Guild Wars 2

I’m sad that core classes don’t recieve anything in that fist xpac.

Druid gets glyphs.
Ranger gets nothing.

Dragon Hunter gets traps.
Guardian gets nothing.

And so on for every classes. Each elite classes have 4-5 more skills than the core classes. It’s unfair considering the elite classes in an alternative and not an upgrade.
What happens when, like a kind of 80% of the guardians, you are absolutely not interested by the new elite classe counterpart ? Answer : the xpac brings 0 new skills for you.

What would have done ArenaNet ? This :

Ranger gets 4-5 venom (or something else) skills.
When switching to Druid, venom skills are replaced by glyphs.

Guardian gets 4-5 new kind of skills.
When switching to DH, those new skills (or the medi skills, or the consec skills) are replaced by traps.

What would have done ArenaNet if they had even more vision ?

For each class, one of the core spec becomes an “elite base spec”, preferably the one wich defines the best the class, wich is replaced when switching to an other elite spec.
Example :
Guardian has to choose 2 spec between the 4 core specs (honor, valor, zeal, radiance) and has one elite spec : virtues. When the Guardian becomes a Dragon Hunter, the virtues spec is replaced by the DH spec.
Also the virtues spec permits to wield hammer (wich is replaced by bow when switching to DH).

Some of you will said that this system will create a skill number inflation, but on the contrary it prevents it :
When the next new elite specs will appear, the new skills will each time replace the “replaceable skills” (the venom skills on my ranger example).

What do you think ?

You only have to put 1 trait point in the new trait line to unlock it its not like you have to play an entirely new class

Extreme.8350:

You only have to put 1 trait point in the new trait line to unlock it its not like you have to play an entirely new class

Never said the contrary. It seems you missed my point.

Scipion.7548:

Some of you will said that this system will create a skill number inflation, but on the contrary it prevents it :
When the next new elite specs will appear, the new skills will each time replace the “replaceable skills” (the venom skills on my ranger example).

That’s still the case since you can only have one elite spec at a time so in that sense your idea is not better than Anet’s implementation. While your idea would mean a lot more work and a lote more new skills thus requiring more resources and more causing potentially more balance problems. Calling that a ‘lack of vision’ is a misnomer.

What happens when, like a kind of 80% of the guardians, you are absolutely not interested by the new elite classe counterpart ? Answer : the xpac brings 0 new skills for you.

This is basically like saying: “If I don’t use any of the new options, what new options are there for me?”

Lol this is the most ridiculous complain I’ve ever heard. Anet adds new stuff to a class, complains about how nothing new is added to the ‘core’ class. Now what? Dragon hunter gets traps guardians get nothing, erm maybe because dragon hunters are guardians (‘core class’) that got something? It’s just the name of that something your core classes got.

People need to stop looking at elite specializations as new classes, because they aren’t. They might be marketed as them but in reality its just a new build for your existing class that takes literally two seconds to switch to once you have it unlocked. If you wanted you could just equip the trait line and nothing else and it would still basically feel like the “old class”. There is also the fact that some traits and skills compliment the existing ones, which is technically adding to the base profession since, as I said, these are not new classes.

To me, the elite specs are just more skills, traits and a new weapon for my existing class with the downside that I now have a boot for a profession icon when using it.

The core classes did get something… an elite spec.

I do have to point out that rangers actually do get something: the five new pets are super nifty in my book. I really love the bristleback and the smoke scale with all those evades plus a smoke field to blast could add some interesting strategies.

Scipion.7548:

Extreme.8350:

You only have to put 1 trait point in the new trait line to unlock it its not like you have to play an entirely new class

Never said the contrary. It seems you missed my point.

Apparently you missed the point that a druid is a ranger, and a dragon hunter is a guardian.

I think ALL of you missed the point that it would be problematic at best from a coding standpoint to give base classes from the core game new abilities in the expansion. That means there’d have to be mechanisms in place to block them from non-HoT players, which is just too much work.

Occam’s Razor, folks. It’s liberally used in the coding world. (Well, if you don’t work for Scripps, anyway.) -Sid

I also don’t like this system completely. However what you are saying there seems really weird and not better.

I simply think locking weapons and utilities behind one spec is not that good. This will make interesting builds in the future impossible where you want the weapon of spec 1 and the traits or utilities of spec 2 for example. Or maybe you just want the new weapon and not the new profession mechanic. This seems very “forced” IMO.

Neox.3497:

I also don’t like this system completely. However what you are saying there seems really weird and not better.

I simply think locking weapons and utilities behind one spec is not that good. This will make interesting builds in the future impossible where you want the weapon of spec 1 and the traits or utilities of spec 2 for example. Or maybe you just want the new weapon and not the new profession mechanic. This seems very “forced” IMO.

It works that way exactly because of the future. If you can use skills of one spec with the mechanic of another spec then that would mean that with the introduction of each spec the number of builds you can make (i.e. the number of combinations of traits, weapons and skills) grows exponentially which would make balancing exponentially difficult (this is essentially what happened with GW1 and something that Anet explicitly wants to avoid with GW2). This is something they avoid by tightly connecting the traits to the weapons and the skills.

Scipion.7548:

What would have done ArenaNet if they had even more vision ?

For each class, one of the core spec becomes an “elite base spec”, preferably the one wich defines the best the class, wich is replaced when switching to an other elite spec.

Example: Guardian has to choose 2 spec between the 4 core specs (honor, valor, zeal, radiance) and has one elite spec : virtues. When the Guardian becomes a Dragon Hunter, the virtues spec is replaced by the DH spec.

Also the virtues spec permits to wield hammer (wich is replaced by bow when switching to DH).

What do you think ?

But what if people want to play an Elite Spec and have one of their cores specs be the one selected for the “Core Elite Spec?” This suggestion would remove that option. Also, what if people want to use 3 core specs which do not include the “Core Elite Spec?”

I’m not sure what this is in aid of. If the core professions are rewritten to include what amounts to a a second Elite Spec, aren’t you just asking for a 2nd Elite Spec now, instead of buffing the core profession?

Oh, and Guardians can already use hammers. If your intent is that the core spec be allowed access to a “new” weapon by selecting the “profession skill trait line,” that would also be the same as asking for a 2nd Elite Spec now?

Diovid.9506:

Neox.3497:

I also don’t like this system completely. However what you are saying there seems really weird and not better.

I simply think locking weapons and utilities behind one spec is not that good. This will make interesting builds in the future impossible where you want the weapon of spec 1 and the traits or utilities of spec 2 for example. Or maybe you just want the new weapon and not the new profession mechanic. This seems very “forced” IMO.

It works that way exactly because of the future. If you can use skills of one spec with the mechanic of another spec then that would mean that with the introduction of each spec the number of builds you can make (i.e. the number of combinations of traits, weapons and skills) grows exponentially which would make balancing exponentially difficult (this is essentially what happened with GW1 and something that Anet explicitly wants to avoid with GW2). This is something they avoid by tightly connecting the traits to the weapons and the skills.

That’s surely the main reason. But still. I think the most important would be to balance the top and that won’t be that difficult.

What would you rather have: “5 top tier builds of 100 possible ones” or “5 top tier builds of 1000 possible ones”. Keep in mind that for casual play you would have MUCH more diversity with the second one.

However if anet really thinks they won’t be able to balance it right let them. It’s better this way than thinking they can balance it but not being able to.

You mean 80% of guardians aren’t planning on switching anyway since dragonhunter is complete crap and doesn’t address any of the issues guardian has been wanting fixed for years?

The entire point of elite specs is that they extend the class. Druids are a type of ranger — you want the new skill type, use the elite spec. You’re still a ranger in all other ways.

To me the elites are more options to the “core” classes, and I’ll use them as such. If any one encounter would be better suited to me running a reaper, I’ll Put on my reaper traits. Its the same as skills, if I need a projectile block I’ll equip one.

I don’t think the elite specs were ment to replace base classes, only to give more options. And I like that I’m forced to play a dragon hunter to get that bow. Think of the point when we have 6 elites for each class. Sooner or later the warrior is going to run out of weapons to use. With this system the Warrior can have a staff with two different elite specs using different skills.

OP, let’s put it this way. When you upgrade your car, do you get a new car or a better version of your core car? Your complaint is a bit ridiculous imo, no offense.

The one to Rule.2593:

You mean 80% of guardians aren’t planning on switching anyway since dragonhunter is complete crap and doesn’t address any of the issues guardian has been wanting fixed for years?

I would hope it didn’t.

Problems with the core class should be fixed in the core class.

I can kinda see where the OP is coming from. I think he worded it poorly but I do get his point.

I do want to see the core classes getting some fancy new stuff that doesn’t need you to go into an elite spec trait line. For example stuff like the new elite shout and new elite signet that the guardians got (granted, we got them instead of the elite tomes that we used to have but still).

lorddarkflare.9186:

The one to Rule.2593:

You mean 80% of guardians aren’t planning on switching anyway since dragonhunter is complete crap and doesn’t address any of the issues guardian has been wanting fixed for years?

I would hope it didn’t.

Problems with the core class should be fixed in the core class.

Yeah, but they havent been. So was hoping for some of the issues to be fixed with elite spec as it’s really the only chance we’ll ever get with fixing the inherent issues.

My biggest hope is for the the core utility sets that are incomplete to be completed eg:

• Heal skill
• 4 x utility slot skills
• Elite skill

With a rework / redesign to unused sets allowing for a viable playstyle / build option for all sets. Also look at unused or pointless minors (which are forced on you) traits which could be improved & added to these viable options.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

I can kinda see where the OP is coming from. I think he worded it poorly but I do get his point.

I do want to see the core classes getting some fancy new stuff that doesn’t need you to go into an elite spec trait line. For example stuff like the new elite shout and new elite signet that the guardians got (granted, we got them instead of the elite tomes that we used to have but still).

This.
For example as a guardian I hate our elite spec, I didnt make a guard to be a ranger wannabe, so it seems I get nothing new as a true guardian.
Maybe this feeling is less true with some other classes. Yes a reaper is clearly a necromancer, a big part of the warriors wanted to play like a furious berserker, etc, but the DH isnt a guardian, nor in terms of gameplay nor in terms of roleplay.
If the get options you clearly didnt want when you signed the contract (when you create the character), it is like not getting options at all.

Complaints are getting more and more ridiculous…

The elite specialization should only unlock the new class mechanics and associated traits
New weapon and new spells should go “baseline” for accounts with HoT.

You’re currently saying to waste a whole trait line slot for the sole purpose of taking a spell or a weapon.

Kulvar.1239:

The elite specialization should only unlock the new class mechanics and associated traits
New weapon and new spells should go “baseline” for accounts with HoT.

You’re currently saying to waste a whole trait line slot for the sole purpose of taking a spell or a weapon.

This. Makes much more sense.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Kulvar.1239:

The elite specialization should only unlock the new class mechanics and associated traits
New weapon and new spells should go “baseline” for accounts with HoT.

You’re currently saying to waste a whole trait line slot for the sole purpose of taking a spell or a weapon.

This. Makes much more sense.

See my last post in this thread for why Anet decided not to do that.

Kulvar.1239:

The elite specialization should only unlock the new class mechanics and associated traits
New weapon and new spells should go “baseline” for accounts with HoT.

You’re currently saying to waste a whole trait line slot for the sole purpose of taking a spell or a weapon.

This is my main/only issue with the current setup. I’m worried that so much is tied to elite specs that classes may well only end up having 2 trait slots to actually play with outside of very specific builds.

The one to Rule.2593:

You mean 80% of guardians aren’t planning on switching anyway since dragonhunter is complete crap and doesn’t address any of the issues guardian has been wanting fixed for years?

I am planning on switching. It does not address everything that makes guardian a profession badly in need of fixing (movement speed for one) but it does address one thing: longbow.

Diovid.9506:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Kulvar.1239:

The elite specialization should only unlock the new class mechanics and associated traits
New weapon and new spells should go “baseline” for accounts with HoT.

You’re currently saying to waste a whole trait line slot for the sole purpose of taking a spell or a weapon.

This. Makes much more sense.

See my last post in this thread for why Anet decided not to do that.

It is obvious for why they wanted to make it this way, ease of balance, yes, but that is just lazy.

Let’s be honest, it’s not like GW2 is going to be around long enough for there to be over three E-specs for each class, nor will they have the imagination to come up with more than a couple of roles extra.

If that is the case, then why not just balance the ESpec weapons and skills to be usable without the traitline? It’s not hard.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Diovid.9506:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Kulvar.1239:

The elite specialization should only unlock the new class mechanics and associated traits
New weapon and new spells should go “baseline” for accounts with HoT.

You’re currently saying to waste a whole trait line slot for the sole purpose of taking a spell or a weapon.

This. Makes much more sense.

See my last post in this thread for why Anet decided not to do that.

It is obvious for why they wanted to make it this way, ease of balance, yes, but that is just lazy.

Let’s be honest, it’s not like GW2 is going to be around long enough for there to be over three E-specs for each class, nor will they have the imagination to come up with more than a couple of roles extra.

If that is the case, then why not just balance the ESpec weapons and skills to be usable without the traitline? It’s not hard.

I am not an expert in programming nor in balancing. If Anet claims that it takes too many resources to create and balance more options (if those options will be balancable at all), then I tend to believe them. At least I believe that they believe it.

As an aside, you say that ’it’s not like GW2 is going to be around long enough for there to be over three E-specs for each class, nor will they have the imagination to come up with more than a couple of roles extra’ however even if that is likely, then the system still has to be designed in case that turns out not to come true.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Diovid.9506:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Kulvar.1239:

The elite specialization should only unlock the new class mechanics and associated traits
New weapon and new spells should go “baseline” for accounts with HoT.

You’re currently saying to waste a whole trait line slot for the sole purpose of taking a spell or a weapon.

This. Makes much more sense.

See my last post in this thread for why Anet decided not to do that.

It is obvious for why they wanted to make it this way, ease of balance, yes, but that is just lazy.

Let’s be honest, it’s not like GW2 is going to be around long enough for there to be over three E-specs for each class, nor will they have the imagination to come up with more than a couple of roles extra.

If that is the case, then why not just balance the ESpec weapons and skills to be usable without the traitline? It’s not hard.

Because you know how long it’s going to be around for. Because it’s not making millions of dollars every month before it went free to play.

Let’s be honest. You haven’t the first hint of a clue how well Guild Wars 2 is doing, but I can tell you this. Every indication I’ve seen says this game is going strong.

I don’t suppose you have actual evidence that it won’t be around, or are you just spinning your wheels?

Bezagron.7352:

My biggest hope is for the the core utility sets that are incomplete to be completed eg:

• Heal skill
• 4 x utility slot skills
• Elite skill

With a rework / redesign to unused sets allowing for a viable playstyle / build option for all sets. Also look at unused or pointless minors (which are forced on you) traits which could be improved & added to these viable options.

This is exactly what needs to be done before Anet even considers adding any more utility types that are not tied to elite specs. The current sets need to be completed and the sets that are unused need either buffs or reworks.

At least with the minion damage changes some of those sets may see use in PvE, so that is a start.

Vayne.8563:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Diovid.9506:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Kulvar.1239:

The elite specialization should only unlock the new class mechanics and associated traits
New weapon and new spells should go “baseline” for accounts with HoT.

You’re currently saying to waste a whole trait line slot for the sole purpose of taking a spell or a weapon.

This. Makes much more sense.

See my last post in this thread for why Anet decided not to do that.

It is obvious for why they wanted to make it this way, ease of balance, yes, but that is just lazy.

Let’s be honest, it’s not like GW2 is going to be around long enough for there to be over three E-specs for each class, nor will they have the imagination to come up with more than a couple of roles extra.

If that is the case, then why not just balance the ESpec weapons and skills to be usable without the traitline? It’s not hard.

Because you know how long it’s going to be around for. Because it’s not making millions of dollars every month before it went free to play.

Let’s be honest. You haven’t the first hint of a clue how well Guild Wars 2 is doing, but I can tell you this. Every indication I’ve seen says this game is going strong.

I don’t suppose you have actual evidence that it won’t be around, or are you just spinning your wheels?

Chill mate.

I just figured that another 3 expansions are unlikely if the 1st one took over 3 years and its not out yet. Perhaps they will make it more of a focus, in that case, it may last, but I can’t see it running another 9 years before they want to make GW3. It’s not that it isn’t doing well, they will just want to upgrade to GW3 in a while. I would like it to be around a long time.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Chill mate.

I just figured that another 3 expansions are unlikely if the 1st one took over 3 years and its not out yet. Perhaps they will make it more of a focus, in that case, it may last, but I can’t see it running another 9 years before they want to make GW3. It’s not that it isn’t doing well, they will just want to upgrade to GW3 in a while. I would like it to be around a long time.

It took 3 years because expansions were not in their original plan (they wanted only LSs), now that they want expansions it will release much faster, i think like gw1 the next one will be 1,5 year from now

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Vayne.8563:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Diovid.9506:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Kulvar.1239:

The elite specialization should only unlock the new class mechanics and associated traits
New weapon and new spells should go “baseline” for accounts with HoT.

You’re currently saying to waste a whole trait line slot for the sole purpose of taking a spell or a weapon.

This. Makes much more sense.

See my last post in this thread for why Anet decided not to do that.

It is obvious for why they wanted to make it this way, ease of balance, yes, but that is just lazy.

Let’s be honest, it’s not like GW2 is going to be around long enough for there to be over three E-specs for each class, nor will they have the imagination to come up with more than a couple of roles extra.

If that is the case, then why not just balance the ESpec weapons and skills to be usable without the traitline? It’s not hard.

Because you know how long it’s going to be around for. Because it’s not making millions of dollars every month before it went free to play.

Let’s be honest. You haven’t the first hint of a clue how well Guild Wars 2 is doing, but I can tell you this. Every indication I’ve seen says this game is going strong.

I don’t suppose you have actual evidence that it won’t be around, or are you just spinning your wheels?

Chill mate.

I just figured that another 3 expansions are unlikely if the 1st one took over 3 years and its not out yet. Perhaps they will make it more of a focus, in that case, it may last, but I can’t see it running another 9 years before they want to make GW3. It’s not that it isn’t doing well, they will just want to upgrade to GW3 in a while. I would like it to be around a long time.

So in addition to not knowing about the population and health of the game, you don’t know about the history either.

Anet wasn’t going to make an expansion at first, so they didn’t start programming this expansion on day one (as they no doubt will be doing now).

Anet made instead Season 1 and Season 2 of the Living Story, but the fans insisted on an expansion. There’s at least a year and a half that an expansion probably wasn’t being worked on. Shifting gears like that also takes extra time. So yeah, what does it mean that the first expansion came out 3 years after the game launched, when it wasn’t planned at all?

There’s not only no evidence that they’re going to be coming out with Guild Wars 3, but Anet has pretty much said as much. This is what they’ve put their marbles into, so why would they stop it and start something else.

You can bet the next expansion won’t be 3 years away.

And you can also expect more content between expansions.

Vayne.8563:

You can bet the next expansion won’t be 3 years away.

And you can also expect more content between expansions.

Or maybe the next expansion will be in 3 years but we will get elite specializations sooner through the living world instead. I can understand why the first elite specs are tied with an expansion as the whole system looks so complex that is beyond a simple feature pack, but who says we won’t get more elite specs without expansions? Now that the main system is in place, they can add them at any time it makes sense to do so.

Kulvar.1239:

The elite specialization should only unlock the new class mechanics and associated traits
New weapon and new spells should go “baseline” for accounts with HoT.

You’re currently saying to waste a whole trait line slot for the sole purpose of taking a spell or a weapon.

I agree with this. Locking weapons so that they are unusable without a specific traitline is a mistake imho. Will probably be changed at some point.

I believe they also said they would be dropping more elite specs into the game later on. the way they worded it made me think before the next expac. That or I was going crazy, also a likely story

I don’t understand why people are saying BS to you Op. You point is completely valid.

If I don’t want to “Specialize” into DH, i really have ZERO changes to my profession, since EVERYTHING is locked/tied into the specialization.

In order to be able to use any of the new skills, or the new weapon, I am completely forced to kill one specialization and equip the elite specialization. This completely kills the purpose of build variation that expansions are supposed to bring.

I rather agree, my Elementalist is also not getting anything, because i really can’t sacrifice any of my actual specs only to use the shouts or the warhorn for example.

Vayne.8563:

~snip~

Chill, mate.

You need to go back and look at the history yourself.

Do a google search on “anet guild wars 2 expansion” with a custom year of 2012. You’ll need to change the date yourself, the link won’t work with it for some reason.

They announced they were working on it over 3 years ago.

Don’t blow up at me because I used ANet’s own timetable.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Vayne.8563:

~snip~

Chill, mate.

You need to go back and look at the history yourself.

Do a google search on “anet guild wars 2 expansion” with a custom year of 2012. You’ll need to change the date yourself, the link won’t work with it for some reason.

They announced they were working on it over 3 years ago.

Don’t blow up at me because I used ANet’s own timetable.

You’re wrong though. The content of the article does not in fact match the title. The website misunderstood what Colin was saying. What Colin was talking about was introducing ‘large-scale expansion content’. That does not mean that this content is introduced via a paid/boxed expansion. In fact in the context of what he said, it seems like he is talking about introducing this content for free (in other words, he’s talking about the living story/world).

Vayne.8563:

You can bet the next expansion won’t be 3 years away.

Or at least new sub-professions (elites is a bad word, especially if some become the new normal). It would be the obvious thing to do to build in the hooks to add other ones while they were working on the first set. The main problem is designing the specs and have them be comparable to the existing options.

In fact, that will gum up the works more than anything. Think balancing is hard and happens often? After Friday they jump from balancing 8 to 18. Then most likely adding more sub-professions as time goes by.