Guild Wars 2

I still log in most days, and play a little on some of them. I’m in wait-and-see mode on HoT. I don’t need the characters slot badly enough to want to pre-pay for something I’m unsure about. Specifically, I want to know:

• How big are the 4 zones?
• Are the zones all like SW and DT, or are they more like the core zones. I’m not a fan of either SW/DT, and this is a make-or-break issue for me.
• Just how much of a role does verticality play?
• I already know enough about the Elite specs to know that half of them hold no appeal for me. I would like to hear more about the ones I might like.
• Just what do Masteries entail?
• Will Anet make changes to its LW release approach to a form that is more appealing to me? While 2 was better than 1 in terms of the story, they used story elements that I did not enjoy, like DE2. Will the LWS3 story be worth playing through?

I plan to wait until more videos appear, the wiki holds complete info on Masteries, and ANet gets around to revealing its plans for LW3.

Straylight.7529:

MyriadStars.5679:

I didn’t get the latest wow xpac, but still your approach is flawed. Among the 5 xpacs of wow, you chose one that you think has the least amount of content and compare it to the only xpac of GW2. This is hardly a fair comparison..

LMAO that’s exactly what I did.

Why is not a fair comparison? Please elaborate. Don’t just say it.

MyriadStars.5679:

You also ignored other stuff in a typical wow xpac, such as new dungeons. You also ignored the amount of work/time that Blizzard spent on closed beta testing for each xpac.

Of course I ignored the “other stuff”. You talked about the HoT maps and how much more it takes to create a continent (like dreanor) vs. the Maguuma Jungle. Of course I’m not going to mention WvW or guild halls or new classes in that context.

This is why your approach is flawed: Nobody is saying that HOT is the worst xpac in gaming history, so you should compare it to a typical xpac, instead of trying hard to find another xpac that is below the standard (this is not saying that the wow xpac is one as I haven’t bought it).

I could have also mentioned that burning crusade had a new race, but I didn’t, since I wanted to make a fair comparison and not every xpac brings a new race which is really a lot of work.

We are talking about pve content, so yeah, dungeons matter. The latest wow xpac has garrisons, so it’s not there is no “housing” content in it (if you are thinking of guild halls).

Beta testing also matters. Do you want a finished product or work in progress?

To be honest you can look up most of that stuff on the internet.

IndigoSundown.5419:

• How big are the 4 zones?

No one knows but it’s safe to assume that the other 3 maps are equal in size to Verdant Brink.

IndigoSundown.5419:

• Are the zones all like SW and DT, or are they more like the core zones. I’m not a fan of either SW/DT, and this is a make-or-break issue for me.

They are going to be more like SW/DT. Though I’d give it a chance if I were you since what we’ve seen from the beta so far Verdant Brink isn’t just a copy of SW/DT. More an evolution of it.

IndigoSundown.5419:

• Just how much of a role does verticality play?

It allows hangliding and makes the map more complex when it comes to navigation than a flat map. Also it makes you feel like you’re in a 3D jungle instead of just a flat map with very large trees.

IndigoSundown.5419:

• I already know enough about the Elite specs to know that half of them hold no appeal for me. I would like to hear more about the ones I might like.

Well…look it up. You already managed to do that apparently.

IndigoSundown.5419:

• Will Anet make changes to its LW release approach to a form that is more appealing to me? While 2 was better than 1 in terms of the story, they used story elements that I did not enjoy, like DE2. Will the LWS3 story be worth playing through?

Impossible to say without actually playing LWS3.
DE2 is bound to stay.

displacedTitan.6897:

ITT: People who do not normally play MMOs. Most MMO Xpacks are mandatory for continuing to play the game AND they are full price (40/50$).

I guess there is a downside to GW2 pulling in players that are not normal to MMOs.

Wrong. Been playing MMOs since UO and experienced enough to know what’s worthwhile for me and what isn’t. There’s always something else available and the beauty of GW2 is that you don’t have to jump on the hype train to keep playing.

Haven’t purchased yet!

Will wait for the complete content to be released and some reviews. Sadly the expansion doesn’t have one single thing I wanted;
— no new dungeons,
— no random content (trash mobs, bosses, etc).
— no player housing.
— no new playable races.
— no new weapon types.
— no new crafting levels.
— Anet said Ascended was the top level gear, they lied, now it’s Legendary!

I’ll do Halloween content then take a break.

MyriadStars.5679:

This is why your approach is flawed: Nobody is saying that HOT is the worst xpac in gaming history, so you should compare it to a typical xpac, instead of trying hard to find another xpac that is below the standard (this not say that the wow xpac is one as I haven’t bought it).

I’m not even trying hard…I simply chose the most recent x-pac of WoW. The game you brought into the discussion.

MyriadStars.5679:

I could have also mentioned that burning crusade had a new race, but I didn’t, since I wanted to make a fair comparison.

You keep mentioning Burning Crusade which is from 2007. Why do you reach so far into the past to make a point?

MyriadStars.5679:

We are talking about pve content, so yeah, dungeons matter. The latest wow xpac has garrisons, so it’s not there is no “housing” content in it (if you are thinking of guild halls).

I never said dungeons do not matter. I simply pointed out that in WoW you’re “locked” into dungeons instead of zones while in GW2 you’re locked into Zones. Wow has to come up with something to make up for the poor replayability of their zones. That something happens to be dungeons and raids. Since HoT already offers more content in their zones (certainly more than WoW’s) they maybe don’t feel the need to throw in half a dozen dungeons?

Garrisons were not very well received. In fact so badly that the next WoW-expansion won’t feature them. Whether Guild Halls are going to be better or worse remains to be seen.

MyriadStars.5679:

Beta testing also matters. Do you want a finished product or work in progress?

No MMO is ever finished. An MMO is always a work in progress.

No. Expansion is overpriced for what it is, and recent events have made it clear that Anet simply have little to no respect at all for their customer base.

• the bait-and-switch around selling discounted accounts saying they were required for expansion and then editing the FAQ afterwards to say a bae account wouldn’t be required.
• not automatically including a character slot in an expansion that is adding a new class
• near universal scathing criticism of Tempest and then not making a single substantive change
• randomly changing WVW reset time
• dismissive attitude towards gamebreaking bugs, eg: Ele Ride The Lightning, still broken after 3 years.
• dismissive and generally condascending attitude in comms

I hope the expac flops so they learn to take their customers more seriously.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I still log in most days, and play a little on some of them. I’m in wait-and-see mode on HoT. I don’t need the characters slot badly enough to want to pre-pay for something I’m unsure about. Specifically, I want to know:

• How big are the 4 zones?
• Are the zones all like SW and DT, or are they more like the core zones. I’m not a fan of either SW/DT, and this is a make-or-break issue for me.
• Just how much of a role does verticality play?
• I already know enough about the Elite specs to know that half of them hold no appeal for me. I would like to hear more about the ones I might like.
• Just what do Masteries entail?
• Will Anet make changes to its LW release approach to a form that is more appealing to me? While 2 was better than 1 in terms of the story, they used story elements that I did not enjoy, like DE2. Will the LWS3 story be worth playing through?

I plan to wait until more videos appear, the wiki holds complete info on Masteries, and ANet gets around to revealing its plans for LW3.

This is pretty much where I am right now, though I’m rather pessimistic in my expectations. The big factor for me is going to be the new pve map content. Just how much there is, and how much replay value it has. I did like DT/SW, so those maps being the next evolution of that type of content would be a good thing, in my opinion. But it needs to be an improvement on that formula, not just more of the same.

The elite specs I’m most interested in are for classes I don’t play much, so they aren’t really offering much for me. I do play my ranger a lot, and like heal/support classs, but I just don’t see it being of any use outside of raids or wvw. Overall, I think the specs are something new I would try, but most likely end up not using on the characters I play the most.

I really don’t care about raids at all, and the only reason I’d never end up doing them is if I really like one of the legendary armor sets. I’m already disliking the new legendary weapon direction because of the arm re-skins they do, though the new crafting process should be much better.

The other big things I do care about are features I get without buying HoT. I’m in a big guild that will get a hall with or without me, which I can still access without spending money. I’ll be able to play on the new wvw map (one of the things I’m looking forward to the most) and new pvp gametype.

So for me, HoT is basically 4 new pve maps, 1 new class, a couple specs I might use, and whatever story it has. I liked LS2’s story well enough, but a lot of the gameplay of it left me disappointed. There were only a few chapters (the ones they took longer than two weeks to push out) that really stood out as good content to me. So while I do look forward to the story/lore aspect of HoT/LS3, I’m not as hopeful for how enjoyable the gameplay along with it will be.

Straylight.7529:

MyriadStars.5679:

Beta testing also matters. Do you want a finished product or work in progress?

No MMO is ever finished. An MMO is always a work in progress.

There is a big difference between the ever-changing/evolving nature of MMOs and releasing a game with major features missing, incomplete, or broken.

MyriadStars.5679:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

So stupid thread…

If you don’t wanna buy GW2 HoT then don’t. If you beleave it has less content than it is worth so be it… I am pretty sure we “AnetDrones” “White Knights” “Fanbois” can say anything, they have allready made up their minds so it is no use. Just look at some recent posters who can’t even seem to count up all the content with GW2 just to make another game look better. I am LMAO at this thread but it so sad that there are so many people trying to get people to change their minds. These people who are set to not buy GW2 (Who wrote here) are what, around 10 of them?

I am going to enjoy GW2 as I have for over 3 years, I will maby see you in HoT soon.

By the same logic, posts that praise HOT are also stupid. If you like it, just buy it and play. Why making a post?

People criticize HOT because they care about GW2 and hope it will improve. The alternative is to stop caring about it at all.

Oh my… Good sir or miss… I think you missunderstood the point of my post, I may have been unclear. The post was not directed only to you it was to all of you I was saying ’Don’t like it, don’t buy it’ and I also said ’don’t try to make them change their minds becouse they have allready decided’ and with that said this post is meant for those who are not buying HoT but are still playing it. I notice alot of people trying to change peoples minds and I also see people who (atleast say) doesn’t play GW2 anymore.

Now I do understand many posts here where people rather like to wait and see than buying something they are not sure about. I respect that.
But there are posts here that are just spitting on HoT and are just making reasons to never buy it and not even concider it. Maby they are still playing GW2 but I do doubt that.

mrstealth.6701:

Straylight.7529:

MyriadStars.5679:

Beta testing also matters. Do you want a finished product or work in progress?

No MMO is ever finished. An MMO is always a work in progress.

There is a big difference between the ever-changing/evolving nature of MMOs and releasing a game with major features missing, incomplete, or broken.

Which major features are you refering to? And please don’t say raids. We know they’re coming shortly after release.

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

Straylight.7529:

MyriadStars.5679:

Beta testing also matters. Do you want a finished product or work in progress?

No MMO is ever finished. An MMO is always a work in progress.

There is a big difference between the ever-changing/evolving nature of MMOs and releasing a game with major features missing, incomplete, or broken.

Which major features are you refering to? And please don’t say raids. We know they’re coming shortly after release.

Anything that’s supposedly coming “shortly after release” can be mentioned, regardless of if you like it or not. Additionally, fractal leaderboards and legendaries, off the top of my head.

I’m really glad I’ve decided not to purchase, and I won’t be chased off by people who say that I shouldn’t be posting unless I own Heart of Thorns. I’m going to wait and see how the reviews shake out and for the price to fall before I even consider getting it. But given that the Halloween event is the first thing in a long time that’s really had me excited to play, I may not even do that.

Also, all of you who staunchly defend this xpac as being in-line with any other xpac out there… how do you know? You’ve played some beta events. Nothing I’ve heard about the beta suggested it was larger or more content-rich than any full expansion ever released.

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

Straylight.7529:

MyriadStars.5679:

Beta testing also matters. Do you want a finished product or work in progress?

No MMO is ever finished. An MMO is always a work in progress.

There is a big difference between the ever-changing/evolving nature of MMOs and releasing a game with major features missing, incomplete, or broken.

Which major features are you refering to? And please don’t say raids. We know they’re coming shortly after release.

Why exclude raids? Because it’s one of the more obvious examples? I think that should make it the best one to list.

Perhaps you don’t think so, but I see a distinct difference between ready at launch and coming soon™. If one of your main features isn’t ready on launch day, your game isn’t ready to launch.

But there are more examples, so that’s fine.

Like the rest of the raid. What was supposed to be at launch, but got delayed, was just one wing of the raid. It’s not even raids at this point. It’s just the one, and only part of it.

Then there is the squad UI. Now this could be part of the reason the first raid wing is delayed, but it is a new feature on its own. And it still has nothing to do with the fact that the raid itself isn’t even complete.

Fractal changes are not ready for launch. The leaderboard (that they said was coming 3 years ago) won’t be ingame yet, which makes some of the new fractal rewards unobtainable.

The new set of legendary weapons will (by their own time estimates) take another year to complete. This is something we were supposed to have had (in addition to other types of legendary gear) back in 2013.

I think that’s the biggest things that we know for a fact are incomplete. But given Anet’s preference for living story releases over personal story, it’s likely a safe bet to say that HoT’s story won’t be complete at launch either. They’ve not really given much indication of the amount of story content coming at launch, which is something I’d expect to be hyped if it existed.

And I’ll not be surprised if Friday reveals a few more missing or “coming soon™” features.

Guhracie.3419:

Also, all of you who staunchly defend this xpac as being in-line with any other xpac out there… how do you know? You’ve played some beta events. Nothing I’ve heard about the beta suggested it was larger or more content-rich than any full expansion ever released.

I don’t think this can be said enough. It’s why I’m still at the “wait and see” stage. None of us can know for a fact whether its worth it without knowing precisely what it comes with. We all have our own ideas what is required to make it worth it, and our own impressions of what to expect. But there are still 3 entire maps that we have absolutely no information about.

Maybe those maps are crammed full of content and have a new event or other content every 5 steps. Or maybe those maps are barren and only have 5 events between the 3 of them. Obviously very opposing extremes, but the fact is that we just don’t know what they have.

mrstealth.6701:

Why exclude raids? Because it’s one of the more obvious examples? I think that should make it the best one to list.

Because the raid IS coming. Shortly after release. Therefore you can’t put it on the “missing/incomplete/broken” list. People need time to get their masteries up and prepare accordingly. In WoW the first raid also comes weeks after release and the wings open up step by step yet no one is complaining there. It’s completely normal for an MMO to open the gates of a raid after release and not on day 1.

mrstealth.6701:

Perhaps you don’t think so, but I see a distinct difference between ready at launch and coming soon™. If one of your main features isn’t ready on launch day, your game isn’t ready at launch.

That means every WoW-expansion, the most successful MMO to date, wasn’t ready at launch. LMAO.

Fractal changes, legendaries and squad UI are features but not main features. Main features are the stuff displayed on the official HoT homepage like new maps, guild halls, WvW, etc… all ready at launch.

mrstealth.6701:

But given Anet’s preference for living story releases over personal story, it’s likely a safe bet to say that HoT’s story won’t be complete at launch either. They’ve not really given much indication of the amount of story content coming at launch, which is something I’d expect to be hyped if it existed.

The living story is a continuation of the personal story. Just because it’s going to be released afterwards doesn’t mean the story is incomplete. By that definition the story would always be incomplete.

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

Why exclude raids? Because it’s one of the more obvious examples? I think that should make it the best one to list.

Because the raid IS coming. Shortly after release. Therefore you can’t put it on the “missing/incomplete/broken” list. People need time to get their masteries up and prepare accordingly. In WoW the first raid also comes weeks after release yet no one is complaining there. It’s completely normal for an MMO to open the gates of a raid after release and not on day 1.

It’s a still feature that was hyped as a launch feature, that is not included with the game’s launch. At what point does “coming shortly after release” end? There are other game features/changes we’ve been told were “coming soon” that took months, or even years, to get into the game.

And that still doesn’t change the fact that what is being released “soon after launch™” isn’t even a complete raid. They’re touting raids (plural) as a feature, when they don’t even have a single raid done yet.

Straylight.7529:

That means every WoW-expansion, the most successful MMO to date, wasn’t ready to launch. LMAO.
Fractal changes, legendaries and squad UI are features but not main features. Main features are the stuff displayed on the official HoT homepage like new maps, guild halls, WvW, etc… all ready at launch.

I’m not sure why that is funny. Frankly, I don’t care what WoW has done or how they handled their releases. It doesn’t matter in this at all. But if they’re advertising raids as an expansion feature, then not releasing them along with said expansion, they are releasing an unfinished product. ‘Soon after’ is not ‘at launch’.

And fractals is on the list of main features, right along with raids. The squad UI is also heavily linked to the raid system. Legendaries are also a main feature listed under masteries, as they are part of that system.

mrstealth.6701:

At what point does “coming shortly after release” end?

If you’re refering to raids this might help you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM8cgQ42bMQ&feature=youtu.be&t=958

“first wing sometime after HoT ships…definitely long before the holidays”

since there aren’t many months left in 2015 you’ll be able to raid soon, just not on day 1.

mrstealth.6701:

And that still doesn’t change the fact that what is being released “soon after launch™” isn’t even a complete raid. They’re touting raids (plural) as a feature, when they don’t even have a single raid done yet.

The raid is complete. They just don’t release all the wings at once. Standard procedure when it comes to raids in MMO’s

They call it “raids” (plural) because they aim to include more of them in the future.

“Johanson describes Heart of Thorns as being the roadmap for Guild Wars 2’s future. Raids are planned as one of the core components of the expansion’s regular live updates”

source: http://www.pcgamer.com/raids-are-coming-to-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns/

whether he refers to the different wings of one raid as “raids” or truly several entire raids is unclear. If the the first raid we get shortly after launch is received well I see no reason why they wouldn’t come up with more of them in the future.

mrstealth.6701:

Frankly, I don’t care what WoW has done or how they handled their releases. It doesn’t matter in this at all. But if they’re advertising raids as an expansion feature, then not releasing them along with said expansion, they are releasing an unfinished product. ‘Soon after’ is not ‘at launch’.

But it DOES matter. It’s commonly accepted that raids don’t open up on day 1 since no one would be able to play it anyway.

Labeling HoT an unfinished product because the raid doesn’t open on day 1 is just silly. Do you want to raid on launch day?

They’ve basically given themselves till the end of the year (Christmas/New Year) to include something that their primary marketing page shows as if it’s a launch feature. Even today’s post about raids merely says “soon after launch”. And that is still no guarantee that it will actually be ingame by the time they stated. We’re already looking a list of features that didn’t make their stated release dates, and we’re expected to believe this one will be any different?

The fact remains that they will not be ingame at launch, and we have no solid date for their release. And there is nothing indicating that they are actually ready right now. If they were ready and waiting to be added, we should have a solid timeframe for that. What they have said clearly shows that they are not completed and are still being worked on.

As for using raids as a plural, this is marketing/hype about release, not what is coming later. Things that are only planned and not being worked on yet. They have planned a lot of things that never happened, or that we are still waiting for.

Straylight.7529:

But it DOES matter. It’s commonly accepted that raids don’t open up on day 1 since no one would be able to play it anyway.

Labeling HoT an unfinished product because the raid doesn’t open on day 1 is just silly. Do you want to raid on launch day?

People were playing the raid content available during the last beta. People completed the portion that was available then.

So, yes. If the raid was in the game on day one, people would be playing that content. We don’t know what level of masteries will be required (if any are even an absolute req) to finish it, but people can and would be doing that raid.

I honestly don’t know what you mean by “commonly accepted”. Maybe because that’s how WoW did it. “They did it, so it’s ok if everyone else does, too” isn’t really a good reason, it’s an attempted excuse. But this isn’t WoW, and the raid content is blocked off behind some requirement of needing special gear/attunement/magical hoopla in order to enter.

I’m labeling it unfinished because the raid and several other key features are not ready at launch.

Straylight.7529:

MyriadStars.5679:

This is why your approach is flawed: Nobody is saying that HOT is the worst xpac in gaming history, so you should compare it to a typical xpac, instead of trying hard to find another xpac that is below the standard (this not say that the wow xpac is one as I haven’t bought it).

I’m not even trying hard…I simply chose the most recent x-pac of WoW. The game you brought into the discussion.

The flaw in your approach remains even if you did not have to try hard.

Straylight.7529:

MyriadStars.5679:

I could have also mentioned that burning crusade had a new race, but I didn’t, since I wanted to make a fair comparison.

You keep mentioning Burning Crusade which is from 2007. Why do you reach so far into the past to make a point?

I said that I was NOT going to compare HOT to burning crusade, whose amount of content is above the industry standard: two new races, a new continent, flying mounts, many dungeons, eye of the storm, team arena… All this sold at $10 less than the vanilla.

What I meant is that you should compare HOT to a typical xpac. Not Burning Crusade whose content is much more than a typical xpac, or some other xpac which you claimed to be below average. Saying HOT is comparable to some not-so-good xpac is hardly a compliment.

Straylight.7529:

MyriadStars.5679:

We are talking about pve content, so yeah, dungeons matter. The latest wow xpac has garrisons, so it’s not there is no “housing” content in it (if you are thinking of guild halls).

I never said dungeons do not matter. I simply pointed out that in WoW you’re “locked” into dungeons instead of zones while in GW2 you’re locked into Zones. Wow has to come up with something to make up for the poor replayability of their zones. That something happens to be dungeons and raids. Since HoT already offers more content in their zones (certainly more than WoW’s) they maybe don’t feel the need to throw in half a dozen dungeons?

Garrisons were not very well received. In fact so badly that the next WoW-expansion won’t feature them. Whether Guild Halls are going to be better or worse remains to be seen.

Sure, if you like open-word boss events better than small-group instanced encounters, then HOT makes sense for you. However, for many others, open-word boss events become boring really fast.

Straylight.7529:

MyriadStars.5679:

Beta testing also matters. Do you want a finished product or work in progress?

No MMO is ever finished. An MMO is always a work in progress.

I am talking about the beta testing phase before release. It’s fine if you think it’s acceptable to do insufficient beta testing, but many others will disagree.

Vayne.8563:

But they didn’t nerf the silverwastes, I wonder why.

Because SW is not instanced group content competing against the new direction for such content.

MyriadStars.5679:

The flaw in your approach remains even if you did not have to try hard.

You keep mentioning that my approach is “flawed”. Comparing the most recent x-pac of WoW with the most recent x-pac of HoT is not flawed.

MyriadStars.5679:

I said that I was NOT going to compare HOT to burning crusade, whose amount of content is above the industry standard: two new races, a new continent, flying mounts, many dungeons, eye of the storm, team arena… All this sold at $10 less than the vanilla.

I can also make a list of HoT features and call is above the industry standard. What is the industry standard anyway? HoT also sells $10 less than vanilla GW2 did.

MyriadStars.5679:

What I meant is that you should compare HOT to a typical xpac. Not Burning Crusade whose content is much more than a typical xpac, or some other xpac which you claimed to be below average. Saying HOT is comparable to some not-so-good xpac is hardly a compliment.

What is a “typical” xpac? Let me guess: every xpac that offers more than HoT. Oh wow you just won the argument.

Straylight.7529:

MyriadStars.5679:

Beta testing also matters. Do you want a finished product or work in progress?

No MMO is ever finished. An MMO is always a work in progress.

I am talking about the beta testing phase before release. It’s fine if you think it’s acceptable to do insufficient beta testing, but many others will disagree.

Arenanet deemed it sufficient. Whether you or I deem it sufficient enough is completely irrelevant.

MyriadStars.5679:

The flaw in your approach remains even if you did not have to try hard.

You keep mentioning that my approach is “flawed”. Comparing the most recent x-pac of WoW with the most recent x-pac of HoT is not flawed.

MyriadStars.5679:

I said that I was NOT going to compare HOT to burning crusade, whose amount of content is above the industry standard: two new races, a new continent, flying mounts, many dungeons, eye of the storm, team arena… All this sold at $10 less than the vanilla.

I can also make a list of HoT features and call is above the industry standard. What is the industry standard anyway? HoT also sells $10 less than the vanilla GW2.

MyriadStars.5679:

What I meant is that you should compare HOT to a typical xpac. Not Burning Crusade whose content is much more than a typical xpac, or some other xpac which you claimed to be below average. Saying HOT is comparable to some not-so-good xpac is hardly a compliment.

What is a “typical” xpac? Let me guess: every xpac that offers more than HoT. Oh wow you just won the argument.

MyriadStars.5679:

Straylight.7529:

MyriadStars.5679:

Beta testing also matters. Do you want a finished product or work in progress?

No MMO is ever finished. An MMO is always a work in progress.

I am talking about the beta testing phase before release. It’s fine if you think it’s acceptable to do insufficient beta testing, but many others will disagree.

Arenanet deemed it sufficient. Whether you or I deem it sufficient enough is completely irrelevant. Also the beta testing of the original GW2 wasn’t more extensive either (I remember three to four beta weekends) and the launch was OK.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

But they didn’t nerf the silverwastes, I wonder why.

Because SW is not instanced group content competing against the new direction for such content.

Yup, they’re trying to funnel people into the raid/fractals. But this is a really bad way to do it. The new content should be attracting players with its own rewards, not by trashing the rewards on old content to make the new seem better.

It’s no better than other games making old dungeons/etc irrelevant by adding higher level content with higher level rewards. Either way, you’re making the old content not worth doing. It’s something they’ve said they didn’t want to do, but it’s already happening.

Straylight.7529:

Arenanet deemed it sufficient. Whether you or I deem it sufficient enough is completely irrelevant. Also the beta testing of the original GW2 wasn’t more extensive either (I remember three to four beta weekends) and the launch was OK.

The original beta also had more of the game available. It was mostly limited by how high level you could manage to get in the limited time. HoT’s betas have been limited to a portion of a single map.

And launch was fairly rocky, in my opinion. A lot of skillpoint NPCs were broken. You could get completely stuck at many points in the personal story. Higher level maps (which had gotten less testing) had lots of broken hearts and stuck events. The first time I got into Iron Marches, I couldn’t even get map completion without rushing to do hearts after updates reset the map.

It took a while to get the issues sorted out. But the game was mostly functional at release, at least for the content that was available at low levels.

Straylight.7529:

MyriadStars.5679:

The flaw in your approach remains even if you did not have to try hard.

You keep mentioning that my approach is “flawed”. Comparing the most recent x-pac of WoW with the most recent x-pac of HoT is not flawed.

MyriadStars.5679:

I said that I was NOT going to compare HOT to burning crusade, whose amount of content is above the industry standard: two new races, a new continent, flying mounts, many dungeons, eye of the storm, team arena… All this sold at $10 less than the vanilla.

I can also make a list of HoT features and call is above the industry standard. What is the industry standard anyway? HoT also sells $10 less than the vanilla GW2.

MyriadStars.5679:

What I meant is that you should compare HOT to a typical xpac. Not Burning Crusade whose content is much more than a typical xpac, or some other xpac which you claimed to be below average. Saying HOT is comparable to some not-so-good xpac is hardly a compliment.

What is a “typical” xpac? Let me guess: every xpac that offers more than HoT. Oh wow you just won the argument.

MyriadStars.5679:

Straylight.7529:

MyriadStars.5679:

Beta testing also matters. Do you want a finished product or work in progress?

No MMO is ever finished. An MMO is always a work in progress.

I am talking about the beta testing phase before release. It’s fine if you think it’s acceptable to do insufficient beta testing, but many others will disagree.

Arenanet deemed it sufficient. Whether you or I deem it sufficient enough is completely irrelevant. Also the beta testing of the original GW2 wasn’t more extensive either (I remember three to four beta weekends) and the launch was OK.

Of course your approach is flawed. I haven’t purchased the lastest wow xpac, so I can’t comment on the amount of content in it. However, the first 4 wow xpacs definitely have more content. Therefore, even if warlords of draenor has less content than HOT (I doubt that; from what you said, it’s mostly because you prefer open-word events to dungeons) , HOT is still ranked 5 out of the 6 xpacs that we are sampling (5 wow xpacs + 1 gw2 xpac). That doesn’t seem good, does it?

With the current USD vs Canadian dollar exchange it would be 74$ to get HOT. Not worth the price, I will wait for it to go on sale as they did frequently for the core game as I assume a pet will follow that template. Hopefully around the holidays it will be more affordable

MyriadStars.5679:

Straylight.7529:

MyriadStars.5679:

This is something that I wouldn’t agree. Each wow xpac that I bought (starting from burning crusade) had many new dungeons at launch. Having many new maps to level up your characters will make character progression less boring. You can hop to a different map to level up your character if you are bored of the current map.

The 4 HoT maps offer far more content than the 6 maps (only 5 if you play one faction) of WoW’s latest expansion. WoW’s maps offer very little replayability.

MyriadStars.5679:

The launch price of each xpac is also $10 less than the vanilla. It certainly takes more work to create a new continent than to create 4 new maps.

If you are strictly talking about creating geographic landscape (without monsters, quests, voiceacting etc…) then you can bet your kitten that it took Arenanet more time to create 4 HoT maps than the couple of flat 2D-maps WoW-expacs offer since over a decade.

MyriadStars.5679:

With 4 maps in HOT, you are locked into them and do things repeatedly to progress horizontally, which is more boring. Yes, people do go back to level 60 maps such as Dry top and silverwaste, but it’s really boring for many, so for people who think that SW grind is boring, the four new maps probably won’t be very interesting.

The 4 HoT maps offer far more content than the 6 maps of WoW’s latest expansion. WoW’s maps offer very little replayability. Also I’d rather be “locked” into actual maps with replayability instead of the couple of dungeons you’re locked in when playing WoW. Also whether horizontal progression is more or less boring than vertical progression is a matter of personal opinion. Arenanet went for horizontal progression and had great success with it.

I didn’t get the latest wow xpac, but still your approach is flawed. Among the 5 xpacs of wow, you chose one that you think has the least amount of content and compare it to the only xpac of GW2. This is hardly a fair comparison.

You also ignored other stuff in a typical wow xpac, such as new dungeons. You also ignored the amount of work/time that Blizzard spent on closed beta testing for each xpac.

But you have to compare the whole package. You’re also paying a monthly fee for WoW with relatively little updates between expansions. So your’e not really paying $60 for a WoW expansion you’re actually funding it with $60 plus a couple of hundred dollars Let’s be real. The sub fees goes into making the expansion too. They absolutely don’t need that money just to run the game.

I can’t afford it at the moment.

I will try to keep playing, but I know that after a while I’ll be playing solo and at a disadvantage without the elite specs, so I will either have to quit or at least take a long break.

Enjoy it while it lasts I guess.

Vayne.8563:

But you have to compare the whole package. You’re also paying a monthly fee for WoW with relatively little updates between expansions. So your’e not really paying $60 for a WoW expansion you’re actually funding it with $60 plus a couple of hundred dollars Let’s be real. The sub fees goes into making the expansion too. They absolutely don’t need that money just to run the game.

And GW2 has a more extensive cash shop. It is optional purchases, but most skins/cosmetics added since release have been gemstore/BL chest items instead of ingame rewards. This is to encourage spending in the gemstore to make up for not having a monthly fee. If GW2 had a monthly fee, we’d probably have seen many more armors and weapons added as ingame rewards.

Going by Anet’s own statements and NCSoft’s earnings reports, GW2’s gemstore has been making quite a bit of money. And just like WoW’s sub fees, that money has helped make this expansion. They are two very different business models, but they do serve the same purpose. The cover costs and fund further development.

Of course, there is no real way to directly compare these business models. One is an enforced “pay or you can’t play” model, while the other merely gives optional account upgrades and cosmetics. WoW also has a massive subscriber base pouring many times more sub fees per month than any other MMO has active players. Blizzard has a proverbial money tree that has always stood in a league of its own, and can’t be easily compared to any non-subscription game. Or even to other subscription games. It is simply making an obscene amount of cash.

Hisouten.1495:

Should it be because you do not believe in preordering, prefer adopting the “Wait and see” option, are not interested in HoT (yet ?) or straight up cannot afford it, is there any “Core”, or F2P players who will keep running around GW2 without the xpac ? And if yes, what will you be doing ?

I am waiting for the reviews first before I even consider buying it.

Look on the bright side, World Bosses in the old maps will have a tendency to fail now and F2P players will be screaming in say chat why the hell did we fail???

On the other hand, you will have an almost empty map for you to do your own thing without 1 gazillion players going around in a group whacking all the champs melting them before you could even get a hit in. Now you will have a chance to take on the champ solo and see how horrible your build is.

Another good thing is those entering HoT will never return because Mordy will keep them occupied with the 10 man raids and Guild Halls and such.

I’m holding off on purchasing right now just to wait and see what people think of the whole thing.
I was also wondering if anyone know what sort of updates those without HOT will see upon the release. Thanks

Vayne.8563:

MyriadStars.5679:

Straylight.7529:

MyriadStars.5679:

This is something that I wouldn’t agree. Each wow xpac that I bought (starting from burning crusade) had many new dungeons at launch. Having many new maps to level up your characters will make character progression less boring. You can hop to a different map to level up your character if you are bored of the current map.

The 4 HoT maps offer far more content than the 6 maps (only 5 if you play one faction) of WoW’s latest expansion. WoW’s maps offer very little replayability.

MyriadStars.5679:

The launch price of each xpac is also $10 less than the vanilla. It certainly takes more work to create a new continent than to create 4 new maps.

If you are strictly talking about creating geographic landscape (without monsters, quests, voiceacting etc…) then you can bet your kitten that it took Arenanet more time to create 4 HoT maps than the couple of flat 2D-maps WoW-expacs offer since over a decade.

MyriadStars.5679:

With 4 maps in HOT, you are locked into them and do things repeatedly to progress horizontally, which is more boring. Yes, people do go back to level 60 maps such as Dry top and silverwaste, but it’s really boring for many, so for people who think that SW grind is boring, the four new maps probably won’t be very interesting.

The 4 HoT maps offer far more content than the 6 maps of WoW’s latest expansion. WoW’s maps offer very little replayability. Also I’d rather be “locked” into actual maps with replayability instead of the couple of dungeons you’re locked in when playing WoW. Also whether horizontal progression is more or less boring than vertical progression is a matter of personal opinion. Arenanet went for horizontal progression and had great success with it.

I didn’t get the latest wow xpac, but still your approach is flawed. Among the 5 xpacs of wow, you chose one that you think has the least amount of content and compare it to the only xpac of GW2. This is hardly a fair comparison.

You also ignored other stuff in a typical wow xpac, such as new dungeons. You also ignored the amount of work/time that Blizzard spent on closed beta testing for each xpac.

But you have to compare the whole package. You’re also paying a monthly fee for WoW with relatively little updates between expansions. So your’e not really paying $60 for a WoW expansion you’re actually funding it with $60 plus a couple of hundred dollars Let’s be real. The sub fees goes into making the expansion too. They absolutely don’t need that money just to run the game.

You keep saying that WoW had very few updates between expansions. This is unequivocally false.

In addition to adding features, recipes, and class balance things, and in addition to the usual monthlyish and seasonal festivals they ran, they regularly added small and large group content (dungeons and raids, each with varying levels of difficulty), open world content and new quest hubs.

You might argue about how much those updates appealed to you. You might argue that you find GW2 updates to be much more fulfilling to your style of play. You might argue that you don’t care about the things WoW added/balanced/etc. But stop repeating this myth, because that’s all it is. No matter how many times you try to say it, that won’t make it true.

I came to GW2 after playing WoW for 7 years. In my opinion, GW2 is far superior to WoW in many, many ways. I don’t need to lie about WoW to express that. It has plenty of other flaws.

mrstealth.6701:

Vayne.8563:

But you have to compare the whole package. You’re also paying a monthly fee for WoW with relatively little updates between expansions. So your’e not really paying $60 for a WoW expansion you’re actually funding it with $60 plus a couple of hundred dollars Let’s be real. The sub fees goes into making the expansion too. They absolutely don’t need that money just to run the game.

And GW2 has a more extensive cash shop. It is optional purchases, but most skins/cosmetics added since release have been gemstore/BL chest items instead of ingame rewards. This is to encourage spending in the gemstore to make up for not having a monthly fee. If GW2 had a monthly fee, we’d probably have seen many more armors and weapons added as ingame rewards.

Going by Anet’s own statements and NCSoft’s earnings reports, GW2’s gemstore has been making quite a bit of money. And just like WoW’s sub fees, that money has helped make this expansion. They are two very different business models, but they do serve the same purpose. The cover costs and fund further development.

Of course, there is no real way to directly compare these business models. One is an enforced “pay or you can’t play” model, while the other merely gives optional account upgrades and cosmetics. WoW also has a massive subscriber base pouring many times more sub fees per month than any other MMO has active players. Blizzard has a proverbial money tree that has always stood in a league of its own, and can’t be easily compared to any non-subscription game. Or even to other subscription games. It is simply making an obscene amount of cash.

Guild Wars 2 has a more extensive cash shop that is, for the most part, completely optional. It’s not the same thing. EVERYONE has to pay their WoW dues every month. No one has to frequent the cash shop. Do I need another outfit? Another mini? It’s all convenience. If I don’t pay for WoW I can’t play WoW period.

So if WoW has 5 million subscribers, and each has to pay $15 a month, that means WoW has 75 million dollars a month as a budget to make an expansion. Anyone who looks at the totals made by the cash shop knows for a fact that Anet doesn’t make 75 million dollars a month.

Those WoW expansions aren’t free, and I know people who never pay a dime to the gem story. I know people who farm gold and get gem store stuff for no cash.

No way you can compare these situations. But people do try to.

Still playing – but not buying HoT. Will wait and see after the the xpac drops and 123 different patches over 6 months are released. By then I will hopefully have finished Fallout 4 (mods won’t be in that quickly) and can revisit my decision not to spend $70 Canadian on an expansion.

Well i own hot , but i DO NOT recommend it for other players.More like just waiting and see and then deciding for themself,because It sounds like everyone is more hyped for the specs , than the content itself.Also Verdankt Brink was a boring map with some borin events and i didnt felt me like i was in a jungle more like i was in a desert and if you look up on the worldmap you can see “maguuma WASTE” So … fighting modremoth in a desert ? Interesting ? …

I hope there will be MORE maps and maybe MORE spec skills coming or so and maybe for some better 3 maps.The content itself sounds so far and was in bwe kinda meeh and so repetive and some kind of “unrewarding” i think that i may will explore those maps , but probably camping on silverwaste ? because its the best map (!) So i may paid 50 € for specs … which require grinding and some raid stuff i can do every week once …. hell yeah … Also dungeons will be less rewarding and fractals more … ( more agony <.< ) Well i dont really recommend it to anyone so far and all my friends and me are more hyped for the specs and guild hall a bit , than the content from hot , which is in my opinion kind of a “fail” … and awfull … So wait ,save money and buy it once you want it

Hisouten.1495:

Should it be because you do not believe in preordering, prefer adopting the “Wait and see” option, are not interested in HoT (yet ?) or straight up cannot afford it, is there any “Core”, or F2P players who will keep running around GW2 without the xpac ? And if yes, what will you be doing ?

I’m tight on cash at the moment so I’m not going to pre order. I have one level 80 and I am level 30 as we speak on the character I am playing and in no rush. Once she reaches level 80 then I’ll probably pull the trigger if I am immersed into the world.

For now, HoT looks like very little content on very little space which has to be repeated to death to fill your masteries so you can see a bit more of the little content. With a hefty price tag on top.

I might be wrong, but for now, I am on the let’s wait and see side.

I am too old and experienced in the MMO genre to get hyped just because.

Ill buy it when it’s $25 or less, but if you just PVP now, seems kind of pointless.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has a more extensive cash shop that is, for the most part, completely optional. It’s not the same thing. EVERYONE has to pay their WoW dues every month. No one has to frequent the cash shop. Do I need another outfit? Another mini? It’s all convenience. If I don’t pay for WoW I can’t play WoW period.

So if WoW has 5 million subscribers, and each has to pay $15 a month, that means WoW has 75 million dollars a month as a budget to make an expansion. Anyone who looks at the totals made by the cash shop knows for a fact that Anet doesn’t make 75 million dollars a month.

Those WoW expansions aren’t free, and I know people who never pay a dime to the gem story. I know people who farm gold and get gem store stuff for no cash.

No way you can compare these situations. But people do try to.

That is why I said you can’t compare the two business models. But it is still unfair to bring up WoW’s subscription fees, while ignoring the fact that GW2 does have a very obvious, though not required, revenue source outside of box/digital game sales.

I’m not a WoW player, but from my brief experience with the game and what I know from friends/others do or have played it, it does seem that there is quite a bit of additions of content/rewards/etc between their expansions. While with GW2, we see a lot of the game’s cosmetics (and cosmetics are a very prominent aspect of any MMO) being locked up in the gemstore. Even though we can acquire these through gold>gem conversion, someone has to pay Anet for those gems to be available in the economy. If GW2’s gemstore is adding more than $15/month in items you want, WoW’s sub fee can start looking like a pretty good deal.

So it’s not just a difference in the amount of money coming in for the developers. As players, we get different game experiences depending on the business model the game operates under. Which is a big part of why the subscription and cash shop models are difficult to compare.

Quitting GW2 when HoT launches untill they’ve fixed coverage / nightcapping in WvW. Will buy HoT and return when/if it gets fixed.

I’m waiting it out.. I have 4 copies to buy amongst my family and just don’t think it’s worth the investment at this price. I’ll see how good it is and if the price drops later.

I will continue to wvw my vanilla toons. I’ve played this long without joining the ascended grind I’m sure I’ll still manage being one of the few vanillas in a beefed up world.

Seriously? Why would you even consider continuing to play this game if you don’t plan on getting the expansions? You know that’s where all the new stuff is going to be now. And how hard is it to scrounge up $50 for something you’ll get hundreds of hours of entertainment from? By all means, make a judgment based on your own personal circumstances, but I really don’t think it’s worth it to keep playing if you don’t plan on eventually getting this expansion, and the future ones.

Doing dailies until HoT has armor skins worth getting then I might buy it.

NikolasRobichaud.4237:

With the current USD vs Canadian dollar exchange it would be 74$ to get HOT. Not worth the price, I will wait for it to go on sale as they did frequently for the core game as I assume a pet will follow that template. Hopefully around the holidays it will be more affordable

It’s really weird. I pre-ordered from Bestbuy Canada, but it seemed that they failed to get any stock. Maybe the same reason that caused Ebgames to stop being a retailer of HOT also prevented Bestbuy Canada from fulfilling the pre-orders. Well, this gives me time to wait to see the reviews of HOT and then decide what to do, so it’s not entirely a bad thing for me.

I am going to keep playing, without HoT for the time being.
I am leaning toward the wait and see side of the issue. By “wait and see” I mean wait for a price drop or some sort of mechanism for people that bought the core game (like I did, pre-ordered Gw2 for myself and my son) and do not need to buy the core game again since it is included with HoT.
I honestly can not justify spending the same amount the core game cost and receiving a ton less. I am not in a habit of spending equal amounts of money to get less stuff, it is not fiscally responsible. I could see buying HoT if I was new to the game and had not already bought the core game.

I have to amend my post earlier. I wrote, then, that I would continue playing, but wouldn’t buy HoT. I don’t think I will continue playing. Hate the new WvW map. Hate it. Sorry, maybe I should give it more time, but, while pretty, it’s too convoluted. There are other great games out there…and Fallout 4 is about to drop.

I’m still playing with just the core game only. I actually just started a new character and have lots to do at the moment within the core game only. So yes I am still going to be playing without HoT, and I was here during the Beta and first day of GW2, also a GW1 player. I still find it to be fun even with just the core game

Thanks for that Clarification, Gail. So the Anet position is “We don’t Care”? I suspected that.

I had intended to continue playing without purchasing. I still will not be purchasing, and it looks doubtful, now, that I will follow through on still playing.

Because “reasons”.