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Posted by: Lithril Ashwalker.6230

Lithril Ashwalker.6230

Keep this on topic guys…trying to get constructive criticism for some ideas i posted, not arguing about gear in itself. just a solution to make it where all styels of play and gear is viable…primarily the random tile set idea.

OP

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Posted by: soapingwet.4810

soapingwet.4810

It’s hard to fix something they don’t even WANT to admit is a huge problem. The entire combat system is a big step backwards and I’m afraid they won’t be listening to any suggestions or making changes until the boat sinks to the bottom.

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

tl;dr the rest of it, but might as well re-hash some of the stuff that’s been around the forums:

Caveat: People will always go toward the most optimal gear. For good dodgers who are familiar with dungeons, that will be Berserker. Or PVT if they’re running world bosses.

First and foremost, dungeons and encounters need to be more interesting.
Make it so that mobs don’t tether, thus ignoring them leads to more damage than can be tolerated.
Make mobs that attack more frequently or otherwise require more damage mitigation.
In most situations, include more than just a boss in boss encounters. Monolithic bosses are most prone to zergstack, which leads to zerk for minimum boss existence time. Mixing range and melee units in an encounter demands that players stay on the move and mitigate multiple damage sources at one time.

Of course, while that invokes more active, interesting gameplay, it does feel like a slap in the face to those who feel comfortable running an optimal damage config. And the philosophy isn’t incorrect: “Dead DPS don’t.” While that normally means dead characters don’t do damage, it also applies to enemies. Best enemy is a dead enemy, best defense is a good offense, etc.

And buff condition by increasing the cap on elite/champ/legendary grade enemies. It mostly applies to bleeding, but in groups, bleeding damage gets a huge nerf by that system alone.

As far as the original idea, I think it’d be great overall, conditionally. Random pieces would have to be diverse enough to encompass several different kinds of mechanics and environmental triggers without getting too repetitive. Rewards for completion would have to be comparable or better (greater and/or more unique) than dungeons or fractals.

And that’s part of what that comes down to, rewards. It’s a natural evolution, in many cases:
Players want loot.
Players want loot quickly.
Players find optimal paths to quick loot.
Fastest kill times lead to fastest loot.
Berserker leads to the fastest kill times due to damage calculations.
(Corollary: Defensive stats are ‘wasted’ stats if you don’t plan on getting hit.)
Zerker gears seek other zerker gears for zerker groups.
Zerker meta evolved.

And, thing is, I’m well past the point of qq’ing or being judgmental about it. Zerkers gonna zerk, and some of ‘em might even be nice about it. The gear itself doesn’t need breaking or tweaking or working around.

We just need more engaging encounters.

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: Dalanor.5387

Dalanor.5387

@OP

Why you blame zerker gear, when you have problems with encounter design and AI?
Other sets do their job and makes you immortal, so they are viable. Slower, but viable. How many times we have to link these videos to fight against inexperienced players ignorance?

@Rauderi
Bleed cap increasing alone not necessary solves the problem. The bursty nature of power builds will still reach better killing times and have great synergy with damage modifiers, vulnerability and might.
If you balance an encounter around unavoidable environment damage to force players to wear defensive gear is not the solution either. Otherwise it can be negated in a lot of ways. Imagine it from the other side. Make a boss with such a huge regen that even if you use poison you need a skrittload of damage to outdamage it. And now everyone is forced to go full berserker. See? These kind of aproach isnt good.

Wide variety of skills, maybe with phases, well telepgraphed attacks etc like in Dark souls, but we already have a few great examples, Lupi or Evolved shaman.

(edited by Dalanor.5387)

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

Keep this on topic guys…trying to get constructive criticism for some ideas i posted, not arguing about gear in itself. just a solution to make it where all styels of play and gear is viable…primarily the random tile set idea.

OP

As I said before, I like the tile set idea in principle. I’ve even pushed for it in the past. However, I believe the biggest flaw is that no matter how many combinations are possible, that number will be finite. This means that players would sooner or later learn all the possible tiles and the newness would fade and be replaced by diminishing returns on interest. At what point would the game population be better served with the effort being put instead into a regular stream of new dungeon content?

For tile sets to offset the opportunity cost associated with their development, tile set content would have to maintain that “new” experience longer than new dungeons would — based on the same amount of developer resources. Further, given ANet’s lack of attention to dungeons, I hold little hope that they will adapt the existing paths — so even if the idea were adopted, we’d only see it on new ones. Besides, tile sets might be a way to extend the life of content, however, they would not “solve the zerker problem.”

You’re confusing viable and optimal. Various gear and play styles are viable in GW2 in a way that is not so in other games. They’re just not “the best option.” By defining “zerk” as a “problem” that needs to be solved, you’re saying that other gear and build choices should either replace zerker or stand alongside it as optimal.

The optimal outcome in group play is group success (completion, plus speed in the current meta). To make a variety of gear builds optimal, you’d have to design content so that each of those builds is required. This would completely kill the “anything goes” groups that complete dungeons now. Meanwhile, meta PuGgers would just evolve a new meta and exclude anyone who didn’t fulfill the new optimal — while creating situations of “need X build to go” for everyone. How is that a good thing?

(edited by IndigoSundown.5419)

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

You do already get other benefits. Take PVT/clerics and you become immortal.

In WvW you can die in a zerg, for sure, WvW roaming you won’t die but you won’t kill anything, if the target see that can’t kill you, they just leave.
In PvP will be just like WvW roaming, but that is kinda good to hold an area.
In many PvE bosses you find 1 hit KO mechanics that doesn’t matter how tanky you are, you’ll die. So in those scenarios you’ll only drag the party down by not killing the boss faster.

Please list the 1 hit attacks that will 1 hit someone in PVT/clerics etc. I can think of maybe 3 total? Even in berserker a lot of claimed 1 hit KO’s wont completely 1 hit most classes. They will maybe 1 hit thieves and eles but the other classes they will do like 90% of their hp. If those classes build passive defence and stack prot then the danger is completely bypassed even with terrible avoidance management.

I actually find it shocking that people can actually die in PVT/clerics etc since we did that no dodge arah p2. I have never experienced anything as faceroll as stacking passive defence.

http://youtu.be/aZgRUtK7LkM
http://youtu.be/b2VhmwLwvrM

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Posted by: Morsus.5106

Morsus.5106

There will always be Zerker elitists. No matter how hard the game is, there will always be someone saying “Yeah, this game is easy, so I roll zerker because I know how to dodge!”. The sooner we all realize that there are going to be elitists and move on, the better.

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Posted by: Ropechef.6192

Ropechef.6192

the new patch will come out July first…

after the download every enemy has 10 times the toughness they did before. Thereby negating Berzerker damage to a large extent.

and we will be back here in less that 48 hours complaining how the “rabid” meta is ruining the game…..

0.o

All of the things you want out of Mob AI exist, And it is some of the most despised content in the whole of the game. by a majority of the player base.

the forums. are NOT the majority of the playerbase.

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Posted by: dustinharlin.8693

dustinharlin.8693

I don’t understand this debate.. No one is forcing you to use zerker gear. I don’t use ANY berserker armor or trinkets on ANY characters and I do just fine. I just don’t enjoy playing glass cannons(or full dps calsses for that matter. I miss healing soooo bad /sadface). If the min-maxing crowd wants to do things as fast as possible with zerker gear then whats wrong with that? If us casuals want to play the game and have fun in whatever random armor we feel like using then whats wrong with that? Sure we might not get things done as fast as the zerkers, but we’ll have more fun doing it(I know I do, I hate rushing through content)!

I also don’t understand people’s need to get everything done as fast as possible, what ever happened to chilling out, taking a deep breath, and enjoying the journey rather than just the destination?

(edited by dustinharlin.8693)

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Posted by: RyuDragnier.9476

RyuDragnier.9476

You do already get other benefits. Take PVT/clerics and you become immortal.

In WvW you can die in a zerg, for sure, WvW roaming you won’t die but you won’t kill anything, if the target see that can’t kill you, they just leave.
In PvP will be just like WvW roaming, but that is kinda good to hold an area.
In many PvE bosses you find 1 hit KO mechanics that doesn’t matter how tanky you are, you’ll die. So in those scenarios you’ll only drag the party down by not killing the boss faster.

This is part of the problem IMO, there’s too many mechanics that encourage killing faster. Lose the 1-shot mechanics on many bosses, and that will help encourage other armors. As would making it so every enemy attacks much faster and actively dodges like the Bandits do in Lornar’s Pass, that would go a long way to fixing it. Because have you guys fought the Bandits that use Ranger Sword? Jesus Christ do they hit hard and fast, and they actively dodge! PvE with more enemies attacking that hard and fast would = <3

[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald