Serenity now~Insanity later
why do people hate magic find?
WAT. You say toughness is useless and you don’t want to be forced wearing an offensive gear?!?!?!
And imply that MF users are the most skillful players in game coz you’re one?
Joke man. Whatta big Joke.
Ya. Not what I said. You’re building strawmen.
I said toughness was useless on easy content. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve referenced AC and low level fractals in this discussion.
I’ve also not once tried to make a sweeping generality about MF player skill. I am highly skilled. I know not at all how much skill anyone else in this thread has. I want to be rewarded for my high level of skill, so I wear MF gear on content where the alternative gear wouldn’t really matter.
Now you did get the part about me not wanting to be forced to wear specific gear pretty close. Ask yourself, what if I insisted that if you played a guardian you had to wear toughness/vitality/power armor and go with an alturuistic healing shout build because that’s what would be best for me if I ever ended up grouped with you?
(side note: I love being grouped with one alt healing shout guardian…gimmee boons)
Doesn’t it seem a lot more selfish to tell someone else what build and what gear they had to use?
After all, all I’m asking for is superior skill to receive superior rewards which is kinda how the real world is supposed to work (please note all the qualifiers I stuck in the second half of that sentence…and make sure you understand what I mean by qualifiers). To me, that’s not selfish. It’s how things should be.
there is an illusion of uselessness of toughness in AC. yes it is a level 30 something fractal so you don’t notice the numbers actually kicking in. but try to remove one piece of armor which is akin to decreasing toughness and take damage. you see dmg numbers go up right?. in fractals where the numbers are much bigger, it is noticeable. ive noticed bad mf gear players die most of the time in one or 2 hits. it can’t be denied coz mf gear is a glass cannon gear. low toughness/low vita, less buffer for damage that WILL hit you.
Most players can do AC with their eyes closed at this point, and sure when you get into fractals of 25+ I can understand that you need to be focused and not in MF gear because when it comes to F40s you do need every stat you have along with all your skill. The “problem” is because of elitists, and this thread has many, the average pug thinks that MF is leech gear and pugs tend to follow the loudest, ignorant person they find. This poison from elitists has convinced pugs that MF is completely useless and anyone wearing it needs to be gunned down…. When you see in AC people asking for 80s only or no-mf it hurts a little, why, because these players are spouting this and have probably never run the dungeon before, and if they have they continue to get destroyed in their berserker arah gear and then follow suit with “who is using mf?” The problem is not MF, the problem is selfish elitists who think that other people are not allowed a better chance at loot because they want to farm the dungeons as fast as possible and repeatedly…. why? To get more tokens/coin income. So, is that not selfish? Sure, every player is getting the coins/tokens but the players are being forced to run the dungeon in ways they are not happy with just to suit you…..
Play the game, stop being selfish and leave MF alone, it is in the game, people can use whatever they want.
“Some of my best friends are heterosexual”
Play the game, stop being selfish and leave MF alone, it is in the game, people can use whatever they want.
Pot meet kettle.
Serenity now~Insanity later
.23%? You’re giving up your primary stat, that’s 1003 attribute points, leaving you only your two 698s. (689×2)/(698×2 + 1003)=58.19% That’s quite a lot worse. Of course if you’re only looking offensively, then (698×2)/(1003 + 698)=82.07% plus critical damage. Huge difference between 41.8% 18% and .23%
And wearing mf armor doesn’t increase your skill stat, you’re just as skilled as the rest of us.
You are missing my points here. What Im saying is that using best stats available is completly unnecessary since the game content is incredibly easy. You dont have gearchecks in dungeons/raids (oops we dont have raids) where you NEED extra powerful stats to beat content. This game has no real challenge, so a group with 5 decent players using MF can beat ANY content. I know WoW-boys will whine about doing it 3 minutes faster per run (dunno how you survive without a damage meter addon), but since there is no real challenge in GW2 there is no reason to worry about this. If you worry, well, then dont do PUGs, gather 4 other friends who take the game too seriously and go for AC World record.
All I see here is the good old american problem: “wait, he is getting better stuff than I am and it is not fair that anyone else gets more stuff than I do”.
WAT. You say toughness is useless and you don’t want to be forced wearing an offensive gear?!?!?!
And imply that MF users are the most skillful players in game coz you’re one?
Joke man. Whatta big Joke.
Ya. Not what I said. You’re building strawmen.
I said toughness was useless on easy content. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve referenced AC and low level fractals in this discussion.
I’ve also not once tried to make a sweeping generality about MF player skill. I am highly skilled. I know not at all how much skill anyone else in this thread has. I want to be rewarded for my high level of skill, so I wear MF gear on content where the alternative gear wouldn’t really matter.
Now you did get the part about me not wanting to be forced to wear specific gear pretty close. Ask yourself, what if I insisted that if you played a guardian you had to wear toughness/vitality/power armor and go with an alturuistic healing shout build because that’s what would be best for me if I ever ended up grouped with you?
(side note: I love being grouped with one alt healing shout guardian…gimmee boons)
Doesn’t it seem a lot more selfish to tell someone else what build and what gear they had to use?
After all, all I’m asking for is superior skill to receive superior rewards which is kinda how the real world is supposed to work (please note all the qualifiers I stuck in the second half of that sentence…and make sure you understand what I mean by qualifiers). To me, that’s not selfish. It’s how things should be.
there is an illusion of uselessness of toughness in AC. yes it is a level 30 something fractal so you don’t notice the numbers actually kicking in. but try to remove one piece of armor which is akin to decreasing toughness and take damage. you see dmg numbers go up right?. in fractals where the numbers are much bigger, it is noticeable. ive noticed bad mf gear players die most of the time in one or 2 hits. it can’t be denied coz mf gear is a glass cannon gear. low toughness/low vita, less buffer for damage that WILL hit you.
Most players can do AC with their eyes closed at this point, and sure when you get into fractals of 25+ I can understand that you need to be focused and not in MF gear because when it comes to F40s you do need every stat you have along with all your skill. The “problem” is because of elitists, and this thread has many, the average pug thinks that MF is leech gear and pugs tend to follow the loudest, ignorant person they find. This poison from elitists has convinced pugs that MF is completely useless and anyone wearing it needs to be gunned down…. When you see in AC people asking for 80s only or no-mf it hurts a little, why, because these players are spouting this and have probably never run the dungeon before, and if they have they continue to get destroyed in their berserker arah gear and then follow suit with “who is using mf?” The problem is not MF, the problem is selfish elitists who think that other people are not allowed a better chance at loot because they want to farm the dungeons as fast as possible and repeatedly…. why? To get more tokens/coin income. So, is that not selfish? Sure, every player is getting the coins/tokens but the players are being forced to run the dungeon in ways they are not happy with just to suit you…..
Play the game, stop being selfish and leave MF alone, it is in the game, people can use whatever they want.
people want to do AC with level 80 chars because they provide the gimped but full potential of the char. level 80 most likely unlocked the grandmaster trait, or most likely has the appropriate skill, and if they’re wearing exotics, has the cap of the stat. it is understandable. they want it to be perfect/ideal coz this will lead to a result, less time spent and you could use the extra time to do something else.
about mf, the “elitists” that you call are just telling facts and are spreading awareness in the community that MF is flawed conceptually and socially. it is an evil and undesirable stat in my opinion. it is morally incorrect coz it promotes the ideas of “punishing your team mates for you to get the good stuffs” and “consciously underperforming but getting rewarded the most.” these ideas in itself are detestable and the only organisms in existence that operate on that ideas are the parasites and corrupt government officials.
(edited by alcopaul.2156)
about mf, the “elitists” that you call are just telling facts and are spreading awareness in the community that MF is flawed conceptually and socially. it is an evil and undesirable stat in my opinion. it is morally incorrect coz it promotes the ideas of “punishing your team mates for you to get the good stuffs” and “consciously underperforming but getting rewarded the most.” these ideas in itself are detestable and the only organisms in existence that operate on that ideas are the parasites and corrupt government officials.
Lol… Now, MF is the root of all evil. Some people in this thread need some serious perspective.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=first+world+problems
People acting like MF suddenly makes you rich lololol..
It’s bad because it sucks at it’s job.
The great forum duppy.
about mf, the “elitists” that you call are just telling facts and are spreading awareness in the community that MF is flawed conceptually and socially. it is an evil and undesirable stat in my opinion. it is morally incorrect coz it promotes the ideas of “punishing your team mates for you to get the good stuffs” and “consciously underperforming but getting rewarded the most.” these ideas in itself are detestable and the only organisms in existence that operate on that ideas are the parasites and corrupt government officials.
Lol… Now, MF is the root of all evil. Some people in this thread need some serious perspective.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=first+world+problems
i didn’t say it is the root. i said it is an evil stat, which i mean it is worse than bad. because of the deplorable ideas that are attached to it.
do you want your kids to play a game that tells you that it’s ok to take advantage of peoples effort to advance your own selfish gains? you gotta teach them kids some values, dude.
People acting like MF suddenly makes you rich lololol..
It’s bad because it sucks at it’s job.
getting rich with mf is not the point. the point is stepping on people’s faces to get up on the ladder.
there’s nothing wrong with getting rich. there is certainly a connection of MF getting you that dough. go mf the open world. go form mf parties. go form your guild parties.
but if you knowingly mf a non-mf group, that’s a different story.
i didn’t say it is the root. i said it is an evil stat, which i mean it is worse than bad. because of the deplorable ideas that are attached to it.
do you want your kids to play a game that tells you that it’s ok to take advantage of peoples effort to advance your own selfish gains? you gotta teach them kids some values, dude.
This is, fundamentally, a conversation about a couple extra minutes in a dungeon versus a couple extra rare drops, in a game we play with our free time and with our disposable income. All the extra self-righteousness and mathematical hand-waving in the world doesn’t change that.
I don’t let my kids play MMOs— because of people like the ones in this thread.
i didn’t say it is the root. i said it is an evil stat, which i mean it is worse than bad. because of the deplorable ideas that are attached to it.
do you want your kids to play a game that tells you that it’s ok to take advantage of peoples effort to advance your own selfish gains? you gotta teach them kids some values, dude.
This is, fundamentally, a conversation about a couple extra minutes in a dungeon versus a couple extra rare drops, in a game we play with our free time and with our disposable income.
which is in black and white is like this
1.) you sacrifice important stats like critical damage and toughness in favor of magic find, a stat that increases your drops
2.) critical damage increases your dps which means less time to kill a target. toughness helps your survivability which make you deal the dps that is needed. magic find increases your drops and doesn’t do anything to alter your dps.
3.) if you have higher/constant source of DPS, it will entail that you finish the map faster, thus saving time.
4.) MF users are aware that these numbers that help the DPS of a team are absent and chose to have the rare drops instead.
5.) in a party of 5 with 4 non mf users, the mf user chose to have rare drops instead instead of equipping something that helps the total dps of the team.
6.) 4 non mf users performing their full potential and getting average drops while the mf user underperforming because of the lack of stats and getting the rare drops
Which when translated to common speak, the mf user “punishes his team mates for him to get the good stuffs” and “consciously underperforms but getting rewarded the most.”
it’s called “implications.”
(edited by alcopaul.2156)
As I see it:
-using mf makes you ~66% as effective as non-mf
-using non-exotic items makes you 60-90% as effective as exotic
-being a poor player makes you 20-50% as effective as professional
-combining a few: being a mediocre player and using masterwork items is 40% as effective as exotic pro
I get the impression everyone that is anti-mf assigns all of these handicaps to mf builds.
The first one is true on paper but kitten pugging dungeons or low level fractals (no point going full MF in a higher fractal) and what’s true on paper generally doesn’t hold up in reality. A lot of people can’t play for peanuts and can’t listen either (ie don’t hold the hammer past 30 ticks -downed-, watch out for wind -falls of 9 times-, constantly move -stands still catches on fire, dead-)
Let us buy vendor mats (eg spools of thread) in 250 stacks, end the excessive clicking.
After using it for weeks on two characters im convinced its nothing but a scam, never ever got anything drop that i didn’t get with no magic find equipped..
Its a placebo and anyone who thinks they get better loot are delusional..
LOL at thread.
For AC you are exclusively getting:
1. only level 80 ?
2. non-MF armor? (how about Masterwork or lesser armor)
Now what about potions +10% damage or food? +60 Condition Damage. But wait he is on MF and/or not level 80. The argument is useless the minute you get people with elite gear and exclusive level 80s. Selfish? Seriously…
i didn’t say it is the root. i said it is an evil stat, which i mean it is worse than bad. because of the deplorable ideas that are attached to it.
do you want your kids to play a game that tells you that it’s ok to take advantage of peoples effort to advance your own selfish gains? you gotta teach them kids some values, dude.
This is, fundamentally, a conversation about a couple extra minutes in a dungeon versus a couple extra rare drops, in a game we play with our free time and with our disposable income.
which is in black and white is like this
1.) you sacrifice important stats like critical damage and toughness in favor of magic find, a stat that increases your drops
2.) critical damage increases your dps which means less time to kill a target. toughness helps your survivability which make you deal the dps that is needed. magic find increases your drops and doesn’t do anything to alter your dps.
3.) if you have higher/constant source of DPS, it will entail that you finish the map faster, thus saving time.
4.) MF users are aware that these numbers that help the DPS of a team are absent and chose to have the rare drops instead.
5.) in a party of 5 with 4 non mf users, the mf user chose to have rare drops instead instead of equipping something that helps the total dps of the team.
6.) 4 non mf users performing their full potential and getting average drops while the mf user underperforming because of the lack of stats and getting the rare dropsWhich when translated to common speak, the mf user “punishes his team mates for him to get the good stuffs” and “consciously underperforms but getting rewarded the most.”
it’s called “implications.”
Maybe “unnecessary complications.” :p
1. You are not getting people on food or lesser food? (+60 or +small number condition damage)
2. Are you exclusively getting only level 80? (so what happened to harmonious game play when the lore and circumstance allows 1/2 the level you are in)
3. What about potions? So you are going to choose those who can afford the +10?
Elitist? :p
This thread is in itself a proof that MF gear is a bad thing: It is splitting people
And even worse, it goes against A-nets design goal: that a game should be played to have fun, not be played “to prepare to have fun”.
For a lot of people, MF gear creates an eternal farming circle of preparing for something. Because why would you wear the “hard earned” gear (for your build) that was the very goal of your farming when you can farm much more wearing MF?
Result: Farming, i.e. “preparing to have fun”, becomes a goal in itself.
Bad design.
.23%? You’re giving up your primary stat, that’s 1003 attribute points, leaving you only your two 698s. (689×2)/(698×2 + 1003)=58.19% That’s quite a lot worse. Of course if you’re only looking offensively, then (698×2)/(1003 + 698)=82.07% plus critical damage. Huge difference between 41.8% 18% and .23%
And wearing mf armor doesn’t increase your skill stat, you’re just as skilled as the rest of us.
You are missing my points here. What Im saying is that using best stats available is completly unnecessary since the game content is incredibly easy. You dont have gearchecks in dungeons/raids (oops we dont have raids) where you NEED extra powerful stats to beat content. This game has no real challenge, so a group with 5 decent players using MF can beat ANY content. I know WoW-boys will whine about doing it 3 minutes faster per run (dunno how you survive without a damage meter addon), but since there is no real challenge in GW2 there is no reason to worry about this. If you worry, well, then dont do PUGs, gather 4 other friends who take the game too seriously and go for AC World record.
All I see here is the good old american problem: “wait, he is getting better stuff than I am and it is not fair that anyone else gets more stuff than I do”.
The thing is, you’re not really get much more out of that extra 100+% magic find. It only affects rare drops from monsters, which is very low, so its still not much at double rate. It’s only worth using when the extra rares are valuable, like lodestones, but just for extra ectos? You’ll make more money/hour just from the extra time you save using normal gear since most of the money is from the chests and end rewards.
If it was actually a “no one should get more stuff than me” thing, then no one would be arguing about this and we’d all go out and buy mf gear. Perhaps you’re projecting your real feelings and that’s why you defend mf gear?
Also, I’ve never played WoW. Funny how you just jump to insulting people by accusing them of playing another successful MMO when you run out of things to say and then you don’t even get it right.
And why are we now suddenly assuming it’s grinding AC? First it’s mf users are all magically more skilled, now it’s people running AC and nothing else.
(edited by Navzar.2938)
@Xavori…idk why you are comparing yourself to other players dicussing MF….you should only be comparing yourself w/ mf to yourself w/o mf. It’s pretty obivous that you are giving up some stat for the gain in mf….so you are not playing at 100% potential.
Regardless of your individual skill…there is always a useful stat that mf replaces. If you are an expert at staying alive…then you are giving up increased crit dmg. If you aren’t then you’re giving up survivability. Do you (yourself..no one else) play worse (less skilled) when not using mf? I should hope not.
If what you say is correct then you have no problems staying alive answer me this please:
Would increased crit dmg change your dmg output over not having increased crit dmg?
Then consider what the goal is at it’s core level…killing things right? Does increased dmg help you achieve that goal? Ofc it does…does increased mf and decreased dmg help you achieve that goal? No, ofc not. It only applies to the loot after the goal has be completed.
I’ve said quite a few times the difference in a little bit extra damage doesn’t matter. It doesn’t save that much time or make an AC run all the much easier.
I really don’t run my MF warrior in high level fractals or Arah explorable because not only is she geared MF, but her build isn’t exactly that great for it. I also don’t run her in WvW for pretty much the same reason (the lack of a stun breaker vs other players is suicide). She’s very, very good for what I use her for, and I have a pile o’ alts for when I want to do other stuff.
So no, there is no point in my getting back that bit of critical damage and extra power. If was going to change her gear, it wouldn’t be into zerker anyway. I’d almost certainly be into knight’s specifically because if I was changing her, it would be to run harder content, and zerker wouldn’t be my choice for that.
@mf doesn’t work.
My MF warrior averages 3.3 gold per AC set. My non-MF toons average 2.6. Now I have gotten exotics on my non-MF toons and had runs without any rares on my MF toons. But over the long term, the MF is definitely worth it. If the stealth drop nerf was really a bug and not a nerf and gets fixed, those numbers should both go back up, and the spread between them increases.
Hey I just met you – And this is crazy –
But here’s my body – So rez me maybe?
But here’s my body – So rez me maybe?
Multiple reasons, someone already posted the straight math in a earlier post, but what they didnt post was the fact that most users who run MF gear don’t even bother using exotics for that. Because MF on Greens/yellows are the exact same amount that are on exotics the users tend to lean towards the cheaper greens.
So now you have a user with lower stats due to gear+ lower stats due to MF gear type in ur party…theyre basically useless and mooching, and the community does not approve. =/
The main use of MF gear are for users who want to go out into the field and farm mobs, which is why MF only effects monster drops. So please don’t bring it into dungeons.
Mistymountains so if a person runs his avatar in MF gear with
1. Exotic lineup
2. Highest +damage potion
3. High +whatever food
That would be ok with you?
The thing here is in dungeons I’ve seen people with “non-evil gear” but would only press 1 (auto-attack to boot)/ or baby cried/ or husband called/ or on the phone etc…
That is why that straight math doesn’t work because of additional in-game variables that they didn’t consider and extra-game circumstances which more-often that not defines the contribution of an individual player.
@Hellkaiser. I didn’t “throw out the word juvenile”. I was using the term ‘juvenile feline’ to replace kitten which replaces naughty words on these forums. I do that I lot cuz it’s phunny.
And yes, skill is a valid argument. You would know this if you’d played AC enough to realize that there are mob attacks in those dungeons that stats simply aren’t enough to deal with, but player skill can regardless of toughness. So no, you don’t get to reject that argument out of hand unless you can first demonstrate that skill doesn’t matter since I’m pretty sure I’ve explained exactly how and where it matters more than anything else.
It’s not up for debate, it was just how I saw it. You tossed around a word like juvenile as an insult all the while ignoring rational debate. The irony wasn’t lost.
Now the next part is hilarious, you assume that I didn’t grind the heck out of AC…
You’re more than likely talking about the gravelings and how they must be CC’d, unless I’m mistaken. And if you’re saying CC is the “skill” that defines your MF usage, well I’m sorry but you’re out of your bloody mind xD
Anyways, we could go at this til the cows come home. Or I can just assume you don’t get what is being said and/or don’t want to. Which after reading your posts is seemingly more the likely explanation, and ultimately this is getting no one anywhere aside from spreading a mild irritation with the attitudes of MF users.
Irony…. xD
This thread is in itself a proof that MF gear is a bad thing: It is splitting people
And even worse, it goes against A-nets design goal: that a game should be played to have fun, not be played “to prepare to have fun”.
For a lot of people, MF gear creates an eternal farming circle of preparing for something. Because why would you wear the “hard earned” gear (for your build) that was the very goal of your farming when you can farm much more wearing MF?
Result: Farming, i.e. “preparing to have fun”, becomes a goal in itself.
Bad design.
What is good gameplay?
1. Ban people lower than level 80 in dungeons that by design allows lower levels? Because they slow the group?
2. Ban people with MF gear (not considering higher level armor such as rare or exotics) but allow normal gear? Or since normal gear is bad enough accept only those with yellows and oranges?
3. Pretend that food and potions does not exist? What if the avatar is wearing MF gear with those uber upgrades/buffs?
4. Have good “non-evil” gear but slacking in gameplay? I’ve seen people do lazy runs not using all skills and that is a greater factor than MF. Especially for tough bosses I see only auto-attack when that happens I remind the group in chat.
Solution: Create a guild that caters to the absolute rule of you own self-righteous standard of gear usage and avoid that kind of preaching/debate in map chat or local chat.
(edited by Corvi.3278)
I’d like to point out again that Skill is not a factor when discussing MF.
If a player who is running a Dungeon changes his gear to MF, he WILL perform worse. There is no debate there.
He is increasing his drop rate by decreasing his performance.
~Sorrow’s Furnace~
Guardian
Guardian
He is increasing his drop rate by decreasing his performance.
Correction : He’s increasing his drop rate by decreasing his party performance.
I hate it because the gear seems to be bugged ATM and offer no magic find. Stick with the food.
Is GW2 a game or a virtual casino?
Reading more and more in this thread I can see one person being in love with AC. Is it the only dungeon he can beat?
Let Valkyries guide me to my destiny.
This thread is in itself a proof that MF gear is a bad thing: It is splitting people
And even worse, it goes against A-nets design goal: that a game should be played to have fun, not be played “to prepare to have fun”.
For a lot of people, MF gear creates an eternal farming circle of preparing for something. Because why would you wear the “hard earned” gear (for your build) that was the very goal of your farming when you can farm much more wearing MF?
Result: Farming, i.e. “preparing to have fun”, becomes a goal in itself.
Bad design.What is good gameplay?
1. Ban people lower than level 80 in dungeons that by design allows lower levels? Because they slow the group?
2. Ban people with MF gear (not considering higher level armor such as rare or exotics) but allow normal gear? Or since normal gear is bad enough accept only those with yellows and oranges?
3. Pretend that food and potions does not exist? What if the avatar is wearing MF gear with those uber upgrades/buffs?
4. Have good “non-evil” gear but slacking in gameplay? I’ve seen people do lazy runs not using all skills and that is a greater factor than MF. Especially for tough bosses I see only auto-attack when that happens I remind the group in chat.Solution: Create a guild that caters to the absolute rule of you own self-righteous standard of gear usage and avoid that kind of preaching/debate in map chat or local chat.
Nearly all exaggerated straw man arguments, no one is calling for anyone or anything to be “banned” if it doesn’t exist then drop rates increase across the board, that’s the only way we walk away from the MF debate happy.
Irony…. xD
.23%? You’re giving up your primary stat, that’s 1003 attribute points, leaving you only your two 698s. (689×2)/(698×2 + 1003)=58.19% That’s quite a lot worse. Of course if you’re only looking offensively, then (698×2)/(1003 + 698)=82.07% plus critical damage. Huge difference between 41.8% 18% and .23%
And wearing mf armor doesn’t increase your skill stat, you’re just as skilled as the rest of us.
You are missing my points here. What Im saying is that using best stats available is completly unnecessary since the game content is incredibly easy. You dont have gearchecks in dungeons/raids (oops we dont have raids) where you NEED extra powerful stats to beat content. This game has no real challenge, so a group with 5 decent players using MF can beat ANY content. I know WoW-boys will whine about doing it 3 minutes faster per run (dunno how you survive without a damage meter addon), but since there is no real challenge in GW2 there is no reason to worry about this. If you worry, well, then dont do PUGs, gather 4 other friends who take the game too seriously and go for AC World record.
All I see here is the good old american problem: “wait, he is getting better stuff than I am and it is not fair that anyone else gets more stuff than I do”.
The thing is, you’re not really get much more out of that extra 100+% magic find. It only affects rare drops from monsters, which is very low, so its still not much at double rate. It’s only worth using when the extra rares are valuable, like lodestones, but just for extra ectos? You’ll make more money/hour just from the extra time you save using normal gear since most of the money is from the chests and end rewards.
If it was actually a “no one should get more stuff than me” thing, then no one would be arguing about this and we’d all go out and buy mf gear. Perhaps you’re projecting your real feelings and that’s why you defend mf gear?Also, I’ve never played WoW. Funny how you just jump to insulting people by accusing them of playing another successful MMO when you run out of things to say and then you don’t even get it right.
And why are we now suddenly assuming it’s grinding AC? First it’s mf users are all magically more skilled, now it’s people running AC and nothing else.
I dont really care if people will get or not more fat stuff by using MF gear. There are people who like using it and, placebo or not, I dont see a problem. Game is not about making money/hour, it is about having fun (which I know is not that easy considering all the grind and the lack of content, but this is for another thread). People blame other people’s mf gear for their personal lack of ability to play the game.
And if you never played WoW, this is the reason you dont understand what Im saying and stated Im “insulting people by accusing them of playing another successful MMO”. Im not insulting anyone. This IS the way things work in WoW. To make end game content you MUST use equipment A, build B and rotation C or people dont want you in their group because, well, because the “drops/hour will be worse”. So if you have no idea on what you are talking about, you should just run your fractals instead of whining in forums.
And about the AC thing, dude, you are really short sighted, arent you? This was an ironic example. Dont take things too serious. Neither the text nor the game. And go buy your mf gear instead of whining. A monkey with a mouse can beat any content in this game if you give him enough bananas, which makes all this mf discussion stupid.
.23%? You’re giving up your primary stat, that’s 1003 attribute points, leaving you only your two 698s. (689×2)/(698×2 + 1003)=58.19% That’s quite a lot worse. Of course if you’re only looking offensively, then (698×2)/(1003 + 698)=82.07% plus critical damage. Huge difference between 41.8% 18% and .23%
And wearing mf armor doesn’t increase your skill stat, you’re just as skilled as the rest of us.
You are missing my points here. What Im saying is that using best stats available is completly unnecessary since the game content is incredibly easy. You dont have gearchecks in dungeons/raids (oops we dont have raids) where you NEED extra powerful stats to beat content. This game has no real challenge, so a group with 5 decent players using MF can beat ANY content. I know WoW-boys will whine about doing it 3 minutes faster per run (dunno how you survive without a damage meter addon), but since there is no real challenge in GW2 there is no reason to worry about this. If you worry, well, then dont do PUGs, gather 4 other friends who take the game too seriously and go for AC World record.
All I see here is the good old american problem: “wait, he is getting better stuff than I am and it is not fair that anyone else gets more stuff than I do”.
The thing is, you’re not really get much more out of that extra 100+% magic find. It only affects rare drops from monsters, which is very low, so its still not much at double rate. It’s only worth using when the extra rares are valuable, like lodestones, but just for extra ectos? You’ll make more money/hour just from the extra time you save using normal gear since most of the money is from the chests and end rewards.
If it was actually a “no one should get more stuff than me” thing, then no one would be arguing about this and we’d all go out and buy mf gear. Perhaps you’re projecting your real feelings and that’s why you defend mf gear?Also, I’ve never played WoW. Funny how you just jump to insulting people by accusing them of playing another successful MMO when you run out of things to say and then you don’t even get it right.
And why are we now suddenly assuming it’s grinding AC? First it’s mf users are all magically more skilled, now it’s people running AC and nothing else.I dont really care if people will get or not more fat stuff by using MF gear. There are people who like using it and, placebo or not, I dont see a problem. Game is not about making money/hour, it is about having fun (which I know is not that easy considering all the grind and the lack of content, but this is for another thread). People blame other people’s mf gear for their personal lack of ability to play the game.
And if you never played WoW, this is the reason you dont understand what Im saying and stated Im “insulting people by accusing them of playing another successful MMO”. Im not insulting anyone. This IS the way things work in WoW. To make end game content you MUST use equipment A, build B and rotation C or people dont want you in their group because, well, because the “drops/hour will be worse”. So if you have no idea on what you are talking about, you should just run your fractals instead of whining in forums.
And about the AC thing, dude, you are really short sighted, arent you? This was an ironic example. Dont take things too serious. Neither the text nor the game. And go buy your mf gear instead of whining. A monkey with a mouse can beat any content in this game if you give him enough bananas, which makes all this mf discussion stupid.
OK!
So…..why are you so vehemently defending MF gear so?
Irony…. xD
Reading more and more in this thread I can see one person being in love with AC. Is it the only dungeon he can beat?
1. Ascalonian armor is the best bunker armor in the game currently. Power/toughness/vitality.
2. It very low risk, moderate reward.
3. It’s quick. I only have to spend an hour of my time to make 3+ gold. That buys a lot of WvW upgrades and gear repairs.
4. I ONLY WEAR MF GEAR ON EASY STUFF WHERE LOSING A BIT OF DPS JUST DOESN’T MATTER, AND AC IS DEFINTELY EASY STUFF. Since this thread is about MF gear, and I’m defending MF gear, I’m only going to defend it those cicrumstances I feel it’s acceptable. You’ll never catch me running Arah exploraton or level 40+ fractals in MF gear. Hence, I’m not talking about Arah or level 40+ fractals.
Hey I just met you – And this is crazy –
But here’s my body – So rez me maybe?
But here’s my body – So rez me maybe?
“.
For a lot of people, MF gear creates an eternal farming circle of preparing for something. Because why would you wear the “hard earned” gear (for your build) that was the very goal of your farming when you can farm much more wearing MF?Result: Farming, i.e. “preparing to have fun”, becomes a goal in itself.
Bad design.
Very few if any people use MF to farm their own gear. If they did, why would they build a whole magic-find set to do it? They could have used that effort just getting a regular set.
Some people like getting extra phat lewt and treasure hunting etc. For them getting extra loot with MF is the fun.
my opinion? if you are using the stuff that just replaces condition damage with magic find, it isn’t that big a deal depending on your weapon sets. you can still make a really nice dmg. build with a magic find set. if you are running a rare or green magic find set, then get in a different party.
Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall
Why I hate Magic Find? Because It doesn’t seem to work for me. I’ve done dozens of hours of farming in the high level maps with both, MF gear and Non MF gear. I’ve yet to see any kind of significant difference in loot drops. That is why i hate Magic Find.
Wish it, Want it, Do it!
Anet gave me the freedom to choose what gear I want to wear. I’m just exercising my right. I play high level fractals. I’m not against anyone using mf. If I can so should they. I do however have a problem with players being downed multiple times during a match be it people in mf gear or running glass canon builds because they refuse to take note of certain mechanics during a fight like going melee when they should remain at max range.
Reading more and more in this thread I can see one person being in love with AC. Is it the only dungeon he can beat?
1. Ascalonian armor is the best bunker armor in the game currently. Power/toughness/vitality.
2. It very low risk, moderate reward.
3. It’s quick. I only have to spend an hour of my time to make 3+ gold. That buys a lot of WvW upgrades and gear repairs.
4. I ONLY WEAR MF GEAR ON EASY STUFF WHERE LOSING A BIT OF DPS JUST DOESN’T MATTER, AND AC IS DEFINTELY EASY STUFF. Since this thread is about MF gear, and I’m defending MF gear, I’m only going to defend it those cicrumstances I feel it’s acceptable. You’ll never catch me running Arah exploraton or level 40+ fractals in MF gear. Hence, I’m not talking about Arah or level 40+ fractals.
But your view isnt honest. Sure its easy and quick even if you wear MF, but how quick is it when your whole party wears MF. You are still underpreforming in a non-MF group when you wear MF gear. Thats just fact, you will never have the preformance of a real set. Thats where it becomes selfish, for a tiny gain of roughly 50-70s per run (your own numbers) you skip the good of the group for the good of yourself.
You would also be better off just running a fractal 10+ for a much higher income, without the need for MF gear. Something that takes 45m-1h to complete.
Also, point #1 doesnt matter, because you dont need MF gear to obtain it, so its a moot point. MF doesnt improve your speed or chance of getting it.
There are instances/fractals where a full MF group would lie dead in their tracks, not being able to push through due to lack of dps. Same goes for any group with a lack of dps. I’m also curious how the new patch and no WP bumrushing will effect the MF users. Just another reason not to grab them. Lower damage, lower survivability, so you have to spend more time fighting, which results in a bigger risk of wiping and having to start over on the boss.
Let Valkyries guide me to my destiny.
There are instances/fractals where a full MF group would lie dead in their tracks, not being able to push through due to lack of dps. Same goes for any group with a lack of dps. I’m also curious how the new patch and no WP bumrushing will effect the MF users. Just another reason not to grab them. Lower damage, lower survivability, so you have to spend more time fighting, which results in a bigger risk of wiping and having to start over on the boss.
Thats what multiple armor sets are for. Just switch sets on the fly. You don’t really believe that mf gear is the only set of gear people have do you? Survivability has nothing to do with gear when in ranged combat. It’s all about dodging.
(edited by OmniPotentes.4817)
Reason I hate MF is people dont know when to use it, and when not. Just did lvl 30 daily and we wiped on valcano end boss (mainly because guard didnt know what a shield was) but after several attempts I look at the team and 3 of the 4 pugs still have MF nurishment. At that point i gave up!.
Magic Find + Common Sense + Consideration = Happy Party + Nice Loot
There are instances/fractals where a full MF group would lie dead in their tracks, not being able to push through due to lack of dps. Same goes for any group with a lack of dps. I’m also curious how the new patch and no WP bumrushing will effect the MF users. Just another reason not to grab them. Lower damage, lower survivability, so you have to spend more time fighting, which results in a bigger risk of wiping and having to start over on the boss.
Thats what multiple armor sets are for. Just switch sets on the fly. You don’t really believe that mf gear is the only set of gear people have do you? Survivability has nothing to do with gear when in ranged combat. It’s all about dodging.
But thats not what the discussion is about. We are talking about MF gear and its gains and drawbacks. And yes, survivability has alot to do with gear even in ranged combat. Things that deal high damage to my engineer/mesmer if it hits does very little when it hits my necro for instance. He has alot more armor and HP, so he can just stand there and take it. This is also at a place where dodging is very risky i.e the asura fractal with harpies.
Let Valkyries guide me to my destiny.
There are instances/fractals where a full MF group would lie dead in their tracks, not being able to push through due to lack of dps. Same goes for any group with a lack of dps. I’m also curious how the new patch and no WP bumrushing will effect the MF users. Just another reason not to grab them. Lower damage, lower survivability, so you have to spend more time fighting, which results in a bigger risk of wiping and having to start over on the boss.
Thats what multiple armor sets are for. Just switch sets on the fly. You don’t really believe that mf gear is the only set of gear people have do you? Survivability has nothing to do with gear when in ranged combat. It’s all about dodging.
But thats not what the discussion is about. We are talking about MF gear and its gains and drawbacks. And yes, survivability has alot to do with gear even in ranged combat. Things that deal high damage to my engineer/mesmer if it hits does very little when it hits my necro for instance. He has alot more armor and HP, so he can just stand there and take it. This is also at a place where dodging is very risky i.e the asura fractal with harpies.
Using magic find gear is a selfish thing. Blame the developers for making it possible not the players for using it.
Reflective/ Stability skills and jumping from platform to platform are perfect alternatives to dodging in the harpie fractal.
the issue with MF is that if the games based around team work and making friends then why is there a stat thats basically there to promote selfish attitudes?
Its not that the stat is evil. Its the fact that the people wearing it have such little respect for their fellow players that they to be are dregs of the community. if ya want to build yourself around selfish motives then go do it on your own. Nurfing yourself (and your group) just for selfish gains proves your not worthy of taking up a slot in a group imo.
Its about attitudes not player skill to me.
Go back to WoW. Most overused brainless arguement 2012-2013
The crazy thing, MF gear works for me when i am either harvesting (seems to yield more extras), or a nameless face in the zerg on a character who can tag mass numbers of mobs for drops… in any other situation (including from drops in dungeons and such) it seems my best loot from mobs and chests happen when things die real fast… while totally anecdotal, i frequently feel like faster, mass kills give way more loot than running from 1 to the next, to the next :/
Reading more and more in this thread I can see one person being in love with AC. Is it the only dungeon he can beat?
1. Ascalonian armor is the best bunker armor in the game currently. Power/toughness/vitality.
2. It very low risk, moderate reward.
3. It’s quick. I only have to spend an hour of my time to make 3+ gold. That buys a lot of WvW upgrades and gear repairs.
4. I ONLY WEAR MF GEAR ON EASY STUFF WHERE LOSING A BIT OF DPS JUST DOESN’T MATTER, AND AC IS DEFINTELY EASY STUFF. Since this thread is about MF gear, and I’m defending MF gear, I’m only going to defend it those cicrumstances I feel it’s acceptable. You’ll never catch me running Arah exploraton or level 40+ fractals in MF gear. Hence, I’m not talking about Arah or level 40+ fractals.
But your view isnt honest. Sure its easy and quick even if you wear MF, but how quick is it when your whole party wears MF. You are still underpreforming in a non-MF group when you wear MF gear. Thats just fact, you will never have the preformance of a real set. Thats where it becomes selfish, for a tiny gain of roughly 50-70s per run (your own numbers) you skip the good of the group for the good of yourself.
You would also be better off just running a fractal 10+ for a much higher income, without the need for MF gear. Something that takes 45m-1h to complete.
Also, point #1 doesnt matter, because you dont need MF gear to obtain it, so its a moot point. MF doesnt improve your speed or chance of getting it.
There are instances/fractals where a full MF group would lie dead in their tracks, not being able to push through due to lack of dps. Same goes for any group with a lack of dps. I’m also curious how the new patch and no WP bumrushing will effect the MF users. Just another reason not to grab them. Lower damage, lower survivability, so you have to spend more time fighting, which results in a bigger risk of wiping and having to start over on the boss.
Dude. You have to stay with me here. I wasn’t talking about MF in those 4 points. I was responding to why I’m talking about AC so much in this thread.
Oh, and to answer your ‘lack of DPS’ concern…how is one of the highest DPS set in the game turribul turrbul zomg can’t take them? Pretty sure a well built DPS toon in explorer gear is doing his or her fair share of DPS. The problem with explorer isn’t DPS, it’s survivability.
(p.s. please note ‘one of’ in my statement. It means it’s not THE highest which would be zerker or rampager depending on build and/or opponent, but only ONE OF the highest.)
Hey I just met you – And this is crazy –
But here’s my body – So rez me maybe?
But here’s my body – So rez me maybe?
This is, fundamentally, a conversation about a couple extra minutes in a dungeon versus a couple extra rare drops, in a game we play with our free time and with our disposable income. All the extra self-righteousness and mathematical hand-waving in the world doesn’t change that.
I don’t let my kids play MMOs— because of people like the ones in this thread.
absolutely true.
what ever happened to all the fun in the world?
a man who doesnt make mistakes doesnt do anything
(edited by innocens.1582)
.23%? You’re giving up your primary stat, that’s 1003 attribute points, leaving you only your two 698s. (689×2)/(698×2 + 1003)=58.19% That’s quite a lot worse. Of course if you’re only looking offensively, then (698×2)/(1003 + 698)=82.07% plus critical damage. Huge difference between 41.8% 18% and .23%
And wearing mf armor doesn’t increase your skill stat, you’re just as skilled as the rest of us.
You are missing my points here. What Im saying is that using best stats available is completly unnecessary since the game content is incredibly easy. You dont have gearchecks in dungeons/raids (oops we dont have raids) where you NEED extra powerful stats to beat content. This game has no real challenge, so a group with 5 decent players using MF can beat ANY content. I know WoW-boys will whine about doing it 3 minutes faster per run (dunno how you survive without a damage meter addon), but since there is no real challenge in GW2 there is no reason to worry about this. If you worry, well, then dont do PUGs, gather 4 other friends who take the game too seriously and go for AC World record.
All I see here is the good old american problem: “wait, he is getting better stuff than I am and it is not fair that anyone else gets more stuff than I do”.
The thing is, you’re not really get much more out of that extra 100+% magic find. It only affects rare drops from monsters, which is very low, so its still not much at double rate. It’s only worth using when the extra rares are valuable, like lodestones, but just for extra ectos? You’ll make more money/hour just from the extra time you save using normal gear since most of the money is from the chests and end rewards.
If it was actually a “no one should get more stuff than me” thing, then no one would be arguing about this and we’d all go out and buy mf gear. Perhaps you’re projecting your real feelings and that’s why you defend mf gear?Also, I’ve never played WoW. Funny how you just jump to insulting people by accusing them of playing another successful MMO when you run out of things to say and then you don’t even get it right.
And why are we now suddenly assuming it’s grinding AC? First it’s mf users are all magically more skilled, now it’s people running AC and nothing else.I dont really care if people will get or not more fat stuff by using MF gear. There are people who like using it and, placebo or not, I dont see a problem. Game is not about making money/hour, it is about having fun (which I know is not that easy considering all the grind and the lack of content, but this is for another thread). People blame other people’s mf gear for their personal lack of ability to play the game.
And if you never played WoW, this is the reason you dont understand what Im saying and stated Im “insulting people by accusing them of playing another successful MMO”. Im not insulting anyone. This IS the way things work in WoW. To make end game content you MUST use equipment A, build B and rotation C or people dont want you in their group because, well, because the “drops/hour will be worse”. So if you have no idea on what you are talking about, you should just run your fractals instead of whining in forums.
And about the AC thing, dude, you are really short sighted, arent you? This was an ironic example. Dont take things too serious. Neither the text nor the game. And go buy your mf gear instead of whining. A monkey with a mouse can beat any content in this game if you give him enough bananas, which makes all this mf discussion stupid.
OK!
So…..why are you so vehemently defending MF gear so?
Vehemently defending? Im only stating it is ridiculous to be against mf. There is a crusade against mf in a game where challenge is near zero because “you sacrifice some stats”. Just let people use whatever they want. That is what I am vehemently defending.
Vehemently defending? Im only stating it is ridiculous to be against mf. There is a crusade against mf in a game where challenge is near zero because “you sacrifice some stats”. Just let people use whatever they want. That is what I am vehemently defending.
The issue is that MF users are selfish to impose such change for their sole benefit. No matter how small the change is, it remains that they made a selfish decision against their party members in a game that should be cooperative.
Just average every player MF in a party ANet and everything will be fine.
I dont really care if people will get or not more fat stuff by using MF gear. There are people who like using it and, placebo or not, I dont see a problem. Game is not about making money/hour, it is about having fun (which I know is not that easy considering all the grind and the lack of content, but this is for another thread). People blame other people’s mf gear for their personal lack of ability to play the game.
And if you never played WoW, this is the reason you dont understand what Im saying and stated Im “insulting people by accusing them of playing another successful MMO”. Im not insulting anyone. This IS the way things work in WoW. To make end game content you MUST use equipment A, build B and rotation C or people dont want you in their group because, well, because the “drops/hour will be worse”. So if you have no idea on what you are talking about, you should just run your fractals instead of whining in forums.
And about the AC thing, dude, you are really short sighted, arent you? This was an ironic example. Dont take things too serious. Neither the text nor the game. And go buy your mf gear instead of whining. A monkey with a mouse can beat any content in this game if you give him enough bananas, which makes all this mf discussion stupid.
Not playing WoW means I have no idea what I’m talking about when it comes to GW2? Makes perfect sense.
And going back to the non-mfers just don’t have skill thing again I see.
(edited by Navzar.2938)
OK!
So…..why are you so vehemently defending MF gear so?
Vehemently defending? Im only stating it is ridiculous to be against mf. There is a crusade against mf in a game where challenge is near zero because “you sacrifice some stats”. Just let people use whatever they want. That is what I am vehemently defending.
And reasons are given why they feel that it’s important, in fact you yourself call it a “crusade” yourself, what sort of horse manure is that? just because the game is “easy mode” that suddenly changes the fact that it takes outwardly useful stats and trades them for purely selfish gain which in fact can be PROVEN to cause acquisition to be slower, harder (although arguably not by much) and ultimately less rewarding overall, and yet any suggestion that it’s replaced by just overall LARGER and BETTER drop rates in the game to offset the now defunct stat are shot down, the only reason for that is greed, and not “choice” as people are trying to kid themselves with. Between players making out that it’s “scrooge” behavior and or “envy” aka all the usual rubbish responses that people make up to come across as completely altruistic, pure and unbiased. Honestly where does this start to make cold hard sense?
doesn’t even work on large chests…. perfect sense! /sarcasm
Irony…. xD
Vehemently defending? Im only stating it is ridiculous to be against mf. There is a crusade against mf in a game where challenge is near zero because “you sacrifice some stats”. Just let people use whatever they want. That is what I am vehemently defending.
The issue is that MF users are selfish to impose such change for their sole benefit. No matter how small the change is, it remains that they made a selfish decision against their party members in a game that should be cooperative.
Just average every player MF in a party ANet and everything will be fine.
Apparently MF users are selfish because they are not contributing to party? So if someone was to use T/V gear they are not contributing because they are only thinking of their own well-being, lets make T/V average amongst all players to make it fair. What about people using stats for boon duration? Are they selfish because their gear only extends their boons and not the party…. are they selfish? Berserkers, you putt less in survivability because you want to do more damage…. since you are likely to die for not wearing toughness does that make you selfish? This discussion is like punching a wall, just because you can start a fight and hit it does not mean you can knock it down.
For all the anti-MF users, can you give me an example of Pro-MF users forcing you to wear berserkers, knights, givers, etc.? Chances are no, because you are the only people that care about forcing stat decisions on other people. Grow up and play the game you want and not forcing others to play the game you want. At the end of the day I could give a crap what you wear to a dungeon as long as you are social, polite and are having fun.
“Some of my best friends are heterosexual”
T/V armor allows the player to tank and not get killed. It’s not a favorite of mine but it does allow the players that cannot dodge all attacks to survive better and still do damage. Replace a PVT armor set from a player with something else more offensive and you might be getting him killed which is counter productive for the party.
Explorer armor on the other hand, you replace the player gear with Berserk armor and he’s instantly more useful for the group plain and simple, the only thing that changes is that the ex-Explorer player will get lower quality loots than before. The same quality loots as the rest of the party in fact.
We are forcing stats on you? Poor kid. You are forcing me to work harder to improve your own loots. How is that fair?
Reading more and more in this thread I can see one person being in love with AC. Is it the only dungeon he can beat?
1. Ascalonian armor is the best bunker armor in the game currently. Power/toughness/vitality.
2. It very low risk, moderate reward.
3. It’s quick. I only have to spend an hour of my time to make 3+ gold. That buys a lot of WvW upgrades and gear repairs.
4. I ONLY WEAR MF GEAR ON EASY STUFF WHERE LOSING A BIT OF DPS JUST DOESN’T MATTER, AND AC IS DEFINTELY EASY STUFF. Since this thread is about MF gear, and I’m defending MF gear, I’m only going to defend it those cicrumstances I feel it’s acceptable. You’ll never catch me running Arah exploraton or level 40+ fractals in MF gear. Hence, I’m not talking about Arah or level 40+ fractals.
But your view isnt honest. Sure its easy and quick even if you wear MF, but how quick is it when your whole party wears MF. You are still underpreforming in a non-MF group when you wear MF gear. Thats just fact, you will never have the preformance of a real set. Thats where it becomes selfish, for a tiny gain of roughly 50-70s per run (your own numbers) you skip the good of the group for the good of yourself.
You would also be better off just running a fractal 10+ for a much higher income, without the need for MF gear. Something that takes 45m-1h to complete.
Also, point #1 doesnt matter, because you dont need MF gear to obtain it, so its a moot point. MF doesnt improve your speed or chance of getting it.
There are instances/fractals where a full MF group would lie dead in their tracks, not being able to push through due to lack of dps. Same goes for any group with a lack of dps. I’m also curious how the new patch and no WP bumrushing will effect the MF users. Just another reason not to grab them. Lower damage, lower survivability, so you have to spend more time fighting, which results in a bigger risk of wiping and having to start over on the boss.
Dude. You have to stay with me here. I wasn’t talking about MF in those 4 points. I was responding to why I’m talking about AC so much in this thread.
Oh, and to answer your ‘lack of DPS’ concern…how is one of the highest DPS set in the game turribul turrbul zomg can’t take them? Pretty sure a well built DPS toon in explorer gear is doing his or her fair share of DPS. The problem with explorer isn’t DPS, it’s survivability.
(p.s. please note ‘one of’ in my statement. It means it’s not THE highest which would be zerker or rampager depending on build and/or opponent, but only ONE OF the highest.)
But AC isnt whats being discussed in this thread, its about the difference in MF gear compared to useful gear. Everything is done better and quicker in proper gear, even AC.
Explorer gear is awful for dps, just like you proved by posting your stats earlier in the thread. Attack, crit, critdmg does not lie, it’s simple math. You also claim ramapgers would be higher damage, when there are actually better dps sets for condi classes that provide more survivability aswell i.e Rabid gear.
You will never reach close to the same condi damage bonus with rampager since rabid syncs much better with undead runes and some class traits. The power you gain from rampagers is not worth it, since condi is the lesser stat. Rabid has condi as main stat and still keeps the same precision, in addition to that you will gain even more from undead runes due to the toughness on rabid.
Let Valkyries guide me to my destiny.