Yes there was more content in the core game than there is in the “expansion”. I put expansion in quotes, because so many people seem to think of this as a standard expansion. It’s not. It’s added stuff to the game that goes far beyond what a normal expansion adds. Not in more maps, but in a roadmap for the game ahead. It’s almost like Guild Wars 2 2.0 or something. Specializations and elite specializations are a complete rewrite of the trait system. Masteries are a complete rewrite of the post 80 progression system. Guilds now have a form of progress as well, and guild halls are entire maps.
The four maps introduced in HoT are far more complex than any previous maps in the game. Far, far more complex. They’re large, they have multiple levels and they introduce gliding and updrafts. You may not like those things but there’s evidence a lot of people do.
Anet also added raids, a combat mode and a lot of new collections, which you may or may not like. They added a boatload of new minigames (yes some of us like the adventures) they added new meta events, they added new AI, a new profession and new technology was implemented for skills of that profession.
Content is content, but the back end stuff is just as important if not more important because it changes the entire future of the game.
Some people don’t like that change and some people do. But HoT, in a lot of ways, really is a reboot of Guild Wars 2.
And once some of the bugs are worked out of that system, we’ll see just how popular it is.
And let’s not forget it’s also going to be a season pass for other changes coming. That’s part of the value too.
-They tried to make up for the fact there is actually VERY LITTLE content, by making timed, and gated content. (Meta events where you have to wait hours before the next, Mastery points, where you must complete annoying mini games (where you must do them if you want a shot at collections))
-After 4 weeks, there is nothing left to do but spam lfg to try and find an organized group to do the metas. If you dont get in one… wait a few more hours.
Shots fired. Go home boy, he totally called the dips on this one.
…. snip
Content is content, but the back end stuff is just as important if not more important because it changes the entire future of the game.
Some people don’t like that change and some people do. But HoT, in a lot of ways, really is a reboot of Guild Wars 2.
And once some of the bugs are worked out of that system, we’ll see just how popular it is.
And let’s not forget it’s also going to be a season pass for other changes coming. That’s part of the value too.
I am only quoting a small portion of your post because this portion is the most relevant to my rebuttal.
I know they did a ton of background things with the xpac, but they have to stop reinventing the wheel and calling it content. They did this by adding a new tier after the game was released (ascended), and again with the NPE. They even did this with traits being compressed and reassigned on all classes. My problem is not with them changing things as time goes by.
I never had a DS fail, just go when the global reset is. Some ppl just seem to be too stupid to understand such mechanics.
Whining reaches new levels every day, and I dislike the common errors: the original game was 60€ and the expansion is 45€, so not the same price.
But it’s true that HoT is a bit on the short side. 4 maps is the absolute minimum, 5 to 6 is what I expected. Also: no new dungeons, not even new fractals. WoW for example adds usually 6 – 8 new dungeons and 2 – 3 raids in an expansion. With more to come later.
For crying out loud… you all forget that we don’t have to pay a dime but the initial price! While MMORPGs like WoW pay 15$ every month and they don’t get much more content than us in their expansions. While we will continuously get more and more FREE content + progressive story. Oh and please don’t go with the “but the gem store waa-waa-waa” you can buy gems with gold and its not that expensive.
And it’s 5000 gold to level up scribe; that’s $500 real world dollars or nearly 3 years of subscriptions fees to successfully do one small aspect of the game. I wonder if anyone has tallied up total guild hall costs in real dollars?
…. snip
Content is content, but the back end stuff is just as important if not more important because it changes the entire future of the game.
Some people don’t like that change and some people do. But HoT, in a lot of ways, really is a reboot of Guild Wars 2.
And once some of the bugs are worked out of that system, we’ll see just how popular it is.
And let’s not forget it’s also going to be a season pass for other changes coming. That’s part of the value too.
I am only quoting a small portion of your post because this portion is the most relevant to my rebuttal.
I know they did a ton of background things with the xpac, but they have to stop reinventing the wheel and calling it content. They did this by adding a new tier after the game was released (ascended), and again with the NPE. They even did this with traits being compressed and reassigned on all classes. My problem is not with them changing things as time goes by.
My problem is in doing it and calling it content!
They didn’t reinvent the wheel and call it content. They said, that this expansion would be lighter on content while they set up the game for future expansion so they could move the game forward.
I know the comparison between core vs HoT in terms of content is unfair when it’s quantified by $$ cost, still find that the amount of content added is “fair” in terms of potential, I consider it would have been nice to add the living world content as of its part of the story line..lets say the discount in the gem store is cool… but when you add it up to the cost of the expansion it starts looking ugly, putting it together would have been nice …or at least keep the discount over time to be fair with the ones that already payed for it (will just ignore that they included core in HoT…but there’s already a thread for that) …. so in short…I think it was “ok” (not great) in terms of content …we are still to see what else is going to be added/improved …just hope that this wave of funds will be reflected in the development of the game.
Suddenly in the Forums Everyone is now a Game designer!
…. snip
Content is content, but the back end stuff is just as important if not more important because it changes the entire future of the game.
Some people don’t like that change and some people do. But HoT, in a lot of ways, really is a reboot of Guild Wars 2.
And once some of the bugs are worked out of that system, we’ll see just how popular it is.
And let’s not forget it’s also going to be a season pass for other changes coming. That’s part of the value too.
I am only quoting a small portion of your post because this portion is the most relevant to my rebuttal.
I know they did a ton of background things with the xpac, but they have to stop reinventing the wheel and calling it content. They did this by adding a new tier after the game was released (ascended), and again with the NPE. They even did this with traits being compressed and reassigned on all classes. My problem is not with them changing things as time goes by.
My problem is in doing it and calling it content!
They didn’t reinvent the wheel and call it content. They said, that this expansion would be lighter on content while they set up the game for future expansion so they could move the game forward.
That’s what was said. That’s what they did.
I’ll believe it when I see it is all. For all we know they might not like the direction they are going in with masteries etc. and decide to change them entirely. It is not like they haven’t done this in the past with the NPE. The only difference this time is that I actually paid for content. Rewriting every aspect of the game on whatever Dev has an inspiration may be their “vision” of what is needed, but not mine.
Currently they have only given us a burger bun, and all I want to know is
Are you just gonna ignore the fact that HoT maps are way bigger and pact than core game maps, tons of new features? Also tell me on MMORPG that offers the same amount of content in expansion compare to core game with same price, HoT has so much content compare to wow expansion(first patch of course), FF14 expansion(weekly/daily dungeon token gate).
Your blinkered GW2 fanboism is legendary round here but please stop posting blatant lies about other games in order to try to sustain it.
HOT is no bigger than the expansions for the games you cite, in any way whatsoever!
I have certain things I like and dislile about gw2, I criticize gw2 at times but I disagree what most points people say on forums. I belive in what I think is right and I stand by my points unless I am convinced. If you call me a fanboy just for disagree with majority of people on forum then aren’t you a hater for disagreesing with majority of people in game?
I don’t remember the price but it was resonable for what you get with the original GW2.
All the content you could imagine, hearts, skill points, meta events, events, jumping puzzles, crafting. ALL progressed your character. AND it wasnt more that 50 bucks.
TONS OF CONTENT, TONS OF OPTIONS TO PLAY (anyone can find their flavor).
HOT – I payed 100… the content doesnt exist.
-They tried to make up for the fact there is actually VERY LITTLE content, by making timed, and gated content. (Meta events where you have to wait hours before the next, Mastery points, where you must complete annoying mini games (where you must do them if you want a shot at collections))
-After 4 weeks, there is nothing left to do but spam lfg to try and find an organized group to do the metas. If you dont get in one… wait a few more hours.
TOTAL LACK OF CONTENT on H.O.T
The original GW2 is cheaper, more content, and no forced…gated…grindy crapola.
We are NOT Idiots! If you have time to make all this stuff for the trading company for gems…1st week of release of H.O.T. It’s obvious where you priorities are going forward.
I payed to play a game like GW2. H.O.T is nothing like tyria.
Tyria has things to do for every spectrum of gamer.
H.O.T – Not so much.
I wish I could ask for a refund but am stuck with this…knowing there is WAAAAY more to do in the NOW FREE original version.
WHY ISNT HOT anywhere near the same amount of content as the original.
-It costs more to purchase it.
-There is no content (no added dungeons, fractals, a terrible pvp map)
-TELL ME WHY YOU HAVE WAY MORE TO DO IN THE FREE VERSION? THAT I PAYED FOR?
-WHY IS HOT A TOTAL SLAP IN THE FACE TO ANYONE WHO PURCHASED?
-HOT is NOT an “Expansion”. should have been 20$ or less with the amount of garbage we get compared to tyria.
-IT’s NOT an expansion…more like a dlc pack.
-Watch them try to make us PAY for more of this garbage down the road.
-If anything for H.O.T costs more money. HAHAHA NO WAY
free unlimited content> a few hours of expensive gaming. where everything is gated behind mastery points and mini games (terrible mini games too)
It gives us 4 maps
It gives us loads of story
It gives us raids “which take a lot of time”
The maps it gives us each have three layers
It gives us elite specialisations
It basically gives us a whole new layer of progression.
I think that is quite a lot of content if you ask me.
I think that is quite a lot of content if you ask me.
And you missed the OP new class!!! also kitten looking.
-and finally have places worth calling endzones! … the bosses and mob designs are amazing!
Yeah you have a point in that the story isn’t actually that long to be fair, BUT there was LS2 before that which meant that story wasn’t too incomplete (for me anyway). Oh yes forgot about revenent as well (cool class!).
What is there in vanilla Tyria for the high end gamer?
Triple Threat?
The lack of challenge drove the top talents to solo dungeons.
Yes, HoT is a gated community, but that doesn’t mean they haven’t improved the game going forward. The game was stale and the devs made an attempt to raise our pulses. Whether they were successful or not is anyone’s opinion.
But for the game to stay the course with its country club difficulty would’ve killed it within a year.
I never had a DS fail, just go when the global reset is. Some ppl just seem to be too stupid to understand such mechanics.
Our apologies. Within the limited amount of time between work, taking care of family, and getting to bed before having to return to work the next morning, we can’t seem to fit in enough time to wait for the global reset.
Guess those of us with jobs, families, and lives are too ‘stupid’ to wait every two hours for that clock to tick down.
Exactly. And you can’t really compare an expansion’s cost and the core game’s cost and expect the same amount of content for the same price. For example, now that GW2 is F2P, what happens when a new player sees an expansion for $50? Under that line of thinking, they would be like, “The core game is free, so I should be able to get just as much content as the core game… For free! Only if you add more on than that will I pay!” It’s just not plausible, and 99% games never have as much content in an expansion as the do the core game. And also remember that the core game is usually developed in a much longer time than expansions, like over 5 years for GW2 and less than 2 for the expansion.
They didn’t reinvent the wheel and call it content. They said, that this expansion would be lighter on content while they set up the game for future expansion so they could move the game forward.
That’s what was said. That’s what they did.
In other words, they asked us to pay for the gateway to more Living Story and called it a light expansion. And people got happy because they heard the word ‘expansion’, so it silenced the expansion crowds’ demands for it.
But in truth, all we did was pay for delayed Living World content which would’ve been free otherwise.
They didn’t reinvent the wheel and call it content. They said, that this expansion would be lighter on content while they set up the game for future expansion so they could move the game forward.
That’s what was said. That’s what they did.
In other words, they asked us to pay for the gateway to more Living Story and called it a light expansion. And people got happy because they heard the word ‘expansion’, so it silenced the expansion crowds’ demands for it.
But in truth, all we did was pay for delayed Living World content which would’ve been free otherwise.
Good to know.
Apart from:
We got maps (4) all bigger than living world
Every map we GOT was much bigger than the LS ones
We had end game progression given too us
We got raids
We got access to an ENTIRE new CLASS
all the various points I stated in my above post.
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS. LOOK AT LS AND LOOK AT HoT. HoT BLATANTLY GIVES SO MUCH MORE TO US THAN LS!!!!!
Call me a fanboy but to be honest I’m tired of all these meaningless complaints
They didn’t reinvent the wheel and call it content. They said, that this expansion would be lighter on content while they set up the game for future expansion so they could move the game forward.
That’s what was said. That’s what they did.
In other words, they asked us to pay for the gateway to more Living Story and called it a light expansion. And people got happy because they heard the word ‘expansion’, so it silenced the expansion crowds’ demands for it.
But in truth, all we did was pay for delayed Living World content which would’ve been free otherwise.
Good to know.
Apart from:
We got maps (4) all bigger than living world
Every map we GOT was much bigger than the LS ones
We had end game progression given too us
We got raids
We got access to an ENTIRE new CLASS
all the various points I stated in my above post.
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS. LOOK AT LS AND LOOK AT HoT. HoT BLATANTLY GIVES SO MUCH MORE TO US THAN LS!!!!!
Call me a fanboy but to be honest I’m tired of all these meaningless complaints
Yay again! .. this time you missed guild halls, and elite specs!
Suddenly in the Forums Everyone is now a Game designer!
They didn’t reinvent the wheel and call it content. They said, that this expansion would be lighter on content while they set up the game for future expansion so they could move the game forward.
That’s what was said. That’s what they did.
In other words, they asked us to pay for the gateway to more Living Story and called it a light expansion. And people got happy because they heard the word ‘expansion’, so it silenced the expansion crowds’ demands for it.
But in truth, all we did was pay for delayed Living World content which would’ve been free otherwise.
Good to know.
Apart from:
We got maps (4) all bigger than living world
Every map we GOT was much bigger than the LS ones
We had end game progression given too us
We got raids
We got access to an ENTIRE new CLASS
all the various points I stated in my above post.
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS. LOOK AT LS AND LOOK AT HoT. HoT BLATANTLY GIVES SO MUCH MORE TO US THAN LS!!!!!
Call me a fanboy but to be honest I’m tired of all these meaningless complaints
Fanboy!
yay again .. this time is missing guild halls, and elite specs!
Suddenly in the Forums Everyone is now a Game designer!
We had end game progression given too us
We got raids(
Yes, we got raids, but one could argue that “end game progression” is worse now with HoT, because there isn’t any meaningful way to gear up for those raids.
There are no reliable sources for ascended drops in the game, and now that dungeons and fractals are nerfed, it’s harder to earn the cash to craft ascended, too. For a player who’s new to the game, how are they supposed to acquire ascended gear to raid? For other players, who may have been around a while, but never bothered to level crafting — because it wasn’t needed — they are way behind the 8-ball now. So, players who geared up pre-HoT are able to get into raid groups, but people who didn’t have no clear path to do so.
This “end game challenging content” wasn’t well thought-out. Sure, provide the challenging content, but also provide a way to skill up and gear up for it. And we got neither. Very poor design, IMO.
We had end game progression given too us
We got raids(
Yes, we got raids, but one could argue that “end game progression” is worse now with HoT, because there isn’t any meaningful way to gear up for those raids.
There are no reliable sources for ascended drops in the game, and now that dungeons and fractals are nerfed, it’s harder to earn the cash to craft ascended, too. For a player who’s new to the game, how are they supposed to acquire ascended gear to raid? For other players, who may have been around a while, but never bothered to level crafting — because it wasn’t needed — they are way behind the 8-ball now. So, players who geared up pre-HoT are able to get into raid groups, but people who didn’t have no clear path to do so.
This “end game challenging content” wasn’t well thought-out. Sure, provide the challenging content, but also provide a way to skill up and gear up for it. And we got neither. Very poor design, IMO.
I think everyone jumped into HoT with core gear…. unless that person started after HoT means (s)he skipped core content…. have played for years and still not fully ascended…. I run in exotic, makes not much difference …. not pretending to do raids yet tho….
Suddenly in the Forums Everyone is now a Game designer!
They didn’t reinvent the wheel and call it content. They said, that this expansion would be lighter on content while they set up the game for future expansion so they could move the game forward.
That’s what was said. That’s what they did.
In other words, they asked us to pay for the gateway to more Living Story and called it a light expansion. And people got happy because they heard the word ‘expansion’, so it silenced the expansion crowds’ demands for it.
But in truth, all we did was pay for delayed Living World content which would’ve been free otherwise.
Good to know.
Almost. You paid for Living Story season 3 and a features pack that were rolled into one so they could be boxed and packaged and sold as an expansion. The real kicker, though, is that ArenaNet had the gall to charge an industry-high $50 for this “expansion” despite it not shipping with a good number of features it was supposed to have.
Almost. You paid for Living Story season 3 and a features pack that were rolled into one so they could be boxed and packaged and sold as an expansion.
Well, I hope there won’t be a surprise like you need to log in every two weeks or PAY for access to LS3. I know for sure that I won’t be able to log-in for almost a month in spring.
Seriously? Every HoT maps are at least 2-3 times the land mass of core Tyria maps(…)
Let’s say they are 3 times the land mass of Tyria maps.
Three times larger across four maps equals the amount of content in Tyria? Did you willing eat the pile of kitten on your plate that you ordered, or was it spoon fed to you?
As a consumer that paid full retail value for Guild Wars 2 when it launched, and as a consumer that paid full retail value yet again when Heart of Thorns launched — I am disappointed. Perhaps they’ll add much more that will make Heart of Thorns worthy of being called an expansion rather than a DLC. You’ll have to excuse the disappointment until the value of the product is worth what it cost.
Seriously? Every HoT maps are at least 2-3 times the land mass of core Tyria maps(…)
Let’s say they are 3 times the land mass of Tyria maps.
Three times larger across four maps equals the amount of content in Tyria? Did you willing eat the pile of kitten on your plate that you ordered, or was it spoon fed to you?
As a consumer that paid full retail value for Guild Wars 2 when it launched, and as a consumer that paid full retail value yet again when Heart of Thorns launched — I am disappointed. Perhaps they’ll add much more that will make Heart of Thorns worthy of being called an expansion rather than a DLC. You’ll have to excuse the disappointment until the value of the product is worth what it cost.
Worth being called an expansion..imho yes …. worth the full price? $50 ….. not quite sure … probably $30 or so.. but who am I to say… they threw the bait…. fishes went for it…
Suddenly in the Forums Everyone is now a Game designer!
Eyes of the North:
- 41 new armor sets, including rare, stand-alone pieces
- 100 new profession-specific skills (10 per profession, none of which are elite)
- 50 new PvE only skills including 3 elite skills
- 10 new heroes
- 18 Dungeons
- 124 new quests
And the list goes on. What took ANet today two and a half year to release a half-kittened DLC pack with four maps gated hourly and by masteries, eight years ago it took them significantly less to introduce three full campaigns and a full-fledged expansion.
ANet today isn’t the same as the old one anymore. It is now at best a pitiful attempt at cash grabbing, feeding on the mouth of gem whales and milking the former glory of what GW1 was. Leeching the old ANet, even.
Eyes of the North:
- 41 new armor sets, including rare, stand-alone pieces
- 100 new profession-specific skills (10 per profession, none of which are elite)
- 50 new PvE only skills including 3 elite skills
- 10 new heroes
- 18 Dungeons
- 124 new quests
And the list goes on. What took ANet today two and a half year to release a half-kittened DLC pack with four maps gated hourly and by masteries, eight years ago it took them significantly less to introduce three full campaigns and a full-fledged expansion.
ANet today isn’t the same as the old one anymore. It is now at best a pitiful attempt at cash grabbing, feeding on the mouth of gem whales and milking the former glory of what GW1 was. Leeching the old ANet, even.
41 armor set- human only and way less detailed, no large amount of animation and clipping issue required to make.
new skills-Comparing number of skill doesn’t make sense, some of the EoTN skills are copy paste version of others also I think pure number wise HoT is not too far away.
10 heroes-GW2 has no such system, so you can’t compare that.
18 dungeons- dungeon is no longer the focus of GW2 we have raid so there is that also most of those dungeons are kind of face roll.
124 new quest-Again different system, maybe let’s compare events? Dude I think HoT got way more events.
You can’t just compare number of things on 2 different games. It doesn’t make sense.
Eyes of the North:
- 41 new armor sets, including rare, stand-alone pieces
- 100 new profession-specific skills (10 per profession, none of which are elite)
- 50 new PvE only skills including 3 elite skills
- 10 new heroes
- 18 Dungeons
- 124 new quests
And the list goes on. What took ANet today two and a half year to release a half-kittened DLC pack with four maps gated hourly and by masteries, eight years ago it took them significantly less to introduce three full campaigns and a full-fledged expansion.
ANet today isn’t the same as the old one anymore. It is now at best a pitiful attempt at cash grabbing, feeding on the mouth of gem whales and milking the former glory of what GW1 was. Leeching the old ANet, even.
Point taken !
Suddenly in the Forums Everyone is now a Game designer!
It isn’t comparable, because those were standard eight years ago for a MMO of eight years ago. And I expected this exact company to improve eight years after, but they did not.
Should I also mention that EotN introduced four REGIONS, each comes with lots of maps, only for you to say “but those maps don’t have the amount of vertical exploration”?
It isn’t comparable, because those were standard eight years ago for a MMO of eight years ago. And I expected this exact company to improve eight years after, but they did not.
Should I also mention that EotN introduced four REGIONS, each comes with lots of maps, only for you to say “but those maps don’t have the amount of vertical exploration”?
You can’t compare numbers of maps in two different games, we only have half of Tyria in GW2 while having multiple continent in GW1, does that mean GW1 has 10 times more content?
You can’t compare numbers of maps in two different games, we only have half of Tyria in GW2 while having multiple continent in GW1, does that mean GW1 has 10 times more content?
That is exactly the point. EotN has “10 times more content”, compared to the base Guild Wars 1 and it took less time to accomplish this feat compared to this DLC pack for Guild Wars 2.
Yes there was more content in the core game than there is in the “expansion”. I put expansion in quotes, because so many people seem to think of this as a standard expansion. It’s not. It’s added stuff to the game that goes far beyond what a normal expansion adds. Not in more maps, but in a roadmap for the game ahead. It’s almost like Guild Wars 2 2.0 or something. Specializations and elite specializations are a complete rewrite of the trait system. Masteries are a complete rewrite of the post 80 progression system. Guilds now have a form of progress as well, and guild halls are entire maps.
Pretty sure Age of Empires 2 expansions are still counted as expansions… and they add mechanics, civilizations, units, functions, maps, storylines, and tons of other things that in some cases go beyond the original vision for the game. Check out the latest one (released ~two weeks ago?) if you don’t believe me. =P
I’m pretty sure Age of Empires isn’t an MMO and can’t really be compared to an MMORPG. You have to look at what MMORPGs are, not what other games are. I’ve been playing baseball my whole life, but they’ve yet ot release an expansion.
You’re clearly just arguing here to argue.
It’s one thing to say that Age of Empires isn’t an MMO; it’s another thing entirely to make a pointed attack on my intentions. You never mentioned anything about specifically referring to MMO expansions. You simply said “a standard expansion”. You took a stab at the history of expansions (my reference to Age of Empires was a completely random shot in the dark). If you want to argue MMO expansions, I’d delightedly point you at the second two Guild Wars 1 titles and their Eye of the North expansion. But the thing is, games on a whole have had both expansions and DLC since (nearly) the dawn of gaming; so far, HoT has provided a few hints at being an expansion, but more at being a living world/seasonal update. Hopefully there’s more content to come that we don’t know about yet.
Baseball? Uh… to the best of my knowledge, baseball never advertised an expansion. Not sure where you’re going with that one.
But I guess if I’m just here to argue… what would I know?
I personally found the content rather lacking, needlessly gated behind masteries to extend its life. Amusingly enough by the time i unlocked the masteries, whose sole purpose is to streamline map navigation and exploration, i was also rather sick of said maps. However i also understood that this was the merely the foundation on which more content was to be built and added upon. What i did not bargain on was the content i assumed i would be gaining access to namely guild halls, scribing etc were so unbelievably expensive and grindy as to render them virtually unobtainable. So as a member of a 5 man rl friends guild we were rather excited for all that HoT had to offer, amazing guild halls, great upgrades for our wvw roaming, scribing to make the guild halls our “own”, and an arena so we could practice (much needed for some) our pvp skills. Little did we realise that HoT would not only take away the buffs and benefits we had already worked hard for over 2-3 years but they’d put these, and all the new exciting features that we had assumably paid to gain access to, behind such an insane grind in terms of materials, gold and more importantly time that achieving these seemed increasingly unlikely. Previously the process to leveling our guild was admittedly a slow one, but it did not require sacrificing personal rewards, farming of mats or donating ones personal wealth, we just needed to play together and occasionally go kill some elusive bounty mobs. So maybe we also need to take into consideration how much of this new content is reasonably accessible and what content has been taken away only to be added back as “new” content. Even the recent trend of effect noise reduction has resulted in iconic profession animations been “taken” away (not sure what game aims to be less graphically appealing after 3 years). I still love guild wars and have no intention of leaving but the new direction is bound to leave some players with concerns, an mmo is a huge personal investment after all.
Yes there was more content in the core game than there is in the “expansion”. I put expansion in quotes, because so many people seem to think of this as a standard expansion. It’s not. It’s added stuff to the game that goes far beyond what a normal expansion adds. Not in more maps, but in a roadmap for the game ahead. It’s almost like Guild Wars 2 2.0 or something. Specializations and elite specializations are a complete rewrite of the trait system. Masteries are a complete rewrite of the post 80 progression system. Guilds now have a form of progress as well, and guild halls are entire maps.
Pretty sure Age of Empires 2 expansions are still counted as expansions… and they add mechanics, civilizations, units, functions, maps, storylines, and tons of other things that in some cases go beyond the original vision for the game. Check out the latest one (released ~two weeks ago?) if you don’t believe me. =P
I’m pretty sure Age of Empires isn’t an MMO and can’t really be compared to an MMORPG. You have to look at what MMORPGs are, not what other games are. I’ve been playing baseball my whole life, but they’ve yet ot release an expansion.
You’re clearly just arguing here to argue.
It’s one thing to say that Age of Empires isn’t an MMO; it’s another thing entirely to make a pointed attack on my intentions. You never mentioned anything about specifically referring to MMO expansions. You simply said “a standard expansion”. You took a stab at the history of expansions (my reference to Age of Empires was a completely random shot in the dark). If you want to argue MMO expansions, I’d delightedly point you at the two Guild Wars 1 titles and their Eye of the North expansion. But the thing is, games on a whole have had both expansions and DLC since (nearly) the dawn of gaming; so far, HoT has provided a few hints at being an expansion, but more at being a living world/seasonal update. Hopefully there’s more content to come that we don’t know about yet.
Baseball? Uh… to the best of my knowledge, baseball never advertised an expansion. Not sure where you’re going with that one.
But I guess if I’m just here to argue… what would I know?
Well since this discussion is about GW2 (an MMO) I imagine it was assumed that you knew we were talking about MMO expansions :P If we compare expansions between different genres of games then we start comparing oranges to apples and get nowhere.
They didn’t reinvent the wheel and call it content. They said, that this expansion would be lighter on content while they set up the game for future expansion so they could move the game forward.
That’s what was said. That’s what they did.
In other words, they asked us to pay for the gateway to more Living Story and called it a light expansion. And people got happy because they heard the word ‘expansion’, so it silenced the expansion crowds’ demands for it.
But in truth, all we did was pay for delayed Living World content which would’ve been free otherwise.
Good to know.
Nope not what I said at all. Because a new profession isn’t living story. Elite specializations aren’t living story. Guild Halls aren’t living story. Precursor hunts aren’t living story. New AI isn’t living story. New combat mode isn’t living story. New achievements aren’t story related. Gliding is a feature all by itself that adds immeasurably to the expansion for quite a few people. Raids aren’t living story. And the adventures, which some people like, are not the living story either.
There were things Anet got wrong too, like the scribe profession which could have been done a whole lot better, but on the whole, there’s a lot for SOME of us to do.
For a guy like me, who enjoys finding stuff like lockboxes (without going to a site like Dulfy), I’m having a good time flying around the jungle. You may not like that sort of thing but I do.
Yes there was more content in the core game than there is in the “expansion”. I put expansion in quotes, because so many people seem to think of this as a standard expansion. It’s not. It’s added stuff to the game that goes far beyond what a normal expansion adds. Not in more maps, but in a roadmap for the game ahead. It’s almost like Guild Wars 2 2.0 or something. Specializations and elite specializations are a complete rewrite of the trait system. Masteries are a complete rewrite of the post 80 progression system. Guilds now have a form of progress as well, and guild halls are entire maps.
Pretty sure Age of Empires 2 expansions are still counted as expansions… and they add mechanics, civilizations, units, functions, maps, storylines, and tons of other things that in some cases go beyond the original vision for the game. Check out the latest one (released ~two weeks ago?) if you don’t believe me. =P
I’m pretty sure Age of Empires isn’t an MMO and can’t really be compared to an MMORPG. You have to look at what MMORPGs are, not what other games are. I’ve been playing baseball my whole life, but they’ve yet ot release an expansion.
You’re clearly just arguing here to argue.
It’s one thing to say that Age of Empires isn’t an MMO; it’s another thing entirely to make a pointed attack on my intentions. You never mentioned anything about specifically referring to MMO expansions. You simply said “a standard expansion”. You took a stab at the history of expansions (my reference to Age of Empires was a completely random shot in the dark). If you want to argue MMO expansions, I’d delightedly point you at the two Guild Wars 1 titles and their Eye of the North expansion. But the thing is, games on a whole have had both expansions and DLC since (nearly) the dawn of gaming; so far, HoT has provided a few hints at being an expansion, but more at being a living world/seasonal update. Hopefully there’s more content to come that we don’t know about yet.
Baseball? Uh… to the best of my knowledge, baseball never advertised an expansion. Not sure where you’re going with that one.
But I guess if I’m just here to argue… what would I know?
When I’m watching a baseball game and I talk about a champion, it’s obviously I’m not talking about a chess champion. Because the context can be assumed.
Chess is a game with an end game but you couldn’t apply that end game to chess. It’s logical to assume (yes really) that expansions for MMOs are different from other genres and when one is playing an MMO and talking about an expansion, they’re talking about MMO expansions and yes, I think it’s disingenuous to ignore that.
I mean you could be talking about expansions for driving games next. There’s no point in comparing expansions in games for different genres, because they’re different animals completely. No point at all.
Yes there was more content in the core game than there is in the “expansion”. I put expansion in quotes, because so many people seem to think of this as a standard expansion. It’s not. It’s added stuff to the game that goes far beyond what a normal expansion adds. Not in more maps, but in a roadmap for the game ahead. It’s almost like Guild Wars 2 2.0 or something. Specializations and elite specializations are a complete rewrite of the trait system. Masteries are a complete rewrite of the post 80 progression system. Guilds now have a form of progress as well, and guild halls are entire maps.
Pretty sure Age of Empires 2 expansions are still counted as expansions… and they add mechanics, civilizations, units, functions, maps, storylines, and tons of other things that in some cases go beyond the original vision for the game. Check out the latest one (released ~two weeks ago?) if you don’t believe me. =P
I’m pretty sure Age of Empires isn’t an MMO and can’t really be compared to an MMORPG. You have to look at what MMORPGs are, not what other games are. I’ve been playing baseball my whole life, but they’ve yet ot release an expansion.
You’re clearly just arguing here to argue.
It’s one thing to say that Age of Empires isn’t an MMO; it’s another thing entirely to make a pointed attack on my intentions. You never mentioned anything about specifically referring to MMO expansions. You simply said “a standard expansion”. You took a stab at the history of expansions (my reference to Age of Empires was a completely random shot in the dark). If you want to argue MMO expansions, I’d delightedly point you at the two Guild Wars 1 titles and their Eye of the North expansion. But the thing is, games on a whole have had both expansions and DLC since (nearly) the dawn of gaming; so far, HoT has provided a few hints at being an expansion, but more at being a living world/seasonal update. Hopefully there’s more content to come that we don’t know about yet.
Baseball? Uh… to the best of my knowledge, baseball never advertised an expansion. Not sure where you’re going with that one.
But I guess if I’m just here to argue… what would I know?
When I’m watching a baseball game and I talk about a champion, it’s obviously I’m not talking about a chess champion. Because the context can be assumed.
Chess is a game with an end game but you couldn’t apply that end game to chess. It’s logical to assume (yes really) that expansions for MMOs are different from other genres and when one is playing an MMO and talking about an expansion, they’re talking about MMO expansions and yes, I think it’s disingenuous to ignore that.
I mean you could be talking about expansions for driving games next. There’s no point in comparing expansions in games for different genres, because they’re different animals completely. No point at all.
Yup, and I did correct my assumption in my reply, too! I presented Guild Wars 1 and its second/third/expansion titles to replace my Age of Empires example (a poor choice on my part). Looks like I forgot to actually expand on that… But seriously, I’m here for discussion, not argument. =/
@ZachAttack and @Vayne – Upon revision, I’m aware that my previous posts were less than charming. My apologies. Not here to antagonize you guys…
Yes there was more content in the core game than there is in the “expansion”. I put expansion in quotes, because so many people seem to think of this as a standard expansion. It’s not. It’s added stuff to the game that goes far beyond what a normal expansion adds. Not in more maps, but in a roadmap for the game ahead. It’s almost like Guild Wars 2 2.0 or something. Specializations and elite specializations are a complete rewrite of the trait system. Masteries are a complete rewrite of the post 80 progression system. Guilds now have a form of progress as well, and guild halls are entire maps.
Pretty sure Age of Empires 2 expansions are still counted as expansions… and they add mechanics, civilizations, units, functions, maps, storylines, and tons of other things that in some cases go beyond the original vision for the game. Check out the latest one (released ~two weeks ago?) if you don’t believe me. =P
I’m pretty sure Age of Empires isn’t an MMO and can’t really be compared to an MMORPG. You have to look at what MMORPGs are, not what other games are. I’ve been playing baseball my whole life, but they’ve yet ot release an expansion.
You’re clearly just arguing here to argue.
It’s one thing to say that Age of Empires isn’t an MMO; it’s another thing entirely to make a pointed attack on my intentions. You never mentioned anything about specifically referring to MMO expansions. You simply said “a standard expansion”. You took a stab at the history of expansions (my reference to Age of Empires was a completely random shot in the dark). If you want to argue MMO expansions, I’d delightedly point you at the two Guild Wars 1 titles and their Eye of the North expansion. But the thing is, games on a whole have had both expansions and DLC since (nearly) the dawn of gaming; so far, HoT has provided a few hints at being an expansion, but more at being a living world/seasonal update. Hopefully there’s more content to come that we don’t know about yet.
Baseball? Uh… to the best of my knowledge, baseball never advertised an expansion. Not sure where you’re going with that one.
But I guess if I’m just here to argue… what would I know?
When I’m watching a baseball game and I talk about a champion, it’s obviously I’m not talking about a chess champion. Because the context can be assumed.
Chess is a game with an end game but you couldn’t apply that end game to chess. It’s logical to assume (yes really) that expansions for MMOs are different from other genres and when one is playing an MMO and talking about an expansion, they’re talking about MMO expansions and yes, I think it’s disingenuous to ignore that.
I mean you could be talking about expansions for driving games next. There’s no point in comparing expansions in games for different genres, because they’re different animals completely. No point at all.
Yup, and I did correct my assumption in my reply, too! I presented Guild Wars 1 and its second/third/expansion titles to replace my Age of Empires example (a poor choice on my part). Looks like I forgot to actually expand on that… But seriously, I’m here for discussion, not argument. =/
@ZachAttack and @Vayne – Upon revision, I’m aware that my previous posts were less than charming. My apologies. Not here to antagonize you guys…
One more thing. Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO. It was a lobby game. You met in a city, you got your party together, and you went out into an instance that contained at most 12 people. Guild Wars 1 was pathed. It had no Z axis. You simply can’t compare the complexity of the games.
And it was ten years ago, in a much less competitive arena. There are very few games that can compare with this game. Do you have any idea how much it probably took to add gliding to this game alone?
The complexity of the new maps is huge and probably took ages to create. If you don’t like that sort of thing you might well think oh Anet did no work on this, but it’s probably not true.
Yes there was more content in the core game than there is in the “expansion”. I put expansion in quotes, because so many people seem to think of this as a standard expansion. It’s not. It’s added stuff to the game that goes far beyond what a normal expansion adds. Not in more maps, but in a roadmap for the game ahead. It’s almost like Guild Wars 2 2.0 or something. Specializations and elite specializations are a complete rewrite of the trait system. Masteries are a complete rewrite of the post 80 progression system. Guilds now have a form of progress as well, and guild halls are entire maps.
Pretty sure Age of Empires 2 expansions are still counted as expansions… and they add mechanics, civilizations, units, functions, maps, storylines, and tons of other things that in some cases go beyond the original vision for the game. Check out the latest one (released ~two weeks ago?) if you don’t believe me. =P
I’m pretty sure Age of Empires isn’t an MMO and can’t really be compared to an MMORPG. You have to look at what MMORPGs are, not what other games are. I’ve been playing baseball my whole life, but they’ve yet ot release an expansion.
You’re clearly just arguing here to argue.
It’s one thing to say that Age of Empires isn’t an MMO; it’s another thing entirely to make a pointed attack on my intentions. You never mentioned anything about specifically referring to MMO expansions. You simply said “a standard expansion”. You took a stab at the history of expansions (my reference to Age of Empires was a completely random shot in the dark). If you want to argue MMO expansions, I’d delightedly point you at the two Guild Wars 1 titles and their Eye of the North expansion. But the thing is, games on a whole have had both expansions and DLC since (nearly) the dawn of gaming; so far, HoT has provided a few hints at being an expansion, but more at being a living world/seasonal update. Hopefully there’s more content to come that we don’t know about yet.
Baseball? Uh… to the best of my knowledge, baseball never advertised an expansion. Not sure where you’re going with that one.
But I guess if I’m just here to argue… what would I know?
When I’m watching a baseball game and I talk about a champion, it’s obviously I’m not talking about a chess champion. Because the context can be assumed.
Chess is a game with an end game but you couldn’t apply that end game to chess. It’s logical to assume (yes really) that expansions for MMOs are different from other genres and when one is playing an MMO and talking about an expansion, they’re talking about MMO expansions and yes, I think it’s disingenuous to ignore that.
I mean you could be talking about expansions for driving games next. There’s no point in comparing expansions in games for different genres, because they’re different animals completely. No point at all.
Yup, and I did correct my assumption in my reply, too! I presented Guild Wars 1 and its second/third/expansion titles to replace my Age of Empires example (a poor choice on my part). Looks like I forgot to actually expand on that… But seriously, I’m here for discussion, not argument. =/
@ZachAttack and @Vayne – Upon revision, I’m aware that my previous posts were less than charming. My apologies. Not here to antagonize you guys…
One more thing. Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO. It was a lobby game. You met in a city, you got your party together, and you went out into an instance that contained at most 12 people. Guild Wars 1 was pathed. It had no Z axis. You simply can’t compare the complexity of the games.
And it was ten years ago, in a much less competitive arena. There are very few games that can compare with this game. Do you have any idea how much it probably took to add gliding to this game alone?
The complexity of the new maps is huge and probably took ages to create. If you don’t like that sort of thing you might well think oh Anet did no work on this, but it’s probably not true.
How much could gliding have taken to add? We already had the jump mechanic (which allows for Z axis and for non-surface movement) and leap skills from day one; gliding is a guided fall, which is a sub-process of the jumping process code that slows fall speed, increases forward movement, and probably utilizes a switch that loops a [player on surface?] query.
But generally speaking, I enjoy the expansion. The main thing I’ve disliked about it is that pretty much everything you see and do in the HoT maps stays in the HoT maps. Will that change? Possibly. Hopefully. But currently the main masteries provide long-term horizontal progression that only affects gameplay in four maps. A bit of a sad design choice when they put so much effort (yes, I’m sure they did) into the new content.
Also, keep in mind that pathing is part of the engine, not the map creation process. Creating maps doesn’t become a harder process due to the Z axis until the developers decide to add jumping challenges and things like that.
Yes there was more content in the core game than there is in the “expansion”. I put expansion in quotes, because so many people seem to think of this as a standard expansion. It’s not. It’s added stuff to the game that goes far beyond what a normal expansion adds. Not in more maps, but in a roadmap for the game ahead. It’s almost like Guild Wars 2 2.0 or something. Specializations and elite specializations are a complete rewrite of the trait system. Masteries are a complete rewrite of the post 80 progression system. Guilds now have a form of progress as well, and guild halls are entire maps.
Pretty sure Age of Empires 2 expansions are still counted as expansions… and they add mechanics, civilizations, units, functions, maps, storylines, and tons of other things that in some cases go beyond the original vision for the game. Check out the latest one (released ~two weeks ago?) if you don’t believe me. =P
I’m pretty sure Age of Empires isn’t an MMO and can’t really be compared to an MMORPG. You have to look at what MMORPGs are, not what other games are. I’ve been playing baseball my whole life, but they’ve yet ot release an expansion.
You’re clearly just arguing here to argue.
It’s one thing to say that Age of Empires isn’t an MMO; it’s another thing entirely to make a pointed attack on my intentions. You never mentioned anything about specifically referring to MMO expansions. You simply said “a standard expansion”. You took a stab at the history of expansions (my reference to Age of Empires was a completely random shot in the dark). If you want to argue MMO expansions, I’d delightedly point you at the two Guild Wars 1 titles and their Eye of the North expansion. But the thing is, games on a whole have had both expansions and DLC since (nearly) the dawn of gaming; so far, HoT has provided a few hints at being an expansion, but more at being a living world/seasonal update. Hopefully there’s more content to come that we don’t know about yet.
Baseball? Uh… to the best of my knowledge, baseball never advertised an expansion. Not sure where you’re going with that one.
But I guess if I’m just here to argue… what would I know?
When I’m watching a baseball game and I talk about a champion, it’s obviously I’m not talking about a chess champion. Because the context can be assumed.
Chess is a game with an end game but you couldn’t apply that end game to chess. It’s logical to assume (yes really) that expansions for MMOs are different from other genres and when one is playing an MMO and talking about an expansion, they’re talking about MMO expansions and yes, I think it’s disingenuous to ignore that.
I mean you could be talking about expansions for driving games next. There’s no point in comparing expansions in games for different genres, because they’re different animals completely. No point at all.
Yup, and I did correct my assumption in my reply, too! I presented Guild Wars 1 and its second/third/expansion titles to replace my Age of Empires example (a poor choice on my part). Looks like I forgot to actually expand on that… But seriously, I’m here for discussion, not argument. =/
@ZachAttack and @Vayne – Upon revision, I’m aware that my previous posts were less than charming. My apologies. Not here to antagonize you guys…
One more thing. Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO. It was a lobby game. You met in a city, you got your party together, and you went out into an instance that contained at most 12 people. Guild Wars 1 was pathed. It had no Z axis. You simply can’t compare the complexity of the games.
And it was ten years ago, in a much less competitive arena. There are very few games that can compare with this game. Do you have any idea how much it probably took to add gliding to this game alone?
The complexity of the new maps is huge and probably took ages to create. If you don’t like that sort of thing you might well think oh Anet did no work on this, but it’s probably not true.
How much could gliding have taken to add? We already had the jump mechanic (which allows for Z axis and for non-surface movement) and leap skills from day one; gliding is a guided fall, which is a sub-process of the jumping process code that slows fall speed, increases forward movement, and probably utilizes a switch that loops a [player on surface?] query.
But generally speaking, I enjoy the expansion. The main thing I’ve disliked about it is that pretty much everything you see and do in the HoT maps stays in the HoT maps. Will that change? Possibly. Hopefully. But currently the main masteries provide long-term horizontal progression that only affects gameplay in four maps. A bit of a sad design choice when they put so much effort (yes, I’m sure they did) into the new content.
Also, keep in mind that pathing is part of the engine, not the map creation process. Creating maps doesn’t become a harder process due to the Z axis until the developers decide to add jumping challenges and things like that.
Well, it takes a lot because they have to add updrafts and stuff like that, to make sure the distances you need to be reached to get stuff can be reached. It’s not “just” gliding. Those maps are a huge amount of work. Ask anyone who’s involved in coding. It’s nuts.
As for not affecting the rest of the game, you can play your revenant anywhere and your elite specialization anywhere, which is something and the collection quests take you all over the world. Many of the collections take you back to earlier zones and events.
Well, it takes a lot because they have to add updrafts and stuff like that, to make sure the distances you need to be reached to get stuff can be reached. It’s not “just” gliding. Those maps are a huge amount of work. Ask anyone who’s involved in coding. It’s nuts.
As for not affecting the rest of the game, you can play your revenant anywhere and your elite specialization anywhere, which is something and the collection quests take you all over the world. Many of the collections take you back to earlier zones and events.
Certainly a lot of work on the design, yes.
Revenant, yes, elite, yes (after picking up HCs throughout the new maps), mistward armor, yes, guild halls… kind of, (real) masteries, no. The masteries system is the only form of long-term horizontal progression that has so far been added to the game. As I said, I enjoy most things about the expansion (just don’t mention WvW); it’s the fact that the long-term progression is only useful in HoT maps that bugs me.
I’d give HOT 9.5/10 if they did not totally mess up the maps and meta. Its impossible to enjoy the content when the maps are essentially empty. Nowadays, many ppl look for finished DS or AB. Why? For one, how long can you keep doing the same kitten over and over again? Second, for legendary collections. Most people who are diving into the money sink are looking for specific events and those events generally require some of the main events to fail. Talk about kittenty game design.
Killing dungeons in favor of raids is THE stupidest of all ideas one can come up with. Not everyone likes or can raid. I, for one, can’t join a group of 9 unknowns and deal with rage, syncing, performing up to the mark needed for this type of content. I’d rather do a few dungeons, run a fractal or two, get some event chains done and call it a day. But, no, I now gotta be hardcore.. back to become 14 years old again. Wish I could though. Adult life is a problem.
“If there is anyone here whom I have not offended, I am sorry.”
I didn’t read any of the posts,I think $29.99 would have been fair if this is all we get, but correct me if I’m wrong….Isn’t this like buying a new season of GW2? I mean I expect them to continue to expand upon things beyond this expansion.
