Guild Wars 2

Hello GW2 Team.
I do not really like pve, and I do not like raids.
Where is the alternative?! WvW? sPVP? No, this does not exist, only pve raids.
Not everyone wants to spend hours and days in pve raids.
You disconnect most of the players from the legendary armor!
Why?!

upd: where an alternative to obtaining Li and opening a legendary collection for spvp and wvw?!

There will be alternate ways to obtain it.

The new of this expansion were the raids. Anet needed something rewarding: Legendary armor.

If a Game mode ia dying, they will add the Legendary armor to it, and problem solve.

vier.1327:

There will be alternate ways to obtain it.

The new of this expansion were the raids. Anet needed something rewarding: Legendary armor.

If a Game mode ia dying, they will add the Legendary armor to it, and problem solve.

I want to believe, but… was an alternative legendary back item “Ad Infinitum” for Fractals, as pvp League with a reward “The Ascension”. Why not do it legendary armor collection for wvw and spvp, equivalent in time and cost?!

vier.1327:

There will be alternate ways to obtain it.

The new of this expansion were the raids. Anet needed something rewarding: Legendary armor.

If a Game mode ia dying, they will add the Legendary armor to it, and problem solve.

Best joke of the day

WvW has been dying for years

In the recent AMA, ANet doubled down on a few points they had made before:

• They have no plans to change the difficulty of raids.
• They have no plans to add another method to acquire Envoy armor (the current legendary set).
• They have no plans to design another 15 sets of legendary armor, to be acquired in some other fashion.

I don’t agree with their initial decision to make legendary armor the special reward for the game’s challenging content — I think they erred in thinking that non-raiders would be okay with a special armor set (and one of the few new ones) being gated behind raids.

But I really don’t see how they can do anything else now, not without inventing a new raid-exclusive reward. And frankly, I think that would be far worse for them to do — people are already (ahem) up in arms about how much design-team effort goes into legendary armor. Think of how bad the furor would be if other new armors etc were delayed because ANet was working on something raid-specific.

And finally, even if ANet decided today to offer legendary armor through some other mechanism, it would be at least 6-8 months of focused effort to design, prototype, test, retest, and implement. That’s not likely to happen when they already have an expac unofficially announced, due in 6-8 months, with its key features already planned.

tl;dr there’s no chance we will see any sort of alternative acquisition method for legendary armor anytime soon. Definitely not in 2017, almost certainly not in 2018.

Right up until they released the legendary backpacks, the only way to get the only legendary items in the game (weapons) required you to do PvE. So if you have a problem with doing PvE to obtain legendaries, you’ve been having that problem since the launch of this game. And I think it’s reasonable to assume that anyone interested in legendary armor is also interested in, or already obtained, at least one legendary weapon.

If you’re talking solely about legendary armor, it was never meant to be a core feature of the game. It was created as a special reward for Raids, to give people something special for taking on the challenge. Reasoning for legendary armor to be available throughout the game, to anyone no matter what you do, is basically arguing for the removal of any kind of special reward for anything. There are plenty of items in this game you can only obtain one way, yet a lot of people suddenly seem to have a problem with that when it concerns legendary armor.

TheNecrosanct.4028:

Right up until they released the legendary backpacks, the only way to get the only legendary items in the game (weapons) required you to do PvE. So if you have a problem with doing PvE to obtain legendaries, you’ve been having that problem since the launch of this game. And I think it’s reasonable to assume that anyone interested in legendary armor is also interested in, or already obtained, at least one legendary weapon.

It’s however not reasonable to assume that anyone interested in legendary armor is interested in raiding. In some cases it’s certainly true, but in many cases it’s definitely not.

TheNecrosanct.4028:

If you’re talking solely about legendary armor, it was never meant to be a core feature of the game. It was created as a special reward for Raids, to give people something special for taking on the challenge.

Maybe if you’re talking about this specific set of armor, but in general, we’ve heard suggestions about legendary armor long before raids (or HoT) were even in a picture.

TheNecrosanct.4028:

There are plenty of items in this game you can only obtain one way, yet a lot of people suddenly seem to have a problem with that when it concerns legendary armor.

Have you ever thought that maybe it’s because a legendary armor (the only one in the game) is a really poor choice for such a side content-limited item?

Astralporing.1957:

TheNecrosanct.4028:

Right up until they released the legendary backpacks, the only way to get the only legendary items in the game (weapons) required you to do PvE. So if you have a problem with doing PvE to obtain legendaries, you’ve been having that problem since the launch of this game. And I think it’s reasonable to assume that anyone interested in legendary armor is also interested in, or already obtained, at least one legendary weapon.

It’s however not reasonable to assume that anyone interested in legendary armor is interested in raiding. In some cases it’s certainly true, but in many cases it’s definitely not.

TheNecrosanct.4028:

If you’re talking solely about legendary armor, it was never meant to be a core feature of the game. It was created as a special reward for Raids, to give people something special for taking on the challenge.

Maybe if you’re talking about this specific set of armor, but in general, we’ve heard suggestions about legendary armor long before raids (or HoT) were even in a picture.

TheNecrosanct.4028:

There are plenty of items in this game you can only obtain one way, yet a lot of people suddenly seem to have a problem with that when it concerns legendary armor.

Have you ever thought that maybe it’s because a legendary armor (the only one in the game) is a really poor choice for such a side content-limited item?

In response to your first point: yes, I realize that not everyone interested in legendary armor might be interested in Raids. However, that is not an argument to introduce alternative means to get the set. I like the sPvP legendary back item skin, but I don’t like sPvP (haven’t played it since before the release of HoT). So I accept that I won’t likely ever get that skin, and I’m fine with it. And don’t come back with the possibility to get another legendary back item from Fractals, because I truly don’t like that skin. And since a legendary back item is no better stat-wise than an ascended back item, there is no need to get it just for a skin I find undesirable.

Yes, ANet may have talked about legendary armor long before HoT or Raids were introduced, but that has no bearing on the acquisition method. Have they ever hinted at making it available through “regular” content, like legendary weapons? I fully accept that legendary armor is a special reward for special content. It’s a prestige item and you don’t get prestige by doing something anyone can or will do. So no, I don’t agree it’s a bad decision to make something like legendary armor available only through Raids. I fully accept that there are things in this game not everyone will get because they don’t like the content they have to do for it. That’s the nature of MMO’s. There’s something for everyone, but not everything is for everyone. GW2 sets itself apart from other MMO’s in many ways, but that doesn’t mean they have to make that principle a universal thing throughout the game.

GW2 has a very long history of tying rewards to specific content, and that’s not going to change. The majority of time spent on that armor, as I understand it, was really figuring out how to make it work from a technical standpoint, as well as developing art guidelines for armor transformations to avoid the worst clipping issues when designing it.

That means that the hard part is done.

However, whether ArenaNet intends to offer legendary armor outside of raids is another matter.

My personal opinion is that challenging content should be rewarded with more impressive loot than less challenging content. I still don’t agree with the way most legendary weapons are implemented, as they don’t rewards anything particularly difficult. They just reward investment in tedium. The idea that everyone should have access to everything for doing whatever they want is not now, nor has it ever been the reward philosophy of the game. The people who heard “play what you want” and assumed it meant “Get everything you want” weren’t paying attention to the game at release (You know, where the endgame instances awarded special armor and weapons) nor were they paying attention to the design philosophy ArenaNet themselves stated:

That Rare items should be desirable because they are rare, difficult to obtain, or look cool, but that items of that rarity scale should not also grant their wielders mechanical power.

Legenadary armor, just like weapons and backpacks, falls squarely in line with that philosophy. It is shiny. It is rare. It has a feature that’s useful, but isn’t any more powerful than ascended gear anyone can get by doing literally any content they want and investing some gold in to the process.

This idea that people deserve rare loot for doing whatever they want, if made a reality, would futher damage a loot economy already on its last legs due to Anet’s over-use of microtransaction skins in a game where the primary reward for playing the game is skins. I don’t want to play a game where everything drops gold and I got to a vendor and just buy whatever I want. I want to play a game where I get cool loot for doing cool stuff.

I think PvP is awful in this game. Thus I must also be comfortable with never owning the PvP backpack. I am absolutely okay with that. I rather enjoy knowing that when I see it, I know something about its owner and the things they’ve done in their GW2 career. Just like I know when someone sees my guild armor that I have a very nice gold plated cave. Just like when I see someone with a bloodstone backpack I know they spent quite a bit of time fighting white mantle to get it. The game needs more of that kind of loot. Not less.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

It’s called legendary armor, not pleb armor. Either git gud or you’ll never have it, that’s the whole point of it.

That’s a separate issue. Any “pleb” can get every other legendary in the game except this one. I think ANet made a mistake in making this the fantastic reward locked behind raids.

That said, it’s clear that ANet isn’t going to do anything about this in 2017 or 2018.. They’ve confirmed they have no plan to an another type of legendary armor, no plans to make Envoy armor available through other means, and no plans to substantially change how raids work.

So I think people who really want it (for whatever reason: silly or serious) are better served spending more time figuring out how to make it happen and less time trying to convince ANet to change its collective mind.

TheNecrosanct.4028:

Astralporing.1957:

TheNecrosanct.4028:

Right up until they released the legendary backpacks, the only way to get the only legendary items in the game (weapons) required you to do PvE. So if you have a problem with doing PvE to obtain legendaries, you’ve been having that problem since the launch of this game. And I think it’s reasonable to assume that anyone interested in legendary armor is also interested in, or already obtained, at least one legendary weapon.

It’s however not reasonable to assume that anyone interested in legendary armor is interested in raiding. In some cases it’s certainly true, but in many cases it’s definitely not.

TheNecrosanct.4028:

If you’re talking solely about legendary armor, it was never meant to be a core feature of the game. It was created as a special reward for Raids, to give people something special for taking on the challenge.

Maybe if you’re talking about this specific set of armor, but in general, we’ve heard suggestions about legendary armor long before raids (or HoT) were even in a picture.

TheNecrosanct.4028:

There are plenty of items in this game you can only obtain one way, yet a lot of people suddenly seem to have a problem with that when it concerns legendary armor.

Have you ever thought that maybe it’s because a legendary armor (the only one in the game) is a really poor choice for such a side content-limited item?

In response to your first point: yes, I realize that not everyone interested in legendary armor might be interested in Raids. However, that is not an argument to introduce alternative means to get the set. I like the sPvP legendary back item skin, but I don’t like sPvP (haven’t played it since before the release of HoT). So I accept that I won’t likely ever get that skin, and I’m fine with it. And don’t come back with the possibility to get another legendary back item from Fractals, because I truly don’t like that skin. And since a legendary back item is no better stat-wise than an ascended back item, there is no need to get it just for a skin I find undesirable.

Yes, ANet may have talked about legendary armor long before HoT or Raids were introduced, but that has no bearing on the acquisition method. Have they ever hinted at making it available through “regular” content, like legendary weapons? I fully accept that legendary armor is a special reward for special content. It’s a prestige item and you don’t get prestige by doing something anyone can or will do. So no, I don’t agree it’s a bad decision to make something like legendary armor available only through Raids. I fully accept that there are things in this game not everyone will get because they don’t like the content they have to do for it. That’s the nature of MMO’s. There’s something for everyone, but not everything is for everyone. GW2 sets itself apart from other MMO’s in many ways, but that doesn’t mean they have to make that principle a universal thing throughout the game.

There is a difference between a skin and an entire tier of armor and the functionality unique to it.

I wasn’t aware you could achieve a legendary weapon just by spamming 1 in the open world. Maybe spamming your credit card is another story.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

That’s a separate issue. Any “pleb” can get every other legendary in the game except this one. I think ANet made a mistake in making this the fantastic reward locked behind raids.

I think Anet made a mistake in making all the other legenaries available to plebs by spamming 1 in open world. Account-binding is the biggest reason why I prefer HoT legendaries, although they’re still mostly designed to be a huge goldsink rather than a feat of skill.

I still consider Liadri (overlooking the stupid cheezy lifesteal bug) and SAB tribulation collections (overlooking the stupid 2k16 join-instance bug) some of the best and most prestigious content in the game, because everyone would have to do it for themselves (again, not counting bugs and unintended behavior) rather than leeching good players. I wish the game would have more stuff like this.

I don’t disagree that legendary weapons are a bit too easy to acquire (even the Gen 2.0 ones like Nevermore). But I don’t think that raids “need” to be the skill-required content that gates legendary armor.

• Armor takes ages for ANet to release — regardless of the reasons, this means it’s rare we get a chance for new skins.
• ANet acknowledged from the start that raids would never appeal to everyone.

So here’s this massive amount of effort that is only made available to a fraction of players.

I’m all in favor of the game having more content gated behind skill; I just can’t agree that Legendary Armor was an appropriate choice for raids.

The question is
what alternative would be okay to substitute 150LI the first time, and 300LI sibsequent creations of legendary armor?
If a PvP’er wants to get it, the alternative should be a valid substitute. But don’t forget the risk that when a PvE players finish all weekly raids, they will do PvP to fill in the rest.

Amaimon.7823:

But don’t forget the risk that when a PvE players finish all weekly raids, they will do PvP to fill in the rest.

That’s not a risk, that’s promoting playing in more than one game mode. In a good way, since it doesn’t require playing in either, just incentivizes it.

The best way would be for 3 game modes to have a way to get a precursor collection (and unlock precursor crafting). You might go one gamemode, and grind to craft precursors for the two remaining sets, or you could do two (or all 3) collections, receiving one set of precursors from each, thus reducing grind and the need of crafting.

PopeUrban.2578:

My personal opinion is that challenging content should be rewarded with more impressive loot than less challenging content.

The people who begged Anet for challenging content claimed that it was the challenge itself they wanted, so therefore the challenge is the better reward.

(those people were lying, of course, as seen by their reactions in topics like this. They don’t care about the challenge, they just want something they can lord over the “unwashed masses”)

Why “raid people” has to get anything “special” for them? Because raids are hard? Why isn’t there something special for people who discover JP routes, then? Or for people who do the “ironman mode”? Or for good WvW commanders? There are lots of hard tasks in the game, some I would argue harder than raiding. Why are raiders treated with such privilege?

Ieronim.1738:

Hello GW2 Team.
I do not really like pve, and I do not like raids.
Where is the alternative?! WvW? sPVP? No, this does not exist, only pve raids.
Not everyone wants to spend hours and days in pve raids.
You disconnect most of the players from the legendary armor!
Why?!

The answer to, "Why? is simple. The MMO phenomenon of raids evolved to have rewards that were better than anything else. While there are certainly some players who would do the raids for the challenge, raids were put in to attract a wider demographic than those who want challenge and don’t care about anything else. In order to offer such a reward without resorting to better stats (i.e., a new gear tier), ANet had to have something or a vast majority of raiders would not bother repeating raid content enough to warrant the effort to create it.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

It’s called legendary armor, not pleb armor. Either git gud or you’ll never have it, that’s the whole point of it.

IF Legendary Armor is the reward for getting good, then it should be awarded to the top tier players in sPvP, not players who can beat artificial “intelligence.”

btw, I have a question, other than the skins, what value would legendary armor have in PvP?
if you unlock just the skins, rather than the legendary functioning item, then I’m all okay for a much simpler acquisition method.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

PopeUrban.2578:

My personal opinion is that challenging content should be rewarded with more impressive loot than less challenging content.

The people who begged Anet for challenging content claimed that it was the challenge itself they wanted, so therefore the challenge is the better reward.

(those people were lying, of course, as seen by their reactions in topics like this. They don’t care about the challenge, they just want something they can lord over the “unwashed masses”)

I don’t think anyone is “lording” the skins from the S3 zones over each other, despite the fact that they’re rewarded for specific content. I don’t think anyone is “lording” dungeon skins or legendary fractal packs over anyone.

It isn’t a desire to “lord” things over other players. It is a desire to feel that the rewards gained from specific challenges be reflective of those challenges.

People aren’t lying when they say that. You’re making the issue about you. Do you really think people log in every day to go “oh man, I’m gonna strut around in my legendaries and make people soooo jealous!”

No, people log in and go “I wonder what new stuff I can do.” or “I’m gonna get that thing I’ve been wanting!”

The lack of a satisfactory reward mechanism makes engaging in content less fun for the majority of players.

You mistakenly assume that rewards intended for specific content you may not enjoy is somehow about you. It isn’t about you. People aren’t raiding or acquiring legendary armor just to “lord it over you”

The fact that you feel this way is a larger reflection of your own sense of entitlement than an objective view of the player base at large. It is the mirror image of the small subset of legitimately rude players that you seem to think are the majority of those participating in this kind of content.

You are projecting your own antisocial attitude on to others where it most often does not exist.

Amaimon.7823:

btw, I have a question, other than the skins, what value would legendary armor have in PvP?
if you unlock just the skins, rather than the legendary functioning item, then I’m all okay for a much simpler acquisition method.

Thats all and good for Spvp but large scale pvp aka WvWvW you need the reverse.

Ardid.7203:

Why “raid people” has to get anything “special” for them? Because raids are hard? Why isn’t there something special for people who discover JP routes, then? Or for people who do the “ironman mode”? Or for good WvW commanders? There are lots of hard tasks in the game, some I would argue harder than raiding. Why are raiders treated with such privilege?

Completing JPs awards achievements and titles.

“Ironman” and “being a good commander” are not game systems.

Ironman is a system that Anet could quantify and I’d be all for there being special rewards for that.

“Being a good commander” isn’t something Anet can exactly quantify but the WvW rewards systems in place do in fact have mechanisms to reward effective WvW play. That’s why they revamped WvW rewards.

Being the fist to complete a piece of content is something they could quantify with specific rewards, but those systems are a bad use of resources because unlike raids, those rewards could only ever be gained once by a single person, unlike raids or dungeons or high level fractals which are sitting there waiting to be taken on and completed by every player regardless of when they join the game.

PopeUrban.2578:

Ardid.7203:

Why “raid people” has to get anything “special” for them? Because raids are hard? Why isn’t there something special for people who discover JP routes, then? Or for people who do the “ironman mode”? Or for good WvW commanders? There are lots of hard tasks in the game, some I would argue harder than raiding. Why are raiders treated with such privilege?

Completing JPs awards achievements and titles.

“Ironman” and “being a good commander” are not game systems.

Ironman is a system that Anet could quantify and I’d be all for there being special rewards for that.

“Being a good commander” isn’t something Anet can exactly quantify but the WvW rewards systems in place do in fact have mechanisms to reward effective WvW play. That’s why they revamped WvW rewards.

Being the fist to complete a piece of content is something they could quantify with specific rewards, but those systems are a bad use of resources because unlike raids, those rewards could only ever be gained once by a single person, unlike raids or dungeons or high level fractals which are sitting there waiting to be taken on and completed by every player regardless of when they join the game.

Well since Jp awards achievements and titles + a box with 2 blues and a green shouldent raid award achievements and titles + a box with 2 yellows and a orange then?

Linken.6345:

PopeUrban.2578:

Ardid.7203:

Why “raid people” has to get anything “special” for them? Because raids are hard? Why isn’t there something special for people who discover JP routes, then? Or for people who do the “ironman mode”? Or for good WvW commanders? There are lots of hard tasks in the game, some I would argue harder than raiding. Why are raiders treated with such privilege?

Completing JPs awards achievements and titles.

“Ironman” and “being a good commander” are not game systems.

Ironman is a system that Anet could quantify and I’d be all for there being special rewards for that.

“Being a good commander” isn’t something Anet can exactly quantify but the WvW rewards systems in place do in fact have mechanisms to reward effective WvW play. That’s why they revamped WvW rewards.

Being the fist to complete a piece of content is something they could quantify with specific rewards, but those systems are a bad use of resources because unlike raids, those rewards could only ever be gained once by a single person, unlike raids or dungeons or high level fractals which are sitting there waiting to be taken on and completed by every player regardless of when they join the game.

Well since Jp awards achievements and titles + a box with 2 blues and a green shouldent raid award achievements and titles + a box with 2 yellows and a orange then?

Raids are significantly more challenging than JPs, require a high degree of teamwork, in addition to having a much longer cooldown for reward acquisition between completions.

Whether you believe this additional challenge merits the specific level of rewards raids pay out is subjective. I think its fine. Anet seems to think its fine.

However, a unique set of skins for collecting JP achievements would be really neat. Of course then someone would find a way to complain about it because they don’t like doing JPs.

It is impossible to adjust reward equity for personal player preference. Adjusting it for how farmable the content is, however, is the metric by which most games assign the rarity of rewards. Raids are, specifically, the least farmable content in the game due to their overall difficulty, party composition requirements, and week long reward cooldown.

The entire point isn’t to make raids attractive to every player. The point is to make raids feel rewarding for the people completing them. Its the same reason world boss chests were updated.

Arguments about ‘reward equity’ are ridiculous because it is an impossible goal to achieve due to the subjective nature of player content preference. The fact is that, in terms of strict equity, open world farming or buying gems produces the largest portion of rewards, and is capable of reaching, with far less effort invested, every benefit that raid rewards do.

And that’s unique to GW2 because it does in fact care that raiders aren’t functionally better at all other content on virtue of having inflated gear stats.

I agree not everyone wants legendary armor so they can lord it over players that don’t have it. I do however think there is a portion of smug, condescending players that do. These are the same types who rapidly respond to forum entries with “git gud” or “plebs” etc……. So I see where people might resent this type of attitude getting rewarded.

I don’t think Anet will create legendary armour or expand it to other game mode… because they don’t even want to create it in the first place, it is to costly to make and test, and they are better off finishing legendary weapons which are still MIA. they really only create this because they “promise” it will be in the game. so this is more to cover their backside then content that they wanted to add in.

legendary armour doesn’t offer player any advantage or look that much better then certain “time limited” outfits. if they want to expand on that, they would have to address the fact that existing legendary armour still doesn’t feel legendary enough…

i created it just cause i have all the material anyway, and I didn’t really felt impressed by how it looked. it look worst then the outfit i had bought with gems, the only thing u get is the cool factor from other players. I have even seen player who crafted the set and tranmuted them… >_>

also i don’t think pvp will ever be a means to get legendary armour since it already has a unique legendary backpiece. also how are u going to implement “challenge mode” to defeating player? do you have to win match with your healing reduce to half? do you have to stand in “safe spot” or take double damage from enemy player? how do one do “collection” in pvp where you want the match to be “fair” and “ranked”? and if it is only for the top 100 players, wouldn’t that be more exclusive then raid where there is no “player capped” on how many people can get it?

if there is a mode that lack legendary gear it is wvw… however i doubt armour would be a good reward for that game mode, the visibility just put a target on you in the battlefield. wvw do need some reward, but it unlikely to be a legendary atm because wvw player are “poor”… wvw need to address the “thin reward” and “high cost”… the free siege reward is a good start to reduce cost, but the reward is still thin… would I have enough material to craft a legendary if I never play PVE? obiviously not… only after buffing the mode do i feel a legendary of some kind (may or may not be armour) is considered.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

PopeUrban.2578:

My personal opinion is that challenging content should be rewarded with more impressive loot than less challenging content.

The people who begged Anet for challenging content claimed that it was the challenge itself they wanted, so therefore the challenge is the better reward.

(those people were lying, of course, as seen by their reactions in topics like this. They don’t care about the challenge, they just want something they can lord over the “unwashed masses”)

First, there are lots of different types of people raiding, including many that were against raiding originally. Lots of people care more about the challenge than the rewards; the shinies are just an excuse to keep going sometimes.

Regardless, it wasn’t raiders who decided to put gate all GW2 legendary armor behind raids; that’s entirely on ANet. Now that it’s there, ANet doesn’t have all that many alternatives.

• Keep things the way they are and hope critics become less cranky over time.
• Add non-raiding alternatives to getting L-Armor, and create an entire new group of cranky people over the fact that they removed a significant & unique reward from raids.
• Add the non-raiding alternatives and invent a new significant & unique reward for raiders. That, too, will generate crankiness plus it’s a heckuva lot of work.

I think they were foolish to think that making L-Armor raid exclusive was going to go over well with non-raiders, a group they knew would be the majority of players. But having made that decision, I don’t really see that it’s easy for them to go back and change it and leave the community better off than we are now.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

PopeUrban.2578:

My personal opinion is that challenging content should be rewarded with more impressive loot than less challenging content.

The people who begged Anet for challenging content claimed that it was the challenge itself they wanted, so therefore the challenge is the better reward.

(those people were lying, of course, as seen by their reactions in topics like this. They don’t care about the challenge, they just want something they can lord over the “unwashed masses”)

First, there are lots of different types of people raiding, including many that were against raiding originally. Lots of people care more about the challenge than the rewards; the shinies are just an excuse to keep going sometimes.

Regardless, it wasn’t raiders who decided to put gate all GW2 legendary armor behind raids; that’s entirely on ANet. Now that it’s there, ANet doesn’t have all that many alternatives.

• Keep things the way they are and hope critics become less cranky over time.
• Add non-raiding alternatives to getting L-Armor, and create an entire new group of cranky people over the fact that they removed a significant & unique reward from raids.
• Add the non-raiding alternatives *and invent a new significant & unique reward for raiders. That, too, will generate crankiness plus it’s a heckuva lot of work.*

I think they were foolish to think that making L-Armor raid exclusive was going to go over well with non-raiders, a group they knew would be the majority of players. But having made that decision, I don’t really see that it’s easy for them to go back and change it and leave the community better off than we are now.

I dont see why you need an and on your third choice there, the raiders will still have their fancy exclusive skin/legendary armor so they are not losing a reward and hence dont need to gain another.

After having to do x2-4x work ( legendary armor for WvWvW, spvp and regular pve) maybe anet learns to not lock a gear functionality behind 1 kind of content that cant be completed by everyone.

The thing in the brackets are typed in order of most important to least, since WvWvW really lack rewards atm and anyone can do it given time. Spvp and pve already got the backpacks so less important there and pve got the weapons making it the last priorty.

Ofcourse Raids and WvW should get their backpacks sometime in the future aswell.

I’m not for an alternative legendary armor for spvp or wvw.
I am for an alternative way of obtaining Li, for spvp and WvW, and the opening of the legendary collection for spvp and WvW.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

That’s a separate issue. Any “pleb” can get every other legendary in the game except this one.

This isn’t true. Try getting The Ascension as a PvE-only player.

Feanor.2358:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

That’s a separate issue. Any “pleb” can get every other legendary in the game except this one.

This isn’t true. Try getting The Ascension as a PvE-only player.

I’m a pleb in PvP, I already got 2/4 tiers done. You don’t need to play platinum league to get it, bronze1 is just fine, it just takes a little longer (I dance around bronze 2-3, once got into silver, but didn’t like the toxicity there so went back down to bronze)

I must be missing something……. When did Illconceived say pve-only??

He said in the game.

Amaimon.7823:

Feanor.2358:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

That’s a separate issue. Any “pleb” can get every other legendary in the game except this one.

This isn’t true. Try getting The Ascension as a PvE-only player.

I’m a pleb in PvP, I already got 2/4 tiers done. You don’t need to play platinum league to get it, bronze1 is just fine, it just takes a little longer (I dance around bronze 2-3, once got into silver, but didn’t like the toxicity there so went back down to bronze)

So now you’re saying “I can take the one, I can’t take the other”. It’s the opposite for me – I’m fine with raids, I dislike PvP to the point I don’t play it at all any more. So it appears all your argument is just subjectivity.

Fractals- legendary backpiece 1 very insignificant piece of armor minimal stats

PvP – legendary backpiece 1 very insignificant piece of armor minimal stats

Raids- full suit of legendary armor 6 significant pieces of armor significant stats that
can be changed on the fly

rewards seem a bit unbalanced

Feanor.2358:

Amaimon.7823:

Feanor.2358:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

That’s a separate issue. Any “pleb” can get every other legendary in the game except this one.

This isn’t true. Try getting The Ascension as a PvE-only player.

I’m a pleb in PvP, I already got 2/4 tiers done. You don’t need to play platinum league to get it, bronze1 is just fine, it just takes a little longer (I dance around bronze 2-3, once got into silver, but didn’t like the toxicity there so went back down to bronze)

So now you’re saying “I can take the one, I can’t take the other”. It’s the opposite for me – I’m fine with raids, I dislike PvP to the point I don’t play it at all any more. So it appears all your argument is just subjectivity.

No, he’s saying that the pvp requirements of the Ascension are on the level of only farming escort and never needing to do any other bosses. If that’s all what envoy armor required, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

Astralporing.1957:

No, he’s saying that the pvp requirements of the Ascension are on the level of only farming escort and never needing to do any other bosses. If that’s all what envoy armor required, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

Oh, but we would. It would just be “why can we only get 1 LI per week, pls make it so we can farm <easy boss of choice> as much as we want”.

Dashingsteel.3410:

Fractals- legendary backpiece 1 very insignificant piece of armor minimal stats

PvP – legendary backpiece 1 very insignificant piece of armor minimal stats

Raids- full suit of legendary armor 6 significant pieces of armor significant stats that
can be changed on the fly

rewards seem a bit unbalanced

You can stat-change armor in the Mystic Forge. It ends up being a LOT cheaper. The functionality is widely perceived to be a big deal. But most players very rarely, if ever, stat-swap their legendaries. Same goes for rune swapping, really.

Feanor.2358:

Astralporing.1957:

No, he’s saying that the pvp requirements of the Ascension are on the level of only farming escort and never needing to do any other bosses. If that’s all what envoy armor required, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

Oh, but we would. It would just be “why can we only get 1 LI per week, pls make it so we can farm <easy boss of choice> as much as we want”.

Dashingsteel.3410:

Fractals- legendary backpiece 1 very insignificant piece of armor minimal stats

PvP – legendary backpiece 1 very insignificant piece of armor minimal stats

Raids- full suit of legendary armor 6 significant pieces of armor significant stats that
can be changed on the fly

rewards seem a bit unbalanced

You can stat-change armor in the Mystic Forge. It ends up being a LOT cheaper. The functionality is widely perceived to be a big deal. But most players very rarely, if ever, stat-swap their legendaries. Same goes for rune swapping, really.

How can you know why people dont swap their builds. Its like you telling the inventor of the car most people dont travel more than 4 or so miles from their home, creating/selling a car isnt worth it.

maybe the reason people dont swap stats a lot, is because they dont have access to a quick way to change their stats?

phys.7689:

How can you know why people dont swap their builds. Its like you telling the inventor of the car most people dont travel more than 4 or so miles from their home, creating/selling a car isnt worth it.

maybe the reason people dont swap stats a lot, is because they dont have access to a quick way to change their stats?

Because I’ve tried it myself. It seems like a convenience, but it’s actually too much of a hassle to do it constantly. It works if I want to switch to another build and play it in the next weeks/months. It doesn’t work if I want to constantly swap builds depending on the situation. Having to click my way through the inventory interface and select stats and runes for each piece individually ruins the fun of playing the game. Not to mention I still can’t replace sigils and need to also change traits and skills afterwards. I don’t believe there’s a person who likes this amount of interface “play”.

And if you’re concerned about changing builds to play for longer periods, then it would be much cheaper to just stat-swap in the MF and replace the runes/sigils. Going for legendaries isn’t cost effective. They are just vanity items.

Feanor.2358:

Because I’ve tried it myself. It seems like a convenience, but it’s actually too much of a hassle to do it constantly.

True, it’s mostly useless… if you can do it with a weapon only. The more gear with such a capability you posess however, the more useful it becomes. Besides, the reasons why people might swap stats is different for everyone.
So no, you not swapping stats on your legendary weapon is not a proof having a stat-swappable weapon and armor wouldn’t be useful for others.

Astralporing.1957:

Feanor.2358:

Because I’ve tried it myself. It seems like a convenience, but it’s actually too much of a hassle to do it constantly.

True, it’s mostly useless… if you can do it with a weapon only. The more gear with such a capability you posess however, the more useful it becomes. Besides, the reasons why people might swap stats is different for everyone.
So no, you not swapping stats on your legendary weapon is not a proof having a stat-swappable weapon and armor wouldn’t be useful for others.

Technically true, however during the years I’ve developed a kind of sense for it. I needed to, my job is to develop games and mechanic/interface usability is an important part of it. So no, I believe people at large won’t be stat-swapping often, for the reasons I gave in my previous post. Regardless of the number of stat-selectable items. This is what my experience tells me. There will always be the exceptions, of course. But their numbers will be rather small, as usual. Much smaller than the number of players using this argument. By the way, I’m not accusing anyone of deliberately lying here. I’m sure the vast majority of said players believe in truth they’d be using this feature. I thought that myself. But I was wrong and I believe they are wrong, too.

Hours. Days. Maybe when you 1st start learning. You can clear all 4 wings in under 3 hrs. Your right, they should include it in the other game modes. What’s my plan for this you ask. REWARD TRACKS. I mean, yeah, why not. Let the other modes have access to it. Here’s the catch you are capped at 13 Legendary insight total, per accout, per week, regardless of what mode you chose to play. You just need 300LI to craft your set of armor. Thats fair in my eyes. That’s about 23 weeks of grinding everyone has to do, whether you play pve, pvp or wvw. All the other things that have to go into it, like acquiring provisioner tokens, should stay the same. I know people will complain “but pve only used 150 LI for thier 1st set.” Well guess what you can too, just do the kitten collection like we did. Easy.