Guild Wars 2

There is no endgame. My main is 53, and I have a lvl 20 and 31 alts. Rank 20 spvp. I wvw occasionally. I have 215 hours logged and I feel Ive barely scratched the game. End game is really what you make it in this game. If you make grinding your endgame then that’s your own approach, one that this game wasn’t really built for. Open your mind and go explore.

The game needs to be played more like Skyrim and less like WoW. If you’re stuck in the mindset of “I have to get to max level to have fun” then you are doing it wrong.

Gilandred.9870:

The game needs to be played more like Skyrim and less like WoW. If you’re stuck in the mindset of “I have to get to max level to have fun” then you are doing it wrong.

Huh? I know a lot guys who have explored pretty much everything and don’t like pvp or making alts

Well what u are gona do then? Again same dungeonds or what?
Edit: a lot played gw2 like skyrim play 1 month and then get bored of it. But some of people came here to qq about end game before quiting

Diaboligue.8795:

Gilandred.9870:

The game needs to be played more like Skyrim and less like WoW. If you’re stuck in the mindset of “I have to get to max level to have fun” then you are doing it wrong.

Huh? I know a lot guys who have explored pretty much everything and don’t like pvp or making alts

Well what u are gona do then? Again same dungeonds or what?

They could easily play something else and come back to GW2 when they feel like it. I don’t play the exact same game over and over and over again, so I’m not sure why other people feel the need to act as if they need to.

I mean, if you feel like you are done with the game, don’t feel obligated to stay. I’m sure they have to add in new zones at some points for major content patches. After all, there’s still a good part of Maguuma, the Crystal Desert or even the Ring of Fire we haven’t seen yet but is part of the world map. And if Orr is the only high level zone, then well shucks :/

I don’t mean this in offense but when you have explored every nook and crannie and seen a bulk of the content, you can move on and do other things. GW2 doesn’t have a monthly commitment fee you must utilize in order to feel you’ve got your money’s worth. If you have had the time to 100% the whole world, you already did.

I know when I played GW1, it was a long career but it wasn’t non-stop. I most definitely took breaks sometimes a year even. Still it was nice to return every once in awhile to see what’s new and try my hand at the new content.

I think the end game is just fine. its called pvp. what pisses me off is the preponderance of bugs and balance issues.

pve and pvp

WvW goes hand in hand with pve and most of the class balance issues can be chalked up to general game engine failings.

Gilandred.9870:

The game needs to be played more like Skyrim and less like WoW. If you’re stuck in the mindset of “I have to get to max level to have fun” then you are doing it wrong.

Agreed. And that also applies to the fact that in Skyrim the “end game” is all the other quests you probably didn’t get around to whilst doing the main storyline.

Also if you only played Skyrim for a month and then stopped you either devoted every free moment to the game or you missed a lot of it.

The difference between this game and others comes down to how you set goals. In a lot of MMOs, the game establishes clear cut goals at end game – usually related to some ongoing cycle (what people refer to as the treadmill) of getting better and better gear.

What Ive found in GW2 is that there are no clear cut goals established by the game at end game. Instead, it is up to the player to define what they want from the game. For my first level 80, I set a few short term goals, including map completion, mastering all of the story mode dungeons, getting full exotic gear, etc – and longer term goals, including mastering (not just finishing) each and every explorable mode dungeon, getting three specific cultural weapons with Karma, working on a specific dungeon armor set and, eventually, creating a legendary weapon for myself.

As I finish these, I find myself setting additional goals – related to both PVE and PVP – such as helping guild mates get the dungeon set they want, dominating the jumping puzzles, etc.

On top of these things, I will often log on and decide I want to just have fun tackling dynamic events in a certain zone for a few hours. There is no real goal associated (except maybe earning Karma/skillpoints from post-80 leveling), but it is engaging and fun nonetheless.

There are merits to clearly defined end game path, such as those found in other games. There are also merits to a more open-ended system in which the player defines goals. It comes down to personal preference and what you expect from the game.

Lumines.3916:

I mean, if you feel like you are done with the game, don’t feel obligated to stay. I’m sure they have to add in new zones at some points for major content patches. After all, there’s still a good part of Maguuma, the Crystal Desert or even the Ring of Fire we haven’t seen yet but is part of the world map. And if Orr is the only high level zone, then well shucks :/

I don’t mean this in offense but when you have explored every nook and crannie and seen a bulk of the content, you can move on and do other things. GW2 doesn’t have a monthly commitment fee you must utilize in order to feel you’ve got your money’s worth. If you have had the time to 100% the whole world, you already did.

I know when I played GW1, it was a long career but it wasn’t non-stop. I most definitely took breaks sometimes a year even. Still it was nice to return every once in awhile to see what’s new and try my hand at the new content.

This is an excellent point. You’re not paying by the month and there is no penalty for leaving and returning, so there’s no harm in doing so.

I do it all the time with all my games. There’s some I play pretty much continuously in that I never take big breaks but even then I might not play for a few days or a week. And at the other end of the scale I’ll go back and replay games I haven’t touched for years, even if there will never be any new content.

(There is one game I’ve been playing for years and still feel like I’ll never find everything it has to offer, but that’s a very different kettle of fish. It’s called Creatures and if anyone’s ever heard of it you’ll know what I mean. If you haven’t then it’d take a long time and a lot of persuading to explain.)

Lumines.3916:

I mean, if you feel like you are done with the game, don’t feel obligated to stay. I’m sure they have to add in new zones at some points for major content patches. After all, there’s still a good part of Maguuma, the Crystal Desert or even the Ring of Fire we haven’t seen yet but is part of the world map. And if Orr is the only high level zone, then well shucks :/

I don’t mean this in offense but when you have explored every nook and crannie and seen a bulk of the content, you can move on and do other things. GW2 doesn’t have a monthly commitment fee you must utilize in order to feel you’ve got your money’s worth. If you have had the time to 100% the whole world, you already did.

I know when I played GW1, it was a long career but it wasn’t non-stop. I most definitely took breaks sometimes a year even. Still it was nice to return every once in awhile to see what’s new and try my hand at the new content.

Good point but many think that since this is mmo it supposed to be something
U play non stop for half year or something^^

Pop quiz:

If “everything is endgame”, then why is there a leveling system at all? Isn’t it contradictory?

Blaeys.3102:

The difference between this game and others comes down to how you set goals. In a lot of MMOs, the game establishes clear cut goals at end game – usually related to some ongoing cycle (what people refer to as the treadmill) of getting better and better gear.

What Ive found in GW2 is that there are no clear cut goals established by the game at end game. Instead, it is up to the player to define what they want from the game. For my first level 80, I set a few short term goals, including map completion, mastering all of the story mode dungeons, getting full exotic gear, etc – and longer term goals, including mastering (not just finishing) each and every explorable mode dungeon, getting three specific cultural weapons with Karma, working on a specific dungeon armor set and, eventually, creating a legendary weapon for myself.

As I finish these, I find myself setting additional goals – related to both PVE and PVP – such as helping guild mates get the dungeon set they want, dominating the jumping puzzles, etc.

On top of these things, I will often log on and decide I want to just have fun tackling dynamic events in a certain zone for a few hours. There is no real goal associated (except maybe earning Karma/skillpoints from post-80 leveling), but it is engaging and fun nonetheless.

There are merits to clearly defined end game path, such as those found in other games. There are also merits to a more open-ended system in which the player defines goals. It comes down to personal preference and what you expect from the game.

Coming from EVE online I have to say I disagree with you.

In this game you are punished for working towards specific goals you define with diminishing returns. In a game like EVE you are rewarded for working efficiently towards your goals. This game only encourages you to randomly login for 30 minutes and just mess around.

Lance Coolee.9480:

Pop quiz:

If “everything is endgame”, then why is there a leveling system at all? Isn’t it contradictory?

At one point they were going to scrap levelling completely. They also considered including it but never having a level cap – only diminishing rewards at each level.

But the way I look at it levelling does 2 things:
1) “unlocks” new areas. In theory you can run straight from the starting point to Orr if you know the way. In practice you’d never get there because the enemies along the way would one-shot you. So you need to level up in order to be able to do everything.
2) It’s an easy way of tracking your progress through the various forms of character progression. You gradually unlock things like traits, new skills, elites etc. as you’re levelling up and when you hit 80 you know you’ve got them all.

So to me it’s just another mechanic that enables and informs your progress, rather than a goal in it’s own right.

Danikat.8537:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Pop quiz:

If “everything is endgame”, then why is there a leveling system at all? Isn’t it contradictory?

At one point they were going to scrap levelling completely. They also considered including it but never having a level cap – only diminishing rewards at each level.

But the way I look at it levelling does 2 things:
1) “unlocks” new areas. In theory you can run straight from the starting point to Orr if you know the way. In practice you’d never get there because the enemies along the way would one-shot you. So you need to level up in order to be able to do everything.
2) It’s an easy way of tracking your progress through the various forms of character progression. You gradually unlock things like traits, new skills, elites etc. as you’re levelling up and when you hit 80 you know you’ve got them all.

So to me it’s just another mechanic that enables and informs your progress, rather than a goal in it’s own right.

I would like to read where they would’ve scrapped leveling. IMO, that would be a fairly innovative direction.

The issue (I see) is that there’s so much that advertises the entire game as being “endgame”; however goals aren’t exactly atomic. IE, everything feels as if it was originally intended to be a vertical progression from content to crafting.

If they had actually came in w/ a no-leveling concept, that would have opened so many doors for the game (granted there would have needed to be some introductory pre-req to get players familiar w/ their character and the game mechanics).

Lance Coolee.9480:

Pop quiz:

If “everything is endgame”, then why is there a leveling system at all? Isn’t it contradictory?

Leveling has been one of my favorite aspects of RPGs because you get to see a character grow and develop. Think of Dragon kitten and Goku during the Raditz saga as being from level 1-5 and is level 80 (exponentially stronger beyond comprehension) when he defeated Omega Shenron. I think games need to make the increased power more obvious plotwise since storywise it seems too… static. Dragon Warrior and older Final Fantasy games did this and I think Phantasy Star 2 when it’s released will too. PS2 will be free to play but probably pay to be a pro too and I’ll play it unless being a “pro” is way too cost-prohibitive.

Lance Coolee.9480:

Danikat.8537:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Pop quiz:

If “everything is endgame”, then why is there a leveling system at all? Isn’t it contradictory?

At one point they were going to scrap levelling completely. They also considered including it but never having a level cap – only diminishing rewards at each level.

But the way I look at it levelling does 2 things:
1) “unlocks” new areas. In theory you can run straight from the starting point to Orr if you know the way. In practice you’d never get there because the enemies along the way would one-shot you. So you need to level up in order to be able to do everything.
2) It’s an easy way of tracking your progress through the various forms of character progression. You gradually unlock things like traits, new skills, elites etc. as you’re levelling up and when you hit 80 you know you’ve got them all.

So to me it’s just another mechanic that enables and informs your progress, rather than a goal in it’s own right.

I would like to read where they would’ve scrapped leveling. IMO, that would be a fairly innovative direction.

The issue (I see) is that there’s so much that advertises the entire game as being “endgame”; however goals aren’t exactly atomic. IE, everything feels as if it was originally intended to be a vertical progression from content to crafting.

If they had actually came in w/ a no-leveling concept, that would have opened so many doors for the game (granted there would have needed to be some introductory pre-req to get players familiar w/ their character and the game mechanics).

I think maybe replace level with a DBZ like power level, and certain quests cannot be completed unless you have over of a certain stat, like needing to move a certain rock would need over 100 strength, or a certain puzzle 100 intelligence (not for this game obviously but for the genre in general).

Also, The Secret World had a no leveling system and it wasn’t that great, all it did was substitute level with gear. If your gear is strong for you then it doesn’t feel very heroic, as if Superman’s power came from his cape rather than just being a strong dude who wears a symbol of nobility to hide the outline of his… behind. I did like however their segregation between armor graphics and armor pieces (in that game called “talismans”), where you could look how you want and equip the stats you want.

I am SO incredibly sick of people like this OP. Endgame is endgame, get over it. Stop making excuses. The point of playing a game with levels is to enjoy the content made for those levels.

I love so many zones in this game. From Sylvari low level areas to Frostgorge. But do NOT tell me what to think about the content that your schedule has excluded you from. You have no right, no matter how entitled daddy and Obama have made you feel.

I’m at 91% map completion. I have a full set of “fighting” exotics and a full set of “MF” exotics. I have a guild of fantastic people. I partake badly in pvp but I do it because its hilarious. I’m 400 in leatherwork because I wanted the armor. I’m working on huntsman now.

Yes I have things to do, but if you haven’t tested the portions of this game designed for endgame, what twisted sense of self righteousness makes you DARE comment on it? You should be ashamed of yourself. The utter gall of of you even posting this drivel fills me with revulsion and makes me feel sad for your parents.

Many players (myself included) are used to their mmo experience being questing to cap, then having an entirely different gameplay format.

GW2 gives you that gameplay format, without the intention to change it at level cap. This gives players the feeling that there is nothing to do.

^ I don’t even want a different format, I’d live with the same format. Give me dragon fights and world achievements. Give me fun events in a zone that isn’t a catapult laden midfield of kittene. And let me play in that zone in whatever fashion that appeals to my personality .

there is no endgame, deal with it

Either play the game cause you like it or don’t, I’ll never understand the entitled whiners on MMO forums. When I’m done with a game I move on, maybe come back in a few months. Why people need to complain that there’s nothing to do in a game they have spent literally hundred of hours on confounds me.

I’m enjoying playing this game like Skyrim.

But you know what? Unlike Skyrim, this game has some great combat, and it’s a huge shame it’s not put to full use, needs to be harder DE’s and fights to keep us interested (outside of dungeons).

Hunterdan.4921:

Many players (myself included) are used to their mmo experience being questing to cap, then having an entirely different gameplay format.

GW2 gives you that gameplay format, without the intention to change it at level cap. This gives players the feeling that there is nothing to do.

that and well, we only have 1 viable zone for level 80. I’m sure people like Op will argue due to scaling we have all zones. But until he hits 80 I’m fairly sure he has no idea what he’s talking about pretty much exactly like the original post he put up.

I love when people who haven’t been to all of the half-assed locations, all of the broken events that make up the higher level zones, and who haven’t seen the very obvious grind focus designed into the high-end PvE experience, try to tell people how the end-game PvE works. It’s really quite cute. Sure, there’s other kitten you can do such as PvP, but that doesn’t change the fact that the top-end content is severely flawed and needs to be fixed and revamped.

bwillb.2165:

I love when people who haven’t been to all of the half-assed locations, all of the broken events that make up the higher level zones, and who haven’t seen the very obvious grind focus designed into the high-end PvE experience, try to tell people how the end-game PvE works.

So how do you react when people like me who have been level 80 for weeks and are creeping closer and closer to that 100% tell you that you’re overreacting and, in the case of the alleged “mandatory grind”, flat-out wrong?

I mean, you can pretend that everyone saying “L2P” is some lowbie who hasn’t done enough of the game to make a judgement, but it won’t make it true.

DusK.3849:

bwillb.2165:

I love when people who haven’t been to all of the half-assed locations, all of the broken events that make up the higher level zones, and who haven’t seen the very obvious grind focus designed into the high-end PvE experience, try to tell people how the end-game PvE works.

So how do you react when people like me who have been level 80 for weeks and are creeping closer and closer to that 100% tell you that you’re overreacting and, in the case of the alleged “mandatory grind”, flat-out wrong?

I mean, you can pretend that everyone saying “L2P” is some lowbie who hasn’t done enough of the game to make a judgement, but it won’t make it true.

Well, first off, you’re putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say “mandatory grind”, I said that a grind was designed into the game as the “end-game content”. You don’t HAVE to grind, but you’re not going to get cool stuff if you don’t. Second, 100% world completion doesn’t really mean much, all it means is that you’ve done the hearts and vistas and skill challenges. Okay, you’ve got those done. Now what? Have you collected all of the dungeon armor sets? Have you created legendary weapons? Have you taken back every corner of Orr only to have the events either bug out, or have them finish and then reset 5 minutes later, wiping out your contribution to the world? Have you even finished the personal story?

bwillb.2165:

DusK.3849:

bwillb.2165:

I love when people who haven’t been to all of the half-assed locations, all of the broken events that make up the higher level zones, and who haven’t seen the very obvious grind focus designed into the high-end PvE experience, try to tell people how the end-game PvE works.

So how do you react when people like me who have been level 80 for weeks and are creeping closer and closer to that 100% tell you that you’re overreacting and, in the case of the alleged “mandatory grind”, flat-out wrong?

I mean, you can pretend that everyone saying “L2P” is some lowbie who hasn’t done enough of the game to make a judgement, but it won’t make it true.

Well, first off, you’re putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say “mandatory grind”, I said that a grind was designed into the game as the “end-game content”. You don’t HAVE to grind, but you’re not going to get cool stuff if you don’t. Second, 100% world completion doesn’t really mean much, all it means is that you’ve done the hearts and vistas and skill challenges. Okay, you’ve got those done. Now what? Have you collected all of the dungeon armor sets? Have you created legendary weapons? Have you taken back every corner of Orr only to have the events either bug out, or have them finish and then reset 5 minutes later, wiping out your contribution to the world? Have you even finished the personal story?

No, because if I had done all that, I would have experienced a good 300+ hours of content and gotten my $60 worth.

DusK.3849:

bwillb.2165:

DusK.3849:

bwillb.2165:

I love when people who haven’t been to all of the half-assed locations, all of the broken events that make up the higher level zones, and who haven’t seen the very obvious grind focus designed into the high-end PvE experience, try to tell people how the end-game PvE works.

So how do you react when people like me who have been level 80 for weeks and are creeping closer and closer to that 100% tell you that you’re overreacting and, in the case of the alleged “mandatory grind”, flat-out wrong?

I mean, you can pretend that everyone saying “L2P” is some lowbie who hasn’t done enough of the game to make a judgement, but it won’t make it true.

Well, first off, you’re putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say “mandatory grind”, I said that a grind was designed into the game as the “end-game content”. You don’t HAVE to grind, but you’re not going to get cool stuff if you don’t. Second, 100% world completion doesn’t really mean much, all it means is that you’ve done the hearts and vistas and skill challenges. Okay, you’ve got those done. Now what? Have you collected all of the dungeon armor sets? Have you created legendary weapons? Have you taken back every corner of Orr only to have the events either bug out, or have them finish and then reset 5 minutes later, wiping out your contribution to the world? Have you even finished the personal story?

No, because if I had done all that, I would have experienced a good 300+ hours of content and gotten my $60 worth.

And a good chunk of that 300 hours would have been boring grind. Not saying you wouldn’t have still gotten your money’s worth, hell a lot of AAA titles give you far less game time than that. But that doesn’t change the fact that much of the end-game stuff needs to be reworked, and problems can’t be solved if no one brings them up in the first place. Getting your money’s worth is great, but it’s making people want to keep playing and wanting to continue the adventure that will keep this game alive.

bwillb.2165:

And a good chunk of that 300 hours would have been boring grind.

Since when? cause last time I checked, I’m 200+ hours in and haven’t done a single minute of grinding. I don’t expect that to change.

DusK.3849:

bwillb.2165:

And a good chunk of that 300 hours would have been boring grind.

Since when? cause last time I checked, I’m 200+ hours in and haven’t done a single minute of grinding. I don’t expect that to change.

Since you decided to collect the dungeon armor sets, craft legendary weapons, and spend some time in Orr hacking away at nameless zombies to finish an event that resets 2 minutes later, of course.

Gilandred.9870:

The game needs to be played more like Skyrim and less like WoW. If you’re stuck in the mindset of “I have to get to max level to have fun” then you are doing it wrong.

This is an MMO people expect different things from it, usally progression (aka something to work toward) and that’s what keeps alot of us playing. Some people dont need that and thats great, you can explore did your fingers hurt is a beautiful game to do that. MANY other players want things to do after they level and not just go do the same thing they did for 80 levels some dont like leveling alts. Some people like changeling MMO content WHICH RIGHT NOW THERE REALLY ISNT ANY (pve)