ANet might've overreacted?

ANet might've overreacted?

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Posted by: Shorok.9706

Shorok.9706

CHERRY PICKING, that’s all this is. Cherry picking, every one is taking something out of context to raise their subjective information. This is Subjective information, this is your opinion on the game, YOUR OPINION! Where are your sources? Link your statistics? You keep throwing out numbers, percentages, and referring to other games. Where? Link an article written by a DEV. Stop cherry picking each other. Show me actual valid written proof of your claims. That making hard core content is what kills a game. Wildstar flopped for a lot of reasons. But of course, you wont list them all, you’ll just cherry pick things to make your argument valid.

Why did Anet make HoT hard….Because we wanted it. The community as a whole wanted it, and where are my sources? Colin, from Anet when they went to pax! The community requested harder content. The casuals that claim that they should make content for every one? They did make it for every one, every one here complaining the HoT is to hard? Bull crap! If you keep dying, then group up! Oh no! You mean you have to talk to strangers! In an MMO! What will you do! GASP! You have a life out side of the game with real life responsibilities? You cant be asked to actually apply yourself to the game for rewards?

That is utter crap! The term Casual is wrong! Casual means a lot of things, Umbrella term is the phrase. Every one is cherry picking! There’s that term again! CHERRY PICKING. You are taking information out of context, to make your argument valid. But it doesn’t make it valid, it makes it childish! If you don’t like Gw2, here’s some advice

STOP PLAYING IT!

Casual: The term or idea of a player that does not play a game for extended period if time:
Casual:The idea that a player enjoys the game, wants to be good at it, and wants to take the time to be good at it, but doesn’t have the time to play as much as they like.
Casual: The idea of a player that wants rewards, wants to feel special, with out actually doing any work.<—— This one applies to most of the people in this thread.
Casual:Plays the game simply because they enjoy it, they don’t freak out or Q.Q when they die, or lose a boss battle. They simply get up, crack a joke and try again.<—-That’s me.

There are over 4 million people subscribed to Gw2, As many of you claim, more then half of those are Casuals. If you can get a written supported claim of 1 million people that are Casuals Claiming that the game is to hard? Then I’ll recant my response, and bow to your ideal’s, and you cant just say so, you have to actually show me the proof! But I am 90% sure, most of you will read this post, scoff at it, and utterly ignore it.

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Posted by: Mintyfresh.2539

Mintyfresh.2539

I died a few times and some stuff was challenging.
If I did hit that barrier, there were at times many people willing to help out or I just decided to venture into the area when more people were around.

Last but not the least, I actually took some traits that helped me escape from stuff.
I actually swapped out my zerker gear for a condi dire gear-set(and mind you i’m SUPER casual, hell by the time i swap stuff out, i convert it to ectos because I don’t have space left!).

So overall I think I had to make some choices to really succeed, but nevertheless it was enjoyable.

“Religion. It’s given people hope in a world torn apart by religion.”—Jon Stewart

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Posted by: Harper.4173

Harper.4173

To begin with, this is not a discussion about masteries or hero points, but the expansion as a whole.

We all know there was a large group of people who were asking for challenging content in GW2, and I was one of them. But I think the way they implemented in HoT was something like “They want hard content? We will give them hard content! YOLO!”.

You don’t make a whole expansion cattered just for the a certain group of people, there needs to be a balance. There were other MMOs that went full hardcore and we all know how they ended.
Now you got the situation where the more casual of the players (which are quite a lot) are uttermost frustrated and are not enjoying the content.

They could’ve left the meta events in the maps and raids as challeging content, while leaving the general maps accessible for those who are just interested in exploring, gathering, doing little events, etc. That way you would please both groups of players.
Adventures are a good example of content done right, you have the Bronze tier pretty much accessible to anyone, while the Gold tiers will probably be done by those who want a challenge.

I don’t think any of the hardcore players really enjoy random packs of elite mobs placed everywhere for no reason either.
The new maps feel like Orr on release, with more leaves. And we all know how Orr ended up, even now after the nerf, the only people who go there are the ones doing the Cursed Shore train and the ones going for map completion.

And please think about this in general, do not mindlessy reply, do you think releasing an expansion designed to a single target audience is good for the game in the long run?
Do you think the casual players will quit the expansion maps after the hype is gone? And if yes, how will that affect the game in those areas?

Keep in mind that a lot of the casual players cannot afford to improve, they have limited gameplay time, real life responsabilities, etc and they just want to relax a couple of hours a week for example.

My limited play experience with HoT allowed me to “meta zerk” everything – I had to change 1 utility skill.

The difficulty is not harder through mobs but rather through the fact that the areas suffer from a lack of players to team up with ( since most events are obviously scaled with more people in mind).

Another issue is the fact that most maps are incredibly difficult and obnoxious to navigate – it’s not the desired “i’m having a hard time doing this but I’m enjoying the challenge” but rather the “this is not hard just terribly obnoxious and confusing”.

If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

Guys please stop derailing the topic…
This is not a topic about whether you like the content or not or whether you are a pro or a noob.

It doesn’t matter how bad a player is, if he won’t buy the expansion or any of the future expansions then that’s an opportunity lost for ANet.

The point of this whole topic is that an expansion should have a balance in order to catter for all kind of players to maximize profits and population, and HoT currently doesn’t. And this impacts all of us on the long run.
At least that’s my opinion.

Problem: What some player types like directly conflicts with what other player types like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxpW2ltDNow

Sanity is for the weak minded.
YouTube

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Posted by: morrolan.9608

morrolan.9608

Why did Anet make HoT hard….Because we wanted it. The community as a whole wanted it, and where are my sources? Colin, from Anet when they went to pax! The community requested harder content.

Which is there with raids and higher end fractals. MMOs require different levels of content if Colin doesn’t know this well……………. Wildstar is a lesson for any mmo developer. And story content and acquiring new abilities should be on the low end because that is what everyone will want to do. Even having said that the content is not hard, its just a tedious grind. Masteries are a grind but it doesn’t bother me that much because most of them are not necessary.

Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

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Posted by: lynspottery.6529

lynspottery.6529

Those HoT maps are big. There is plenty of room to accommodate players of all skill levels. Maybe Anet need to learn from GW1 and have a hard mode version of each map for those who are “in it to win it” rather than ramping up the difficulty in the normal maps.

Put simply: some players don’t play for the challenge.

I did not play GW1, but I think this is a great idea. Reminds me of dungeons and raids that can be selected on Tour, Regular or Hard Mode from other games.

(edited by lynspottery.6529)

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Posted by: Dengar.1785

Dengar.1785

I am extremely puzzled by this discussion. I’m casual as kitten, but I why do people complain about it being too hard? It’s further into the game, “beyond level 80”. Just step up your game a little and you’ll be fine. I explored a lot of the map just ignoring enemies. Yeah I died a few times, even right in front of that waypoint I tried to tag, but such is life. That happened to me in vanilla GW2 as well. I’m not sure what the issue is.

Or is it just that you’re using zerker gear?

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Posted by: Shorok.9706

Shorok.9706

What a surprise! Some one Cherry Picked my post. They read the whole thing, then took one part to make their argument valid! -sighs- Kids

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

Those HoT maps are big. There is plenty of room to accommodate players of all skill levels. Maybe Anet need to learn from GW1 and have a hard mode version of each map for those who are “in it to win it” rather than ramping up the difficulty in the normal maps.

Put simply: some players don’t play for the challenge.

I did not play GW1, but I think this is a great idea. Reminds me of dungeons and raids that can be selected on Tour, Regular or Hard Mode from other games.

Anet has repeatedly stated they don’t want to so this, because they “don’t want to split the player base.” What they don’t acknowledge is that splitting the player base is better for the player base. Think about it… players who prefer normal can have normal, and those who prefer harder can have harder. Yet ANet insists on one-size-fits-all when it should be clear that this is not in the best interests of either group.

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Posted by: seshat.9652

seshat.9652

Uhh.. anyone who can’t do the HOT content could maybe download a game where you find cats in the jungle and they purr, and u can walk around and pet them and sing… yah.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

CHERRY PICKING, that’s all this is. Cherry picking, every one is taking something out of context to raise their subjective information. This is Subjective information, this is your opinion on the game, YOUR OPINION! Where are your sources? Link your statistics? You keep throwing out numbers, percentages, and referring to other games. Where? Link an article written by a DEV. Stop cherry picking each other. Show me actual valid written proof of your claims. That making hard core content is what kills a game. Wildstar flopped for a lot of reasons. But of course, you wont list them all, you’ll just cherry pick things to make your argument valid.

Why did Anet make HoT hard….Because we wanted it. The community as a whole wanted it,

To quote you, “Link your statistics.”

and where are my sources? Colin, from Anet when they went to pax!

To quote you, “Show me actual valid written proof of your claims.” Where exactly did Colin say that the whole community wanted harder content? What were his exact words. Where is the supporting documentation to show that he was correct in his representation of what the whole community wanted?

The community requested harder content.

To quote you, “Link your statistics.”

The casuals that claim that they should make content for every one? They did make it for every one,

Physical impossibility. You cannot make something that will suit everyone. Anet knows this, so should everyone else.

every one here complaining the HoT is to hard? Bull crap! If you keep dying, then group up! Oh no! You mean you have to talk to strangers! In an MMO! What will you do! GASP! You have a life out side of the game with real life responsibilities? You cant be asked to actually apply yourself to the game for rewards?

To quote you, “this is your opinion on the game, YOUR OPINION!”

That is utter crap! The term Casual is wrong! Casual means a lot of things, Umbrella term is the phrase. Every one is cherry picking!

Using umbrella terms means that one is not cherry picking. Cherry picking means to latch onto a specific phrase, element, or point while using umbrella terms means one is encompassing a broad scope of elements, perhaps to the exclusion okittennowledging details. Almost antonyms really.

If you don’t like Gw2, here’s some advice

STOP PLAYING IT!

One of the better points to be made in this sort of discussion. Even so it is not necessarily the best advice. Changing what one does not like into something that one does like is a valid approach to life.

Casual: The term or idea of a player that does not play a game for extended period if time:
Casual:The idea that a player enjoys the game, wants to be good at it, and wants to take the time to be good at it, but doesn’t have the time to play as much as they like.
Casual: The idea of a player that wants rewards, wants to feel special, with out actually doing any work.<—— This one applies to most of the people in this thread.
Casual:Plays the game simply because they enjoy it, they don’t freak out or Q.Q when they die, or lose a boss battle. They simply get up, crack a joke and try again.<—-That’s me.

Your definitions of the word seem reasonable to me. Being accepted by both you and I does not make them anything more than opinion though.

There are over 4 million people subscribed to Gw2,

To quote you, “Link your statistics? You keep throwing out numbers…”

I would really love to see evidence to show that:

1) Anet has changed GW2’s business model to include a subscription.
2) That there are over four million active players.*

Responses in bold.

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Posted by: Diba.4682

Diba.4682

Guys please stop derailing the topic…
This is not a topic about whether you like the content or not or whether you are a pro or a noob.

It doesn’t matter how bad a player is, if he won’t buy the expansion or any of the future expansions then that’s an opportunity lost for ANet.

The point of this whole topic is that an expansion should have a balance in order to catter for all kind of players to maximize profits and population, and HoT currently doesn’t. And this impacts all of us on the long run.
At least that’s my opinion.

I am not really sure what you are trying to say. Isn’t up to Anet to target what they want to do with their game and what audience they want to target? I see no reason for this post to be concerned with about the financial production for Anet so please do not bring that into this.

Now mentioning that the balance of difficulty is not fitting for you is okay, I can work with that and comment better. what I do not know is what exactly is too hard for you and what you propose should be easier? Or different if not necessarily about difficulty?

I consider myself an easy going/casual player and nothing so far has been too hard or frustrating for me. Actually… I was about to wonder if anyone posted if this content was too easy or else simple. Therefore I really would not know what to do with “balance in order to catter for all kind of players” because it looks fine to me.

Next, it is hard to make a game that fits everyone’s desire, this game is far from what I want it to be. Yet I do see that there is something for everyone. Give it some time and as people start figuring out how to play the new maps it will be smooth and easy again. Not saying everything is perfect, there are probably a thousand things I would change, but I do not understand how it is imbalanced.

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Posted by: kankanKk.2748

kankanKk.2748

Remember how hard is orr on release, and how easy now.
Player will learn how to play the game, you cannot master everything on first day.
I dont think we need to balance the game for ppl who dont even learn game mechanic after 3 years gameplay.

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Posted by: lynspottery.6529

lynspottery.6529

Uhh.. anyone who can’t do the HOT content could maybe download a game where you find cats in the jungle and they purr, and u can walk around and pet them and sing… yah.

I am not finding the HoT content all that difficult as long as you run with friends or manage to group up when the events start. I learned a long time ago that, as much as I like to solo and explore, most areas that have dynamic events or zone bosses, are best done in the company of others.

So far, I’ve been doing much better than I was when I started out. But at least tonight I was able to run around the HoT maps with some guild mates…made it much more reasonable even if we did have some problems with vets and a champ we ran across.

But I was commenting because a lot of my guild mates are very casual players. Some of them really prefer to solo most of the time. However, we have been discussing pulling together some guild runs for those who want to do the new zone but are hamstrung because of the time they have available to play in the game and finding folks to help with some of the events they need for skill points and such.

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

Remember how hard is orr on release, and how easy now.

Funny how often people bring that (or Teq) up, while conveniently forgetting to mention that it is indeed easier… because it got nerfed several times.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

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Posted by: Okhu.7948

Okhu.7948

Or maybe just maybe Anet didn’t overreact. But the player base that uses the forums did. (As usual) the new content isn’t that difficult, and Anet shouldn’t have to hold a bunch of peoples hands. The new content IS a tad grindy however, I’d be happy with them making it slightly less so.

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Posted by: Oldirtbeard.9834

Oldirtbeard.9834

I couldn’t agree more with your original post OP, I’m barely functioning with a tanky build stacked with toughness on a Reaper.

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Posted by: MikaHR.1978

MikaHR.1978

Or maybe just maybe Anet didn’t overreact. But the player base that uses the forums did. (As usual) the new content isn’t that difficult, and Anet shouldn’t have to hold a bunch of peoples hands. The new content IS a tad grindy however, I’d be happy with them making it slightly less so.

Nope, they did what “commuinty” told the to do just like Carbine did what “community” told them to do. Then community crapped all over who said they are a tad on idiot side (just like here), and then Wildstar launched. And results are well known.

Now Carbine is begging players to come back, as they have “dumbified” WS considerably and “community” is long gone and crapping all over Wildstar for being “dumbified”.

Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”

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Posted by: aikatara.3462

aikatara.3462

In my opinion Anet did not overreact. I consider the difficulty to be perfect as it is. And I am no hardcore player. I play GW2 just for over a year now and there is still a lot of stuff I cannot use properly (in terms of skills and traits). We have tons of casual maps in GW2. And now we actually got a few that are indeed challenging. I love the challenges of the HoT maps. It just takes a bit of coordination and maybe the easy accessible mentor tag can help the players to organise themselves if no commanders ae on the map.

But when I read all these thread I fear the new maps will get tuned down to the usual easy-going ways and at least I will be very very sad. It makes me afraid of getting too used to HoT because since reading the negative comments in the forums I constantly fear they will take away all the fun by nerfing it too much.

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Posted by: Caerbanog.3410

Caerbanog.3410

The open world difficulty is fine. You can go anywhere and if the density of monster is too high at some place, just run and avoid them.

Most of the hero points, even with champion can be done alone. The only annoying thing is when trashmobs (like these bad frogs) are on the hero points and then respawn while you are fighting the champion.

I have only one thing to say for the difficulty of HoT:
- In core Tyria, i can complete the same map on two different accounts at the same time (one hand on the keyboard of my laptop and the other on the keyboard of my tower). It’s just tedious for some heart, like the one with hungry rabbits.
- In HoT, with one hand, it’s really hard but using two hands, it’s fine.

The main problem is that many players do not know even the basis of how to play. They only follow the zerg and faceroll every skill they have. While this could be fine in the core Tyria where the open world is the “practice mode”, some high lvl map and majority of dungeon the “easy mode”, some dungeon paths and fractal the “normal mode”, in HoT, there is only “normal mode” maps and some things a little hard.

To player complaining about the difficulty I can only advise you something. Difficulty of many game is about two things => bad design or bad attitude.

Bad design it’s when you lost because the camera turn at the bad moment, you pressed the button but the character did not the desired action, the bad guy hits you even if you think that you evaded the attack. When the game-play is bad, you can do nothing, you lose because the game made you lose.

But on other hand, some games have a really robust game-play and when you lose, it’s not because of the game but because of you. For example, in Dark Soul, when you first play the game, you die every 10 seconds, all mobs one shoot you, you cry, you try the same boss one hundred time before killing him. But after hours and hours, you progress into the game and maybe one day even finish it. At that time, you start a new play from the beginning and you realize that all mobs are slow, that you can easily kill them and you progress smoothly through the game. Why? Just because you learned the game-play and how to react to your environment. Now, you mastered the game.

In GW2 it’s the same thing, for some encounters like Liadri, some fractals you need to mastered the game to efficiently do the content. The big problem with GW2 is that for 95% of the game, you don’t need to master anything and just follow the zerg with you auto-attack.

This is why HoT seem very difficult for a part of the playerbase. These player only know the “practice mode” and never have to use all the tools offered by the game. So when they go in HoT open-world, they find only “normal/a little hard” content and without knowing how to play with “easy content”, the normal content is incredibly difficult for them. But it’s not their fault, it’s just a too big step in difficulty.

On the other side, for players that already have mastered the core game HoT is not that hard, they just need to be “active” and care about their environment. And for some part, they just know they can’t do the content because they are just not enough, so they just find help with other players.

Some advice for players that find HoT hard:
- The important thing is not to deal a massive amount of damage, the important thing is to stay alive. If you stay alive enough time, the bad guy will die.
- Avoiding damage is better than heal or damage reductions.
- All classes have dodge. But dodge is precious and must not be wasted.
- Don’t dodge if you can avoid an attack just by moving (with going out the red area on the floor or behind the bad guy when he make an heavy attack).
- On most class, you have two type of skill, skills part of your dps chain and skill of opportunity. A skill of opportunity is a skill that is not useful for your damage output but is useful for the effect provided. Per example the 3 of the revenant hammer. This skill has not really good damage but make you dodge all attack while using it. You can use this skill has an additional dodge. So use it for dodging and don’t waste it as a random attack.
- When you think, I can’t do anything, i will be hit by this big attack, then it’s time to dodge ^^.
- When you know how not to die with your active play, you can decrease your defensive statistics and increase your offensive statistics (the most extreme way being the all berzerker). For myself, i have the armor in Celestial and the rest in Berzerker (with some additional celestial trinket for when i’m tired of dodging :p). This way, the fight will be shorter and you will have less opportunity to die.

And for end, the more important thing, the will. If you know that you will do it, then you will. Don’t discourage yourself. Something may be hard so try to figure why you fail and how to avoid that.

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Posted by: aikatara.3462

aikatara.3462

- In core Tyria, i can complete the same map on two different accounts at the same time (one hand on the keyboard of my laptop and the other on the keyboard of my tower). It’s just tedious for some heart, like the one with hungry rabbits.
- In HoT, with one hand, it’s really hard but using two hands, it’s fine.

LOL – thought something similar. You actually need both hands in HoT all the time

Don’t discourage yourself. Something may be hard so try to figure why you fail and how to avoid that.

That’s the way I do it. Try – die – try -die – try … oh wait, that worked!!!

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Posted by: DoctorDing.5890

DoctorDing.5890

Those people saying that they are finding it difficult. They are not making it up. Telling them that it’s easy, or that they need to get better, or that they don’t belong in the game, or even just being rude to them; none of these things are ever going to help. /shrug

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Posted by: Emtiarbi.3281

Emtiarbi.3281

They will probably do something similar to orr in the future, lower the enemy density as we killed Mordremoth.

I believe that when there are couple of raid wings, they can nerf the density on those maps and focus the “hard content” on raids. (but please, don’t nerf the metas, they are awesome!)

Anredhal Amethyst – Lain Amethyst – Orss Jerre

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Posted by: aikatara.3462

aikatara.3462

I do not consider it easy. I as well actually die constantly. But I do not mind. Maybe it is a difference in what people consider to be enjoyable or what frustrates them. Of course it is frustrating if you buy a game addon for a lot (in this case really a lot) of money and it frustrates you to no end. But I think the new maps are not as easy accessible as the other onces, they are more comparable to Silverwaste. It takes time to get familiar with the mechanics of the HoT maps and guides to the new maps that help you understand are just appearing in the internet (Dulfy now has great once apparently). And organisation helps. I for my part like the idea of the mentor tag because it provides more people the opportunity to indicate: “Here is an event where people are. Come here to us.”

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Posted by: Rain.7543

Rain.7543

No, just, NO. The difficulty is just fine right now. The maps during day time are quite easy to just relax and solo or do some events with few people. During the night is when the events and the mobs are most challenging and you need a group to do any of them. No way around that. I think this is the best thing Anet could’ve done for this expansion. Every other part of the core maps is SO easy, its redicilous. Take the core story for example: You face is terrifying threat of the Elder dragons, the endless hordes of risen minions…. yet most of the time I faceroll through them with closed eyes. There are many enemies, but they are so easy to kill that they feel like just a filler content put there to make you feel like you’re acomplishing something hard, but just feels flat and fails badly in the end. In the new expansion the mobs are fewer, but they’re HARD, this makes you think what abilities to use, when and how to use them to stay alive. I actually died a few times during the story, and it was AWESOME. I never ever died during the core story.

Also as the first ever cinematic in HoT points out – The whole jungle is set against you.
We are literraly deep into enemy territory, our whole fleet was destroyed, the Pacts is in ruins, most of the Sylvari has joined Mordremoth.
What do you expect? That you will be the shiny hero coming into the jungle and stomping through hordes of Mordrem guard, cutting them down with your axe like butter? Well think again. But then how dare they make the poor casuals THINK while they play, right? Outrageous.

I understand that some people like to play solo even in MMO’s, which I dont understand. I really don’t get it at all. The whole concept of MMO games is to make you play and interact with other players and do content together. This is exactly the reason why on the market we have two types of games – single player base (where the people who wants to play solo should be), and mmo games – for those of us intrested in interacting with others and playing together. If you still want to stay and play solo in MMO, please understand already that the focus of the developers of the mmo games would always be on the second crowd – the one who joins expecting to play group content.

Please stop with this treads. If you want casual content there’s an entire game that provides that. Literally every other map in GW2 is casual. I understand that everyone have paid for this expansion and they are in their absolute right to want to enjoy it. Maybe instead of coming here and start such topics, try to adapt? Try to group for once, who knows, you may even like it. There’s a lot of awesome folks out there who will be glad to help you out in Maguuma. I am one of them. Try to put a bit more effort while you play the game, instead of mindlessly smashing down your skill keys, and you will be quite suprised to find out most of the content isnt even so hard as you make it out.

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Posted by: Khisanth.2948

Khisanth.2948

Hard? Not particularly if you don’t mind the tedium of fighting every mob. Oh and don’t forget to bring all your cleanses and stability because CC spam is so awesome …

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Posted by: Dual.8953

Dual.8953

Those people saying that they are finding it difficult. They are not making it up. Telling them that it’s easy, or that they need to get better, or that they don’t belong in the game, or even just being rude to them; none of these things are ever going to help. /shrug

So being overtly rude and telling them to gtfo aside, are we supposed to just roll over, not voice our objections and possibly let Anet dumb down the game for them, at the expense of making the game completely boring to ourselves?
GW2’s core experience is so easy that we got players in endgame who don’t know basic mechanics like dodging. Why should Anet alienate those that care about the game just to cater to those who can’t even be bothered learn the basics?

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