Guild Wars 2

Was fighting one of those Krait elites the other day, and found another example of what i think is a core issue with PVE combat.

For most of the fight each attack from the krait did about 300 damage.

But out of the blue came a single attack that did 1300!

That is x4 the rest of the attacks.

This was a single attack, and i swear there was no tell. And if it was a crit then the mob was packing a crit damage percentage in the 400% range.

Crap like that is downright bad game design.

Out of curiosity, what armour are you wearing.

Edit: I should add, 1300 is not a how lot of damage, what it the melee krait or the caster.

you got hit by a special attack.

learn the attack animations

and learn to dodge / not stand still

do this and you will see how easy things are to fight. this is not wow dont just stand still hitting it thinking you can out dps it.

What did your combat log say?

I should have guessed…

but that’s how you make a game harder! one shots!

/sarcasm

I got hit by 8.5K two consecutive times within a millisecond by a mob the size a small human concealed in a thousand fire effects. It happens.

Mesket.5728:

but that’s how you make a game harder! one shots!

/sarcasm

Someone gets it.

Is this level 80 content? Honest question, I didn’t played newest content.

BobbyT.7192:

Out of curiosity, what armour are you wearing.

Edit: I should add, 1300 is not a how lot of damage, what it the melee krait or the caster.

Its a lot damage when you are maybe downleveled to 20-25 or whatever in Kessex.
And yes these Elite Mobs do absurd damage often and it isn’t visible at all, took sometimes only 2-3 seconds to loose 90% of my life on my warrior with Knights gear.

BobbyT.7192:

Out of curiosity, what armour are you wearing.

Edit: I should add, 1300 is not a how lot of damage, what it the melee krait or the caster.

Dwayna set. Not the most tanky, not the most glassy (wish those temple armors were sold without the rune preinstalled, so it was easier to mix and match).

And it is not so much that is a big hit. But how high it spikes vs the rest of the damage the mob so doing. The lower general damage lull you into a “i can handle this” and then BAM “where did my health go?!”.

If instead the damage was higher in general, it would be much easier to notice one was in over ones head and get out before being downed.

haviz.1340:

Is this level 80 content? Honest question, I didn’t played newest content.

No, its lvl ~20.

1300 dmg would be around ~10K in a lvl 80 content.

haviz.1340:

Is this level 80 content? Honest question, I didn’t played newest content.

The silver toxic krait patroling the tower walkways in Kessex.

krixis.9538:

you got hit by a special attack.

learn the attack animations

and learn to dodge / not stand still

do this and you will see how easy things are to fight. this is not wow dont just stand still hitting it thinking you can out dps it.

First time fighting it, and didn’t notice any tell. It just kinda did a spin in front of me and i watched the globe drop sharply.

And with the varied number of mobs in this game i do not have the capacity to learn every last attack pattern unless i spend my day farming the same kitten champs over and over.

digiowl.9620:

The silver toxic krait patroling the tower walkways in Kessex.

There are also Nightmare Court ? Elite Mobs in the events and some of them do really bad ranged damage mixed with constant spam of conditions.

digiowl.9620:

The silver toxic krait patroling the tower walkways in Kessex.

Silver as in elites?

digiowl.9620:

krixis.9538:

you got hit by a special attack.

learn the attack animations

and learn to dodge / not stand still

do this and you will see how easy things are to fight. this is not wow dont just stand still hitting it thinking you can out dps it.

First time fighting it, and didn’t notice any tell. It just kinda did a spin in front of me and i watched the globe drop sharply.

And with the varied number of mobs in this game i do not have the capacity to learn every last attack pattern unless i spend my day farming the same kitten champs over and over.

Whoa wait, you’re talking about the Elite mob? You’re saying that they do too much damage? They are between Veteran and Champion! They should borderline one shot you, which is exactly what you described…

Sounds like everything is working normally then. Silver mobs are meant for groups, not solo. If you can solo it more power to you, but if you can’t you don’t get to complain about it.

I’d hate to see what OP would say if he played WvW where you’d have to worry about an invisible attack from a thief dealing 8K+ in damage every few seconds.

Silly PVErs….

Draknar.5748:

digiowl.9620:

krixis.9538:

you got hit by a special attack.

learn the attack animations

and learn to dodge / not stand still

do this and you will see how easy things are to fight. this is not wow dont just stand still hitting it thinking you can out dps it.

First time fighting it, and didn’t notice any tell. It just kinda did a spin in front of me and i watched the globe drop sharply.

And with the varied number of mobs in this game i do not have the capacity to learn every last attack pattern unless i spend my day farming the same kitten champs over and over.

Whoa wait, you’re talking about the Elite mob? You’re saying that they do too much damage? They are between Veteran and Champion! They should borderline one shot you, which is exactly what you described…

Sounds like everything is working normally then. Silver mobs are meant for groups, not solo. If you can solo it more power to you, but if you can’t you don’t get to complain about it.

Group or not, what i am talking about is that the damage curve goes from flat to vertical to flat again in the space of a single second. And the flat damage is easily manageable solo, while the vertical spike can wipe you or not depending on when it happens. That is not good game design, as you go from seemingly a manageable threat to a in your face hydrogen bomb in the space of a single second.

EvilSardine.9635:

I’d hate to see what OP would say if he played WvW where you’d have to worry about an invisible attack from a thief dealing 8K+ in damage every few seconds.

Silly PVErs….

And? I keep seeing complaints about said thieves. And ganker mentality in general is why i avoid playing PVP no matter what game.

Maybe its just that these Elite Mobs need other Icons, since the Icon simply doesn’t look much different to normal mobs and so you don’t expect that damage. And also that this type of mob runs nowhere else around in the open World. At least i never noticed them beside Zerg Events before.

I remember one release where the champs in Orr were instagibing for 20k+. With several of them up at one time that’s instant defeat out of the particle blur. This has been a problem in the game since forever and does not make for interesting, skilled combat. I would really like them to change the way they understand challenge. I consider a challenging encounter to be one where, if you die, you can do a post-mortem, understand why you died, and learn from it. In GW2, too often your only mistake was entering combat.

EvilSardine.9635:

I’d hate to see what OP would say if he played WvW where you’d have to worry about an invisible attack from a thief dealing 8K+ in damage every few seconds.

Silly PVErs….

1 took my necro down in less than 2 seconds. I was mapping around, minding my own business. All of a sudden, out of nowhere. Splat! 16k and the rest of it. I was only in greens so I must been a sittin’ duck.

No rules. No morals. Dirty tricks. Give wvw a competitive edge that PvE just doesn’t have.

Raine.1394:

I remember one release where the champs in Orr were instagibing for 20k+.

They hit like a little kitten.

Keep lords in WvW can hit 2200+ toughness builds for 50K damage.

It’s just part of the game. I understand you don’t like this aspect, but it’s what anet did in order to remove the trinity. You can regen/facetank small attacks, but you need to be ready to dodge the heavy ones.

I don’t know how long you’ve been playing, but if it’s going to bug you that much, you might want to search for a different game, because it only gets worse.

However, I do have an issue with all the effects that prevent you from seeing tells.

Dawdler.8521:

Raine.1394:

I remember one release where the champs in Orr were instagibing for 20k+.

They hit like a little kitten.

Keep lords in WvW can hit 2200+ toughness builds for 50K damage.

and you think that’s ok?

It doesn’t sound very smart….

Can you imagine a meeting between this guys?

- Hey, I think the keeplord should hit for 65K damage…
- No, thats to much, make it 45K
- Ok, lets agree on 50K damage… sounds about right.

(?)

If they want to insta kill you,… its easier, saves code and processing.

I wouldn’t mind spike damage provided it was always made absolutely clear to the player that the attack is coming their way and is going to hurt. The problem is that in far too many instances the attack is so badly telegraphed/ not telegraphed at all meaning you either don’t get enough time to react or you didn’t even see it coming.
Possibly one of the worst offenders would be the AoE cast by Captain Ashym in the Urban Battlegrounds fractal. It’s a meteor storm that can drop a player from full hp to downed to dead in seconds yet is only telegraphed via subtle boss animations; animations which are frequently hidden behind particle effects and charr npcs. There isn’t even a red circle as far as I have ever seen which breaks the games own rules about AoE’s.

Tyrannus Blade.3408:

I wouldn’t mind spike damage provided it was always made absolutely clear to the player that the attack is coming their way and is going to hurt. The problem is that in far too many instances the attack is so badly telegraphed/ not telegraphed at all meaning you either don’t get enough time to react or you didn’t even see it coming.
Possibly one of the worst offenders would be the AoE cast by Captain Ashym in the Urban Battlegrounds fractal. It’s a meteor storm that can drop a player from full hp to downed to dead in seconds yet is only telegraphed via subtle boss animations; animations which are frequently hidden behind particle effects and charr npcs. There isn’t even a red circle as far as I have ever seen which breaks the games own rules about AoE’s.

Meteor shower never has red AOE. It’s pretty easy to dodge though. If you start to see it raining meteors just dodge out. One hit shouldn’t take your health down. I’m a full zerker mesmer and it takes 2/3 before it downs me.

Beldin.5498:

Its a lot damage when you are maybe downleveled to 20-25 or whatever in Kessex.
And yes these Elite Mobs do absurd damage often and it isn’t visible at all, took sometimes only 2-3 seconds to loose 90% of my life on my warrior with Knights gear.

Well was it upscaled or not? I can imagine fighting an elite solo when there is 30 players fighting doing a toxic event nearby to be it a little tricky, but a solo elite is easy peasy.

I recorded a quick video when I was doing my daily: http://youtu.be/Y22QZFGvqOg
I see no spike damage at all, its just boring

digiowl.9620:

Was fighting one of those Krait elites the other day, and found another example of what i think is a core issue with PVE combat.

For most of the fight each attack from the krait did about 300 damage.

But out of the blue came a single attack that did 1300!

That is x4 the rest of the attacks.

This was a single attack, and i swear there was no tell. And if it was a crit then the mob was packing a crit damage percentage in the 400% range.

Crap like that is downright bad game design.

1300? Dang, I got hit by some that were 2800 (Im level 42 wearing Toughness, Vitality, and Power Gear), and with all the people around him, and the particle effects it really is hard to see them winding up to do something major.

Pretty much every attack has some kind of an unique tell. However they may seem very subtle or non-existent if you aren’t looking properly.

If you have problems with some enemy I suggest playing very passively and just observing it for a while.

extra subtle tells + overdone particle effects = bad design

I turned off post processing, now I can see everything!

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Elite mobs is not supposed to be balanced around solo-play, they are made for small groups of players.

Raine.1394:

In GW2, too often your only mistake was entering combat.

The Truth™

digiowl.9620:

Was fighting one of those Krait elites the other day, and found another example of what i think is a core issue with PVE combat.

For most of the fight each attack from the krait did about 300 damage.

But out of the blue came a single attack that did 1300!

That is x4 the rest of the attacks.

This was a single attack, and i swear there was no tell. And if it was a crit then the mob was packing a crit damage percentage in the 400% range.

Crap like that is downright bad game design.

Hi OP

The reason you take so much damage from these is because you are running wrong build and wrong gear and wrong party comp or you dont have a party at all. Adjusting traits, gear, party comp to the situation at hand is a huge part of the game and requires some knowledge and player skill in itself.

I strongly disagree with you. part of the problem in this game up to date with PVE content is that it is too easy and optimized for all out direct DPS and autoattack.

It is nice to see content where builds other then 30 30 x x x and gear other then full zerker are useful.

While this game does not have a traditional tank, healer, dps scheme, it was originally supposed to work on a DPS / Support / Control scheme, but the devs made the content far too weak and messed up on the bosses so they are immune to the “control”.

It is nice to see them start to take small steps to remedy that as they move forward with future game content.