Guild Wars 2

To begin with, this is not a discussion about masteries or hero points, but the expansion as a whole.

We all know there was a large group of people who were asking for challenging content in GW2, and I was one of them. But I think the way they implemented in HoT was something like “They want hard content? We will give them hard content! YOLO!”.

You don’t make a whole expansion cattered just for the a certain group of people, there needs to be a balance. There were other MMOs that went full hardcore and we all know how they ended.
Now you got the situation where the more casual of the players (which are quite a lot) are uttermost frustrated and are not enjoying the content.

They could’ve left the meta events in the maps and raids as challeging content, while leaving the general maps accessible for those who are just interested in exploring, gathering, doing little events, etc. That way you would please both groups of players.
Adventures are a good example of content done right, you have the Bronze tier pretty much accessible to anyone, while the Gold tiers will probably be done by those who want a challenge.

I don’t think any of the hardcore players really enjoy random packs of elite mobs placed everywhere for no reason either.
The new maps feel like Orr on release, with more leaves. And we all know how Orr ended up, even now after the nerf, the only people who go there are the ones doing the Cursed Shore train and the ones going for map completion.

And please think about this in general, do not mindlessy reply, do you think releasing an expansion designed to a single target audience is good for the game in the long run?
Do you think the casual players will quit the expansion maps after the hype is gone? And if yes, how will that affect the game in those areas?

Keep in mind that a lot of the casual players cannot afford to improve, they have limited gameplay time, real life responsabilities, etc and they just want to relax a couple of hours a week for example.

Maybe stupid question, but why not just run past mob packs you dont want to fight?

You can run past mobs in Orr too, you’re missing the point.

Uh, I don’t see a lot of the playerbase really hating on the difficulty as a whole when I go in game. Most of the complaints in game were mainly about the HP issue but now that it has been made more convenient players will now be going into these maps with a small ceiling to reach for their elite spec.

People will adapt, especially since back then there were no megaservers so much of what was wrong with Orr at release won’t apply here. In fact, if they wanted to increase mob density in Orr again it might not be the worst idea…but that’s not going to happen. The content is the end-game for the core as it is.

I was slightly alarmed to see the recent ANet HP announcement say that they are very happy with the difficulty level of HoT. I can’t help but think they have lost touch with their core audience. I’ve recently left another game where the devs listened to the vocal minority who said they wanted it harder. It stopped being fun for me, and for others, so that game now has fewer players and might struggle to survive.

Casual players are the bread and butter of these games which means providing a huge quantity of relatively easy content. I don’t think the expansion can be a commercial success if it only targets hardcore players so, yes, I think it will get nerfed sooner or later. Open world stuff should not be a struggle for normal players with average kit. But it’s hard to ask those players what they want because most of them will never come to the forum.

Those HoT maps are big. There is plenty of room to accommodate players of all skill levels. Maybe Anet need to learn from GW1 and have a hard mode version of each map for those who are “in it to win it” rather than ramping up the difficulty in the normal maps.

Put simply: some players don’t play for the challenge.

There’s a difference between having hard end content in an MMO, and having all content hard.

And to make it clear again, this is not about me or you as individuals and what we like or don’t, it’s about the game and the population as a whole.
Please think on a big scale and in the long run. HoT will not always be end content.

This is why they should have used the opportunity to add Tengu*. Some nice, easy classic low level maps to wander around in and chill and three easy chapters to complete from the classic personal story for the casuals. Then the Heart of Maguuma stuff for those who want a bit more of a challenge.

*Of course, if they’d done that we would have had to wait another six months.

DoctorDing.5890:

I was slightly alarmed to see the recent ANet HP announcement say that they are very happy with the difficulty level of HoT. I can’t help but think they have lost touch with their core audience. I’ve recently left another game where the devs listened to the vocal minority who said they wanted it harder. It stopped being fun for me, and for others, so that game now has fewer players and might struggle to survive.

Casual players are the bread and butter of these games which means providing a huge quantity of relatively easy content. I don’t think the expansion can be a commercial success if it only targets hardcore players so, yes, I think it will get nerfed sooner or later. Open world stuff should not be a struggle for normal players with average kit. But it’s hard to ask those players what they want because most of them will never come to the forum.

Those HoT maps are big. There is plenty of room to accommodate players of all skill levels. Maybe Anet need to learn from GW1 and have a hard mode version of each map for those who are “in it to win it” rather than ramping up the difficulty in the normal maps.

Put simply: some players don’t play for the challenge.

If I can watch t.v. , and play a game at the same time there’s something wrong with the challenge, but maybe that’s just me. If you want less challenge tyria has about 25 maps already for ya.

leftyboy.9358:

Maybe stupid question, but why not just run past mob packs you dont want to fight?

you cant. Most have some form of blink attack, or slow, or teleport you back…..

literally the entire rest of the game caters to casual players. I also find it funny that you compare it to Orr to prove your point then say “and we all know how that ended up”. you even give examples as to why that was a bad idea. they nerfed it to cater to “casual” players and now the only time people go there is for a mindless farm or once ever for map completion. people don’t go there because it’s engaging content. if they nerf the HoT maps, they’ll likely end up the same.

gw2 has an amazing combat system and there are so few places where you can actually experience it fully (in pve) like you can in HoT. Don’t ask them to take this away from people who do “play for the challenge,” as DoctorDing says bc, guess what, those people would like to enjoy this game too.

off-topic, but one thing I do agree w/ that ding said tho is making hard mode versions of maps. bc then we could theoretically have one or a few megaservers running a “casual-friendly” version of the map and one or few running more challenging versions. would make old content more interesting to play (queensdale tuned for level 80 characters with all utilities/traits unlocked? sounds too to me haha) very unlikely to happen though as it’d probably be a huge undertaking on arenanet’s part with not much payoff for them I think.

leftyboy.9358:

If you want less challenge tyria has about 25 maps already for ya.

Keep in mind that all this new content is a payed expansion, wouldn’t be an issue if it was added in the core game like SW was for example.

Everyone payed the money for the expansion, not just a certain group of people. And you can’t blame them for that, the expansion was never advertised to be challenging in it’s entirety, just that it will have challenging content.

To put it in a different way, now that the general consensus is that HoT is a little challenging, do you think casual players will buy it? And if not, are there enough casual players around to hurt ANet income on the long run, or at least not reaping the full monetary benefits of what they could have?
Because ANet’s profits affects all the players and all the game.

Vocal minority who want it harder???

Totally untrue. And here’s why:

People are far, far more likely to post when they’re frustrated or angry than if they’re bored or feeling lackluster.

- For each person who posts screaming that things are too hard there are only ten more who don’t make the effort to post.

- But for each person who posts asking for things to be more complex and challenging there are hundreds who just shrugged their shoulders and wandered off to do something else because they were bored.

- For every complaint you hear about there are ten more you don’t.
- For every customer who says your performance was “good” there are a thousand more who don’t say it.
- For every person who takes the time to tell you you’re doing great there are about fifty more who are silent, but hopefully will tip!

I’d say 99 of 100 people who want more content that requires people to work together do NOT say anything. They just get bored with running around solo and turn the game off.

About half of the people who think things are too hard come to the forums and complain.

VaLee.5102:

leftyboy.9358:

If you want less challenge tyria has about 25 maps already for ya.

Keep in mind that all this new content is a payed expansion, wouldn’t be an issue if it was added in the core game like SW was for example.

Everyone payed the money for the expansion, not just a certain group of people. And you can’t blame them for that, the expansion was never advertised to be challenging in it’s entirety, just that it will have challenging content.

This.

I wonder what would sales be if ANet was clear its hardore only expansion, and if youre not “hardcore” yo have “other 25 areas to play in”

ANet shold have been frank about it and say in advance that HoT is:

- annoying (“difficult”)
- super grindy
- group only focused
- full of “prepare to have fun” and empty of “fun”

it wouldnt be that bad if the mega servers were working correctly.
yesterday i entered the 2nd map and joined a “zerg” of a commander and 5 people to do an event chain. after that i hardly saw any people at all. there was no post in map chat too. i finally gave up when couldnt advance further in the map as the mob density became to dense.
finally i joined the big main event where you have to defeat 4 enemy groups at the same time. i found that myself with 3 others had to fight 2 champs and a bunch of elites and vets that were constantly respawning at one of the event points.
after the wipe i left and decided to stop playing – there is a difference between hard content and frustrating content.

I have to admit, there is one and (IMHO) only one good reason to nerf content.

As much as I love the content the way it is, VaLee makes an excellent point here:

VaLee.5102:

Keep in mind that all this new content is a payed expansion, wouldn’t be an issue if it was added in the core game like SW was for example.

Everyone payed the money for the expansion, not just a certain group of people. And you can’t blame them for that, the expansion was never advertised to be challenging in it’s entirety, just that it will have challenging content.

People who want to play a much more relaxed style paid good money because it was strongly implied that challenging group content was referring to raids rather then just trying to walk from A to B. These people waited months and paid full price just like those of us who are hard core.

Maybe the solution here is to see if the megaserver rebalancing will provide enough players on each map to ensure that everyone, casuals included, will have enough help to get from a to b.

Fingers crossed.

VaLee.5102:

leftyboy.9358:

If you want less challenge tyria has about 25 maps already for ya.

Keep in mind that all this new content is a payed expansion, wouldn’t be an issue if it was added in the core game like SW was for example.

Everyone payed the money for the expansion, not just a certain group of people. And you can’t blame them for that, the expansion was never advertised to be challenging in it’s entirety, just that it will have challenging content.

To put it in a different way, now that the general consensus is that HoT is a little challenging, do you think casual players will buy it? And if not, are there enough casual players around to hurt ANet income on the long run, or at least not reaping the full monetary benefits of what they could have?
Because ANet’s profits affects all the players and all the game.

Ya I don’t know what to say I guess. It’s challenging for me without being unbearable, but I’ll respect that for some people it may be over that line. I’ve played a few mmo’s over the years and normally the world combat is so easy, it’s a snooze fest. After awhile if it’s all easy I just get bored, but that’s just my take on it.

VaLee.5102:

Please think on a big scale and in the long run. HoT will not always be end content.

…and as such it’s open to be changed in the future.

I think it’s too early to call.

The whole thing was rushed, that seems pretty apparent. Some elite specs still need a lot of work, raids aren’t even out yet, etc, etc.

You have to give the players that wanted harder content something at release. Some “casual” players really are showing some real selfishness this early after release, to make it clear I consider myself part of this demographic. At least wait till raids are released before worrying about the long term effect of the new open world content.

VaLee.5102:

Everyone payed the money for the expansion, not just a certain group of people. And you can’t blame them for that, the expansion was never advertised to be challenging in it’s entirety, just that it will have challenging content.

Again it was rushed, Anet are at fault for that. It would not surprise if the original plan was to make the open world content easier with the understanding raids would also be good to go. Then something went wrong and they seemingly freaked out, at least the HP saga and changes seem to indicate as much.

“Just ramp up the open-world difficulty and make specs 400HP, that should keep the hardcore happy till we get his sorted…hopefully the “casuals” will be ok with core till then"

This is blatant assumption but it really “feels” like this maybe the case.

Anet may have screwed this up by releasing it too early, by all accounts they seemed pretty nervous when the date leaked and they had to lock it in, but’s whats done is done and really whats a better scenario:

1.Release the expansion with something for those wanting a harder challenge while those not wanting it still have a festival and core content to entertain themselves with till they sort it.

2.Release the whole thing “easymode” and completely ignore one of these two player demographics.

It really seems to be the lesser of two evils till they get it sorted. This may scare many casual players away but again, whats done is done, and in the non-subscription model it’s not like they won’t ever come back after paying a fair chunk of coin. If casual players can’t at least find something to do till raids come out with all the other available content and ditch the game entirely…well….not sure what to say to that.

Is the open world content a kittenallenging? yes compared with old open world difficulty. Is it manageable? For me, totally, as far as you dont run with full zerker you will survive fine if you dont go solo certain hero points well most hero point champ is actually solo-able to be honest, just some really need to group up to fight the boss mechanic.

Im in the group of players who are hardcore in terms of imporve skills, but very casual regarding those pure time consuming contents. I spend literally thousands of hours in fighting games to improve my skill level but I also understand this is an mmo, time consuming content is needed to satisfy those of whom get conditioned by traditional mmos. Thats why Im fine with the mastery system and dislike the old Elite HP cost requirement cuz it significantly limited the way I could to enjoy the new maps and leveling mastery in order to unlock your elite is no challenging by all means, it just huge exp farming, no skill required. Lots of ppl mistakenly think time consuming=challenging which in most cases are not.

Ultimately, it will not be decided by what we say on the forum. It will be decided by cold, hard numbers – the sales figures and the ongoing population figures.

I can’t believe the intention was to target the expansion solely at the harder-core players. It would not make any commercial sense at all to target just a subset of the customers. The reason all those other games’ open-world content can be described by some as a “snoozefest” is because that’s how they attract and retain a large chunk of players. So it needs a balance of both to be successful.

The difficulty is fine. I’m totally casual (play less than 5 hours a week) and don’t find it that hard, really. The HP were too grindy, and the elites were too important to push them that far into the content.
Please don’t mix things: hard content is fine, tedious content is not.

Cameirus.8407:

leftyboy.9358:

Maybe stupid question, but why not just run past mob packs you dont want to fight?

you cant. Most have some form of blink attack, or slow, or teleport you back…..

And there’s the 30%(?) slow-down you get when you go into combat because, as somebody else put it, Anet wants you to not run past mobs but to deal with them.

They might be able to satisfy both sides by decreasing trash mob density (some areas have large numbers of strong mobs, just standing there) rather than decreasing difficulty. Allow for people to more easily run to get to where they want but keep the fights at the current level for when they do fight.

Cameirus.8407:

leftyboy.9358:

Maybe stupid question, but why not just run past mob packs you dont want to fight?

you cant. Most have some form of blink attack, or slow, or teleport you back…..

And often they are placed in narrow cliff side corridors. In numbers.

fireflyry.7023:

VaLee.5102:

Please think on a big scale and in the long run. HoT will not always be end content.

…and as such it’s open to be changed in the future.

I think it’s too early to call.

The whole thing was rushed, that seems pretty apparent. Some elite specs still need a lot of work, raids aren’t even out yet, etc, etc.

You have to give the players that wanted harder content something at release. Some “casual” players really are showing some real selfishness this early after release, to make it clear I consider myself part of this demographic. At least wait till raids are released before worrying about the long term effect of the new open world content.

VaLee.5102:

Everyone payed the money for the expansion, not just a certain group of people. And you can’t blame them for that, the expansion was never advertised to be challenging in it’s entirety, just that it will have challenging content.

Again it was rushed, Anet are at fault for that. It would not surprise if the original plan was to make the open world content easier with the understanding raids would also be good to go. Then something went wrong and they seemingly freaked out, at least the HP saga and changes seem to indicate as much.

“Just ramp up the open-world difficulty and make specs 400HP, that should keep the hardcore happy till we get his sorted…hopefully the “casuals” will be ok with core till then"

This is blatant assumption but it really “feels” like this maybe the case.

Anet may have screwed this up by releasing it too early, by all accounts they seemed pretty nervous when the date leaked and they had to lock it in, but’s whats done is done and really whats a better scenario:

1.Release the expansion with something for those wanting a harder challenge while those not wanting it still have a festival and core content to entertain themselves with till they sort it.

2.Release the whole thing “easymode” and completely ignore one of these two player demographics.

It really seems to be the lesser of two evils till they get it sorted. This may scare many casual players away but again, whats done is done, and in the non-subscription model it’s not like they won’t ever come back after paying a fair chunk of coin. If casual players can’t at least find something to do till raids come out with all the other available content and ditch the game entirely…well….not sure what to say to that.

I hope you are wrong. But I cannot deny that what you say makes sense. I had my doubts about the whole time line of the expansion before. I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised about the quality of the content. If this is rushed content than they made at least certain that what they released had quality. Maybe to difficult, but quality.

What OP is saying is what I read in other places. And what I hear from some players. Why is the expansion only for hardcore players? You can argue if that is true or not but if too many players think that ArenaNet (and we) have a problem.

My GF is self admittedly as casual as they come and she’s been a very hard sell on the expansion. Enemy difficulty is one of the few things she hasn’t complained about.

People throwing around the term ‘hardcore’.
Hardcore players are those that invest a lot of time and money into the game, those that make the game their life and do nothing but play the game 24/7 and who have done most of the content at the highest level.

People who know how to play the game and not die constantly are not hardcore, they’re just average, casual players.
Yes, ‘casual’ players can afford to improve, it doesn’t take a lot of time to hover over the skills and read what they do.
‘’Oh, this skill knocks things back, maybe I shouldn’t push mobs out of all the AoE and that way it’ll die quicker’’.
If someone struggles with that kind of logic then they rightly shouldn’t be able to access or complete all of the content.
Rewarding players who put in a little more effort (not time – effort) doesn’t mean they’re punishing people who don’t put the effort in, the opportunity is still there.

People moaned when Sanctum Sprint was introduced, about them not getting a completely optional achievement because ’I’m casual’ or ‘my wrist hurts’, they all started vilifying people who could actually get the achievement, saying that if you had already won a race, you should stop at the finish line and let other people win.
They wanted their achievement handed to them by other players because they didn’t want to put in the effort of getting it themselves.

Not everyone can do all the content, and there is nothing wrong with that.
If ‘casual’ players don’t like challenge, there’s a whole market dedicated to them on mobile phones.

I do think that scaling in the new zone is off. I find myself having a way easier time solo on my daredevil. As soon as a group of players show up, it takes way too long to kill mobs. I am fine with the damage scaling since you can more easily get a rez from the “zerg”, but the health scaling seems too extreme for regular mobs. I fought a raptor (normal size) for about 3 minutes before killing it, because above me there was an event with a lot of players. I thought I was bugged before realizing what was happening.

I like the challenge, but I don’t want to dread the arrival of other players.

VaLee.5102:

Keep in mind that a lot of the casual players cannot afford to improve, they have limited gameplay time, real life responsabilities, etc and they just want to relax a couple of hours a week for example.

I completely disagree. If you are in HoT trying to unlock high level items then this is exactly what is needed to happen.

This is not supposed to be mastered in a day. I thought the enemies were too hard, but I simply figured out the enemies and now I rarely die.

Is it hard? Yes! It’s supposed to be.

Sometimes you have to know when to run away from a fight. Orr is not a similar comparison… maybe Southsun Cove is more a similar comparison.

You dont see people soloing 2 Vet Karka’s for example. Most wouldn’t waste their time and run to the next mob that they can take out quicker.

Use LFG tool. It is your friend.

My two cents, I think HoT so far is fun. It’s not too challenging either, you just have to figure out how to get around obstacles. I consider myself a casual player, I haven’t touched GW2 in almost a year.

Events are actually interesting, I feel like they live up more to the original promise the core GW2 failed to deliver (example: “Help! We’re being attacked by [insert random monster].” And then you just run around and kill X monsters). There’s a lot of variety in enemies, and they all have different mechanics which requires some more thoughtful game play.

The personal story is very engaging as well, and it works for someone like me who’s unfamiliar with the characters because there isn’t really any expectation for you to know them beforehand.

So far, I think there’s still plenty of people running around to be able to tackle most of the challenging content.

MikaHR.1978:

VaLee.5102:

leftyboy.9358:

If you want less challenge tyria has about 25 maps already for ya.

Keep in mind that all this new content is a payed expansion, wouldn’t be an issue if it was added in the core game like SW was for example.

Everyone payed the money for the expansion, not just a certain group of people. And you can’t blame them for that, the expansion was never advertised to be challenging in it’s entirety, just that it will have challenging content.

This.

I wonder what would sales be if ANet was clear its hardore only expansion, and if youre not “hardcore” yo have “other 25 areas to play in”

ANet shold have been frank about it and say in advance that HoT is:

- annoying (“difficult”)
- super grindy
- group only focused
- full of “prepare to have fun” and empty of “fun”

And on top of that
- a nightmare to navigate and explore

Heck .. a lot of people already hated Dry Top for that.

And yes .. i payed 100 € for content i don’t like to play at all at the moment, and
i didn’t even got some new skins for that. So if it leaves that way i will NOT buy
any other expansion for GW2.

The Content will get easier with time passing by.

And the reason for that ist not that Anet just nerfes them (at least I hope not) but simply because the “hard core” player (who also an huge faction that dont think of themselves as hard core player) will learn more tactics to bet the jungle and adjust the build to the main weaknesses they have. And then share it with the rest of the playerbase. Look at dungeons. Look at the silverwaste. Look at any other content.

The right build and the right tactic is so much more important then having exotic or legendary equiment. They determine if you fail horrible or can clear the content rather smothly.

So my tip to anyone who has trouble with the difficulty of the jungle. Look in your classforums for tips and builds. Or ask ingame what the “hard core” – player are running. We should be the friendliest community ever, right guys?

Beldin.5498:

Heck .. a lot of people already hated Dry Top for that.

Dude. After walking through the maps at first I felt lost, but now I get it hands down.

These maps are awesome and I am able to figure it out now.

I love the exploration aspect of not knowing where I am.

VaLee.5102:

And please think about this in general, do not mindlessy reply, do you think releasing an expansion designed to a single target audience is good for the game in the long run?

Yes, but only when you aim it at your core target audience. Which, obviously, is no the case here.

VaLee.5102:

Do you think the casual players will quit the expansion maps after the hype is gone?

Not, but only because i’m sure there will be a lot more “balancing down” of the new content in the months to come. Thematically and visually the new maps are way better than drab and dark Orr. After the difficulty of the events and density of the mob spawns (as well as some mastery gating cases) will get adjusted, it might become one of the popular spots. Without it… well, i’d expect it to empty relatively soon. There’s also no equivalent of SW farming (at least not one i have noticed so far) that might have kept the maps alive for longer for other reasons.

Tyrantis.8640:

Beldin.5498:

Heck .. a lot of people already hated Dry Top for that.

Dude. After walking through the maps at first I felt lost, but now I get it hands down.

These maps are awesome and I am able to figure it out now.

I love the exploration aspect of not knowing where I am.

Thats great for you .. but we don’t talk here about all you super platformer gamers
and Lupi solo, Mai Trin lvl 50 solo and whatever gods among us mortals.

For me its just frustrating when i run 1-2 hours through a map and don’t find
any waypoint or not even the next story chapter. Or i finally found some other
players, harvest a herb .. and they are away and i simply can’t find them anymore.

VaLee.5102:

To begin with, this is not a discussion about masteries or hero points, but the expansion as a whole.

We all know there was a large group of people who were asking for challenging content in GW2, and I was one of them. But I think the way they implemented in HoT was something like “They want hard content? We will give them hard content! YOLO!”.

You don’t make a whole expansion cattered just for the a certain group of people, there needs to be a balance. There were other MMOs that went full hardcore and we all know how they ended.
Now you got the situation where the more casual of the players (which are quite a lot) are uttermost frustrated and are not enjoying the content.

They could’ve left the meta events in the maps and raids as challeging content, while leaving the general maps accessible for those who are just interested in exploring, gathering, doing little events, etc. That way you would please both groups of players.
Adventures are a good example of content done right, you have the Bronze tier pretty much accessible to anyone, while the Gold tiers will probably be done by those who want a challenge.

I don’t think any of the hardcore players really enjoy random packs of elite mobs placed everywhere for no reason either.
The new maps feel like Orr on release, with more leaves. And we all know how Orr ended up, even now after the nerf, the only people who go there are the ones doing the Cursed Shore train and the ones going for map completion.

And please think about this in general, do not mindlessy reply, do you think releasing an expansion designed to a single target audience is good for the game in the long run?
Do you think the casual players will quit the expansion maps after the hype is gone? And if yes, how will that affect the game in those areas?

Keep in mind that a lot of the casual players cannot afford to improve, they have limited gameplay time, real life responsabilities, etc and they just want to relax a couple of hours a week for example.

I don’t think releasing content with a single audience in mind is a good idea. The people I know who play this game, and myself, enjoy it when it’s the open world with a lot of people. My only real problem with the direction of the new content is the increasing presence of snares. It just gets old having 5 mobs yank you around while you’re just trying to run by. That needs to be dialed back. I think they’ve got a good organization about targeting content to player types. The hero points have champions on them is a bit much, but it’s not gamebreaking.

Beldin.5498:

Tyrantis.8640:

Beldin.5498:

Heck .. a lot of people already hated Dry Top for that.

Dude. After walking through the maps at first I felt lost, but now I get it hands down.

These maps are awesome and I am able to figure it out now.

I love the exploration aspect of not knowing where I am.

Thats great for you .. but we don’t talk here about all you super platformer gamers
and Lupi solo, Mai Trin lvl 50 solo and whatever gods among us mortals.

For me its just frustrating when i run 1-2 hours through a map and don’t find
any waypoint or not even the next story chapter. Or i finally found some other
players, harvest a herb .. and they are away and i simply can’t find them anymore.

just ask for refund, thats much better statement than anything you can do on forums.

I like how this is (or used to be?) for all types of gamers. From casual to hardcores. From people who enjoy battling NPCs to going after each other.

Even though I play in pretty much all of my free time some will derogatorily say I am a casual player as if it were an insult. So? Is it some sort of a fault that I would rather be playing what I like (which means fleshing out stories and backgrounds) than trying to play the way someone else enjoys?

If anything anet has done too much for ‘hardcore’ gamers (for example, I still think the lowered HP threshold is too high and that limit applies to casuals and hardcores alike). As was said, there are plenty of games out there that cater to hardcores. They do not bring in the money though as their focus is not on things like gem store items as much.

I like that everyone can play the way that is most fun for them. As long as they do not try to make the game less fun for others. Unfortunately anet needs to learn that concept too it seems.

DoctorDing.5890:

I can’t help but think they have lost touch with their core audience.

I think this happened shortly after launch. It was marketed as a fairly niche game, but got an huge response. When sales vastly exceeded projections, ArenaNet quickly fell into the trap of trying to please everyone.

This explains why development has lurched from one direction to another over the course of the last three years. First it was the MMORPG for people who hate MMORPGs, then it was “we need progression for the carrot chasers lets add Ascended” and along the way we’ve experienced “let’s focus on the dungeon crowd” the “large guild crowd”, the “casual just log in for a little time crowd” and several others.

When you say “their core audience”, who do you think that is? Because if I was just trying to identify it by looking back over game development, I’d be at a total loss to know what that core audience was supposed to be.

I think the challenging level is just right. I wouldn’t want to walk around like a Jesus smiting foes left and right without even a bruise. That is not fun. It is the direction that a game like WoW took more and more until they milked any challenge out of it many years ago. Also take Diablo 3 as an example as well. My opnion.

The content in HoT is absolutely fine, and geared toward meaningful play-time. I’m sorry if you’d rather just pick up a game and blow through it, but a great majority enjoy improving their play-skill and conquering challenges.

I feel you. At start of HoT I felt infuriated by how hard mobs are in these new zones. Insta deaths, not being able to progress sometimes and this tree-maze, gosh!…

But you know what? After several days I’ve learned how to run through them, how to mitigate, dodge properly, use all my skills to survive and go further when I’m alone in the jungle. I also try to stick to people. Together we will survive. No other way in this hostile (but so lovely) teritory.

And thank gods Anet is fixing problems with megaserver so you won’t find empty maps.

How about overal idea?

Yes, after all, we do enter hostile enviromnent. Where Mordremoth is the Jungle. He wants to kill us, thus whole place wants us dead. It has to be hostile, harsh, unwelcome. This is what I really enjoy. I’m in a middle of nightmare created by my enemy to take me down. Despite that I prevail and push forward. Against the odds. And I bet when we get used to it we will all be very pleased with the difficulty level. I hope Anet won’t nerf it down… it would be a waste of entire idea of this expansion.

Another thing -how about new players, how to get used to, being casual and similar problems that relate to hardness of new content.
All I can say that there are a lot of friendly people who will help, who will come to you and guide you or help kill that champion who guards your hero challenge. Don’t be affraid to ask on chat for help.

Cheers;)

hmmm, perhaps i am wrong there, i consider myself a casual player, i am … well, lets say middle-aged whatever that means, and altho i am always a bit wary of jumping content, like where faolain chases you, which is, indeed, the only part of the game i could do a bit without, even that, i manage at 2nd or 3rd try, providing the wife does not need my attention all in a sudden …

i find HoT content nice and just the right amount challenging, especially after having played it a week or so. indeed, it takes some time to get used to a few things. mostly i find that some of the longer encounters are a tad too long, some champions have huge amounts of HP, and, i am indeed exaggerating here, after 5 mins of the same mechanics, it gets old. but otherwise ? great content. thank you anet

puts on hardcore hat

Maguuma has quite a few new mobs with new mechanics, or mechanics that are an old mechanic on crack. Learning how to handle those mechanics means you’ll be better able to take them down.

The most significant trend seems to be mobs that charge through you in some capacity. Rolling Devils, Mushrooms, Centau- I mean, those mordrem on mounts. A lot of that type are a more robust and dangerous version of the old Centaurs that charge you.

The other main type is mobs that go stealth and then drop crap on you or port away and shoot you from afar. The Froggy Things™ who go stealth and the Mordrem Snipers, who go stealth and then drop teragriff type lines on the ground.

Having a few CC attacks on hand is probably a good idea for these zones, as well as some gap closers / teleports as your class allows. Speed will allow you to outrun mobs if you wish. CC will give you time to hit them, or slow them down, depending on whether you want to run or fight.

Reflects will have some use for the ranged enemies if your class has them, but I find the easiest way to take down the ranged type is to hit them with a stun or KD and then burst them down as quickly as you can.

Stability will help you avoid KD from charging mobs, but won’t necessarily keep you alive. Again, stunning or KDing them can help, or dodging to the side when they charge.

Oh and when you’re fighting mobs that have a break bar, be sure to abuse it liberally. Wait for the bar to turn blue and then throw all the CC you’ve got at it (cripple does not seem to count btw… I’m not sure what all CC counts). If you break their bar, it will usually give you an advantage. I’m not 100% clear on what the advantage is, but for some mobs, it seems to slow or stun them for a time.

There is an adjustment period for playing HoT versus the old Tyrian content. But, just like when the new Teq came, people complained that it would only be doable by a fully organized group. For a short time that was true, but the playerbase overtime adjusted to what the fight takes and now, Teq is on complete farm mode. The same thing will happen in HoT’s open world content. It just requires a bit more overall focus and skill right now, but if people stick it out for a just a bit… learn how to build their characters in a playstyle that works for them and the content, they will be able to overcome the increased difficulty and get completely used to it.

Why is it that people who protest this expansion associate hardcore with anything that takes a few seconds or more to think about? Hardcore open world would be if every mob in the game had the potential to kill you as quickly as another player would in pvp (dodges, invulnerability, healing, all included).

The open world in HoT is barely difficult. It makes you have to think and readjust yes, but once you figure it out it’s very simple and easy.

Tbh, I think Anet hit it right on the head in terms of balance. There have been many areas in HoT where I just casually avoid mobs or I could maneuver around them. There are some areas where I have to stop and fight. It’s really not a big deal. I think the people who cry “hardcore” on the forums are the ones overreacting imo.

Voluptus.3509:

I’d say 99 of 100 people who want more content that requires people to work together do NOT say anything. They just get bored with running around solo and turn the game off.

About half of the people who think things are too hard come to the forums and complain.

I am sorry, but you just pulled those numbers straight out from your dark place. I could as well say that I have a tangible evidence that 76% of players are happy because of HP nerf. Why? Because reasons.

Yes.

It was Anet that over-reacted.

Yep.

Please give me my GW1 party of heroes back and I will be happy to play this expansion

While I’m all for harder fights, I think the OP has a point. Unfortunately, all we can do is spitball how “many” are in each camp. ANet will have a better idea. However, it’s going to take time for this to shake out. The true test will be what the maps are like once the initial exploration push is done with and most of the players are only bothering to farm the meta events for shinies.

Flesh may be on to something, though. It’s a compromise, but unlike many, it does leave those who like challenge with interesting fights. If they want more mobs at once, they can always gather ’em up.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

They might be able to satisfy both sides by decreasing trash mob density (some areas have large numbers of strong mobs, just standing there) rather than decreasing difficulty. Allow for people to more easily run to get to where they want but keep the fights at the current level for when they do fight.