Guild Wars 2

Just wanted to mention this in a separate topic before it gets merged (probably): “250 is a better decision for WvW/GvG and intermediate to casual players.”
Sorry hardcore PvE players, but you’re no the only community in this game.

Yet, I still think that it can be even less than 250 but, fine, I will take that new change.

Thanks Anet again,
Sincerely,
WvW and GvG player

Let’s face it, Anet didn’t cave in because there was a few whiners, there was a 3K long post here and another on reddit. That’s a lot of negative feed back. Plus they didn’t cave and say here you go…you still have to get 250HP per character and I can tell you there’s tons of people who haven’t done world complete. In fact I know people who only do WvW and haven’t touched PvE.

1) 400 is not too much to do in order to unlock your elite… ONCE

2) The better solution is if 200HP were awarded to each alt after your main hits 400.

This way you’d still have to earn it the hard way once but not nine times… or more.

I totally agree. THEY SHOULD LEAVE IT AS IT IS. just because a few people kick up a stink they change it? what about all the people that were just happily playing the game. grow some balls Aent. You’ll lose my respect doing this change.

Leamas.5803:

Mind you, I’m more excited for the map population fix. The maps are often too sparsely populated and you end up wait around a lot for some of the group content like the Creeping Crevasse hero point.

Same. The lack of players in these areas full of hard hitting 1 and 2 shot k.o. monsters makes it frustrating to achieve things when you’re trying to run past an area and just get instantly killed, but there’s power in numbers, and hopefully with more populated maps we’ll be able to get things done faster and with less frustration

Thank you Anet, now I can finally enjoy new spec on numbers of my characters, it still requires work for a character that doesnt have high world completion but its very reasonable now. And yes the main point of this change is that a lot of players like me was expecting to play through new content with new elites not with those base classes that im already bored of playing with after hundreds of hours.

Silverstone.4539:

I totally agree. THEY SHOULD LEAVE IT AS IT IS. just because a few people kick up a stink they change it? what about all the people that were just happily playing the game. grow some balls Aent. You’ll lose my respect doing this change.

Ah yes, but they will not lose me and I’m sure many others as customers, so IMO it becomes a good decision.

Keikami.6247:

Agent Noun.7350:

Keikami.6247:

I’m 10 points away from maxing a Tempest… now I feel like my effort has been trivialized.

If it helps, you’ll get those points back and have a 150-point head start on maxing the next elite spec that comes out (like players who did core Tyria completion had a 200-point head start with this crop).

YAY? I get to wait 3 more years for this magical head start that everyone’s going to complain about then too? Just feel like my effort is unrewarded…

you can have either empty maps and your grind fest or players in the maps and compromise on this one issue. you can’t have both.

Silverstone.4539:

I totally agree. THEY SHOULD LEAVE IT AS IT IS. just because a few people kick up a stink they change it? what about all the people that were just happily playing the game. grow some balls Aent. You’ll lose my respect doing this change.

Gotchaz.7865:

Let’s face it, Anet didn’t cave in because there was a few whiners, there was a 3K long post here and another on reddit. That’s a lot of negative feed back. Plus they didn’t cave and say here you go…you still have to get 250HP per character and I can tell you there’s tons of people who haven’t done world complete. In fact I know people who only do WvW and haven’t touched PvE.

“Few people” Ha… Kitten

Boohoo pvers crying because they want other people to suffer through the grind they did. Glad they lowered the requirement to be somewhat reasonable, still a tad sharp in my eyes…. Should be separated into a trait track and a utility track so you can focus on one or the other.

Silverstone.4539:

I totally agree. THEY SHOULD LEAVE IT AS IT IS. just because a few people kick up a stink they change it? what about all the people that were just happily playing the game. grow some balls Aent. You’ll lose my respect doing this change.

as i said just do your own challenge mode and dont completly unlock your elite until you reached 400 hp by your own…

—> you are happy and others also that they only need 250 hp now

We’ll see in two weeks, when everyone has their elite spec… And don’t say “Elite spec” is not supposed to be Elite, because it’s, it’s supposed to be something that you have to work for it, as if you were training it, but the problem with Anet is that they can’t deal with the players, so their awnser is always a nerf and in a month people will start complaining that they are out of content already, it’s not because you don’t have time or patiente to train that those who have it, have to deal with a nerfed content.
So if you decided to rush the old content, it’s not our fault. I was playing for what I paid for.

250 is miles better than 400.
I really don’t understand why people want this artificial number to stop other people from having fun.
This is a new playstyle for our professions, not some bar you fill up to satisfy yourself.
Besides, what’s the point of having a high requirement when it means you’ll have to run through the content anyways, WITHOUT that new playstyle you wanted?

Bhima.9518:

PopeUrban.2578:

Runiir.6425:

As has been said multiple times, don’t call it elite. It is not “elite”. Elite is a title given to an alpha class, as in…if you are a reaper you will slaughter every single individual in PvP that isn’t also an elite of some kind without even trying. THAT is elite. This is nothing more than another option, that frankly shouldn’t cost a single HP more than any other spec line.

It’s not elite because it makes you OP. It’s elite because of the level of what it grants you compared to core specs. It’s elite because you would be OP if you could take two of them at the same time.

It’s an “elite specialization” not a “specialization that makes you elite”

Again, this doesn’t make any sense since, well… we have no idea what future specializations will look like, nor do we know if, when they do come, we will be able to take the new spec and a spec from HoT. I ask you, what does the new spec grant you compared to the core specs BESIDES just another way to play your class?

The fact that it does add so much in terms of a different way to play your class is exactly what makes it elite.

That is functionality that core specs simply don’t have. Core specs slightly alter the core class. Elite specs radically change it and offer options that are simply not there without them.

We do know, exactly that the reason for making the distinction between core and elite specs was because we can’t take two at once, as it allows them to add mechanics or weapons that would be unbalanced if you could take two, and means they are much easier to balance and add interesting effects to future specs.

For example, take the dragonhunter’s traps. If a future elite spec grants guardians a series of shadowstep utilities, allowing the guardian to have both traps, a 1200 range weapon, and shadowsteps on their bar would be a balance problem, effectively creating a combination of effects that would be completely unbalanced and preventing them from adding that sort of mechanics in a guardian spec.

The single spec system is also part of the reason elite specs can make changes to core mechanics. You couldn’t really design two elite specs that both replace death shroud.

It’s very similar to the elite skill slot in many ways. It is a balanced, but powerful option. Powerful enough that stacking it would be OP, but not so powerful that taking only one would overshadow all other options.

this is reasonable, I don’t feel anyone losing anything here, the map is still chellenging

I don’t. It’s going to allow me to enjoy the game a lot more.

Copestetic.5174:

Tommyknocker.6089:

According to the wiki in base Tyria:

“There are 214 points available if you have the Krait Obelisk Shard in your home instance”

This means you still have to do some of the jungle to unlock your specialization. Sorry but I see no problem with this AT ALL.

My Warrior and Guardian both had over 200 HP’s left prior to HoT ( World Completion ). It’s pathetic that to max out an ELITE specialization I have to do what? 5 Hero Challenges? lol

ArenaNet, you need to stop caving in.

Oh my, poor you – had you played WvW and spent a ton of your points for Superior Siege you would now be where all those not 100% completers are … I really like your altruistic attitude. ^^

MomentOS.2831:

I agree, suddenly my feeling of accomplishment with my Reaper is suddenly removed. Everyone and their mother will be wearing the hood I worked so hard for and overcame challenges they could not apparently. The only change I had wished for was to make the elite spec when once unlocked, account wide for those like myself with multiples of the same class.

How exactly does it take away from what you “worked” for? You still earned it, did you not? Or do you actually mean the bragging rights?
If people had done it your way, it still would been “everyone and their mother” with them, just farther down the road…..so either way was going to be the same result.

HtFde.3856:

Copestetic.5174:

Tommyknocker.6089:

According to the wiki in base Tyria:

“There are 214 points available if you have the Krait Obelisk Shard in your home instance”

This means you still have to do some of the jungle to unlock your specialization. Sorry but I see no problem with this AT ALL.

My Warrior and Guardian both had over 200 HP’s left prior to HoT ( World Completion ). It’s pathetic that to max out an ELITE specialization I have to do what? 5 Hero Challenges? lol

ArenaNet, you need to stop caving in.

Oh my, poor you – had you played WvW and spent a ton of your points for Superior Siege you would now be where all those not 100% completers are … I really like your altruistic attitude. ^^

This… I hadn’t even thought about the implications of people who hadn’t unlocked skills because they spent their points otherwise, but this change could’ve really screwed someone if they hadn’t known about the change in advance… Which would include a lot of WvW’ers who have been inactive in the recent months.

Agreed, thank you Anet.

It really is only a big change for people who already had base tyria complete. If your on an alt or a new roll that’s still 25 hero challenges you need to do. As time goes by and map population thins out this means people will still have a chance to unlock the spec on the few challenges you can solo. It’s a good change for now and the future.

After doing it the hard way and finishing a full 400hp on one character.

I suggest reducing it down to 300hp. This is the sweet spot

joric.1042:

250 HP is reasonable.

The amount is – in my oppinion – immaterial. It’s the way are are gathered – that method still sucks. I’d have much preferred to have a flat XP curve that would give you a HP once the bar is filled and have the HP challenges (just like in the pre-HoT game) be a means of speeding HP acquisition up and a means for map completitionists.

Zaron.1987:

Silverstone.4539:

I totally agree. THEY SHOULD LEAVE IT AS IT IS. just because a few people kick up a stink they change it? what about all the people that were just happily playing the game. grow some balls Aent. You’ll lose my respect doing this change.

as i said just do your own challenge mode and dont completly unlock your elite until you reached 400 hp by your own…

—> you are happy and others also that they only need 250 hp now

I’d assume while many will be unhappy at this change for valid reasons that I can also concur with just as many if not more are just angry they wasted the last few days burning through this content or farming CoF so they could feel superior to the more “casual” player.

Fact remains Anet has to prioritize potentially bad press and consequent effect on sales over a handful of “hardcore” player egos.

Great move for everyone if they took the time to actually think about it but yeah, it’s optional anyway. It’s not like they handed out legendaries.

To those that are crying foul and are touting that they did the full 400 point unlock within the first weekend:

Thank you for showing us who has no life and should NOT be listened to. Players went to Guild Wars because of the laid back and enjoyable playing experience. Guild Wars worked VERY WELL for us gamers that have REAL LIVES and families. Guild Wars 2 for the most part continues that.

You are not “Gamers,” you are self absorbed children that never grew up and never had parents that taught you responsibility. Video games are NOT a career unless you are making them. Learn responsibility and get a job that actually requires you to commit to it. You know, the type of career that you can’t take days off whenever you feel like it. Then try playing video games.

250 points is an excellent middle ground. Characters that did World Completion before WvW was removed will have less to do, but Characters after the change will have more to do.

HtFde.3856:

joric.1042:

250 HP is reasonable.

The amount is – in my oppinion – immaterial. It’s the way are are gathered – that method still sucks. I’d have much preferred to have a flat XP curve that would give you a HP once the bar is filled and have the HP (just like in the pre-HoT game) be a means of speeding HP acquisition up and a means for map completitionists.

So, like a “General heroics” mastry that basically did what the wvw books do every time it rolled over, and just repeated level 1.

I can dig that. Choose to either put your xp toward masteries or hero points. I would limit it to core hero points though, as after the change those 5 remaining masteries are now the intended “minimum HoT requirement”

That would give people the ability to do a short stint on 10 point challenges, and get enough through “general heroics” to unlock one elite spec, which seems reasonable ina world of multiple elite specs where you have an alt that you don’t really care about having more options than one build.

PopeUrban.2578:

The fact that it does add so much in terms of a different way to play your class is exactly what makes it elite.

That is functionality that core specs simply don’t have. Core specs slightly alter the core class. Elite specs radically change it and offer options that are simply not there without them.

Gotta take all of this in context because, there are a lot of things here to parse. First, there are PLENTY of core specs that play drastically different from one another. I gave you the example of a staff ele spec versus a dagger/dagger ele spec. They play very differently, using different traits, weapons, heals and utilities. As does a bunker guardian versus a zerker meditation one. The reason why its easy for us to disregard the diversity we already have available is because we’ve had this exact same diversity for the past 3 years. That is a VERY long time to have played basically the same specs for, and the balance patches have made some changes here or there over the years, but have not fundamentally changed how the classes play.

I mean, take WoW as an example. There was a 2 year gap between Vanilla WoW and the Burning Crusade. Right before the xpac dropped, Blizzard fundamentally changed a hell of a lot of things about how each class played. In GW2, we’ve been playing with the same mechanics for about 3 years… that is a VERY long time to be playing the same systems. This I think is the reason you and others feel these elite specs are so special. And they are special simply because they are a long overdue, much needed injection of gameplay diversity. That doesn’t mean the older specs aren’t already diverse, they have just been played to death for the past 3 years is all.

Yes thank you. Stuff

There is nothing difficult or challenging about time consuming content. All it requires is your patience with repeating the same content over and over until you get something. I know being patient is difficult for some of you, and that somehow makes it challenging content, but for the vast majority of us, here is a message :::

Get a life

tokyoshoe.6308:

Do we know yet if already invested HP #’s will be recalculated? Or is this just a cost decrease on stuff you have not bought yet.. moving forward?

Doesn’t change anything since they are soulbound. You’ll just end up with extra useless HP. Anyway this means I have to rank up 50-75 times in WvW for all my 7 other class… Still gonna take years…

Bhima.9518:

PopeUrban.2578:

The fact that it does add so much in terms of a different way to play your class is exactly what makes it elite.

That is functionality that core specs simply don’t have. Core specs slightly alter the core class. Elite specs radically change it and offer options that are simply not there without them.

Gotta take all of this in context because, there are a lot of things here to parse. First, there are PLENTY of core specs that play drastically different from one another. I gave you the example of a staff ele spec versus a dagger/dagger ele spec. They play very differently, using different traits, weapons, heals and utilities. As does a bunker guardian versus a zerker meditation one. The reason why its easy for us to disregard the diversity we already have available is because we’ve had this exact same diversity for the past 3 years. That is a VERY long time to have played basically the same specs for, and the balance patches have made some changes here or there over the years, but have not fundamentally changed how the classes play.

I mean, take WoW as an example. There was a 2 year gap between Vanilla WoW and the Burning Crusade. Right before the xpac dropped, Blizzard fundamentally changed a hell of a lot of things about how each class played. In GW2, we’ve been playing with the same mechanics for about 3 years… that is a VERY long time to be playing the same systems. This I think is the reason you and others feel these elite specs are so special. And they are special simply because they are a long overdue, much needed injection of gameplay diversity. That doesn’t mean the older specs aren’t already diverse, they have just been played to death for the past 3 years is all.

Right, however a staff ele doesn’t need those traits to simply equip a staff, use utilities, use an elite, or use attunements. Those things all work exactly the same with minor buffs to extra conditions, effects, etc. no matter what three core lines you take. You don’t need to trait fire attunement to use fire attunement, or even for fire attunement to be decently effective on a given build. You don’t need to trait for staff for staff to be decent at doing the job it does.

Taking those traits to build a staff or d/d ele doesn’t fundamentally change the elementalist playstyle. You can run d/d on a staff trait build and you still get, aside from the staff trait itself, a completely usable package of benefits.

They make it more efficient, but it’s still only a slight alteration compared to "now you have these new mechanics, a new weapon, and new skills, but the catch is you can’t combine them with other such packages.

It has a much larger effect on the build than taking an existing spec, as existing specs, once learned, are either traits or lines of skills, not both plus a weapon.

I’m rather sad that they’ve reduced it already. It’s only a few days into the expansion. A thread with a lot of responses in it does not mean it’s a majority by any stretch. Those that weren’t busy complaining on the forums were actually playing the game and have our elite specialization maxed out already (I was well over halfway before HoT).

I am an altaholic however, so this change is nice for my other classes, but I accepted the grind well beforehand and I was fine with it.

I’m disappointed Arenanet. I’m glad that you’re responding to feedback, but giving in so soon into your expansion was probably not the best idea. We’ll see how it turns out. And obviously I have faith in you. I’m still here.

You’re starting to act like Blizzard…please don’t become them. I miss the old ‘get good’ attitude you guys had at one point. Turn back, act like the gaming company I and the majority of your community have come to respect and love.

reality is, you will need those extra hero points when the 2nd… 3rd elite specs drop.

PopeUrban.2578:

Bhima.9518:

PopeUrban.2578:

The fact that it does add so much in terms of a different way to play your class is exactly what makes it elite.

That is functionality that core specs simply don’t have. Core specs slightly alter the core class. Elite specs radically change it and offer options that are simply not there without them.

Gotta take all of this in context because, there are a lot of things here to parse. First, there are PLENTY of core specs that play drastically different from one another. I gave you the example of a staff ele spec versus a dagger/dagger ele spec. They play very differently, using different traits, weapons, heals and utilities. As does a bunker guardian versus a zerker meditation one. The reason why its easy for us to disregard the diversity we already have available is because we’ve had this exact same diversity for the past 3 years. That is a VERY long time to have played basically the same specs for, and the balance patches have made some changes here or there over the years, but have not fundamentally changed how the classes play.

I mean, take WoW as an example. There was a 2 year gap between Vanilla WoW and the Burning Crusade. Right before the xpac dropped, Blizzard fundamentally changed a hell of a lot of things about how each class played. In GW2, we’ve been playing with the same mechanics for about 3 years… that is a VERY long time to be playing the same systems. This I think is the reason you and others feel these elite specs are so special. And they are special simply because they are a long overdue, much needed injection of gameplay diversity. That doesn’t mean the older specs aren’t already diverse, they have just been played to death for the past 3 years is all.

Right, however a staff ele doesn’t need those traits to simply equip a staff, use utilities, use an elite, or use attunements. Those things all work exactly the same with minor buffs to extra conditions, effects, etc. no matter what three core lines you take. You don’t need to trait fire attunement to use fire attunement, or even for fire attunement to be decently effective on a given build. You don’t need to trait for staff for staff to be decent at doing the job it does.

Taking those traits to build a staff or d/d ele doesn’t fundamentally change the elementalist playstyle. You can run d/d on a staff trait build and you still get, aside from the staff trait itself, a completely usable package of benefits.

They make it more efficient, but it’s still only a slight alteration compared to "now you have these new mechanics, a new weapon, and new skills, but the catch is you can’t combine them with other such packages.

It has a much larger effect on the build than taking an existing spec, as existing specs, once learned, are either traits or lines of skills, not both plus a weapon.

The mechanics of dagger/dagger gameplay are VERY different than zerker staff. While you CAN play dagger/dagger even with a zerker staff build, it will feel extremely clunky, as you will not be able to swap attunements easily and you won’t have the Evasive Arcana mechanic (which, I would argue is just as fundamental to dagger/dagger play as Overload is for Tempest). Likewise, you can play a zerker staff with a dagger/dagger build, but it will feel VERY suboptimal since, for the most part you just camp fire with other attunements used as extremely situational.

Again, I think most of the same-y feel of the original core specs is simply a casualty of the amount of time we’ve already played them.

Kill.3458:

Lol white knights getting kittened cause the “vocal minority” got their way. Smh

From reading a few of these threads I’d add content burners and CoF farmers to that list. Most of the people I’ve seen complaining already have it. I don’t comparatively see many complaints from players 1/2 way through who were “enjoying” the ride thus far.

Dudes who spent the last few days grinding CoF and charging through the whole expansion will be kittened they can’t stand around laughing at all the “scrubs”…..good job. Go grind a legendary or something.

I’m hyped, was going to hold off on the expac, lot of great games coming out atm, but this just shot straight back to the top of my list and I’ll happily grab it full price as opposed to waiting on a discounted one now.

Chrispy.5641:

There is nothing difficult or challenging about time consuming content. All it requires is your patience with repeating the same content over and over until you get something. I know being patient is difficult for some of you, and that somehow makes it challenging content, but for the vast majority of us, here is a message :::

Get a life

Umm…

We do have lives, that is why it got lowered so we can enjoy the game in our down time.

You might want to check and see if your life is missing something if you can sit and grind on a game for hours on end. Eventually your parents will kick the bucket and if they know you just play games all day, they are not leaving you the house. It will be the last life lesson they can teach you, Getting a life.

I can’t even start to understand people that actually are against that change. Those people that unlocked it in 14 hours or a few days and are bragging about it, have done actually less work than most new players will do. Which is also no accomplishment if you did in 14 hours or a few days, because as many say: ’It’s not actually as challenging as people say’ So where is the accomplishment in it then if it’s no challenge?

I for myself would have needed only 1-2 days on my thief to unlock it, because I got a kickstart from playing 2 years only Thief.
But since Daredevil doesn’t appeal to me as much as Reaper, I switched. Didn’t even have enough points to unlock the spec (the 60 in the beginning) and had to repeatedly do the same events, just to learn things to get to hero points. Which, to be honest, wasn’t all to bad, but I felt very frustrated at some points and just logged off.

Now with the 250 points only, I’ll actually get the Reaper fully unlocked once the patch comes out. (Being at roughly 65% now). And my god will this change alot of things in terms of fun.
And there’s still the usual challenge, which are the new mobs, soon raids and higher fractal levels. I really don’t get this huge arguement about the change. It’s stupid.

So, thank you ArenaNet.

Why do the people who think this is a bad change act like getting elite spec is difficult or that it’s an accomplishment? It’s really not. There is no challenge there, i have my elite spec and i feel no accomplishment because it wasn’t hard at all, so the change makes no difference.

Stop being delusional thinking you have some superiority for doing a boring and slightly tedious task when it was more boring and tedious.

Bhima.9518:

PopeUrban.2578:

Bhima.9518:

PopeUrban.2578:

The fact that it does add so much in terms of a different way to play your class is exactly what makes it elite.

That is functionality that core specs simply don’t have. Core specs slightly alter the core class. Elite specs radically change it and offer options that are simply not there without them.

Gotta take all of this in context because, there are a lot of things here to parse. First, there are PLENTY of core specs that play drastically different from one another. I gave you the example of a staff ele spec versus a dagger/dagger ele spec. They play very differently, using different traits, weapons, heals and utilities. As does a bunker guardian versus a zerker meditation one. The reason why its easy for us to disregard the diversity we already have available is because we’ve had this exact same diversity for the past 3 years. That is a VERY long time to have played basically the same specs for, and the balance patches have made some changes here or there over the years, but have not fundamentally changed how the classes play.

I mean, take WoW as an example. There was a 2 year gap between Vanilla WoW and the Burning Crusade. Right before the xpac dropped, Blizzard fundamentally changed a hell of a lot of things about how each class played. In GW2, we’ve been playing with the same mechanics for about 3 years… that is a VERY long time to be playing the same systems. This I think is the reason you and others feel these elite specs are so special. And they are special simply because they are a long overdue, much needed injection of gameplay diversity. That doesn’t mean the older specs aren’t already diverse, they have just been played to death for the past 3 years is all.

Right, however a staff ele doesn’t need those traits to simply equip a staff, use utilities, use an elite, or use attunements. Those things all work exactly the same with minor buffs to extra conditions, effects, etc. no matter what three core lines you take. You don’t need to trait fire attunement to use fire attunement, or even for fire attunement to be decently effective on a given build. You don’t need to trait for staff for staff to be decent at doing the job it does.

Taking those traits to build a staff or d/d ele doesn’t fundamentally change the elementalist playstyle. You can run d/d on a staff trait build and you still get, aside from the staff trait itself, a completely usable package of benefits.

They make it more efficient, but it’s still only a slight alteration compared to "now you have these new mechanics, a new weapon, and new skills, but the catch is you can’t combine them with other such packages.

It has a much larger effect on the build than taking an existing spec, as existing specs, once learned, are either traits or lines of skills, not both plus a weapon.

The mechanics of dagger/dagger gameplay are VERY different than zerker staff. While you CAN play dagger/dagger even with a zerker staff build, it will feel extremely clunky, as you will not be able to swap attunements easily and you won’t have the Evasive Arcana mechanic (which, I would argue is just as fundamental to dagger/dagger play as Overload is for Tempest). Likewise, you can play a zerker staff with a dagger/dagger build, but it will feel VERY suboptimal since, for the most part you just camp fire with other attunements used as extremely situational.

Again, I think most of the same-y feel of the original core specs is simply a casualty of the amount of time we’ve already played them.

I understand your viewpoint, but it is from a backward-looking lens, while what I’m saying is more from a forward-looking one. I feel that once there are two choices for elite specs, the overall goals of the system will be much more clear to people. When you have to choose between overloads or, say, attunements being replaced with “aspects” of only one element with out of combat selection between them and maybe a sword, the impact of the elite spec system will be more apperant.

Tempest, and to some extent Daredevil are weak examples of of the elite spec system. They aren’t really build-defining specs. Looking at something like dragonhunter or druid however gives a much clearer picture of what separates an elite from a core spec. These add not only builds, but entire playstyles unavaliable to the base class without them, meaning that the next spec options will be a very meaningful choice compared to their core trait line choices.

Honestly I feel like the expansion would have been better if they simply had spent the time to develop revnant better and released with no new classes and two elite specs per class. Rev is really only a grab bag of mechanics that would have worked mostly fine as elite specs for existing classes anyway, and It’s my personal opinion that releases intended to “expand” a game should be less about requiring you to start it over again and more about actually expanding upon existing characters and content.

Thank you anet! My alts are so happy!

Oh kitten , “Its too much”, “its too little”… whats wrong with you people?

Gotchaz.7865:

Let’s face it, Anet didn’t cave in because there was a few whiners, there was a 3K long post here and another on reddit. That’s a lot of negative feed back. Plus they didn’t cave and say here you go…you still have to get 250HP per character and I can tell you there’s tons of people who haven’t done world complete. In fact I know people who only do WvW and haven’t touched PvE.

I can give you a list for threads on this board that long they completely ignored. This may come as a blow to people’s grotesques self-importance but thread size is NOT a driving force for change.

Personally I’m content either way. It’s was doable before, it’s more easily doable after. I don’t feel like Elite specs should make people feel like a special snowflake, but I didn’t think they were that hard to unlock either.

PopeUrban.2578:

Bhima.9518:

PopeUrban.2578:

Bhima.9518:

PopeUrban.2578:

The fact that it does add so much in terms of a different way to play your class is exactly what makes it elite.

That is functionality that core specs simply don’t have. Core specs slightly alter the core class. Elite specs radically change it and offer options that are simply not there without them.

Gotta take all of this in context because, there are a lot of things here to parse. First, there are PLENTY of core specs that play drastically different from one another. I gave you the example of a staff ele spec versus a dagger/dagger ele spec. They play very differently, using different traits, weapons, heals and utilities. As does a bunker guardian versus a zerker meditation one. The reason why its easy for us to disregard the diversity we already have available is because we’ve had this exact same diversity for the past 3 years. That is a VERY long time to have played basically the same specs for, and the balance patches have made some changes here or there over the years, but have not fundamentally changed how the classes play.

I mean, take WoW as an example. There was a 2 year gap between Vanilla WoW and the Burning Crusade. Right before the xpac dropped, Blizzard fundamentally changed a hell of a lot of things about how each class played. In GW2, we’ve been playing with the same mechanics for about 3 years… that is a VERY long time to be playing the same systems. This I think is the reason you and others feel these elite specs are so special. And they are special simply because they are a long overdue, much needed injection of gameplay diversity. That doesn’t mean the older specs aren’t already diverse, they have just been played to death for the past 3 years is all.

Right, however a staff ele doesn’t need those traits to simply equip a staff, use utilities, use an elite, or use attunements. Those things all work exactly the same with minor buffs to extra conditions, effects, etc. no matter what three core lines you take. You don’t need to trait fire attunement to use fire attunement, or even for fire attunement to be decently effective on a given build. You don’t need to trait for staff for staff to be decent at doing the job it does.

Taking those traits to build a staff or d/d ele doesn’t fundamentally change the elementalist playstyle. You can run d/d on a staff trait build and you still get, aside from the staff trait itself, a completely usable package of benefits.

They make it more efficient, but it’s still only a slight alteration compared to "now you have these new mechanics, a new weapon, and new skills, but the catch is you can’t combine them with other such packages.

It has a much larger effect on the build than taking an existing spec, as existing specs, once learned, are either traits or lines of skills, not both plus a weapon.

The mechanics of dagger/dagger gameplay are VERY different than zerker staff. While you CAN play dagger/dagger even with a zerker staff build, it will feel extremely clunky, as you will not be able to swap attunements easily and you won’t have the Evasive Arcana mechanic (which, I would argue is just as fundamental to dagger/dagger play as Overload is for Tempest). Likewise, you can play a zerker staff with a dagger/dagger build, but it will feel VERY suboptimal since, for the most part you just camp fire with other attunements used as extremely situational.

Again, I think most of the same-y feel of the original core specs is simply a casualty of the amount of time we’ve already played them.

I understand your viewpoint, but it is from a backward-looking lens, while what I’m saying is more from a forward-looking one.

Honestly I feel like the expansion would have been better if they simply had spent the time to develop revnant better and released with no new classes and two elite specs per class. Rev is really only a grab bag of mechanics that would have worked mostly fine as elite specs for existing classes anyway, and It’s my personal opinion that releases intended to “expand” a game should be less about requiring you to start it over again and more about actually expanding upon existing characters and content.

I think most of the new specs are sort of a grab bag of mechanics already in the game. Its just how they are implemented that make them feel new, fresh and fun. Also, the Revenant’s legend system/energy system feels very fluid. It feels like a version 2.0 class for this game, at least to me.

But yeah, if the option was two new specs per class or one spec per class and the Rev, I’d take two new specs ANY day.

Destram.8651:

Stop being delusional thinking you have some superiority for doing a boring and slightly tedious task when it was more boring and tedious.

^This

Good change, 250 is reasonable.

Well what will casuals cry out next? Raids too hard? No problemo lets nerf it… It took like like 3 hours to get those 400 points what was so kitten that? I srsly hope this was very last step back thx to buckets of tears.

In fairness, they didn’t change it so much because it was hard, but because they inadvertently mislead us~

“When we ran our beta events for Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns, we allowed everyone to instantly access fully unlocked elite specializations with all their skills and abilities so we could get balance and gameplay feedback on them. We’d also always said you’d need to unlock your elite specialization, but we were never explicit on the details of how characters do this and the hero-point costs associated. We always viewed the elite specialization as one of the major rewards in expansion—but between the betas and lack of unlock info, we didn’t do a great job properly aligning expectations on how your elite specialization is earned. This left some players in a position where they expected to have their elite specialization very early on (or immediately!) in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns. Our goal was always to have elite specializations as a part of character progression, but it’s clear that a segment of our players was so excited about the elite specialization system and abilities that they really wanted to experience most of the expansion with them unlocked.”

Raids OTOH aren’t even close to as hard as they lead us to expect, soe maybe those will get tougher .

What I think they should do is keep it at 400 points but separate the traits from the new utilities. You spend the 60 points to unlock the elite spec and have separate tracks for traits and utlities. So each trait is 15 points meaning it would be 180 points to cap the traits, so everyone can have their traits for their build but that would leave the remaining 160 needed for the heal, utilities and elite. Still costs 400 points, but more flexible in how you unlock it.

Oh thank god. When will this be patched

Please remember that to max out the elite spec, it requires both a lvl 80 and every hero point in core, which is almost map completion. That not a small effort. And then you have to do 4 hero challenges in HoT, very few of which that can be solo’d. Many of the ones that can be solo’d require a mastery to get to. And you have to get that on every character you want to use an elite on.

So, getting 250 points (beyond the points you use to max out all of your core specializations, which you have to do first) is not a walk in the park, nor is it something that “just happens” as a part of other game play. It is an effort! So I don’t think it cheapens it at all. Rather, it’s now a great reward for someone who has put in a lot of work on a character. And then if they want to use it on other characters, they have to do all of that work again.