An alternative Business model

An alternative Business model

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Daroon.1736

Daroon.1736

From the pre-purchase community address under the heading business model clarification.

“We believe that to keep the game dynamic and vibrant with a constantly growing community, it should be as easy as possible for new players to get into Guild Wars 2. For Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns, we didn’t want the core game’s price to be a factor in a new player’s decision to begin playing Guild Wars 2.”

Whilst I fully agree with the above sentiment and the decision to give the core game ‘free’ with HOT for new players, IMHO the core games inclusion was a major contributing factor in setting the RRP at a point which many existing players feel is too high.

So, whilst for new players the core game’s price isn’t a factor in a new player’s decision to begin playing Guild Wars 2 for many existing players the price of the expansion is a factor in their decision to continue playing the game.

I’m sure that the vast majority would agree that having a game where all the content is available to all the players is a good thing and on that basis, I would like to suggest an alternative business model for discussion.

For potential new players there would be no change – all new copies of the core game would come with HOT at the announced price point.

To continue playing the game after HOT launches – existing players would need to pay a nominal expansion fee of around $15 or there account would be suspended.

Someone at Anet would obviously need to run the numbers on this, but at $15 – it’s likely that virtually every active player would ‘upgrade’ and many many more of those who haven’t played in a while would be prepared to pay this amount to try out the new content, than will purchase HOT at the current price point.

My guess is that, not only is this a much fairer model, but that it would generate more revenue than the current model.

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Posted by: Phy.2913

Phy.2913

“To continue playing the game after HOT launches – existing players would need to pay a nominal expansion fee of around $15 or there account would be suspended.”

Ya, no. That would be a kitten storm to end all kitten storms.

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Posted by: Stochastic.1398

Stochastic.1398

“To continue playing the game after HOT launches – existing players would need to pay a nominal expansion fee of around $15 or there account would be suspended.”

Ya, no. That would be a kitten storm to end all kitten storms.

With the release of the expansion they are effectively doing that, but making everyone pay 50 instead of 15. I have no doubt the new specializations will be OP.

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Posted by: Danikat.8537

Danikat.8537

You do realise that HoT is optional right? If someone who has an account currently doesn’t buy it they’ll be able to keep playing after it’s released, they just won’t have access to the new content.

Because that’s where your system falls apart IMO. Sure it’d be great if it’s cheaper (if I was only thinking about what benefits me I’d love it to be free) but I think, especially for a game that was advertised as buy-to-play with only optional additional purchases suddenly telling all existing players they have to pay $15 or be banned would make far more people angry than offering an optional expansion at full retail price.

Also unless you mean $15 per month and this is basically a veiled subscription thread I think you’re drastically underestimating the number of people who have already pre-purchased. It was pretty clear during the revenant beta weekend (where pre-purchases could play as a revenant) that a lot of people had gone for it, people were even making jokes in LA about how they were outnumbering all the normal players.

Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).

“Life’s a journey, not a destination.”

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Posted by: Phy.2913

Phy.2913

“To continue playing the game after HOT launches – existing players would need to pay a nominal expansion fee of around $15 or there account would be suspended.”

Ya, no. That would be a kitten storm to end all kitten storms.

With the release of the expansion they are effectively doing that, but making everyone pay 50 instead of 15. I have no doubt the new specializations will be OP.

Sort of. 15-20$ is a much better deal for vets, but tacking on the suspension of accounts that don’t pay would be taken as a slap in the face.

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Posted by: Danikat.8537

Danikat.8537

“To continue playing the game after HOT launches – existing players would need to pay a nominal expansion fee of around $15 or there account would be suspended.”

Ya, no. That would be a kitten storm to end all kitten storms.

With the release of the expansion they are effectively doing that, but making everyone pay 50 instead of 15. I have no doubt the new specializations will be OP.

The people who would be most angry would be those with multiple accounts, which seems to be most vets these days. They would be forced to pay double simply to keep access even if they never touch any HoT content on their alt account/s.

Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).

“Life’s a journey, not a destination.”

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Posted by: Daroon.1736

Daroon.1736

“To continue playing the game after HOT launches – existing players would need to pay a nominal expansion fee of around $15 or there account would be suspended.”

Ya, no. That would be a kitten storm to end all kitten storms.

The question I would have to you and all existing player who have replied is: Will you or have you already purchased the expansion? If so, my alternative model just saved you $35.

Of course changing the business model at this point would indeed cause a kitten storm, which is why it is a theoretical model for discussion.

So going forward, if an announcement was made now – that in future this model would be adopted and you would have a nominal ‘subscription’ to play every 2-3 years when a major expansion was added:

a) would you be happy?
b) do you think it would be good or bad for the long term health of the game both in terms of maintaining and attracting new players and financially for Anet?

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

No.

Bad. The bad press would cancel any supposed financial gain, as all previous adopters would be prevented from playing the game they had purchased beforehand.

No choice is seldom better than choice.

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Posted by: Linken.6345

Linken.6345

“To continue playing the game after HOT launches – existing players would need to pay a nominal expansion fee of around $15 or there account would be suspended.”

Ya, no. That would be a kitten storm to end all kitten storms.

The question I would have to you and all existing player who have replied is: Will you or have you already purchased the expansion? If so, my alternative model just saved you $35.

Of course changing the business model at this point would indeed cause a kitten storm, which is why it is a theoretical model for discussion.

So going forward, if an announcement was made now – that in future this model would be adopted and you would have a nominal ‘subscription’ to play every 2-3 years when a major expansion was added:

a) would you be happy?
b) do you think it would be good or bad for the long term health of the game both in terms of maintaining and attracting new players and financially for Anet?

Oh but it wouldent stop there living story s3e01 10 bucks please e02 oh 10 bucks, oh you want a changes to the game 10 bucks please.

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Posted by: JoshuaRAWR.4653

JoshuaRAWR.4653

The games free to play, you don’t pay a Sub fee each month like you do with FFXIV or WoW, you don’t pay for updates other than future expansions, even the living story was free if you logged in just ONCE in a 2 week window, i really can’t see how people are still complaining about this. If you think it’s too much, then don’t buy it, but considering how I’ve not had to pay a single cent for any update this game has given me for the past 3 years, the cost of the expansion is next to nothing for me. Especially when Blizzard put their expansions up for £49.99 while still requiring £9 a month.

And no, for anyone who’s going to say “I buy gems”, it doesn’t contribute as an argument because you don’t NEED to buy them.

I purchased the £80 version of the game, because i want to support Anet, but let’s do some math.

I’ve played the game since the 3 day headstart, i can’t be bothered to log in to the game to actually check how many days, it’s over 1000, but for the sake of this equation, let’s just go with 1000.

Now let’s figure out how much money each day has cost me compared to the £80 expansion pack i bought.

80 / 1000 = 0.08p per day.

Not even a penny. Not even a tenth of a penny. I can literally find more on the floor outside each day than this game has cost me.

Warrior 80 | Guardian 80 | Ranger 80 | Engineer 80 |
Thief 80 | Elementalist 80 | Mesmer 80 | Necromancer 80 | Revenant TBA

(edited by JoshuaRAWR.4653)

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

If the expansion was only $15 (season 2 was originally $20), they would just charge for the living story and treat it like DLC. In the end, it would cost the same. Pay $50 up front now for the next ~2 years of development, or pay $15 for HoT and $20 per season.

IMHO the core games inclusion was a major contributing factor in setting the RRP at a point which many existing players feel is too high.

They’ve practically been giving away the core game since the beginning of the year. The heroic edition was being advertised for HoT at a price of $10. To be clear, the heroic edition is the core game plus $20 worth of gem store items.

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Posted by: nightwulf.1986

nightwulf.1986

Let’s all just agree that this proposal is missing a lot of necessary info. GW2 is a buy to play game that subsidizes, I repeat, subsidizes itself through additional monetization. Free is just a marketing term that has a lot less meaning to the consumer than it does to the company. I can assure you that the $50 is not a value that exists in a vacuum. Unless the OP has a comprehensize model of monetization that includes gem store sales and other methods of monetizing, that “nominal expanson fee” is without sufficient context.

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Posted by: Daroon.1736

Daroon.1736

The games free to play, you don’t pay a Sub fee each month like you do with FFXIV or WoW, you don’t pay for updates other than future expansions, even the living story was free if you logged in just ONCE in a 2 week window, i really can’t see how people are still complaining about this. If you think it’s too much, then don’t buy it, but considering how I’ve not had to pay a single cent for any update this game has given me for the past 3 years, the cost of the expansion is next to nothing for me. Especially when Blizzard put their expansions up for £49.99 while still requiring £9 a month.

And no, for anyone who’s going to say “I buy gems”, it doesn’t contribute as an argument because you don’t NEED to buy them.

I purchased the £80 version of the game, because i want to support Anet, but let’s do some math.

I’ve played the game since the 3 day headstart, i can’t be bothered to log in to the game to actually check how many days, it’s over 1000, but for the sake of this equation, let’s just go with 1000.

Now let’s figure out how much money each day has cost me compared to the £80 expansion pack i bought.

80 / 1000 = 0.08p per day.

Not even a penny. Not even a tenth of a penny. I can literally find more on the floor outside each day than this game has cost me.

Did you even bother to read the original post – there was no complaint, no moaning, just an idea for an alternative business model for discussion.

To clarify: I am not suggesting that at this point in the game’s life cycle adopting this model would be viable – it wouldn’t, as has been pointed out, it would cause to much of a kitten storm. But if this had been the model from launch, if you had known that when the first major expansion was released 2-3 years down the line from launch, a nominal subscription would be required to continue playing, I will ask the same question:

Have you or will you be buying the expansion:
If Yes: Would you prefer to pay $15 rather than $50?
If No: Would you have purchased at $15?

Additionally:
If this had been the model at launch, would the fact that your subscription would expire in 2-3 years (if you didn’t pay a further nominal payment for the expansion) have stopped you from purchasing the original game?

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Posted by: Daroon.1736

Daroon.1736

Let’s all just agree that this proposal is missing a lot of necessary info. GW2 is a buy to play game that subsidizes, I repeat, subsidizes itself through additional monetization. Free is just a marketing term that has a lot less meaning to the consumer than it does to the company. I can assure you that the $50 is not a value that exists in a vacuum. Unless the OP has a comprehensize model of monetization that includes gem store sales and other methods of monetizing, that “nominal expanson fee” is without sufficient context.

No, you are of course quite correct, The proposal is missing a lot of necessary information. I should point out however that the proposal only affects players who have already purchased the core game when the expansion is released – all other monetization factors (gem store sales – new players purchasing the expansion etc) remain unchanged.

The only information that you would need therefore to make an accurate prediction of whether this model would be successful, is the projected number of existing players Anet believes will purchase the expansion at $50 compared to those that would resubscribe at $15 – if the latter amount is greater then 3x the former – the suggested model is more beneficial to all parties.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

As stated above, many vets took advantage of the $10 accounts to get alt account. Presumably a large number of these will not be getting the expansion. This would mean those $10 accounts are now $25 accounts and then $15 more with each expansion. No, bad idea as it invalidates all those purchases.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

To continue playing the game after HOT launches – existing players would need to pay a nominal expansion fee of around $15 or there account would be suspended.

Just to confirm,

You are suggesting that the game that was sold to people as pay once should go back on that and suspend access to the base game for anyone who does not choose to buy the expansion ?

I really do not see how it is even remotely possible to consider this a good idea. Someone who bought the base game and desires to continue to play it would be locked out of the account for which they have already paid unless they pay for a product they do not desire ? Should this be expanded to gems (buy $15 worth every month or get your account suspended) ?

I personally do not care how low the expansion would be priced in this hypothetical situation. If it does not interest me I will not buy it. Five dollars for a product I don’t want ? Too much. A dollar ? Fifty Cents ? A nickle ? All too much if I don’t want the product. It isn’t a matter of the price.

I will make my decision once sufficient information is available (likely some time after HoT launches) for me to be certain that the expansion interests me.

I am fairly certain that if Anet were to go back on their pay once policy for the base game there would be more than a few people contacting the appropriate authorities.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

“To continue playing the game after HOT launches – existing players would need to pay a nominal expansion fee of around $15 or there account would be suspended.”

Ya, no. That would be a kitten storm to end all kitten storms.

The question I would have to you and all existing player who have replied is: Will you or have you already purchased the expansion? If so, my alternative model just saved you $35.

Of course changing the business model at this point would indeed cause a kitten storm, which is why it is a theoretical model for discussion.

So going forward, if an announcement was made now – that in future this model would be adopted and you would have a nominal ‘subscription’ to play every 2-3 years when a major expansion was added:

a) would you be happy?
b) do you think it would be good or bad for the long term health of the game both in terms of maintaining and attracting new players and financially for Anet?

No, I wouldn’t be happy. I’m pretty sure the amount of actual work hours that went into making HoT would not be covered by $15 per person buying. So I’d be hurting the game over all by backing this plan.

Not to mention the outcry. It’s just a bad idea.

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Posted by: Crossaber.8934

Crossaber.8934

The games free to play, you don’t pay a Sub fee each month like you do with FFXIV or WoW, you don’t pay for updates other than future expansions, even the living story was free if you logged in just ONCE in a 2 week window, i really can’t see how people are still complaining about this. If you think it’s too much, then don’t buy it, but considering how I’ve not had to pay a single cent for any update this game has given me for the past 3 years, the cost of the expansion is next to nothing for me. Especially when Blizzard put their expansions up for £49.99 while still requiring £9 a month.

And no, for anyone who’s going to say “I buy gems”, it doesn’t contribute as an argument because you don’t NEED to buy them.

I purchased the £80 version of the game, because i want to support Anet, but let’s do some math.

I’ve played the game since the 3 day headstart, i can’t be bothered to log in to the game to actually check how many days, it’s over 1000, but for the sake of this equation, let’s just go with 1000.

Now let’s figure out how much money each day has cost me compared to the £80 expansion pack i bought.

80 / 1000 = 0.08p per day.

Not even a penny. Not even a tenth of a penny. I can literally find more on the floor outside each day than this game has cost me.

Did you even bother to read the original post – there was no complaint, no moaning, just an idea for an alternative business model for discussion.

To clarify: I am not suggesting that at this point in the game’s life cycle adopting this model would be viable – it wouldn’t, as has been pointed out, it would cause to much of a kitten storm. But if this had been the model from launch, if you had known that when the first major expansion was released 2-3 years down the line from launch, a nominal subscription would be required to continue playing, I will ask the same question:

Have you or will you be buying the expansion:
If Yes: Would you prefer to pay $15 rather than $50?
If No: Would you have purchased at $15?

Additionally:
If this had been the model at launch, would the fact that your subscription would expire in 2-3 years (if you didn’t pay a further nominal payment for the expansion) have stopped you from purchasing the original game?

I would pay for $50 for HoT and the all the free updates before next expansion, also keep my alt acc without HoT active.

I may or may not like the future expansions after HoT, and who knows if i am going to buy the expansion afterward. But I do like the existing GW2 that i really want to keep playing even i decided not to purchase the further expansion.

Why suspend my acc if i decided not to buy expansion.

This is totally not acceptable.

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Posted by: Serraphin Storm.2369

Serraphin Storm.2369

This would be a bad idea all around. It not a question of whether I would by the game at $15. For most gamer kitten cost is nothing. The barrier to play isn’t usually about cost. Anet would have to sell 3 time more copies then they have to equal what they have made now. Not including the That bought the $75 or $100 packages.

We are starving for content now that ls is on break and we are craving the smallest bit of new for the xpac. Lower price would result in less content moving ahead. It would kill HOT before it even got started.

Gw2 would be a shadow of what it is now. A supremely bad model.

In order to properly understand the big picture,
everyone should fear becoming mentally clouded and obsessed with one small section of truth.

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

“To continue playing the game after HOT launches – existing players would need to pay a nominal expansion fee of around $15 or there account would be suspended.”

Ya, no. That would be a kitten storm to end all kitten storms.

With the release of the expansion they are effectively doing that, but making everyone pay 50 instead of 15. I have no doubt the new specializations will be OP.

A bit cynical, but yeah in essence that’s how the expansion model works. The box price covers the cost of development.

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Posted by: E Tan.7385

E Tan.7385

A bit cynical, but yeah in essence that’s how the expansion model works. The box price covers the cost of development.

Only if Anet wasnt already having kitten tons of money with the cash shop.
And its not like in 3 years they used a lot of development resources for the very few thing they made for the game..
Just saying.

And i also VERY doubt that the expansion content worth a full AAA game content, since they sell their expansion at the “same” price, with the excuse of “thinking to the news player”
So saying they dont give a sh_t about vet.. xD

“we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
Mike Obrien
Legen – Wait for It – dary joke

(edited by E Tan.7385)

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Posted by: Danikat.8537

Danikat.8537

To continue playing the game after HOT launches – existing players would need to pay a nominal expansion fee of around $15 or there account would be suspended.

Just to confirm,

You are suggesting that the game that was sold to people as pay once should go back on that and suspend access to the base game for anyone who does not choose to buy the expansion ?

I really do not see how it is even remotely possible to consider this a good idea. Someone who bought the base game and desires to continue to play it would be locked out of the account for which they have already paid unless they pay for a product they do not desire ? Should this be expanded to gems (buy $15 worth every month or get your account suspended) ?

I personally do not care how low the expansion would be priced in this hypothetical situation. If it does not interest me I will not buy it. Five dollars for a product I don’t want ? Too much. A dollar ? Fifty Cents ? A nickle ? All too much if I don’t want the product. It isn’t a matter of the price.

I will make my decision once sufficient information is available (likely some time after HoT launches) for me to be certain that the expansion interests me.

I am fairly certain that if Anet were to go back on their pay once policy for the base game there would be more than a few people contacting the appropriate authorities.

I agree with this.

I have bought the expansion already, and I bought the Ultimate Edition so obviously the price isn’t an issue.

What is an issue is taking away my ability to make that decision myself. In this case I have decided I want the expansion, and so I bought it. But I didn’t know that until sometime after it was announced. I don’t know now if I’ll buy the next expansion, or anything else Anet will release in the future and I cannot make that decision until I know what it is.

Therefore if I had been told when considering buying the base game that I would be forced to buy any expansions they came out with or have my account banned there’s a very good chance I would decide not to buy the game at all and instead look for something that doesn’t attempt to dictate how I will spend my money.

Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).

“Life’s a journey, not a destination.”

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

This business model would effectively lock out people who have been away for long periods of time. They bought the core game as a buy once, come and go as you want, and comeback whenever you want no matter how long ago you left. But now they would find themselves having to pay $15, $30, $45, depending on how many years they were gone, just to log back into the game. This would be a betrayal of ANet’s promises to them that they could come back any time. I doubt very many would come back under those circumstances.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Daroon.1736

Daroon.1736

Lots of really interesting responses and to be honest I am fairly surprised.

It would appear that the only contentious issue is the ‘suspension’ of the core game account when expansions are released. If you take this away from the proposal, what we are left with is a discussion about pricing that ignores the main benefit that this model achieves, namely that all active players of the game have access to all the content available.

Obviously at the moment this is an emotive subject when applied to GW2 and HOT, so to try and bring some objectivity to the discussion, please allow me to alter the the context of the question slightly:

When Guild Wars 3 is announced, how would a $15 subscription model with a major expansion release every 30 months affect your decision to buy the game and why?

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Posted by: Crossaber.8934

Crossaber.8934

Lots of really interesting responses and to be honest I am fairly surprised.

It would appear that the only contentious issue is the ‘suspension’ of the core game account when expansions are released. If you take this away from the proposal, what we are left with is a discussion about pricing that ignores the main benefit that this model achieves, namely that all active players of the game have access to all the content available.

Obviously at the moment this is an emotive subject when applied to GW2 and HOT, so to try and bring some objectivity to the discussion, please allow me to alter the the context of the question slightly:

When Guild Wars 3 is announced, how would a $15 subscription model with a major expansion release every 30 months affect your decision to buy the game and why?

Interesting question.

I for myself don’t find sub based game worth it. My game play habit is buy out (even higher than average retail price is okay) and play any time, on and off, don’t ask me for more money unless it is expansion.

Gaming is entertainment, i really don’t enjoy pay a sub and have to rush contents / stack my play time in order to well worth my payment. If there is any reason besides the game discontinued, will stop me from continue playing, it is a no go for me.

For example, free mmo that require to remake of gear whenever an expansion/dlc hit, i will be never able to chase the carrot when more play time is required. I played another free mmo that end up i need to swipe my credit card in order to make up-to-date gear for the new released contents.

I prefer the business model like current GW2, no sub, no gear treadmill, buy out expansion etc. I expect GW3 remain the same or some improvements here and there.

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

When Guild Wars 3 is announced, how would a $15 subscription model with a major expansion release every 30 months affect your decision to buy the game and why?

I’d put it that way – if GW2 has been announced with that subscription model, i wouldn’t be playing the game now. And that’s even after considering that i have actually paid more than i would in such case.

…besides, i sure hope they will be releasing expansions now at intervals shorter than 30 months.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

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Posted by: Daroon.1736

Daroon.1736

When Guild Wars 3 is announced, how would a $15 subscription model with a major expansion release every 30 months affect your decision to buy the game and why?

I’d put it that way – if GW2 has been announced with that subscription model, i wouldn’t be playing the game now. And that’s even after considering that i have actually paid more than i would in such case.

Wow, that’s really interesting.

Is it the term ‘subscription’ that put’s you off, even though you would be paying less to play over the 5-6 year period (assuming you purchase the expansion and the next expansion is 2-3 years away)

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Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

The games free to play, you don’t pay a Sub fee each month like you do with FFXIV or WoW, you don’t pay for updates other than future expansions, even the living story was free if you logged in just ONCE in a 2 week window, i really can’t see how people are still complaining about this. If you think it’s too much, then don’t buy it, but considering how I’ve not had to pay a single cent for any update this game has given me for the past 3 years, the cost of the expansion is next to nothing for me. Especially when Blizzard put their expansions up for £49.99 while still requiring £9 a month.

And no, for anyone who’s going to say “I buy gems”, it doesn’t contribute as an argument because you don’t NEED to buy them.

I purchased the £80 version of the game, because i want to support Anet, but let’s do some math.

I’ve played the game since the 3 day headstart, i can’t be bothered to log in to the game to actually check how many days, it’s over 1000, but for the sake of this equation, let’s just go with 1000.

Now let’s figure out how much money each day has cost me compared to the £80 expansion pack i bought.

80 / 1000 = 0.08p per day.

Not even a penny. Not even a tenth of a penny. I can literally find more on the floor outside each day than this game has cost me.

It’s not free to play, its buy to play with most of gem store microtransactions. (they earn that way ~60-70 mil a year maybe more)
Gw2 is never going to be WoW not even in same category.
Some ppl dont give money to promises or if they think it’s not worth it.
Don’t brag about how you bought 80$ version and then QQ about those who say that won’t buy the expansion.

(edited by Ragnarox.9601)

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Posted by: dsslive.8473

dsslive.8473

Lots of really interesting responses and to be honest I am fairly surprised.

It would appear that the only contentious issue is the ‘suspension’ of the core game account when expansions are released. If you take this away from the proposal, what we are left with is a discussion about pricing that ignores the main benefit that this model achieves, namely that all active players of the game have access to all the content available.

Obviously at the moment this is an emotive subject when applied to GW2 and HOT, so to try and bring some objectivity to the discussion, please allow me to alter the the context of the question slightly:

When Guild Wars 3 is announced, how would a $15 subscription model with a major expansion release every 30 months affect your decision to buy the game and why?

If gw3 were to be subscripstion based i would not buy it. When i buy a game i dont want to keep paying to keep acces to it.

As to the earlier question:
The idea for a lower price for vets but a getting your account banned if you dont buy the expansion is a big no and the outcry would do more harm than the cheaper expansion cost would be able to offset.

Ofcourse it would be great if it was only €15, hell it’d be awesome if it was free. But games cost money to develop and i have no problem paying for that development if i like what i see. After all even if the price is that big a deal, you can always wait for the inevitable sale down the road. I have prepurchased the expansion, the deluxe edition, yes its bit pricey, but i like what the game is bringing so for me its worth the money.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

Even at your hypothetical $5/year subscription price, I would likely not purchase a game with that model. I prefer ArenaNet’s Buy-to-play model, and am happy to support the developers with this model.

For me, they deserve the money for the content and entertainment they provide.

I just don’t think your proposal (regardless how you tweak it) will find much support here. Sorry.

Still, good luck.

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

“To continue playing the game after HOT launches – existing players would need to pay a nominal expansion fee of around $15 or there account would be suspended.”

Ya, no. That would be a kitten storm to end all kitten storms.

The question I would have to you and all existing player who have replied is: Will you or have you already purchased the expansion? If so, my alternative model just saved you $35.

Let’s be honest … $35 shouldn’t concern anyone playing an MMO so it’s not a motivating factor to change the business model to me. On the other hand, if $35 x QTY of prepurchases is meaningful to Anet, then I’m happy (and I suspect everyone else who prepurchased) to do it because I like the game enough and want it to be successful.

If this game was subscription based, I wouldn’t be playing it. It’s not about the money, it’s about getting VALUE for my money. For me to get value for a subscription, I have to play frequently. For me to get value from a one-time purchase, I only have to play as long as I’m still interested.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: Crossaber.8934

Crossaber.8934

When Guild Wars 3 is announced, how would a $15 subscription model with a major expansion release every 30 months affect your decision to buy the game and why?

I’d put it that way – if GW2 has been announced with that subscription model, i wouldn’t be playing the game now. And that’s even after considering that i have actually paid more than i would in such case.

Wow, that’s really interesting.

Is it the term ‘subscription’ that put’s you off, even though you would be paying less to play over the 5-6 year period (assuming you purchase the expansion and the next expansion is 2-3 years away)

Issue is subscription. Yes.
Many players like me who enjoy the freedom to play or not after a permanent buy out model even it could be higher price at first. It felt suck if i have to keep paying to gain access right.

The price for GW2 and expansion is fine to me.

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Posted by: Danikat.8537

Danikat.8537

Lots of really interesting responses and to be honest I am fairly surprised.

It would appear that the only contentious issue is the ‘suspension’ of the core game account when expansions are released. If you take this away from the proposal, what we are left with is a discussion about pricing that ignores the main benefit that this model achieves, namely that all active players of the game have access to all the content available.

Obviously at the moment this is an emotive subject when applied to GW2 and HOT, so to try and bring some objectivity to the discussion, please allow me to alter the the context of the question slightly:

When Guild Wars 3 is announced, how would a $15 subscription model with a major expansion release every 30 months affect your decision to buy the game and why?

I would not buy it, I don’t play subscription games.

Part of that is the same reason as above – I realise the money from a subscription goes to pay for future content development but I am not comfortable with the idea of paying in advance for promise that new content will be released when I don’t know what that will be or if it’s something I would want to buy given the choice.

But I also don’t like the idea of having to keep paying simply to play a game I’ve already bought. Especially because I rarely know in advance when I’ll have time to play or how much time I have, so I may end up paying a sub for a full month and then only get to play for a couple of hours.

This has been discussed many, many times before on this forum and if you’re expecting a positive response to any kind of subscription system I think you’re in for a surprise. A lot of people are drawn to GW2 specifically because of the business model – they’ve played subscription games before, or been unable to justify playing them – and now they want something different.

Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).

“Life’s a journey, not a destination.”

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Posted by: Terrahero.9358

Terrahero.9358

“To continue playing the game after HOT launches – existing players would need to pay a nominal expansion fee of around $15 or there account would be suspended.”

Ya, no. That would be a kitten storm to end all kitten storms.

With the release of the expansion they are effectively doing that, but making everyone pay 50 instead of 15. I have no doubt the new specializations will be OP.

This is simply not true.

You pay 50euros for the HoT exclusive content, but the non’HoT exclusive content and the already existing content you can still play just fine.

And what group of players might not care to much about HoT? Well, WvW players for one. HoT has surprisingly little exclusive content if all you play is WVW. The new borderland is for everyone.
I would not get Revenant or Specializations, everything else in HoT i really do not care about at all. Frankly i find paying 55euros for just specializations and the Revenant (the only content i remotely care about) far to expensive. So i am probably not going to buy HoT as a result, because its not really worth it. Maybe, probably, when there is a discount later down the line.

I doubt i am a special snowflake, surely there are other players who are in the same boat as me. And this was just about WvW.

For pvp the new gamemode is also part of the basegame it seems, the exclusive part is one of the Heroes you summon. So what do pvp players lose out on? One hero, Guild Halls if you really care for that a lot, specializations and the Revenant. Again, one could really wonder if 55euros is worth it to these players and im sure many do.

HoT is mostly a big deal for PvE players or players who dabble in everything. If youre just in it for pvp or wvw, you have a kitten good reason to question if HoT is really worth the asking price if you arent going to enjoy or partake in the majority of the content.

(edited by Terrahero.9358)

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

Only if Anet wasnt already having kitten tons of money with the cash shop.
And its not like in 3 years they used a lot of development resources for the very few thing they made for the game..
Just saying.

I guess I could ask for evidence on both those statements, but that would simply be rhetorical. No, unless you actually work for ANet you don’t know how much money the cash shop makes or how much development resources they’ve spent or did not spend.
Just saying.

When Guild Wars 3 is announced, how would a $15 subscription model with a major expansion release every 30 months affect your decision to buy the game and why?

Certainly I’d not be willing to pay a monthly fee though.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

When Guild Wars 3 is announced, how would a $15 subscription model with a major expansion release every 30 months affect your decision to buy the game and why?

It would increase the likelihood that I would skip the game.

Anet has announced that they consider a sub fee to encourage poor game design. Adopting a sub fee would indicate that they are consciously choosing to adopt a policy of poor game design.

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Posted by: Gwalchgwn.1659

Gwalchgwn.1659

The games free to play, you don’t pay a Sub fee each month like you do with FFXIV or WoW.

People should stop comparing GW2 with those games, GW2 should be comparedwith GW1. The full prices on GW1 games were only for stand-alone games while the expansion (eye of the north) was a lot cheaper whilst still giving almost a full game.

Right now, it’s current pricing should give us almost the same as a stand alone should. This is why so many people aren’t prepurchasing yet. You don’t have enough info if the expansion is worth it’s price. Might be even better to just wait it out ’til the price drops.

Ring of Fire
GL – “The Afternoon’s Watch” [OATH]

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

“To continue playing the game after HOT launches – existing players would need to pay a nominal expansion fee of around $15 or there account would be suspended.”

Ya, no. That would be a kitten storm to end all kitten storms.

With the release of the expansion they are effectively doing that, but making everyone pay 50 instead of 15. I have no doubt the new specializations will be OP.

This is simply not true.

You pay 50euros for the HoT exclusive content, but the non’HoT exclusive content and the already existing content you can still play just fine.

And what group of players might not care to much about HoT? Well, WvW players for one. HoT has surprisingly little exclusive content if all you play is WVW. The new borderland is for everyone.
I would not get Revenant or Specializations, everything else in HoT i really do not care about at all. Frankly i find paying 55euros for just specializations and the Revenant (the only content i remotely care about) far to expensive. So i am probably not going to buy HoT as a result, because its not really worth it. Maybe, probably, when there is a discount later down the line.

I doubt i am a special snowflake, surely there are other players who are in the same boat as me. And this was just about WvW.

For pvp the new gamemode is also part of the basegame it seems, the exclusive part is one of the Heroes you summon. So what do pvp players lose out on? One hero, Guild Halls if you really care for that a lot, specializations and the Revenant. Again, one could really wonder if 55euros is worth it to these players and im sure many do.

HoT is mostly a big deal for PvE players or players who dabble in everything. If youre just in it for pvp or wvw, you have a kitten good reason to question if HoT is really worth the asking price if you arent going to enjoy or partake in the majority of the content.

And then in the future when ANet releases another EP, they’ll have HOT bundled in as well as the small exclusive stuff from that EP + the stuff from HOT may be worth what ANet asks for it.

Because that’s the plan for the future. Include the base game + previous EP’s when the next EP is released.

To answer OP’s various questions: I would stop playing and not buy HOT if they banned players who don’t get the EP. I didn’t see anywhere in the TOS that not buying an EP was grounds for account suspension.

I also would not pay any subscription fee. I go periods where I don’t really play GW2. I don’t want to have to pay for the month ahead when I don’t know if I’ll play at all.

And I’m not rolling in money. I can budget out and save up for a buy to play game slowly. Put aside some money each month and then I’ll be able to afford it. But a subscription fee? Some months are tighter than others and I wouldn’t be able to afford it. And food and shelter are more important than GW2 no matter how fun the game is.

(edited by Seera.5916)

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Because that’s the plan for the future. Include the base game + previous EP’s when the next EP is released.

Which is a great idea IMO.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

The games free to play, you don’t pay a Sub fee each month like you do with FFXIV or WoW.

People should stop comparing GW2 with those games, GW2 should be comparedwith GW1. The full prices on GW1 games were only for stand-alone games while the expansion (eye of the north) was a lot cheaper whilst still giving almost a full game.

Right now, it’s current pricing should give us almost the same as a stand alone should. This is why so many people aren’t prepurchasing yet. You don’t have enough info if the expansion is worth it’s price. Might be even better to just wait it out ’til the price drops.

Except FFXI and WoW (recent expansions) are more comparable than games from 9 years ago.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

^That were almost all instanced, and not really MMOs. The development resources are far different for mainly instanced and persistent-content games.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

The games free to play, you don’t pay a Sub fee each month like you do with FFXIV or WoW.

People should stop comparing GW2 with those games, GW2 should be comparedwith GW1. The full prices on GW1 games were only for stand-alone games while the expansion (eye of the north) was a lot cheaper whilst still giving almost a full game.

Right now, it’s current pricing should give us almost the same as a stand alone should. This is why so many people aren’t prepurchasing yet. You don’t have enough info if the expansion is worth it’s price. Might be even better to just wait it out ’til the price drops.

A lot cheaper? EotN at release was $10 less than each of the three GW campaigns was at their release. HoT is atm $10 less than GW2 was when it released. The difference in price is the same, ergo you should be saying HoT is a “lot cheaper,” also.

That said, there’s the issue of HoT content. At the time I bought EotN I knew little about what it would contain. At this moment, I know little about what HoT will contain. So, what’s the difference for me? Back then, I trusted ANet to provide value (read fun and longevity) for money. Now, I am no longer quite so trusting. Thus, I’m in wait and see mode, and while I can see people saying, “I don’t yet know if HoT is worth the price.” I question whether anyone can say, “I know it won’t be worth it.” — unless of course that statement would apply no matter what it contains.

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Posted by: Daroon.1736

Daroon.1736

Even at your hypothetical $5/year subscription price, I would likely not purchase a game with that model. I prefer ArenaNet’s Buy-to-play model, and am happy to support the developers with this model.

For me, they deserve the money for the content and entertainment they provide.

I just don’t think your proposal (regardless how you tweak it) will find much support here. Sorry.

Still, good luck.

Aside from those few who have stated they will not be purchasing the expansion – Virtually every active (PvE) player is psychologically locked into purchasing the expansion at some point, simply by virtue of the fact that they are ‘active players’ – For all those currently playing the game regularly, not having access to all the new content is not an option, but it would appear that if the word ‘subscription’ rather than ‘purchase’ is used – everyone is keen to pay $35 dollars more.

The benefits to the game in the long run however seem to be being overlooked. Can anyone make a reasonable argument that a $15 fee would not encourage many more of the huge number of inactive players, who purchased the game at launch to try the game again?

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Even at your hypothetical $5/year subscription price, I would likely not purchase a game with that model. I prefer ArenaNet’s Buy-to-play model, and am happy to support the developers with this model.

For me, they deserve the money for the content and entertainment they provide.

I just don’t think your proposal (regardless how you tweak it) will find much support here. Sorry.

Still, good luck.

Aside from those few who have stated they will not be purchasing the expansion – Virtually every active (PvE) player is psychologically locked into purchasing the expansion at some point, simply by virtue of the fact that they are ‘active players’ – For all those currently playing the game regularly, not having access to all the new content is not an option, but it would appear that if the word ‘subscription’ rather than ‘purchase’ is used – everyone is keen to pay $35 dollars more.

The benefits to the game in the long run however seem to be being overlooked. Can anyone make a reasonable argument that a $15 fee would not encourage many more of the huge number of inactive players, who purchased the game at launch to try the game again?

I am an active player.

I am not sure that I will be buying the expansion as it does not (according to current information) add much of anything of interest to me. It is possible of course that my stance will change.

As to your last sentence:

Can you make a reasonable argument for why people who don’t like the game would pay more than they have already lost on it ?

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Posted by: Daroon.1736

Daroon.1736

Even at your hypothetical $5/year subscription price, I would likely not purchase a game with that model. I prefer ArenaNet’s Buy-to-play model, and am happy to support the developers with this model.

For me, they deserve the money for the content and entertainment they provide.

I just don’t think your proposal (regardless how you tweak it) will find much support here. Sorry.

Still, good luck.

Aside from those few who have stated they will not be purchasing the expansion – Virtually every active (PvE) player is psychologically locked into purchasing the expansion at some point, simply by virtue of the fact that they are ‘active players’ – For all those currently playing the game regularly, not having access to all the new content is not an option, but it would appear that if the word ‘subscription’ rather than ‘purchase’ is used – everyone is keen to pay $35 dollars more.

The benefits to the game in the long run however seem to be being overlooked. Can anyone make a reasonable argument that a $15 fee would not encourage many more of the huge number of inactive players, who purchased the game at launch to try the game again?

I am an active player.

I am not sure that I will be buying the expansion as it does not (according to current information) add much of anything of interest to me. It is possible of course that my stance will change.

Thank you for for a very straight answer – So would a nominal $15 price point have persuaded you to ‘re sub’?

In answer to your question – I think that many more of them would be prepared to pay $15 rather than $50.

The main idea of this model would be to retain as many active players as possible – encourage many more inactive players to return and lastly (something Anet has already dealt with) encourage new players by proving them with the base game.

(edited by Daroon.1736)

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

Even at your hypothetical $5/year subscription price, I would likely not purchase a game with that model. I prefer ArenaNet’s Buy-to-play model, and am happy to support the developers with this model.

For me, they deserve the money for the content and entertainment they provide.

I just don’t think your proposal (regardless how you tweak it) will find much support here. Sorry.

Still, good luck.

Aside from those few who have stated they will not be purchasing the expansion – Virtually every active (PvE) player is psychologically locked into purchasing the expansion at some point, simply by virtue of the fact that they are ‘active players’ – For all those currently playing the game regularly, not having access to all the new content is not an option, but it would appear that if the word ‘subscription’ rather than ‘purchase’ is used – everyone is keen to pay $35 dollars more.

The benefits to the game in the long run however seem to be being overlooked. Can anyone make a reasonable argument that a $15 fee would not encourage many more of the huge number of inactive players, who purchased the game at launch to try the game again?

‘Virtually every’? I suppose all those ‘I am not purchasing the expansion’ posts are just posturing. It is true there is a lot of that found on the forums.

Regardless, I doubt ArenaNet will change their model after 10 years of relative success.

Good luck.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Even at your hypothetical $5/year subscription price, I would likely not purchase a game with that model. I prefer ArenaNet’s Buy-to-play model, and am happy to support the developers with this model.

For me, they deserve the money for the content and entertainment they provide.

I just don’t think your proposal (regardless how you tweak it) will find much support here. Sorry.

Still, good luck.

Aside from those few who have stated they will not be purchasing the expansion – Virtually every active (PvE) player is psychologically locked into purchasing the expansion at some point, simply by virtue of the fact that they are ‘active players’ – For all those currently playing the game regularly, not having access to all the new content is not an option, but it would appear that if the word ‘subscription’ rather than ‘purchase’ is used – everyone is keen to pay $35 dollars more.

The benefits to the game in the long run however seem to be being overlooked. Can anyone make a reasonable argument that a $15 fee would not encourage many more of the huge number of inactive players, who purchased the game at launch to try the game again?

I am an active player.

I am not sure that I will be buying the expansion as it does not (according to current information) add much of anything of interest to me. It is possible of course that my stance will change.

Thank you for for a very straight answer – So would a nominal $15 price point have persuaded you to ‘re sub’?

If I had left the game (I think that is what you mean by re-sub), asking me to pay more for a product that I was already not using would not bring me back. It wouldn’t matter how low the price point if I don’t want the product. Conversely, if the announced features of the expansion addressed my handful of concerns about the game I wouldn’t blink at spending hundreds of dollars on it.

If I had left the game because I was taking a break (as I have more than once over the last three years) requiring me to pay $15 to regain access to something that was sold to me as pay once would probably result in a report to my state’s department of weights and measures.

In answer to your question – I think that many more of them would be prepared to pay $15 rather than $50.

Why would they pay anything for a product that they don’t want to use ?

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

Can anyone make a reasonable argument that a $15 fee would not encourage many more of the huge number of inactive players, who purchased the game at launch to try the game again?

It’s quite opposite – locking out players who didn’t pay would severely increase the chances those players would not return.
Besides, i’m pretty sure we’ll get a 50% sale within a year of HoT release – some players will likely wait for that. Lock them out, and they will just leave.

Actions, not words.
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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Charging us to play the vanilla GW2 is going back on the business model of “pay once, play free” and will lose them more good will than they will gain by a price drop. (Worse, I doubt that US$15 is realistic, given the high cost of publishing an expac and the expectations of ANet’s publisher, NCSOFT, in terms of their fiscal needs.)

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

The benefits to the game in the long run however seem to be being overlooked. Can anyone make a reasonable argument that a $15 fee would not encourage many more of the huge number of inactive players, who purchased the game at launch to try the game again?

Yes. I don’t think if someone has already decided the game wasn’t for them, that they would be willing to drop another $15 to try it. In addition, it sounds like your idea is just justifying a lower price to do a cash grab on non-committed players.

(edited by Obtena.7952)