I suspect that the demand for dungeons isn’t as high in the general population as you think it is.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Imagine if armor transmutation and changing your hair wasn’t locked behind the gemstore but rather normal NPC services available in towns for small bits of cash.

Let me get this straight. You think that being forced to pay a monthly fee for services that you may or may not use is better for players than a pay-as-you-use-it system?

Bottom line: It really sounds like you would rather be playing WoW right now. No one is stopping you from doing that. This game is not WoW, and that’s why many of us play it. Thankfully a couple of months from now when you’ve fully upgraded your garrison and you get tired for running the gear treadmill on yet another raid GW2 will still be here for you at no additional charge. See you then.

you realize you just took an arbitrary example out of context?

DarcShriek.5829:

If they charge any kind of sub, optional or not, I’m out of here.

Agreed. I hate the idea of subs, and like many others, the unique appeal of this game is that it doesn’t have one. I love the setup as is. I believe new major content should be funded by full fledged Expansions (like in GW1) for which I will eagerly hand over my money.

I represent the occasional gamer with a work life. I wouldn’t do subs because there’s the potential for months where I just can’t play and I hate the idea of paying for those.

If you think ANet should charge a sub, then buy at least $15 in gems each month, but leave the rest of us alone.

Mireles Lore.5942:

Why are people trying to make this game into WoW?

If WoW, its features, format of releasing content, and subscription fee were really superior wouldn’t you still be playing WoW instead of trying to turn this game into a WoW clone?

Seriously the WoW format has been beaten to death. Alot of us are here for something different.

shion.2084:

DarcShriek.5829:

If they charge any kind of sub, optional or not, I’m out of here.

Agreed. I hate the idea of subs, and like many others, the unique appeal of this game is that it doesn’t have one. I love the setup as is. I believe new major content should be funded by full fledged Expansions (like in GW1) for which I will eagerly hand over my money.

I represent the occasional gamer with a work life. I wouldn’t do subs because there’s the potential for months where I just can’t play and I hate the idea of paying for those.

Even if it was optional huh? why would it matter for you guys if someone else was rolling in with the royalty pass when it doesn’t even affect you guys? entitled much? (remember this is completely satire)

So, anyone used that teleport to friend consumable yet? I hear its quite the convenience.

hehehehehhe..

hehahahahaahhaha

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Josh.5839:

I think you guys never played a subbed game with consistent updates and content

Be that as it may, a game starting with no sub fee and then hopping up to a sub fee would NEVER EVER go over well with the fans.

I mean, NEVER.

How could it?

The Tee Why.4807:

Josh.5839:

I think you guys never played a subbed game with consistent updates and content

Be that as it may, a game starting with no sub fee and then hopping up to a sub fee would NEVER EVER go over well with the fans.

I mean, NEVER.

How could it?

details my friend and whether it was optional or not.

personal opinion.

If a monthly duration contract were released in the store for say 800 gems which magically made everything else In the gemstore cost 0 gems, I’d buy that in a heartbeat.

Or

A monthly care package with a monthly duration:

unlimited black lion key
unlimited hair style kit
unlimited transmutation stone
complementarily rare dye packs
a stack of black lion tickets
and other flavor of the month event packaging

I’d be buying into that in a heart beat.

Its not a literal subscription model but you can see how I can evade the subject entirely while still pushing for the monetization directive. Wouldn’t be far fetched either given other monetization schemes that have been instantiated as of late.

The only way I can see this happening with out people demanding refunds:

~Loyalty Program/ VIP/ what ever you want to name it:
~$15 a month or w.e. amount of $
~Unlocks a new tier of titles "Supporter/VIP/ w.e.’ “bronze supporter/ vip/ w.e.”
~Buff: +5% PvP rank Points +10% Reward Track Progress + 100% magic find everywhere + 5% WvW rank points + 20% exp gain + 10% gold find + 5% speed boost in pve only
~Progressive Reward track that after 1 year of non-interuptable subscription you’re given 1 precursor of your choice (account bound on acquisition).
~ Your account is automatically enrolled into a special guild (does not eat up one of your 5 guild slots) This guild will have a special VIP or Laurel Icon next to your name (where the ANET logo is) When your subscription runs out, you’re automatically removed from that guild.

It’s something that is not game breaking but will entice players to toss a few more dollars into the basket for anet. $15×12 = 180 usd = 14,400 gems
convert that to gold, that is more than enough to buy a precursor. The only difference is that you’re waiting if you’re paying monthly (could include a 3 month, 6 months, 1 year options?)

So in the end the only benefits from using the cash else where:
Not part of a unique guild with a unique icon by your name
You don’t have buff that will last however long you have a subscription
You don’t have unique titles
And you will miss out on any specialty perks (maybe free festive minis for supporting the game instead of having to buy them, those that don’t have a subscription have to pay for said minis)

yeah, and the people who’d buy such a package are the same type that are buying MORE gems than that anyway. So a sub system would be a loss of money to GW2, because those who used to spend more will spend less, and the others will quit because they refuse to pay for content they don’t know they’ll actually like.

The only ones asking for a sub system are thus people who want to spend less for the same neat stuff but want OTHERS to pay for the supposedly extra content that could possibly be released because anet would supposedly gain more money since more players would maybe be paying them.

Grump.7069:

yeah, and the people who’d buy such a package are the same type that are buying MORE gems than that anyway. So a sub system would be a loss of money to GW2, because those who used to spend more will spend less, and the others will quit because they refuse to pay for content they don’t know they’ll actually like.

The only ones asking for a sub system are thus people who want to spend less for the same neat stuff but want OTHERS to pay for the supposedly extra content that could possibly be released because anet would supposedly gain more money since more players would maybe be paying them.

A very valid counter argument. One could counter argue though that if prices were lower, more people would be buying into it, the goal would be to attempt to make more overall by making less per head count. The care package I have outlined above would serve as such a vessel without taking anything away from the current QoL access of the general populace, a mere premium package that serves as a complete additional.

Filaha.1678:

Bandit.8279:

So about 2 years and 2 months and they were charging you about $180 a year for 2 years ($360) with no updates what-so-ever.

You didn’t play vanilla WoW, did you? That’s a rhetorical question. I know you didn’t, because you’d know this was false.

Blackwing Lair was added in 1.6.
Zul’Gurub was added in 1.7.
Ahn’Qiraj (Temple and Ruins) was added in 1.9.
Naxxramas was added in 1.10.
The dragon world bosses were added in 1.8.
Azuregos and Lord Kazzak world bosses in 1.3.

That’s just raid stuff. That doesn’t include any other things added to the game. It’s not like they went from 1.0 to Burning Crusade.

WoW for me died after 1.7, but I played it without end up until that point till I realized I was so immersed in that game it was effecting my social life. That’s the point I try to make when I say that WoW is a truly successful MMO, because it keeps you immersed. The younger generation has no idea the impact that WoW had on gaming in 2004. That’s the impact that alot of us older folks had hoped that GW2 would have on this generation of gaming and MMO’s, but it didn’t. Anet can’t keep people immersed in the game because not only is it repetitive but the storys are boring and there is no incentive to make your character “better”. Only to make it look better. In WoW you raided and did dungeons because you wanted the best loot to improve your character, in this game there is only 2 pieces that make your character better, and you have to craft them through an endless grind/crafting process.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Bernie.8674:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Let’s jot down some examples of a guildwars 2 equivalent of what it could have with the development effort of blizzard.

Bottom line: It really sounds like you would rather be playing WoW right now. No one is stopping you from doing that. This game is not WoW, and that’s why many of us play it. Thankfully a couple of months from now when you’ve fully upgraded your garrison and you get tired for running the gear treadmill on yet another raid GW2 will still be here for you at no additional charge. See you then.

you realize you just took an arbitrary example out of context?

Which one? I quoted about 90% of your original post and you quoted 100% of mine. I was pretty sure that all your examples were in the context of “imagine what we could have if ArenaNet charged a subscription fee” followed by a detailed description of WoW.

Bernie.8674:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Bernie.8674:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Let’s jot down some examples of a guildwars 2 equivalent of what it could have with the development effort of blizzard.

Bottom line: It really sounds like you would rather be playing WoW right now. No one is stopping you from doing that. This game is not WoW, and that’s why many of us play it. Thankfully a couple of months from now when you’ve fully upgraded your garrison and you get tired for running the gear treadmill on yet another raid GW2 will still be here for you at no additional charge. See you then.

you realize you just took an arbitrary example out of context?

Which one? I quoted about 90% of your original post and you quoted 100% of mine. I was pretty sure that all your examples were in the context of “imagine what we could have if ArenaNet charged a subscription fee” followed by a detailed description of WoW.

By only quoting 90% and not 100% you completely distorted my directive. It was an example to help clarify someone else’s aching pains if you were to read who I quoted who quoted someone else.

You will also see that at the end of my statement that I do not see justification in a subscription mandate for the reasons in that post.

The “imagine what we could have” was to help paint a picture of what he was trying to get at which was not Literally turn GW2 into WoW but rather see some of its accommodation models.

a sub cost doesn’t mean anything, it’s an illusion brought out to whine about a game.
i had this discussion about ESO ones, i think it would benefit from going freemium or B2P.
all i get is “F2P dooms the game” this and “i don’t want to lower the quality of the game” that, all BS arguments.

it seems like ppl think paying a sub makes a game better and that if something go’s free it has to be because the game is doomed, if it’s going freemium it could just as much be because the devs simply want more customers.
the reason the majority of F2P and freemium players only play games like that when they have free access is no other reason then not being able to pay for a sub, a sub is quite a big wall allot of players can not cross.

quite deluding your self, a sub is a business plan, not a mark of quality.

to be perfectly honest, i’d be surprised if an expansion brought in a substantial amount of customers at this point.. let alone trying to inject life into the game with a subscription fee, simply to gain better funded content.. you’re basically expecting exceptional results by putting the carriage in front of the horse

sorudo.9054:

a sub cost doesn’t mean anything, it’s an illusion brought out to whine about a game.
i had this discussion about ESO ones, i think it would benefit from going freemium or B2P.
all i get is “F2P dooms the game” this and “i don’t want to lower the quality of the game” that, all BS arguments.

it seems like ppl think paying a sub makes a game better and that if something go’s free it has to be because the game is doomed, if it’s going freemium it could just as much be because the devs simply want more customers.
the reason the majority of F2P and freemium players only play games like that when they have free access is no other reason then not being able to pay for a sub, a sub is quite a big wall allot of players can not cross.

quite deluding your self, a sub is a business plan, not a mark of quality.

I think that’s a rationalization brought on by years of paying for WoW. WoW is subscription based. WoW has millions of players. Therefore it’s success is tied to it having a subscription. And that’s partially true.

Thing is WoW came out when subscription was THE way to charge for MMOs. It’s eventual success and growth, drawing in millions of players provided them with a huge amount of development funds that then allowed them to steamroll the competition in terms of content updates. It’s so much easier to revamp a game engine or character models or textures if you, for a time, was pulling in a BILLION dollars USD annually in subscriptions. That pays for a lot of extra staff to do projects that can take a while to finish.

MMOs need a constant stream of new content (even if it is only temporary) and if your income stream is only big enough to pay for those developing content, they you don’t have the money to invest in better infrastructure (forums, game engine, etc). That’s not because of cash shop Vs subscription but simply size of your paying playerbase.

One of the reasons that theyre so popular is that theyre not p2p,while still an AAA+ quality mmo with lots of added content and fixes etc.

No, they need an expansion. New skills, classes, customizations etc…

IllegalChocolate.6938:

The “imagine what we could have” was to help paint a picture of what he was trying to get at which was not Literally turn GW2 into WoW but rather see some of its accommodation models.

This is the part I had left out:

I think he means as far as development effort and direction, not actually literally turn GW2 into WoW but the QoL features that it has. Imagine if Anet did their spin with the core game that they have.

I quoted each of those QoL features one at a time and attempted to illustrate why they were uninteresting and/or independent of a sub model. I don’t see what was out of context about that. Regardless:

1. ArenaNet is making enough from the gem shop to fund further development
2. Money isn’t the barrier to implementing the “QoL” features you mentioned
3. Be careful what you ask for. WoW’s sub model dictates that they effectively nerf all existing characters every three months to entice players to jump on yet another gear treadmill, thereby keeping the subs going. Right now you can leave for a year, come back, and have your character participate in all current content in the same manner they did before. That would not be the case under a sub model.

How could they change the model anyway, it was sold as having no subscription.

It’s not just those that are currently playing the game that have active accounts it’s all unbanned accounts are active.

Anyway even if it was subscription doesn’t mean things would be better. In some MMOs the amount made through the shop is worth more than a subscription alone, those that have a means for people to essentially buy in-game currency.

Bernie.8674:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

The “imagine what we could have” was to help paint a picture of what he was trying to get at which was not Literally turn GW2 into WoW but rather see some of its accommodation models.

This is the part I had left out:

I think he means as far as development effort and direction, not actually literally turn GW2 into WoW but the QoL features that it has. Imagine if Anet did their spin with the core game that they have.

I quoted each of those QoL features one at a time and attempted to illustrate why they were uninteresting and/or independent of a sub model. I don’t see what was out of context about that. Regardless:

1. ArenaNet is making enough from the gem shop to fund further development
2. Money isn’t the barrier to implementing the “QoL” features you mentioned
3. Be careful what you ask for. WoW’s sub model dictates that they effectively nerf all existing characters every three months to entice players to jump on yet another gear treadmill, thereby keeping the subs going. Right now you can leave for a year, come back, and have your character participate in all current content in the same manner they did before. That would not be the case under a sub model.

The part you left out was the whole point of the post, everything I said otherwise was in direct support of that part you left out. Allow me to further clarify what I was saying with some make belief dialogue!

Oldirtbeard: I want this
CMM: lol you want that?
IllegalChocolate: No, he’s saying he wants this
Oldirtbeard: yay! Chocolate understands!
IllegalChocolate: Not happening
Oldirtbeard: Awww

Still too confusing? You can unlock some more feedback for just about 28 gems!

By dissecting and separating everything that I said, you destroyed the overall meaning of my post. Its like taking a painting and cutting it into quarters and analyzing each piece by itself, by doing so you’ve destroyed the original meaning of the painting as a whole.

By quoting each of the QoL features and giving your reasoning behind your motives and splitting it out of the body, you literally then made a bottomline statement that had nothing to do with what I was trying to say.

All I was doing was clarifying someone else’s motives, you cut my posts up and told me to go back to WoW, this is what you did.

Josh.5839:

-hardly any new content

-too slow to solve issues

-buggy

etc

Its obvious they cant afford a quality game with the current direction.

think subscription fees mean a non buggy game? go try runescape.

I say guild wars 2 stay how it is. I love this game.

If they allowed Subscriptions I would not be able to pay my Premium Membership for Second Life and Champions Online.

If I had to pay a third Sub for GW2 I would leave my Characters to rot.

As I play other things than just GW2 Alone.

The moment Anet start charging a subscription is the moment I uninstall this game. I will never pay a fee to continue playing something I have already purchased up-front, ever.

I’d rather pay a sub for a quality game than be ‘monetized’. If it lets devs focus on good content instead of cash shop funnels.

Why? I want my free time to be fun.

Why else? 15 bucks a month is literally pocket change per day. Far less than most people pay for cable/bar tabs/movies/you name it each month.

Okay, let’s just assume that ANet’s claims that GW2 is doing fine financially is a complete lie and assume every MMO that charges a subscription fee are successes that regularly patch and update.

And maybe if we close our eyes and plug our ears hard enough, the world will spin the other way.

Chuo.4238:

I’d rather pay a sub for a quality game than be ‘monetized’. If it lets devs focus on good content instead of cash shop funnels.

Why? I want my free time to be fun.

Why else? 15 bucks a month is literally pocket change per day. Far less than most people pay for cable/bar tabs/movies/you name it each month.

Paying a subscription doesn’t mean you will get a better product.

It really comes down to how a company invests their capital/resources. From what I’ve seen the MMO industry isn’t doing very well and haven’t been for sometime. It seems a very stagnant market especially in terms of ideas and execution of those ideas into the existing products.

Azala Yar.7693:

Chuo.4238:

I’d rather pay a sub for a quality game than be ‘monetized’. If it lets devs focus on good content instead of cash shop funnels.

Why? I want my free time to be fun.

Why else? 15 bucks a month is literally pocket change per day. Far less than most people pay for cable/bar tabs/movies/you name it each month.

Paying a subscription doesn’t mean you will get a better product.

It really comes down to how a company invests their capital/resources. From what I’ve seen the MMO industry isn’t doing very well and haven’t been for sometime. It seems a very stagnant market especially in terms of ideas and execution of those ideas into the existing products.

I agree that a sub does not necessarily mean you’re getting a good product. From what I’ve seen, however, there are a few pretty good sub games out there.

The GW2 cash shop is generally annoying, allows you to buy gold (fail!), and rarely has anything interesting in it. Yet the game revolves around it. As with the later years of Guild Wars, I’d be happy to log on and buy costumes, or minipets, and the like. But certainly not gold or gear.

And I’d certainly pay a sub to play a true, well-developed sequel to Guild Wars, and not have to think about a ridiculous cash shop. I’d buy the occasional costume or minipet then, too. And Xpacs. And on and on.

Subscription Fee? No they should not have a subscription fee but they should have something similar too it. They should do what console games have been doing for a while which is having season passes. You pay $20 dollars and you get that full season and all the armors and weapons that come along with it (i am talking about the black lion chest skins and the gemstore armors). Now when i say come along with the Season pass i am saying that you can earn them by completing task varying on difficulty (Not kittening Grinding! Screw the Silver Wastes system, it is kitten). Then for the people that don’t pay the 20 dollars? They get to go to the new areas and get some weapons or armors (for example they would be able to get the bug weapons and armor from this seasons LS) but they don’t get to experience the story and can’t get the BL Armors or skins. So this way eliminates two problems, Anet will get almost everyone (maybe a little less then everyone) paying the $20 dollars or whatever for a full season which will make Anet alot of money and the money grabbing that is the BLC will be close to eliminated making every player happy that they aren’t getting screwed because of a RNG system.

Why would they introduce a subscription after this amount of time? Either you have one from launch or not at all (imo).

Josh.5839:

-hardly any new content

-too slow to solve issues

-buggy

etc

Its obvious they cant afford a quality game with the current direction.

That sounds like Blizzard’s World of Warcraft right there.

A subscription doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to be a better quality.