Guild Wars 2

Did you just call people dumb for trusting a company to not mislead them? This coming from the guy that can’t tell the difference between their and there?

each Black Lion Chest you open has a chance to give you one of six exclusive Halloween-themed weapon skins!

has a chance

You can clearly see that those skins aren’t meant for everyone to have. If it was for everyone then they’d say “Each chest contains one exclusive Halloween-themed weapon skins!”

buzzkapow.8465:

Did you just call people dumb for trusting a company to not mislead them? This coming from the guy that can’t tell the difference between their and there?

Ha! I actually laughed out loud at your post. You think companies are honest.

In all fairness, and without trying to be hostile:

I somehow doubt anyone needed this particualr warning at this point.

I am pretty certain most, if not all, people who were considering spending money on the chests, have gathered that there is this debate over the droprates.

It is a bit hard to avoid this particular issue on the forums for the moment.

It’s understandable you want to post about it, so do others and so do I, in other topics…
Your new warning serves little purpose by itself I’m afraid.

So people who conserve their assets, and resist gluttony and temptation, are reaping the benefits? Shocked I tell you! Shocked!

nldixon.8514:

buzzkapow.8465:

Did you just call people dumb for trusting a company to not mislead them? This coming from the guy that can’t tell the difference between their and there?

Ha! I actually laughed out loud at your post. You think companies are honest.

Actually, no. I never once said Companies are honest. But most companies at least try to keep their customers happy. That’s why the saying “the customer is always right” is even around. Even though it’s wrong most of the time. But trusting a company doesn’t mean they are honest. It means that they have acted in good faith in the past, and you expect that trend to continue.

1. Will you or will you not be buying black lion trading company or random number generation materials again?

No

2. Did you buy them in the past?

No

3. If you would not buy trading post material/gamble, would you support direct to buy weapon skins and what general price do you find acceptable from a business standpoint both as a customer and realizing that they must make money as a business?

Example: Yes. I would buy them if they were direct purchases.

4. Do you believe that future events will also be handled with random number generation to make profit based on limited time item acquisition?

Example: Yes for at least a year.

5. If you believe that the future events will be handled in the same manner, does this realization negatively effect your trust of Arena Net in regard to handling micro transactions for permanent content?

Yes, it is disappointing but I am hopeful it will change in the future.

6. Did you obtain a skin or whatever it is you were looking to get from the black lion trading chests? From the Mad King Chests?

No I didn’t obtain the item I wanted from the chest. I also didn’t obtain the item I wanted from the Mad King Chest.

7. Have you bought any of the direct purchase, set priced halloween items. If so, will you be buying more?

No, but I am considering purchasing a costume. I would prefer that the costume be wearable out in explorable areas but given the same stats as my current armor. I don’t spend any time in the “cities” so “town clothes” are not much of an attraction for me at this time.

DenverRalphy.4185:

So people who conserve their assets, and resist gluttony and temptation, are reaping the benefits? Shocked I tell you! Shocked!

I’m 99% sure you used sarcasm there and I’ll respond like it was sarcasm.

Uhm…this is exactly NOT what is happening right now. People who drank their Tonics when they got them (gluttony and temptation) feel no difference. They would’ve drank named AND Mystery-Tonics anyways. People who conserve what they got from their chests after the 25th of Sept are fine and able to “reap the benefits” while people conserve what they got before that day are stuck with a full bank AND the inability to reap the benefits.

Nice try though.

DenverRalphy.4185:

So people who conserve their assets, and resist gluttony and temptation, are reaping the benefits? Shocked I tell you! Shocked!

That has nothing to do with anything. When the game first launched, the tonics you got in the BL chests were named. Like “Snow Owl Tonic,” “Minotaur Tonic,” etc. Sometime later, ANet changed the tonics in BL chests to “Mystery Tonic” without retroactively changing the previous tonics. Moreover, people had no way of knowing that the tonics will change a month after launch.

What the OP is trying to say is that those players who opened BL chests after the change from named tonics to mystery tonics get an advantage since they can use those tonics in the forge.

Also, I would love for ANet to change all of my named tonics to Mystery tonics. That way I can free up about 15 bank slots.

buzzkapow.8465:

nldixon.8514:

buzzkapow.8465:

Did you just call people dumb for trusting a company to not mislead them? This coming from the guy that can’t tell the difference between their and there?

Ha! I actually laughed out loud at your post. You think companies are honest.

Actually, no. I never once said Companies are honest. But most companies at least try to keep their customers happy. That’s why the saying “the customer is always right” is even around. Even though it’s wrong most of the time. But trusting a company doesn’t mean they are honest. It means that they have acted in good faith in the past, and you expect that trend to continue.

ANet didn’t act in bad faith. They stated you have a chance to get an item. If you get the item, you’re happy. If you don’t get the item, you’re mad. That’s the gist of this whole debacle. People gambled and lost, people got mad. Boohoo.

cryptomega.3745:

NinjaKnight.1340:

cryptomega.3745:

Not like a casino? MMOs have relied on random loot drops and extreme rarity for over a decade. It’s part of the addiction. It is precisely how I explained the enjoyment of a game like World of Warcraft to my aging father, who knows a thing or two about the lure of a one-armed bandit but couldn’t get his head around people playing this type of game.

This current whine is also awfully similar to the complaining about legendary precursors. What is telling is that the same people aren’t committing forum seppuku over the fact that the rarity of the item being dropped from a mob is equally low, if not lower. Who cares what the mechanism is? Chest, forge, mob .. rare is rare.

Uh, BIG difference between a positive surprise while fighting a mob and getting something rare and dropping $80US RL money and getting nothing. Casinos have WAY better odds.

So, you haven’t gambled much, have you? If you were guaranteed to make a profit every time you gambled 100 bucks, casinos wouldn’t exist. Incidentally, I got the greatsaw skin and avian shoulders within the first 20 regular chests. Burned through all my boosters (about 50 MKC) and got the shield and two more sets of shoulders. Judging by the responses, I’d say I was lucky. Some will win, some will lose – it’s the whole point of gambling.

try reading some of my posts above. I went into great detail about the house odds and calculations. Say roulette at 81% return. So i spend $100 on keys and I should at a minimum get $81 back, if not in rare items, in other Halloweenish items I can sell or keep if i prefer. The problem is most of the lousy items you get are account bound.

Viewpoint from someone just under a week into the game, but has had experience with microtransactions in general (in particular, the system that ArenaNet referenced in their original Gems blog post).

1. Random (and/or this event in particular)? No.
BL in general? Yes (unlocking normal BL chests – I’m practically having them thrown at me right now).

2. Did you buy them in the past? Yes, for the above, and a little bit of starting silver (so I’d not worry as much about starting gear – atm I’m trying to concentrate on how the combat works out). Out of a 1200 Gems key, I still have 750 left (which I hope to reserve for more keys toward regular chests).

3. Yes, direct-buy is fine. Equiv $2-5 each item is probably reasonable, given that we’re probably talking about mid-level items (in most cases).

4. Yes.

5. No.

6. N/A, not participating in this part of the event.

7. Not yet / Probably not. We’ve not seen the entire event roll through yet so I can’t make an accurate answer here (who knows, they may actually give out a civilian outfit I could live with). ;-)

But, those tonics are totally worth the key… Or so we’re told

I’ve never bought keys, and unless they either cost less or give you more, I’m never going to. If I want boosts, I’ll buy them directly. To make the tonics that many have been throwing away (because they’re worthless other than the few minutes of fun to be had with them and in my opinion it’s not enough fun to justify buying keys) a crafting ingredient is a “richard” move in my opinion. The chance of getting anything else good from these chests is so low that it’s just not worth it.

If you want people to take a gamble, you have to get them to believe the gamble will be worth it, and this is where I believe ArenaNet has failed. I don’t believe the keys are worth it. Maybe there are enough suckers out there that do, and it makes enough money for ArenaNet to feel it was worth doing. Is that worth the bitterness so many people feel about this? I guess we’ll find out.

In order to make me believe buying keys will pay off, one of two things needs to happen.

1) The keys need to cost a lot less so that I’m happy to spend gems on them (and you’d think that’s what ArenaNet would want: people eager instead of reluctant to spend gems) because I feel I’d have a better chance at the good stuff.

and/or…

2) The chances of getting something really good need to be increased to the point where word of mouth spreads that the keys are worth the gamble.

Like I said, if ArenaNet feels like how they’ve worked the keys so far has been correct and profitable enough they feel they can ignore the complaints of some players, then I guess there’s nothing to do here.

But it seems to me that what they would really want is both money and happy players because happy players leads to much more money down the road. And with the backlash over the keys I don’t think they can claim players are happy about this.

Mirodir.1672:

DenverRalphy.4185:

So people who conserve their assets, and resist gluttony and temptation, are reaping the benefits? Shocked I tell you! Shocked!

I’m 99% sure you used sarcasm there and I’ll respond like it was sarcasm.

Uhm…this is exactly NOT what is happening right now. People who drank their Tonics when they got them (gluttony and temptation) feel no difference. They would’ve drank named AND Mystery-Tonics anyways. People who conserve what they got from their chests after the 25th of Sept are fine and able to “reap the benefits” while people conserve what they got before that day are stuck with a full bank AND the inability to reap the benefits.

Nice try though.

If you opened chests before the Halloween event, then you knew exactly what you were getting and got exactly what was promised. It ends there.

The problem with the Halloween chests was that they were advertised as Halloween chests but most of the items inside were regular, non Halloween items and people wanted Halloween items. That’s why they got to convert them to chests containing Halloween items.

1. Will you or will you not be buying black lion trading company or random number generation materials again?

I will be buying stuff from the BLTC in the future. Not using real money though.

2. Did you buy them in the past?

I bought one set of Dyes using converted ingame-gold.

3. If you would not buy trading post material/gamble, would you support direct to buy weapon skins and what general price do you find acceptable from a business standpoint both as a customer and realizing that they must make money as a business?

I am glad they are a gamble. Whoever doesn’t like the gamble has the possibility to get those skins in the TP

4. Do you believe that future events will also be handled with random number generation to make profit based on limited time item acquisition?

No because of all the whiners…and I’m sad about it.

5. If you believe that the future events will be handled in the same manner, does this realization negatively effect your trust of Arena Net in regard to handling micro transactions for permanent content?

No it doesn’t. It would raise my trust into AN because it makes them stay true to their decisions.

6. Did you obtain a skin or whatever it is you were looking to get from the black lion trading chests? From the Mad King Chests?

Yes. I opened one chest with a key I got during my Personal Story on a toon…and I got one skin. I was a fan of the gambling before that moment already though.

7. Have you bought any of the direct purchase, set priced halloween items. If so, will you be buying more?

If the Halloween Minis count…then yes I did.

NinjaKnight.1340:

cryptomega.3745:

NinjaKnight.1340:

cryptomega.3745:

Not like a casino? MMOs have relied on random loot drops and extreme rarity for over a decade. It’s part of the addiction. It is precisely how I explained the enjoyment of a game like World of Warcraft to my aging father, who knows a thing or two about the lure of a one-armed bandit but couldn’t get his head around people playing this type of game.

This current whine is also awfully similar to the complaining about legendary precursors. What is telling is that the same people aren’t committing forum seppuku over the fact that the rarity of the item being dropped from a mob is equally low, if not lower. Who cares what the mechanism is? Chest, forge, mob .. rare is rare.

Uh, BIG difference between a positive surprise while fighting a mob and getting something rare and dropping $80US RL money and getting nothing. Casinos have WAY better odds.

So, you haven’t gambled much, have you? If you were guaranteed to make a profit every time you gambled 100 bucks, casinos wouldn’t exist. Incidentally, I got the greatsaw skin and avian shoulders within the first 20 regular chests. Burned through all my boosters (about 50 MKC) and got the shield and two more sets of shoulders. Judging by the responses, I’d say I was lucky. Some will win, some will lose – it’s the whole point of gambling.

try reading some of my posts above. I went into great detail about the house odds and calculations. Say roulette at 81% return. So i spend $100 on keys and I should at a minimum get $81 back, if not in rare items, in other Halloweenish items I can sell or keep if i prefer. The problem is most of the lousy items you get are account bound.

This whole idea that you’re pushing is complete and utter nonsense. Please stop. Read up on how gambling works and how those returns you keep bringing up are computed. It doesn’t work anything like what you’re saying.

So, they actually listened, and the solution for people who hate rngs is… more rng? Brilliant.

aliquis.9180:

If you opened chests before the Halloween event, then you knew exactly what you were getting and got exactly what was promised. It ends there.

The problem with the Halloween chests was that they were advertised as Halloween chests but most of the items inside were regular, non Halloween items and people wanted Halloween items. That’s why they got to convert them to chests containing Halloween items.

They were not advertised as “Halloween chests” in any way. All they said was that they added a chance to get an exclusive skin during the event. Also people had the same problem back when they added more stuff to the BLC about month ago.
Also: Do you think we knew what was in the chests back then? We opened them and then saw what’s inside. We didn’t know exactly what was in there, we also had to find out first.
I’m not complaining that people who wanted Halloween items get a second chance. I’m complaining that everyone who opened chests since the 25th of Sept (not Oct) gets chances while everyone who used their keys prior to that date (which is unrelated to Halloween) doesn’t.

1. Will you or will you not be buying black lion trading company or random number generation materials again?

No.

2. Did you buy them in the past?

No

3. If you would not buy trading post material/gamble, would you support direct to buy weapon skins and what general price do you find acceptable from a business standpoint both as a customer and realizing that they must make money as a business?

I would buy them. TERA had such things priced at $9.99 and I bought a couple of them.

4. Do you believe that future events will also be handled with random number generation to make profit based on limited time item acquisition?

Yes

5. If you believe that the future events will be handled in the same manner, does this realization negatively effect your trust of Arena Net in regard to handling micro transactions for permanent content?

No, because “trust” as you’re using the word doesn’t apply here. ArenaNet has done nothing untrustworthy. I just don’t feel it’s worth it to buy keys: they cost too much and the chances of drops are too low, end of story. That’s not a matter of trust.

6. Did you obtain a skin or whatever it is you were looking to get from the black lion trading chests? From the Mad King Chests?

No, because I have no keys and I’m not going to buy any.

7. Have you bought any of the direct purchase, set priced halloween items. If so, will you be buying more?

Yes, and I will buy more in the future for this event and most likely for future events.

1. No. I will not participate in any RNG that requires real money.

2. No. I was planning to buy them because of the weapon skins but when I found out about the abysmal drop rate, I changed my mind.

3. Yes. 250gems for 1handed weapon skins, 500gems for 2handed skins.

4. Yes, sadly. There is no doubt in my mind that Nexon is calling the shots on this one.

5. Yes. If Anet doesn’t reassess the situation, I see a lot more nefarious use of the cash shop in the future and me leaving because of it.

6. No. I opened a few Mad King Chests and got some candy corn and an onyx shard. I purchased 2 skins (avian shoulders and rifle) from the TP.

7. No.

Because the vocal minority of a forum represents the majority of people playing the game. You’re only even asking based on one instance of customer dissatisfaction, which shows this is more of a reactive attention grab made to stack the responses than anything done for anyone’s actual benefit.

aliquis.9180:

NinjaKnight.1340:

cryptomega.3745:

NinjaKnight.1340:

cryptomega.3745:

Not like a casino? MMOs have relied on random loot drops and extreme rarity for over a decade. It’s part of the addiction. It is precisely how I explained the enjoyment of a game like World of Warcraft to my aging father, who knows a thing or two about the lure of a one-armed bandit but couldn’t get his head around people playing this type of game.

This current whine is also awfully similar to the complaining about legendary precursors. What is telling is that the same people aren’t committing forum seppuku over the fact that the rarity of the item being dropped from a mob is equally low, if not lower. Who cares what the mechanism is? Chest, forge, mob .. rare is rare.

Uh, BIG difference between a positive surprise while fighting a mob and getting something rare and dropping $80US RL money and getting nothing. Casinos have WAY better odds.

So, you haven’t gambled much, have you? If you were guaranteed to make a profit every time you gambled 100 bucks, casinos wouldn’t exist. Incidentally, I got the greatsaw skin and avian shoulders within the first 20 regular chests. Burned through all my boosters (about 50 MKC) and got the shield and two more sets of shoulders. Judging by the responses, I’d say I was lucky. Some will win, some will lose – it’s the whole point of gambling.

try reading some of my posts above. I went into great detail about the house odds and calculations. Say roulette at 81% return. So i spend $100 on keys and I should at a minimum get $81 back, if not in rare items, in other Halloweenish items I can sell or keep if i prefer. The problem is most of the lousy items you get are account bound.

This whole idea that you’re pushing is complete and utter nonsense. Please stop. Read up on how gambling works and how those returns you keep bringing up are computed. It doesn’t work anything like what you’re saying.

I know about math and I have done recreational gambling in Vegas. I have studied for fun the math etc behind pro gambling.

Can you please give me a very specific example of how my calculations ideas are wrong? Making a general blanket statement like you did is easy but has no foundation.

Mirodir.1672:

aliquis.9180:

If you opened chests before the Halloween event, then you knew exactly what you were getting and got exactly what was promised. It ends there.

The problem with the Halloween chests was that they were advertised as Halloween chests but most of the items inside were regular, non Halloween items and people wanted Halloween items. That’s why they got to convert them to chests containing Halloween items.

They were not advertised as “Halloween chests” in any way. All they said was that they added a chance to get an exclusive skin during the event. Also people had the same problem back when they added more stuff to the BLC about month ago.
Also: Do you think we knew what was in the chests back then? We opened them and then saw what’s inside. We didn’t know exactly what was in there, we also had to find out first.
I’m not complaining that people who wanted Halloween items get a second chance. I’m complaining that everyone who opened chests since the 25th of Sept (not Oct) gets chances while everyone who used their keys prior to that date (which is unrelated to Halloween) doesn’t.

How would you not have known what you were getting when you can mouse over the chest and it says exactly what you get: a random tool, a random buff and a random stack of tonics. I opened a few before Halloween and I knew what I was getting.

I never gamble when I don’t know the odds or can not afford to lose my bet

More whining? I’m shocked. You opened chests when you opened them… knowing what was in them. Any change made 1 minute after that entitles you to nothing.

Why would you jump into a pool that was only filled with a foot of water, original poster? Is there something wrong with you?

It’s a simple naming issue Aliquis, nothing more.

The tonics before sept 25 were called different than those after.

This makes that the same tonics, but under their old names, aren’t usable in the Mad King recipes.
While all others since september 25 are usable.

That’s it.
Nothing about random, or gambling, or complaing… just a naming issue for basically the same items.

NinjaKnight.1340:

aliquis.9180:

NinjaKnight.1340:

cryptomega.3745:

NinjaKnight.1340:

cryptomega.3745:

Not like a casino? MMOs have relied on random loot drops and extreme rarity for over a decade. It’s part of the addiction. It is precisely how I explained the enjoyment of a game like World of Warcraft to my aging father, who knows a thing or two about the lure of a one-armed bandit but couldn’t get his head around people playing this type of game.

This current whine is also awfully similar to the complaining about legendary precursors. What is telling is that the same people aren’t committing forum seppuku over the fact that the rarity of the item being dropped from a mob is equally low, if not lower. Who cares what the mechanism is? Chest, forge, mob .. rare is rare.

Uh, BIG difference between a positive surprise while fighting a mob and getting something rare and dropping $80US RL money and getting nothing. Casinos have WAY better odds.

So, you haven’t gambled much, have you? If you were guaranteed to make a profit every time you gambled 100 bucks, casinos wouldn’t exist. Incidentally, I got the greatsaw skin and avian shoulders within the first 20 regular chests. Burned through all my boosters (about 50 MKC) and got the shield and two more sets of shoulders. Judging by the responses, I’d say I was lucky. Some will win, some will lose – it’s the whole point of gambling.

try reading some of my posts above. I went into great detail about the house odds and calculations. Say roulette at 81% return. So i spend $100 on keys and I should at a minimum get $81 back, if not in rare items, in other Halloweenish items I can sell or keep if i prefer. The problem is most of the lousy items you get are account bound.

This whole idea that you’re pushing is complete and utter nonsense. Please stop. Read up on how gambling works and how those returns you keep bringing up are computed. It doesn’t work anything like what you’re saying.

I know about math and I have done recreational gambling in Vegas. I have studied for fun the math etc behind pro gambling.

Can you please give me a very specific example of how my calculations ideas are wrong? Making a general blanket statement like you did is easy but has no foundation.

You make it sound as if everyone gets about 80-90% of the amount they gamble. That is ridiculous. Most people get 0. The returns are aggregates and the vast majority of the return amount is used for large jackpots. That means that if 1 million people gamble $1 each, and there is an 80% return, then one person can win an $800,000 jackpot and everyone else gets absolutely nothing. Zero. Zip. Not 80% for everyone. What a laughable idea.

aliquis.9180:

How would you not have known what you were getting when you can mouse over the chest and it says exactly what you get: a random tool, a random buff and a random stack of tonics. I opened a few before Halloween and I knew what I was getting.

Right. But the name of the tonics that drop from the chests changed after Sept. 25th. Before the tonics that dropped from the chests were named: Snow Owl Tonic, Pink Moa Tonic, etc. After they became “Mystery Tonics” but the names of the tonics that we already had prior to Sept. 25th were not changed to Mystery Tonics. I still have half of a bank tab full of named tonics.

If a casino, or any other gambling venue, only has one big prize and nothing else, they won’t last long.

People need consolation prices, or they stop puring in money, no matter how big the big prize is.
They need to get small incentives to continue.

This is one thing Anet did wrong with their chests. This simple rule.

aliquis.9180:

How would you not have known what you were getting when you can mouse over the chest and it says exactly what you get: a random tool, a random buff and a random stack of tonics. I opened a few before Halloween and I knew what I was getting.

They had items in there that were less common than others…back then as they do now. But we’re getting far off-topic here.

bluewanders.5297:

More whining? I’m shocked. You opened chests when you opened them… knowing what was in them. Any change made 1 minute after that entitles you to nothing.

Yes. I’m not saying I am entitled to anything. I’m actually happy with my bank full of specific Tonics…As I said. If people are allowed to feel cheated who opened chests since the 25th of Sept then everyone who opened chests before that day is allowed to feel cheated.

Kimbald.2697:

It’s a simple naming issue Aliquis, nothing more.

The tonics before sept 25 were called different than those after.

This makes that the same tonics, but under their old names, aren’t usable in the Mad King recipes.
While all others since september 25 are usable.

That’s it.
Nothing about random, or gambling, or complaing… just a naming issue for basically the same items.

It’s not exactly the same. You can actually craft those named Tonics with the Mystery Tonics in the Mystic Forge. They are basically ONE specific animal that you can turn into by chance when using a Mystery Tonic. Sadly you can only do:
Mystery→Named
but not: Named→Mystery.

So I combined boosts with the new recipe in the mystic forge. I had 90 Mad King chests. Not 1 weapon skin. Don’t waste your boosts trying, I don’t think it’s even a possibility as loot in these. I had like 70% MF, if that even applies to chests.

ok, I understand the difference.

The end result is the same I think.

Still I don’t get where all the hostility is coming from. It’s not like you are complaining about droprates or gambling odds…
You basically want to be able to use the older named tonics as well, seeing how they were obtained the same way, in the same chests.

Seems a fair request to me.

Oreoz.2573:

SHM.7628:

1. Will you or will you not be buying black lion trading company or random number generation materials again?

No way.

2. Did you buy them in the past?

Never

3. If you would not buy trading post material/gamble, would you support direct to buy weapon skins and what general price do you find acceptable from a business standpoint both as a customer and realizing that they must make money as a business?

No, I know I am uncommon but I’d never pay real money for "*skins"*

4. Do you believe that future events will also be handled with random number generation to make profit based on limited time item acquisition?

If its profitable then I’d say yes. (I don’t suspect that it will be)

5. If you believe that the future events will be handled in the same manner, does this realization negatively effect your trust of Arena Net in regard to handling micro transactions for permanent content?

No, They lost my trust long before this. I refuse to spend cash in the cash shop. Most of the cash shop items are junk anyway. Perhaps I would have paid for a permanent golem banker. I might have also paid for a nice set of exotics if the price was decent enough to set off the Karma grind. However as a philosophy, I don’t believe in paying for in game items. especially when the game is lackluster.

Lackluster.

Why are you playing?

haven’t played in weeks. still check in on forums to see what’s going on with the game. It’s not like they’ll refund my money.

@aliquis
if you read my thread of discussion I was using Roulette as a simple example for calculation purposes of house odds.

You are correct that in small samples some people will get nothing. If I place one bet on Red in roulette there is a 59.5% chance I will get nothing and a 40.5% chance I will double my money. IfI were to do this 100 times I would likely get near 81% return.

What you are talking about is more in the realm of lottery where you buy a $1 lottery ticket and have a very small chance of winning $1 million+ and they sprinkle smaller winnings in between so that people are motivated to keep buying.

The Chests are nothing like that because we know there is no gigantic jackpot. The most sought after item ATM is the Chainsaw and it goes for around 50G last I checked. Furthermore, it becomes soulbound once used =/= RL money or assets which can be resold.

Hopefully that clarifies my point.

I think what most people are upset about is that it is a gambling mechanic period. As the video said, if he wants a skin, he should just be able to get the skin.

For example. I play league of legends, if i want a skin for one of the champions I play, I just go to the game store, and buy it. Not a random chance for it.

Gah! At least my boosts had value! This stuff in the mad king chests isn’t good for anything. Turned the $20 I spent on gems into low value boosts and then into no value candy corn and plastic spider tonics.

Heck, I have like 50 Animal Tonics in my bank. The only thing that’s making me mad is that there’s no way for us to craft backwards. You can craft mystery tonics, that’s great, you can upgrade them to animal tonics, again, really cool, but you’re not allowed to undo one animal tonic that you can’t use for anything into a mystery tonic that has multiple other uses.

I’m fine if they leave the system like this, but AT LEAST give us the option of reversing our stupid tonics if we want to.

1. Will you or will you not be buying black lion trading company or random number generation materials again?

No

2. Did you buy them in the past?

Yes

3. If you would not buy trading post material/gamble, would you support direct to buy weapon skins and what general price do you find acceptable from a business standpoint both as a customer and realizing that they must make money as a business?

Yes, at about $10-15 for a full costume/armor set. $5-10 for a weapon.

4. Do you believe that future events will also be handled with random number generation to make profit based on limited time item acquisition?

Yes. I think Anet will do it again. Seems to have alot of people that NEED to spend the tons of money to get desperately get the skins they want.

5. If you believe that the future events will be handled in the same manner, does this realization negatively effect your trust of Arena Net in regard to handling micro transactions for permanent content?

Yes. It is quite shady to do a gambling method. Does not inspire confidence and transparency in user base. Also games that always base all their skins on gambling tend to lose alot of user base fast after the initial charm wears off. Hope that does not happen to GW2, but Anet should help to do it’s part.

They’re not rare. They’re mastercraft! Notice how they’re green named!

Kimbald.2697:

If a casino, or any other gambling venue, only has one big prize and nothing else, they won’t last long.

People need consolation prices, or they stop puring in money, no matter how big the big prize is.
They need to get small incentives to continue.

This is one thing Anet did wrong with their chests. This simple rule.

Look at it this way. If I tell you to gamble a Dollar with me and I give you 80 cents right back. Would you do it? Of course not, that would be an awful deal, but that would be the 80% return.

Or, I can tell you, gamble a Dollar with me and you will probably not win anything, but there is a small chance that you win an enormous amount.

That’s the lure of gambling. Of course mine was an extreme example and in reality, if you gamble long enough, you will win some small amounts to keep you going. But the real draw of gambling is the small chance of winning really big.

1. Will you or will you not be buying black lion trading company or random number generation materials again?

No.

2. Did you buy them in the past?

No. I bought them just for the event.

3. If you would not buy trading post material/gamble, would you support direct to buy weapon skins and what general price do you find acceptable from a business standpoint both as a customer and realizing that they must make money as a business?

Yes. I make a point to spend $10-20 a month to support Anet

4. Do you believe that future events will also be handled with random number generation to make profit based on limited time item acquisition?

Yes. As long as the Nexon lady still works for them.

5. If you believe that the future events will be handled in the same manner, does this realization negatively effect your trust of Arena Net in regard to handling micro transactions for permanent content?

Yes. I don’t trust Anet anymore.

aliquis.9180:

Kimbald.2697:

If a casino, or any other gambling venue, only has one big prize and nothing else, they won’t last long.

People need consolation prices, or they stop puring in money, no matter how big the big prize is.
They need to get small incentives to continue.

This is one thing Anet did wrong with their chests. This simple rule.

Look at it this way. If I tell you to gamble a Dollar with me and I give you 80 cents right back. Would you do it? Of course not, that would be an awful deal, but that would be the 80% return.

Or, I can tell you, gamble a Dollar with me and you will probably not win anything, but there is a small chance that you win an enormous amount.

That’s the lure of gambling. Of course mine was an extreme example and in reality, if you gamble long enough, you will win some small amounts to keep you going. But the real draw of gambling is the small chance of winning really big.

So what is the winning really big? A 50G Chainsaw which you can buy for certain in the TP without gambling for about $100 in gems>gold.

As you can see in the threads people have spent $200 on keys and got nothing but the usual account bound junk.

1. Will you or will you not be buying black lion trading company or random number generation materials again?

I will not buy into anything random/gamble in the future.

2. Did you buy them in the past?

Yes.

3. If you would not buy trading post material/gamble, would you support direct to buy weapon skins and what general price do you find acceptable from a business standpoint both as a customer and realizing that they must make money as a business?

Yes. I will support ArenaNet on non-gamble sales. E.g., 700 Gems for an Outfit.

4. Do you believe that future events will also be handled with random number generation to make profit based on limited time item acquisition?

Yes.

5. If you believe that the future events will be handled in the same manner, does this realization negatively effect your trust of Arena Net in regard to handling micro transactions for permanent content?

No and Yes. Outfits are not random, good fun, reasonably priced. Random gamble items is a plague of F2P however, and I hate that ArenaNet has gone this path.

6. Did you obtain a skin or whatever it is you were looking to get from the black lion trading chests? From the Mad King Chests?

Yes. 1 Skin (Scythe) out of several Black Lion Chests (did not purchase keys for all). Nothing decent from Mad King Chests.

7. Have you bought any of the direct purchase, set priced halloween items. If so, will you be buying more?

Yes. I will buy more Outfits (and non-gamble items), if they are of the same high quality, in the future.

aliquis.9180:

Kimbald.2697:

If a casino, or any other gambling venue, only has one big prize and nothing else, they won’t last long.

People need consolation prices, or they stop puring in money, no matter how big the big prize is.
They need to get small incentives to continue.

This is one thing Anet did wrong with their chests. This simple rule.

Look at it this way. If I tell you to gamble a Dollar with me and I give you 80 cents right back. Would you do it? Of course not, that would be an awful deal, but that would be the 80% return.

Or, I can tell you, gamble a Dollar with me and you will probably not win anything, but there is a small chance that you win an enormous amount.

That’s the lure of gambling. Of course mine was an extreme example and in reality, if you gamble long enough, you will win some small amounts to keep you going. But the real draw of gambling is the small chance of winning really big.

Yes, that’s true indeed. The real draw is the big prize, wouldn’t argue agaisnt that.

But don’t neglect the small winnings to keep you going. I’m really serious when i say that no gambling system can prosper for long without those.

If the chests had silly halloween items in each of them, while having a few common items that sometimes popped up.
All while the rare drops stayed just as rare as now.
Do you think the whole uproar would have been this big at all?

NinjaKnight.1340:

@aliquis
if you read my thread of discussion I was using Roulette as a simple example for calculation purposes of house odds.

You are correct that in small samples some people will get nothing. If I place one bet on Red in roulette there is a 59.5% chance I will get nothing and a 40.5% chance I will double my money. IfI were to do this 100 times I would likely get near 81% return.

What you are talking about is more in the realm of lottery where you buy a $1 lottery ticket and have a very small chance of winning $1 million+ and they sprinkle smaller winnings in between so that people are motivated to keep buying.

The Chests are nothing like that because we know there is no gigantic jackpot. The most sought after item ATM is the Chainsaw and it goes for around 50G last I checked. Furthermore, it becomes soulbound once used =/= RL money or assets which can be resold.

Hopefully that clarifies my point.

The chests are very much like the lottery because there are only jackpots and consolation prizes. Nothing in between. So it is absurd and irresponsible to suggest to people that they should expect an 80% return.

I agree with the OP. When all of the “entitlement” stuff gets out of hand it can seem to the person who that is being said about that they are personally flawed. It is offensive. Remember folks, people behind the keyboard DO have feelings. Also, this whole thing casts a negative light on the game as well. All of this bickering and infighting can get really bad and make the community look very unwelcoming to a person who may be trying to read up on it in advance to buying it. It is easy to disagree with someone using words that are negative, but is equally simple to disagree with someone in a polite manner that is more friendly than not.
I would like this game to be inviting to everyone who wants to play it and be respectful toward one another. Will probably never happen, but here is to wishful thinking. Someone has always gotta kitten on someone else’s Cornflakes I guess.

Well I had 4 mad king chests and got a shoulderpad skin, so clearly the chance of getting something is 25%.

In other news, random is random. Sorry about your luck :\

I opened up another BLC and Mad Chest earlier, got 3 plastic spider tonics and a Karma booster as being the better items I got. Lottery system in place ruins the entire experience of the event, I’d probably say that the drop rate for the jackpot items is most likely less than 1% Only real way to find out if someone opened up 1000s of each and posted the results…and like that would happen.