Guild Wars 2

Trying to figure out why all these ‘veteran players’ with ‘8 level 80s’ are so kittened off over the new onboarding process, but I can only come up with 2 real theories (not mutually exclusive);

1) kittened off key farmers raising a ruckus.

2) Gamer moral panic over the outrage du jour (last month it was SAB).

It really makes no sense to be so very very mad over something that effects you so very very little.

or 3) planned to level another 10 chars to 80 because that´s at least some kind of content.

4) people who understand this game is way too simple to be this dumbed down, because I create characters and this game is extremely easy. People should learn rather than getting spoon fed. Also, can never please a whiteknight so I’ll move on

PS nothing I say is proven to be fact, I’m expressing my opinions and my opinions only, you rabid whiteknights go about your fact only bsns pls.

They’re angry because a tutorial experience is forced upon them when they’re creating alts.

Which is understandable.
But the amount of raging, lack of constructive feedback, egocentric/short-sighted/irrelevant reasoning hurts my brain.

3) Is a ludicrously bad lie, and you know it. It’s not even good sarcasm

4) Isn’t a reason for why it effects you, is this just existential outrage over ‘dumbing down’? Because that would fit under theory 2.

butch.8136:

They’re angry because a tutorial experience is forced upon them when they’re creating alts.

Which is understandable.
But the amount of raging, lack of constructive feedback, egocentric/short-sighted/irrelevant reasoning hurts my brain.

Wonderfully said.

Windsagio.1340:

Trying to figure out why all these ‘veteran players’ with ‘8 level 80s’ are so kittened off over the new onboarding process, but I can only come up with 2 real theories (not mutually exclusive);

1) kittened off key farmers raising a ruckus.

2) Gamer moral panic over the outrage du jour (last month it was SAB).

It really makes no sense to be so very very mad over something that effects you so very very little.

The forums explode every patch…it’s been a running theme since launch.

Maybe I’m just old and tired, but I don’t care. I whiz by the stuff I don’t need to know and go about my business. In an hour I got a tenth level character I can more or less use.

5) Was planning on rolling an alt but decided to wait until after patch to check new leveling, and was sorely disappointed.

6) Trying to get my wife to play more and was excited because it was supposed to be “easier and user friendly” and am upset that it makes it needlessly more complicated.

“3) planned to level another 10 chars to 80 because that´s at least some kind of content.”
“3) Is a ludicrously bad lie, and you know it.”

Not really. Some people are just like that. I could never do it, but I know one woman in my guild would make new characters and do world complete on them just because she enjoyed it. She had like 2-3 of every class in various races I think? I forget. And my guild leader has at least three warriors. Not everyone makes one of each char/class and stops there.

Windsagio.1340:

Trying to figure out why all these ‘veteran players’ with ‘8 level 80s’ are so kittened off over the new onboarding process, but I can only come up with 2 real theories (not mutually exclusive);

1) kittened off key farmers raising a ruckus.

2) Gamer moral panic over the outrage du jour (last month it was SAB).

It really makes no sense to be so very very mad over something that effects you so very very little.

Maybe you have to dig a little bit deeper and apply a bit more thought to the subject if you want to figure it out.

Personally, I’m annoyed about these changes not for the silly reasons you listed, but because they go against the spirit of the game.

Let me quote you one of the developers: Colin Johanson: In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. (source:http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/ArenaNet's_MMO_Manifesto_trailer)

With this feature patch they turned the general feeling of the game exactly in that one direction they wanted to avoid. And the only reason they give us is because new players were confused?

I just can’t imagine the developers doing that. Going against their own principles and turning a game that was about “do what you want, how you want” into a boring chore where everything is timegated and restricted. This must be some marketing monkey from NCsoft meddling with us.

Some people defend everything anybody in a position of authority over them does and lash out and people who dare to complain. I believe such people harm the game far more than anybody who complains about things ever could.

I’m unhappy almost exclusively because I like roaming low-level zones on my level 80 for fun.

On top of the removed conditions and removed “sophisticated” tactics for fights, a bunch of little interactions were removed as well. I just can’t have as much fun as I used to.

Not a huge deal, I suppose. Just a little sad. I guess for me it’s just your everyday disappointment.

Oh, and also downleveling for lower level characters has gone haywire, although I can’t pretend that it really affects me. I only care because it seems completely backwards, and I’m worried that it will be played off as a feature.

…And the jumbled up Personal Story. I hate the idea of losing or fragmenting any story.

But that’s it. Probably.

Straylight.7529:

Windsagio.1340:

Trying to figure out why all these ‘veteran players’ with ‘8 level 80s’ are so kittened off over the new onboarding process, but I can only come up with 2 real theories (not mutually exclusive);

1) kittened off key farmers raising a ruckus.

2) Gamer moral panic over the outrage du jour (last month it was SAB).

It really makes no sense to be so very very mad over something that effects you so very very little.

Maybe you have to dig a little bit deeper and apply a bit more thought to the subject.

Personally, I’m annoyed about these changes not for the silly reasons you listed, but because they go against the spirit of the game.

Let me quote you one of the developers: Colin Johanson: In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. (source:http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/ArenaNet's_MMO_Manifesto_trailer)

With this feature patch they turned the general feeling of the game exactly in that one direction they wanted to avoid. And the only reason they give us is because new players were confused?

I just can’t imagine the developers doing that. Going against their own principles and turning a game that was about “do what you want, how you want” into a boring chore where everything is timegated and restricted. This must be some marketing monkey from NCsoft meddling with us.

If you’re legitimately worked up over the way you think they didn’t match the manifesto (in ONBOARDING), let me leave you with this (Eliot).

Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow

7) The opaque reasoning for these changes, which hurts my brain
8) Realization that we have fewer actual new features because the devs had to work on these changes
9) Recognition that a diminished experience for new players results in fewer players staying, which harms the game’s long term prospects

I have 6 level 80s. My seventh is in the 40s, and I level him occasionally when my wife plays. It was a pain to have his trait points drastically reduced.

I have an eighth slot that was supposed to be my final character for the final profession I haven’t used. I was planning on levelling that character with my son. No way I’m going to slog through the new trait system and now new delayed mechanics system, though.

So I play my high levels with my son, and that eighth slot remains a silly Norn character I made to demonstrate that there are animals in the world of appropriate size to act as mounts for Norn characters.

I have three 80s, and six others at various levels from the 10s to the 70s. Just because I’ve been playing from the beginning and have a bunch of endgame stuff doesn’t mean I’m not also playing lower content. It took a year to get my best friend to try GW2, and the characters I level with him are gonna suffer due to the changes in this patch.

So yeah, the new process is irritating, and it’s not just irritating to the keyfarmers.

Because the top players are upset that the new business model shifts the focus of games to the center and left of the standard curve. Whether it’s numbers, intelligence, physical capabilities, etc. game companies are deciding to make games accessible to those in the market that have been ignored, talked badly about, and basically abused within games. As this experiment goes on, all we can do as a community one of two things, is try to understand it, help those new to the gaming world gain traction and understanding and hope for the best….or leave.

I would point out that as this trend grows, gaming will change, creating a niche for those in the top 2% of gaming. This has shown to work with games like Dark Souls, some of the newer space sims, EVE online, etc.

I had a warrior.

I dolled up two alts: a thief and an engie.

unfortunately, due to waiting for a friend to join me, I did not level them past 15.

Guess how much I’m going to play them if I have to get my hand held through 40 levels.

DraconicDak.9340:

I have three 80s, and six others at various levels from the 10s to the 70s. Just because I’ve been playing from the beginning and have a bunch of endgame stuff doesn’t mean I’m not also playing lower content. It took a year to get my best friend to try GW2, and the characters I level with him are gonna suffer due to the changes in this patch.

So yeah, the new process is irritating, and it’s not just irritating to the keyfarmers.

Affirmative. The new system is annoying for everyone. Thus, it is working as intended.
Now, let’s go back to spamming 1!

Bertrand.3057:

7) The opaque reasoning for these changes, which hurts my brain
8) Realization that we have fewer actual new features because the devs had to work on these changes
9) Recognition that a diminished experience for new players results in fewer players staying, which harms the game’s long term prospects

to specifics;
7) They’ve been pretty clear
8) By the description of the feature pack process, they have teams working on each feature in parallel, this probably didn’t directly cannibalize another feature too much.
9) Between being actual specialized designers and the vast amount of user data they have, how can you say that you know better than them whether this will help or harm the new user experience?

Roybe.5896:

Because the top players are upset that the new business model shifts the focus of games to the center and left of the standard curve.

If this is the experience merely for those to the center and left of the curve then I’ll withdraw my complaint because we are doomed as a society already. I didn’t realise Anet was in the business of creating games for special needs

I’m just glad I have enough characters, and enough birthday presents, that I can realistically give every single one I make an instant 20.

The new system needs revisions, really soon. This is not good enough.

I enjoy making alts. I enjoyed the old system of leveling progression. What I don’t like is being locked out of my full character until 40 (halfway through leveling!). That said, I do like the new leveling rewards (if they’d fix the down leveling issue with stats, maybe by giving stats for every level again).That is what makes me dislike this change.

On the less frustrating part of the spectrum, I am worried about them catering to players that don’t make investments in learning a game. From my experience, those players tend not to stick around long (or provide monetary investments) anyway.

I, and others, have said it multiple times. If they make the “tutorial” optional (including getting your elite at level 40), I would be content.

Windsagio.1340:

to specifics;
7) They’ve been pretty clear
8) By the description of the feature pack process, they have teams working on each feature in parallel, this probably didn’t directly cannibalize another feature too much.
9) Between being actual specialized designers and the vast amount of user data they have, how can you say that you know better than them whether this will help or harm the new user experience?

7) Clear about their goals and what the changes are or about how restricting content accomplishes those goals? Those aren’t the same thing.
8) No, just whichever one it took priority over being done at all.
9) Maybe I can’t, but new players can and have.

Bertrand.3057:

Roybe.5896:

Because the top players are upset that the new business model shifts the focus of games to the center and left of the standard curve.

If this experience is merely for those to the center and left of the curve then I’ll withdraw my complaint because we are doomed as a society already. I didn’t realise Anet was in the business of creating games for special needs

You do realize that the center of the curve is where ‘average’ is defined? 1 Standard deviation away in both directions = roughly 70% of a market? Why should a company cater to less than roughly 2% of a market when they could make so much more from the 70%?

Yeah, the implication is that 70% of the market shouldn’t have had any problem with the existing system. My first sentence was incomplete, I guess.

I’m pretty sure many players in this forum are no where near these benchmarks, but well above them. That’s the problem. Kind of like the ‘first world problem’ meme. We are so attuned to playing that mechanics aren’t that much to adjust to. This is what is driving game companies now. They are attempting to bring in people that are completely new to the market and realize to do this will alienate their current playerbase. However, profits drive business. If NCSoft demands that the game becomes more accessible to access this new market, Arenanet has little choice but to comply. If this is an internal change to better the accessibility from research, then it shows how far out of touch all developers are with their game design, and how far the 2% have moved the curve of access denial. Which makes sense. From the amount of dislike I’ve seen in games aimed at the new, uninitiated, slow to learn population. If the 2% can make the game interesting enough for them, then they can limit the inputs of those that want to play but have been told they suck so often that they do not bother.

pdavis.8031:

5) Was planning on rolling an alt but decided to wait until after patch to check new leveling, and was sorely disappointed.

6) Trying to get my wife to play more and was excited because it was supposed to be “easier and user friendly” and am upset that it makes it needlessly more complicated.

5) Right on.

6) Same, except the wife part. I’m actually embarrassed to tell my non-GW2 friends to come to the game now. I’ll be testing it out with an open mind, but I expect to be disappointed.

Rauderi.8706:

pdavis.8031:

5) Was planning on rolling an alt but decided to wait until after patch to check new leveling, and was sorely disappointed.

6) Trying to get my wife to play more and was excited because it was supposed to be “easier and user friendly” and am upset that it makes it needlessly more complicated.

5) Right on.

6) Same, except the wife part. I’m actually embarrassed to tell my non-GW2 friends to come to the game now. I’ll be testing it out with an open mind, but I expect to be disappointed.

You get what you expect.

Roybe, I think there’s a bit of confusion about the point I’m making which started with the unfortunately ambiguous phrasing from my first response.

If the intention is to bring this game to new demographics as you suggest, then my question is what do the most controversial changes do to assist with that? I don’t think people really have a problem with tool tips and the like, it’s the very poorly paced level restrictions. The way it was before was an “at your own pace” kind of thing, but now limiting what players are allowed to do does nothing to help those who can’t find or follow instructions while annoying everyone else. Someone’s grandmother isn’t going to find it any more helpful that she now has just one button to click 50 times to kill the tutorial boss than an experienced gamer, and that experience does nothing to help her with the next part of the game.

The problem is that the most controversial changes aren’t controversial because of the changes themselves but because of various factors of player psychology.

Roybe.5896:

You get what you expect.

I don’t think that’s actually a saying.

And no, you don’t always get what you expect. That’s where the term “pleasantly surprised” comes from.

Mostly 2 I would say. It’s always a raging time on the GW2 forums, and when there’s a new thing to be upset about, it’s like everybody forgets about what they didn’t like last week. People like to think they’re better than each other for any reason imaginable.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Roybe.5896:

You get what you expect.

I don’t think that’s actually a saying.

And no, you don’t always get what you expect. That’s where the term “pleasantly surprised” comes from.

I prefer “serendipity.”

Let me start off by saying grouping ANY large sum of people into two groups is an exercise destined for failure. Ask five people for their thoughts, you’ll get eight opinions.

While I am sure there are A LOT of people who decided LONG ago that the new leveling method was going to be terrible and were going to hate it no matter what, and a lot of that venomous rage is bubbling to the surface, somehow Arena.net HAS to wade through that acid and glean the nuggets of genuine criticism to be found.