Guild Wars 2

Hi Anet, i’m a veteran that bought the game at day 1 back in 2012, i’ve 2 chars at 80, a warrior and a thief, both of them are full berserker equipped, i do dungeons, pve and pvp fine.

But i’m a bit tyred of these builds and i tried to change to make something different.

So i start with a mesmer and tried the full condition build with rabid, but after a while i realize it wasn’t effective at all, long time to kill mobs, people kick you from dungeons, and useless in pvp since everyone use condition removal food and utilities.

Then last, i tried the full support guardian in cleric gear, again no damage, heals aren’t so good as support other players, and in events i don’t get the reward sometimes even if i hit my target because of lacks of damage.

Why in this game only full berserker meta build works and is effective? Why this game is based entirely on DPS?
I remember that in GW1 you can choose the weapon you want and separate skills from a huge poll and make your own build, tanker and healer were very effective in their meta role, the tanker do low damage but was impossible to kill, the healer keep alive their mates and so on.
Then what’s the point of gear like rabid, carrion or cleric if they are worthless in the end?

I know you don’t want the trinity but at the same time i fail to see the point in having different armours and effects if everything work only with full power, precision and ferocity and the inesorable stacking?
Yes, you stack with your mates, all in zerk gear, behind a column, wait the mobs come, kill, repeat till the end.

Why don’t make pure roles more effective? If some people want to specialize more in support, tanking or healing then let them to do so and let them be good in these jobs, without removign the actual builds.

I really hoped with HOT this trend stopped, but there is no mention about it, this is the reason i don’t bought HOT yet, i want to wait that you Anet fix this issue and let people make different effective builds and playstyles.

You soudln’t ignore this issue, i’m really sick to make alts all with the same redundant zerker gear, is start to be really boring and not fun anymore.

Thanks for reading.

ps: sometimes i’m wondering if the guild or the party are necessary since you can do pratically everything alone with the zerk gear, selfheal and tanking thanks to utilities, apart world bosses indeed. Is pretty sad.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Sad-Trinity-is-Sad/first

So you want to be able to switch to different types of builds, yet you want them all to kill things as fast as zerker….

To contrast: Been playing since early release. 11 level 80s, only 1 in zerk gear that I don’t even play anymore. I PUG fotm50 regularly and all dungeon paths (on my PVT w/cleric trinkets guard mind you), have yet to be kicked from a group, nor asked to ping my gear. All runs finish smoothly in quick order, no wipes.

Take that how you wish.

I’m sure many of us are very tired of the Berserker for Everything Meta.

There certainly has been mention of roles becoming more important in raids in HOT

Why did you tried a Mesmer Rabid? Try Guardian, Ranger or Engineer. All three are pretty good in condition.

As for Cleric guardian it’s good, but just not needed in the current content. Still a Cleric Guardian can make a fractal run a lot more smoother and if you have good ally, the run won’t be that much longer. Hopefully, 1 healing guardian in a party of 10 will be a decent choice in raids.

Also, why go all the way to Clerics? You know you take a more support guardian build with zerker gear so you still make decent dps. There is also Zealot which is a better middle ground between Healing and DPS.

Hopefully, they could add a Condition Damage, Precision, Healing Power gear. That would be awesome since the Power of Sinister only give you like 5-10% additional DPS.

I didn’t notice anything relevant about this issue in HOT, i will wait to see how things will turn out.
There is no way that my 3rd character will be another zerker (atm i have a guardian full cleric but as i mentioned above it sucks hard), seems all my chars do the same things with a different weapon.

I really don’t get this.

Hopefully Anet will do something since i noticed that there are other forums that talking about the same issue.

Yeah i don’t mind every single person in the game being dps but i don’t know how ANET thought reducing the trinity to a single point would make a diverse game.

Personally, I have a feeling that all these anti-zerker threads will create an overreaction on Anets side, resulting in absurd stats-combos being promoted for both higher fractals as well as raids (has been hinted at). As a result, fights will not only become overlong and unfun, but players will also be required to grind out multiple stats-sets (the account-bound ones say hi) or even grind for legendary armor in order to adjust.

That said, I expect the players who created the anti-zerker threads to be the first ones to cry. Will quote my post accordingly once it happens in a few weeks – stay tuned.

Thaddeus.4891:

Why did you tried a Mesmer Rabid? Try Guardian, Ranger or Engineer. All three are pretty good in condition.

Tried both, also tried condition with my thief S/P but imo, sucks hard. Conditions don’t do enought damage because mobs have a huge pool of HP, and when you have huge HP you need huge power.
Infact conditions are a bit better in WvW where people have normal HP.

Hopefully, 1 healing guardian in a party of 10 will be a decent choice in raids.

However they don’t mention anything about changes that make pure roles more effective.

Also, why go all the way to Clerics? You know you take a more support guardian build with zerker gear so you still make decent dps.

I have already 2 char with zerker gear, isn’t this enought?
Why i have to make another char with zerk gear? I’m sick and tyred of this. I want a different build and be equal effective, not only the same pure dps.

Hopefully, they could add a Condition Damage, Precision, Healing Power gear. That would be awesome since the Power of Sinister only give you like 5-10% additional DPS.

I think is useless if they add gear without modifing the outgoing damage and effectiveness of buff/debuff/heals.

Satenia.9025:

Personally, I have a feeling that all these anti-zerker threads will create an overreaction on Anets side, resulting in absurd stats-combos being promoted for both higher fractals as well as raids (has been hinted at). As a result, fights will not only become overlong and unfun, but players will also be required to grind out multiple stats-sets (the account-bound ones say hi) or even grind for legendary armor in order to adjust.

That said, I expect the players who created the anti-zerker threads to be the first ones to cry. Will quote my post accordingly once it happens in a few weeks – stay tuned.

There is no need to prolong the fight for zerkers, they can stay the same as now, they have just to boost the condition damage and healing power, so people can make different builds and be effective.
Atm only the zerker is effective.

Miporin.3529:

Tried both, also tried condition with my thief S/P but imo, sucks hard. Conditions don’t do enought damage because mobs have a huge pool of HP, and when you have huge HP you need huge power.
Infact conditions are a bit better in WvW where people have normal HP.

Both what? So what’s your goal. Try every profession bad in condition and complain about the fact that they are bad in condition. You have 3 powerful condition profession in the game, why don’t you try those.

Miporin.3529:

I have already 2 char with zerker gear, isn’t this enought?
Why i have to make another char with zerk gear? I’m sick and tyred of this. I want a different build and be equal effective, not only the same pure dps.

Hopefully, they could add a Condition Damage, Precision, Healing Power gear. That would be awesome since the Power of Sinister only give you like 5-10% additional DPS.

I think is useless if they add gear without modifing the outgoing damage and effectiveness of buff/debuff/heals.

Why do you care that much about your gear. Gear doesn’t change how you play. Traits, skills and weapons are what is important in GW2. I can be a support character in zerker gear.

They don’t need to change how heal work. Heal work perfectly fine. Maybe fine tuning some HP ratio, but other than that you can already have a unkillable healer.

The think is that healer are not needed and won’t be only healer. If you can heal and support with protection, vigor, aegis, condi removal, reflection, that would be a good healer in GW2. But like I said, there is no content where it’s needed. Fractal 50 is the only place where a healer can smooth the run a little, at the expanse of a longer run. Make even harder content and you will start to see that normal player in zerker won’t be able to complete the content and will need more support and healing to stay alive.

Why would condition damage, precision, healing power be useless? It won’t be optimal, but losing 5% of your dps for more healing power don’t seem like a bad tradeoff.

Miporin.3529:

Atm only the zerker Bezerker, Assassins and Sinister is are effective optimal.

Fix it for you.

Another one of these threads. cool.
http://i.imgur.com/kFMwc28.jpg This will solve your kicking problem.

Everything is effective in this game, it is all viable. If what you want is that everything be optimal then guess what, that is impossible.

Something will always be more optimal than something else. And no, they don’t need to buff condition damage, that is the last thing they need to do. It is also overpowered in PvP and we don’t need it hitting for even more.

As far as the trinity goes, removing the trinity from a game was the best thing anet ever did. You can choose to play what you want, and most people choose to play damage. I will always choose damage. You’re trying to fill a trinity role that doesn’t exist. This games trinity is pretty simple. Damage, support, control. And ever character is expected to fill it a little bit. Maybe you lean towards the support or maybe you lean towards the control or maybe you lean towards the damage but if you’re dedicating yourself to one of the 3 things and don’t do anything else then you’ve made a bad build because it is contrary to the core game design.

Current gear sets that do the same damage as zerker:

1. Bezerker
2. Assassins
3. Sinister
4. Rabid
5. Valkyrie
6. Rampagers
7. Carrion

Gear sets that offer slight difference in damage but are still effective:

8. Knight’s
9. Cavalier’s
10. Dire
11. Celestial

So out of the ~20 gear sets in the game, 7 are optimal for various builds, and 11 are usable for speed clearing all PvE content.

If you move outside of PvE, to WvW and PvP the following gear sets also become optimal for various builds and roles:

12. Cleric
13. Magi
14. Givers
15. Nomad
16. Solider
17. Sentinel
18. Zealot’s

So out of the ~20 possible gear sets, 18 of them are used and viable for different aspects of the game… but yeah 99% of everything uses zerker gear i’m sure…

Miporin.3529:

There is no need to prolong the fight for zerkers, they can stay the same as now, they have just to boost the condition damage and healing power, so people can make different builds and be effective.
Atm only the zerker is effective.

As far as I’m aware, condition damage has been largely boosted and is on par with direct damage for various classes already (with there being meta-builds, etc.).

Tanking and healing stats on the other hand would still have a long way to go. This isn’t “just” a matter of boosting though – why would you prolong a fight through healing when you can dps instead? The only solution is to not make it optional, but a requirement instead.

As a result, for certain raids/fractals you’ll now mandatory need a healing or a tanking build, which means instead of “zerker only” it’ll be “clerics only”. And if we’re really really (un)lucky, they’ll manage to enforce a proper mixture of these stats, then you’ll have “meta group: 2x zerker, 2x clerics, 1x sinisters” instead of “meta group: all zerker”. I don’t really see how that changes anything for the better…

Satenia.9025:

Miporin.3529:

There is no need to prolong the fight for zerkers, they can stay the same as now, they have just to boost the condition damage and healing power, so people can make different builds and be effective.
Atm only the zerker is effective.

As far as I’m aware, condition damage has been largely boosted and is on par with direct damage for various classes already (with there being meta-builds, etc.).

Tanking and healing stats on the other hand would still have a long way to go. This isn’t “just” a matter of boosting though – why would you prolong a fight through healing when you can dps instead? The only solution is to not make it optional, but a requirement instead.

As a result, for certain raids/fractals you’ll now mandatory need a healing or a tanking build, which means instead of “zerker only” it’ll be “clerics only”. And if we’re really really (un)lucky, they’ll manage to enforce a proper mixture of these stats, then you’ll have “meta group: 2x zerker, 2x clerics, 1x sinisters” instead of “meta group: all zerker”. I don’t really see how that changes anything for the better…

Because people don’t know what the meta is in regards to GW2 PvE. Its a collection of community decided optimal builds built using outside knowledge.

Zerker isn’t the only option, its the only option(and that is not really necessarily true anymore either) that certain people who run the meta want. Don’t interact with us if you don’t want to participate in it. All of our parties are labeled as either zerker or meta or speedclear. Avoid those parties if you don’t subscribe to the same ideals.

Now that you’re not in our parties start your own parties, play how you want, run your own builds. Nobody is stopping you. But you should never ignore one or two of the soft trinity things in favor of just one. A pure healer or a pure tank have no place in this game because they’re not supposed to. The game has no true healing or tanking mechanics by design and choice. If I am running a dungeon I don’t want to go LFG Arah Path 1&2 need healer still And wait 30 minutes for a healer. I can jump in with anybody and they can wear whatever they want and run whatever they want and we’ll probably not fail.

Miporin.3529:

Tried both, also tried condition with my thief S/P but imo, sucks hard.

Yes Condi would suck hard when S/P Thief has purely power based attacks… I’m not sure you’re doing this right.

Thaddeus.4891:

Miporin.3529:

Atm only the zerker Berserker, Assassins and Sinister is are effective optimal.

Fix it for you.

Fixed it for you sorry had to correct the spelling couldn’t resist.

Anyways, what Thad said in this thread is totally true. I have 3 solid build options for Ranger, are they all optimal, naw, are different ones optimal in different situations, yes. One is the typical meta Sword/Axe + LB with Berserker Stat gear, it’s solid in pretty much any situation if you play well enough but that sword auto can be nasty. So my other one is GS/GS or GS+ Sword/Axe, I love it’s defensive benefits, especially the Axe Offhand reflect for when it’s needed, it’s nice.

The last is the Condi build with either Sinister or Rabid stats, of course going full glass stats is best but Rabid isn’t much of a loss. This uses different utilities and Axe/Torch with the possible option of Axe offhand in the second set if you need that reflect though you lose damage potential. This is actually better DPS in a standard fight, it just loses dramatically when you’re going against a structure (god I’d love if they changed that, let me bleed that door! )

So that’s just my Ranger. I also have a Power Build(Berserker stat) Engi as well as a Sinister stat Engi. I have a Phalanx Strength focused Warrior and a Condition Sword/Sword + LB warrior. And I wear Assassin on my mesmer to really ramp up the effectiveness of my reflects, not optimal in all situations but hey it’s not bad and when I get into those heavy reflect situations it’s nice to crit every returning shot.

Point being, there are options out there. Some better than others. Berserker is a catch all but it’s actually not optimal in every situation. Glass will always be better than not glass if they keep to the current PVE design where it’s all about active defenses, but that’s with the stipulation that you play perfectly. As anecdotal evidence to the contrary, I love a good Clerics Guard in a fractal because it makes it way easier, it’s not optimal unless you have people dying to things other than one shots, but that happens in fractals a lot with less than perfect players, so I see a use there that I feel is worthwhile.

Overall I don’t see much problem with the current situation. If I had any critiques/changes I’d make it’d be this:

• Increase Bleed damage by 15%
• Decrease Burn damage by 15%
• Increase Amplified Wrath to 30%

This would balance out the condi builds a bit, the strong ones right now are all the ones with plenty of burn damage, however only guardian is completely reliant on it, Engi and ranger both have hefty bleed damage as well so they’d stay pretty stable with the shift, though ranger may have a pretty amazing burst with their Elite.

So that’d handle Condi builds pretty well I think. Warrior would go from mediocre to pretty good, and I imagine some other more bleed intensive builds might see more use.

Then, the only other thing I’d hope for is some faster more intense content. If we had to dodge/block every 3s with little margin for error not nearly as many people would have the ability to run glass stats, they’d want that defensive bonus to survive the hits and they’d want that extra supporty healing play style to bounce them back up for when they make another mistake. Only those playing at a near perfect level would be capable of rotating their defenses in such a way that they could survive. Basically I want it to be such that you have to be able to solo the current iteration of Lupi without any reflects if you want to run full glass

I think that’d make people think twice and there’d be an optimized Meta that not many play but can attempt, and a more reasonable normal Meta that people adopt including some level of tankiness and supportive natures. There’d be a few more minor details of balance that should come along with that but yeah…

My Berserker(Warrior) using pure Carrion Longsword+Torch/Longbow build was doing pretty well.

10k bleed Damage from Pin Down alone, and nearly 30k HP.