Guild Wars 2

Many people saw on reddit a player based post that you’ll need 175 hero points to unlock elite specs, and skills. And 250 for the special weapon.

The 175 hero points thing HAS to be a joke. Anet knows a strong amount of the playerbase does pvp and wvw only. You pretty much would need map completion to unlock an elite specizalation. A requirement for map completion to unlock one of the biggest things in the expansion would cause a massive drop in the playerbase, to much complaints, to many demands for refunds.

Whoever came up with the 175 does not work for anet, so they have 0 idea how to even unlock the elite specizalation classes. It could even be a special quest you need to do to unlock it. I wouldn’t worry about the 175 points personally. A lot of people do not have map completion and a lot of people never will. They wouldn’t introduce a major selling point for something most people won’t get. So relax. Gw2 is a great game, they wouldn’t kill it on purpose. The elite specizalations will be able to be unlocked by everyone I would imagine fairly easily.

pvp only players don’t have to worry about unlocking skills/traits.

wvw only players, yes, too bad for them…. guess they will just have to do the PvE they hate so much …. even then, they do not have to unlock everything on the map, just go straight to the location and do whatever required there, surely it’s easier than ramming a gate or capping a camp.

People still treating datamining as fact… sigh.

Also, we don’t know how many hero points HoT is going to give us. Could easily be a sizeable chunk of that. Just because there aren’t many hero points on the map in the beta doesn’t mean much. Wouldn’t be surprised to get a bunch of free points for unlocking your Elite Spec either, to give you a “head start” on learning part of it. For that matter, I seem to recall Anet at some point saying that hero points would be earned through achievements and such as well, and not just map challenges. Though maybe I’m thinking of masteries.

Sylent.3165:

Many people saw on reddit a player based post that you’ll need 175 hero points to unlock elite specs, and skills. And 250 for the special weapon.

The 175 hero points thing HAS to be a joke. Anet knows a strong amount of the playerbase does pvp and wvw only. You pretty much would need map completion to unlock an elite specizalation. A requirement for map completion to unlock one of the biggest things in the expansion would cause a massive drop in the playerbase, to much complaints, to many demands for refunds.

Whoever came up with the 175 does not work for anet, so they have 0 idea how to even unlock the elite specizalation classes. It could even be a special quest you need to do to unlock it. I wouldn’t worry about the 175 points personally. A lot of people do not have map completion and a lot of people never will. They wouldn’t introduce a major selling point for something most people won’t get. So relax. Gw2 is a great game, they wouldn’t kill it on purpose. The elite specizalations will be able to be unlocked by everyone I would imagine fairly easily.

OP, do you know that your name reminds me of Soylent Green, and Soylent Green is people?

Something tells me that the PvP and WvW only people will have to bend over and simply take it, like the raiders were forced to do for years, and the open world supporters are forced to do right now.^^

In what way will this be a problem for PvPers? Do you think they’re going to unlock everything except the elite specs in pvp?

It’s unclear how many ways there will be to get hero points. We know it’s limited in core, but then again, we don’t need more than we automatically get through leveling.

We know that ANet is treating elite specs as “horizontal progression”, i.e. leveling over instead of up. Thus, we shouldn’t expect that most of us can instantly max an elite spec. On the other hand, ANet is aware that plenty of people have five Level 80s and tons of eight or more; it’s hard to imagine they us to complete most of map completion.

Or at least, that’s my hope — that they learned from how unpleasant it was for us to repeat identical challenges on every toon to unlock traits for the nearly 2 years prior to specialization.

In any case, it’s too soon to cry “foul” — we just don’t have the details.

I still wonder why after having all skills before change, after change i had to buy them again… . Anyways, even after that I still got enough to get it from get-go on engineer. Rev will require more work though.

I wonder where people are getting these numbers from. I haven’t seen anything to suggest they’re correct yet.

My main concern, and I understand it may be moot if the datamining has errors in it, is that it seems you have to unlock in order around the circle. So saying “you need X for skills and traits and Y for items so just get enough for X” doesn’t take into account that you must spend the item points along the way.

I’ve been spending an hour or two a day gathering hero points on the necromancer I want to make a Reaper. She has 40 points left to gather out of the 189, plus whatever’s in DT and SW. With 40 more she’ll have 180 banked hero points, as she has full core unlocks. That doesn’t seem like enough to match the datamined requirements.

So I hope there are errors and/or the devs have other ways for us to gather hero points. Right now I’m at:

Thief — 214 HP (he has world completion including WvW)
Mesmer for Fractals — 104 HP
Mesmer for LS — 107 HP
Mesmer for JP’s — 103 HP
Necromancer for Fashion — 101 HP
Necromancer for Reaper — 140 HP
Necromancer for Asura PS — 101 HP
Warrior for RP — 100 HP
Warrior for Male Sylvari Cultural — 103 HP
Guardian for DPS — 104 HP
Guardian for Support — 204 HP (has world completion including WvW)
Engineer to have an 80 of each prof — 100 HP
Ranger to have an 80 of each prof — 101 HP
Elementalist to have an 80 of each prof — 100 HP
and Elementalist to be an RP shill — doesn’t count yet, he’s only 60.

That’s going to be a lot of hours trotting around the maps (and having to go into WvW to get past 180 it seems) to make them all able to use Elite specs if I need to get to 200 each.

Donari.5237:

That’s going to be a lot of hours trotting around the maps (and having to go into WvW to get past 180 it seems) to make them all able to use Elite specs if I need to get to 200 each.

There are 189 Challenges in core map completion and 11 in DT/SW. So, you should not have to get the 13 in WvW. Too bad WvW players can’t say the same about PvE.

It just seems a bit much to have to get them all, on every alt. I don’t mind needing a good chunk of them, I was happy with the 75 figure. Having to gather every single one, though? I think that’s going past my tolerance levels when multiplied by all my alts.

Not that I feel I have to have it on all of them; but even doing it nine times could get daunting. Right now I think I’ll be lucky if I can push myself to have enough for just a couple of elites beyond my already-ready Thief and Guardian, which does cut down on my interest in giving feedback on all the specs in beta.

Well that kittening sucks, I just started a new Thief just for the DD spec and he’s been power leveled via crafting. All my other characters are years old and hopefully have at least 150+. Time to venture out into the world…..thing is I’m going to need to gather probably 100+ HP on my Mes, Engie, Ranger, and Necro along side the thief. GG Anet if this is true…

Maybe we’ll get a merchant to convert spirit shards to hero points? /shrug

Donari.5237:

My main concern, and I understand it may be moot if the datamining has errors in it, is that it seems you have to unlock in order around the circle. So saying “you need X for skills and traits and Y for items so just get enough for X” doesn’t take into account that you must spend the item points along the way.

I’ve been spending an hour or two a day gathering hero points on the necromancer I want to make a Reaper. She has 40 points left to gather out of the 189, plus whatever’s in DT and SW. With 40 more she’ll have 180 banked hero points, as she has full core unlocks. That doesn’t seem like enough to match the datamined requirements.

So I hope there are errors and/or the devs have other ways for us to gather hero points. Right now I’m at:

Thief — 214 HP (he has world completion including WvW)
Mesmer for Fractals — 104 HP
Mesmer for LS — 107 HP
Mesmer for JP’s — 103 HP
Necromancer for Fashion — 101 HP
Necromancer for Reaper — 140 HP
Necromancer for Asura PS — 101 HP
Warrior for RP — 100 HP
Warrior for Male Sylvari Cultural — 103 HP
Guardian for DPS — 104 HP
Guardian for Support — 204 HP (has world completion including WvW)
Engineer to have an 80 of each prof — 100 HP
Ranger to have an 80 of each prof — 101 HP
Elementalist to have an 80 of each prof — 100 HP
and Elementalist to be an RP shill — doesn’t count yet, he’s only 60.

That’s going to be a lot of hours trotting around the maps (and having to go into WvW to get past 180 it seems) to make them all able to use Elite specs if I need to get to 200 each.

why…. do… you have… the same… classes….. multiple… times ugh. How is that fun? 3 necromancers for no reason? they could all be 1. My brain hurts just trying to understand the logic behind this

Where do people come up with these numbers (and then don’t put a source)?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hero_point
1) Unlocking the trait part of a specialization takes 60 points (and that should be the same for the elite, as it’s called elite to differentiate it from the core specializations, not because it’s truly elite)
2) unlocking all skills for a profession takes 98 points. The elite will already have the core skills unlocked so it will be the few utility skills that need to be bought.

Assuming 1 heal, 3 utility and one elite then I’m expecting those to cost 26 points max.
From the wiki
“Healing skill – 2 points
Utility skills – between 2 – 5 points, depending on tier and profession
Elite skills – 9 points (except engineer, 8 points)”

It should take 60 points for the traits on the elite spec then the points for the utility skills (maybe 26). So 86 is a reasonable number to expect based on the past. Not to expect that every single level 80 char do all the PvE hero point challenges.

Elite specs are intended to be a form of advancement, just like WvW ranks are a form of advancement.

What they need to do is let you pay badges for hero points, problem solved. You can advance by normal WvW play.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Donari.5237:

That’s going to be a lot of hours trotting around the maps (and having to go into WvW to get past 180 it seems) to make them all able to use Elite specs if I need to get to 200 each.

There are 189 Challenges in core map completion and 11 in DT/SW. So, you should not have to get the 13 in WvW. Too bad WvW players can’t say the same about PvE.

The issue with WvW was solved with the HP update. You no longer have to do any hero point/skill point challenges to get anything finished for WvW; you just hit 80 and go. This is obviously for the core specs only, but that was all that could possibly be agreed upon. What’s the solution? There is only one that makes sense and even then it shouldn’t be necessary:

Split WvW from PvE completely. Just like sPvP, if they split WvW so that there are no equipment, HP, utility requirements, then they could give all WvWers the elite specs only in WvW. If you want to play PvE though, you gotta do PvE stuff.

Still, this would only be nice if they did it; not necessary.

PopeUrban.2578:

Elite specs are intended to be a form of advancement, just like WvW ranks are a form of advancement.

What they need to do is let you pay badges for hero points, problem solved. You can advance by normal WvW play.

Only if they didn’t carry over to PvE, sure.

MiniEquine.6014:

Only if they didn’t carry over to PvE, sure.

That’s silly.

WvW is now, and always has been the “little bit of both” mode.

They’re not going to change that.

Heck, they completely removed the glory system from sPvP for the same reason. They realized some people actually play multiple types of content and wanted their progress to be more universal. They realized pvp skins you can only wear in pvp were less compelling rewards than skins you can take with you anywhere.

WvW isn’t about fair fights. It’s about massively unfair fights. They even added WxP to make it even MORE unfair because it’s a hybrid game mode that praises both PvP skill and PvE style acquisition of wealth.

Auto-Unlocking anything in WvW only would be counter to what the game mode is all about.

CrassBippy.4619:

why…. do… you have… the same… classes….. multiple… times ugh. How is that fun? 3 necromancers for no reason? they could all be 1. My brain hurts just trying to understand the logic behind this

• Some people like to role play, which means fitting the prof|race|etc to the character, not to the player — easy to end up with 12 guardians (well, not for me — just for some hardcore RPers).
• Some people like to level up and end up with lots of toons. Since there are (currently) only eight profs, overlap can’t be avoided.
• Some people like to have multiples for farming purposes, e.g. I know some people who had 3 guardians just for farming Orr, so that they spent as little time as possible under the effects of DR.
• Some like to have multiples for different roles. For example, one for dungeon running and one for farming. I use some L80s parked near my favorite chain events and/or world bosses.
• Going forward, I imagine some people will like to have to have doubles, so they can run the elite spec and swap to core specs, without having to re-gear.

tl;dr one player’s “fun” is another player’s “illogic” — try not to worry so much about what other people enjoy.

CrassBippy.4619:

why…. do… you have… the same… classes….. multiple… times ugh. How is that fun? 3 necromancers for no reason? they could all be 1. My brain hurts just trying to understand the logic behind this

Making characters is fun for most people. It’s why people spend so much time in character creation. Once you hit a level 80 of each profession and you get the urge to make a new character, you know cause that’s fun, well you have to duplicate.

I have multiple Guardians. One is a Sylvari Guardian that I use for PvE (dungeons, fractals). My other Guardian is human and only hangs out in PvP and WvW. If I wanna do some PvP or WvW on a Guardian, I just switch characters.

CrassBippy.4619:

why…. do… you have… the same… classes….. multiple… times ugh. How is that fun? 3 necromancers for no reason? they could all be 1. My brain hurts just trying to understand the logic behind this

I’m a roleplayer. So, to answer about the necromancers:

Human female. Made originally so I could have all the pretty Light armor. She’s become a philosopher with a strong streak of common sense, a people person who helps her parents run a general store in the Commons when she’s not out doing odd tasks set by her Karate-Kid-ish mentor to deepen her understanding of “the Grenth stuff.”

Sylvari female. Made originally so I could have cultural Light armor. She studies rot and decay with an eye towards stopping attacks on the Mother’s roots. She fits well into a lot of ’vari RP thanks to her acerbic lack of a bedside manner and scientific curiosity about many things, along with a tendency to verbosity.

Asura male. Made originally because I wanted to see the Infinity Ball storyline for lore purposes and my only other Asura had done a different path. Since I like leveling (or did, before NPE), and since he was my only post-NPE character, I then kept going with him so I could see for myself how things had changed.

Each of them has different builds, favored weapons, and personalities. But if I go out into PvE with a necro, the sylvari is the one I’m taking (the human’s bags are full of clothes, the asura is a bit boring thanks to minimal RP) so she’s the one getting the HP right now to get Reaper. Especially since I can see Reaper being in-character for her as she moves on to studying the effects of cold on plant diseases.

It’s not logic, it’s creativity and doing what I find fun in the game, which is making alts. Now, doing the exact same hero challenge runs over and over 14 times? Less fun

PopeUrban.2578:

MiniEquine.6014:

Only if they didn’t carry over to PvE, sure.

That’s silly.

WvW is now, and always has been the “little bit of both” mode.

They’re not going to change that.

Heck, they completely removed the glory system from sPvP for the same reason. They realized some people actually play multiple types of content and wanted their progress to be more universal. They realized pvp skins you can only wear in pvp were less compelling rewards than skins you can take with you anywhere.

WvW isn’t about fair fights. It’s about massively unfair fights. They even added WxP to make it even MORE unfair because it’s a hybrid game mode that praises both PvP skill and PvE style acquisition of wealth.

Auto-Unlocking anything in WvW only would be counter to what the game mode is all about.

It’s not silly because of how Hero Points exist right now. They aren’t a currency like the old skill points were; they’re supposed to be a set amount that has a limit. This isn’t about restricting a class-building tool to a certain game mode; it’s about managing the class-building tool across two different game modes.

Right now, WvWers do not have to worry about any hero points at all so long as they are level 80. They can unlock everything without channeling a single HP. Anet did this because it would have been unfair to take away things they may have already earned. What they have not necessarily earned are the elite specs or the hero points to activate them fully. If a WvWer has enough HP to get the elite spec, good on them; they can use it. If they do not currently have enough, then they can earn the limited class-building tool like the rest of us. If you offer a way for WvW players to convert their tokens to HPs, then you also need to implement a way to make existing HPs worthless if they activate them. Also, tokens are account-bound, so you could WvW on one character for 1000 hours and then get another, new character to max skills without doing a single challenge or putting any effort into them at all. This is currently impossible in PvE.

I don’t think that’s the direction Anet went with the skill point changes.

I seriously doubt that hero points will remain a limited quantity going forward. They’re a leveling and unlocking mechanism. They separated them from shards so that the currency used to unlock skills and traits didn’t compete with the currency to get stuff from miyani.

PopeUrban.2578:

I seriously doubt that hero points will remain a limited quantity going forward. They’re a leveling and unlocking mechanism. They separated them from shards so that the currency used to unlock skills and traits didn’t compete with the currency to get stuff from miyani.

Unless they have changed what they said, the intent of Hero Points was to be a limited resource because it didn’t need to be an unlimited one. As they released new expansions and elite specializations, they would release new Hero Points. By the time the final expansion is released you should, in theory, have exactly 0 Hero Points if you have everything unlocked.

That is, of course, if nothing changed since they revealed the update.

They currently have literally no purpose aside from unlocking your traits and skills, so Anet would need to provide a sink for them if they are unlimited.

MiniEquine.6014:

PopeUrban.2578:

I seriously doubt that hero points will remain a limited quantity going forward. They’re a leveling and unlocking mechanism. They separated them from shards so that the currency used to unlock skills and traits didn’t compete with the currency to get stuff from miyani.

Unless they have changed what they said, the intent of Hero Points was to be a limited resource because it didn’t need to be an unlimited one. As they released new expansions and elite specializations, they would release new Hero Points. By the time the final expansion is released you should, in theory, have exactly 0 Hero Points if you have everything unlocked.

That is, of course, if nothing changed since they revealed the update.

They currently have literally no purpose aside from unlocking your traits and skills, so Anet would need to provide a sink for them if they are unlimited.

They already provide far more hero points than necessary to unlock all of your skills and traits through the process of leveling and doing challenges.

As of right now my main character has 214 unspent hero points with nothing to spend them on.

Suggesting that unlocking everything would require going back and doing every piece of unrelated content is kind of silly. The “overflow” hero points exist so that players have choices about what they do to gain them, not to require them to do only specific content.

The overflow just serves as a leg up when new skills or specs are released.

PopeUrban.2578:

They already provide far more hero points than necessary to unlock all of your skills and traits through the process of leveling and doing challenges.

The point of the OP is that the game currently does not make it easy to unlock all skills & traits for the elite specializations on day one. (I’m not saying I agree it’s a problem, just that the OP worries that we’ll need 175-250 points, a lot more than a lot of people have, especially those who stick to WvW and/or have a ton of alts.)

edit: clarity & grammar

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

PopeUrban.2578:

They already provide far more hero points than necessary to unlock all of your skills and traits through the process of leveling and doing challenges.

The point of the OP is that the game currently does not make it easy to unlock all skills & traits for the elite specializations on day one. (I’m not saying I agree it’s a problem, just that the OP worries that we’ll need 175-250 points, a lot more than a lot of people have, especially those who stick to WvW and/or have a ton of alts.)

edit: clarity & grammar

Which is why I suggested offering a way to buy hero points for badges. Scroll up, I elaborated on that idea a little more.

Just offer a reward in WvW that can be used to buy hero points, or make them integrated into various activites in wvw as normal rewards.