As we know, Arena Net has been leaking detail after detail about our favorite features of the Tyria we have come to love. But as with the attacks from Scarlet and her awakening of Mordremoth had a profound affect on Tyria, so too is Anet’s expansion pack going to affect Guild Wars 2 forever.
As each post comes out about the new changes HoT is bringing to GW2, I cannot help but have this sense of impending doom on the players who will not buy this pack.
And my feelings are thus: In every aspect, I cannot see how players, who own HoT and those who do not, can play together not only in general PvE, but also in the competitive circuit.
Take for example this from the Specialization blog post: “What we’re trying to do with specialization is take everything that was positive about the Trait system and boil it down while removing or modifying the parts we felt held it back.”
…okay sooooo that means that those who buy HoT will get the benefits of specializations and, as the blog post further explains, different traits from those that don’t buy HoT? But don’t take my word for it, look at the WvW post.
So, ALL WvW is getting affected. ALL the elements of WvW are getting this change, which means non-HoT maps and the new HoT map too. Yes, it could be argued that this is merely going to be a patch and come free to non-HoT players, but I counter you and ask what then about the enemies you will face in WvW when HoT comes out? Will Anet find it fair that those that paid for HoT will be able to face non-HoT players on non-HoT maps? I sure don’t!
So what options does that leave? 1) Prevent non-HoT players from entering any competitive scene that has HoT players. or 2) Create 2 separate instances for HoT players to play HoT players and non with non.
As I see it, Anet will most likely follow the latter and then what? Upkeep 2 instances and spend more time and money to keep the community separate save for Cities (LA, BC, DR, etc.). Well, they will do this for maybe 6 months but after that?
TL; DR- If Anet is really revolutionizing GW2 with HoT, this is not an Xpac, but a (for lack of better explanation) paid patch disguised as some flashy, cool stuff!
int endrant() {
run discussion0;
}I’m assuming this is yet another thinly-veiled “HoT is P2W” post. As I, and many others have posted elsewhere, there are a number of things:
1) Elite specs are not necessarily more powerful, but they will open up new playstyles on classes that otherwise didn’t have them before. If they balance this, then there is no issue.
2) GW2 almost exclusively progresses horizontally (achievements, unlocks, puzzles, etc.) rather than vertically (level cap increase, gear level increase, new tier of dungeons and raids that can’t be done by the previous levels). The only real exception to this is when Ascended armor was introduced as it provided a little bit of a gear treadmill, but not much because exotics aren’t too bad as they are and they are extremely inexpensive to outfit an 80 in, even for a new player. Since the progression is horizontal, there isn’t a natural way to “prevent” people without the expansion from playing the “next level” of content, but Anet expansions are still that and people pay for the content.
3) This is nothing new. GW1 expansions had new classes and exclusive skills for those that bought the expansion packs. These players could all play together with those who didn’t have the expansion as well.
4) It’s a regular Buy2Play expansion, just like any other game. Everyone is offered the expansion for the exact same price, and no amount of extra money will give you greater benefits than other players.
5) And finally, you and anybody else that wants the new content are going to get HoT. If you are really vested in enjoying the game to its fullest, then you are going to get it anyway. This last point is less important than the first four, but it is still important anyway.
Huh? this post makes no sense. All profession changes are part of the patch that will introduce HoT, no purchase required. The only things you will need to buy the expansion for are:
1. New maps
2. New living Story
3. Guild halls
4. POSSIBLY new legendary weapons (unclear)
Everything else is included in the base game.
Huh? this post makes no sense. All profession changes are part of the patch that will introduce HoT, no purchase required. The only things you will need to buy the expansion for are:
1. New maps
2. New living Story
3. Guild halls
4. POSSIBLY new legendary weapons (unclear)Everything else is included in the base game.
This might require HoT if any of the tasks required to make them are done in the new zones. Given the massive number of things that need to be done, I could imagine them putting at least one of those tasks in the jungles per weapon.
Huh? this post makes no sense. All profession changes are part of the patch that will introduce HoT, no purchase required. The only things you will need to buy the expansion for are:
1. New maps
2. New living Story
3. Guild halls
4. POSSIBLY new legendary weapons (unclear)Everything else is included in the base game.
Where has that been stated that ALL this work Anet is doing will be a Free patch? They claim this is ALL going to be released in HoT; in every blog post, it is a new cool thing that “we are releasing in HoT.”
I’m assuming this is yet another thinly-veiled “HoT is P2W” post.
Um what? If I came across that way, that is not what I feel. This pack is going to change the core game so much that non-HoT players will be stuck in the stone age compared to where Anet is wanting to take this xpack. In no way do I think this is P2W.
I am just concerned that the direction Anet seems to be wanting to go with HoT is going to alienate the community into 2 factions where Anet will cater to the HoT faction more than not.
(edited by Atros.9607)
Huh? this post makes no sense. All profession changes are part of the patch that will introduce HoT, no purchase required. The only things you will need to buy the expansion for are:
1. New maps
2. New living Story
3. Guild halls
4. POSSIBLY new legendary weapons (unclear)Everything else is included in the base game.
Where has that been stated that ALL this work Anet is doing will be a Free patch? They claim this is ALL going to be released in HoT; in every blog post, it is a new cool thing that “we are releasing in HoT.”
I’m assuming this is yet another thinly-veiled “HoT is P2W” post.
Um what? If I came across that way, that is not what I feel. This pack is going to change the core game so much that non-HoT players will be stuck in the stone age compared to where Anet is wanting to take this xpack. In no way do I think this is P2W.
I am just concerned that the direction Anet seems to be wanting to go with HoT is going to alienate the community into 2 factions where Anet will cater to the HoT faction more than not.
Because that’s how every expansion works… ever… I did forget to include revenant. You will not be able to make a revenant without buying the expansion. I don’t know of any game ever that has been different in the launch of an expansion.
New zones, stories, armor, dungeons, raids and classes are what you get from buying the expansion.
Balance, PvP maps, and mechanics changes are a free update that launches at the exact same time as the expansion. For HoT this includes specializations, trait changes, WvW maps and PvP changes.
Edit: and of course the purpose of the expansion is to make you upgrade. After HoT launches there will be no new content for players without the expansion, any future updates will evolve and change the NEW zones, not the old ones. Generally if you’ve already completed all the original content you will need to buy the expansion, or be left behind. New players can experience the original game first before upgrading.
(edited by ZudetGambeous.9573)
Traits are now becoming specializations, which is what that quote is referring to. This change is actually coming with a patch before the expansion. All specializations (i.e. trait lines) are getting restructured and rebalanced, losing some traits, merging some and getting new ones. Grand Masters are getting the biggest overhaul as we can now only choose from three loosing versatility but gaining in power of each trait. The only thing that is locked are ELITE specializations. This whole system if balanced properly will not leave players without HoT “in the dust”. Players with the expansion will only be more versatile. You will still be able to compete in every aspect of the game PvE, WvW and PvP.
And as for new content, of course it will be mostly focused on players with the expansion. That is what expansions are for.
A lot of these changes are not expansion-specific changes; they’re changes and additions to the base game.
For example, the new Specialisation system will be replacing the current trait system for all players. Only the Elite Specs will be exclusive to HoT players. Not to mention that this system will be coming in before HoT launches:
The new system will come to the live game before the launch of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™, allowing players to experience the changes to core specializations and stockpile Hero Points for their elite specializations. While elite specializations will be available to everyone who purchases the expansion, the upcoming core specialization changes will affect the base game.
The things that we know are going to be exclusive to HoT so far are:
Things that we know are going to be added to the base game are:
This is how MMOs work. If people want to play the game, let them support the game. If they don’t want to support the game don’t have to. And they don’t get the benefit of the expansion.
In most MMOs, the level goes up with each expansion and if you don’t buy it, you’re in a world of trouble. Not so here. Gear tiers aren’t going up. Level isn’t going up.
By the standards of most MMOs, this is a very fair expansion.
But when games are updated in a major manor, it’s not unreasonable to expect people to pay for it.
It’s like saying those who bought the World of Warcraft expansions had unfair advantage with their new classes and races they could play.
Well, yes? That’s how it’s been with any MMO, really. That’s what fishes people up to but expansion packs, to get the new goods.
I’m curious. How can anyone have an ‘honest assessment’ of an expansion that is neither complete nor available to play?
You want my honest opinion. I just want a new WvW setting, cosmetic mounts like a giant pig, 2 million new weapon and armor skins
Since the general answer to this seems to be “buy the xpac” I’d recommend you move on right now if you’re not planning on getting it. There’s a couple of other good mmos you can get into, with actual content to experience instead of the mechanical grinding that seems to be the only thing left to do in gw2 now. There’s sod all coming for players outside the xpac.
Since the general answer to this seems to be “buy the xpac” I’d recommend you move on right now if you’re not planning on getting it. There’s a couple of other good mmos you can get into, with actual content to experience instead of the mechanical grinding that seems to be the only thing left to do in gw2 now. There’s sod all coming for players outside the xpac.
Don’t be disingenuous. The answer isn’t so much “buy the expansion” as it is “what do you expect them to do?”
Do you think it’s fair for ArenaNet to release Heart of Thorns, have a bunch of people buy it, but then have everything Heart of Thorns offers be available for free to players who didn’t buy the expansion? How does that make any remote sense?
“We’re sorry you don’t want to buy Heart of Thorns. Here – in the pursuit of fairness, have a ticket to the Maguuma Jungle, access to the Revenant profession, and tokens for all the elite specializations for the existing classes. We don’t want to split our playerbase, so we’re going to make everything the rest of these people over here paid for available to you for zero dollars. Because we know you’re upset that you can’t have all the new stuff too, for zero dollars.”
Ruminate on that for a moment, then ask yourself what, exactly, ArenaNet can do about this player divide that they aren’t already doing? And why you should be able to get 100% of Heart of Thorns content for free when the rest of us have to pony up our forty bucks for it?
What boggles my mind is that people have a problem all of a sudden with paying for an expansion. Expansions have never been free, and the content that we received prior to the expansion was absolutely free (which means, you’ve already gotten quite a lot of bang for your buck).
People who like playing the portions of the game they already have can choose to not buy the expansion and simply play those same portions over again ad infinitum. This is not a problem if you do not want the new content. In fact, it’s a pretty sweet deal because if you just want to leave and hop back on to run a dungeon every two to three weeks or play a pvp match while your waiting for your GF/BF to come home, you can still do that… without having to pay a dime.
If you like the game and want to see it grow and continue to play new content, then you really should support them with your money-dollars. And if you don’t, you won’t be isolated. You just won’t get all the shiny new things that you didn’t pay for.
And if your friends who DID buy HoT don’t want to come back and do old content with you (which they will.. nobody is going to camp out in Maguuma for the rest of ever), then maybe you should join or start a guild for people who did not buy the x-pack.
There are a lot of options. If someone doesn’t pick the option that lets them continue into Maguma, they certainly can’t complain about not picking the option. It is, and always will be (for the life of the game) an option for them to choose if they become interested again later or suddenly have more free-time to play, or whatever justification they made for not buying it in the first place.
(edited by soakman.7539)
I’m curious. How can anyone have an ‘honest assessment’ of an expansion that is neither complete nor available to play?
^This. I opened this post just to say the same thing. It boggles the mind. +1
A lot of these changes are not expansion-specific changes; they’re changes and additions to the base game.
For example, the new Specialisation system will be replacing the current trait system for all players. Only the Elite Specs will be exclusive to HoT players. Not to mention that this system will be coming in before HoT launches:
The new system will come to the live game before the launch of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™, allowing players to experience the changes to core specializations and stockpile Hero Points for their elite specializations. While elite specializations will be available to everyone who purchases the expansion, the upcoming core specialization changes will affect the base game.
The things that we know are going to be exclusive to HoT so far are:
- The HoT content (maps and any content in them maps)
- Revenant
- Elite Specializations
- The PvE Mastery system
Things that we know are going to be added to the base game are:
- The new WvW map (replacing the current one)
- Stronghold
- Core Specialisation system
Can you link me the article that says we are getting these core changes for free? Not to be sarcastic, I am genuinely curious.
What boggles my mind is that people have a problem all of a sudden with paying for an expansion.
Again, to clarify, I am not complaining. Just saying what I feel. I have no problem shelling the cash for this pack. I am worried about the people that won’t buy the pack.
I’m curious. How can anyone have an ‘honest assessment’ of an expansion that is neither complete nor available to play?
^This. I opened this post just to say the same thing. It boggles the mind. +1
Incomplete? Development-wise, yes. Content-wise, no! Anet told us from the very beginning what is coming with the HoT. So, yes I can (and will) make an honest assessment on something I get news stories and blog posts about, in full detail, every week.
Look the real argument here is the GW 2 is not GW 1. Anet proved they could be trusted to accurately all those skills and thereby successfully insert new play-styles, classes, and skills into an existing universe.
GW 2 had proven that Anet is now willing to give portions of the community the middle finger (WvW) and play harder to the money side of things. This is not an argument that GW 2 should fail. This is not an argument that no one should pay for HoT.
This is an argument that ultimately the inherent trust that there will be BALANCE is gone. People keep saying in this thread “Well yeah, EVERY MMO does this.” Last I checked, Anet set out to have GW/GW 2 NOT be every other MMO out there.
All expansions bring new content to a game and new benefits and perks. Not buying an expansion for any game essentially brings a person to a grinding halt at some point. This is expected and normal. There’s nothing wrong with it and it’s not P2W.
Why would anyone believe that GW2 is going to be different?
I’m curious. How can anyone have an ‘honest assessment’ of an expansion that is neither complete nor available to play?
Easy. It’s an honest personal opinion not a factual, accurate, complete or objective assessment
Can you link me the article that says we are getting these core changes for free? Not to be sarcastic, I am genuinely curious.
Mate, if you are going to write posts like this, it would be a good idea to at least be up to date with the available information out there. All of this has been posted on this very site, in the HoT blogs. This is from the Ready Up Core Specializations summary.
The new system will come to the live game before the launch of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™, allowing players to experience the changes to core specializations and stockpile Hero Points for their elite specializations. While elite specializations will be available to everyone who purchases the expansion, the upcoming core specialization changes will affect the base game.
Most skill and trait unlocks will cost five Hero Points. While the numbers should not be considered final or absolute, Jon estimated that it will require roughly 465 Hero Points to unlock every trait and skill available to a character. The process of leveling to 80 will award about 400 Hero Points, so players will only need to complete a fraction of the available hero challenges to have enough points to unlock everything. The system is designed to give players access to skills and traits much faster than in the current system, with the number of Hero Points gained from leveling set to increase at higher levels. Excess Hero Points beyond the number required for unlocks will be converted into a currency, which will be stored in the account-wide wallet. More information on the currency will come at a later date, so keep an eye out!
It’s changing traits to core specs. Yes they will be free, otherwise the core game would be unplayable. You already paid for them, and you unlock them as you level.
Where has that been stated that ALL this work Anet is doing will be a Free patch? They claim this is ALL going to be released in HoT; in every blog post, it is a new cool thing that “we are releasing in HoT.”
I can only assume if you read the blogs then you have watched the Ready Up episode about specialization, in which they said this right before going into the changes to the trait system
this link, I timed it for you right when Jon Peters ‘Design Lead’ said the core spec (trait changes) ARE coming before HoT while the Elite specs will come with HoT
Buy the XPAC! So whats the problem? Can you watch a movie without a movie ticket? NO! Like in GW1 there are some skills that you cant use unless you have the xpac bought and etc….. Not sure about GW2 though, So buy Xpac support Anet and everybody’s happy.
Always people trying to get stuff for free even though EVERY other decent MMO requires payment for expansions, regardless, at least it isn’t like WoW where you get left behind in levels and gear too.
Always people trying to get stuff for free even though EVERY other decent MMO requires payment for expansions, regardless, at least it isn’t like WoW where you get left behind in levels and gear too.
or have to pay 15 bucks a month to play it.
Since the general answer to this seems to be “buy the xpac” I’d recommend you move on right now if you’re not planning on getting it. There’s a couple of other good mmos you can get into, with actual content to experience instead of the mechanical grinding that seems to be the only thing left to do in gw2 now. There’s sod all coming for players outside the xpac.
Don’t be disingenuous. The answer isn’t so much “buy the expansion” as it is “what do you expect them to do?”
Regardless of Anet’s situation, the facts are that there will be a permanent wedge driven between players who will and will not buy the xpac. What I suggested is the practical thing to do as someone who will not buy it. This purely based on pragmatism and not any moral standing.
All the content players have enjoyed thus far is the extent of what they got out of their initial purchase. For those who do not wish to buy HoT, it is best to leave now rather than to stick around and hope for something new.
(edited by Crossflip.4390)
Again, to clarify, I am not complaining. Just saying what I feel. I have no problem shelling the cash for this pack. I am worried about the people that won’t buy the pack.
Why is it any concern to you if other people don’t buy the ex-pack? I, and everyone else here, is struggling to see a reason why this would be a worry on anybody’s mind. The expansions aren’t expensive, there is no undue burden on the players. If they really aren’t interested enough in GW2 then they aren’t going to get the expansion. This isn’t selfish to not be concerned about those people, because the overwhelming majority of players that do have a problem with the ex-pack needing to be bought are those who have never bought an expansion before and think GW2 is Pay2Win. (This is the reason I brought this up in the beginning, because there have been numerous posts claiming it’s Pay2Win but the fact is it is far from it).
HOT looks like it’s going to be a lot of fun. The art and zone designers did an amazing job building what I have seen so far. This expansion looks like it’s going to continue in the tradition of Silverwastes and Dry Top where teamwork and planning are going to trump brute strength which is going to kitten off a lot of the elitist solo players who don’t seem to think they have to work with other players to achieve goals. I applaud Anet for moving this game further into the “MMO” concept of community and cooperation.
Many of the fights were obviously not polished but from what I observed they have a strong foundation. The boss event on top of the ruins was an absolute blast and once we figured to split into 2 teams and communicate it wasn’t that difficult. Moving through from event to event was fluid and there was never really a question of where to go next if you paid attention to your surroundings and map chat.
My major complaints will most likely be answered during the refinement process, the biggest one being the amount of mobs immune to CC during events where CC is the key to winning if you don’t have massive dps. Equipping the entire beta force in celestail with dolyak runes and then taking away CC made it near to impossible to keep mobs from blitzing the supply stacks. Also protecting the soldiers from suiciding into huge packs of mobs was near to impossible unless you had a large show of force to burn the packs down fast. The leash points on the trolls in the tree city was also very unforgiving especially when you consider many players are using ranged abilities of 1200 to 1500 all it took was the mob to run to th eplayer to completely reset it’s health.
The UI for the mastery points is very unfriendly. The check box up top is going to cause many players to waste the first couple of levels of xp they would have earned unless they know how to use it because many will assume that earning a mastery point means you can actually spend it to gain an ability, not just unlock one to be leveled. Also the UI for gliding was confusing for me because I use my side mouse button to jump and spacebar to tab target meaning I had to click once again to turn off gliding once i got where I wanted to lower elevation.
My main toon is a ranger and is what I used to test on both accounts I got portals on. PLEASE give Rangers 2 pets in the next beta so that we can accurately use them to drop and swap agro and switch between DPS and Tanky pets.
All core-game changes will be available to all players, even if they don’t have HoT.
New Content, such as:
…won’t be available unless you buy HoT. This is and will always be the case with MMO expansions.
I’m curious. How can anyone have an ‘honest assessment’ of an expansion that is neither complete nor available to play?
^This. I opened this post just to say the same thing. It boggles the mind. +1
Incomplete? Development-wise, yes. Content-wise, no! Anet told us from the very beginning what is coming with the HoT. So, yes I can (and will) make an honest assessment on something I get news stories and blog posts about, in full detail, every week.
From the beginning they have told us just some of what is coming. Even that information is not in its entirety.
No one says you can’t make an assessment of anything. Just don’t ask to be taken very seriously when you are making assessments (i.e. judgments) about an entire expansion when you only have incomplete information on that expansion. And yes, it is incomplete information. You only know the basis of the content not its full scope. You seem to imply that we know all there is to know about the content of HoT and that is absurd.
All core-game changes will be available to all players, even if they don’t have HoT.
New Content, such as:
- Masteries
- Elite Specializations
- New Zones
- New Living Story
…won’t be available unless you buy HoT. This is and will always be the case with MMO expansions.
As of now, the only “Core game changes” I am aware of are the trait rework that comes before the xpac and the two mastery lines for legendaries and fractals. Both of those cater to niche hardcore parts of the playerbase, so really all we’re getting is a big balance change that adds very little in terms of gameplay hours.
I know Anet might still announce features/content outside the xpac but I’m not counting on it.
All core-game changes will be available to all players, even if they don’t have HoT.
New Content, such as:
- Masteries
- Elite Specializations
- New Zones
- New Living Story
…won’t be available unless you buy HoT. This is and will always be the case with MMO expansions.
As of now, the only “Core game changes” I am aware of are the trait rework that comes before the xpac and the two mastery lines for legendaries and fractals. Both of those cater to niche hardcore parts of the playerbase, so really all we’re getting is a big balance change that adds very little in terms of gameplay hours.
I know Anet might still announce features/content outside the xpac but I’m not counting on it.
Sir, I believe you are mistaken.
Off of the top of my head, changes to the core game include:
As for more hours of gameplay for non-expansion buyers… I’m sorry to say it, but almost no MMO Expansion will provide more gameplay hours to people who don’t buy the expansion. Why would developers develop an expansion if people would have just as much fun not buying it? It’s nonsensical… ArenaNet is a business, not a charity, and, frankly, they are giving more to the base game than most MMO Expansions (the one exception I can think of is WoW Cataclysm).
Arena Net is even making it easier for people who don’t buy the expansion by giving them a whole new game mode, not making their end-game gear obsolete, and not excluding them from high-level PvP.
But please, continue to QQ about how people who buy the expansion will get more content than people who don’t—and hopefully realize how stupid of a complaint that is to make.
mhmm wait … we are talking 40-50 € maximum here … not a new car price … who can’t afford that?
mhmm wait … we are talking 40-50 € maximum here … not a new car price … who can’t afford that?
As far as I can tell it’s more the ideal of the matter than the practicality of it.
Atros, do you plan on purchasing the expansion?
Expansion does give me extra incentive to stop buying gems. I used to justify it as “supporting the game”. After all, the game was continuing to be developed after I plunked down the inital box price.
Now, development has thinned to a trickle, and seems to be awaiting a new box fee. So I’ll make sure to put my wallet away until HoT release.
I honestly don’t have an issue as a WVW’er in purchasing an expansion, but I do have issue with having to grind PVE to bring all 9 of my 80’s back to competitive status for doing my WVW with those characters (aka.. the new mastery system/class skills).
My hope is that there will be alternatives to having to learn mushroom jumping and gliding skills to get the mastery’s needed for my competitive wvw play. Mind you I like exploring new maps and doing a little PVE from time to time, I just don’t find having to grind for skill sets to accomplish it fun. And that’s the fear I have of this new mastery system.
All core-game changes will be available to all players, even if they don’t have HoT.
New Content, such as:
- Masteries
- Elite Specializations
- New Zones
- New Living Story
…won’t be available unless you buy HoT. This is and will always be the case with MMO expansions.
As of now, the only “Core game changes” I am aware of are the trait rework that comes before the xpac and the two mastery lines for legendaries and fractals. Both of those cater to niche hardcore parts of the playerbase, so really all we’re getting is a big balance change that adds very little in terms of gameplay hours.
I know Anet might still announce features/content outside the xpac but I’m not counting on it.
Sir, I believe you are mistaken.
Off of the top of my head, changes to the core game include:
- New WvWvW Borderlands
- New PvP GameMode
- Traits
- Any changes to existing zones as part of the living story
- New Weapon Stat Combinations
As for more hours of gameplay for non-expansion buyers… I’m sorry to say it, but almost no MMO Expansion will provide more gameplay hours to people who don’t buy the expansion. Why would developers develop an expansion if people would have just as much fun not buying it? It’s nonsensical… ArenaNet is a business, not a charity, and, frankly, they are giving more to the base game than most MMO Expansions (the one exception I can think of is WoW Cataclysm).
Arena Net is even making it easier for people who don’t buy the expansion by giving them a whole new game mode, not making their end-game gear obsolete, and not excluding them from high-level PvP.
I stand corrected. I also don’t actually expect more gameplay hours for people who don’t buy. I only said they wouldn’t get any and shouldn’t stick around waiting for it.
The mastery system seems like its going to take a really long time to level things up. If it will, make the last reward even more rewarding.
I honestly don’t have an issue as a WVW’er in purchasing an expansion, but I do have issue with having to grind PVE to bring all 9 of my 80’s back to competitive status for doing my WVW with those characters (aka.. the new mastery system/class skills).
My hope is that there will be alternatives to having to learn mushroom jumping and gliding skills to get the mastery’s needed for my competitive wvw play. Mind you I like exploring new maps and doing a little PVE from time to time, I just don’t find having to grind for skill sets to accomplish it fun. And that’s the fear I have of this new mastery system.
masteries wont effect WvW play, you may be thinking of hero points, which will require skill challenges.
masteries as of right now, is PVE progression
I honestly don’t have an issue as a WVW’er in purchasing an expansion, but I do have issue with having to grind PVE to bring all 9 of my 80’s back to competitive status for doing my WVW with those characters (aka.. the new mastery system/class skills).
My hope is that there will be alternatives to having to learn mushroom jumping and gliding skills to get the mastery’s needed for my competitive wvw play. Mind you I like exploring new maps and doing a little PVE from time to time, I just don’t find having to grind for skill sets to accomplish it fun. And that’s the fear I have of this new mastery system.
You won’t have to grind anything up to “be competitive”. As an 80, you’ll have 400 Hero Points to spend as you see fit among your trait and skill lines. You can absolutely make the build(s) you have right now and have points left over. The only issue (that remains unanswered anyway) is if you wanted to have literally everything unlocked, but even then you don’t actually need 100% of your skills to do WvW. That’s not an excuse, and Anet should address this sooner or later, but it sounds like you think you’re going to lose everything and that’s simply not the case.
I honestly don’t have an issue as a WVW’er in purchasing an expansion, but I do have issue with having to grind PVE to bring all 9 of my 80’s back to competitive status for doing my WVW with those characters (aka.. the new mastery system/class skills).
My hope is that there will be alternatives to having to learn mushroom jumping and gliding skills to get the mastery’s needed for my competitive wvw play. Mind you I like exploring new maps and doing a little PVE from time to time, I just don’t find having to grind for skill sets to accomplish it fun. And that’s the fear I have of this new mastery system.
You are mildly misinformed. Gliding and mushroom jumping aren’t part of WvW. They are part of the HoT PvE content. The masteries pertaining to them only level in HoT areas, and only affect HoT play. Not WvW.
Now, you may need to do some hero challenges (renamed from ‘skill’ challenges) to finish getting hero points for skill/specialization unlocks, but that’s something different entirely.
As an 80, you’ll have 400 Hero Points to spend as you see fit among your trait and skill lines. You can absolutely make the build(s) you have right now and have points left over.
We don’t know this for certain.
It also ignores the fact that it is common to switch builds between play modes. A person who engages in WvW, dungeons, and open world events most likely has a seperate build for each of those arenas. That could mean needing to unlock at least 4 of the 5 trait lines to get currently used builds. And because the new system has us go all the way to a grandmaster in each of our three trait lines, we will need to unlock any traitline close to completion (granmasters will likely be toward the end of the reward tracks).
The same goes true of skill tracks. The most useful, commonly used skills are likely to be toward the end of a track. That means if you only use one skill in a category, you could still be investing heavily in that track.
Unless there has been more information that I’m not aware of, ArenaNet just said the 400 HP from leveling would be enough to make “several unique full builds”. That isn’t the same thing as enough to “make the build(s) you have right now and have points left over.”
As an 80, you’ll have 400 Hero Points to spend as you see fit among your trait and skill lines. You can absolutely make the build(s) you have right now and have points left over.
We don’t know this for certain.
It also ignores the fact that it is common to switch builds between play modes. A person who engages in WvW, dungeons, and open world events most likely has a seperate build for each of those arenas. That could mean needing to unlock at least 4 of the 5 trait lines to get currently used builds. And because the new system has us go all the way to a grandmaster in each of our three trait lines, we will need to unlock any traitline close to completion (granmasters will likely be toward the end of the reward tracks).
The same goes true of skill tracks. The most useful, commonly used skills are likely to be toward the end of a track. That means if you only use one skill in a category, you could still be investing heavily in that track.
Unless there has been more information that I’m not aware of, ArenaNet just said the 400 HP from leveling would be enough to make “several unique full builds”. That isn’t the same thing as enough to “make the build(s) you have right now and have points left over.”
When I say this, it’s specifically with WvW-only players. You are absolutely right about not having enough to do WvW and PvE open world and PvE dungeons, but if you do PvE content then this isn’t much of an issue at all (especially since you’ll likely have all of the HPs unlocked unless you were actively avoiding the skill challenges). Typically a WvWer has a build they use. Sometimes two, I don’t tend to see many people with more than one anyway, but you can absolutely make your build again in WvW with just the points the give you if all you do is WvW. You might not be able to make two builds, but 3 trait lines and at most 3 utility lines will cost no more than about 300-350. Since you have 400, it’s more than enough.
Things that we know are going to be added to the base game are:
- The new WvW map (replacing the current one)
- Stronghold
- Core Specialisation system
Can you link me the article that says we are getting these core changes for free? Not to be sarcastic, I am genuinely curious.
Core Specialisations
The new system will come to the live game before the launch of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™, allowing players to experience the changes to core specializations and stockpile Hero Points for their elite specializations. While elite specializations will be available to everyone who purchases the expansion, the upcoming core specialization changes will affect the base game.
WvW
The Desert Borderlands Map will be replacing the old Borderlands map (Alpine Borderlands) when the expansion releases and we might reintroduce the old map in a rotation or tournament.
Stronghold
The Stronghold article that says it’s being added to the base game, I can’t find for the life of me. However:
When I say this, it’s specifically with WvW-only players. You are absolutely right about not having enough to do WvW and PvE open world and PvE dungeons, but if you do PvE content then this isn’t much of an issue at all (especially since you’ll likely have all of the HPs unlocked unless you were actively avoiding the skill challenges). Typically a WvWer has a build they use. Sometimes two, I don’t tend to see many people with more than one anyway, but you can absolutely make your build again in WvW with just the points the give you if all you do is WvW. You might not be able to make two builds, but 3 trait lines and at most 3 utility lines will cost no more than about 300-350. Since you have 400, it’s more than enough.
Fair point. Though I expect every hardcore WvWer has at least two builds. One for running with the zerg, and one for small group/solo roaming.
When I say this, it’s specifically with WvW-only players. You are absolutely right about not having enough to do WvW and PvE open world and PvE dungeons, but if you do PvE content then this isn’t much of an issue at all (especially since you’ll likely have all of the HPs unlocked unless you were actively avoiding the skill challenges). Typically a WvWer has a build they use. Sometimes two, I don’t tend to see many people with more than one anyway, but you can absolutely make your build again in WvW with just the points the give you if all you do is WvW. You might not be able to make two builds, but 3 trait lines and at most 3 utility lines will cost no more than about 300-350. Since you have 400, it’s more than enough.
Fair point. Though I expect every hardcore WvWer has at least two builds. One for running with the zerg, and one for small group/solo roaming.
If their builds overlap at all, it probably won’t be bad. Unless their two builds are using completely different trait lines and utilities, they will probably be fine. Another thing to remember, is that if you only need the VII Grandmaster in a line, then you don’t need to unlock VIII or IX, so you can save on HP by only just leveling your lines enough to get what you need.
I honestly don’t have an issue as a WVW’er in purchasing an expansion, but I do have issue with having to grind PVE to bring all 9 of my 80’s back to competitive status for doing my WVW with those characters (aka.. the new mastery system/class skills).
My hope is that there will be alternatives to having to learn mushroom jumping and gliding skills to get the mastery’s needed for my competitive wvw play. Mind you I like exploring new maps and doing a little PVE from time to time, I just don’t find having to grind for skill sets to accomplish it fun. And that’s the fear I have of this new mastery system.
masteries wont effect WvW play, you may be thinking of hero points, which will require skill challenges.
masteries as of right now, is PVE progression
So all the WvW would actually get from HoT is the elite specialisations.
You won’t have to grind anything up to “be competitive”. As an 80, you’ll have 400 Hero Points to spend as you see fit among your trait and skill lines. You can absolutely make the build(s) you have right now and have points left over. The only issue (that remains unanswered anyway) is if you wanted to have literally everything unlocked, but even then you don’t actually need 100% of your skills to do WvW. That’s not an excuse, and Anet should address this sooner or later, but it sounds like you think you’re going to lose everything and that’s simply not the case.
That’s not actually masteries though. That’s the new specialisation system.
I honestly don’t have an issue as a WVW’er in purchasing an expansion, but I do have issue with having to grind PVE to bring all 9 of my 80’s back to competitive status for doing my WVW with those characters (aka.. the new mastery system/class skills).
My hope is that there will be alternatives to having to learn mushroom jumping and gliding skills to get the mastery’s needed for my competitive wvw play. Mind you I like exploring new maps and doing a little PVE from time to time, I just don’t find having to grind for skill sets to accomplish it fun. And that’s the fear I have of this new mastery system.
masteries wont effect WvW play, you may be thinking of hero points, which will require skill challenges.
masteries as of right now, is PVE progressionSo all the WvW would actually get from HoT is the elite specialisations.
You won’t have to grind anything up to “be competitive”. As an 80, you’ll have 400 Hero Points to spend as you see fit among your trait and skill lines. You can absolutely make the build(s) you have right now and have points left over. The only issue (that remains unanswered anyway) is if you wanted to have literally everything unlocked, but even then you don’t actually need 100% of your skills to do WvW. That’s not an excuse, and Anet should address this sooner or later, but it sounds like you think you’re going to lose everything and that’s simply not the case.
That’s not actually masteries though. That’s the new specialisation system.
And as stated by others, you don’t need any Maguuma Jungle masteries to play WvW. If the OP is concerned that they won’t be competitive in WvW because they won’t be getting masteries, then we are letting them know that it isn’t anything to be concerned about.
All core-game changes will be available to all players, even if they don’t have HoT.
New Content, such as:
- Masteries
- Elite Specializations
- New Zones
- New Living Story
…won’t be available unless you buy HoT. This is and will always be the case with MMO expansions.
As of now, the only “Core game changes” I am aware of are the trait rework that comes before the xpac and the two mastery lines for legendaries and fractals. Both of those cater to niche hardcore parts of the playerbase, so really all we’re getting is a big balance change that adds very little in terms of gameplay hours.
I believe you are mistaken about the two mastery lines being available to core game players. Based on this quote, from this article:
The ability to train Masteries is unlocked at level 80 for all players that own Heart of Thorns.
And this quote from the legendary article:
In Heart of Thorns, you’ll have access to a special Mastery track for unlocking precursor crafting.
I am not sure of the source on the fractal mastery track, but given that mastery is a HoT feature, it seems reasonable to conclude that it won’t be added to the base game, either.
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.
