"you don't need ascended to play the game"

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: darkace.8925

darkace.8925

This comes up a lot in response to the opposition towards ascended gear, and I think it’s time we discuss it in earnest.

It’s true there is nothing in the game today that function as a gear check requiring full ascended gear (outside high-level Fractals, but I don’t think that counts). But the game is not frozen in time. New content will be added to the game; and this content will either be on or below the same difficulty level as what’s already in the game or it will be more difficult.

There are many players who already feel the difficulty of most (if not all) of the content in this game is too low. Ascended gear will further trivialize much of this content, particularly content in lower-level zones. This is the best case scenario with regards to ascended gear, and it’s not really that great of an option. But it’s better than the alternative.

If new content is made more difficult to account for ascended gear then players are suddenly being…“forced” is too strong of a word, so we’ll go with “pressured” to upgrade. This obviously doesn’t fall in line with the original premise of progression being horizontal or players not being forced to run gear treadmills. This scenario is bad.

The worst case scenario is a slippery-slope argument, combining harder and harder difficulty with more and more new tiers of gear. The promise that this wouldn’t happen is exactly the reason many players got involved with this game in the first place. But as this argument is speculative, we’ll set it aside (for now).

There are other points that might be raised against the “you don’t need ascended gar to play the game” argument; such as WvW one-on-ones or small skirmishes (not full-scale zerg vs zerg battles) or elitists refusing to allow players in dungeon parties unless they’re donning full ascended gear, but I’ll let you guys decide whether or not these are worth including in the discussion.

Now all of these concerns would evaporate instantly if ascended gear was easy to obtain. But making ascended gear easy to obtain defeats the purpose of including it in the first place. It was implemented to give a specific portion of the player base something to work towards. As such, it has intentionally been made a time-consuming endeavor. So giving ascended gear out freely would essentially make it meaningless.

So what do you guys think? Does the prospect of getting better gear without appropriately challenging content sit well with you? Or would you rather the content scale in challenge as gear gets better and better? The former means the “you don’t need ascended gear to play the game” argument remains a valid, but it comes with the risk that the game might stagnant for anyone looking to be challenged; and the latter utterly destroys the “you don’t need it…” argument.

Either way, I feel that particular response to those who are against ascended gear is a shaky one. So I ask those of you who have used the “you don’t need ascended gear to play the game” argument where I’m wrong in my assessment. After reading my post, are you going to stand pat with the “you don’t need ascended gear to play the game” attitude? Or do you now recognize why the addition of ascended gear might be cause for concern?

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Happyfool.8951

Happyfool.8951

I posted this in another thread but the premise is the same:

Have you seen the upcoming changes to Teq? It promotes teamwork and coordination. I am guessing that they going for that in the “difficulty” department, instead of just bumping up numbers. And in the off chance that they do bump up numbers. I imagine the experience would to be the same as wearing rares in an exotic world. Bit of a challenge, but still doable.

We all do as we must to make our way in this world and unfortunately,
we have to do things others may qualify as “evil”.
~Krunch Bloodrage, Looking For Group

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: darkace.8925

darkace.8925

Happyfool.8951:

I posted this in another thread but the premise is the same:

Have you seen the upcoming changes to Teq? It promotes teamwork and coordination. I am guessing that they going for that in the “difficulty” department, instead of just bumping up numbers. And in the off chance that they do bump up numbers. I imagine the experience would to be the same as wearing rares in an exotic world. Bit of a challenge, but still doable.

If I’m not mistaken, Colin said in response to concerns about gathering 80 players to do the event that fewer skilled and very well-equipped players could manage. What he considers “very-well equipped” remains to be seen, though.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: dcypher.2590

dcypher.2590

darkace.8925:
Happyfool.8951:

I posted this in another thread but the premise is the same:

Have you seen the upcoming changes to Teq? It promotes teamwork and coordination. I am guessing that they going for that in the “difficulty” department, instead of just bumping up numbers. And in the off chance that they do bump up numbers. I imagine the experience would to be the same as wearing rares in an exotic world. Bit of a challenge, but still doable.

If I’m not mistaken, Colin said in response to concerns about gathering 80 players to do the event that fewer skilled and very well-equipped players could manage. What he considers “very-well equipped” remains to be seen, though.

sounds like a gear check to me

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTSxIGvCRBg

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: MikaHR.1978

MikaHR.1978

darkace.8925:

snip

I would agree that it was introdused because of small portion of playerbase who whined about it if it was actually implemented as such.

Since most of them got ascended weapons in first few hours, and most of them have legendary which was an auto-upgrade and even has “new functionality” to never have to grind for same ascended weapon of different stats so they still “dont have anything to work for”, it can be called – epic fail?

Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Raine.1394

Raine.1394

The OP is referring to the conventional argument from insignificance. The argument is a defense of Anet’s embrace of vertical progression and a tacit denial of a gear grind by way of the introduction of ascended gear. If it is insignificant and you don’t really need it then there can’t be a meaningful gear grind behind it.

Of course, this argument is disingenuous and simply betrays a lack of understanding around the game design element we know as vertical progression. Because VP is a process where the power level of the game increases periodically and continuously over time (you only need to understand the words to understand the concept), it makes no sense whatsoever to argue about whether power level 2 is required to function in a power level 1 world. Vertical progression doesn’t progress by stopping and it’s self-evident that at some point the power level difference will matter incontrovertibly across the game, perhaps with the exception of sPvP. The important take away is that since we are talking about the power level of the game, it is non-optional that you follow the path of the power curve if you want to play the game long-term.

Saying that “you don’t need ascended to play the game” amounts to nothing more than an irrational defense of Anet and an indication that the person saying it knows very little about the theoretical aspects of game design.

(edited by Raine.1394)

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Shelledfade.6435

Shelledfade.6435

OH please you don’t need ascended to play…

EVeryone plays MMO’S for different reasons, some play to go end-game all the way. For those people, this current system is trash.

gambling for precursors is bad game design and grinding 27 different ways to china to craft a ascended weapon is not cool.

We should have been able to craft precursors from day 1. This game makes me mad.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: wintermute.4096

wintermute.4096

You didn’t need full exotics either to complete cof1 either, but we all know how that went…

Also, it unneccessarily kills both alts and build diversity (not like we had any meaningful in the first place).

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Draco.2806

Draco.2806

Actually it’s rather simple.

If we “Don’t need” ascended gear because its stats are only marginally better, then… IT SHOULDN’T BE MARGINALLY BETTER… IT SHOULD BE THE SAME!

Sorry for shouting, but how more obvious could it be? Just because you try to jam your vertical progression into 50 points instead of 500 doesn’t make it go away, it just makes the upgrade be incredibly less satisfying.

The whole excuse of introducing something to work on – oh hey, WORK, that’s just what I want when I sit down to PLAY something – along the path to Legendaries is absurd. To get the obvious out of the way, why do Legendaries require so much grind to get to? Just so that very very very very few players have them? Why!? But, going with that, if you introduce something along that path – rares, exotic, ascended, colorful skins, whatever – then you’re not helping along. You’re just delaying the process even further.

So basically it’s just plain grind. Like in every other MMO. Even though the main reason people bought the game is NOT to have to do all this. Lies, lies, lies, kitten ed lies!

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Jzaku.9765

Jzaku.9765

Jesus Christ this pants-on-head kittened argument

Are ascended weapons part of the game???

Would the process of getting them not constitute me “playing the game”???

People are telling me that I don’t need to play the game to play the game???

This is the most flagrantly dumb response in the same vein as telling people to “just quit”. If you are one of the people perpetrating this ridiculous stance REALIZE that the minute anet does something YOU don’t like (assuming you aren’t some kind of terrifying fanboy that adores anything anet throws at you) you’re in no way going to “just quit”.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: ophidic.1279

ophidic.1279

You don’t need ascended gear to play, you need to know how to kite and dodge and think ahead. That’s more powerful than any ascended.

Elyl Jrend

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: GOSU.9574

GOSU.9574

It is written in stone now, why continue to debate what will NOT be changed?

Anet want’s a gear treadmill, Anet installs a gear treadmill. If you don’t like it, don’t get on the treadmill.

Hey dude you are walking into a wall.

smack..Wut?…smack…smack…

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

dcypher.2590:
darkace.8925:
Happyfool.8951:

I posted this in another thread but the premise is the same:

Have you seen the upcoming changes to Teq? It promotes teamwork and coordination. I am guessing that they going for that in the “difficulty” department, instead of just bumping up numbers. And in the off chance that they do bump up numbers. I imagine the experience would to be the same as wearing rares in an exotic world. Bit of a challenge, but still doable.

If I’m not mistaken, Colin said in response to concerns about gathering 80 players to do the event that fewer skilled and very well-equipped players could manage. What he considers “very-well equipped” remains to be seen, though.

sounds like a gear check to me

Could be. “Check, do they have gear on? Good, okay, they can go in. Hey! You! No pants, no dragon champion. Stop whining about being a norn and me oppressing your culture, you want in, you get pants.”

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

ophidic.1279:

You don’t need ascended gear to play, you need to know how to kite and dodge and think ahead. That’s more powerful than any ascended.

Well, unless there’s Agony involved which lands on everyone in an area (Jade Maw). In which case, maybe you need one piece with AR on.

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Melchior.2135

Melchior.2135

I was thinking a bit more about Ascended Crap, and I think I pinned down my real objection.

I don’t trust the balance team enough to invest heavily in any build.

For my Elementalist, not only have the Stat Types that I’d want changed several times, but whole weapon sets have risen to and fallen from viability in different areas of play. Right now, my dungeon teams seem to appreciate my S/D offensive buffing, but who knows if that will still work next patch? If I pay out for an Ascended Scepter, am I going to be regretting that it wasn’t a Staff or a second Dagger? Or that I chose Berserker’s stats, when they get around to making Elementalist Condition Damage worthwhile and want Rampagers or whatever?

A year into the game, the class structure landscape is still FAR too volatile for this kind of time investment. At least, in my personal favorite classes.

Former Guild Wars 2 fan. RIP, ArenaNet’s integrity.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: TheDaiBish.9735

TheDaiBish.9735

Jzaku.9765:

Jesus Christ this pants-on-head kittened argument

Are ascended weapons part of the game???

Would the process of getting them not constitute me “playing the game”???

People are telling me that I don’t need to play the game to play the game???

“You don’t need Ascended gear” is exactly the same argument as:

  • “You don’t need to craft”
  • “You don’t need to play SPvP”
  • “You don’t need to do the Personal Story”

That is, if you choose not to do them, for whatever reason, that’s your choice. At the end of the day, the time you spend in games is what you make it. No content is gated to you by not having Ascended weapons. Ascended weapons aren’t needed in any way, shape or form (unless you want to get higher than level 80 in Fractals). Making them is entirely your choice.

Telling you to not make Ascended weapons if you don’t want to isn’t remotely like telling you not to play the game. It’s telling you to play the game how you want to. After all, Ascended weapons are only a single part of the game.

Life is a journey.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Blaine Tog.8304

Blaine Tog.8304

“You don’t need Ascended gear to play the game” is another way of saying “You don’t need to have the most effective chance of success to play the game.” It’s true, but it’s also rather specious. You could, in theory, get by with just blue gear, or even with no gear at all (go Elementalist and use Conjure Weapons or Engineer and use kits, or even make do with just the paltry damage from utilities). But the game wasn’t designed with you in mind and wasn’t balanced off the assumption that players were going to be flagrantly ignoring the top-level gear. Success will be much, much harder for you. Certain tasks may even be impossible, given the amount of invisible and unpredictable damage that flies around in this game.

So, the dilemma posed by the OP still holds. Either the game stays akittens current difficulty level and Ascended gear makes it too easy, or new content is added that is intended to be accomplished only by players with Ascended gear. The former is terrible for retention because players typically won’t bother staying around when everything’s a cakewalk, and the latter is terrible for retention because you’re locking out casual players (or even dedicated players with alts) from content.

I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

Honestly, I can count the number of RPGs I’ve needed the best possible stats or gear with me to beat it on one hand.

Post-game content? Mmm, I’d need two hands but the penultimate bonus boss in FF12 was just kind of a long grind.

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: danbuter.2314

danbuter.2314

You will need Ascended if you WvW. Unless you just like getting curbstomped and giving other players easy loot.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

Happyfool.8951:

I posted this in another thread but the premise is the same:

Have you seen the upcoming changes to Teq? It promotes teamwork and coordination. I am guessing that they going for that in the “difficulty” department, instead of just bumping up numbers. And in the off chance that they do bump up numbers. I imagine the experience would to be the same as wearing rares in an exotic world. Bit of a challenge, but still doable.

Mostly, due to timer, it promotes pure DPS. Ascended significantly help there.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Carzor Stelatis.9435

Carzor Stelatis.9435

or elitists refusing to allow players in dungeon parties unless they’re donning full ascended gear, but I’ll let you guys decide whether or not these are worth including in the discussion.

Solution: just lie. Keep pingcodes for Ascended gear handy and put them into chat when these idiots demand you ping your gear.

You will need Ascended if you WvW. Unless you just like getting curbstomped and giving other players easy loot.

In 1v1s possibly, but if you’re in a 40 vs 40 zerg fight it won’t really make a difference if you have one or two pieces of 9% Ascended bonus missing.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

Astralporing.1957:

Mostly, due to timer, it promotes pure DPS. Ascended significantly help there.

Ah, I don’t know . . . about the promoting pure DPS. I mean, I’m not going to argue Ascended won’t make that number go up.

But on the other hand? I think if the players wanted to try for pure DPS and just all leap on him we’d see failures and proclamations it’s impossible because that approach doesn’t work. I mean, I’ve seen Grenth fail like that, and the “let’s zerg it” lemmings leave THEN the event succeeds because we weren’t getting a minefield of corpses people kept trying to res.

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Fungalfoot.7213

Fungalfoot.7213

I just want to know where the cosmetic progression I was promised is.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Dante.1508

Dante.1508

No but it helps a lot. which is why people are so unhappy with how they are made.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Wukunlin.8461

Wukunlin.8461

I just don’t understand the “There is nothing wrong with it because you don’t need to use it” argument. It is like saying that apple on the floor cannot possibly be rotten because you don’t have to eat it.

Oceanic [LOD]

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Chickenshoes.6250

Chickenshoes.6250

You could do most of the PvE content in this game naked.

I wouldn’t worry as much about it as you are if I were you.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Chickenshoes.6250

Chickenshoes.6250

Wukunlin.8461:

I just don’t understand the “There is nothing wrong with it because you don’t need to use it” argument. It is like saying that apple on the floor cannot possibly be rotten because you don’t have to eat it.

More like it doesn’t matter if it’s rotten because you don’t have to eat it.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Wukunlin.8461

Wukunlin.8461

yeah just let it rot

Oceanic [LOD]

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: SiNoS.2147

SiNoS.2147

Wukunlin.8461:

I just don’t understand the “There is nothing wrong with it because you don’t need to use it” argument. It is like saying that apple on the floor cannot possibly be rotten because you don’t have to eat it.

Honestly its just a twist on the normal argument you see in other mmo’s refering to top end gear. What it really comes down to is they want items that have stats no one else can get without stupid amounts of grinding because frankly that very hard/rare skin they have is not enough for there well you get the idea.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: dalendria.3762

dalendria.3762

MikaHR.1978:
darkace.8925:

snip

I would agree that it was introdused because of small portion of playerbase who whined about it if it was actually implemented as such.

Since most of them got ascended weapons in first few hours,

Wait. What?

Are you saying that people have Ascended weapons already? I thought the patch for these just came out today. I have not even played the game tonight. Just downloaded the patch about a hour ago.

Are you serious? People have these weapons already?

Can you feel it? HOT HOT HOT

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Shelledfade.6435

Shelledfade.6435

dalendria.3762:
MikaHR.1978:
darkace.8925:

snip

I would agree that it was introdused because of small portion of playerbase who whined about it if it was actually implemented as such.

Since most of them got ascended weapons in first few hours,

Wait. What?

Are you saying that people have Ascended weapons already? I thought the patch for these just came out today. I have not even played the game tonight. Just downloaded the patch about a hour ago.

Are you serious? People have these weapons already?

Probably people who can control the TP with the amount of money they have already crafted them.

Maybe.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: SiNoS.2147

SiNoS.2147

dalendria.3762:
MikaHR.1978:
darkace.8925:

snip

I would agree that it was introdused because of small portion of playerbase who whined about it if it was actually implemented as such.

Since most of them got ascended weapons in first few hours,

Wait. What?

Are you saying that people have Ascended weapons already? I thought the patch for these just came out today. I have not even played the game tonight. Just downloaded the patch about a hour ago.

Are you serious? People have these weapons already?

They are drops as well as craft. Go out and grind champs till your blue then just a bit more and you two can have one by tomorrow morning.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Moka.9641

Moka.9641

The stat boost is not even necessary. Why not just make them look better? I thought that we would have some kind of aesthetic progression. Ascended gear would be somewhat aesthetically between Legendary and Exotics.
Legendary (Looking absolutely Epic, but the current ones could get aesthetic upgrades) >> Ascended (Very good looking with special effects, but the current ones are kinda dissapointing) >> Exotics (Good looking). Meh, it’s a matter of taste in the end.

[AW]- The Holy Engineer

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: SiNoS.2147

SiNoS.2147

Shelledfade.6435:
dalendria.3762:
MikaHR.1978:
darkace.8925:

snip

I would agree that it was introdused because of small portion of playerbase who whined about it if it was actually implemented as such.

Since most of them got ascended weapons in first few hours,

Wait. What?

Are you saying that people have Ascended weapons already? I thought the patch for these just came out today. I have not even played the game tonight. Just downloaded the patch about a hour ago.

Are you serious? People have these weapons already?

Probably people who can control the TP with the amount of money they have already crafted them.

Maybe.

Would be nearly impossible to craft it already i would think due to time restraints on crafting some of the account bound stuff. The ones i know of got them as champ drops.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

Draco.2806:

To get the obvious out of the way, why do Legendaries require so much grind to get to? Just so that very very very very few players have them? Why!?

Because if they were easy to get then everyone would have one and then they wouldn’t be Legendary they would be COMMON!!

Oh yea, there’s a stone over there that just spits out Legendary swords, you just got to wait your turn. Too many people are to use to the Monty Hall rewards in other games where everyone gets everything they want if they just raid enough. That’s why the darn bar is set so high, so your Legendary will be fairly unique in this world and becomes a status symbol. A wielded title showing your hard work.

Just be happy that Legendary weapons aren’t personified.

Attachments:

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

(edited by Behellagh.1468)

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

Shelledfade.6435:
dalendria.3762:
MikaHR.1978:
darkace.8925:

snip

I would agree that it was introdused because of small portion of playerbase who whined about it if it was actually implemented as such.

Since most of them got ascended weapons in first few hours,

Wait. What?

Are you saying that people have Ascended weapons already? I thought the patch for these just came out today. I have not even played the game tonight. Just downloaded the patch about a hour ago.

Are you serious? People have these weapons already?

Probably people who can control the TP with the amount of money they have already crafted them.

Maybe.

No, people who got lucky off Champion loot bags. Seriously, as in I saw two people with them today. Occam’s Weapon Chest, for one. Remember, there’s a slim chance they come out of them. Like Precursors can, and have, but are unlikely to on any single click. So cheer for the lucky ones.

There’s not really a way to BUY your way to one with the time-gating on it.

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: RebelYell.7132

RebelYell.7132

ophidic.1279:

You don’t need ascended gear to play, you need to know how to kite and dodge and think ahead. That’s more powerful than any ascended.

Such skills don’t exist in a binary state. Maybe someone is great at rotating their cooldowns to kite, and not so good at reading boss tells and managing their endurance. Maybe someone knows the tells, but only reacts in time to 50% of the attacks. That’s where gear upgrades come in.

If ascended gear lets me take a boss down 10% faster, that’s a significant amount of time in which I can’t make mistakes. Consistency isn’t easy.

Take a game that’s pure skill, like The Touhou Project or DoDonPachi or Quake. Nothing in those games has an attack that’s impossible to dodge. However, you have to keep doing it. Now, double your damage. That cuts the amount of things you have to dodge in half.

Removing the elitism of things like CoFp1 from the picture, let’s just look at normal dungeon content. If the party wipes, since there’s no tanks or healers, who’s going to get looked at first? Lacking any fight-specific mechanics to fail akittens going to be the first guy who was downed. Any upgrade that prevents me from being “that guy” is highly desirable. Not, technically speaking, necessary, but the problem here is that the English language lacks a word between “desirable” and “necessary” that cannot be argued against so strongly as it is on these forums.

User was infracted for being awesome.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

“you don’t need ascended to play the game”
“you don’t need a good job in real life, you can stay a janitor” … sorry I don’t want to be a janitor.
same mentality applies to games/anything in general, the want to be better.

Thief Nerf/Change Wish List. Advice List
Join the TEEFs!

(edited by Zero Day.2594)

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Leo Paul.1659

Leo Paul.1659

At this point, I feel like I’m in a dollar auction (zero-sum game). To quit or not to quit, which one will minimize my losses.

Queen Of The Moors (Blackgate)
Deaths Fear [Fear] / The Hardcore Caravan [HC]
Forum Warrior: Black Belt in Ninja Edits

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Wukunlin.8461

Wukunlin.8461

Zero Day.2594:

“you don’t need ascended to play the game”
“you don’t a good job in real life, you can stay a janitor” … sorry I don’t want to be a janitor.
same mentality applies to games/anything in general, the want to be better.

oh noes, get ready for the swarms of YOU CAN’T COMPARE GAME TO RL AHFEJAHJEWAR;LWAFE dog piling on you

Oceanic [LOD]

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

RebelYell.7132:
ophidic.1279:

You don’t need ascended gear to play, you need to know how to kite and dodge and think ahead. That’s more powerful than any ascended.

Such skills don’t exist in a binary state. Maybe someone is great at rotating their cooldowns to kite, and not so good at reading boss tells and managing their endurance. Maybe someone knows the tells, but only reacts in time to 50% of the attacks. That’s where gear upgrades come in.

If ascended gear lets me take a boss down 10% faster, that’s a significant amount of time in which I can’t make mistakes. Consistency isn’t easy.

Take a game that’s pure skill, like The Touhou Project or DoDonPachi or Quake. Nothing in those games has an attack that’s impossible to dodge. However, you have to keep doing it. Now, double your damage. That cuts the amount of things you have to dodge in half.

Whoa. Quake? “Nothing in that game has an attack that’s impossible to dodge.” I’m relatively sure that’s correct in the basest of terms but it’s also more accurate to say “a single attack might be able to be dodged, but it becomes progressively harder to stay alive with certain situations”. Dodging into a corner, or against an element which stops you, for instance, is likely to stop you from dodging the next hit successfully.

(Also, if you were in the water and someone decided to drop the Lightning Gun attack while also in the water? No, you can’t dodge that. You can only take damage and maybe live. I used to do that often enough.)

Much the same as dodging anywhere – positional awareness is crucial but it also can be hampered by a few things. And there are situations where “you could have dodged that” becomes “if you hadn’t been in that exact spot you could have dodged it”. I remember games which would sometimes “lead” you in between two attacks to nail you with a third right up the “safe” spot you were thinking was there.

You’re correct in the point of “if I can kill it faster, that’s less time I need to dodge”. It’s often a war of attrition to have a skill-based combat. How long can you keep up the peak of skill to kill it without dying? I’ve seen some utterly insane displays of skillful combat (I’ll find one to link you if you really want) where the goal was to go in with the least advantage possible and still win.

Guild Wars 2 tried to hit that point, but the gear and stats you can build on are more like a safety net so your failures are not an automatic “walk back from the waypoint”. They’re there to (offensively) shave the time you have to dodge or otherwise run the encounter, or (defensively) survive hits you weren’t able to dodge.

If you’re good enough, in theory, you can make it without anything other than a white weapon your level. In practice, that probably happens a lot less than anyone arguing it’s possible would think. On the other hand? Entirely plausible to do it in less than exotics, which renders a decent example of “it’s not needed to have Ascended”.

It does make things easier.

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Wukunlin.8461:

oh noes, get ready for the swarms of YOU CAN’T COMPARE GAME TO RL AHFEJAHJEWAR;LWAFE dog piling on you

Eh… I don’t know, the only thing i’m trying to draw from what i’m saying is

DON’T YOU WANT TO DO THE BEST YOU CAN?

not saying let’s be TRY HARDS, but i mean…

Thief Nerf/Change Wish List. Advice List
Join the TEEFs!

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

Wukunlin.8461:
Zero Day.2594:

“you don’t need ascended to play the game”
“you don’t a good job in real life, you can stay a janitor” … sorry I don’t want to be a janitor.
same mentality applies to games/anything in general, the want to be better.

oh noes, get ready for the swarms of YOU CAN’T COMPARE GAME TO RL AHFEJAHJEWAR;LWAFE dog piling on you

I really don’t like people pulling RL into the argument, if only because inevitably there’s flaws in the analogies and it becomes a moot point. If the argument stays where the argument actually is concerned about in the first place, then it’s a better discussion.

I mean, it’s the old thing with a form of “if all your friends jumped off a bridge would you?” is used. Similarly extremely flawed for an argument. Keep off the loaded questions and this actually might get something useful talked about.

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I really don’t like people pulling RL into the argument, if only because inevitably there’s flaws in the analogies and it becomes a moot point.

don’t know if you read the post above but let me ask again

DON’T YOU WANT TO DO THE BEST YOU CAN?

(why did you switch from whites to blues, from blues to greens, from greens to yellows…)
I guess the counter arguement is, “i want to just have fun” – cool standing around? being bottom or doing bad in pvp (or anything else), and you’re just going to accept that, not going to try to improve? why does anyone progress or try to go further with anything (really anything)?
o well either too deep or not a lot will understand….

Thief Nerf/Change Wish List. Advice List
Join the TEEFs!

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Emmet.2943

Emmet.2943

I don’t care about ascended and never will I come to this game to try and have fun if im not having fun i log off. Grinding ascended gear is not fun so i will not be getting anything that’s ascended unless this changes same goes for legendaries and precursors.

You don’t need bigger, harder hitting, larger health pooled bosses to have a challenging encounter you need good mechanics that make players think and move while also fighting a boss that isn’t a crazy damage sponge but also doesn’t drop in less than a minute. While i don’t like mentioning other mmos on mmo forums and ff14’s launch has been awful their dungeons/primals are some of the best mechanic wise encounters i have had the pleasure of taking part in. I think Anet should look at a few of the 30+ dungeons/primals/guildhests in ff14 along with other mmos with bosses known to have great mechanics. If anet can produce future content with great mechanics, like past content has shown they can(gauntlet, flame and frost dungeon), I doubt we will ever see a need for ascended gear in PvE. Although their will always be the group of people who want the maximum amount of stats out of their gear and if they want that so the game feels easier to them then so be it their loss or gain however you see it.

kitten i can find myself having more fun facing a boss naked at lvl 5 in dark souls than when im running around in super powerful gear at a good level and that’s because of good mechanics.

(edited by Emmet.2943)

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

Zero Day.2594:
Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I really don’t like people pulling RL into the argument, if only because inevitably there’s flaws in the analogies and it becomes a moot point.

don’t know if you read the post above but let me ask again

DON’T YOU WANT TO DO THE BEST YOU CAN?

(why did you switch from whites to blues, from blues to greens, from greens to yellows…)
I guess the counter arguement is, “i want to just have fun” – cool standing around? being bottom or doing bad in pvp (or anything else), and you’re just going to accept that, not going to try to improve? why does anyone progress or try to go further with anything (really anything)?
o well either too deep or not a lot will understand….

Of course I didn’t read the post ahead of mine. I was typing mine out and thinking about what I was saying way too much, so yours was posted ahead of mine.

Let me run down the list.

- I suck, like, really really suck, at PvP. But as the gear is standardized, who cares what gear I have?

- I could WvW but as mentioned just above: I suck at PvP. So I mostly run with groups, which could mean anything from four or five people to “Da Zerg”. In such cases, my individual use goes anywhere from “less important” to “not really an impact”. Don’t see why I should bust my knees out rushing for Ascended or Legendary (before Ascended existed).

- Do I want to improve? Sure, I guess, but my problem is more based in my personal skill and not gear. It’s also that I play a ranger, and we all know rangers suck. (Disclaimers: Some rangers suck less than others, naturally, due to having really skilled players behind them.)

So, I mean, sure I could be doing better if I tried real hard and worked my carpal tunnels to the breaking point getting my reflexes and skill timing down JUST SO . . . but that’s even LESS appealing than the Ascended/Legendary search.

If I want to look cool fighting things with a sword the size of a ship rudder I’ll boot up Monster Hunter again.

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

“- Do I want to improve? Sure, I guess, but my problem is more based in my personal skill and not gear.” – Enough said.
The bottle neck in your case is personal skill, which, almost always, doesn’t have a limit… :P and you did say sure, which made it easy….
Getting better gear is improving, an artificial limit.

No one is saying to break your back trying hard… but over the span of a game or anything, don’t you naturally improve? Even though you may not be trying to improve consciously, you’re still retaining and bettering the skills you already have via practicing. ANYWAYS… way off topic….

More so, my question may justify why some people may want to get ascended gear.

Thief Nerf/Change Wish List. Advice List
Join the TEEFs!

(edited by Zero Day.2594)

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Scourge.4317:
danbuter.2314:

You will need Ascended if you WvW. Unless you just like getting curbstomped and giving other players easy loot.

Well that’s just a flat out lie. Rare and exotics will do just fine.

Really, greens will do….
no wait… blues (10% stat increase?pfft shrugs off)…
heck why get blues when whites are just as good as blues ….
meh might as well run around naked…

i honestly think you can troll people so hard with
“you don’t need to….”

“you don’t need to play the game”
“you don’t need to level”
“you don’t need to get items”
“you don’t need to complete the game”
“you don’t need to …”

quite frankly, “you don’t need to” do anything at all, game or life.

Thief Nerf/Change Wish List. Advice List
Join the TEEFs!

(edited by Zero Day.2594)

"you don't need ascended to play the game"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Makai.3429

Makai.3429

Melchior.2135:

I was thinking a bit more about Ascended Crap, and I think I pinned down my real objection.

I don’t trust the balance team enough to invest heavily in any build.

For my Elementalist, not only have the Stat Types that I’d want changed several times, but whole weapon sets have risen to and fallen from viability in different areas of play. Right now, my dungeon teams seem to appreciate my S/D offensive buffing, but who knows if that will still work next patch? If I pay out for an Ascended Scepter, am I going to be regretting that it wasn’t a Staff or a second Dagger? Or that I chose Berserker’s stats, when they get around to making Elementalist Condition Damage worthwhile and want Rampagers or whatever?

A year into the game, the class structure landscape is still FAR too volatile for this kind of time investment. At least, in my personal favorite classes.

This x100.

The situation gets even worse when you consider how weapons are tied to skills. If a favored GW1 skill was nerfed or modified in a way that would completely change your build, you ended up losing a skill point and maybe some platinum. Now we run the risk of losing lots of money, effort, and gold. Remember all the complaint posts from Dreamer Rangers after Shortbow was nerfed? It’s kind of funny considering every skill nerf is because of PvP: a format that won’t even employ Ascended gear.

Also remember that professions will have access to more weapons before the year’s end. How much do you want to bet these new skills will be more powerful as a means to entice players to stick around?

Proud disabled gamer. Not everyone has the capacity to git gud.

Back To Top