Guild Wars 2

+1 Thank
you for showing us the facts number don’t lie.

Nice chart. Thanks for sharing.

Awesome comparison

MonoSodiumGlutamate.4217:

+1 Thank
you for showing us the facts number don’t lie.

Need to take into account the context.
Gw1 and Gw2 are two very different games.

butch.8136:

MonoSodiumGlutamate.4217:

+1 Thank
you for showing us the facts number don’t lie.

Need to take into account the context.
Gw1 and Gw2 are two very different games.

of course there is someone talking about context, same company same stuff they got lazy and greedy.

MarkoNS.3261:

butch.8136:

MonoSodiumGlutamate.4217:

+1 Thank
you for showing us the facts number don’t lie.

Need to take into account the context.
Gw1 and Gw2 are two very different games.

of course there is someone talking about context, same company same stuff they got lazy and greedy.

You literally cannot ignore context. To do so would be extremely foolish. Taking context into consideration doesn’t release Anet from their need to supply a game that their consumers will want to buy, but it does have an affect on the perspective.

Did the previous GW1 expansions or stand-alones come with content patches too, or is this what came with them out of the box? I don’t recall too many games back then with huge content patches, but I could be mistaken on this. Either way, HoT will have more content released over time, so this chart would have to be updated in kind. We’re also still not sure what goes in that “raid/dungeons” slot. Something will, and I hope they release that information soon, even if it is bare bones for now. Nobody knows at all what to expect with it.

Also they’ve officially announced that there will be more than one zone. I’d recommend changing “1 Zone” to “Unknown Multiple Zones” tbh.

edit: Also Nightfall & GW:EN both introduced the Hero system for anybody who bought either or

I thought the new PvP Map, the new WvW map and the new guild halls will be available also to players that did not by HoT. Am I wrong?

Zok.4956:

I thought the new PvP Map, the new WvW map and the new guild halls will be available also to players that did not by HoT. Am I wrong?

Guild halls are located in the Jungle, so I’m not sure how this would work for those without the expansion. The PvP and WvW maps are included, so far as I know.

MiniEquine.6014:

MarkoNS.3261:

butch.8136:

MonoSodiumGlutamate.4217:

+1 Thank
you for showing us the facts number don’t lie.

Need to take into account the context.
Gw1 and Gw2 are two very different games.

of course there is someone talking about context, same company same stuff they got lazy and greedy.

You literally cannot ignore context. To do so would be extremely foolish. Taking context into consideration doesn’t release Anet from their need to supply a game that their consumers will want to buy, but it does have an affect on the perspective.

Did the previous GW1 expansions or stand-alones come with content patches too, or is this what came with them out of the box? I don’t recall too many games back then with huge content patches, but I could be mistaken on this. Either way, HoT will have more content released over time, so this chart would have to be updated in kind. We’re also still not sure what goes in that “raid/dungeons” slot. Something will, and I hope they release that information soon, even if it is bare bones for now. Nobody knows at all what to expect with it.

This future content you speak of is the Living World right? As far as I remember, Living World is free as long as you log in while it’s live. So why, if it’s free, am I paying up front for it with the expansion?

I mean I see your logic in this argument, but what is clearly the issue here is they must be hurting for gem sales. So instead of having me paying for future, supposedly free content, make the playerbase happy, and happy players will buy gems, well, as long as you put really neat things in there.

Also, this comparison was done with features AT LAUNCH (sorry didn’t specify earlier) for each expansion. Regardless of future content or not, this comparison is what was given to us at launch of each of these xpacs.

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

Also they’ve officially announced that there will be more than one zone. I’d recommend changing “1 Zone” to “Unknown Multiple Zones” tbh.

edit: Also Nightfall & GW:EN both introduced the Hero system for anybody who bought either or

Yes, I assume there will be more than one zone, but this comparison is only based on what has been OFFICIALLY announced. Like I said in the first post, as they reveal more OFFICIAL information, this will get updated

Thank you for sharing! Sick of the fan boys pushing that “50$ is normal for expansion” stuff, when they are clearly thinking of huge expansions.

webtoehobbit.4201:

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

Also they’ve officially announced that there will be more than one zone. I’d recommend changing “1 Zone” to “Unknown Multiple Zones” tbh.

edit: Also Nightfall & GW:EN both introduced the Hero system for anybody who bought either or

Yes, I assume there will be more than one zone, but this comparison is only based on what has been OFFICIALLY announced. Like I said in the first post, as they reveal more OFFICIAL information, this will get updated

I mean, all I was saying is that technically they really have “officially” announced that there will be multiple zones. They have said it. Officially.

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

webtoehobbit.4201:

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

Also they’ve officially announced that there will be more than one zone. I’d recommend changing “1 Zone” to “Unknown Multiple Zones” tbh.

edit: Also Nightfall & GW:EN both introduced the Hero system for anybody who bought either or

Yes, I assume there will be more than one zone, but this comparison is only based on what has been OFFICIALLY announced. Like I said in the first post, as they reveal more OFFICIAL information, this will get updated

I mean, all I was saying is that technically they really have “officially” announced that there will be multiple zones. They have said it. Officially.

I understand, but “multiple zones” is a vague statement, it could mean 2, it could mean 12, this comparison only posts precise numbers on it, if they were to come out and say, “There will be 6 new zones in this xpac.” Then I will update it to say “6 Zones” but until they are specific with their details, it won’t be added to this comparison.

You can safely assume each class with elite specs will get the same number traits, utility and elite skills.

webtoehobbit.4201:

MiniEquine.6014:

MarkoNS.3261:

butch.8136:

MonoSodiumGlutamate.4217:

+1 Thank
you for showing us the facts number don’t lie.

Need to take into account the context.
Gw1 and Gw2 are two very different games.

of course there is someone talking about context, same company same stuff they got lazy and greedy.

You literally cannot ignore context. To do so would be extremely foolish. Taking context into consideration doesn’t release Anet from their need to supply a game that their consumers will want to buy, but it does have an affect on the perspective.

Did the previous GW1 expansions or stand-alones come with content patches too, or is this what came with them out of the box? I don’t recall too many games back then with huge content patches, but I could be mistaken on this. Either way, HoT will have more content released over time, so this chart would have to be updated in kind. We’re also still not sure what goes in that “raid/dungeons” slot. Something will, and I hope they release that information soon, even if it is bare bones for now. Nobody knows at all what to expect with it.

This future content you speak of is the Living World right? As far as I remember, Living World is free as long as you log in while it’s live. So why, if it’s free, am I paying up front for it with the expansion?

Not exclusively. When you bought the original game, the Living Story was “free” in the sense that you didn’t pay again for it, but you only had access to it because you bought the game when you did. Similarly, you only have access to LS3 if you buy HoT. If you buy HoT a year from its release and you miss 4 chapters, then those don’t become free and you have to pay to unlock them (like you do now with LS2). The content I’m referring to specifically though is anything added in the new maps or instances. We know there will be more than the Verdant Brink, we just don’t know how much. There was recent data showing that they nudged Rata Sum ever so slightly to the East, which could be indicative of something even that far down (though not necessarily).

I mean I see your logic in this argument, but what is clearly the issue here is they must be hurting for gem sales. So instead of having me paying for future, supposedly free content, make the playerbase happy, and happy players will buy gems, well, as long as you put really neat things in there.

Yes, if I recall correctly they have mentioned that gem sales have not been providing them with the income they desired. That, and the community’s call for an expansion as opposed to just slow rollouts of content was seen as an opportunity for Anet to launch an expansion (player request) and to get an infusion of sales (NC Soft requirement).

Also, this comparison was done with features AT LAUNCH (sorry didn’t specify earlier) for each expansion. Regardless of future content or not, this comparison is what was given to us at launch of each of these xpacs.

Which is not necessarily the whole picture. There are some expansions that do give a large amount of stuff right up front, some that spread it out in 3-4 big chunks with the first being the bigger chunk, and some that don’t put out that much in the beginning. If they are expanding this region and they don’t have a date or plan for the next expansion, then that means, at least for the foreseeable future, that they will be putting out content for HoT over the next few years. They have a team for Living Story, but the rest of the devs are working on something else.

I agree, what they are starting out with does not look too appetizing in terms of quantity (possibly quality too?) of content. They acknowledged it would be like this in a much earlier interview. However, 3 years from now when we look back at HoT, I would put money on the total amount of released content, that we had to pay a minimum of $50 for and no more, would be a reasonable or even more than reasonable amount. They did it with the core game and I have not seen anything to show they won’t do it with the expansion. I’m still not pre-purchasing because I think that’s a bad practice, but I will buy the game when available.

Even though you forgot to mention Guild Halls and GvG (which is a ton of content, from what we’ve seen from the trailers/interviews), and that WvW maps aren’t just maps but include completely different mechanics to the point where it will make it a completely different game, it was nice of you to make such detailed comparison.

Now this question might seem a bit hollow and completely unrelated but: how much costed a soda in your contry 10 years ago, and how much does it cost now ? In my contry it has almost doubled the price. Do answer this, I’m sincerely curious.

The point is: prices are not the same they were 10 years ago. It makes absolutely no sense to make such a comparison: not just in games, but in about everything (for various reasons).

An expansion for 44,99€/ 50 dollars isn’t cheap but it’s completely fine and acceptable when you take into account that they’ve added free content throughout the 3 years of this game’s existence without a subscription fee.

Besides I don’t think that 10 dollars will be an impediment for people (in general), that enjoy this game (Now), that want the new expansion. If those people payed €40-60 for the original game, I think they’ll pay for €44,99 for this expansion as well. They might not pre-order it, but they’ll definitely buy it when it’s out. GW2 is still totally worth it.

MiniEquine.6014:

Zok.4956:

I thought the new PvP Map, the new WvW map and the new guild halls will be available also to players that did not by HoT. Am I wrong?

Guild halls are located in the Jungle, so I’m not sure how this would work for those without the expansion. The PvP and WvW maps are included, so far as I know.

Things that are GW2 updates, and not part of the expansion:

- Stronghold
- WvW Borderlands map
- Guild Halls
- Mastery System (however there are area specific mastery lines that are inaccessible without the expansion).
- Raid type content, however / whenever they implement it

While these things are being released simultaneously WITH the expansion, they are not exclusive to those who purchase it. Anet has already said that we will be able to use Guild Halls, Raid content (when it comes), Masteries, and both new PvP maps whether we buy the expansion or not.

IMHO that means they aren’t to be considered in the cost of it.

What you ARE paying for if you buy the expansion:

- Access to the Revenant class
- Access to the jungle map expansion in PvE
- 9 Class Specializations

You’re missing the point obastacle. These features you’ve mentioned were advertised in the pretext of the HoT expansion (check the first trailer).

Why do you think they decided to make WvW maps included in the base game? I’ll tell you what I think: so that we didn’t have half of the population stuck in old maps and the other half in the new maps (for example), and probably because of technical complications that would arise from this.

It’s probably the same with the rest of the content they’re putting on the base game. Don’t forget that these features are actually HoT features/content.

Dibaryon.7469:

Even though you forgot to mention Guild Halls and GvG (which is a ton of content, from what we’ve seen from the trailers/interviews), and that WvW maps aren’t just maps but include completely different mechanics to the point where it will make it a completely different game, it was nice of you to make such detailed comparison.

I did mention Guild Halls, under new Guild Halls, also, GvG has not been added or announced as an official PvP mode as of yet. Sure there is the Guild Arena, but that isn’t officially GvG.

Dibaryon.7469:

You’re missing the point obastacle. These features you’ve mentioned were advertised in the pretext of the HoT expansion (check the first trailer).

Why do you think they decided to make WvW maps included in the base game? I’ll tell you what I think: so that we didn’t have half of the population stuck in old maps and the other half in the new maps (for example), and probably because of technical complications that would arise from this.

It’s probably the same with the rest of the content they’re putting on the base game. Don’t forget that these features are actually HoT features/content.

Yes but if they’re being added to the base game without having to pay extra for it, then we the playerbase need to be asking, “What ARE we paying for?” If we are paying $50 for exclusive HoT features, then there better be a lot of them, or why pay more when I can just enjoy these new feature for free with the base game?

“Officialy GvG” I think what you have in mind is the GW1 GvG system.

GW2 is a completely different game, and this will be our Guild VS Guild system. There’s probably more to it than an arena to brawl (as they’ve mentioned in the presentations) and again, this will be GW2 GvG: it will be as real as GvG GW2 can be. Comparing it to GW1 or to other games GvG is fine, but this is just as “real” as it will be.

Dibaryon.7469:

You’re missing the point obastacle. These features you’ve mentioned were advertised in the pretext of the HoT expansion (check the first trailer).

So? We get them for free anyway. They are GW2 content, even if their cost will be covered by HoT revenue.

Dibaryon.7469:

“Officialy GvG” I think what you have in mind is the GW1 GvG system.

GW2 is a completely different game, and this will be our Guild VS Guild system. There’s probably more to it than an arena to brawl (as they’ve mentioned in the presentations) and again, this will be GW2 GvG: it will be as real as GvG GW2 can be. Comparing it to GW1 or to other games GvG is fine, but this is just as “real” as it will be.

Making a house out of pebbles and calling it a Lego set, does not indeed make it a Lego set. There have already been makeshift ways of GvG’ing in GW2, and if the Guild Halls make it easier to makeshift GvG then great, but it’s not an actual feature of HoT and therefore won’t be listed in the comparison until it is announced as a feature.

obastable.5231:

Things that are GW2 updates, and not part of the expansion:

- Stronghold
- WvW Borderlands map
- Guild Halls
- Mastery System (however there are area specific mastery lines that are inaccessible without the expansion).
- Raid type content, however / whenever they implement it

While these things are being released simultaneously WITH the expansion, they are not exclusive to those who purchase it. Anet has already said that we will be able to use Guild Halls, Raid content (when it comes), Masteries, and both new PvP maps whether we buy the expansion or not.

IMHO that means they aren’t to be considered in the cost of it.

and

webtoehobbit.4201:

Yes but if they’re being added to the base game without having to pay extra for it, then we the playerbase need to be asking, “What ARE we paying for?” If we are paying $50 for exclusive HoT features, then there better be a lot of them, or why pay more when I can just enjoy these new feature for free with the base game?

Why should it not be considered? The reason they are not adding these things in particular as part of the payment for the expansion is because it would divide guilds into two groups; get the expansion or get out. It would divide worlds into two groups; the expansion players that need to constantly be in the new map or else they will lose the PPT game. They would be splitting the community.

Would you rather they locked the WvW map, PvP map, Guild Halls, all masteries, etc behind that wall just to feel better about the price? Under normal circumstances in a traditional MMO setup, you’re absolutely right that this would not be considered because it would be replacing something else. GW2 never did and still doesn’t fall into the same category as a traditional MMO, and they have to find a way to implement these changes without alienating the community members because they don’t want to do that.

webtoehobbit I think Arenanet made a mistake on throwing free content to GW2 base game for free (including Living World). It was really awesome of them, especially because they don’t have a subscription based system but now it’s bitting them in the butt.

Because of it, now everyone thinks that way: what am I paying for? And I’m afraid you’re technically correct on that one. If one buys a product, then the price tag on that product should be about what that product has to offer.

But everyone knows that GW2 is not like this.

If you look at the new stronghold map, the WvW maps, the Guild Halls (that will probably be base game too): all of those features are all on the pretext of HoT (they were advertised as such). But these features took time from the developers to put together/work on and they’re for free, for the reasons I mentioned above. This is what’s making players say that there’s no content in HoT. In reality there is a ton of content, but technically there is very little.

This might be just me, but because of all this “free” content, I’m more than happy to pay that amount of money for the expansion.

Your comparison is not very good.

Eye of the North is the only other expansion and as such the only other game you can fairly compare it to.

Several of the HoT “features” are to be included in the base game and as such not part of the expansion. For example WvW Borderland, PvP Stronghold etc…

Dibaryon.7469:

webtoehobbit I think Arenanet made a mistake on throwing free content to GW2 base game for free (including Living World). It was really awesome of them, especially because they don’t have a subscription based system but now it’s bitting them in the butt.

Because of it, now everyone thinks that way: what am I paying for? And I’m afraid you’re technically correct on that one. If one buys a product, then the price tag on that product should be about what that product has to offer.

But everyone knows that GW2 is not like this.

If you look at the new stronghold map, the WvW maps, the Guild Halls (that will probably be base game too): all of those features are all on the pretext of HoT (they were advertised as such). But these features took time from the developers to put together/work on and they’re for free, forthe reasons I mentioned above. This is what’s making players say that there’s no content in HoT. In reality there is a ton of content, but technically there is very little.

This might be just me, but because of all this “free” content, I’m more than happy to pay that amount of money for the expansion.

Up until 3 months ago, I spent $20 a month regularly real life money on gems because I supported what ANet was doing. But what I’ve seen lately I have decided that my investment of $20 a month towards Anet is going to who knows what since they have relatively little to show for their xpac as of yet.

Please don’t assume that all of us are just leeching off the game and never contribute to the game with real money. The gem store was very successful for them in the past, but a lot of the playerbase is angry/off put by ANet lately and I don’t blame them for not investing money into a game when we don’t know what we’re getting back on that investment.

Aedelric.1287:

Your comparison is not very good.

Eye of the North is the only other expansion and as such the only other game you can fairly compare it to.

Several of the HoT “features” are to be included in the base game and as such not part of the expansion. For example WvW Borderland, PvP Stronghold etc…

I disagree because if you look at the amount of staff they had back in Factions, sure it wasn’t an official “expansion” it was actually MORE than that, it was a standalone campaign and they did it with roughtly 150 employees. Then 6 months later they released Nightfall, another huge standalone campaign with once again, 150ish employees.

Now fast forward to Guild Wars 2 and they have over 250 employees and what do they have to show for it? I think it’s a valid question and I think this comparison is fair.

It’s the no zones and no endgame that really does it for me.

As someone who has played every Guild Wars… I still don’t understand how this is an expansion and why they aren’t trying to explain it to me.

Yet they go with a high price with those questions unanswered. It just doesn’t make sense.

It’s up to you mate, and I respect your decision. (webtoehobbit)

But do bear in mind what I’ve said when the expansion comes out, remember all of the “free” content that we has been given to us because of HoT. I also think they screwed up their HoT pre-purchase announcement, and some things are not fair, but there’s still lots of things that haven’t been revealed yet and we should make a final decision when HoT is complete.

P.S.: I never mentioned anything about anyone leeching the game, I’m just trying to show people here that HoT is not as void as it seems.

Aedelric.1287:

Your comparison is not very good.

Eye of the North is the only other expansion and as such the only other game you can fairly compare it to.

Several of the HoT “features” are to be included in the base game and as such not part of the expansion. For example WvW Borderland, PvP Stronghold etc…

What they call expansion is a standalone (or “expandalone”) that replaced the core game from this point forward. A new player that joins today cannot choose to buy GW2 from Anet, but are forced to buy HoT.

Meanwhile, veterans pay the same price to move their active accounts to the new version of the game.

Dibaryon.7469:

Because of it, now everyone thinks that way: what am I paying for? And I’m afraid you’re technically correct on that one. If one buys a product, then the price tag on that product should be about what that product has to offer.

Yes, it is technically correct, though you are confusing the value of a thing with the price of a thing – these are not one and the same. When a product is marketed to me at $50-$100 for it, I expect that content to have value.

If everyone who doesn’t buy that content is getting most of it for free, the content I am paying for drastically increases in price while decreasing in value.

This shouldn’t be hard to understand, and the people who DO purchase the expansion shouldn’t be expected to cover the cost of everyone who doesn’t purchase it yet gets free access to 70% of the same content anyway.

Poor business practice.

Nice graph, I will be keeping that one

aspirine.6852:

Nice graph, I will be keeping that one

Thank you very much And I am not trying to incite more rage with this graph, I just think that it’s smart for us consumers to know the facts. This comparison will be updated regularly as more info for HoT is announced.

I don’t think the new WvW map, guild halls and pvp map should be available to people who do not buy the expansion. Seriously, it makes no sense to charge 50$ for an expansion and just give away half the content.

Wow looking at that comparison,you would be mad to preorder hot.
It seems crazy to me how they keep drip feeding us one new feature at a time.
Why not tell us how many new zones were going to get and if there are gonna be new dungeons.
At the moment its just looking like a living world update to me.

karik.8293:

Wow looking at that comparison,you would be mad to preorder hot.
It seems crazy to me how they keep drip feeding us one new feature at a time.
Why not tell us how many new zones were going to get and if there are gonna be new dungeons.
At the moment its just looking like a living world update to me.

Which is why we probably shouldn’t pre-order/pre-purchase HoT to begin with. The problem with doing that for any game is that you are buying something without know everything about it. You are making a personal investment and making it more difficult to back out if you change your mind, albeit not impossible.

If for no other reason, we shouldn’t pre-purchase this game or any other game based on principle.

You should rename the topic “A very flawed comparison for HoT”.

There are so many inacuracies and wrong comparison it feels like a completely biased attempt to discredite ANet’s work.

I mean you’re not even trying to be fair when you list “1 area” instead of an honest “Unknown”. If you want to compare things at day launch I’m afraid you actually have to wait HoT day launch to do so.

I can’t know if HoT will be packed with as much content as GW campaigns were and honestly I don’t care but this thread is just disrespectful.

To anyone who didn’t play GW1, you might want to know how many of the skills ended up being actually useful, how much time you spent per area, how little new guild halls mattered, how good the new PvP modes were, etc…

If you want to be smart by knowing the facts, you should probably not stop to the facts that support your view. The list of missing factors is quite large.

MiniEquine.6014:

karik.8293:

Wow looking at that comparison,you would be mad to preorder hot.
It seems crazy to me how they keep drip feeding us one new feature at a time.
Why not tell us how many new zones were going to get and if there are gonna be new dungeons.
At the moment its just looking like a living world update to me.

Which is why we probably shouldn’t pre-order/pre-purchase HoT to begin with. The problem with doing that for any game is that you are buying something without know everything about it. You are making a personal investment and making it more difficult to back out if you change your mind, albeit not impossible.

If for no other reason, we shouldn’t pre-purchase this game or any other game based on principle.

That’s generally the case for preorders (or more recently, Kickstarter).

Having played GW1, I think each map in GW2 has a lot more care than in GW1.

If it were the other way around, people would be complaining that the expansion maps are just empty maps put in just to increase the map count and justify the price.

I do prefer the higher quality of maps.

Cool numbers by numbers comparison, but one complaint is there will most most most definately be more maps than vardant brink. However, since anet SHOULD have told us how many maps should be included before asking for a prepurchase I can see why its easy to pick on.

And +1 on higher quality of maps.. I think the safe number is around 6-8 new maps. I know with the map quality ill get the same playtime out of those that I would the empty landmass offered in most other MMO expansions.

Dibaryon.7469:

You’re missing the point obastacle. These features you’ve mentioned were advertised in the pretext of the HoT expansion (check the first trailer).

Why do you think they decided to make WvW maps included in the base game? I’ll tell you what I think: so that we didn’t have half of the population stuck in old maps and the other half in the new maps (for example), and probably because of technical complications that would arise from this.

It’s probably the same with the rest of the content they’re putting on the base game. Don’t forget that these features are actually HoT features/content.

Yes they were announced in the pretext of the HoT expansion, but they are not included in the HoT expansion that you can buy (because the are included in the base game).

So, as a result, buyers of HoT seem to cross-subsidize the parts of HoT that will be available in the “base-game”.

Quantity over quality, amirtie?

webtoehobbit.4201:

Spent all day yesterday making this up, to compare what we received content wise from ArenaNet in the past with their other expansions to what has been officially announced so far with Heart of Thorns.

I will continue to update this as more info is revealed with Heart of Thorns, but here is what we have so far, enjoy!

Edit: This comparison is based off of features that were DAY 1 features and not added at a later date.

+1 for put all this detail together…

Following the spirit of comparison and taking both the good and the bad, we can safely say, I think, that:

• GW1 had free content too, all the festive events and everything following EotN, delivered in a pretty much LW style with the exception of never having to pay for it

• GW1 however also had constant bug fixing and skill balancing, something that GW2 was and still is badly needing. During GW1 times you wouldn’t spend 2 years not being able to progress through Echovald, or unable to catch a wurm outside the Gate of Desolation. During GW1 times, you wouldn’t have mobs bugging out in instances or quests failing continuously for a couple of years. And certainly, pve and pvp skill balancing wasn’t happening once in a full moon.

What does that say?! Dunno, maybe too much focus on mini rocks and too little on the quality of the content?! I didn’t see it, but I’ve heard LWS1 was as much a mess as it was a pleasant surprize. But then again, you have Ogre Wars perma-bugging, Lupicus acting crazy while guardians act crazy on Lupicus and no one gives a rat’s butt – or a goggly eye stone.

Also, as long as the free content that will ship to HoT doesn’t stay – or doesn’t stay free – can’t be tagged as free at all. Just as GW2 sales don’t set the price for the product at that value.

Lastly, maybe start considering HoT more of a “Realm Reborn” type of product rather than an expansion/dlc. It’s a stand-alone game that adds to the core, but that particular core is too intimately connected here to actually survive on its own at all. So it’s not a Prophecies-Factions situation.

As such, maybe a comparison between what FFXIV and the reworked product would be closer to where we stand. Did they add new stuff? did they improve mechanics?! And most importantly, did they require the people who already purchased the faulty product to buy it again?!

webtoehobbit.4201:

Edit: This comparison is based off of features that were DAY 1 features and not added at a later date.

I think you could add Heroes to Nightfall as “Other Main Features”, since that’s when the hero system was born. I would also suggest adding the outpost control mechanic as “Other Main Features” for Factions, as well as the Challenge Missions that were unique to that chapter.

Very nice work. Congratulations on putting it all together.

MiniEquine.6014:

Either way, HoT will have more content released over time

Really? Will it?

Keep in mind that ArenaNet added content through the Living World Season 1… But that was a failure. That’s why ArenaNet switched gears and made Living World Season 2 very different from Season 1… But it was also a failure.

(Both failed to prevent GW2’s profits from falling.)

And thus ArenaNet going for an expansion, a few months after saying that they saw no point in an expansion since they could add everything through the Living World; and also stopping Living World content (when was the last episode?).

In other words, the Living World was a failure. ArenaNet will not add more content through it. If HoT is successful, we will likely get more expansions… Not more Living World. Which means, the assumption that HoT will get more content for free is, to say the least, rather premature.

Lyndis.4653:

To anyone who didn’t play GW1, you might want to know how many of the skills ended up being actually useful, how much time you spent per area, how little new guild halls mattered, how good the new PvP modes were, etc…

If you want to be smart by knowing the facts, you should probably not stop to the facts that support your view. The list of missing factors is quite large.

Oh?! And how much of the GW2’s gear, traits and upgrades matter(ed)? Zerk gear and Ice Bow 4? Talking about biased and unjust comments and comparisons. How many of the 18 dungeons in GW1’s only expansion (that sold for half the HoT’s price) were ran?! How fun were the campaigns compared with what we had here?! How good the PvP(vE?) maps of GW2 are?! sorry! map, ‘cause there’s only one and a bit broken.
How do you explain 9 classes with 5 slots when previous releases had slots for all basic classes and when combined, extra ones for the new classes?! How long does it take you to actually do the pve part of the game in GW2? (we’re talking possible hours of gameplay, hm?!) How much time you would’ve spent to get the achievements in EotN? (not to mention the standalones) How useful the skills from the EotN titles?

Let’s say that EotN alone came with more dungeon content than GW2 (19 dungeons with 2 modes). That zones-wise, it was half the size of GW2 map. That also added mechanics and items that greatly improved the player’s QoL. All that for half the price of this “expansion”. NF and Factions don’t even need mentioning, really.

Free GW2 content wasn’t free for all, neither is it available for all no more. Don’t count it in. WiK, HotN and WoC were free content for all and permanent in GW1.

Defend what you want, but that comparison helps.
Greedy with that much focus on mini rocks is x, sloppy with all those bug-fixes breaking other things and a bit lazy with fixing what they promised to and delayed till Doomsday (or HoT?), conditions mechanics, story, broken mobs and events… Plenty of things to compare, and most of them give them little – if any – credit.

It’s in our nature though, to hope for better and defend ourselves when something may be revealing we made some poor decisions along the way. The state of the game and of this forum are both an indirect result of this behaviors.

“It was better back then, but it still ain’t all bad now, so maybe tomorrow…”

Kind of a side note. Can anyone tell me where Anet has said that Guild Halls will be available to people without HoT since they are 2 zones in the Maguuma Jungle?