Guild Wars 2

WARNING: Lots of speculation and player assumption could be below. Nothing should be taken as fact, gospel, or oral supplement. Consult a physician if reading this post persists longer than 4 hours.

Specifically I’m wondering what’s the point on the Berserker and Daredevil, considering that right now they sound like they’re just modified versions of the meta-build for damage output for those classes. Sure, we haven’t even seen them in effect yet, but I was hoping to see either of those very melee-oriented combat classes get a role as support, perhaps some kind of Battle Medic (which could go Thief or Warrior, imo) but instead we’re getting more 120-range slugfest builds it seems…

The “Dragonhunter”: Holy Crap, it’s a Holy Ranger with a Wholly-Ridiculous Name (as has been pointed out repeatedly, I’m sure). None of the trap mechanics seem that useful considering the output of any of the Symbols inherent to the guardian class (unless you want to roll Condi guard, in which case you’re really only going to affect the output of burn damage sources which is the Condi guard’s bread and butter; or Support guard which… why would you replace the utility of shouts for the one support trap? Everyone in an area affected by the instant cast shout skill and possibly bonus effects from traits vs only people in a specific region get affected by a trap, assuming that it gets placed correctly and then an enemy triggers it nearby players who need the benefit). There’s also the issue of making the virtues far less useful as “panic-buttons” for bad situations—I’m okay with this. I’d prefer to see players having to consider and carefully use skills to best effect than to see a stack of players all spamming whatever skill is off cooldown next… After all, I’m playing GW2 now and not WoW. Honestly, the only reason I’d play this spec is so my guardian has an option besides Scepter for ranged damage (Yes, there’s a Staff, but I want a proper full-range DPS weapon, not a lootstick) but there’s not enough going on with this to make me want to lock three trait choices in just to have a new weapon

The Reaper: Yet another “elite” spec that just smacks of modifying an existing meta playstyle, the “Terrormancer”. So, now we get a GS (because god knows that’s what the class was lacking—swinging a giant 2-handed sword around my body as a frail asuran necromancer. Makes about as much sense as the charr allowing any magical classes in their ranks, given the past history with the Shaman caste…), which by most accounts is slow and underpowered as an option, and some shouts that seem to have seriously underwhelmed people with what they can do. I haven’t spent much personal time on the class because it’s contradictory to what my Necro playstyle is, and I certainly don’t see any perks to swapping into the Reaper anytime soon. Perhaps it appeals to the players of Terrormancer builds, but even if it does, who is going to want to drop a third of their build just to pick up the few options that the Reaper brings?

Nothing to comment on about the Tempest, Chronomancer, or Herald elites (aside from the name Tempest—that says some kind of hybrid WIND/WATER DPS to me, not some sort of “stay attuned to buff up one skill for one use” specialization… but hey, what do I know. I run a lightning hammer build and spend most of my time in Water attunement, so I’m already not utilizing the profession mechanic like I’m supposed to), mostly due to not having enough experience with Tempest/Chrono to comment, and Revenant is already feeling like the Death Knight of this game so why not slap another “I can do anything” functionality onto the class.

tl;dr: I guess the point I’m getting at here is that I thought elite specializations were supposed to shake up how we looked at and played certain professions in the game. I was expecting “role reversal”, seeing normally combat oriented professions shuffling off to the sidelines to bring in unexpected control and support options, while watching the typical back rank combatants stepping forward in new ways. All I’m seeing so far is rehashes of the same builds and mechanics that people already play.

It’s a matter of opinion. I think that the concept of Chronomancer and Reaper was awesome when I tried them during the first BWE (even if the Reaper needed a little bit more work and they absolutely did it). Bezerker and Daredevil look awesome too and I can’t wait to try them at the next BWE.

DH and Tempest don’t really excite me much even if Guardian is my main. But like I said, it’s more of a personnal opinion thing.

To answer the question: Nope.

Except Dargonhurrdurr. That thing needs to head back to the drawing board.

Side note, taking Fresh Air with Tempest is actually a really good idea. Definitely an Air attunement boost.

But eh, it’s all opinion. If they fit your playstyle, yeah, you might get excited. If they fill a niche you don’t care for, then yeah, you’ll be “meh” about it.

Except for Dargonhurrdurr. Srsly, send Braham home to learn a real Guardian elite.

Nope. I love everything they’ve shown me.

Especially Reaper.

Thaddeus.4891:

It’s a matter of opinion. I think that the concept of Chronomancer and Reaper was awesome when I tried them during the first BWE (even if the Reaper needed a little bit more work and they absolutely did it). Bezerker and Daredevil look awesome too and I can’t wait to try them at the next BWE.

DH and Tempest don’t really excite me much even if Guardian is my main. But like I said, it’s more of a personnal opinion thing.

Very true, this whole post was just opinion based. I’m curious though if anyone else feels less than impressed by the Elite specs thus far though? If the whole point of the elite specs was to provide new ways to play a profession and offering new roles in party dynamics, then I feel they’ve missed the mark

bostrees.5306:

Specifically I’m wondering what’s the point on the Berserker and Daredevil, considering that right now they sound like they’re just modified versions of the meta-build for damage output for those classes. Sure, we haven’t even seen them in effect yet, but I was hoping to see either of those very melee-oriented combat classes get a role as support, perhaps some kind of Battle Medic (which could go Thief or Warrior, imo) but instead we’re getting more 120-range slugfest builds it seems…

The current “meta build” for Thief is single-target damage with heavy stealth use, engaging and disengaging as needed. Daredevil is about area effect damage without any stealth and being able to deal sustained damage in melee over time with extra dodging options. The only similarity between the current “meta build” and Daredevil is that they both hit things in melee.

So far I’ve been a bit bored with the Tempest, and didn’t try out the Chronomancer since I don’t know mesmer that well, but had a ton of fun with the Reaper and Dragonhunter. Both of them feel different enough from the base class to be new and exciting, while still having the same general feel. Herald doesn’t interest me that much, but Berserker and Daredevil look like tons of fun.

So far, I like all the elites except Tempest and Herald.

Rauderi.8706:

To answer the question: Nope.

Except Dargonhurrdurr. That thing needs to head back to the drawing board.

Side note, taking Fresh Air with Tempest is actually a really good idea. Definitely an Air attunement boost.

But eh, it’s all opinion. If they fit your playstyle, yeah, you might get excited. If they fill a niche you don’t care for, then yeah, you’ll be “meh” about it.

Except for Dargonhurrdurr. Srsly, send Braham home to learn a real Guardian elite.

Well I can see Fresh Air being useful for Tempest… My ele hasn’t been the same since specializations took away some aspects of my build (I had been 2/5/2/2/3 in the old system—not a meta LH build but I offset a few things for having a more constant uptime on the hammer itself) so I honestly haven’t given it much consideration recently.

Nope. I love everything they’ve shown me.

Especially Reaper.

Glad to see that not everyone is down on the ESpecs so far. Could any of you explain the aspects you enjoy about them, or how you feel they augment/improve the core profession they are for? I’m trying to keep an open mind on them, especially for how untested they really are at this point, and considering that they’re being touted as a system for expansion later in the game, so we aren’t going to be stuck with only these options

Xiahou Mao.9701:

bostrees.5306:

Specifically I’m wondering what’s the point on the Berserker and Daredevil, considering that right now they sound like they’re just modified versions of the meta-build for damage output for those classes. Sure, we haven’t even seen them in effect yet, but I was hoping to see either of those very melee-oriented combat classes get a role as support, perhaps some kind of Battle Medic (which could go Thief or Warrior, imo) but instead we’re getting more 120-range slugfest builds it seems…

The current “meta build” for Thief is single-target damage with heavy stealth use, engaging and disengaging as needed. Daredevil is about area effect damage without any stealth and being able to deal sustained damage in melee over time with extra dodging options. The only similarity between the current “meta build” and Daredevil is that they both hit things in melee.

Fair enough. I don’t get on my thief much, and mine is built more about augmented stealth and picking up downed players. They’re too fragile for my skills with playing them, so I spend most of my time trying to avoid combat with the class :P

I’m fine with all of them. Most of the people complaining sound like they wanted new classes.

They are just adding onto the current classes which they did 100% correct. Each class has new skills, and new weapons, and new traits. That was the goal of this, and that they did. If someone doesn’t like it owell honestly. They still added to the class.

In general, I’m enjoying these new options for my characters. Some suit the way I play them, some don’t. And that’s the point of the Elites – to give us more options, not to make our characters super powerful.

Sure, they need some tweaking to get them balanced well, but that’s half the point of the beta weekends.

The only one I find ‘underwhelming’ so far is the Dragonhunter. It just feels too much like they decided to give the Guardian some Ranger abilities, and I played the new abilities very much like I do my Ranger. But I did find it a useful hybrid of abilities, I may wind up keeping the bow on my Guardian.

Rauderi.8706:

To answer the question: Nope.

Except Dargonhurrdurr. That thing needs to head back to the drawing board.

Except for Dargonhurrdurr. Srsly, send Braham home to learn a real Guardian elite.

Agreed.

Okay, this deserves less snark than my previous. Seems you’re really trying to reconcile some of the hype.

Revenant/Herald: Considering that I had a character name planned with this exact word in it, I think I’m cool with it. I wanted my Rev to be a call to something greater. That greater happens to be Glint, but that’s okay.
B+

Warrior/Berserker: An expected name, though I wasn’t expecting more torch/condi leanings. Still, I’m excited about it, even if my expectation and the concept don’t quite align.
B

Guardian/Dragonhunter: I’m so underwhelmed, they should be able to see the end of it in Australia somewhere. It’s more than 46 pages worth of “anything but dargonhurrdurr” as a name. The bow and traps don’t sync well, and the Virtues are all over the place. It’s very muddled.
F; see me after class.

Thief/Daredevil: A unique name and interesting take on “keep thief alive by not dying.” The effects on evade add a skill component to their gameplay. I know lots were hoping for stealthy-sniper-rifle, but Daredevil actually impresses.
A

Mesmer/Chronomancer: An extension of glamour and manipulations, Chronomancer is sort of expected, though Mesmer pulls it off an in interesting way. I was a little ‘wah’ about the long cooldown on F5 during the beta, but the wells felt good, and shield skills worked out for party support. I’m looking forward to this one.
A

Necromancer/Reaper: Another ‘expected’ one, but I actually had fun with it. Maybe not everyone played this on a male Charr, but man, those shouts are more visceral with that particular voice actor. And having some actual area effect adds some depth to Necro play. Eager for this one as well.
A

Elementalist/Tempest. A little out of left field, I can see where the name came from. Add on that Fresh Air gives synergy to Air and Tempest, and it fits a little better. Horn is an odd choice, but the skills were interesting. The shouts were …kinda dumb as things to call out in combat. Overall, certainly willing to use this spec.
B

Well, I am not underwhelmed by the elite spec. In fact, I’m pretty amazed on how well they end up with this elite spec system. They are giving us a different traitline that change the gameplay of a profession while still staying in the boundaries of this specific profession.

In fact, I’m more amazed on how they did it than the elite spec themselve. This system is pretty flexible and easy to bend around each profession. The only thing that you have to keep in check is the profession thematic.

For example, the Warrior. They gave to the warrior with the berserker a new way to use their burst skill. (Though I’d have prefer that they locked the basic burst skills for the berserker but… whatever). It’s awesome to see that there is nothing “new”, just the taste, the way it work is different and grant a whole new gameplay.

I’ll badmouth a bit, but I think that ATM there is 1 specialization that stray out of the right path of this “elite spec system”. For me, It feel like they fail (not that it’s not viable and/or awesome but it give “new things”. On the other hand, seeing that they are able to give new things to a profession mean that there is hope for other professions). The mesmer have been given “new things” to support the chronomancer’s thematic.

So yeah, If I had to critic something it would be that fact. They gave “new things” to the mesmer while they should have been able to design an elite spec without these addition. (Though It probably wouldn’t have been the pleasing chronomancer’s spec…)

Seems a clear example of expectations not meeting reality. Specialisations allow you to fine tune how your character plays. The Elite specialisations add changes to mechanics and extra skills to that. Seems perfectly in line with what they’re trrying to accomplish.

I’m not sure why you’d want a medic specialisation, when most professions have access to supportive traits and rez traits. Couple those with the right gear, and you got your medic.

I would wager a lot of people would be rather upset with an Elite specialisation that lets you do something you already could, effortlessly. It would add nothing.

So far the only class that for me that is an improvement/impressive is the Chronomancer. The rest are meh, seeing as I don’t play Mesmer I’m still not convinced why I should buy the xpac. We’ll see what the Druid and Forge bring to the table.

So in essence, this thread is just saying:

- I don’t know anything about most of the new specs.
- I don’t agree with the lore.
- Dragonhunter is bad (Agree).
- I had ridiculous expectations.

Not very productive.

I always wonder how many people who make these threads have actually been paying attention to the changes constantly being made on the “____ Changes for Next BWE” threads. Feedback is still constantly being taken into consideration with changes being made, even after the initial changelog. Dragonhunter, for example, has had a ton of changes that will be made, including the much-requested velocity increase.

bostrees.5306:

WARNING: Lots of speculation and player assumption could be below. Nothing should be taken as fact, gospel, or oral supplement. Consult a physician if reading this post persists longer than 4 hours.

Specifically I’m wondering what’s the point on the Berserker and Daredevil, considering that right now they sound like they’re just modified versions of the meta-build for damage output for those classes. Sure, we haven’t even seen them in effect yet, but I was hoping to see either of those very melee-oriented combat classes get a role as support, perhaps some kind of Battle Medic (which could go Thief or Warrior, imo) but instead we’re getting more 120-range slugfest builds it seems…

That second paragraph specifically is a totally valid concern. Those two classes along with making the guardian spec a ranger without a pet and wearing heavy armor to boot is super lazy design.

Hmm, underwhelmed is for me personally now not exactly the right word.. but so far I’’m a bit kind of disappointed, because it is clearly an obviously fact, that due to multiple different developers working on the Elite specializations, all of them have received so far total different QUALITY LEVEL, where the Classes that are made by Robert Gee so far are all superb, very much of what I would expect from a specialization that is tied to its Main profession by its theme, by its designs, by its looks and its gameplay in the end.

Chronomancer, Reaper, Berserker are all great in my opinion…
Tempest, Dragonjunker and Daredevil are that not.

Mainly because I have a clear vsion about how the Elite Specializations should be name, to fit to the design ,the gameplay, the looks and so on of their Main Professions.
names are for me very important, they play a great part in immersion, especially if any of these Elite Specialization Names should find their ways into also the Voice Acting (god please NO, beware us of this, especially with Daredevil, Dragonjunker and Tempest!!)

Chronomancer is awesome, because it delivers exactly, what you would expect from a professional Illusionist, that is so powerful, that his illusions can bend timespace to move between Present and Past with a perfect Weapon Choice that can represent best a Clock Design as a Symbol of Time Manipulation

Reaper is awesome, because its new Weapon and Skills around it gave the Class something, which it massively lacked alot – Mobility and a cleaving Melee Combat Weapon that is better for Control, than Dagger and fightign agaisnt more, than just 1 or 2 enemies at once.

Berserker is awesome, because it gives them the best weapon that was possible, that suits to the theme of WAR, that symbolizes by its element war and destruction the most, while still giving us with improved bursts and physicals the gameplay of what you would expect from a Berserker, that they are a devastating force that lets no grass grow anymore there where they were before. The design shows also perfectly, that not every bersker in a MMORPg must always come together with a weapon like a Great Axes to be a credible Berserker while stil lallowing you to go on rampage with the already existign weapons like a classical Berserker with either a Greatsword or a Hammer. Never seen before such a universally good designed Berserker in any other MMORPg before

The other Elite Specs that have been revealed either always fail to deliver the correct theme or gameplay of what you would expect from, or try to put to many different themes into one gameplay, see Dragonjunker where the result is a wannabe 4 in 1 Paragon/Witchhunter/Big Game Hunter/Trapper Mixture..in short TMI – TOO MUCH INPUT, sometimes is simply lesser more. Especialyl together with a fitting Name, that actually fits also to the origin of the Guardian gameplay and doesn’t force upon all of our throats the fate of a Story NPC as a silly reason for what this spec got this chidish name, that is no profession, but just rsather a title for everybody that is not special at all

The Tempest.. here its again a name issue, for me personally in regard of my mother langue that causes it, and because of the name fitting absolutely not to the gameplay mechanic that the Spec will give us… under the knowleddge, that the main class mechanic change would be Overchargeable Attunements, I’d call the Spec just “Bender” (German: Gewaltenbändiger) as in someone, who tames Natural Forces through the Warhorn, see Aang and the Last Air Bender.
I would have hoped for it, that the spec would be more like that, getting more controls over the elements in new ways and not just only overcharging the attunement, so here I was underwhelmed to be honest.

In regard of the Dragonjunker, I was just only from begin to now plain simpyl shocked!!
And I will never forget this scandalous insulting nonsense about “High Concept”, which is just plain and even more simply an excuse for having a reason to link the name to some upcoming pre planned new game lore and nothing else – see Braham and the obvious death of Eir that we will see in the distant near future to give Braham a reason to become with Eirs bow as her legacy a Dragonjunker …. we can read Anet here like a book.

And Daredevil now.. aside from its name, that doesn’t really fit for a martial artist, its disappointing for me, because its basicalyl only Acrobatics 2.0, instead of giving the class a well deserved gameplay changer that adds some new gameplay elements to the class that would be unique to the traitline of the elite spec that are only to be found on it, to make sure, those effects are unique for this elite spec.
instead Anet nerfs Acrobatis to death, and returns then later practically acrobats and effects that should have been under acrobatics for the last 3 years, ding not even any changes on steal or inititive..just a plain upgrade of acrobatics that in fact is just a recycling ofg it, to make the old Acrobatics as complementary traitline again more viable after anet nerfed it first to the ground …

bostrees.5306:

Glad to see that not everyone is down on the ESpecs so far. Could any of you explain the aspects you enjoy about them, or how you feel they augment/improve the core profession they are for? I’m trying to keep an open mind on them, especially for how untested they really are at this point, and considering that they’re being touted as a system for expansion later in the game, so we aren’t going to be stuck with only these options

Heh…well, since you asked

I played with the Chronomancer and the Reaper primarily in BWE1. Chronomancer mainly felt like the Mesmer on jazz – the shield was amazingly good, and with the various extra shatter traits my Scepter build was crapping clones literally faster than I could shatter them. It did not, however, really feel like a new profession, so much as a Man Mode version of the base Mesmer. A really awesome such version, but I can see your point.

The Reaper, on the other hand, felt heavy and powerful, like a bulldozer on feet. Traditional Power necromancers with their daggers are generally reliant on a flurry of quick attacks and mass AA spam – you stand next to the enemy and whack them a whole buncha times with your AA chain, trying your best to ignore Dagger 2 and 3, tossing Focus 4 on cooldown and popping Focus 5 whenever the enemy dares to show you a boon. You have no control whatsoever, and your positioning tends to consist of trying not to stand in the fire. The Reaper, though?

All five Reaper sword skills have strategic use – you’re trying to save Gravedigger for that sub-50% megawhallop, you’ve got to employ Nightfall carefully as your only defensive skill, and even simply landing the autoattack requires more thought, maneuvering and planning than the class has ever really dealt with before. The visceral reward for that work is amazing – even if the numbers weren’t really there in BWE1, the weight of the Reaper’s attacks is intense.

And Reaper’s Shroud really did feel like unleashing your inner monster on the enemy. That enormous scythe, with a significantly faster attack speed than the sword, the absolutely colossal damage spikes you could get off RS 5…it made Shroud awesome again. It made Shroud something to look forward to using, not something you dipped into to absorb a hit, or just long enough to hit Tainted Shackles > Life Transfer.

Yeah, the shouts were disappointing. I mostly stuck to standard Necromancer utils, though in BWE2 I’m definitely going to be trying Rise! now that it’s potentially a powerful defensive skill as well as just awesome to do. The traits were well-done though, synergizing well with the rest of the Necromancer and offering several discrete build choices.

On the whole, it felt a little bit like the God of War version of the Necromancer. Brutal, barbaric, and powerful in a way the dagger-centric Power Necromancer never was. I want to play it again desperately and am already assembling gear and planning my new look for Ryn when HoT goes live. There’s absolutely no question in my mind that she’s going Reaper, and I fail to care if Reaper’s not super-hyper-ultra-optimal for PvE max Berserker DPS, because it’s just so kitten satisfying to run.

And really, that’s all anyone can ask of their elite spec, eh?

Under following points I’d be really happy now instead, if they get done until release of the expansion or somewhen soon after release date:

1) Rename the Berserker-Prefix of Equipment to Barbaric/Brutal/Slayer or Devastator
2) Rename the Daredevil to Skirmisher
3) Rename the Dragonjunker to either Seeker or Inquisitor and rename all the Trait Names about Hunter/Big Game Hunter and finalyl redesign the Elite Skill to be not siuch a huge super ugry illusionary dragon head that makes absolutely no sense.
In fact, just make this class congruent with the Main Profession style and design
4) Rename the Tempest to Bender or Summoner and change the Main Mechanic exchange to something different, that feels a bit more sprecial and gameplay more changing
5) Rename either the Reaper Title or the Reaper specialization to Dervish

Some of these renames would be simply good to prevent missunderstandings and confusions about these termsn and it would look just silly to run around as Reaper with a Reaper title that would make the game look just more consistent..

in general I’d find it bett,er if simpyl all upgrade prefixes get renamed to have no pression terms anymiore as words, but only Adverb Words, like Brutal and so on

bostrees.5306:

Thaddeus.4891:

It’s a matter of opinion. I think that the concept of Chronomancer and Reaper was awesome when I tried them during the first BWE (even if the Reaper needed a little bit more work and they absolutely did it). Bezerker and Daredevil look awesome too and I can’t wait to try them at the next BWE.

DH and Tempest don’t really excite me much even if Guardian is my main. But like I said, it’s more of a personnal opinion thing.

Very true, this whole post was just opinion based. I’m curious though if anyone else feels less than impressed by the Elite specs thus far though? If the whole point of the elite specs was to provide new ways to play a profession and offering new roles in party dynamics, then I feel they’ve missed the mark

I agree with you about daredevil and bezerker, and I would also lump tempest in the same bracket in fact at the head of it given tempest will be underpowered but dd and bez will still be powerful. DH expands guardian in good ways with bow but dropped the ball with traps and the whole stupid dragonhunter meme. Chronomancer and reaper are the only elites IMHO that actually fully expand their classes in interesting and synergistic ways.

Orpheal.8263:

Under following points I’d be really happy now instead, if they get done until release of the expansion or somewhen soon after release date:

1) Rename the Berserker-Prefix of Equipment to Barbaric/Brutal/Slayer or Devastator
2) Rename the Daredevil to Skirmisher
3) Rename the Dragonjunker to either Seeker or Inquisitor and rename all the Trait Names about Hunter/Big Game Hunter and finalyl redesign the Elite Skill to be not siuch a huge super ugry illusionary dragon head that makes absolutely no sense.
In fact, just make this class congruent with the Main Profession style and design
4) Rename the Tempest to Bender or Summoner and change the Main Mechanic exchange to something different, that feels a bit more sprecial and gameplay more changing
5) Rename either the Reaper Title or the Reaper specialization to Dervish

Some of these renames would be simply good to prevent missunderstandings and confusions about these termsn and it would look just silly to run around as Reaper with a Reaper title that would make the game look just more consistent..

in general I’d find it bett,er if simpyl all upgrade prefixes get renamed to have no pression terms anymiore as words, but only Adverb Words, like Brutal and so on

Do not rename Reaper to Dervish, one day we might be lucky enough to see the real dervish introduced. Necro & Dervish are also 2 very different things even with specialization it would be an insult to the Dervish to make it a sub class of a Necro.

tl;dr Nope, I’m not underwhelmed so far (although, I thought Necro GS play was dull, compared to the other elites). I reserve judgment until I actually play the specialization long enough to make some informed choices about builds.

Wait, you think Terrormancer is still meta? Have you not played GW2 since 2013?

Even then, terrormancer fell out of favor nearly 8 months ago when shoutbow AoE cleanse spam became meta, and since then power, cele, and even minion necro have usurped condi necro completely.

Given our limited amount of experience with these, especially the ones not even tested or released, it’s hard to be ‘underwhelmed’ at this point.

But, as far as initial impressions, I’m not overly excited either.

Let’s also keep in mind that this isn’t just a single spec, but a redesign of the trait system to allow Anet to add even more future elite specs. That’s a huge deal.

This isn’t some one time thing we’ll never see advancement on. It’s a fundamental change to the game as a whole.

nope. not all classes in the game appeal to me so i wouldnt expect all elite specs to either and at the moment i am quite liking chronomancer, berserker and daredevil so thats a 50% approval with two more still to come.

particularly with the daredevil i have some build ideas i am really eager to test out

bostrees.5306:

The Reaper: Yet another “elite” spec that just smacks of modifying an existing meta playstyle, the “Terrormancer”. So, now we get a GS (because god knows that’s what the class was lacking—swinging a giant 2-handed sword around my body as a frail asuran necromancer. Makes about as much sense as the charr allowing any magical classes in their ranks, given the past history with the Shaman caste…), which by most accounts is slow and underpowered as an option, and some shouts that seem to have seriously underwhelmed people with what they can do. I haven’t spent much personal time on the class because it’s contradictory to what my Necro playstyle is, and I certainly don’t see any perks to swapping into the Reaper anytime soon. Perhaps it appeals to the players of Terrormancer builds, but even if it does, who is going to want to drop a third of their build just to pick up the few options that the Reaper brings?

Not at all. I am very hyped instead.
Reaper reveal was like Shenmue 3 announce at E3 this year.
I wished for necro-Gs since release and Arena delivered.
Even more, they made reaper really heavy multitarget direct damage spec.
This is just what necromancer lacked for three years.

I was underwhelmed, but Berserker and Daredevil have won me back….not a huge fan of the Daredevil name since it’s basically a Monk, but I am def running one of those two when the game comes out.

tl;dr: I guess the point I’m getting at here is that I thought elite specializations were supposed to shake up how we looked at and played certain professions in the game. I was expecting “role reversal”, seeing normally combat oriented professions shuffling off to the sidelines to bring in unexpected control and support options, while watching the typical back rank combatants stepping forward in new ways. All I’m seeing so far is rehashes of the same builds and mechanics that people already play.

Isn’t Dragonhunter bringing a brand new way to play guardian ? But many people are complaining it doesn’t fit their current builds or playstyles. It seems to me that it is the most different elite compared to the core profession… So yes, it might be harder to synergize it well with existing mechanics. Too many complaints- not enough suggestions to improve this spec maybe.

And stop complaining about the name, it is not so bad and you won’t see it anywhere, you’ll still be a guardian with same logo. Really don’t understand why people are so mad about simple names…

Let’s see, ehm, no not really.
I haven’t seen any mmo up to date release this many changes to the classes + a new class.
So i’m really excited for it.

I will tell you when they reveal enginner’s elite spec

Chronomancer – Great
Dragonhunter – mediocre
Reaper – Good
Berserker -Best sofar
Tempest – Lackluster
Daredevil – Good
Herald – Great

Ravezaar.4951:

Chronomancer – Great
Dragonhunter – mediocre
Reaper – Good
Berserker -Best sofar
Tempest – Lackluster
Daredevil – Good
Herald – Great

Going by theme and execution for me it’s:

Chronomancer – Great
Dragonhunter – OK
Reaper – Great
Berserk – meh
Tempest – OK
Daredevil – Great
Herald- Good

For me its this way:

Chronomancer = Perfect
Berserker = Very Good, Rename the same called Gear Prefix to Barbaric/Brutal = Perfect
Reaper = Good, Rename the same called Title = Very Good
Tempest = Junk, Rename to Bender/Summoner = Good, + Mechanic Change = Very Good
Herald = Very Good, Rename Revenant to Herald and call Heralds instead Prophets = Perfect
Daredevil = Good, Rename it to Skirmisher = Very Good + Fix Acrobatics and give Skrimisher a Gameplay Changer for Steal and a 50/50 Mix of Counterattacks and Evasion = Perfect

Druid = Currently I’d say from the first look Good, depends on what the Pet Gameplay and Weapon Skills will be like
Forge = Currently I’d say from the first look Very Good, depends again on the Weapon Skills and the Main Mechanic Changes, but with Rename to Artificer I think I’d give it right away a Perfect

@ Random: Just people with no creativity would say that and die hard Dervish Fans, which still believe in it, that they will ever see them returning as an own playable Profession… if you don’t see the similarities between Dervish and Necromancer, then I must say that you are BLIND. Very blind.

1) Necromancers wield by design whenever they get to use their special mechanic a SCYTHE, the old dervishs iconic Weapon.
2) Said Necromancer Mechanic is useable to let the Class shapeshift, what was exactly the gameplay element of the Dervish
3) Dervishs used a power called Mysticism, Mysticism is nothing else, than Occultism, using supernatural unknown powers, which come from performing some occult rituals, like Sacrifice Rituals, in GW1 it was sacrificing Boons, a mechanic that fits feel for the Necromancer to sacrifice his boons that he receives to perform Mystic Powers
If Dervish does’t return as a Thief Specialization ,then is Necromancer the only most fittign alternative
5) Chill – Chilling Victory, which is actually a Skill, that returns now under the Necromancer Elite Specialization was one of the most iconic Dervish Skills in GW1 and dealt Cold Damage there, what is pretty much what woudl be Chill now for GW2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occult#Occultism
The Gameplay of the old Dervish is what under this wiki link would be called Divination – being inspired by gods…, just that it got called for GW Mysticism what can be practically the same, using rituals to get inspired by the gods what turned out for GW1 that was all about humans there to shapeshift into Divine Avatars.

But due to the gods beign a humans only thing, I can easily think of the universal racial Dervish using that ritual of mysticism not now to get inspired by Gods, but instead gettign inspired by Death, turning into the Avatar of Death, a Reaper of Grenth, making the term reaper just a lore bonded skill name instead of turning it into the Elite Profession Name, while one other term, the Dervish would return to its old nostalgia as necromancer elite specilization, just only with the difference, that he swings his scythe only when using the special mechanic of the class, while swinging in the normal form a more modern and fittign weapon with the greatsword instead.

The only thing that would Anet have to look at is adding into the gameplay of the elite spec the mechanic, that the class sacrifices somehow the boons that you receive when turning into the avatar form to become able to do something special that is better, so more boons you sacrificed at the moment of changing into the avatar form.

Hello,

so far the only spec i dislike is, unfortunately, Guardian. I dont mind the name but i do mind the very very weak concept behind it when compared to other specs ive seen so far.

At start i even was hoping for a spec around the spear weapon, like we have in GW1 with the paragon. That dream being crushed, i really think the dragon hunter is lacking a defined purpose with that build we played in the beta.
Something needs to be changed, the dmg output or the basic utility of the weapon skills…or perhaps theres more to it than meets the eye. We shall see when the exp launches.

Sadly i have to agree with the OP when it comes to game change. Are we going to see new metas in the game? Yes ofc. But, will the new metas scale equally with the changes coming to the game? I dont know, and im a bit afraid that zerker metas continue to dominate the game…i hope not…we shall see when the exp launches.

That being said, i really like what i have seen so far, and i hope that ANet wishes to shake the game foundation to its core and bring not only new content, but also new playstyles.

Cheers to every1 at ANet and keep up the good work guys. Remember, we love you, but we will love you even more if you guys nail this expansion.

Orpheal.8263:

For me its this way:

Chronomancer = Perfect
Berserker = Very Good, Rename the same called Gear Prefix to Barbaric/Brutal = Perfect
Reaper = Good, Rename the same called Title = Very Good
Tempest = Junk, Rename to Bender/Summoner = Good, + Mechanic Change = Very Good
Herald = Very Good, Rename Revenant to Herald and call Heralds instead Prophets = Perfect
Daredevil = Good, Rename it to Skirmisher = Very Good + Fix Acrobatics and give Skrimisher a Gameplay Changer for Steal and a 50/50 Mix of Counterattacks and Evasion = Perfect

---

Druid = Currently I’d say from the first look Good, depends on what the Pet Gameplay and Weapon Skills will be like
Forge = Currently I’d say from the first look Very Good, depends again on the Weapon Skills and the Main Mechanic Changes, but with Rename to Artificer I think I’d give it right away a Perfect

---

@ Random: Just people with no creativity would say that and die hard Dervish Fans, which still believe in it, that they will ever see them returning as an own playable Profession… if you don’t see the similarities between Dervish and Necromancer, then I must say that you are BLIND. Very blind.

1) Necromancers wield by design whenever they get to use their special mechanic a SCYTHE, the old dervishs iconic Weapon.
2) Said Necromancer Mechanic is useable to let the Class shapeshift, what was exactly the gameplay element of the Dervish
3) Dervishs used a power called Mysticism, Mysticism is nothing else, than Occultism, using supernatural unknown powers, which come from performing some occult rituals, like Sacrifice Rituals, in GW1 it was sacrificing Boons, a mechanic that fits feel for the Necromancer to sacrifice his boons that he receives to perform Mystic Powers
If Dervish does’t return as a Thief Specialization ,then is Necromancer the only most fittign alternative
5) Chill – Chilling Victory, which is actually a Skill, that returns now under the Necromancer Elite Specialization was one of the most iconic Dervish Skills in GW1 and dealt Cold Damage there, what is pretty much what woudl be Chill now for GW2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occult#Occultism
The Gameplay of the old Dervish is what under this wiki link would be called Divination – being inspired by gods…, just that it got called for GW Mysticism what can be practically the same, using rituals to get inspired by the gods what turned out for GW1 that was all about humans there to shapeshift into Divine Avatars.

But due to the gods beign a humans only thing, I can easily think of the universal racial Dervish using that ritual of mysticism not now to get inspired by Gods, but instead gettign inspired by Death, turning into the Avatar of Death, a Reaper of Grenth, making the term reaper just a lore bonded skill name instead of turning it into the Elite Profession Name, while one other term, the Dervish would return to its old nostalgia as necromancer elite specilization, just only with the difference, that he swings his scythe only when using the special mechanic of the class, while swinging in the normal form a more modern and fittign weapon with the greatsword instead.

The only thing that would Anet have to look at is adding into the gameplay of the elite spec the mechanic, that the class sacrifices somehow the boons that you receive when turning into the avatar form to become able to do something special that is better, so more boons you sacrificed at the moment of changing into the avatar form.

So you think taking a class and naming it another class that is already in the lore and also very different is creative ? As for similar, one is more condi based while the other is more boon based, polar opposites actually. I’m all for renaming it but if you can’t see the differences between the two or how using a previously created class name isn’t creative at all, than you are BLIND.

See how that works ?

Dragon Hunter: Not bad – average
Guardians don’t really like the trap idea, but I see good condi build possibilities for pvp. The bow gives them something completely new and I like it.

Berserker: Amazingly strong and overpowered
Not sure where the balance comes in when it comes to giving the lowest cooldowns and highest damage/speed/cc to the class with the most hp, mobility and armor. But it’s for exactly these reasons that the berserker looks amazing.

Herald: Really interesting
It has the utilities Tempest should have had as elite

Tempest: Terrible – a nightmare for elementalists
The overload mechanic do not work in synergy with how the class is played or with any other weapons than dagger, elite is worthless, trait lines are only defensive and offer no variety, cooldowns are super long on warhorn

Dare Devil: amazingly cool – game redefining
This new elite profession will dominate across all game modes because of its new elite skill. Seems almost unfair that they get to be the only ones to insta-finish people, specially considering the bad elite skills some classes have. I guess reaper can do it too…

Chronomancer: great
Offers new boons and conditions, new elite is really interesting. Just “works” well all around with every weapon set.

Reaper: great
Offers the class something they never had, really strong damage and conditions. New reaper shrouds is just overpowered. Not sure about the shouts.

It’s all opinion, but so far Tempest and DH seem to receive the most hate, while the rest of specialisation vary from ok to perfect depending on each person.

@ Random …

this isn’t just only all about creativity.. its also about consistancy and congruency.
Its often alot better in Games like GW2 to let a class with an already known term to reappear under a new improved design and gameplay which, like in this case shares even certain similarities or takes their powers from the same kind of origin, but just uses these powers in a different way… than to come up with idiotic high conceptual names just for the sake of having something “unique” that isn’t findable yet anywhere else in an other MMORPG..

What we see here with certain classes is nothign else, but just stupid marketing decisions from either anet or even higher above, NCSoft , or in case of the Dragonjunker..upcoming integraded Game Lore, which is why its so “high conceptual” and many of us wouldn’t understand it by Anets words and in fact alot more people understand absolutely more, than Anet believes that we do, because the consequence of renamign the Dragonjunker most likely would mean, that they would have to rewrite some eventually great parts of HoT’s story and texts of the voice acting due to these thigns beign already very deep and far in development to a point of no return, which is most liekly also the reason, why we have heard until today no word anymore of Anet in the merged dragonjunker name/design criticism thread, because any further answers of Anet would just tell us by now things, which we either already know, or easily could guess by now

To get quick back to the Dervish now and your other argument of being condi based and boon based being polar opposites, I can say only to that, that this argument is total nonsense …

Even as a condi based builded Necromancer you ARE STILL USING BOONS, either boons, that you receive self by using your own skills, or receivign them as group support from skilsl of your team mates..
If Boons would be absolute polar opposites as you say for a condi based Necromancer, then would have Condi based Necromancer Builds in their skilsl and traits absolutely no single Boon Effects and and woudl be actually imossible to receive also boons from other players..

This is clear for you, how contradictory your argument was hopefully, or ??
If not, it makes you even blinder and cherry picking for arguments for your cause, because all what you prefer to see is just only an independant Dervish that works as his own class/ elite specialization.

I instead am openminded enough to look for different options in how a Dervish could get reintegrated, and that eventually already now, not first in like 2+ years or so with the next wave of E-Spec. it is also absolutely unlikely, that we will see any ,more complete new classes.
The game is complete with its 9 Main Professions now and now with Elite Specializations back in minmd, I see this as the only way for GW2s future in how anet will add more new Skilsl/Traits to the game, but definetely not any more new complete new Professions – same as much as unlikely to happen ever, as like seeign ever the Scythe returning as an independent Weapon Type…
It will most likely always stay as just only Staff Reskin or Skill Mechanic Skin for the Necromancer, cause the Necromancer is the only class, that is connected to Death the most and thus wields as only class in his various avataric forms a Scythe. No other class in this game does that and most likely ever will be.

So it comes quite near, that with these similarities it is most likely for me personally, that if this Game will ever see a Dervish, then only as Necromancer Specialization either, because its the only class that I see in regard of sacrificing Boons as a ritual to become able to use the occult powers of mysticism, while swinging at the same time the scythe, the iconic weapon of death.

Or as Thief Elite Specialization, due to Dervish beign in the past a medium armored class, lettign them return as some kinmd of “Combat Dancers” that they should have been already better in GW1, but Anet wanted rather to have some occult Wannabe Gods instead due to alot of people from the community in the past whining for it that they want to receicie a class, that can shapeshift.
The Dervish Design wasnt at all somethign, that was solely based from Dev Concepts, but actually somethign where the Devs tried to brign something, for what the community was wishing for and the result of that was the Dervish

Bringing back the Dervish now as Necromancer Elite specialization would be better, than keeping the term Reaper, because it would show to the people, that also nostalgia and Fan Service is important for ANet, than to show us literally the “cold shoulder”.
Listen, I’m personalyl all ok with Reaper, its one of the most best Elite Specialization Designs in regard of its overall design, its just as I think Dervish would have been for the reasons of nolstalgia and fan service the much better decision, while having a name, that would be also more congruent to the general gameplay design.
The only thing that is missing for that right now is only the Boon Sacrifice Mechanism, but that could easily get patched to them later with a next Class Balance Patch that when you turn into “Mystic” Shroud, then you sacrifice your boons to receive therefore some other unique special effects that only you, the Dervish could use while being under the Mystic Shroud…

“This Necromancer elite specialization uses a scythe!”

“This GW1 profession that has absolutely nothing to do with Necromancy and which played completely differently from Necromancers, both in GW1 and the GW2 version, also used a scythe!”

“THAT MEANS IT’S GOTTA BE A DERVISH!! RIGHT?!!1!”

Orpheal, settle down. You’re never going to get ArenaNet to rename every profession, elite spec, achievement and gear prefix in the game to suit your narrow vision of How It Should Be. The Reaper is nothing whatsoever like the Dervishes of old. Calling them Dervishes would be far more confusing than the Reaper name is. Especially since Reaper isn’t actually all that confusing and makes plenty enough sense to be getting on with.

Wow, this topic took off more than I thought it would! I’d like to thank all the people bringing their constructive commentary to the subject

sits down with a bowl of popcorn

bostrees.5306:

Wow, this topic took off more than I thought it would! I’d like to thank all the people bringing their constructive commentary to the subject

sits down with a bowl of popcorn

Once some of us realized it wasn’t yet another qq-troll thread, I think that helped. :P

adds butter

Overall, I’m actually pretty happy with the way the elites are forming. Sure, Tempest feels a bit oddball, Dargonhurrdurr is a muddled mess, but I genuinely like what I’m seeing.

Hopefully, we’ll get another elite not too far away, so we can really see the new trait system and what its design space can offer.

I’m not fussed with any of them, am I saying I’m never going to try one? No. I’m sure I will, at some point. But I’m not chomping at the bit to play one.