Guild Wars 2

Everyone is talking “meta”, as if being as effective and efficient as possible has become the sole purpose of this game, everyone wants a build template and a skill rotation and they’re good to go.

Where is the fun in this, when has character individuality become something to shun, everywhere i go, whether it’s applying for a guild, looking for a dungeon group, or even asking about pvp builds, everyone is talking about the meta builds.

Yes, meta builds are good at what they set out to do, but they are made by human beings, and human beings aren’t perfect and neither are meta builds.

I now understand why so many people are opposing the trait changes as if it was the devil’s work, it’s because players have become rigid and unimaginative, they’ve been in their hamster wheel for far too long they can no longer escape it and therefore object to any change that interferes with their routine.

Fellas, we need to stop this, GW1 and GW2’s skill system was meant to provide limited active options using a large pool of choices to allow the players to come up with combinations to serve a particular gameplay goal set by said players, it is not about following a meta-council’s wishes as if it was the bible.

Sounds like you’re opposed to the idea of a meta in general. I can sympathise with the sentiment. As far as I’m concerned, meta is for simple people who can’t think for themselves, and a sign of imbalance in a game.
Sadly, it has become intended design over the years.

its the way game is suppose to be played what makes me sad is that there are so few skills most r so weak u r gimping urself by even using them

There will always be a meta, no matter how much devs are going to kill build diversity. What’s more it will be worse, because now it will be easier to assume if anyone has “wrong” build. When you notice 1 trait from “wrong” path you know he has full path traited after change. Pugs are gonna have hard time.

Now about OP accusing others of killing fun because meta. Who are you to tell me how should I have fun in this game? I like meta builds, I like being optimal. I like learning meta builds. If you don’t like, don’t do it, simple. But don’t expect those who want to play this way to cater for your personal tastes. Find likeminded people and play together.

Jelle.2807:

Sounds like you’re opposed to the idea of a meta in general. I can sympathise with the sentiment. As far as I’m concerned, meta is for simple people who can’t think for themselves, and a sign of imbalance in a game.
Sadly, it has become intended design over the years.

The reason the meta exists is because of how the enemies and AI in the game work. The meta won’t change until those 2 things do.

Even if meta changes there will be new meta and there will be new qq topics about new meta. This is endless circle of cause and effect.

i’m not opposed to the idea of a meta, if anything it helps keep the game running, i’m not opposed to anything in my post really, i’m just disappointed at the player behavior towards the meta.

The complete reliance on meta builds and setting these meta builds as prerequisites for anything rather than letting people experiment and make their own builds to increase diversity and exploration, that’s what saddens me.

The meta is a funny thing. There will always be a meta, because no matter how hard a developer tries to balance out skills. if they offer a large selection of options (which they need to do in an MMO) there will always be a common selection of these options that most people find stronger than other options.

The meta does not mean the game is imbalanced. It merely highlights what is commonly considered optimal for most players. That does not mean that other, non-meta, builds are not viable if put in the hands of the right players.

I personally do not use the meta, and always try to find builds that suit my playstyle best, and I do not do too badly. Any failings I have in PvP I feel are more down to my own skill than the builds I am using. This doesn’t mean I think the meta is broken or bad, it just means I’d rather tailor my own builds to my own playstyle, than use meta builds and try to change my playstyle to make them work.

What works for most people (the meta) will not always work for everyone. And most importantly, it is possible that someone can create their own non-meta build and easily defeat those using the meta. Because no matter how good meta builds are in this game, player skill can determine the outcome.

Of course, there is also the ability to create bad builds, and in these situations player skill may not be enough to help. And it is partially because of bad builds that I believe Anet is making these changes. If it shakes up/changes the meta at the same time, that is not necessarily a bad thing.

Some people do get stuck in the meta, and are not happy that their builds may change, but these changes do not mean we will be left with only bad options. If anything we are getting a few buffs here and there. And while some may be losing build flexibility, they will still be able to create effective builds, and I am 100% certain a new meta will form for them to slot back into. You are not forced to follow it, however, and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise does not fully understand how this game works.

RapidSausage.4620:

i’m not opposed to the idea of a meta, if anything it helps keep the game running, i’m not opposed to anything in my post really, i’m just disappointed at the player behavior towards the meta.

The complete reliance on meta builds and setting these meta builds as prerequisites for anything rather than letting people experiment and make their own builds to increase diversity and exploration, that’s what saddens me.

when someone opens a party it’s his right to make requirements for the party; it is you who choose to join or not to join said party; you can make your own lfg with whatever req (or lack of) you want; don’t expect other players to cater to your tastes

segman.3560:

RapidSausage.4620:

i’m not opposed to the idea of a meta, if anything it helps keep the game running, i’m not opposed to anything in my post really, i’m just disappointed at the player behavior towards the meta.

The complete reliance on meta builds and setting these meta builds as prerequisites for anything rather than letting people experiment and make their own builds to increase diversity and exploration, that’s what saddens me.

when someone opens a party it’s his right to make requirements for the party; it is you who choose to join or not to join said party; you can make your own lfg with whatever req (or lack of) you want; don’t expect other players to cater to your tastes

i’m not expecting anything from anyone, i’m simply stating my opinion on the status quo on what is expected from players, nothing more.

RapidSausage.4620:

segman.3560:

RapidSausage.4620:

i’m not opposed to the idea of a meta, if anything it helps keep the game running, i’m not opposed to anything in my post really, i’m just disappointed at the player behavior towards the meta.

The complete reliance on meta builds and setting these meta builds as prerequisites for anything rather than letting people experiment and make their own builds to increase diversity and exploration, that’s what saddens me.

when someone opens a party it’s his right to make requirements for the party; it is you who choose to join or not to join said party; you can make your own lfg with whatever req (or lack of) you want; don’t expect other players to cater to your tastes

i’m not expecting anything from anyone, i’m simply stating my opinion on the status quo on what is expected from players, nothing more.

RapidSausage.4620:

Fellas, we need to stop this, GW1 and GW2’s skill system was meant to provide limited active options using a large pool of choices to allow the players to come up with combinations to serve a particular gameplay goal set by said players, it is not about following a meta-council’s wishes as if it was the bible.

This is not stating an opinion. This is lobbying. You make emotional statement about things you find wrong and you want others to stop these actions. Problem is all you are complaining about is a matter of taste and personale choice, there’s nothing wrong about playing or not playing meta.

segman.3560:

RapidSausage.4620:

segman.3560:

RapidSausage.4620:

i’m not opposed to the idea of a meta, if anything it helps keep the game running, i’m not opposed to anything in my post really, i’m just disappointed at the player behavior towards the meta.

The complete reliance on meta builds and setting these meta builds as prerequisites for anything rather than letting people experiment and make their own builds to increase diversity and exploration, that’s what saddens me.

when someone opens a party it’s his right to make requirements for the party; it is you who choose to join or not to join said party; you can make your own lfg with whatever req (or lack of) you want; don’t expect other players to cater to your tastes

i’m not expecting anything from anyone, i’m simply stating my opinion on the status quo on what is expected from players, nothing more.

RapidSausage.4620:

Fellas, we need to stop this, GW1 and GW2’s skill system was meant to provide limited active options using a large pool of choices to allow the players to come up with combinations to serve a particular gameplay goal set by said players, it is not about following a meta-council’s wishes as if it was the bible.

This is not stating an opinion. This is lobbying. You make emotional statement about things you find wrong and you want others to stop these actions. Problem is all you are complaining about is a matter of taste and personale choice, there’s nothing wrong about playing or not playing meta.

the problem is everyone is playing meta to the point where people not playing meta are trivialized and rejected.

RapidSausage.4620:

segman.3560:

RapidSausage.4620:

segman.3560:

RapidSausage.4620:

i’m not opposed to the idea of a meta, if anything it helps keep the game running, i’m not opposed to anything in my post really, i’m just disappointed at the player behavior towards the meta.

The complete reliance on meta builds and setting these meta builds as prerequisites for anything rather than letting people experiment and make their own builds to increase diversity and exploration, that’s what saddens me.

when someone opens a party it’s his right to make requirements for the party; it is you who choose to join or not to join said party; you can make your own lfg with whatever req (or lack of) you want; don’t expect other players to cater to your tastes

i’m not expecting anything from anyone, i’m simply stating my opinion on the status quo on what is expected from players, nothing more.

RapidSausage.4620:

Fellas, we need to stop this, GW1 and GW2’s skill system was meant to provide limited active options using a large pool of choices to allow the players to come up with combinations to serve a particular gameplay goal set by said players, it is not about following a meta-council’s wishes as if it was the bible.

This is not stating an opinion. This is lobbying. You make emotional statement about things you find wrong and you want others to stop these actions. Problem is all you are complaining about is a matter of taste and personale choice, there’s nothing wrong about playing or not playing meta.

the problem is everyone is playing meta to the point where people not playing meta are trivialized and rejected.

But if everyone is playing meta then noone is left to be rejected.

segman.3560:

RapidSausage.4620:

segman.3560:

RapidSausage.4620:

segman.3560:

RapidSausage.4620:

i’m not opposed to the idea of a meta, if anything it helps keep the game running, i’m not opposed to anything in my post really, i’m just disappointed at the player behavior towards the meta.

The complete reliance on meta builds and setting these meta builds as prerequisites for anything rather than letting people experiment and make their own builds to increase diversity and exploration, that’s what saddens me.

when someone opens a party it’s his right to make requirements for the party; it is you who choose to join or not to join said party; you can make your own lfg with whatever req (or lack of) you want; don’t expect other players to cater to your tastes

i’m not expecting anything from anyone, i’m simply stating my opinion on the status quo on what is expected from players, nothing more.

RapidSausage.4620:

Fellas, we need to stop this, GW1 and GW2’s skill system was meant to provide limited active options using a large pool of choices to allow the players to come up with combinations to serve a particular gameplay goal set by said players, it is not about following a meta-council’s wishes as if it was the bible.

This is not stating an opinion. This is lobbying. You make emotional statement about things you find wrong and you want others to stop these actions. Problem is all you are complaining about is a matter of taste and personale choice, there’s nothing wrong about playing or not playing meta.

the problem is everyone is playing meta to the point where people not playing meta are trivialized and rejected.

But if everyone is playing meta then noone is left to be rejected.

almost everyone*

RapidSausage.4620:

segman.3560:

RapidSausage.4620:

segman.3560:

RapidSausage.4620:

segman.3560:

RapidSausage.4620:

i’m not opposed to the idea of a meta, if anything it helps keep the game running, i’m not opposed to anything in my post really, i’m just disappointed at the player behavior towards the meta.

The complete reliance on meta builds and setting these meta builds as prerequisites for anything rather than letting people experiment and make their own builds to increase diversity and exploration, that’s what saddens me.

when someone opens a party it’s his right to make requirements for the party; it is you who choose to join or not to join said party; you can make your own lfg with whatever req (or lack of) you want; don’t expect other players to cater to your tastes

i’m not expecting anything from anyone, i’m simply stating my opinion on the status quo on what is expected from players, nothing more.

RapidSausage.4620:

Fellas, we need to stop this, GW1 and GW2’s skill system was meant to provide limited active options using a large pool of choices to allow the players to come up with combinations to serve a particular gameplay goal set by said players, it is not about following a meta-council’s wishes as if it was the bible.

This is not stating an opinion. This is lobbying. You make emotional statement about things you find wrong and you want others to stop these actions. Problem is all you are complaining about is a matter of taste and personale choice, there’s nothing wrong about playing or not playing meta.

the problem is everyone is playing meta to the point where people not playing meta are trivialized and rejected.

But if everyone is playing meta then noone is left to be rejected.

almost everyone*

I’d like to see a detailed data you have that makes you jump to such conclusions.

segman.3560:

RapidSausage.4620:

segman.3560:

RapidSausage.4620:

segman.3560:

RapidSausage.4620:

segman.3560:

RapidSausage.4620:

i’m not opposed to the idea of a meta, if anything it helps keep the game running, i’m not opposed to anything in my post really, i’m just disappointed at the player behavior towards the meta.

The complete reliance on meta builds and setting these meta builds as prerequisites for anything rather than letting people experiment and make their own builds to increase diversity and exploration, that’s what saddens me.

when someone opens a party it’s his right to make requirements for the party; it is you who choose to join or not to join said party; you can make your own lfg with whatever req (or lack of) you want; don’t expect other players to cater to your tastes

i’m not expecting anything from anyone, i’m simply stating my opinion on the status quo on what is expected from players, nothing more.

RapidSausage.4620:

Fellas, we need to stop this, GW1 and GW2’s skill system was meant to provide limited active options using a large pool of choices to allow the players to come up with combinations to serve a particular gameplay goal set by said players, it is not about following a meta-council’s wishes as if it was the bible.

This is not stating an opinion. This is lobbying. You make emotional statement about things you find wrong and you want others to stop these actions. Problem is all you are complaining about is a matter of taste and personale choice, there’s nothing wrong about playing or not playing meta.

the problem is everyone is playing meta to the point where people not playing meta are trivialized and rejected.

But if everyone is playing meta then noone is left to be rejected.

almost everyone*

I’d like to see a detailed data you have that makes you jump to such conclusions.

almost everyone i’ve seen/interacted with*

My advice is stop joining “speedrun/zerker/noscope” groups. Those are people that don’t want to play with you and you don’t want to play with them. There is a lot of “everybody welcome / play how you want” groups everyday I check the lfg. If you join a group which requirement you don’t match it is your fault.

Noone is stopping you making your own builds and playing them as much as you want. The only times players will have an issue is where you enter their groups or teams with a build that is really unoptimal, when they have specifically asked for an optimal built team member, as it negatively affects their playstyle and their fun.

If you respect these requirements and avoid these groups you will have np playing any build at all. Just join everyone welcome groups.

RapidSausage.4620:

the problem is everyone is playing meta to the point where people not playing meta are trivialized and rejected.

The problem is everyone is following fashion to the point where people not following it are trivialized and rejected.

The problem is everyone pay to go see commercial movie to the point where good artistic movies are trivialized and rejected.

The problem is everyone is trying to be cool in high school to the point where not cool student are trivialized and rejected.

It’s life. People do what they want, if you have a problem with what the majority does, it’s your problem because nobody is forcing you to do the same. Yep being the black sheep is harder, get over it.

it has always been like that, in every computer rpg ever. Also, people can play whatever they want to. But that is not their problem. The issue is people insisting on playing bad builds and demanding that other people who dislike their suboptimal choices have to play with them – while they are not in the position to demand anything.

Not really opposed to the meta, but it’s really annoying when they have these linear cookie cutter builds and expect everyone else to do the same. I don’t play into the meta beacause I find it kinda boring to be the same gear, stats, etc as the guy next to me.

CodeHavoc.7926:

Not really opposed to the meta, but it’s really annoying when they have these linear cookie cutter builds and expect everyone else to do the same. I don’t play into the meta beacause I find it kinda boring to be the same gear, stats, etc as the guy next to me.

Find like minded people and play together. Meta players don’t want to play with you and you don;t want to play with them so what’s the problem?

Whatever is “meta” is determined by players who do specific content during many iterations, especially when it is group content that might tick other people off when failed/underperformed. See also: Dungeons, WvW, PvP.

Those patches of content haven’t seen significant updates in …ever, and the only time they really get shaken up is when balance patches happen every few months.

Your best option is to find a similar group of players, a non-meta guild, and run your chosen content with them and experiment with other builds that don’t rely on “death is the best status effect.”

Experimenting with other builds can be especially effective in PvP. I’m not even close to being mediocre in pvp, however when people expect everyone to play meta builds your opponents can get wrecked when you surprise them with some other alteration of your profession. At least in basement tier of pvp where I’m playing.

Meta in dungeons is a result of 3 years of mastering existing content. People learned how encounters work so they want to maximize their efficiency. However it’s a lie telling that dungeons are easy. As I always say, put a fresh lvl 80 newb into a dungeon and tell him to faceroll the content. Suddenly it’s not that easy. Take this into consideration when criticising dungeon veterans.

I have no opinions about WvW since for me it’s a zerg vs zerg pew pew lagfest. It’s biased opinion and I’m not going to defend it.