Guild Wars 2

Hi there,
I try to keep it short this time!
So after Southsun Cove, Dry Top and the Silverwastes, with the last two being literally a prelude to HoT, I wanted to ask if this is the “future” of how all lvl 80 maps will be like in HoT. Heart Quests are pretty dead by now and we get decreasingly Vistas + Skill Point challenges. It’s all about rushing between Dynamic Events.

The beta map was rather confusing and felt a bit like a less optimal Silverwaste copy. And since the events on the map are essential to unlock masteries; I can’t see all my 8 characters + the revenant to grind events all day long right now. Maybe I will do that with 2 characters, but that’s all the event grind I might want to do, seeing how slow the EXP gain was during those 2 hours.

So… no more “classic but likable” heart quests in the future…?

Apparently hearts weren’t popular. I stood by and said how much I enjoyed them, if only they were a bit more substantial, but I was a minority. However, as time has passed, I’ve largely come to find them a bit of a clunky addition to maps.

Event maps are where they want to be – Dry Top and SW are prototypes for HoT and even then, evolved from the trial and error of LS1 (Tower, Southson etc)

Do we need some calm and explorable stuff? Yes, something like the Hearts but more fitting to the setting. I suspect these exist, but will not form the core of any betas or previews.

I was never a huge fan of hearts, but I’ve always wanted something more from DEs than we originally got (Massive branches, multi-zone effects, really long events, etc.)

At the very least I’d like them to be fairly spread out and feel natural. While (if they must occur in close proximity) its good they’re all connected (one of the issues I always had was how every 10 feet a completely-distinct ‘emergency’ would happen), that combined with the short duration has made Silverwastes in particular insanely repetitive. :-/

Orr is what zones were meant to be like. Hearts only exist because of the original NPE. They found that players couldn’t figure out what to do, so they added hearts to act as quests, then scouts to direct players towards them. Hearts are only intended to get you to move through the map, to find events.

Hearts were basically meant to act as a quest hub. With their newer design, they’re making popular areas, then putting events around them. It’s basically the same thing, but without a UI telling you. If you bother to look, you can even find small stories, the same as with a heart.

ArenaNet has always been into exploration. You have to go out of you way if you want to see everything. At one point, events were invisible. Instead of being told to save a village, you just did because you wanted to. The problem however was that traditional questers skip everything.

I really like the hearts along with the other map exploration items. If map completion items are being permanently abandoned, that will be very sad for us players that enjoy exploration.

Hearts were never really intended for level 80 zones, which is why you don’t see them in Orr either, if you recall the 3 Orr zones have a total of zero(0) Hearts…yes, they’re in Frostgorge Sound, but that technically isn’t and end-game zone…only a stepping stone the Far Shiverpeaks.

man i like hearths they are awesome something that will stay on the map like i have done it and is marked there events they come and go its not like eternal impact

Healix.5819:

Orr is what zones were meant to be like. Hearts only exist because of the original NPE. They found that players couldn’t figure out what to do, so they added hearts to act as quests, then scouts to direct players towards them. Hearts are only intended to get you to move through the map, to find events.

The original concept for Orr was great. The execution… Not so much.
But I’ll stop for now lest I get into another rant about zombie anti-aircraft weapons.

Healix.5819:

At one point, events were invisible. Instead of being told to save a village, you just did because you wanted to. The problem however was that traditional questers skip everything.

This, I would have liked. Along with the removal of Vistas and PoIs. I love exploration, but I hate the idea that they’ve created a checklist of place they want you to see. Instead, just make diverse, interesting environments that may or may not have any gameplay-related purpose, and let people explore them naturally (if they want to).

Dark Saviour.9410:

This, I would have liked. Along with the removal of Vistas and PoIs. I love exploration, but I hate the idea that they’ve created a checklist of place they want you to see. Instead, just make diverse, interesting environments that may or may not have any gameplay-related purpose, and let people explore them naturally (if they want to).

Believe it or not, there’s quite a large base of players that enjoy having scripted things thrown their way. Not saying that it should or shouldn’t be, but many people like times where they can just log in and have something blinking at them, “You should try this!”.

I’m in the middle. there are many times that I enjoy the Orr areas, the feeling of coordination, working with other players, etc. Then there are times where I just want to follow a trail of bread crumbs.

While I see the Orr areas as a good transition, I’m worried if the future is full up scripted events like silverwastes. I often prefer open areas to explore, and silverwastes (and drytop) feel more like locked areas then open explorable. Heck, I avoided drytop for the first 2 months I was playing…i had no clue how to get out of the starting area!

I really think they need to provide a mixture of environments. Orr is a great hybrid….no hearts, but dynamic events, some that are large chain events. some that you can solo, and some that require small groups, some that require large groups and organization to accomplish.

My worry with silverwaste-like areas, that many people will feel stifled, as you often need full groups to get anything accomplished in those areas (or at least tag along with a larger group). staged events I’m OK with, but they need a blend to really provide players with a full range of options. People don’t like single “one size fits all…but not really” solutions. they want choices. as long as the event areas have choices (like Orr), I’m OK with it. but if the whole expansion is nothing but silverwaste copies, i may rethink my purchase.

Reminds me of the Living world releases. rather then having a set of options, they pretty much homed in on a single concept. Didn’t work out so well. MMO’s that succeed tend to have multiple paths to the same destination…

I’m not in Beta so i can’t say, so I’m going fully off of what people have said + silverwastes experience. It can be fun, but like many things, it’s easy to get tired of…

^

This, a thousand times this!

I just stopped playing Beta because I’d had enough of the quests. 2 hours of grinding the same few quests over and over again in a cramped and restricted environment got old fast.

I’ve always loved the free-roaming aspect of this game. My two favourate zones are The Plains of Ashford and Gendarren Fields simply because I love running across their open areas admiring the scenery.

I don’t hate the idea of a zone with more reliance on events towards a greater goal, but if it means exploration is restricted and the map feels claustrophobic then I don’t enjoy it. One of he best things about Orr was that it wasn’t solely reliant on the completion of the event chains. You were rewarded for seeing them through to the end but if you didn’t you could still explore most of the zone at your leisure, the only real issue being the Skill points at the temples if they’re contested.

ShelBlackblood.7826:

Hi there,
I try to keep it short this time!
So after Southsun Cove, Dry Top and the Silverwastes, with the last two being literally a prelude to HoT, I wanted to ask if this is the “future” of how all lvl 80 maps will be like in HoT. Heart Quests are pretty dead by now and we get decreasingly Vistas + Skill Point challenges. It’s all about rushing between Dynamic Events.

The beta map was rather confusing and felt a bit like a less optimal Silverwaste copy. And since the events on the map are essential to unlock masteries; I can’t see all my 8 characters + the revenant to grind events all day long right now. Maybe I will do that with 2 characters, but that’s all the event grind I might want to do, seeing how slow the EXP gain was during those 2 hours.

So… no more “classic but likable” heart quests in the future…?

Masteries are account wide aren’t they? Do on one character, unlocks for all yeah?

Khanco.1584:

^

This, a thousand times this!

I just stopped playing Beta because I’d had enough of the quests. 2 hours of grinding the same few quests over and over again in a cramped and restricted environment got old fast.

Thematically, big open area’s makes zero sense though. The whole zone is deliberately set up the way it is. You are supposed to feel cramped in and awkward – you are fighting a dragon and his forces in his environment, in close quarters. That’s the whole point.

Also, Beta. It’s one slice of the whole thing. There will be some more open area’s no doubt.

Constant frenetic repetitive events bore me. I want exploration, choice, a chance to feel the world, not dash about constantly like a mad squirrel. Constant combat is boring.

Silverwastes was fun for about a month, at most, and only because of the ridiculously generous loot.

If the small expansion is nothing more than frenetic bouncing around, it may not be worth my while.

Others may feel differently, but I bought GW2 to explore a large world with others, not play hummingbird.

Hearts never bothered me during my first level up, but on subsequent playthroughs they were a drag. Having said that, I still like the main open world better than the silverwastes and dry top

@MashMash
Yes you are right about that. I’ve noticed the Gliding exp progress I did with the Revenant also counted for the Warrior i created after the reroll. I really hope it stays like this when HoT gets released.

To correct some of my points above: The Beta map looks of course different, more jungle-ry than the Silverwastes. It’s in fact a beautiful map that suffers from predefined paths you are forced to take on your first visit, but I think the movement on this map will become more freely as soon as we unlock more Masteries. I’ve finally tested the Gliding in the second Beta run and it already saved me a bit of time to get to other places.

BUT: This still doesn’t change the fact, that the events seem to be the main focus here. Later on we may take our time to explore the map, but in the Beta, my right side of the screen was full of event texts and the minimap had orange markings all around my characters position.

I’m not against events in generell, I just would like to have a bit of space and calm/silent moments between them. There’s no desperate need of Hearts again, but at least let us “feel” that we actually helped someone out at some point. In SW+DT everything we do is visually for nothing, not a single thing we accomplish improves anything in those areas since the events restart all the time. I don’t know how to put it, but with completeable quests it felt more like we really “achieved” something for us and the NPCs in that location. It may sound a bit strange, but I don’t know how to explain it better.

ShelBlackblood.7826:

@MashMash
Yes you are right about that. I’ve noticed the Gliding exp progress I did with the Revenant also counted for the Warrior i created after the reroll. I really hope it stays like this when HoT gets released.

To correct some of my points above: The Beta map looks of course different, more jungle-ry than the Silverwastes. It’s in fact a beautiful map that suffers from predefined paths you are forced to take on your first visit, but I think the movement on this map will become more freely as soon as we unlock more Masteries. I’ve finally tested the Gliding in the second Beta run and it already saved me a bit of time to get to other places.

BUT: This still doesn’t change the fact, that the events seem to be the main focus here. Later on we may take our time to explore the map, but in the Beta, my right side of the screen was full of event texts and the minimap had orange markings all around my characters position.

I’m not against events in generell, I just would like to have a bit of space and calm/silent moments between them. There’s no desperate need of Hearts again, but at least let us “feel” that we actually helped someone out at some point. In SW+DT everything we do is visually for nothing, not a single thing we accomplish improves anything in those areas since the events restart all the time. I don’t know how to put it, but with completeable quests it felt more like we really “achieved” something for us and the NPCs in that location. It may sound a bit strange, but I don’t know how to explain it better.

I think thats a big nail you hit on the head Shel. people tend to forget the benefit of having something to accomplish, or a finite set of objectives. We had a mix of both before. you had things you could do that gave you a sense of accomplishement…you helped the village, or the farmer….they were happy, yada yada.

I go back to the concept of the mix. Silverwastes is great in chunks. But there are times that I’ll hop over there, and the events are “in-between” because there aren’t enough people playing to push the event cycle to open up the next sequence of events. so I have 2 choices: sit there and pick my nose until the event chain has enough progress to unlock, or go back to areas where i can actually DO things. and feel a sense of accomplishement.

I feel accomplishment when I finish a SW series…well that is if it finishes OK, and we don’t have whiners and trolls in chat griping about everyone else. But thats if im there at the right time…and are in the right spot…

If I’m not, then there is absolutely no reason to be in silvertop. Now, my hope is that the new areas have a more fluid approach to this. things to do while the larger events are not going on (you know…like how Orr does). larger event chains with nice rewards. the smaller items provide smaller rewards, but its still options. I don’t want to be shut down in the new areas just because my timing is bad.

I think the problem we have is that they have told us that areas like SW are the “model” moving forward, but those areas are severely limited. and with the current exposure of the new areas, we haven’t been given any indication that they are considering other options, like the more “flexible” alternatives that are in Orr and the rest of the world.

I feel that companies have to be careful about how they structure future progression. If they make it too different from the original game, they risk losing a ton of players (ESO did this, and it was a horribly effective example of how this level of change is bad). But if they go with a similar approach to SWtOR (change, but providing players with options, and keeping the game similar), then I think the transition will be effective.

MashMash.1645:

ShelBlackblood.7826:

Hi there,
I try to keep it short this time!
So after Southsun Cove, Dry Top and the Silverwastes, with the last two being literally a prelude to HoT, I wanted to ask if this is the “future” of how all lvl 80 maps will be like in HoT. Heart Quests are pretty dead by now and we get decreasingly Vistas + Skill Point challenges. It’s all about rushing between Dynamic Events.

The beta map was rather confusing and felt a bit like a less optimal Silverwaste copy. And since the events on the map are essential to unlock masteries; I can’t see all my 8 characters + the revenant to grind events all day long right now. Maybe I will do that with 2 characters, but that’s all the event grind I might want to do, seeing how slow the EXP gain was during those 2 hours.

So… no more “classic but likable” heart quests in the future…?

Masteries are account wide aren’t they? Do on one character, unlocks for all yeah?

Mastery points are account wide. I’m not sure about the actual masteries.

Diovid.9506:

MashMash.1645:

ShelBlackblood.7826:

Hi there,
I try to keep it short this time!
So after Southsun Cove, Dry Top and the Silverwastes, with the last two being literally a prelude to HoT, I wanted to ask if this is the “future” of how all lvl 80 maps will be like in HoT. Heart Quests are pretty dead by now and we get decreasingly Vistas + Skill Point challenges. It’s all about rushing between Dynamic Events.

The beta map was rather confusing and felt a bit like a less optimal Silverwaste copy. And since the events on the map are essential to unlock masteries; I can’t see all my 8 characters + the revenant to grind events all day long right now. Maybe I will do that with 2 characters, but that’s all the event grind I might want to do, seeing how slow the EXP gain was during those 2 hours.

So… no more “classic but likable” heart quests in the future…?

Masteries are account wide aren’t they? Do on one character, unlocks for all yeah?

Mastery points are account wide. I’m not sure about the actual masteries.

I’m pretty sure masteries are account wide.

Diovid.9506:

MashMash.1645:

ShelBlackblood.7826:

Hi there,
I try to keep it short this time!
So after Southsun Cove, Dry Top and the Silverwastes, with the last two being literally a prelude to HoT, I wanted to ask if this is the “future” of how all lvl 80 maps will be like in HoT. Heart Quests are pretty dead by now and we get decreasingly Vistas + Skill Point challenges. It’s all about rushing between Dynamic Events.

The beta map was rather confusing and felt a bit like a less optimal Silverwaste copy. And since the events on the map are essential to unlock masteries; I can’t see all my 8 characters + the revenant to grind events all day long right now. Maybe I will do that with 2 characters, but that’s all the event grind I might want to do, seeing how slow the EXP gain was during those 2 hours.

So… no more “classic but likable” heart quests in the future…?

Masteries are account wide aren’t they? Do on one character, unlocks for all yeah?

Mastery points are account wide. I’m not sure about the actual masteries.

everything about the masteries were accountwide in the beta at least, i had unlocked the first part of mushroom jumping on my revenant in the first 2 hour playsession, when i came back having delete that char and made a mesmer instead, the masteries were exactly where i left them

Dynamic events over hearts any day. The problem with The Silverwastes in particular was that it was dynamic events… but on rails. You stood around repeating the same series of events, at any fort you were defending. Defend->Rebuild->Escort. Possibly skipping the rebuild part if none of the walls got destroyed. Then after a seemingly arbitrary amount of time had passed, kitten opens, and you do the same champion fights.

This would be interesting… if winning or losing the fight had any impact on the confrontation with the Vinewrath. The only thing it affects is the amount of rare loot bags you get. If it had been that not defeating one or more of the champions had an effect, it would have added excitement, variation and a motivation to actually pull your finger out (e.g. the champions not defeated periodically stood on a cliff above one of the “lanes” and threw poison blobs that healed enemy allies when defeated or pustules that exploded if not killed). They have talked about winning and losing events having more of an impact in HoT. I’m just hoping that doesn’t mean more or less bags to open.

Edit: lmao at the censoring on this site… the “kitten opens” was supposed to be a reference to the fissures in the ground opening to allow access to the chambers underneath, but apparently the words “a” and “hole” next to each other is filthy and crude. What a prudish world ANet live in ahaha

I didn’t like heart tasks. Events are much better in my opinion. I just wish they weren’t always timed. A conquest type of event like the ruins in WvW could work in PvE, and it only failed in WvW because pvp’ers didn’t want to do that.

I don’t think the heart tasks were only just a way of letting people adjust to the event system like many of you are claiming. Mainly because there is very little in the way of progression from hearttasks moving towards just events. In Orr they are merely removed and events become the only thing to do. There’s no to little events going to actually take over some of the more mundane tasks.

The bigger plus of the hearttasks for me was that they decorated the world with a daily life which you could help out with for a tiny reward. As such I didn’t always really did them but to me it was a great source of immersion. This immersion is mostly lost with any additional maps, and while I really don’t care if there’s an event covering them or a hearttask in order to complete it. I felt it was way more immersive and interactive rather than there being only static NPCs standing around making me feel like they at best wax museum props with a little sign saying their dialogue. That letter with each completed heart felt great the first time I got them.

If anything Silverwastes with its continuous event system has taken over the heart tasks with the fairly mundane tasks while trying to add an overarching cause. I find Verdant Brink to be fairly in the middle with this.The repitition of the daytime events isn’t that bad because they are more akin to the high quality event chains. (Though I worry that just those will still make the world feel fairly empty if it’s just those events.) And in the night the events disappoint because they don’t feel more than doing glorified hearttasks for 45 long minutes.

All in all I really wouldn’t mind there to be some tasks to help out the NPCs in certain appropriateareas on a loop for a tiny reward if need be. More as a decoration / immersion tool rather than anything else. That or some events that go beyond the scope of the system that is in place now. That were for me the strong points in previous maps. They changed things up.

On a more side note: I feel like that the event system in Guild Wars 2 is really great, but they have yet to unlock their full potential. There have been many showcases of tools that could change things up regarding events, but have been left in the dirt in the sake of player expectation or playstyle. It’s become a “All gameplay elements follow the same style” principle. I wish to see something more out of the box.

The problem with “events only” maps is that you have no response of “accomplishment”. In maps with hearts you do every heart, skill challenge, vista and point of interest and “complete” the map.
Imagine every map had only events and no hearts at all. Most players would probably just walk to every skill challenge, vista and point of interest and mostly only do the events on the way, especially when they reached max level. And that would be way too fast.

There would still be people farming these events for loot or for others reasons but that’s not the main thing most players do on the (classic) PvE maps.

I think anet should add some sort of “check mark” to every event and/or event chain if done and show it on the map somehow for the new “no hearts” maps.
So people are able to play through all the content without missing anything if they want and be able to see it.

I mean who doesn’t like to see a 100% done bar after all that “work”? ;D

Neox.3497:

The problem with “events only” maps is that you have no response of “accomplishment”. In maps with hearts you do every heart, skill challenge, vista and point of interest and “complete” the map.
Imagine every map had only events and no hearts at all. Most players would probably just walk to every skill challenge, vista and point of interest and mostly only do the events on the way, especially when they reached max level. And that would be way too fast.

There would still be people farming these events for loot or for others reasons but that’s not the main thing most players do on the (classic) PvE maps.

I think anet should add some sort of “check mark” to every event and/or event chain if done and show it on the map somehow for the new “no hearts” maps.
So people are able to play through all the content without missing anything if they want and be able to see it.

I mean who doesn’t like to see a 100% done bar after all that “work”? ;D

I get a response though in maps like Drytop. By pushing the event so that it’s at a higher tier, that’s definitely a response. To me it’s a much better response than looking at a heart that involved gathering or killing something very easy and saying oh, look I did that.

It’s the difference between crossing off something on a shopping list, or a christmas list. lol

The response in Dry Top is very impersonal as opposed to a heart task. Also it repeats itself. I don’t think they are comparable at all. It would be a mapwide hourly repeated christmas list vs your character onetime shoppinglist.

I do think that those adventures are meant to fill that gap somewhat though.

I wouldn’t mind a hybrid of the Hearts and Dynamic Events. Where you enter a map with a “Heart” total listed but no “Heart” icons shown on the map. So you have to venture through the map searching for the events as they happen and upon first completion of one, you have that event’s “Heart” icon unlocked. So when you come back later and want to revisit an event you hover your icon on the “Heart” icon to jog your memory of the general backstory, it’s general location and how to start it up again. Plus when you have the icon unlocked it would show you if it is currently happening or not. I think a balance of discovery of the unknown plus unlocking is key.

As said in other threads. We only saw a small portion of the new map (40% of one of the three layers, so it only shows 15% max).

Also keep in mind there is more to the other elements like the challenges, lore and story instances. So from that perspective I would not say it is an event map only.

If you went to the west and approached the wall of vines blocking access to the rest of the map, the event notification bout the day/night cycle went away. So as I see it, the day/night cycle meta event chain, only plays in that 15% of the map. Once you get to the other layers or when you go to the west, other stuff we don’t know bout is going on (or atleast that is what I imagine and hope).

As for renown hearts. I personally find them the most boring element of exploration. They where added to the game originally cause from testing it shows people where missing something, but the effect is that a need was forefilled with a very boring element.

I personally prefer exploration of a map like malchors leap, compared to a map like frostgorge sound. I think the typical elements of malchors leap, (with the skill points replaced by the mastery points) and the addition of adventures to replace non-repeatable renown hearts, it is a good one. I do hope they will add a reward for map completion. Maybe even a reward for completing each layer, and a reward for completion of all three. The adventures should be included with them.

ShelBlackblood.7826:

Hi there,
I try to keep it short this time!
So after Southsun Cove, Dry Top and the Silverwastes, with the last two being literally a prelude to HoT, I wanted to ask if this is the “future” of how all lvl 80 maps will be like in HoT. Heart Quests are pretty dead by now and we get decreasingly Vistas + Skill Point challenges. It’s all about rushing between Dynamic Events.

The beta map was rather confusing and felt a bit like a less optimal Silverwaste copy. And since the events on the map are essential to unlock masteries; I can’t see all my 8 characters + the revenant to grind events all day long right now. Maybe I will do that with 2 characters, but that’s all the event grind I might want to do, seeing how slow the EXP gain was during those 2 hours.

So… no more “classic but likable” heart quests in the future…?

Hearts were never supposed to be in the game to begin with. They were just added in leveling zones for people coming from other MMOs who needed hand holding. Orr doesn’t have hearts and it’s clear level 80 zones are never intended to have them. That’s fine with me as long as the events are plentiful and interesting. And masteries are account wide, so no you don’t need to grind on all 8 characters. Just one.

If you have to “grind” through DE, then what do you “play”?