Guild Wars 2

I enjoyed GW2 very much recreationally, but I stopped playing a while ago awhile at lvl 25 for some reasons:

1. All my friends said the end-game is non-existant. Thats not neccessarily bad – but it didnt meet their expectations.

2. I didnt rly enjoy the pvp…was too confusing and I got overwhelmed with a lot of concepts in the game (like crafting for example)

Now I decided to give it a try again and I see a lot of people are complaining about the new patch. I’m curious, why is that, what has changed so substantionally ?

A new tier of gear (1 item) was released that adds a whopping 3 more stats to current best gear. Apparently this a low blow to the community.

MetalDays.9285:

I enjoyed GW2 very much recreationally, but I stopped playing a while ago awhile at lvl 25 for some reasons:

1. All my friends said the end-game is non-existant. Thats not neccessarily bad – but it didnt meet their expectations.

2. I didnt rly enjoy the pvp…was too confusing and I got overwhelmed with a lot of concepts in the game (like crafting for example)

Now I decided to give it a try again and I see a lot of people are complaining about the new patch. I’m curious, why is that, what has changed so substantionally ?

The endgame is nonexistant because there isn’t supposed to be any.

People are complaining about the new patch because ArenaNet implemented a number of large changes to the game that was explicitly stated they’d never do. They went back on their design philosophy.

They spent ages selling the game on the basis gear progression would be cosmetic only, that people would be able to attain the top level of gear (exotic – stat wise) in a number of ways (dungeosn, WvW, crafting, karma, AH), so were free to play how they want and the game was non-grind. (read their worthless manifesto)

A mere 3 months in to the game they did a complete u-turn and have introduced a new tier of gear above exotics and decided to make legnedary gear have better stats also, the new tier is only available by grinding thier kitteny dungeons, they will of course introduce more gear else it would be pointless to introduce just this batch.

So quite rightly many people who bought the game on the actual basis it was sold to them, not wanting another kitteny WoW/EQ clone are not happy at being lied to.

They have gone from being an MMO that was tying to things differnently to just another crappy WoW/EQ clone, apparently the general failure of these clones to keep players and pull people away from WoW hasn’t put them off, much like the concept of integrity.

The philosophy of the game and their target demographic flipped completely.

Think of it this way. You order a cheeseburger and end up getting tofu. Its still in a bun and it might look the same in some instances but it different than what you ordered.

People want to be comfortable with character completion (not having to worry about leveling up or gearing up) this new tier potentially changes this feeling as the new gear is essentially required in order to remain competitive.

grumbles.5412:

Think of it this way. You order a cheeseburger and end up getting tofu. Its still in a bun and it might look the same in some instances but it different than what you ordered.

People want to be comfortable with character completion (not having to worry about leveling up or gearing up) this new tier potentially changes this feeling as the new gear is essentially required in order to remain competitive.

Well I got good new for youuuuuuuu! New gear is not required to stay competitive:D:D:D:D:D:D:D!!!!!!!

I need to quit foruming

So you are saying I don’t need infused Ascended in order to push deeper into Fractal Dungeons? ArenaNet did indicate I would be required to get this new tier in harder difficulties. And even the most minor stat increases can tip the scales to someone elses favor in world vs world play.

Regizer.1763:

Well I got good new for youuuuuuuu! New gear is not required to stay competitive:D:D:D:D:D:D:D!!!!!!!

But new gear is required to stay maximized, and is required to stay balanced, which are the two things that people were invested in.

(Edit: And, as above, is required to be able to complete all of the content in the game, which is just as if not more important than the other two.)

No, you need it. FotM is the only content worth doing now.

Pretty much what these guys said. This game wasn’t designed to go vertical progression.
My only question is, when the hell will Arenanet offocials do about this?

Will they fix it? or continue trashing their own game?
Will they responde to us? Or will they ignore us until the game becomes another WoW/EQ clone?

These are the questions that I like answers to and im sure im not the only one here.
I bought this game specificly because of the Manefesto. Because of none-gear-treadmil.

I played mmorpgs and tierd of that style of gaming. That’s why I decided to play GW2.
Until this… KITTY CAT MEOW becomes announced! MeeeooUCH!!!

grumbles.5412:

So you are saying I don’t need infused Ascended in order to push deeper into Fractal Dungeons? ArenaNet did indicate I would be required to get this new tier in harder difficulties.

Where did they say this?

btw I idk why I said that… people keep saying “kitten” and I dont know why? lol its soo weird.

Any swear words are automatically changed to “kitten.”

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

btw I idk why I said that… people keep saying “kitten” and I dont know why? lol its soo weird.

language filter :p

Regizer.1763:

grumbles.5412:

So you are saying I don’t need infused Ascended in order to push deeper into Fractal Dungeons? ArenaNet did indicate I would be required to get this new tier in harder difficulties.

Where did they say this?

Right here.

In the upcoming Fractals of the Mists dungeon, we’ll introduce a new monster condition called Agony.
This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means. Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must. The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge.

And Infusions can only be applied to Ascended gear.

“After a certain point, our new Ascended items and Infusions become crucial tools for survival.” – Leah Rivera

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/leah-rivera-on-the-new-fractals-of-the-mist-dungeon/

Crater.1625:

Regizer.1763:

grumbles.5412:

So you are saying I don’t need infused Ascended in order to push deeper into Fractal Dungeons? ArenaNet did indicate I would be required to get this new tier in harder difficulties.

Where did they say this?

Right here.

In the upcoming Fractals of the Mists dungeon, we’ll introduce a new monster condition called Agony.
This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means. Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must. The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge.

And Infusions can only be applied to Ascended gear.

Ah ok. Though this mechanic only applies to this one dungeon so whats the problem?

I get the picture. Recreational players like me wont be affected most likely.

Regizer.1763:

Ah ok. Though this mechanic only applies to this one dungeon so whats the problem?

The problem is that it should apply to zero dungeons.

Tempest.1254:

No, you need it. FotM is the only content worth doing now.

Q: Why is it the only content worth doing?

A: Because it is the content that gives better gear!

Q: Why do you need better gear?

A: Duh, because otherwise you cannot progress in the dungeons…

Q: Why do you need to progress in dungeons?

A: It is the only content worth doing…

Q: Why again?

A: To get better gear, what are you not understanding? Better gear! Better gear! dungeons give better gear!

Q: Ah, I think I get it… but why do you need better gear?

Crater.1625:

Regizer.1763:

Ah ok. Though this mechanic only applies to this one dungeon so whats the problem?

The problem is that it should apply to zero dungeons.

Why? This is part of PvE content of a MMO, PvE players like to get gear upgrades. If you don’t like PvE why are you even running dungeons?

Regizer.1763:

A new tier of gear (1 item) was released that adds a whopping 3 more stats to current best gear. Apparently this a low blow to the community.

Tell the truth.

xtorma.1283:

Regizer.1763:

A new tier of gear (1 item) was released that adds a whopping 3 more stats to current best gear. Apparently this a low blow to the community.

Tell the truth.

That is the truth as far as I know

Q: Why is any content worth doing?

A: Because its fun and exciting, and entertaining.

Gear does not need to equate

grumbles.5412:

Q: Why is any content worth doing?

A: Because its fun and exciting, and entertaining.

Gear does not need to equate

So you are saying the new dungeon is not fun or exciting?

I love PvE. I hate gear upgrades. My main character in Guild Wars 1 has gone about seven and a half years without a gear upgrade, and is still not only viable, but is exactly as powerful as any other character in the game. That’s why I bought Guild Wars 2.

Regizer.1763:

Crater.1625:

Regizer.1763:

Ah ok. Though this mechanic only applies to this one dungeon so whats the problem?

The problem is that it should apply to zero dungeons.

Why? This is part of PvE content of a MMO, PvE players like to get gear upgrades. If you don’t like PvE why are you even running dungeons?

As a player that enjoys PvE. I do not like gear upgrades. I enjoy running dungeons because they offer interesting social experiences that provide quite intense action. This is the PvE Content of GuildWars 2 a supposedly different kind of MMO. If I wanted gear-progression based game I’d go to certain other MMOs out there, where you have 14+ tiers of gear available to you.

Regizer.1763:

xtorma.1283:

Regizer.1763:

A new tier of gear (1 item) was released that adds a whopping 3 more stats to current best gear. Apparently this a low blow to the community.

Tell the truth.

That is the truth as far as I know

You’re wrong then. It has been calculated that non-max ascended is already 14% better than exotic. thats with FINE infusions. wait til you get masterwork, rare, exotic, ASCENDED infusions.

Crater.1625:

Regizer.1763:

Ah ok. Though this mechanic only applies to this one dungeon so whats the problem?

The problem is that it should apply to zero dungeons.

The other problem, is that the people who do invest a billion hours into grinding their Ascended gear, will have 14-20% better stats than the people who decide to skip it.

If you do not play, you get left behind. Everyone else will be more effective than you, their characters more powerful. You’ll feel compelled to keep up, and thus get sucked into the never ening cycle of getting gear to get gear to get gear. Who actually wants that? I mean genuinely wants that… there are soooo many more ways to allow characters to grow a advance than to simply put gear that is +1 the older version.

Ravnodaus.5130:

Tempest.1254:

No, you need it. FotM is the only content worth doing now.

Q: Why is it the only content worth doing?

A: Because it is the content that gives better gear!

Q: Why do you need better gear?

A: Duh, because otherwise you cannot progress in the dungeons…

Q: Why do you need to progress in dungeons?

A: It is the only content worth doing…

Q: Why again?

A: To get better gear, what are you not understanding? Better gear! Better gear! dungeons give better gear!

Q: Ah, I think I get it… but why do you need better gear?

Mainly because once the full set is out it wont be such a minor update to your stats. Frankly they should have never increased base stats above exotic. Want to add infusions thats fine given those have no effect outside that dungeon and frankly in order to do higher levels you would have most likely already earned a few infusions by the time you get to the point you needed them. But the stats them selfs are what most are up in arms about. Its vertical progression which they said they were not going to do.

grumbles.5412:

Regizer.1763:

Crater.1625:

Regizer.1763:

Ah ok. Though this mechanic only applies to this one dungeon so whats the problem?

The problem is that it should apply to zero dungeons.

Why? This is part of PvE content of a MMO, PvE players like to get gear upgrades. If you don’t like PvE why are you even running dungeons?

As a player that enjoys PvE. I do not like gear upgrades. I enjoy running dungeons because they offer interesting social experiences that provide quite intense action. This is the PvE Content of GuildWars 2 a supposedly different kind of MMO. If I wanted gear-progression based game I’d go to certain other MMOs out there, where you have 14+ tiers of gear available to you.

And whats stopping from enjoying PvE as it is? You do realize that at this point in time around 0 people have new tier of gear and yet they still are doing the new dungeon and are still praising it as one of better achievements of GW2 team.

kKagari.6804:

Regizer.1763:

xtorma.1283:

Regizer.1763:

A new tier of gear (1 item) was released that adds a whopping 3 more stats to current best gear. Apparently this a low blow to the community.

Tell the truth.

That is the truth as far as I know

You’re wrong then. It has been calculated that non-max ascended is already 14% better than exotic. thats with FINE infusions. wait til you get masterwork, rare, exotic, ASCENDED infusions.

Sure new tier means its better, so what?

The new dungeon is great and I am definitely enjoying it.. I’d rather not have to constantly grind through it to remain on par with my fellow players. Not to mention when I go into World vs World. I’d like to take a break do other things and come back not feeling as though I am lagging behind and losing out on potential groups because I don’t have the gear requirement.

Regizer.1763:

xtorma.1283:

Regizer.1763:

A new tier of gear (1 item) was released that adds a whopping 3 more stats to current best gear. Apparently this a low blow to the community.

Tell the truth.

That is the truth as far as I know

Then you do not know. Reread the posts about the numbers involved. look up the gear we do know about already and compare it for yourself. The issue here isn’t +3 to a stat one time. (Although some people would still get miffed about that, on principle)

Really, look into it more. You will see the issue is far larger than you currently think it is.

Ravnodaus.5130:

Regizer.1763:

xtorma.1283:

Regizer.1763:

A new tier of gear (1 item) was released that adds a whopping 3 more stats to current best gear. Apparently this a low blow to the community.

Tell the truth.

That is the truth as far as I know

Then you do not know. Reread the posts about the numbers involved. look up the gear we do know about already and compare it for yourself. The issue here isn’t +3 to a stat one time. (Although some people would still get miffed about that, on principle)

Really, look into it more. You will see the issue is far larger than you currently think it is.

I’m sorry but this issue isn’t important enough for me to look it up. But if you want to explain it to me I’d be grateful.

grumbles.5412:

The new dungeon is great and I am definitely enjoying it.. I’d rather not have to constantly grind through it to remain on par with my fellow players. Not to mention when I go into World vs World. I’d like to take a break do other things and come back not feeling as though I am lagging behind and losing out on potential groups because I don’t have the gear requirement.

Yes, I’m with you on this one, I hate re-gearing. I just don’t think this is the same case as other MMO’s where gear grind is required.

Regizer.1763:

grumbles.5412:

Regizer.1763:

Crater.1625:

Regizer.1763:

Ah ok. Though this mechanic only applies to this one dungeon so whats the problem?

The problem is that it should apply to zero dungeons.

Why? This is part of PvE content of a MMO, PvE players like to get gear upgrades. If you don’t like PvE why are you even running dungeons?

As a player that enjoys PvE. I do not like gear upgrades. I enjoy running dungeons because they offer interesting social experiences that provide quite intense action. This is the PvE Content of GuildWars 2 a supposedly different kind of MMO. If I wanted gear-progression based game I’d go to certain other MMOs out there, where you have 14+ tiers of gear available to you.

And whats stopping from enjoying PvE as it is? You do realize that at this point in time around 0 people have new tier of gear and yet they still are doing the new dungeon and are still praising it as one of better achievements of GW2 team.

You’re confusing two issues. The new tier of armor, and the new dungeon. I know, I know, there is a very real relationship between the two things…. but one is not the same thing as the other and you shouldn’t interchange them so cavalierly.

The outrage is not directed at all at the new dungeon. Some people like, some don’t, many simply love it. That’s fine and good. The issue people are getting all crazy over is the new tier of gear, the complete reversal of philosophy in the game, the power creep, the precedent.

GW2 now has a gear treadmill. Last week it really didn’t. The change has very dire implications for the future of the game, long reaching implications.

Simply put people don’t want to be forced to constantly grind to get the best gear available to keep doing the content they enjoy. People don’t want to be forced to grind the best get to be able to remain competitive against other players in WvW. (since the stat difference can very much tip the balance)

Regizer.1763:

Ravnodaus.5130:

Regizer.1763:

xtorma.1283:

Regizer.1763:

A new tier of gear (1 item) was released that adds a whopping 3 more stats to current best gear. Apparently this a low blow to the community.

Tell the truth.

That is the truth as far as I know

Then you do not know. Reread the posts about the numbers involved. look up the gear we do know about already and compare it for yourself. The issue here isn’t +3 to a stat one time. (Although some people would still get miffed about that, on principle)

Really, look into it more. You will see the issue is far larger than you currently think it is.

I’m sorry but this issue isn’t important enough for me to look it up. But if you want to explain it to me I’d be grateful.

It isn’t important enough for you to look up… yet you are perfectly content spouting misinformation and completely wrong information on these forums instead? That is sickening.

Ravnodaus.5130:

Regizer.1763:

grumbles.5412:

Regizer.1763:

Crater.1625:

Regizer.1763:

Ah ok. Though this mechanic only applies to this one dungeon so whats the problem?

The problem is that it should apply to zero dungeons.

Why? This is part of PvE content of a MMO, PvE players like to get gear upgrades. If you don’t like PvE why are you even running dungeons?

As a player that enjoys PvE. I do not like gear upgrades. I enjoy running dungeons because they offer interesting social experiences that provide quite intense action. This is the PvE Content of GuildWars 2 a supposedly different kind of MMO. If I wanted gear-progression based game I’d go to certain other MMOs out there, where you have 14+ tiers of gear available to you.

And whats stopping from enjoying PvE as it is? You do realize that at this point in time around 0 people have new tier of gear and yet they still are doing the new dungeon and are still praising it as one of better achievements of GW2 team.

You’re confusing two issues. The new tier of armor, and the new dungeon. I know, I know, there is a very real relationship between the two things…. but one is not the same thing as the other and you shouldn’t interchange them so cavalierly.

The outrage is not directed at all at the new dungeon. Some people like, some don’t, many simply love it. That’s fine and good. The issue people are getting all crazy over is the new tier of gear, the complete reversal of philosophy in the game, the power creep, the precedent.

GW2 now has a gear treadmill. Last week it really didn’t. The change has very dire implications for the future of the game, long reaching implications.

Isn’t it the first time they added new gear sets? You can’t really call this a treadmill…

Ravnodaus.5130:

Regizer.1763:

Ravnodaus.5130:

Regizer.1763:

xtorma.1283:

Regizer.1763:

A new tier of gear (1 item) was released that adds a whopping 3 more stats to current best gear. Apparently this a low blow to the community.

Tell the truth.

That is the truth as far as I know

Then you do not know. Reread the posts about the numbers involved. look up the gear we do know about already and compare it for yourself. The issue here isn’t +3 to a stat one time. (Although some people would still get miffed about that, on principle)

Really, look into it more. You will see the issue is far larger than you currently think it is.

I’m sorry but this issue isn’t important enough for me to look it up. But if you want to explain it to me I’d be grateful.

It isn’t important enough for you to look up… yet you are perfectly content spouting misinformation and completely wrong information on these forums instead? That is sickening.

and what mis information did I spout exactly?

Ravnodaus.5130:

It isn’t important enough for you to look up… yet you are perfectly content spouting misinformation and completely wrong information on these forums instead? That is sickening.

The last time someone looked something up for him in this thread, his argument magically shifted from “I don’t believe that’s true, show me where they said it is” to “Well so what if it is?”

I mean I can’t divine his exact thoughts or anything, but I think he might not really be arguing in good faith here.

Regizer.1763:

A new tier of gear (1 item) was released that adds a whopping 3 more stats to current best gear. Apparently this a low blow to the community.

This……… is the misinformation to which I was refering….

Regizer.1763:

Ravnodaus.5130:

Regizer.1763:

grumbles.5412:

Regizer.1763:

Crater.1625:

Regizer.1763:

Ah ok. Though this mechanic only applies to this one dungeon so whats the problem?

The problem is that it should apply to zero dungeons.

Why? This is part of PvE content of a MMO, PvE players like to get gear upgrades. If you don’t like PvE why are you even running dungeons?

As a player that enjoys PvE. I do not like gear upgrades. I enjoy running dungeons because they offer interesting social experiences that provide quite intense action. This is the PvE Content of GuildWars 2 a supposedly different kind of MMO. If I wanted gear-progression based game I’d go to certain other MMOs out there, where you have 14+ tiers of gear available to you.

And whats stopping from enjoying PvE as it is? You do realize that at this point in time around 0 people have new tier of gear and yet they still are doing the new dungeon and are still praising it as one of better achievements of GW2 team.

You’re confusing two issues. The new tier of armor, and the new dungeon. I know, I know, there is a very real relationship between the two things…. but one is not the same thing as the other and you shouldn’t interchange them so cavalierly.

The outrage is not directed at all at the new dungeon. Some people like, some don’t, many simply love it. That’s fine and good. The issue people are getting all crazy over is the new tier of gear, the complete reversal of philosophy in the game, the power creep, the precedent.

GW2 now has a gear treadmill. Last week it really didn’t. The change has very dire implications for the future of the game, long reaching implications.

Isn’t it the first time they added new gear sets? You can’t really call this a treadmill…

Its the precedent and its opening the door for the future. As ArenaNet stated
“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.” – Linsey Murdock

Crater.1625:

Ravnodaus.5130:

It isn’t important enough for you to look up… yet you are perfectly content spouting misinformation and completely wrong information on these forums instead? That is sickening.

The last time someone looked something up for him in this thread, his argument magically shifted from “I don’t believe that’s true, show me where they said it is” to “Well so what if it is?”

I mean I can’t divine his exact thoughts or anything, but I think he might not really be arguing in good faith here.

That was more out of curiosity, I’m always lookin to learn more so please don’t put words in my mouth.

Ravnodaus.5130:

Regizer.1763:

A new tier of gear (1 item) was released that adds a whopping 3 more stats to current best gear. Apparently this a low blow to the community.

This……… is the misinformation to which I was refering….

I dunno, I think that sums up the forums well since the new patch.

grumbles.5412:

Regizer.1763:

Ravnodaus.5130:

Regizer.1763:

grumbles.5412:

Regizer.1763:

Crater.1625:

Regizer.1763:

Ah ok. Though this mechanic only applies to this one dungeon so whats the problem?

The problem is that it should apply to zero dungeons.

Why? This is part of PvE content of a MMO, PvE players like to get gear upgrades. If you don’t like PvE why are you even running dungeons?

As a player that enjoys PvE. I do not like gear upgrades. I enjoy running dungeons because they offer interesting social experiences that provide quite intense action. This is the PvE Content of GuildWars 2 a supposedly different kind of MMO. If I wanted gear-progression based game I’d go to certain other MMOs out there, where you have 14+ tiers of gear available to you.

And whats stopping from enjoying PvE as it is? You do realize that at this point in time around 0 people have new tier of gear and yet they still are doing the new dungeon and are still praising it as one of better achievements of GW2 team.

You’re confusing two issues. The new tier of armor, and the new dungeon. I know, I know, there is a very real relationship between the two things…. but one is not the same thing as the other and you shouldn’t interchange them so cavalierly.

The outrage is not directed at all at the new dungeon. Some people like, some don’t, many simply love it. That’s fine and good. The issue people are getting all crazy over is the new tier of gear, the complete reversal of philosophy in the game, the power creep, the precedent.

GW2 now has a gear treadmill. Last week it really didn’t. The change has very dire implications for the future of the game, long reaching implications.

Isn’t it the first time they added new gear sets? You can’t really call this a treadmill…

Its the precedent and its opening the door for the future. As ArenaNet stated
“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.” – Linsey Murdock

First level as in first set of items, like there are multiple exotic dungeon sets there will be multiple ascended gear sets

Regizer.1763:

Ravnodaus.5130:

Regizer.1763:

A new tier of gear (1 item) was released that adds a whopping 3 more stats to current best gear. Apparently this a low blow to the community.

This……… is the misinformation to which I was refering….

I dunno, I think that sums up the forums well since the new patch.

Except that information is entirely incorrect. Ascended gear is objectively superior to all other gear in the game. It’s not a difference of three points. It’s a difference of upwards of 12%.

3 points or 12% is just a different way of saying the same thing