Guild Wars 2

and by that I mean the nickle and diming grindy feel whenever you want to change your character’s appearance or have more than character 5 slots or more bank slots or….etc. Like I paid 50+ USD $ for it when it originally came out. Played since day 1. I’ve got like two, TWO pieces of cosmetics I’ve unlocked (like the special ones you can apply for free) . Seriously? There are f2p games with more cosmetic options for less time spent.

Sure there are random loot crap unlocks. I’m talking about looks you’d actually want on your character. I know the token thingys arent too hard to grind but they’re still a grind. for a paid model I should be able to change my appearance on a whim.

So now paying for non-essential items is considered a grind? Have I read the post right?

zenleto.6179:

So now paying for non-essential items is considered a grind? Have I read the post right?

renaming gear grind to skins is steal a grind

You are aware that looks is rather objective subjective, right?

zenleto.6179:

So now paying for non-essential items is considered a grind? Have I read the post right?

I already paid 50 bucks plus tax for the game. Why am I still paying/grinding every time I want some decent/new/change. they are using a f2p model and still charging people.

And don’t give me non-esesential bullcrap. The whole thiing is non essential. Its a game you don’t need any of it.

However, I paid for it and I want that model of an experience out of it. That’s what people expect if they pay for a game.

Mightybird.6034:

and by that I mean the nickle and diming grindy feel whenever you want to change your character’s appearance or have more than character 5 slots or more bank slots or….etc. Like I paid 50+ USD $ for it when it originally came out. Played since day 1. I’ve got like two, TWO pieces of cosmetics I’ve unlocked. Seriously? There are f2p games with more cosmetic options for less time spent.

PS I’m focusing on cosmetic because that’s what this game is about, the horizontal cosmetic grind

PPS Yea I have TONs of crappy unlocks from random equipment drops. That’s not what I mean. Why would I want to pay to change my look to crap.

I’ve too played since day 1. Back when 100 gems cost 25 and then 35 silver for a long time.

Why didn’t you unlock account stuff back then? Took no more than maybe 30 minutes to get that money and getting a character fully geared with maximum bag slots took maybe 3-6 hours of farm.

If you have 2 pieces of cosmetics unlocked you are looking in the wrong places. There are hundreds of skins available for 1-2 silver off the TP. Now that they unlock account wide thats a steal.

Yes, rare or elite super duper awesome looking skins might cost more. Doesn’t dismiss the fact that there are hundreds of cheap skins available.

There are also a ton of f2p games where you can buy yourself success in pve, pvp, etc. Where they give you free skins because they know you have to spend money to progress or be efficient. It’s called different business models.

Maybe naming some f2p games that give you everything for free would help strengthen the argument so people can compare and the devs might be able to adjust their business plan.

They never said there isnt grind in this game. They said you dont need grind to be able to participace in any content and it works that way.

Mightybird.6034:

zenleto.6179:

So now paying for non-essential items is considered a grind? Have I read the post right?

I already paid 50 bucks plus tax for the game. Why am I still paying/grinding every time I want some decent/new/change. they are using a f2p model and still charging people.

And don’t give me non-esesential bullcrap. The whole thiing is non essential. Its a game you don’t need any of it.

But thiings are plenty essential! If we don’t have thiings then we barely exist!

I don’t know why I responded to this. I think I’ll just sit back for the rest of the thread.

It’s best to think of B2P games as F2P games with purchase of a “starter quality of life pack”. Your initial investment unlocks some nice stuff, like 5 bag slots, bank space, etc… However, the company needs a continual influx of money to survive. Therefore, the need to give incentives for people to buy …. with real money.

Mightybird.6034:

Why am I still paying/grinding every time I want some decent/new/change.

Skins are basically how this game makes its money. Since it’s popular to chase them, they make it time-consuming and pricey to get them. They hope it’ll keep people playing since there’s no actual progression to the game.

As a B2P, they’ve got to make money with their store since they have no income from monthly subs. At least their store is less essential to actual gameplay than many others where you feel like you can’t hardly do anything without buying something.

zenleto.6179:

So now paying for non-essential items is considered a grind? Have I read the post right?

Looks like, buying gems, then buying skins is a grind. I really wish these kids would learn what things mean instead of just throwing around buzz words to get attention.

Mightybird.6034:

I already paid 50 bucks plus tax for the game. Why am I still paying/grinding every time I want some decent/new/change. they are using a f2p model and still charging people.

And don’t give me non-esesential bullcrap. The whole thiing is non essential. Its a game you don’t need any of it.

However, I paid for it and I want that model of an experience out of it. That’s what people expect if they pay for a game.

You paid for access to the servers, nothing more.

You have access to every single thing currently available in the game (free if you convert gold to gems no less). Sure, you will have to work for most of it, but should you really have everything unlocked as soon as you login to the game the first time? What would the point be in playing in that case?

Mightybird.6034:

Why am I still paying/grinding every time I want some decent/new/change.

Because you seem to think “doing work” and “grinding” are equivalent? Or are unaware that a game that is intended to be played every day for months on end must necessitate repetitive content?

Many.8419:

zenleto.6179:

So now paying for non-essential items is considered a grind? Have I read the post right?

renaming gear grind to skins is steal a grind

False equivalencey. Do you even logic?

Probably because your young, naive and don’t know how businesses work.

Mightybird.6034:

and by that I mean the nickle and diming grindy feel whenever you want to change your character’s appearance or have more than character 5 slots or more bank slots or….etc. Like I paid 50+ USD $ for it when it originally came out. Played since day 1. I’ve got like two, TWO pieces of cosmetics I’ve unlocked (like the special ones you can apply for free) . Seriously? There are f2p games with more cosmetic options for less time spent.

Sure there are random loot crap unlocks. I’m talking about looks you’d actually want on your character. I know the token thingys arent too hard to grind but they’re still a grind. for a paid model I should be able to change my appearance on a whim.

I remember when WoW added transmutation, it had a gold cost. Haven’t played wow in while, but I know I was paying a monthly fee for out and still had to pay to transmute (and most of their armors were simply pallet swaps, not fully modeled like in gw2)

Cosmetics in game? I just decked out my ranger in armor/back items that were introduced in ls season 2 for free. Before that he was wearing priory which he bought with gold and applied with freely obtained transmutation charges. Using all those transmute charges doesn’t worry me because they drop for free like candy in pvp.

Have I bought outfits, skins, and bank/bag space too? Sure I have, but I DIDN’T PAY A MONTHLY FEE EITHER. So I say it balances out.

And all this complaint about having any sort of grind? It’s like you never played an mmo ever before, because grind is a universal component of the genre. Gw2 at least puts the grind on non essential things like cosmetics instead of making you grind out a whole new set of armor to be able to access each chapter of living story.

As with every business, the company decides what is provided with a purchase. The same is true of ANet and Guild Wars 2. Many things came with the initial purchase. Some cost extra. This is not unusual.

1. One of the things that is sold with the initial purchase is the fact that GW2 is an MMO. MMO audiences, at least a significant portion of them, demand long-term goals. Thus, GW2 has long-term goals.
2. Another thing that came with the initial purchase is access to the currency exchange. Gold can be exchanged for gems, which can in turn be used to obtain anything sold for gems in the GW2 store.
3. Why does it take time to acquire the gold to get these things without paying RL money? Because more people are buying gems with gold than are buying gold with gems.

“grinding” is NOT a mandatory thing to do in this game. However if you want some goodies you will have to work for it, something people tend to call a “grind”.

The game always monetized cosmetics. Besides services and convenience items, that’s what’s left. The game isn’t subscription you know, so it’s like F2P, nor does it have a subscription like VIP program or feature paywalls, so it’s not like converted to F2P.

You really have to go out of your way not to unlock some skins assuming you have been playing all this time.

The only real grind in this game is Ascended gear for fractals and that’s a fact unless you think i can go do a high fractal with full rare gear or even exotic and laurals are gated but at the same time the dungeons and fractals in this game are a joke are has the worse community in the game so you can just ignore that part unless you need it for a legendary them LOL have fun with the worse part of the game

Mightybird.6034:

and by that I mean the nickle and diming grindy feel whenever you want to change your character’s appearance or have more than character 5 slots or more bank slots or….etc. Like I paid 50+ USD $ for it when it originally came out. Played since day 1. I’ve got like two, TWO pieces of cosmetics I’ve unlocked (like the special ones you can apply for free) . Seriously? There are f2p games with more cosmetic options for less time spent.

Sure there are random loot crap unlocks. I’m talking about looks you’d actually want on your character. I know the token thingys arent too hard to grind but they’re still a grind. for a paid model I should be able to change my appearance on a whim.

Is GW2 the only MMO you have played? Everything is a grind/work in any MMO. Level, gold, reputation, gear, achievements, etc is always involves a chunk of time to obtain, and good luck finding one that doesn’t require some level of it.

If you really have been playing since release and have unlocked only 2 pieces of unique cosmetic gear, you are clearly doing something wrong. That being said, it sounds to me from the way you have worded this post, that you just want everything up front with zero effort rather than working towards it. That’s fine and all, but you won’t find that in this MMO or any other.

lordkrall.7241:

You are aware that looks is rather objective, right?

Subjective not objective.

I don’t understand how someone can play a game since day 1 and Three Years later even ask this question.

I bought a car three years ago:

• now it comes in green, I want a new paint job for free
• tinted windows are now available, I want them for free too
• they now have a stereo with more power and an MP3 player available, you guess it, free me baby

When you bought the game 3 years ago you paid for what the game offered THREE YEARS AGO.
You want more stuff, dust off the wallet or convert some of the Hundreds of gold that you should have in inventory after 3 years

Valky.2574:

The only real grind in this game is Ascended gear for fractals and that’s a fact unless you think i can go do a high fractal with full rare gear or even exotic and laurals are gated but at the same time the dungeons and fractals in this game are a joke are has the worse community in the game so you can just ignore that part unless you need it for a legendary them LOL have fun with the worse part of the game

A matter of opinon.
Working on my second set of ascended armor (light), and not once has it felt like a grind. Is it required for high level fractals? Thats debatable, as you can get max agony resistance purely from accesories.

Aside from a few skins, there really is nothing in this game that requires a grind. In any way shape or form. Period.

Now can we close this thread and merge it with the other “GW2 is so grindy QQ!!!” thread? Thanks!

There are so many skins that don’t require gems. And you can get transmutation stones from multiple things ingame. Dailies, sPvP. World completion. Or earn gold and convert it to gems. There’s hardly any grind in this game compared to games if the past. It’s such a cakewalk.

Playing the game is not grind. The only way you’re gonna get instant gratification is if you get a single player game and use cheat codes

Mightybird.6034:

zenleto.6179:

So now paying for non-essential items is considered a grind? Have I read the post right?

I already paid 50 bucks plus tax for the game. Why am I still paying/grinding every time I want some decent/new/change. they are using a f2p model and still charging people.

And don’t give me non-esesential bullcrap. The whole thiing is non essential. Its a game you don’t need any of it.

However, I paid for it and I want that model of an experience out of it. That’s what people expect if they pay for a game.

F2P is NEVER free to play.

Your arguments are based on you not wanting to accept what is NEEDED to play the game and what is WANTED while playing the game. Trying to convince you any differently seems pointless.

Mo Mo.1947:

There are so many skins that don’t require gems. And you can get transmutation stones from multiple things ingame. Dailies, sPvP. World completion. Or earn gold and convert it to gems. There’s hardly any grind in this game compared to games if the past. It’s such a cakewalk.

Playing the game is not grind. The only way you’re gonna get instant gratification is if you get a single player game and use cheat codes

This game, from a MMO standpoint, is pretty much the epitome of instant gratification. There are no barriers to content, you can switch from spvp, pve, wvw instantly, there aren’t restrictions or penalty for switching builds, etc. As you stated the only real grind is cosmetics.

Now if this is good or bad is subjective, it works for some but feels stale to others.

@op
This game should be treated like a F2P because it runs a similar model.

Mightybird.6034:

and by that I mean the nickle and diming grindy feel whenever you want to change your character’s appearance or have more than character 5 slots or more bank slots or….etc. Like I paid 50+ USD $ for it when it originally came out. Played since day 1. I’ve got like two, TWO pieces of cosmetics I’ve unlocked (like the special ones you can apply for free) . Seriously? There are f2p games with more cosmetic options for less time spent.

Sure there are random loot crap unlocks. I’m talking about looks you’d actually want on your character. I know the token thingys arent too hard to grind but they’re still a grind. for a paid model I should be able to change my appearance on a whim.

I don’t know what you’re talking about, at all. There is a huge difference when comparing other MMO’s to Guild Wars 2. That major difference is how much grinding is implemented into the game. Is there grinding in GW2? Of course there is… However, understand that you’re “grinding” for things that are obviously not just going to be handed over too you for free. It’s what gives the satisfaction on grinding it out once you’ve completed it.

Mightybird.6034:

why does gw2 feel like a grindy f2p?

The original Guild Wars made money mostly through selling new campaigns. Much like a book (in the meaning that you read a book, and if you enjoyed it you will likely buy the sequel), ArenaNet used to make content that would be fun for players, so, when players were done with it, they would wait for the next chapter of the game. The original Guild Wars didn’t get microtransactions until late in its life, and those were never the focus.

GW2 is the opposite. We do pay to buy the game, but ArenaNet’s focus is on the Gem Store. Which means, instead of focusing on fun content, ArenaNet cares about artificially increasing the game’s life by encouraging repetition (read: grind) and by encouraging daily log-ins (the dailies, now the log-in rewards) in order to increase player exposure to the Gem Store and hopefully have people buy stuff from it.

Since F2P games usually rely on the same strategy, it’s to be expected that GW2 would feel like it were F2P.

The main change, I think, is that now people are willing to pay more for less. Back in the days of the original Guild Wars – which, remember, was released more or less when WoW was first released, so pay to play and grind were not as widespread and F2P games were very rare – we didn’t have so many people willing to pay for subpar content that they don’t even enjoy but that gives them a shiny reward. Now, well…

If it feels that way then you haven’t played enough grindy f2p games.

If you had all cosmetics in this game for free, then right now, there would be 5 ’There’s nothing to do in GW2’ threads in place of this one. Probably even one from the same OP.

none.9681:

If you had all cosmetics in this game for free, then right now, there would be 5 ’There’s nothing to do in GW2’ threads in place of this one. Probably even one from the same OP.

“There is nothing to do in GW2 but grind for overpriced cosmetics” is just as bad honestly.

Mightybird.6034:

zenleto.6179:

So now paying for non-essential items is considered a grind? Have I read the post right?

I already paid 50 bucks plus tax for the game. Why am I still paying/grinding every time I want some decent/new/change. they are using a f2p model and still charging people.

And don’t give me non-esesential bullcrap. The whole thiing is non essential. Its a game you don’t need any of it.

However, I paid for it and I want that model of an experience out of it. That’s what people expect if they pay for a game.

I don’t think you understand how a Buy-to-Play game works….

Or do you believe box sales alone would be enough to keep this game running for potentially over a decade?

Convenience and cosmetics are great things people want but don’t actually need, which makes them fantastic candidates. However, Anet was smart about it. Because you can convert in-game gold into gems, they have made it so that even the poorest of people can still get gemstore items, but the trade-off is you will have to earn the gold the hard way. 800 gems for a new character slot. Boy, $10 dollars, that’s a bit steep. Well, for 142g you can buy 800 gems, and get that character slot!

A character slot for 142g is a bargain quite honestly. I’ve sadly spent far more for far less useful items.

It’s really not that bad. The comparison to other greedy f2p MMO’s is way off base.

In almost all f2p MMO’s, you cannot convert gold to other currencies, which allow you to purchase extra slots or other things. GW2 gives more freedom of choice, compared to those other MMO’s.

Draknar.5748:

I don’t think you understand how a Buy-to-Play game works….

Or do you believe box sales alone would be enough to keep this game running for potentially over a decade?

You didn’t play the original Guild Wars, did you? Guess what fueled Guild Wars: Prophecies while ArenaNet worked on the next campaign?

Test.8734:

You didn’t play the original Guild Wars, did you? Guess what fueled Guild Wars: Prophecies while ArenaNet worked on the next campaign?

What fueled Prophecies? I would guess Linage II and their subscription income.

And why do you think they abandoned that model within 2 years? Not to mention the fact that they did add a cash shop (that only accepted real money) which included more or less power-buying and such, rather soon after release.

lordkrall.7241:

What fueled Prophecies?

(…)

Not to mention the fact that they did add a cash shop (that only accepted real money) which included more or less power-buying and such, rather soon after release.

Yeah, that cash shop? It was only added to the game after the second campaign, which was a massive injection of content unlike what we got in GW2. Funny to see how the original business model was not only enough to keep the original game going but also fuel an entire second campaign, while we get a fraction of that in GW2.

And if you think selling character slots means “power-buying and such”, I’m sure you must be aghast at GW2’s Gem Store

Offair.2563:

“grinding” is NOT a mandatory thing to do in this game. However if you want some goodies you will have to work for it, something people tend to call a “grind”.

^This is so true. You have to exert lots of effort, time and patience to have those aesthetics and stuffs, which have little effects to none in regards to your character’s abilities. I admit you really feel the “grind” when you get bored thinking you’re still far from achieving your goal or some activities being too repetitive.

Set one goal at a time. Set one major goal and after that, things will be easy for the your next goal. I did this when I was working with my legendary weapons and I never thought I would be owning 5 of them now (all precursors and materials were bought with gold and without real money/gems involved).

…umm, it doesn’t feel anything like that to me, which is one of the many reasons I play.

Mightybird.6034:

zenleto.6179:

So now paying for non-essential items is considered a grind? Have I read the post right?

I already paid 50 bucks plus tax for the game. Why am I still paying/grinding every time I want some decent/new/change. they are using a f2p model and still charging people.

And don’t give me non-esesential bullcrap. The whole thiing is non essential. Its a game you don’t need any of it.

However, I paid for it and I want that model of an experience out of it. That’s what people expect if they pay for a game.

You paid for the game as it is. You don’t have to buy items from the shop if you don’t want to.

Skins are non essential items, they only change the look of a character, they don’t effect anything else.

As for the currency for altering the look of a piece of armour, they’re common enough, I get them faster than I use them. Got 214 spare at the moment.

Test.8734:

lordkrall.7241:

What fueled Prophecies?

(…)

Not to mention the fact that they did add a cash shop (that only accepted real money) which included more or less power-buying and such, rather soon after release.

Yeah, that cash shop? It was only added to the game after the second campaign, which was a massive injection of content unlike what we got in GW2. Funny to see how the original business model was not only enough to keep the original game going but also fuel an entire second campaign, while we get a fraction of that in GW2.

And if you think selling character slots means “power-buying and such”, I’m sure you must be aghast at GW2’s Gem Store

It was way more than character slots.

With cash you could buy all the skills in a campaign at the start, instead of having to play to unlock. This included PvP. You could unlock all the skill and items with cash and play your first PvP game with all skills and items instead of having to play to unlock more than the starter skills/items. You got access to better starter weapons. You got a fire imp that followed you around in PvE and leveled up to 20 with you and fought beside you (and didn’t take up a party slot). You could also buy bonus missions with exclusive weapon skins as a reward for completing. Rangers could pay to unlock all the pets. You could buy mercenaries. These were your level 20 alts who you could fully gear up and give skills to who would fight beside you.

Try doing your first PvP match with only basic skills and equipment against someone who had all the skills and items bought from the ingame store and tell me if that’s not ptw.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_In-Game_Store

The reason it may feel like a grindy f2p is because the further away from box sales they are, the more their revenue is basically the same as an f2p game.

Rozbuska.5263:

They never said there isnt grind in this game. They said you dont need grind to be able to participace in any content and it works that way.

No they just keep trying to redefine the grind just like so many others in these forums.

There’s much to answer for not just in this game but in many many others out there because other companies pay attention to design, and this game has changed the market in very very negative ways (grind and an AH centric gold conversion market where basically the developers are their own gold sellers).

I feel your pain OP we’ll see if they come to their senses with HoT.

Mightybird.6034:

and by that I mean the nickle and diming grindy feel whenever you want to change your character’s appearance or have more than character 5 slots or more bank slots or….etc. Like I paid 50+ USD $ for it when it originally came out. Played since day 1. I’ve got like two, TWO pieces of cosmetics I’ve unlocked (like the special ones you can apply for free) . Seriously? There are f2p games with more cosmetic options for less time spent.

Sure there are random loot crap unlocks. I’m talking about looks you’d actually want on your character. I know the token thingys arent too hard to grind but they’re still a grind. for a paid model I should be able to change my appearance on a whim.

Have you been playing at all then? I get that you say you’ve played since day 1, but have you taken like a 2 year break or something? I’ve got ….hmm, 3x full sets T1 & T2 Cultural Gear (Sylvari and Asura cloth, Asura medium), a full set of Asura light T3 Cultural. Beyond that all the Koden dungeon Light, almost all the Arah Light, full set of the Charr Molten dungeon Light, the 3 pieces from the Personal Story (the weird looking ones), the whole set from Living Story S2 (not the glowing, just the regular), 5 different ‘random’ sets from Hearts or world drops, 3 crafted sets, and a few of the ones created through the Forge.

And those are just the light sets. Unlocked are a ton of Medium and Heavy armors as well, I just mostly roll light characters. And beyond armors I’ve got a 1,600 gold Immobulus unlocked, 3/4ths to a Legendary, 2 Dragon weapons from Dragon Bash, 12 different event back pieces, Mawdry, and others.

And I play casually as well as took a 6 month vacation.

After finishing my legendary and basically getting all my chars equipped I discovered that I can actually look at the “cheaper” skins now and see a lot of them as quite nice looking especially when mix/matched. And hey, maybe that 400gem scarf totally pulls your ele’s look together? And maybe it’l look good on your guard as well? You can use it on all your chars now!

Like others have said, a lot of it is subjective.

It doesn’t feel like a grindy FTP. Go play one to see what those feel like and get back to us.

Many.8419:

zenleto.6179:

So now paying for non-essential items is considered a grind? Have I read the post right?

renaming gear grind to skins is steal a grind

its actually not even that, the best looking skin are only in gem store and black lion chest etc. thats what makes vanila gw2 feel like a cashshop f2p, which is why after all why isnt as popular as it would be if it had actual content, not a single one of my gamer friends even heard of gw2, which is sad. HoT FTW

Immensus.9732:

Many.8419:

zenleto.6179:

So now paying for non-essential items is considered a grind? Have I read the post right?

renaming gear grind to skins is steal a grind

its actually not even that, the best looking skin are only in gem store and black lion chest etc. thats what makes vanila gw2 feel like a cashshop f2p, which is why after all why isnt as popular as it would be if it had actual content, not a single one of my gamer friends even heard of gw2, which is sad. HoT FTW

Most BL weapon skins look awful… and some of the BL armor pieces can only pass as a joke.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It was way more than character slots.

With cash you could buy all the skills in a campaign at the start, instead of having to play to unlock. This included PvP. You could unlock all the skill and items with cash and play your first PvP game with all skills and items instead of having to play to unlock more than the starter skills/items. You got access to better starter weapons. You got a fire imp that followed you around in PvE and leveled up to 20 with you and fought beside you (and didn’t take up a party slot). You could also buy bonus missions with exclusive weapon skins as a reward for completing. Rangers could pay to unlock all the pets. You could buy mercenaries. These were your level 20 alts who you could fully gear up and give skills to who would fight beside you.

Try doing your first PvP match with only basic skills and equipment against someone who had all the skills and items bought from the ingame store and tell me if that’s not ptw.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_In-Game_Store

I can’t really comment on the PvP skill pack, because at that time I didn’t even know about it yet I unlocked all the skills in a relatively short time….. but don’t say it like there is nothing similiar in GW2 because there is even if it is not that visible.

People seem to forget that everything you can buy with gold you can buy it with cash. A new player can open his wallet to unlock every trait and get a decent gear just right after he reaches lvl 80, meanwhile another player struggle to get those in weeks. Also if they want the most prestigious items in the game? Can be solved by spending a few hunder $ and they look like they have been playing for years by day 2. I don’t really see how this is better.

It feels that way because that is what it is.