Guild Wars 2

What is a “MetaBuild”?

A meta build is a build seen as the most appropriate build for the goal it is meant to perform… generally outperforming all other builds also tailored to the specific goal.

As meta’s tend to be very specific, a Dungeon Meta build is different then a WvW or a PvP Meta build.

Dungeonm builds require DPS at this moment, most dungeon builds are focussed on maximum DPS or maintaining maximum group DPS.
WVW builds require a balanced build with cleans, support and dps. so they are generally build around a set of parameters (cetrain amount of thoughness, power and amount of cleans, or other forms of sustainability for either yourself or others.

PvP has it’s own meta.

Meta’s shift when balance patches are released.

Meta is more then just builds. The optimum balance for dungeon parties used to be warrior x3, a mesmer and guardian at release. Nowadays it’s 2 elementalists, 1 warrior a guardian and 1 thief… with tasks shifted as well…

Meta is a concept and not a must. Nor are meta builds. Sometimes te difference between meta and non meta DPS tends to be very small, and a large part of the time meta builds are not all that important.

Lastly meta builds are considered to hold a roulation of attacks, an order in whcih attacks should be executed for max dps. if you do not care for this, meta is not for you…

Meta is purely theoretical. In practice some builds will be more appropriate in certain parts of dungeons. knowing when to use meta, or not, is common sense.

I do run meta gear on most characters, but I often run personal builds. Sometimes shifting 1 or 2 traits. I shift utility skills as well, as some meta skills used in the meta roulation are nice, but will kill you in the end due to lack of cleans, stability or other things whcih seem trivial at first.

In the end being aware of your own build outweighs the meta.

Adding: (edit)

Each dungeon has even a sub-meta’s for speedruns, detailing all setups and gear for specific (boss) encounter & running parts when running the meta builds on meta speedrun group… problem is you need to be in the group to communicate those.

Each world boss had advantages when using certain weapons and thus corresponding builds and trait setups.

Meta Gear is the gear optimized for a certain task. Weapons rquiring “dungeons sigils” and “dungeon specific food” are part of the gear. as sungeon gear is optimized it will only function in certain dungeons, or just in certain paths, it isn’t strange for warrior speedrunners to own 4 or 5 GS’s, several axes and maces…. so they can fit the sigils…

Dungeon levels should indicate certain things:

Important LFG tags:
Open: no requirementother then minimum dungeon level requirement
l80 or lvl 80: level requirement: all traits theoretically available
EXP or Experienced: you are experienced with the dungeon path AND the character’s proffesion
Zerk: armor type requirement, It is the request for maximum damage gear. Generally all people running meta or speedrun should have this. It does no justice to Meta as some Meta builds require other armors then berserker. But it will generally allow for Assassin pieces as well.
Meta: using mostly Meta build (remember thinking is important),
Speedrun: you know your dungeons, run meta builds, if you do not run food: kick, do not stack kick, do not buff: kick, if we wipe we disband. You know and improvise or we die.
x ele, x war, x guard, x thief : party setup, if you want to join and are on a proffession already full, request will be make to switch or kick will take place.

Useless tags, it shows people not trusting people, creating toxic or hectic groups.:
???? AP/ ?k AP : request for a minimum of achievement points. probably the wost selection criterium available, as poeple who did their daily but never ran a dungeon once will get in, and recently started fanatic and capable players with experience do not.
Ping : ping your gear in party chat. (it invades privacy of players IMHO, and I am strange to trust people) but some are paranoia about all things. It’s mostly wannabees who request this.

I guess a rough explanation is that its the most commonly agreed upon optimal build.

If the game changes, these builds may be one step behind next gen builds made by real theorycrafters. If youre starting new trying to make a build, always take a look at current meta builds to see whether yours actually surpasses the meta or not.

carlito.8954:

What is a “MetaBuild”?

Man you’re on fire today with the normalcy! I love it

A Meta build is a build decided by the community (or part of the community) to be the most optimal build for completing certain content in the most efficient manner.

These builds change based on the content you’re doing so a meta build for dungeons is not the meta build for say WvW.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

carlito.8954:

What is a “MetaBuild”?

Man you’re on fire today with the normalcy! I love it

A Meta build is a build decided by the community (or part of the community) to be the most optimal build for completing certain content in the most efficient manner.

These builds change based on the content you’re doing so a meta build for dungeons is not the meta build for say WvW.

HaHa thanks! I have some spare time at work so just trying to get as up to date as possible. Very good explanation BTW. Do you have a good site you check out for current Metabuilds?

www.metabattle.com

carlito.8954:

AdaephonDelat.3890:

carlito.8954:

What is a “MetaBuild”?

Man you’re on fire today with the normalcy! I love it

A Meta build is a build decided by the community (or part of the community) to be the most optimal build for completing certain content in the most efficient manner.

These builds change based on the content you’re doing so a meta build for dungeons is not the meta build for say WvW.

HaHa thanks! I have some spare time at work so just trying to get as up to date as possible. Very good explanation BTW. Do you have a good site you check out for current Metabuilds?

A lot of people use this site but I’m not sure how good it is – http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki

Otherwise check the specific sub forum for your profession and ask in there or check the stickies in there.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

carlito.8954:

AdaephonDelat.3890:

carlito.8954:

What is a “MetaBuild”?

Man you’re on fire today with the normalcy! I love it

A Meta build is a build decided by the community (or part of the community) to be the most optimal build for completing certain content in the most efficient manner.

These builds change based on the content you’re doing so a meta build for dungeons is not the meta build for say WvW.

HaHa thanks! I have some spare time at work so just trying to get as up to date as possible. Very good explanation BTW. Do you have a good site you check out for current Metabuilds?

A lot of people use this site but I’m not sure how good it is – http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki

Otherwise check the specific sub forum for your profession and ask in there or check the stickies in there.

Awesome, thanks again!

metaldude.4132:

www.metabattle.com

Thanks!

A meta build is for someone who cant or wont come up with their own build, or explore to potential of their class. Meta builds generally comprise of builds that the community at large have deemed to be the most simple and efficient way to accomplish various objectives while appealing to the competence of the lowest common denominator.

If you want someone to tell you how to play your game, meta builds are definately the way to go.

Look, I don’t have much time. I’m pretty sure a black SUV has followed me home from work. I come with bearing a message of great importance. Anet have been spreading chemtrails in Queensdale to brainwash the player base into thinking the meta is stable.

I can’t stress enough how wrong this is.

The meta is changing at an alarming rate and there is NOTHING that we can do about it. All we can do is brace ourselves and hope for the best. By the time this message reaches you the meta will have changed, according to my calculations, at least 4.5 times. It is growing, it is expanding and it is infiltrating our computers. It won’t be long before the meta is playing itself causing everyone to slip into a pseudo meta light spectrum 7th dimension in which no strats are viable.

I need to go. I need to get my family out of this town before they get to us. No comp is safe.

Mike OB is the meta. DON’T YOU GET IT?

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

A meta build is a build seen as the most appropriate build for the goal it is meant to perform… generally outperforming all other builds also tailored to the specific goal.

As meta’s tend to be very specific, a Dungeon Meta build is different then a WvW or a PvP Meta build.

Dungeonm builds require DPS at this moment, most dungeon builds are focussed on maximum DPS or maintaining maximum group DPS.
WVW builds require a balanced build with cleans, support and dps. so they are generally build around a set of parameters (cetrain amount of thoughness, power and amount of cleans, or other forms of sustainability for either yourself or others.

PvP has it’s own meta.

Meta’s shift when balance patches are released.

Meta is more then just builds. The optimum balance for dungeon parties used to be warrior x3, a mesmer and guardian at release. Nowadays it’s 2 elementalists, 1 warrior a guardian and 1 thief… with tasks shifted as well…

Meta is a concept and not a must. Nor are meta builds, sometimes te difference between meta and non meta DPS tends to be very small, and a large part of the time meta builds are not all that important.

Lastly meta builds are considered to hold a roulation of attacks, an order in whcih attacks should be executed for max dps. if you do not care for this, meta is not for you…

Meta is purely theoretical. In practice some builds will be more appropriate in certain parts of dungeons. knowing when to use meta, or not, is common sense.

I do run meta gear on most characters, but I often run personal builds. Sometimes shifting 1 or 2 traits. I shift utility skills as well, as some meta skills used in the meta roulation are nice, but will kill you in the end due to lack of cleans, stability or other things whcih seem trivial at first.

In the end being aware of your own build outweighs the meta.

This is probably the most accurate description you will get. If you want information on specific classes current meta builds then head over to the class specific forums. People there will be able to point you in the right direction.

If you encountered this term specifically in lfg for dungeons then it should be noted that most people don’t care about the meta class composition, as long as you are running the meta build for your class. The notable exception to this is necromancer, as they offer nothing to a dungeon run. You can and will occasionally be kicked if you attempt to bring a necro to a dungeon. Obviously not every group will kick you, but you are most likely to be kicked if you are a necro.

Likewise no matter how bad you are you are unlikely to be kicked if you bring a warrior, ele or guard. These 3 classes offer so much to a dungeon group that even a terrible one is generally worth bringing.

Meta builds are usually mathematically best at accomplishing the stated goal in an idealized setting. It is up to the player to tweak the said meta build to accommodate the usually non-ideal situations. They are an excellent starting point for customizing your character/build. Very few people actually run the meta builds, and those are largely restricted to pre-made groups (where idealized conditions are met) and the people who are too afraid or too incompetent to change the build to fit the situation at hand.

They need not be simple. Engineer’s meta rotation is a prime example of something that makes me cringe.

Greymelken.1892:

A meta build is for someone who cant or wont come up with their own build, or explore to potential of their class. Meta builds generally comprise of builds that the community at large have deemed to be the most simple and efficient way to accomplish various objectives while appealing to the competence of the lowest common denominator.

That kitten is strong with you xD meta are the builds that max the potential of classes at the moment till they figure out to please everyone.

Greymelken.1892:

A meta build is for someone who cant or wont come up with their own build, or explore to potential of their class. Meta builds generally comprise of builds that the community at large have deemed to be the most simple and efficient way to accomplish various objectives while appealing to the competence of the lowest common denominator.

If you want someone to tell you how to play your game, meta builds are definately the way to go.

Oh dear.

Yesterday, in Sparkfly Fen,
A metabuild did let me win.
It let me win in Cursed Shore,
Too bad, too bad the loot was poor.

Meta means outside or beyond. So a meta build is outside or beyond the game. Meta builds just look at the rules of the game and try to exploit them. There is no care for role playing or character story.

So Asura would be considered a meta-gamer’s race. It exploits the balance of the game. Since everyone can jump the same and everyone swings their weapons the same distance it doesn’t make sense that an Asura could swing as far as a Norn, or jump as far, or run as fast. But an Asura can jump 3 times his height, and a Norn can barely make it off the ground.

Same thing for meta builds. Turret engi is popular right now in PvP. So people exploit the turret rules to win PvP and with little skill. Meta builds are usually a max/min proposition.

I say look some up and try them. But mostly just make a build that suits your playstyle.

Vinegaroon.4369:

Meta means outside or beyond. So a meta build is outside or beyond the game. Meta builds just look at the rules of the game and try to exploit them. There is no care for role playing or character story.

So Asura would be considered a meta-gamer’s race. It exploits the balance of the game. Since everyone can jump the same and everyone swings their weapons the same distance it doesn’t make sense that an Asura could swing as far as a Norn, or jump as far, or run as fast. But an Asura can jump 3 times his height, and a Norn can barely make it off the ground.

Same thing for meta builds. Turret engi is popular right now in PvP. So people exploit the turret rules to win PvP and with little skill. Meta builds are usually a max/min proposition.

I say look some up and try them. But mostly just make a build that suits your playstyle.

Let’s stick to the definition given by the first post below the OP shall we ?

Meta is a concept. It qualifies a build and/or the team setup that goes along with it that is considered by the community to be the best at accomplishing a certain task.

Important words are bolded. Concepts detailed below :

• The meta is a consensus. That consensus can rise from the results of math hammering or simply extensive testing or both. One does not mathematically demonstrate that one specific build is meta and not an other.
• Meta builds are tailored to a specific task that involves killing stuff. Thus there is no meta in roleplaying. The need for meta arise directly from the urge of most players to powerplay and take the path of least resistence.
• Meta builds in GW2 (and the math hammering that comes along) are designed with specific setups in mind. One should learn not only the meta builds but how to adapt them to a specific situation they were not designed for initially.

Vinegaroon.4369:

Meta means outside or beyond. So a meta build is outside or beyond the game. Meta builds just look at the rules of the game and try to exploit them. There is no care for role playing or character story.

So Asura would be considered a meta-gamer’s race. It exploits the balance of the game. Since everyone can jump the same and everyone swings their weapons the same distance it doesn’t make sense that an Asura could swing as far as a Norn, or jump as far, or run as fast. But an Asura can jump 3 times his height, and a Norn can barely make it off the ground.

Same thing for meta builds. Turret engi is popular right now in PvP. So people exploit the turret rules to win PvP and with little skill. Meta builds are usually a max/min proposition.

I say look some up and try them. But mostly just make a build that suits your playstyle.

That is the definition of “meta” and “metagaming”, but overuse of therm has led people to use it for whatever’s popular at the time. “Metabuild” and “Flavor Of The Month (FOTM) Build” are basically the same thing, unless you’re reading an article about game design theory or something.

Vinegaroon.4369:

Meta means outside or beyond. So a meta build is outside or beyond the game. Meta builds just look at the rules of the game and try to exploit them. There is no care for role playing or character story.

So Asura would be considered a meta-gamer’s race. It exploits the balance of the game. Since everyone can jump the same and everyone swings their weapons the same distance it doesn’t make sense that an Asura could swing as far as a Norn, or jump as far, or run as fast. But an Asura can jump 3 times his height, and a Norn can barely make it off the ground.

Same thing for meta builds. Turret engi is popular right now in PvP. So people exploit the turret rules to win PvP and with little skill. Meta builds are usually a max/min proposition.

I say look some up and try them. But mostly just make a build that suits your playstyle.

While I don’t disagree with your definition, be careful with the use of the term exploit. When discussing video games it typically is used with a connotation of cheating, not simply utilizing everything you can to your advantage. Meta typically avoids “exploits” in the video game sense, while trying to maximize effectiveness with anything that is considered acceptable. Again, you’re not wrong, just video game connotation of exploit is bad.

IE meta builds for Lupi typically assume you’re going to actually fight lupi, not use the wallsploit. And there is no “meta map escaping” build.

of course exploits are subjective, some people view using line of sight to be cheating and an exploit in the video game sense so /shrug.

As I understand it the terms meta-gaming and meta-builds originated with PvP games and communities and referred to ‘playing’ (or more accurately planning) outside the game.

Which mainly consists of trying to anticipate what your opponent will do based on past experience, discussions with other players and a general awareness of currently popular tactics, and trying to find ways to counter it before the match even begins.

For example anyone who makes a PvP character specifically designed to counter popular defensive builds is meta-gaming. You’re not simply entering a game and reacting to what your opponents do (playing the game normally), you’re effectively starting your match up before you’ve been assigned an opponent, or even logged in – playing outside of the game. Therefore meta-gaming.

Of course this is cyclical, because if those counter builds are effective they’ll become increasingly popular, and then they become the ones people are trying to counter, which leads to a shift in the meta-game and new meta-builds appearing.

From there the term meta-build has spread to mean any widely accepted ‘best’ or most popular build, even for areas of games (or entire games) where meta-gaming doesn’t really apply (usually because you’re fighting the AI which is incapable of participating in meta-gaming, unless the designers choose to update it).

I always laugh when people say that meta gaming doesn’t include PVE.

People have broken down the formulas on how damage is done and created spreadsheets to min/max the most possible damage to try and create optimal builds. Finding that using one rune set vs another is an increase in damage for example.

What do you call such a thing?

Jerus.4350:

I always laugh when people say that meta gaming doesn’t include PVE.

People have broken down the formulas on how damage is done and created spreadsheets to min/max the most possible damage to try and create optimal builds. Finding that using one rune set vs another is an increase in damage for example.

What do you call such a thing?

Spending time and effort to feel validated ? Not that it’s a bad thing. On the contrary if that can make some people happy I’m all for it.

Jerus.4350:

I always laugh when people say that meta gaming doesn’t include PVE.

People have broken down the formulas on how damage is done and created spreadsheets to min/max the most possible damage to try and create optimal builds. Finding that using one rune set vs another is an increase in damage for example.

What do you call such a thing?

A lot of work for 1 to 2% of damage, and when interupted, spiked, or unable to act due to impractical skill suggestions , or someone makes an error…. Well you should have a tiny bit more dps … if things work out okay…

1% or 2 % dmg may seem a lot but if someone runs force and night in a dungeon instead of slaying and night it is already a trivial difference, as he lost 5% on the sigil. or forgot food, 10% or uses the cheaper food which drops, losing 1-6 %….

You cannot call a dungeon perfect if people start out without food. Food is an essential part of all dungeon metas. Sometimes I hand out food and ask for ppl to use it and I see the pigeons fly… ppl sell the food for 1 or 2 silver. Losing 10% defence, 10% dmg… just because they are cheap. If you’re not caring that much and just want -A- buff use your birthday blaster. it’s free and ppl just run through it gaining a bit more stats and DPS, and some MF…
But also common clumsiness or just not focussing too much will destory DPS easily.:

Had a nice necro in party today, he was ok, until we did spider boss AC p2 and he put down marks while we were stacking. so we casted weakness 7 times on the mark, and the spider ran in, not affected….

Waste of effort. luckily it was AC.

Jerus.4350:

Vinegaroon.4369:

Meta means outside or beyond. So a meta build is outside or beyond the game. Meta builds just look at the rules of the game and try to exploit them. There is no care for role playing or character story.

So Asura would be considered a meta-gamer’s race. It exploits the balance of the game. Since everyone can jump the same and everyone swings their weapons the same distance it doesn’t make sense that an Asura could swing as far as a Norn, or jump as far, or run as fast. But an Asura can jump 3 times his height, and a Norn can barely make it off the ground.

Same thing for meta builds. Turret engi is popular right now in PvP. So people exploit the turret rules to win PvP and with little skill. Meta builds are usually a max/min proposition.

I say look some up and try them. But mostly just make a build that suits your playstyle.

While I don’t disagree with your definition, be careful with the use of the term exploit. When discussing video games it typically is used with a connotation of cheating, not simply utilizing everything you can to your advantage. Meta typically avoids “exploits” in the video game sense, while trying to maximize effectiveness with anything that is considered acceptable. Again, you’re not wrong, just video game connotation of exploit is bad.

IE meta builds for Lupi typically assume you’re going to actually fight lupi, not use the wallsploit. And there is no “meta map escaping” build.

of course exploits are subjective, some people view using line of sight to be cheating and an exploit in the video game sense so /shrug.

As we know the rules aren’t perfect so ppl find little nuances and exploit them until something is done to the contrary. I’m saying turrets sit around too long and ppl exploit this ability to easily win PvP with little skill. Are they breaking the rules? no. Are they exploiting a poorly thought-out rule? yes.

Exploit — to make full use or derive benefit.

I think you’re talking about breaking rules, for which has the misnomer ‘exploit’.

I agree with the post under the OP as the best answer to this question though.

Vinegaroon.4369:

Jerus.4350:

Vinegaroon.4369:

Meta means outside or beyond. So a meta build is outside or beyond the game. Meta builds just look at the rules of the game and try to exploit them. There is no care for role playing or character story.

So Asura would be considered a meta-gamer’s race. It exploits the balance of the game. Since everyone can jump the same and everyone swings their weapons the same distance it doesn’t make sense that an Asura could swing as far as a Norn, or jump as far, or run as fast. But an Asura can jump 3 times his height, and a Norn can barely make it off the ground.

Same thing for meta builds. Turret engi is popular right now in PvP. So people exploit the turret rules to win PvP and with little skill. Meta builds are usually a max/min proposition.

I say look some up and try them. But mostly just make a build that suits your playstyle.

While I don’t disagree with your definition, be careful with the use of the term exploit. When discussing video games it typically is used with a connotation of cheating, not simply utilizing everything you can to your advantage. Meta typically avoids “exploits” in the video game sense, while trying to maximize effectiveness with anything that is considered acceptable. Again, you’re not wrong, just video game connotation of exploit is bad.

IE meta builds for Lupi typically assume you’re going to actually fight lupi, not use the wallsploit. And there is no “meta map escaping” build.

of course exploits are subjective, some people view using line of sight to be cheating and an exploit in the video game sense so /shrug.

As we know the rules aren’t perfect so ppl find little nuances and exploit them until something is done to the contrary. I’m saying turrets sit around too long and ppl exploit this ability to easily win PvP with little skill. Are they breaking the rules? no. Are they exploiting a poorly thought-out rule? yes.

Exploit — to make full use or derive benefit.

I think you’re talking about breaking rules, for which has the misnomer ‘exploit’.

I agree with the post under the OP as the best answer to this question though.

I completely agree, and I think calling it a misnomer is perfect, just saying the connotation with regards to video games is usually that an exploit is cheating, anything that is a by the definition exploit but not cheating is simply a “trick.” I don’t like the use of the term but it’s become ingrained into the video game community and hard to avoid. Considering this entire thread is about clearing up the meaning of video game terms I thought it was worth discussing.

VodCom.6924:

Jerus.4350:

I always laugh when people say that meta gaming doesn’t include PVE.

People have broken down the formulas on how damage is done and created spreadsheets to min/max the most possible damage to try and create optimal builds. Finding that using one rune set vs another is an increase in damage for example.

What do you call such a thing?

Spending time and effort to feel validated ? Not that it’s a bad thing. On the contrary if that can make some people happy I’m all for it.

Ehh well I guess I just fail to see the difference between discussing counters to builds in PVP outside the game and discussing alternate builds to maximize performance outside the game in PVE. Both are simply spending time outside the game trying to increase your performance in game.