Guild Wars 2

I have tried to NOT read anything about the trait changes but no matter what I seem to do I keep finding out more about them and IT bothers me that it is starting to sound like the same crap Blizzard did to WoW and Bioware did to SWToR ..

there were a lot of people that said WoW changes didn’t change much since you usually chose builds BUT there was some variance and a feel of growth for your character as you leveled UNTIL they made the NEW and IMPROVED trait tree that basically gave you 1 of 3 choices every 15 levels after 30th i think it was and 2 of the 3 often were useless or only useful in certain circumstances.

SWToR changed their tree into a “read railroad” type deal which gave few choices and once the choice came up it was you chose what your you wanted to do be it DPS or Tank or healer.

I want choices .. HEY sure i might be nerfing myself BUT I want to be able to do it and sometimes these substandard builds have a use like for soloing or certain play styles

What I think GW2 needs IS for you to turn BACK the game a bit and MAKE us earn our weapon abilities again like we used to and earn the skill points to actually choose our skills (maybe increase some to 2 skill points if tougher ones or give 2 extra every 10 levels), and either remove the trait unlocks OR at least set them up so that the ones NO on the grand master list were not going to take FAR too long to get (those zone completes are insane sometimes as you badly out level content trying to get them done JUST for the one stupid trait point and IF unlucky you might have to do this repeatedly).

It is frustrating to have to earn something in a game maybe BUT i am tired of games that are really “dress up the dolly” games that every character is the same in effect and there is no difference same appearance and MAYBE weapons .. I can play doom2 and do that and that is a 20 year old FPS

No zone completion in the new Skill/Trait implementation. It is all based on Hero Points (formerly known as Skill Points).

Good luck.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

No zone completion in the new Skill/Trait implementation. It is all based on Hero Points (formerly known as Skill Points).

Good luck.

How disrespectful! Didn’t you hear him say he’s been trying to avoid hearing any actual information about the system?

Weirwynn.2390:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

No zone completion in the new Skill/Trait implementation. It is all based on Hero Points (formerly known as Skill Points).

Good luck.

How disrespectful! Didn’t you hear him say he’s been trying to avoid hearing any actual information about the system?

How can he have his irrational fears now? Really some people.

Weirwynn.2390:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

No zone completion in the new Skill/Trait implementation. It is all based on Hero Points (formerly known as Skill Points).

Good luck.

How disrespectful! Didn’t you hear him say he’s been trying to avoid hearing any actual information about the system?

Well he can’t really complain about false/incomplete information and not expect some information.

If it helps, as vague as possible. Build numbers will go down, viable builds will go up. It forces harder decisions. It’s not NEARLY as limiting as WoWs “remake” which actually changed from traits to abilities essentially. The core trait system will still be very familiar after the update. Cool your jets and just try it out first.

d(‘-’d)

Oh geez. My bad.

Still, it doesn’t seem logical to complain about misinformation.

Again, my apologies, OP. Ignore the man behind the curtain!

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Oh geez. My bad.

Still, it doesn’t seem logical to complain about misinformation.

Again, my apologies, OP. Ignore the man behind the curtain!

might be sarcasm BUT they aren’t necessarily IRRATIONAL ..

Bioware said they weren’t doing the same thing WoW had done and though the graphics to the “trait” tree or railroad was different IT was the same thing..

hey I won’t say another thing about it though as IT is their game .. and the yes men have the floor I guess ..

The yes men have helped WoW with their 13 billion players down to a much more manageable number and SWToR had a smaller community (not unlike GW2 but GWs was a bit bigger AT times but only because the game is FTP) but it has shrunk quickly with the advent of the changes.

shaman.1938:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Oh geez. My bad.

Still, it doesn’t seem logical to complain about misinformation.

Again, my apologies, OP. Ignore the man behind the curtain!

might be sarcasm BUT they aren’t necessarily IRRATIONAL ..

Bioware said they weren’t doing the same thing WoW had done and though the graphics to the “trait” tree or railroad was different IT was the same thing..

hey I won’t say another thing about it though as IT is their game .. and the yes men have the floor I guess ..

The yes men have helped WoW with their 13 billion players down to a much more manageable number and SWToR had a smaller community (not unlike GW2 but GWs was a bit bigger AT times but only because the game is FTP) but it has shrunk quickly with the advent of the changes.

Why can’t these sheeple recognize that any change is bad, and they’re just blinded by their fondness for the game?

ronpierce.2760:

Weirwynn.2390:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

No zone completion in the new Skill/Trait implementation. It is all based on Hero Points (formerly known as Skill Points).

Good luck.

How disrespectful! Didn’t you hear him say he’s been trying to avoid hearing any actual information about the system?

Well he can’t really complain about false/incomplete information and not expect some information.

If it helps, as vague as possible. Build numbers will go down, viable builds will go up. It forces harder decisions. It’s not NEARLY as limiting as WoWs “remake” which actually changed from traits to abilities essentially. The core trait system will still be very familiar after the update. Cool your jets and just try it out first.

d(‘-’d)

The number of viable builds go down.

Ashen.2907:

ronpierce.2760:

Weirwynn.2390:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

No zone completion in the new Skill/Trait implementation. It is all based on Hero Points (formerly known as Skill Points).

Good luck.

How disrespectful! Didn’t you hear him say he’s been trying to avoid hearing any actual information about the system?

Well he can’t really complain about false/incomplete information and not expect some information.

If it helps, as vague as possible. Build numbers will go down, viable builds will go up. It forces harder decisions. It’s not NEARLY as limiting as WoWs “remake” which actually changed from traits to abilities essentially. The core trait system will still be very familiar after the update. Cool your jets and just try it out first.

d(‘-’d)

The number of viable builds go down.

That is incorrect. The number of ACTUAL viable builds go up. Not the number of “I like to take 100 adepts and call it a ‘unique build’”. Right now diversity is abysmal because half the traits are garbage. This new system also allows them better control, meaning making adjustments to traits lacking increases. This new system also forces harder decisions than the old system.

ronpierce.2760:

Ashen.2907:

ronpierce.2760:

Weirwynn.2390:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

No zone completion in the new Skill/Trait implementation. It is all based on Hero Points (formerly known as Skill Points).

Good luck.

How disrespectful! Didn’t you hear him say he’s been trying to avoid hearing any actual information about the system?

Well he can’t really complain about false/incomplete information and not expect some information.

If it helps, as vague as possible. Build numbers will go down, viable builds will go up. It forces harder decisions. It’s not NEARLY as limiting as WoWs “remake” which actually changed from traits to abilities essentially. The core trait system will still be very familiar after the update. Cool your jets and just try it out first.

d(‘-’d)

The number of viable builds go down.

That is incorrect. The number of ACTUAL viable builds go up. Not the number of “I like to take 100 adepts and call it a ‘unique build’”. Right now diversity is abysmal because half the traits are garbage. This new system also allows them better control, meaning making adjustments to traits lacking increases. This new system also forces harder decisions than the old system.

You are mistaken.

The total number of builds goes down. Essentially 100% of current builds are viable. So the number of viable builds goes down. Viable does not mean optimal.

ronpierce.2760:

Ashen.2907:

The number of viable builds go down.

That is incorrect. The number of ACTUAL viable builds go up.

Any minute I assume you will both provide your sources that clearly number exactly how many “viable” builds exist in the current system and the new system in order to prove that these claims have weight beyond “It’s my opinion and so obviously indisputable”.

While you’re at it, presumably also providing a definition of “viable” that will be accepted by both the “literally every possible build is viable” and “literally only the best possible builds are viable” crowds without them arguing over it for a thousand years.

ExtraCosmic.9082:

ronpierce.2760:

Ashen.2907:

The number of viable builds go down.

That is incorrect. The number of ACTUAL viable builds go up.

Any minute I assume you will both provide your sources that clearly number exactly how many “viable” builds exist in the current system and the new system in order to prove that these claims have weight beyond “It’s my opinion and so obviously indisputable”.

While you’re at it, presumably also providing a definition of “viable” that will be accepted by both the “literally every possible build is viable” and “literally only the best possible builds are viable” crowds without them arguing over it for a thousand years.

The number of possible combinations (builds) goes down. All current builds are viable as viable means functional. So, if the total number of possible builds goes down, and all builds are viable (players have demonstrated that even not choosing traits is viable), the total number of viable builds goes down.

shaman.1938:

I have tried to NOT read anything about the trait changes but no matter what I seem to do I keep finding out more about them and IT bothers me that it is starting to sound like the same crap Blizzard did to WoW and Bioware did to SWToR ..

I disagree that it’s crap. Their old talent tree system has its fun parts, but it’s too easy to be a trap for players. Also makes future content hard to balance for the lowest common denominator. Things like this create further divides in the playerbase, commonly called elites vs casuals. WOW/SWTOR’s current system is pretty good, everyone has the essential tools they need to function, and they still get to make meaningful choices based on their survival/utility preference. When you can’t mess up the basics of the class, it becomes more of a skill test between everyone.

I’m not here to argue with people with their finger on the trigger to hate the new system. You can think whatever you want to think. But from a PVP perspective, there are so many things i could have never dreamed of doing before. Simply put, there are more MEANINGFUL variations than there ever was because of the merging of traits and 3 GMs.

I’m not going to get into the argument of where viable and optimal collide because frankly, I don’t care. Optimal means very little because where choice can be made, more than one thing can be optimal at once just in different ways, thats what a trade off is. Feel free to hate it because you’re losing your precious 1/6/6/1 builds or whatever, but the fact is, there are build types and mixtures that were never even conceivable prior to trait merges and 3 GMs.

ronpierce.2760:

I’m not here to argue with people with their finger on the trigger to hate the new system. You can think whatever you want to think. But from a PVP perspective, there are so many things i could have never dreamed of doing before. Simply put, there are more MEANINGFUL variations than there ever was because of the merging of traits and 3 GMs.

I’m not going to get into the argument of where viable and optimal collide because frankly, I don’t care. Optimal means very little because where choice can be made, more than one thing can be optimal at once just in different ways, thats what a trade off is. Feel free to hate it because you’re losing your precious 1/6/6/1 builds or whatever, but the fact is, there are build types and mixtures that were never even conceivable prior to trait merges and 3 GMs.

I don’t hate or dislike it. Just noted that you commented about someone else comaining about false information while posting false information yourself. I think discussions are more likely to be productive if participants dont spread misinformation to support their preferences.

This most recent post of yours is much more helpful to the discussion (IMO) because it more accurately describes your real position.

Personally I like the idea of more meaningful trade offs and choices.

shaman.1938:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Oh geez. My bad.

Still, it doesn’t seem logical to complain about misinformation.

Again, my apologies, OP. Ignore the man behind the curtain!

might be sarcasm BUT they aren’t necessarily IRRATIONAL ..

Bioware said they weren’t doing the same thing WoW had done and though the graphics to the “trait” tree or railroad was different IT was the same thing..

hey I won’t say another thing about it though as IT is their game .. and the yes men have the floor I guess ..

The yes men have helped WoW with their 13 billion players down to a much more manageable number and SWToR had a smaller community (not unlike GW2 but GWs was a bit bigger AT times but only because the game is FTP) but it has shrunk quickly with the advent of the changes.

No idea what part of your post was or was not irrational; I was just clearing up the misinformation that a player would need to clear a map to gain a Trait. Only leveling up and Hero Challenges (aka Skill Challenges) will award Hero Points, which will be used to obtain skills and traits.

As for creating builds (viable or no), more or less, I have no comment whatsoever.

Captain Unusual.9163:

Why can’t these sheeple recognize that any change is bad, and they’re just blinded by their fondness for the game?

I’m sorry. I can’t tell if your post is sarcastic or not, largely because I simply cannot get over your use of that…. that…. thing. (It’s not a word! It’s NOT!)

shaman.1938:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Oh geez. My bad.

Still, it doesn’t seem logical to complain about misinformation.

Again, my apologies, OP. Ignore the man behind the curtain!

might be sarcasm BUT they aren’t necessarily IRRATIONAL ..

Bioware said they weren’t doing the same thing WoW had done and though the graphics to the “trait” tree or railroad was different IT was the same thing..

hey I won’t say another thing about it though as IT is their game .. and the yes men have the floor I guess ..

The yes men have helped WoW with their 13 billion players down to a much more manageable number and SWToR had a smaller community (not unlike GW2 but GWs was a bit bigger AT times but only because the game is FTP) but it has shrunk quickly with the advent of the changes.

Except that anet have been quite clear on what and how traits are getting changed and you are working of an uneducated basis.

You can fear and moan all you want in darkness, or you could read up on how the system changes and actually contribute to the disscussion.

That is what people have been pointing out.

What you stated about WoW and SWToR is untrue. Those games experienced dwindeling numbers due to many reasons, none of which can be attributed to a single change.

- WoW is fricking 10 years old. Their player retention has declined and a lot less players start the game from scratch. That is absolutely normal for a game that age

- SWToR was a blant WoW clone with star wars liscence which did many of the things worse than WoW (and other comparable mmos). It got boring fast once the novelty wore off

Games need changes time to time. You dont need to farm, just adapt

I’m very hyped about new traits changed. YES it has it’s bad sides. But i see much more improvement and meta shifts from they already revealed.

No qq just hype.

#asaplscausei’mbored