why do people hate magic find?
IMO they should just make the Magic Find gear bonus party wide.
Out of all of these threads, I still have yet to see proof that the MF stat is failing groups. The risk factor is compensated by the player’s skill level and that’s what I witness every day I pug for dungeon runs. If someone isn’t doing a good job, it’s 99.9% of the time because of their incompetence to play the game.
—snip—
And you won’t find any proof that the MF stat is failing groups from me. My argument is that MF is a risk/reward dynamic where you gimp yourself (assume risk) in order for the chance to receive better loot. By definition, in a group activity you gimp the group to the extent that you gimp yourself.
And your experience in pugs should not lead you to believe that the risk is compensated by player skill. If you pug in the same corner of the universe as I pug, what you will notice is that there are good players average players and bad players in the game. It is illogical to assume the world will tilt and only good players will run in MF gear. The simple fact is that there will be good, average, and bad players running in MF gear. They will all have one thing in common though. They will all have gimped themselves in terms of their actual performance by preferring MF over gear with stats that contribute to performance. That’s not speculation, simply a side-by-side comparison of the gear. This is why skill is not irrelevant to group play, but is wholly irrelevant to a discussion of MF.
(edited by Raine.1394)
After the changes at dungeon ressing viable players will be those who dont die easily, so MF/berserker builds are non-welcome.
Be my guest, in fractals above 20lvl you cant survive with MF gear (nor berserk ofc) and you are the bottleneck of the whole party, dieing in a matter of seconds in every encounter having everyone trying to res u, then next one goes down, and whole party wiping cause you dont want to use some toughness/vitality.
They called us TEMPESTs, but we can use our elite to cheat death instead
YES, PRO-MF GUISE. ALL MF USERS ARE SKILLED. AND NON MF USERS ARE LESS SKILLED THAN MF USERS. GOOD ARGUMENT THERE.
My argument is that MF is a risk/reward dynamic where you gimp yourself (assume risk) in order for the chance to receive better loot. By definition, in a group activity you gimp the group to the extent that you gimp yourself.
The problem with that argument is that in order for it to be valid, you must have a group who plays the same way, with the same exact skills and has the same exact hit/miss ratio during an entire run, however, that’s anything but guild wars 2.
The current system allows users who are not up to the highest grades to still be able to contribute more than the highest graded member in the party.
For example, let’s say you have a group of 4 top-geared (geared your way) and 1 MF user. This is probably happening as I type this. Anyways, let’s throw this group into their first fight and let’s say it’s a boss just to make it simple. So a few seconds in and one of your geared members goes down because they made a mistake, so another of your geared members goes over to help. The remaining three are left dishing out damage. So point being, is during that time it takes to get that geared member back on his feet, the MF user has just dished thousands of damage that now puts them over the top in their hit ratio when compared to your downed player. That’s only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to these scenarios.
To argue that it would have been “better” to have had another top-geared player in place of the MF user is only ignorance. The ironic thing is this has probably happened to you without you even realizing it.
These “arguments” are plainly egotistical and should be ignored until you can actually spot the MF user without him/her having to ping gear.
the truth of the matter is you guys are just looking for the new gear score to use to discriminate against people with just to suit your delusion of self importance.
My argument is that MF is a risk/reward dynamic where you gimp yourself (assume risk) in order for the chance to receive better loot. By definition, in a group activity you gimp the group to the extent that you gimp yourself.
The problem with that argument is that in order for it to be valid, you must have a group who plays the same way, with the same exact skills and has the same exact hit/miss ratio during an entire run, however, that’s anything but guild wars 2.
The current system allows users who are not up to the highest grades to still be able to contribute more than the highest graded member in the party.
For example, let’s say you have a group of 4 top-geared (geared your way) and 1 MF user. This is probably happening as I type this. Anyways, let’s throw this group into their first fight and let’s say it’s a boss just to make it simple. So a few seconds in and one of your geared members goes down because they made a mistake, so another of your geared members goes over to help. The remaining three are left dishing out damage. So point being, is during that time it takes to get that geared member back on his feet, the MF user has just dished thousands of damage that now puts them over the top in their hit ratio when compared to your downed player. That’s only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to these scenarios.
To argue that it would have been “better” to have had another top-geared player in place of the MF user is only ignorance. The ironic thing is this has probably happened to you without you even realizing it.
These “arguments” are plainly egotistical and should be ignored until you can actually spot the MF user without him/her having to ping gear.
The Ideal scenario is that the MF player will be likely the one who goes down, coz he’s a kittening glasscannon.
(and you will throw me that the geared down party member is less skilled and the mf guy is skilled, GFG!)
And the guy in MF who was up and doing well there would have done MORE if he was in Berserker’s instead.
Skill means you can’t compare 2 players cleanly with numbers.
But the fact that Berserker’s is, no matter how you look at it, better than Explorer’s means that someone using Explorer’s would have done better in Berserker’s.
Because stats CAN be compared numerically, and when the same stats are involved, may be factually determined to be superior.
They wont remove mf but they could nerf it.
Maybe make it so you cant enter dungeons with mf. Or maybe have the dungeon loot be uneffected by mf and giving you a warning message if you wear anything with a mf bonus.
Edit: lol at my first sentance fixed.
(edited by Thomassassinate.9370)
I really don’t get how players can defend magic find at all in dungeons. It doesn’t help your party at all it’s a pretty selfish stat
How about instead of nerfing or removing magic find, they buff it instead?
Make the MF even higher then it is now, and the power and precision buff even higher still, maybe about on par or a little better then berserker is now?
Buff berserker gear as a result.
This makes MF gear even better, and berserker remains top tier stat wise for damage/GC.
MF keeps its intention as a trade off for MF while giving stats comparable to berserker gear which is accepted by most folks, and berserker folks get moar damage.
Technically you can spec your stats around MF gear even right now the same way you spec it for berserker, and the results are fairly similar.
This buff would close that (assumed) gap for MF users, MF users get moar MF, and they’re made on par with today’s berserker gear.
Berserkers get a buff out of the deal and more numbers trait wise to work with. Haven’t seen that suggestion yet.
I wonder why?
It would be a careful balancing act and maybe other stats would need working to remain viable… I don’t envy the balance team.
But it’s nothing that needs removal from the game, outside of the elitist number crunching crowd (a very small negative group, the larger majority of the number conscious folks being kind and honest) looking for reasons to accuse others to excuse their own inadequacies.
ya I mean all this skilled people say how good they are because they always last one to die wearing mf?
I could be naked and use rifle on my warrior and I’m probably the last one to die. It is not hard to die if you just stay max ranged and auto attack.
The thing is the way the game desgined usually the closer you are to mob, you deal more damage and provide more utility to help your team.
And the truth is I’m not sure mf is even important “for dungeon”. Mf player says they arn’t really gimping the team because the stats is minicure, but isn’t the mf boost minicure too.
I mean most of the reward come from chest and token. If mf influenced chest or the amount of token I’ll use it myself, but they don’t. There isn’t even that mob to kill in most dungeon. So mf isn’t helping much.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
I dunno. The OP asked why MF hate. So, he gets answers. Now, I find out that because I can do math and add up numbers I am an inadequate elitist, hater,no skill scrub, min maxer etc etc.
And I find out that magic find actually finds magic.. that makes the user a combat legend capable of incredible feats, while mincing about heroically in their magikal gear, casually swatting bosses like flies. The forums are so informative this way.
Unfortunately, in spite of my Awe at the Tales of The Magicfinder, I most likely will stay in my regular statted gear because of my ability to add and subtract. Numbers trump Legends. I’m just no fun.
Still, cool stories, bros.
Ley lines. The perfect solution to deadlines and writers block. Now in an easy open Can.
(edited by Teofa Tsavo.9863)
I like the concept of MF, I just think it needs to be implemented differently. Remove it from gear, make it something you get from potions/buffs/food. Also, maybe try something like….you gain 1% MF every time you level after 80 (Capping out at x%).
I dunno. The OP asked why MF hate. So, he gets answers. Now, I find out that because I can do math and add up numbers I am an inadequate elitist, hater,no skill scrub, min maxer etc etc.
That is a cool story. I’m sorry you have such a low opinion of yourself.
No ones (or at least I wouldn’t) pick on you because you can crunch the numbers. You’re right. Berserkers is superior damage wise to MF.
But that’s the point, isn’t it? That’s the trade off for MF.
If you would merit hate, it’s because you’re hating on people who choose to play a stat different from your own personal liking and brow beating them with the numbers.
Berserkers isn’t that much better then MF. The difference is minimal.
Some people rock MF for the chance at loot. I’ve played with many people in MF, and it always depends on the person behind the character.
If MF gear was some kind of widespread phenomenon, I could maybe see the hate. That isn’t the case.
Many people want to compliment their desired trait skills, or want more defense in general, or the highest possible damage and they go for these gear stats instead…
All of which is far removed from MF gear.
Skill can’t be used as an argument. Someone who sucks in MF gear isn’t going to magically get better if you throw them in another gear stat.
Any gear stat can be supplemented with trait points, though not always to the trait skills you want.
It’s one part balancing act and one part personal preference, depending on what the user wants to do.
Throwing this out there, but I see the MF hate really only apply to PUGs. What about guild runs that are to share the loot with the guild bank?
Couldn’t this be a design choice by the devs to influence teamwork in a guild run so the end result is the guild has the chance to get better loot to be shared with the guild bank? If that is the case, then it makes perfect sense. For example, 4 people run in full dps while 1 runs in full MF. They all contribute in the run but for the chance for better loot to drop to earn specific drops and coin for the guild. I see this as a very interesting guild tactic and design choice.
The Magic Find argument is completely moot at any rate, no matter the statistics, examples, and the inclusion of other factors such as builds and the players actual abilities. Why do I say this? For one reason and one reason only… no player in this game is in any way responsible to the other players for what gear they wear. You do not have to reveal how your gear is set up, what the stats are, or what your build is. Each player is responsible only to themselves. You don’t like my MF gear? Tough, I paid for it, worked for it, and I’m gonna wear it anyway. Enough said.
Corwin Grimjaw: Guardian (80)
Yak’s Bend Server
Crimethink [ct]
Yak’s Bend Server
Crimethink [ct]
Berserkers isn’t that much better then MF. The difference is minimal.
On a mere 35% crit chance (the lowest you can get with full Berserker’s) the crit damage alone is worth a 14% damage bonus, and that rises as your crit chance rises.
The Toughness of Knight’s on medium armor with no trait toughness decreases taken damage by about 25%. More armor/toughness decreases this, but less increases.
Both of those are pretty substantial differences.
Someone who sucks in MF gear isn’t going to magically get better if you throw them in another gear stat.
Yeah, actually, they will. They’ll still be a sucky player, but they’ll be outputting more damage in Berserker’s, or receiving less in Knight’s, regardless of their skill level.
Just because they suck doesn’t magically mean their gear stats go away.
ya anyway, I dont’ think I care that much since untill someone can statiscally proven mf even mater I don’t care.
I use omnoberry or peach bar mainly for the gold find. Which is an obvious few silver per dungeon run. There isn’t even much trash killing in most dungeon and most of the time people just skip it anyway.
People like to put blame on certain groups of people regardless if they are actually the ones who let the team down. Berserker and magic find gear is all the same if you lack in survivability which clearly BOTH types of gear do not provide. Compare it with a knights gear or something which provides you with survivability and other nice trait bonuses with certain class.
lol, the anti-MF crowd came by, I see. They seem to think that numbers (at optimum conditions, at that) mean everything, and if you’re not helping total, complete strangers, you’re hurting them, and feel the need to tell you how to play so they can benefit from you, but somehow that’s not selfish; YOU playing YOUR character how YOU want to is.
Whatever guild I’m repping today [tag]
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
lol, the anti-MF crowd came by, I see.
Yes, because it’s so unreasonable for people that have a problem with MF to answer someone’s question as to why people hate it.
So very, VERY unreasonable.
lol, the anti-MF crowd came by, I see.
Yes, because it’s so unreasonable for people that have a problem with MF to answer someone’s question as to why people hate it.
So very, VERY unreasonable.
It’s one thing to answer it. It’s another to browbeat everyone who disagrees with you, which is what you’re doing.
Whatever guild I’m repping today [tag]
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
lol, the anti-MF crowd came by, I see.
Yes, because it’s so unreasonable for people that have a problem with MF to answer someone’s question as to why people hate it.
So very, VERY unreasonable.It’s one thing to answer it. It’s another to browbeat everyone who disagrees with you, which is what you’re doing.
It’s one thing to browbeat those who disagree, it’s an entirely worse thing to categorically dismiss math because it doesn’t fit your worldview.
lol, the anti-MF crowd came by, I see.
Yes, because it’s so unreasonable for people that have a problem with MF to answer someone’s question as to why people hate it.
So very, VERY unreasonable.It’s one thing to answer it. It’s another to browbeat everyone who disagrees with you, which is what you’re doing.
It’s one thing to browbeat those who disagree, it’s an entirely worse thing to categorically dismiss math because it doesn’t fit your worldview.
I didn’t dismiss it, I accept it for what it is. It doesn’t, however, take real world use into account, which is the part you’re ignoring.
Whatever guild I’m repping today [tag]
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
I don’t hate magic find but I can’t help but feel it doesn’t always work as it should. I’m not a big fan of chance at all because it’s so dependant on how lucky you are (same reason why I dislike Mystic Forge). To give anecdotal evidence (which I’m aware is not hard evidence), I got more lodestones when farming in normal gear than in my MF gear this week. I’ve also run dungeons with people who wore MF gear and I didn’t, yet we got the same types of loot. The stat definitely a fix, be it for better or worse. Right now it’s wonky.
Ginni Gruesome, Necromancer of the College of Synergetics
lol, the anti-MF crowd came by, I see.
Yes, because it’s so unreasonable for people that have a problem with MF to answer someone’s question as to why people hate it.
So very, VERY unreasonable.It’s one thing to answer it. It’s another to browbeat everyone who disagrees with you, which is what you’re doing.
It’s one thing to browbeat those who disagree, it’s an entirely worse thing to categorically dismiss math because it doesn’t fit your worldview.
I didn’t dismiss it, I accept it for what it is. It doesn’t, however, take real world use into account, which is the part you’re ignoring.
You mean the real world use that guarantees that you deal MORE damage due to the power increase, and guarantees that every crit does MORE damage due to the crit damage increase, regardless of circumstance?
And the complete lack of any circumstance where you will be dealing LESS damage to counteract the INCREASED damage?
And the fact that there is absolutely no other factor involved in comparing the 2, unlike with Knight’s where dealing with survivability is a much more complicated issue (where Explorer’s is still inarguably worse)?
Because that sounds a lot like dismissing math because it doesn’t agree with you.
lol, the anti-MF crowd came by, I see.
Yes, because it’s so unreasonable for people that have a problem with MF to answer someone’s question as to why people hate it.
So very, VERY unreasonable.It’s one thing to answer it. It’s another to browbeat everyone who disagrees with you, which is what you’re doing.
It’s one thing to browbeat those who disagree, it’s an entirely worse thing to categorically dismiss math because it doesn’t fit your worldview.
It doesn’t matter what the math says, because the math doesn’t necessarily apply to the person using magic find. It’s only valid if it applies to a specific person’s play style. The person using MF is looking to get better drops, end of story. And again, the statistics don’t matter anyway because the only person any player is responsible to for their gear and stats is themselves.
Corwin Grimjaw: Guardian (80)
Yak’s Bend Server
Crimethink [ct]
Yak’s Bend Server
Crimethink [ct]
lol, the anti-MF crowd came by, I see.
Yes, because it’s so unreasonable for people that have a problem with MF to answer someone’s question as to why people hate it.
So very, VERY unreasonable.It’s one thing to answer it. It’s another to browbeat everyone who disagrees with you, which is what you’re doing.
It’s one thing to browbeat those who disagree, it’s an entirely worse thing to categorically dismiss math because it doesn’t fit your worldview.
It doesn’t matter what the math says, because the math doesn’t necessarily apply to the person using magic find. It’s only valid if it applies to a specific person’s play style. The person using MF is looking to get better drops, end of story. And again, the statistics don’t matter anyway because the only person any player is responsible to for their gear and stats is themselves.
This is how I look at it, but no matter how I try to explain it, I get trolled around because I’m pro-MF.
It’s like, the new racism, but towards gear and players who use it.
Whatever guild I’m repping today [tag]
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
lol, the anti-MF crowd came by, I see.
Yes, because it’s so unreasonable for people that have a problem with MF to answer someone’s question as to why people hate it.
So very, VERY unreasonable.It’s one thing to answer it. It’s another to browbeat everyone who disagrees with you, which is what you’re doing.
It’s one thing to browbeat those who disagree, it’s an entirely worse thing to categorically dismiss math because it doesn’t fit your worldview.
I didn’t dismiss it, I accept it for what it is. It doesn’t, however, take real world use into account, which is the part you’re ignoring.
You mean the real world use that guarantees that you deal MORE damage due to the power increase, and guarantees that every crit does MORE damage due to the crit damage increase, regardless of circumstance?
And the complete lack of any circumstance where you will be dealing LESS damage to counteract the INCREASED damage?
And the fact that there is absolutely no other factor involved in comparing the 2, unlike with Knight’s where dealing with survivability is a much more complicated issue (where Explorer’s is still inarguably worse)?
Because that sounds a lot like dismissing math because it doesn’t agree with you.
I’ll be sure to get back to you when the crit CHANCE, stress CHANCE doesn’t work and I do more damage in my MF set because I was critting like a villain.
-[edit]-
Above all, I’m still failing to see why not doing DPS is a bad thing, as long as I’m not doing zero/negative DPS, and I’m not dying every (other) pull.
Whatever guild I’m repping today [tag]
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
lol, the anti-MF crowd came by, I see.
Yes, because it’s so unreasonable for people that have a problem with MF to answer someone’s question as to why people hate it.
So very, VERY unreasonable.It’s one thing to answer it. It’s another to browbeat everyone who disagrees with you, which is what you’re doing.
It’s one thing to browbeat those who disagree, it’s an entirely worse thing to categorically dismiss math because it doesn’t fit your worldview.
It doesn’t matter what the math says, because the math doesn’t necessarily apply to the person using magic find. It’s only valid if it applies to a specific person’s play style. The person using MF is looking to get better drops, end of story. And again, the statistics don’t matter anyway because the only person any player is responsible to for their gear and stats is themselves.
This is how I look at it, but no matter how I try to explain it, I get trolled around because I’m pro-MF.
It’s like, the new racism, but towards gear and players who use it.
Yes, because hating someone for what they were born as is DEFINITELY comparable to hating someone for the actions they take that make them antisocial kittens.
lol, the anti-MF crowd came by, I see.
Yes, because it’s so unreasonable for people that have a problem with MF to answer someone’s question as to why people hate it.
So very, VERY unreasonable.It’s one thing to answer it. It’s another to browbeat everyone who disagrees with you, which is what you’re doing.
It’s one thing to browbeat those who disagree, it’s an entirely worse thing to categorically dismiss math because it doesn’t fit your worldview.
It doesn’t matter what the math says, because the math doesn’t necessarily apply to the person using magic find. It’s only valid if it applies to a specific person’s play style. The person using MF is looking to get better drops, end of story. And again, the statistics don’t matter anyway because the only person any player is responsible to for their gear and stats is themselves.
This is how I look at it, but no matter how I try to explain it, I get trolled around because I’m pro-MF.
It’s like, the new racism, but towards gear and players who use it.
Yes, because hating someone for what they were born as is DEFINITELY comparable to hating someone for the actions they take that make them antisocial kittens.
Racism is a form of prejudice, which this is.
I meant to type prejudice in the previous post, by the way. My bad.
Whatever guild I’m repping today [tag]
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
lol, the anti-MF crowd came by, I see.
Yes, because it’s so unreasonable for people that have a problem with MF to answer someone’s question as to why people hate it.
So very, VERY unreasonable.It’s one thing to answer it. It’s another to browbeat everyone who disagrees with you, which is what you’re doing.
It’s one thing to browbeat those who disagree, it’s an entirely worse thing to categorically dismiss math because it doesn’t fit your worldview.
I didn’t dismiss it, I accept it for what it is. It doesn’t, however, take real world use into account, which is the part you’re ignoring.
You mean the real world use that guarantees that you deal MORE damage due to the power increase, and guarantees that every crit does MORE damage due to the crit damage increase, regardless of circumstance?
And the complete lack of any circumstance where you will be dealing LESS damage to counteract the INCREASED damage?
And the fact that there is absolutely no other factor involved in comparing the 2, unlike with Knight’s where dealing with survivability is a much more complicated issue (where Explorer’s is still inarguably worse)?
Because that sounds a lot like dismissing math because it doesn’t agree with you.I’ll be sure to get back to you when the crit CHANCE, stress CHANCE doesn’t work and I do more damage in my MF set because I was critting like a villain.
So your argument is that you deal more damage with Explorer’s because you crit more when the crit chance is the same.
kitten, using that argument, I could claim that P/V/T is more damaging than Berserker’s!
Also, I thought it was all about THE LEET SKILLS you have. Somehow a random crit hotstreak is completely unaffected by that.
lol, the anti-MF crowd came by, I see.
Yes, because it’s so unreasonable for people that have a problem with MF to answer someone’s question as to why people hate it.
So very, VERY unreasonable.It’s one thing to answer it. It’s another to browbeat everyone who disagrees with you, which is what you’re doing.
It’s one thing to browbeat those who disagree, it’s an entirely worse thing to categorically dismiss math because it doesn’t fit your worldview.
I didn’t dismiss it, I accept it for what it is. It doesn’t, however, take real world use into account, which is the part you’re ignoring.
You mean the real world use that guarantees that you deal MORE damage due to the power increase, and guarantees that every crit does MORE damage due to the crit damage increase, regardless of circumstance?
And the complete lack of any circumstance where you will be dealing LESS damage to counteract the INCREASED damage?
And the fact that there is absolutely no other factor involved in comparing the 2, unlike with Knight’s where dealing with survivability is a much more complicated issue (where Explorer’s is still inarguably worse)?
Because that sounds a lot like dismissing math because it doesn’t agree with you.I’ll be sure to get back to you when the crit CHANCE, stress CHANCE doesn’t work and I do more damage in my MF set because I was critting like a villain.
So your argument is that you deal more damage with Explorer’s because you crit more when the crit chance is the same.
kitten, using that argument, I could claim that P/V/T is more damaging than Berserker’s!
Also, I thought it was all about THE LEET SKILLS you have. Somehow a random crit hotstreak is completely unaffected by that.
Oh, do you not know what “chance” means? I’m sorry, there’s our confusion.
It’s entirely feasible I can can consistently do more damage in an MF set than I would an a berserker’s set.
Whatever guild I’m repping today [tag]
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
It’s entirely feasible I can can consistently do more damage in an MF set than I would an a berserker’s set.
Not really possible unless you are sleeping while using your berserker gear. MF set does 69% the damage of Berserker
lol, the anti-MF crowd came by, I see.
Yes, because it’s so unreasonable for people that have a problem with MF to answer someone’s question as to why people hate it.
So very, VERY unreasonable.It’s one thing to answer it. It’s another to browbeat everyone who disagrees with you, which is what you’re doing.
It’s one thing to browbeat those who disagree, it’s an entirely worse thing to categorically dismiss math because it doesn’t fit your worldview.
I didn’t dismiss it, I accept it for what it is. It doesn’t, however, take real world use into account, which is the part you’re ignoring.
You mean the real world use that guarantees that you deal MORE damage due to the power increase, and guarantees that every crit does MORE damage due to the crit damage increase, regardless of circumstance?
And the complete lack of any circumstance where you will be dealing LESS damage to counteract the INCREASED damage?
And the fact that there is absolutely no other factor involved in comparing the 2, unlike with Knight’s where dealing with survivability is a much more complicated issue (where Explorer’s is still inarguably worse)?
Because that sounds a lot like dismissing math because it doesn’t agree with you.I’ll be sure to get back to you when the crit CHANCE, stress CHANCE doesn’t work and I do more damage in my MF set because I was critting like a villain.
So your argument is that you deal more damage with Explorer’s because you crit more when the crit chance is the same.
kitten, using that argument, I could claim that P/V/T is more damaging than Berserker’s!
Also, I thought it was all about THE LEET SKILLS you have. Somehow a random crit hotstreak is completely unaffected by that.Oh, do you not know what “chance” means? I’m sorry, there’s our confusion.
It’s entirely feasible I can can consistently do more damage in an MF set than I would an a berserker’s set.
Yes, and anyone who knows anything about probability would know that it’s effectively impossible over that large a sample size.
Since the results are non-replicable, due to randomness, the only real way to compare is to compare what would have happened in an identical circumstance. And in an identical circumstance (all the crits the same), Berserker’s does more. Period.
I will not invite people with MF gear into my team.
ArenaNet need to remove it.
On a mere 35% crit chance (the lowest you can get with full Berserker’s) the crit damage alone is worth a 14% damage bonus, and that rises as your crit chance rises.
Versus 25% for Explorers. Everything you said about Berserker gear here applies to the MF Explorer set, minus 10%. The difference is 10%.
The trade off in that is the MF.
Yeah, actually, they will. They’ll still be a sucky player, but they’ll be outputting more damage in Berserker’s, or receiving less in Knight’s, regardless of their skill level.
Just because they suck doesn’t magically mean their gear stats go away.
No, actually they won’t.
10% when compared to Berserkers isn’t going to make a difference when the player sucks to begin with. But go on, keep hiding behind that 10% like it means anything.
Folks like you should really quit trying to introduce your gear elitism into the game.
Once, I had this “scepter-auto attack-guardian” joined our guild run for FotM 30+. And I noticed, he’s always stand behind the team and autoattack everything at his range, including boss, to keep his stack of sigil luck. Obviously he doesn’t want to die. Sadly, he can’t even survive the giant jelly. I mean, our thief is more “tanky” than him. We have to res the guardian all the time, and in the end, he take us down to the checkpoint, multiple times.
I usually don’t mind MF users in the party, but at least, know your class if you’re insist to wear MF gears, you have various skills and utilities to help others. I know MF will get you all the shinies, and rich is good, but… this kind of players make MF users looks so bad.
On a mere 35% crit chance (the lowest you can get with full Berserker’s) the crit damage alone is worth a 14% damage bonus, and that rises as your crit chance rises.
Versus 25% for Explorers. Everything you said about Berserker gear here applies to the MF Explorer set, minus 10%. The difference is 10%.
The trade off in that is the MF.
Yeah, actually, they will. They’ll still be a sucky player, but they’ll be outputting more damage in Berserker’s, or receiving less in Knight’s, regardless of their skill level.
Just because they suck doesn’t magically mean their gear stats go away.No, actually they won’t.
10% when compared to Berserkers isn’t going to make a difference when the player sucks to begin with. But go on, keep hiding behind that 10% like it means anything.
Folks like you should really quit trying to introduce your gear elitism into the game.
So suddenly, all abilities dealing more damage doesn’t mean you deal more damage.
Maybe it doesn’t matter much because they suck, but it’s still more.
And when you’re dealing more damage, the enemies die quicker, which means runs are faster, and the enemies present less danger because they’re dead.
Thus, dealing less damage in Explorer’s makes runs longer and more difficult for everyone, so that the one person can get more money.
On a mere 35% crit chance (the lowest you can get with full Berserker’s) the crit damage alone is worth a 14% damage bonus, and that rises as your crit chance rises.
Versus 25% for Explorers. Everything you said about Berserker gear here applies to the MF Explorer set, minus 10%. The difference is 10%.
The trade off in that is the MF.
Yeah, actually, they will. They’ll still be a sucky player, but they’ll be outputting more damage in Berserker’s, or receiving less in Knight’s, regardless of their skill level.
Just because they suck doesn’t magically mean their gear stats go away.No, actually they won’t.
10% when compared to Berserkers isn’t going to make a difference when the player sucks to begin with. But go on, keep hiding behind that 10% like it means anything.
Folks like you should really quit trying to introduce your gear elitism into the game.
So suddenly, all abilities dealing more damage doesn’t mean you deal more damage.
Maybe it doesn’t matter much because they suck, but it’s still more.
And when you’re dealing more damage, the enemies die quicker, which means runs are faster, and the enemies present less danger because they’re dead.
Thus, dealing less damage in Explorer’s makes runs longer and more difficult for everyone, so that the one person can get more money.
10% is not “faster”, it’s tripping across the finish line.
Whatever guild I’m repping today [tag]
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
10% when compared to Berserkers isn’t going to make a difference when the player sucks to begin with. But go on, keep hiding behind that 10% like it means anything.
Folks like you should really quit trying to introduce your gear elitism into the game.
10% is not “faster”, it’s tripping across the finish line.
Fact is, Explorer’s does 69% of Berserker damage, that’s a FACT, it’s not 10% difference, it’s quite huge difference between the two.
On a mere 35% crit chance (the lowest you can get with full Berserker’s) the crit damage alone is worth a 14% damage bonus, and that rises as your crit chance rises.
Versus 25% for Explorers. Everything you said about Berserker gear here applies to the MF Explorer set, minus 10%. The difference is 10%.
The trade off in that is the MF.
Yeah, actually, they will. They’ll still be a sucky player, but they’ll be outputting more damage in Berserker’s, or receiving less in Knight’s, regardless of their skill level.
Just because they suck doesn’t magically mean their gear stats go away.No, actually they won’t.
10% when compared to Berserkers isn’t going to make a difference when the player sucks to begin with. But go on, keep hiding behind that 10% like it means anything.
Folks like you should really quit trying to introduce your gear elitism into the game.
So suddenly, all abilities dealing more damage doesn’t mean you deal more damage.
Maybe it doesn’t matter much because they suck, but it’s still more.
And when you’re dealing more damage, the enemies die quicker, which means runs are faster, and the enemies present less danger because they’re dead.
Thus, dealing less damage in Explorer’s makes runs longer and more difficult for everyone, so that the one person can get more money.10% is not “faster”, it’s tripping across the finish line.
Tell me that after you get a ticket for going 10% over the speed limit (or effective speed limit in one of the areas where the real limit is 5 over)
I still say the whole argument is pointless.
Corwin Grimjaw: Guardian (80)
Yak’s Bend Server
Crimethink [ct]
Yak’s Bend Server
Crimethink [ct]
So suddenly, all abilities dealing more damage doesn’t mean you deal more damage.
Maybe it doesn’t matter much because they suck, but it’s still more.
And when you’re dealing more damage, the enemies die quicker, which means runs are faster, and the enemies present less danger because they’re dead.
Thus, dealing less damage in Explorer’s makes runs longer and more difficult for everyone, so that the one person can get more money.
Because your PUG team (assuming as such, I imagine a fellow like you surrounds himself with like minded folks) is always going be a flawlessly oiled machine of death and destruction and will perfectly fulfill their roles in perfect gear without fail, amirite?
I’m saying you’re getting all bent out of shape over 10%, when it’s the player that makes or breaks the team.
If they’re good at their role and doing what they’re supposed to be doing for their party well, what they’re wearing is irrelevant and shouldn’t bother you.
Fact is, Explorer’s does 69% of Berserker damage, that’s a FACT, it’s not 10% difference, it’s quite huge difference between the two.
Fact is, you need to do your own math. You’re wrong. It’s a 10% difference VS Berserker gear stats (base).
Fact is, you need to do your own math. You’re wrong. It’s a 10% difference VS Berserker gear stats (base).
No, actually, the precision, and therefore crit chance, is the same.
The difference lies in the crit damage. Here, have some math:
Average damage multiplier = (chance to not crit) + [(chance to crit) * (crit multiplier)]
The base crit multiplier is 150%, or 1.5.
Average damage multiplier at 35% crit, no added crit damage = (.65) + [(.35) * (1.5)] = 1.175.
Average damage multiplier at 35% crit, 48% crit damage (full Berserker’s, with jewelry) = (.65) + [(.35) * (1.98)] = 1.343
1.343 / 1.175 = 1.14298, meaning the Crit Damage stat of Berserker’s increases your damage by 14.3%.
Larger crit chances generate a larger bonus from Berserker’s:
Avg dmg mult at 50% crit, 0 Crit Dam = (.5) + [(.5) * (1.5)] = 1.25
Avg dmg mult at 50% crit, 48 Crit Dam = (.5) + [(.5) * (1.98)] = 1.49
1.49 / 1.25 = 1.192, or 19.2% damage increase.
No, actually, the precision, and therefore crit chance, is the same.
The difference lies in the crit damage. Here, have some math:
Average damage multiplier = (chance to not crit) + [(chance to crit) * (crit multiplier)]
The base crit multiplier is 150%, or 1.5.
Average damage multiplier at 35% crit, no added crit damage = (.65) + [(.35) * (1.5)] = 1.175.
Average damage multiplier at 35% crit, 48% crit damage (full Berserker’s, with jewelry) = (.65) + [(.35) * (1.98)] = 1.3431.343 / 1.175 = 1.14298, meaning the Crit Damage stat of Berserker’s increases your damage by 14.3%.
Larger crit chances generate a larger bonus from Berserker’s:
Avg dmg mult at 50% crit, 0 Crit Dam = (.5) + [(.5) * (1.5)] = 1.25
Avg dmg mult at 50% crit, 48 Crit Dam = (.5) + [(.5) * (1.98)] = 1.491.49 / 1.25 = 1.192, or 19.2% damage increase.
Okay and with jewelery, Explorer can narrow that gap back down to around… 10%. Not to mention food.
Pointless! It’s all pointless! There is no point to the pointlessness of this point at this point! Don’t try to make a point, there’s no point! Which by itself is a good point!
Corwin Grimjaw: Guardian (80)
Yak’s Bend Server
Crimethink [ct]
Yak’s Bend Server
Crimethink [ct]
No, actually, the precision, and therefore crit chance, is the same.
The difference lies in the crit damage. Here, have some math:
Average damage multiplier = (chance to not crit) + [(chance to crit) * (crit multiplier)]
The base crit multiplier is 150%, or 1.5.
Average damage multiplier at 35% crit, no added crit damage = (.65) + [(.35) * (1.5)] = 1.175.
Average damage multiplier at 35% crit, 48% crit damage (full Berserker’s, with jewelry) = (.65) + [(.35) * (1.98)] = 1.3431.343 / 1.175 = 1.14298, meaning the Crit Damage stat of Berserker’s increases your damage by 14.3%.
Larger crit chances generate a larger bonus from Berserker’s:
Avg dmg mult at 50% crit, 0 Crit Dam = (.5) + [(.5) * (1.5)] = 1.25
Avg dmg mult at 50% crit, 48 Crit Dam = (.5) + [(.5) * (1.98)] = 1.491.49 / 1.25 = 1.192, or 19.2% damage increase.
Okay and with jewelery, Explorer can narrow that gap back down to around… 10%. Not to mention food.
That still doesn’t stop 10% from being a significant difference.